reroll issues

[beatrixxxx]

so i have some plat and i figure not to use on locked cause small chanced at good items
i use plat on luck elixr i bought about 5 today and i stacked it with lep amulet and each kraken mine level3 i run
i either reroll for crap for i dont reroll at all in there. 2hours and 30 minutes wasted and got nothing
is this an issue to anyone else or is this just me.

[Taejo]

"My impression of the luck elixir that if you were to get an item, say a purple (epic) item, it would have a chance to re-roll and bump your item to the next level of rarity, (legendary in this case)."

You are re-rolling from one loot table to another loot table. Loot tables can contain from 1 to however many items the designer assigns to it. So, for example, if you are in the lowest loot table (with its list of items) and get a re-roll on a common, it's entirely possible that the next higher loot table (with its own list of items) also contains some commons that you have a chance at rolling to, as I understand it. Mostly, you'll get a better item but sometimes not.

Hope this helps.

Taken from a very helpful thread on this subject: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?97775-Rerolling-to-get-a-green-item-from-a-boss-(shouldn-t-happen)

Luck elixer + Leprechaun pendant allows you the 40% chance to reroll on an item that drops. Meaning, in a perfect world, 40 out of 100 drops will be rerolled for a better item. I don't think the reroll system is broken. Rather, what you're experiencing is simply bad luck.

EDIT: Also check out Defamed's thread on rerolls here: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?111050-Guide-The-Wheel-Of-LUCK!!-Luck-Rerolls-Loot-Drops-Explained!

[Y O L O]

Taken from a very helpful thread on this subject: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?97775-Rerolling-to-get-a-green-item-from-a-boss-(shouldn-t-happen)

Luck elixer + Leprechaun pendant allows you the 40% chance to reroll on an item that drops. Meaning, in a perfect world, 40 out of 100 drops will be rerolled for a better item. I don't think the reroll system is broken. Rather, what you're experiencing is simply bad luck.

EDIT: Also check out Defamed's thread on rerolls here: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?111050-Guide-The-Wheel-Of-LUCK!!-Luck-Rerolls-Loot-Drops-Explained!
Yes but in my normal runs w/parth and trix BEFORE update we got crates like every 2-3 mobs.Explain.It took me 10 minutes for one..ONE crate,10 MINUTES,jarl.

[Taejo]

Yes but in my normal runs w/parth and trix BEFORE update we got crates like every 2-3 mobs.Explain.It took me 10 minutes for one..ONE crate,10 MINUTES,jarl.

I did explain: You had bad luck. I have had days where I get 3-5 crates with a 30 minute luck elixer, and days where I get 1 crate with an hour-long combo elixer. You're rolling virtual dice - there is nothing fishy going on except bad rolls from bad luck. Why do you think all of these reroll threads are receiving zero feedback from Devs? Because there's nothing to be fixed.

[Ebezaanec]

Sigh, too many re-roll complaint threads. If you want 100% chance to re-roll, go play PL. They have an elixir for that.

[Spyce]

Luck is the issue here.

[Alfred Emmanuel Tanopo]

as if people cannot understand the meaning of percentages, Why compare with locked drop on every 2-3 mobs to a more specific 40% reroll percentage. Like what Taejo said, on a perfect world, you can have a reroll in 40 out of 100 or 4 out of 10. But that doesn't necessarily happen.

another thing. There's a reason why it is called "Luck" amulet with a "CHANCE' to reroll for a "BETTER LOOT". Not Reroll for a "Locked Crate".

[falmear]

Despite all of the explanations no one really knows how the system works. People are just guessing. And it would not surprise me to find out that there are other factors at play when determining when you re-roll what you get for or against your benefit. Everyone use to scream and repeat like the gospel that green went to blue and blue went to pink. But we found out that it doesn't work this way. And there are clear instances were despite being "random" you may have slightly better odds. So it's not a stretch to think that you also get worse odds in another scenario.

So what I am saying is people need to keep an open mind either way and not dismiss it as randomness and bad luck. Because you have not seen the code nor has STS given a sufficient explanation so no one has any idea of how it really works. So I remain skeptical.

Lastly, has no one considered they could have reduced the drop rate of crates. While they doubled your chances for hammerjaw, they could have lowered the chances of locked crates dropping?

[Venom]

Crate chances from heavily farmed maps/bosses actually do feel reduced. Jarl, KM, do not drop as much crates as they used to before. I now have a new crate farming place, hope they don't mess with it 0_o

Also, bea, this might help http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?111050-Guide-The-Wheel-Of-LUCK!!-Luck-Rerolls-Loot-Drops-Explained

[Taejo]

Despite all of the explanations no one really knows how the system works. People are just guessing. And it would not surprise me to find out that there are other factors at play when determining when you re-roll what you get for or against your benefit. Everyone use to scream and repeat like the gospel that green went to blue and blue went to pink. But we found out that it doesn't work this way. And there are clear instances were despite being "random" you may have slightly better odds. So it's not a stretch to think that you also get worse odds in another scenario.

