Increase drop rate of crates in elite maps

[falmear]

Right now I feel the drop rate chance is the same or lower in elite maps. So because elite maps take longer to run you see much less crates dropping there. So I think you should have a better chance to get crates in elite maps because it takes longer and more pots. I think you could increase the drop rate without affecting crate economy:

1) There is already an over supply of crates so adding a better chance won't impact prices. People hold back crates for double chance weekends/new expansions.
2) Crates are very fluid and I see frequently people liquidates for crates for cheap and they are bought up very quickly.
3) People wont farm elite maps for crates exclusively because these maps are harder, only level 30+ can farm these maps and they take longer to run
4) People who want to farm crates will still continue to farm the maps they do because its faster and they get more chances.

So I think mobs and the boss could have a better chance of dropping a crate on a re-roll. And this way if you're remaining luck elixir doesn't have enough time left you wasted the remainder. This way people who run elite maps, get a better chance to recover the costs of running these maps. Right now I don't see crates dropping too often in elite maps and I think our chances should be increased.

[Alrisaia]

Personally if I get a crate from an Elite boss I'm a little miffed.

MOBs dropping them seems appropriate but I’m not interested in seeing MORE crates in this game.

However this thread is in line with what many of us have been saying about Elites with regards to the amount of gold it costs vs the amount of gold we get.

That being said – it’s possible that this balance is intentional. Hear me out:

Elite maps should be High Risk: High Reward.
Currently I feel as though they’re High Risk: Med Reward.

This won’t change unless the disparity between high end gear and trash pinks from crates changes. Bonechill is almost as good as Champions / Noble. The extra 1 or 2 point kick from the Highest Elite Pink stuff just isn’t as good as paying a couple hundred gold for trash pinks. IMO.

Other MMO games coped with risk thusly:
Harder zones (maps) were there to challenge end gamers, thus the risks were high and included but were not limited to:
Loss of XP
Loss of Gold (not just the POT consumption, you would actually LOSE gold)
Potential Loss of Items (think everquest and corpse runs)

For this reason – those Elite Maps were rarely played unless well organized guilds went after them. but it seems as though since this is a mobile game and the platform is a little different, STS WANTS everyone to be able to to play them.

I believe that crates are big problem with the economy – and I don’t believe that adding more into the game would ever help in any way. There’s enough crates already.

Perhaps if the loot tables of those mobs had Elite Copper Chests in their loot tables, that would help a bit, or if the Epic Blue items from Elite maps were better than trash pinks – even THAT would help… as it stands right now though, adding loot to the Elite Trash mobs may be a valid way to add some vitality into the Elite Running realm.

[Taejo]

Right now I feel the drop rate chance is the same or lower in elite maps. So because elite maps take longer to run you see much less crates dropping there. So I think you should have a better chance to get crates in elite maps because it takes longer and more pots. I think you could increase the drop rate without affecting crate economy:

1) There is already an over supply of crates so adding a better chance won't impact prices. People hold back crates for double chance weekends/new expansions.
2) Crates are very fluid and I see frequently people liquidates for crates for cheap and they are bought up very quickly.
3) People wont farm elite maps for crates exclusively because these maps are harder, only level 30+ can farm these maps and they take longer to run
4) People who want to farm crates will still continue to farm the maps they do because its faster and they get more chances.

So I think mobs and the boss could have a better chance of dropping a crate on a re-roll. And this way if you're remaining luck elixir doesn't have enough time left you wasted the remainder. This way people who run elite maps, get a better chance to recover the costs of running these maps. Right now I don't see crates dropping too often in elite maps and I think our chances should be increased.

Interesting suggestion. My opinion: mobs, yes, bosses, no. I am with Alrisaia 100% on this one - it is upsetting running an elite map and rerolling for a locked crate. I say to myself "Man, that's something I could have just killed Jarl for!" I'd rather get an elite chest, egg or unique pink from the boss' loot table.

I agree with the core of your suggestion, that elite maps need a boost to the revenue they dish out to players. I don't want to throw your thread off on a tangent, either. However, I will suggest that rather than crates being increased, maybe something as simple as increased gold or potion drops would remedy the problem just the same. Or maybe even add that to your original idea. Because the value of gold is what it is, and potions are the chief complaint of elite maps in general.

Either way, I appreciate your determination to help solve the elite map dilemma.

[Energizeric]

Unfortunately due to the way the economy is structured, it is not possible for you to get a better reward from elite dungeons than you already get. If they increase the drop rates, the items that get dropped will only decline in value accordingly, so basically your reward will still be of the same value. As I have posted before, the only way to increase the reward is to give more gold for elite bosses and mobs. Then you are not flooding the market will extra gear which would result in lower prices. The extra gold is the value itself.

