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GoodSyntax
07-31-2013, 04:17 PM
The past couple of weeks, I have been doing some testing with various pets for quickest Elite Forest runs.

In my testing, I have used Malison, Wrathjaw, Kettle and Loki as my pets.

Interestingly enough, I have determined that Loki, in this case is the superior pet for quickest SOLO Elite Forest runs.

My best timed runs with Malison and Kettle are roughly similar, about 4:00 solo with no elixirs; however, the surprise came when, after numerous runs, my main pets were hungry, so on a whim I tried Loki. Much to my surprise, I easily completed the map in under 4:00, about 3:50 (give or take). Additional runs to confirm whether this was an anomaly (as I had though) proved that I came in consistently under 3:45....occasionally at 3:30.

Now, I was intrigued and decided to do some number crunching.

Kettle is generally my preferred pet for timed runs, mostly due to his +10% DMG bonus and speed boost.

Loki however, provides a +15% DMG bonus, along with a +20 DEX arcane ability.

Here are my base DMG stats fully equipped with my main three pets, Malison, Kettle and Loki (keep in mind, I don't own any mythic or arcane items):

Malison: 285.3
Kettle: 282.3
Loki: 273.3

Now, to calculate your potential maximum DMG given the arcane and happiness bonuses:

Malison: 285.3 - No change, arcane ability provides +15% Dodge
Kettle: 310.53 - +10% DMG from happiness bonus
Loki: 326.37 - +20 DEX from arcane ability (yields +10.5 DMG = 283.8), +15% DMG from happiness bonus

To keep the calculation simple, lets imagine that there is no armor reduction, no critical strikes, and that each hit is equal to your current DMG stat. Given this scenario, Loki provides an overall increase of 5.1% versus Kettle, and a 14.4% increase versus Malison.

Over the course of 20 successful hits, Loki provides the equivalent damage output of 21 strikes when Kettle is equipped, and nearly 23 strikes when Malison is equipped! Extrapolating this out over the course of several hundred strikes to complete the map, Loki yields an obvious and very tangible benefit.

Adding in the potential for critical strikes only magnifies this damage disparity and tilts the calculations further in favor of Loki, as the +250% Crit bonus on Aimed Shot winds up being generating DMG 12.5% higher on Loki versus Kettle and 37.5% higher versus Malison!

Now, the obvious downsides, pot consumption with Loki is noticeably higher - both because he provides no dodge bonus (as is the case with Malison), and because his non-DMG stat boost is meager.

The stat screen does not reflect percent increase in DMG bonus from pets, so most folks see a relatively low number on their stat screen with Loki and assume he is a mediocre pet. The reality is, when you run the calculations to determine actual DMG values, Loki is superior in many ways.

Obviously, this is anecdotal evidence - I haven't created a spreadsheet which records the damage inflicted when running Elite Forest with each pet, which would provide more tangible evidence. I can only go by what is probably 100+ solo runs and what I "feel" is most effective, backed up by some basic number crunching.

So, lesson of the story here is do not underestimate Loki.

Sariita
07-31-2013, 05:54 PM
I love Loki!! I always did

GoodSyntax
08-01-2013, 11:12 AM
I hate to bump my own thread, but I am curious if anyone else has had the same experience as I had with Loki versus Kettle/Malison and other "elite" pets on timed elite runs...

Zanpakuto
08-01-2013, 11:34 AM
yes, most recently have I noticed that loki is totally the underdog! I've started using him for some runs. Talon is still undoubtedly better though, but I love how loki does a mini heal.

Hinataa
08-01-2013, 11:46 AM
Nice kal, thanks for sharing<3

Drearivev
08-01-2013, 12:46 PM
Exactly how did you go from 282 damage to 310 with Kettle? My damage with Kettle is 286 at max including the 10% damage it grants.

GoodSyntax
08-01-2013, 01:57 PM
Exactly how did you go from 282 damage to 310 with Kettle? My damage with Kettle is 286 at max including the 10% damage it grants.

282.3 is my DMG stat with Kettle. Because pet DMG bonus is not reflected in your stat screen, simply take 282.3 * 1.10 (to add in the 10% DMG bonus) and you get 310.53 as your "actual" DMG.