So what I am saying is people need to keep an open mind either way and not dismiss it as randomness and bad luck. Because you have not seen the code nor has STS given a sufficient explanation so no one has any idea of how it really works. So I remain skeptical.

Lastly, has no one considered they could have reduced the drop rate of crates. While they doubled your chances for hammerjaw, they could have lowered the chances of locked crates dropping?

I don't think anyone here is trying to explain the system 100%. I offered some insight from previous posts that seem to have significance towards our discussion. Maybe my reply was misconstrued a bit. My argument is simple: there is nothing wrong with leprechaun pendant, reroll elixer or crate drop rates. This is the mainstream claim that is being made lately. However, I firmly believe it's just their luck of the draw.

Of course there's convoluted code behind each and every boss within each and every zone, varying to some degree. Most MMORPGs share this quality and the fact that loot doesn't drop all the time is what keeps it exciting. But what I can almost guarantee you is that rerolls are not circumstantial. Loot tables are a pretty straight forward concept, and yes they can add deterrents within each one to lessen the rate at which more valuable items drop. But no matter how the code is written, the same variable is at the heart of the formula: luck. You're rolling virtual die, generating a random number, to land somewhere on a loot table (a matrix of numbers) like the game of BINGO. Let's not get carried away trying to decipher the code behind it. Let's just agree that nothing is broken and its mostly random luck.


Crate chances from heavily farmed maps/bosses actually do feel reduced. Jarl, KM, do not drop as much crates as they used to before. I now have a new crate farming place, hope they don't mess with it 0_o

Yesterday, I received 1 crate from KM3 with Klaas' combo elixer + leprechaun pendant. Today from KM3, I received 9 crates and 3 random pink drops. Both solo. No special circumstances.


And there are clear instances were despite being "random" you may have slightly better odds. So it's not a stretch to think that you also get worse odds in another scenario.

I honestly can't think of any besides Shuyal Arena, where I seem to get more Noble drops in a group of 3-4 people rather than 1-2 people. Can you share any examples?

[Venom]

^ What Taejo says is correct, totally on luck. Say you are on a 50% chance of a reroll, try this: Flip a coin 10 times. Note down the number of times you get tails. Flip it 10 times again. This time the number could be same, could be none, could be more! Totally luck dependant.

[Alfred Emmanuel Tanopo]

Crate chances from heavily farmed maps/bosses actually do feel reduced. Jarl, KM, do not drop as much crates as they used to before. I now have a new crate farming place, hope they don't mess with it 0_o

Also, bea, this might help http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?111050-Guide-The-Wheel-Of-LUCK!!-Luck-Rerolls-Loot-Drops-Explained

And where is that? PM me. lol

[falmear]

I honestly can't think of any besides Shuyal Arena, where I seem to get more Noble drops in a group of 3-4 people rather than 1-2 people. Can you share any examples?

1) When there was the Nordr Boss brawl, I can tell you that you must have been getting better then 25% chance on a re-roll. Because I saw a lot more re-rolls then you would expect. And when it would reroll there was a very high chance you'd get a pink.
2) "Legendary items had a slightly too high drop rate in lower level Locked Crates of the Grand Watch. Adjusted."
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?104558-2013-07-01-Content-Update-(124465)

These are just two examples but I feel there are more but its hard to prove. What I am saying is you have some random chance of getting something but your odds are not always the same. And we can clearly see when opening locked crates at a lower level there is something going on with the odds. With regards to the original post and re-rolls, yes you have 40% chance on a re-roll but the loot table or possibly something else could decrease your chances. So when you do re-roll you get something worthless. So you can keep repeating its all luck but 40% is not always 40% to get that valuable/desirable item.

[Taejo]

1) When there was the Nordr Boss brawl, I can tell you that you must have been getting better then 25% chance on a re-roll. Because I saw a lot more re-rolls then you would expect. And when it would reroll there was a very high chance you'd get a pink.
2) "Legendary items had a slightly too high drop rate in lower level Locked Crates of the Grand Watch. Adjusted."
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?104558-2013-07-01-Content-Update-(124465)

These are just two examples but I feel there are more but its hard to prove. What I am saying is you have some random chance of getting something but your odds are not always the same. And we can clearly see when opening locked crates at a lower level there is something going on with the odds. With regards to the original post and re-rolls, yes you have 40% chance on a re-roll but the loot table or possibly something else could decrease your chances. So when you do re-roll you get something worthless. So you can keep repeating its all luck but 40% is not always 40% to get that valuable/desirable item.

Right, I forgot about the Mines of Nordia. Yes, I agree that place had a much better drop rate.

Crates and chests are an entirely different beast to ponder. I don't think their system relates to the rerolls while fighting around Arlor.