This goes for all % DMG increase pets like Esteban, Wrathjaw, Loki and others.

Now, I am taking a leap of faith in saying that Loki's Arcane bonus of +20 DEX (which yields +10.5 DMG) is applied to your DMG stat before the happiness DMG multiplier is added. If the DMG multiplier is added first, then the "actual" DMG with the Arcane and Happiness bonus is 324.795, not 326.37, so not a huge differential, but one that does make a difference (albeit a 1% difference between calculation methods is not much for purposes of comparison between pets).

For purposes of reproduction, here is my build:

Lv31 Rogue

Attribute points: All Dex

Weapon: lv31 Bonechill Bow of Potency
Helm: lv31 Noble Mask of Will (DEX)
Armor: lv31 Noble Double of Will (DEX)
Ring: lv30 Cobalt Ring (DEX version with the higher DMG stat)
Amulet: lv31 Swirling Amulet of Potency

Below is my stat screen with absolutely nothing equipped:

36238

Alrisaia
08-01-2013, 02:15 PM
Flap Jack is a sleeper in the same way and stuns too :)

Drearivev
08-01-2013, 03:08 PM
282.3 is my DMG stat with Kettle. Because pet DMG bonus is not reflected in your stat screen, simply take 282.3 * 1.10 (to add in the 10% DMG bonus) and you get 310.53 as your "actual" DMG.

This goes for all % DMG increase pets like Esteban, Wrathjaw, Loki and others.

Now, I am taking a leap of faith in saying that Loki's Arcane bonus of +20 DEX (which yields +10.5 DMG) is applied to your DMG stat before the happiness DMG multiplier is added. If the DMG multiplier is added first, then the "actual" DMG with the Arcane and Happiness bonus is 324.795, not 326.37, so not a huge differential, but one that does make a difference (albeit a 1% difference between calculation methods is not much for purposes of comparison between pets).

For purposes of reproduction, here is my build:

Lv31 Rogue

Attribute points: All Dex

Weapon: lv31 Bonechill Bow of Potency
Helm: lv31 Noble Mask of Will (DEX)
Armor: lv31 Noble Double of Will (DEX)
Ring: lv30 Cobalt Ring (DEX version with the higher DMG stat)
Amulet: lv31 Swirling Amulet of Potency

Below is my stat screen with absolutely nothing equipped:

36238
But why *1.1?

GoodSyntax
08-01-2013, 04:31 PM
1.1 because 1 accounts for your current DMG, 0.1 for the 10% boost from Kettle.

Its the same as saying 110%, or +10%

GoodSyntax
08-01-2013, 04:33 PM
Flap Jack is a sleeper in the same way and stuns too :)

True, but Lokis +20 DEX is an important part of the formula, a part which many people overlook!

Drearivev
08-01-2013, 05:00 PM
1.1 because 1 accounts for your current DMG, 0.1 for the 10% boost from Kettle.

Its the same as saying 110%, or +10%
Ohhhh I thought it meant it just adds 10 damage.
Thanks.

Otawaazavie
08-02-2013, 08:31 PM
I even use Loki in pvp. I'm a Mage so 15% dmg happiness bonus is huge, str happiness bonus helps me survive longer and makes shield absorb more dmg. Also when his arcane is used my hp and my dmg output gets higher and let's not forget a bit of healing isn't bad, right? Also 20 dex increases party rogues' dmg output. A very good party pet overall

Uzii
08-07-2013, 07:08 AM
Glad i lvled up my Loki to 30 :)

abihakim
08-09-2013, 10:35 PM
True, but Lokis +20 DEX is an important part of the formula, a part which many people overlook!

How long it will last? The +20 dex.

GoodSyntax
08-11-2013, 09:55 AM
I believe it lasts for 8 seconds, and his arcane cools off after 15.

Keep in mind that Loki's +20 DEX arcane has an area of affect, so it can affect all party members in range, and can be successfully used in a rotation to maintain the +20 DEX through an entire run.

abihakim
08-12-2013, 10:24 AM
I believe it lasts for 8 seconds, and his arcane cools off after 15.

Keep in mind that Loki's +20 DEX arcane has an area of affect, so it can affect all party members in range, and can be successfully used in a rotation to maintain the +20 DEX through an entire run.

I will make sure to noted it.
Then it will be another alternative for ribbit rotation party

Alrisaia
08-13-2013, 03:50 PM
Loki is now in my rotation :) He'll be levelled during my grind to 36

GoodSyntax
08-26-2013, 12:15 PM
Hate to necro my own thread, but case in point on the power of Loki - the below two screenshots were me running solo with my hybrid build (because I PvP) and getting some pretty good times in Elite Forest and Elite Brackenridge. After running hundreds of Elite Forest and Elite Jarls, Loki consistently produces the best overall times due to his +15% DMG and +20 DEX Arcane.

39833

39809

Alrisaia
08-26-2013, 09:22 PM
good doggie

Soundlesskill
08-28-2013, 12:36 AM
If you want a pet with dmg that isn't shown, choose wrathjaw. 20 dmg

Jexetta
08-28-2013, 05:51 PM
If you want a pet with dmg that isn't shown, choose wrathjaw. 20 dmg

Wrathjaw :
Happiness Bonus: +20 DEX, +20 INT, +4 Health Regen, +10% Damage - Is there some additional dmg % that I'm not aware of with Wrathjaw?

Otawaazavie
09-01-2013, 10:49 AM
Noisy means wrathjaw's arcane ability which damages nearby enemies

KaKiT
06-13-2014, 05:24 AM
Now the dmg bonus is reflected in the stats, is loki definitly a good pet! it provides much more dmg the wrathjaw. Started leveling loki today =) good threat klazinaa

Froxanthar
06-13-2014, 06:31 PM
Now the dmg bonus is reflected in the stats, is loki definitly a good pet! it provides much more dmg the wrathjaw. Started leveling loki today =) good threat klazinaa

-.-'

via orange caramel app.

GoodSyntax
06-13-2014, 09:10 PM
Now the dmg bonus is reflected in the stats, is loki definitly a good pet! it provides much more dmg the wrathjaw. Started leveling loki today =) good threat klazinaa

Just be aware that Loki's +15% is cancelled if you use any form of DMG elixirs, and this buff also does not apply in PvP at all!

Crowsfoot
06-15-2014, 09:42 PM
Many season 1 pets are overlooked do to being mainstream. Similar to music in that way. It isn't "cool" if everyone uses it.

A major thing to notice is that many of the season 1 pets have incredibly strong passives that we don't see anymore (the last "passive driven" pets I remember being added were from season 2). Since we can't see passives readily, pets like Koko, Kettle, and even Hammerjaw get quickly overlooked.

Kakashis
06-16-2014, 01:23 PM
Many season 1 pets are overlooked do to being mainstream. Similar to music in that way. It isn't "cool" if everyone uses it.

A major thing to notice is that many of the season 1 pets have incredibly strong passives that we don't see anymore (the last "passive driven" pets I remember being added were from season 2). Since we can't see passives readily, pets like Koko, Kettle, and even Hammerjaw get quickly overlooked.

Not to mention the OP 8 second cool down of their arcane abilities. What are we at nowadays, 20+ seconds?

SacredKnight
06-17-2014, 02:21 AM
I am going to be honest, I think S1 pets are quite overlooked as being quite useful.
Back in my day having malison made you look like someone with full Mythic and Arcane these days....
I think these S1 pets are incredibly powerful, if it weren't for their Arcane Ability which is somewhat lacking in comparison...I would say that these here pets are quite awesome!

latortugarabid
07-01-2014, 02:14 AM
I have always known Loki was amazing for a Rogue, you should try using him in PvP also, you'd be surprised what he can accomplish.

Delivering Crits all over Arlor.

Kreasadriii
07-02-2014, 08:57 PM
I use Loki for elite maps, it good even many people didn't realize it..
And fyi, Loki also good for PvP and twinks especially rogue, why?
base stats +HP from str points, and 15% damage which is important..
AA is boost damage rogue, 20dex, so I prefer be carefull fighting rogue with Loki..

Sorry little out of context, i love this pet XD

Simetrix
07-06-2014, 11:00 PM
i prefer Flap Jack