EDIT: I also want to add that I think STS games offer a very generous risk versus reward system to its fan-base. We should consider ourselves lucky that we can blaze through a L16 map in 20 seconds and farm Jarl for crates at level 31. A lot of inexperienced gamers don't take that into consideration when challenging the game's dynamics. It could be a lot worse, where the only places you can farm locked crates are in those dungeons that scale up, such as Hauntlet and the Crypts. But it's not like that - you can farm these valuable items with zero risk in trivial places around Arlor. Most MMORPGs don't offer this kind of loot system - in fact, the majority of subscription MMORPGs have their 'top shelf' loot tables null and void once a mob/boss no longer yields XP. I realize that AL doesn't quite scale up to the subscription MMORPGs, but like Alrisaia said in another thread, it's a game that fills the niche between hardcore MMORPGs and casual gaming. Unfortunately, from what I've seen, the majority of AL players are playing an MMORPG for the first time, and have very high expectations. They wouldn't last a month in games such as WoW or Lineage, where you're lucky to get one good piece of loot per day.

[famousfame]

Guys have to agree with original post, they have defo dropped crate rate in mines, I ran 2 * 60 min combos with luck maxed at 70%, only got 6 crates.

[Taejo]

Guys have to agree with original post, they have defo dropped crate rate in mines, I ran 2 * 60 min combos with luck maxed at 70%, only got 6 crates.

Just ran KM3 solo for the daily quest, Miner Problem. I ran it with only leprechaun pendant on, no elixers:

37837

Drop rates look fine to me. This actually happens to me often, by the way. Oh and ignore the time it took - I was chatting most of the run :)


EDIT: Maybe the underlying issue here is with stacking elixers rather than the drop rates in general. That I can see as a plausible reason behind you fellow forumers having "bad luck" streaks. It also reinforces falmear's argument. Perhaps investigate that rather than just the drop rates.

[Alrisaia]

So challenging... running KM3 for 3 crates and having a /t conversation at the same time. Nice mate - nice. THAT is skill.

[Alfred Emmanuel Tanopo]

No reroll? No problem!

37849

[Taejo]

No reroll? No problem!

37849

Yeah, I love when trash mobs drop one without a reroll. This is why I say maybe the issue is with Leprechaun Pendant's +luck stacking with elixers. We didn't see any issues stacking elixers during Mines of Nordia release. However, ever since the Leprechaun's introduction, we've been getting these "reroll issues" and "drop rates" complaint threads. Any Devs have input on this? The actual drop rate seems fine.

[Lojack]

"we've been getting these "reroll issues" and "drop rates" complaint threads"

Actually, since launch.

[Azepeiete]

Luck is luck, sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't.
Better luck next time

[drgrimmy]

I don't think broken in any way. Yes I suspect they may have decrease the drop rate of crates from Jarl and k3, but reroll seems to work fine. 15% reroll with the amulet is just not going to help you too much. 15% reroll rate on a epic item that drops 33% of the time (just using 33% as an example, although I think pretty close) will reroll you a legendary only every 0.15x0.33=0.0495 or approximately 5% of the time! Check out what happens when you stack elixers. This was with a plat bought 25% reroll elix, 15% reroll amulet (leprechaun), 25% reroll elix from shaz, and 25% reroll from combo elix from klauss. With 90% reroll you can see that I was rerolling on almost every drop, as expected, and getting pretty good drops from jarl:

38487
38488

The moral of this story is twofold:
1) If you really want to see a noticeable effect with reroll elixers, you really have to pay up and stack elixers. Sts is a business after all. Do you think they would really give players a significant advantage without paying for it?
2) It still is all based on luck. There is no guarantee, no matter what you do or how much you spend, and you still have to be lucky. If you keep trying luck will eventually come your way.

[Alfred Emmanuel Tanopo]

I don't think broken in any way. Yes I suspect they may have decrease the drop rate of crates from Jarl and k3, but reroll seems to work fine. 15% reroll with the amulet is just not going to help you too much. 15% reroll rate on a epic item that drops 33% of the time (just using 33% as an example, although I think pretty close) will reroll you a legendary only every 0.15x0.33=0.0495 or approximately 5% of the time! Check out what happens when you stack elixers. This was with a plat bought 25% reroll elix, 15% reroll amulet (leprechaun), 25% reroll elix from shaz, and 25% reroll from combo elix from klauss. With 90% reroll you can see that I was rerolling on almost every drop, as expected, and getting pretty good drops from jarl:

38487
38488

The moral of this story is twofold:
1) If you really want to see a noticeable effect with reroll elixers, you really have to pay up and stack elixers. Sts is a business after all. Do you think they would really give players a significant advantage without paying for it?
2) It still is all based on luck. There is no guarantee, no matter what you do or how much you spend, and you still have to be lucky. If you keep trying luck will eventually come your way.

How were you able to reroll and pick elixirs in kraag town?

[Ebezaanec]

How were you able to reroll and pick elixirs in kraag town?

Lol, he took the pics after he finished his runs.... By scrolling up in the chatbox...