[Alfai]

Agree with alrisia.tho i feel your request but the mechanics would mantain for now the way i see it :(

[Alrisaia]

Unfortunately due to the way the economy is structured, it is not possible for you to get a better reward from elite dungeons than you already get. If they increase the drop rates, the items that get dropped will only decline in value accordingly, so basically your reward will still be of the same value. As I have posted before, the only way to increase the reward is to give more gold for elite bosses and mobs. Then you are not flooding the market will extra gear which would result in lower prices. The extra gold is the value itself.

I really value your input Energizeric - because of what a good merchant you are and how well you know the AL economy.

Currently trash pinks saturate the market, causing high supply for those items - the fact that the elite gear is only a few stat points different makes for the trash pink gear to 'appear' as good and thus, reduce demand on the Elite Pinks.

That being said - what are your thoughts about the Elite Pink gear being tweaked a bit so that it's a leap above the trash pinks as opposed to only a step above it.

[falmear]

Unfortunately due to the way the economy is structured, it is not possible for you to get a better reward from elite dungeons than you already get. If they increase the drop rates, the items that get dropped will only decline in value accordingly, so basically your reward will still be of the same value. As I have posted before, the only way to increase the reward is to give more gold for elite bosses and mobs. Then you are not flooding the market will extra gear which would result in lower prices. The extra gold is the value itself.

1) Increasing the drop rate of crates doesn't affect anything else but crates. And crates already hardly drop in elite maps so you point about " the items that get dropped will only decline in value accordingly, so basically your reward will still be of the same value." Is totally wrong because no one farms elites for locked crates and if this is where crates only dropped, then crates would be like 100k+.
2) People mostly open crates to gamble and not for gear, if you see who is buying crates its end gamers looking for mythic or arcane items. And I really dont think they care about pinks. And already there is so many of these crate pinks in the game that its not going to matter if a few more crates drop.
3) Just watch the CS for 5 minutes and you will see a lot of crates being bought and sold, more then any other chest. Crates are a commodity. And because there is so many exchanging hands you need a major influx to drive down the price in any major way. Its like a farmer producing more bananas, its not going to have an effect on the world price of bananas.
4) People are already farming Jarl, KM3, etc non stop and this hasn't majorly affected crate prices. Crates are above 10k, and I remember when crates were like 1k.
5) You say that the arena where you get the chance to fight a boss right away, and reset the map if you don't want to fight that boss to get an easier boss didn't have any affect on elite golden warchests prices? Yet if they increase the drop rate on rerolls for crates for a few mobs in elite maps, this is "flooding the market". Sorry but you are anything but consistent. If they can do this with elite golden warchests, then they can do it with crates.
6) The people who play elite are a much smaller percentage of the player base. And the maps that they play are even smaller, so the amount of crates coming from elites will be just a drop in the bucket as compared to Jarl or KM3.
7) A new expansion will be released and all new maps with new places to drop crates. So by your own logic it seems like by doing this it will "flood the market".

So you can repeat what your usual speech is but you don't talk any specifics and your suggestion of dropping more gold ignores the inflationary effect of doing something like that. I think your view of the economy is too simplistic.

[Alfai]

1) Increasing the drop rate of crates doesn't affect anything else but crates. And crates already hardly drop in elite maps so you point about " the items that get dropped will only decline in value accordingly, so basically your reward will still be of the same value." Is totally wrong because no one farms elites for locked crates and if this is where crates only dropped, then crates would be like 100k+.
2) People mostly open crates to gamble and not for gear, if you see who is buying crates its end gamers looking for mythic or arcane items. And I really dont think they care about pinks. And already there is so many of these crate pinks in the game that its not going to matter if a few more crates drop.
3) Just watch the CS for 5 minutes and you will see a lot of crates being bought and sold, more then any other chest. Crates are a commodity. And because there is so many exchanging hands you need a major influx to drive down the price in any major way. Its like a farmer producing more bananas, its not going to have an effect on the world price of bananas.
4) People are already farming Jarl, KM3, etc non stop and this hasn't majorly affected crate prices. Crates are above 10k, and I remember when crates were like 1k.
5) You say that the arena where you get the chance to fight a boss right away, and reset the map if you don't want to fight that boss to get an easier boss didn't have any affect on elite golden warchests prices? Yet if they increase the drop rate on rerolls for crates for a few mobs in elite maps, this is "flooding the market". Sorry but you are anything but consistent. If they can do this with elite golden warchests, then they can do it with crates.
6) The people who play elite are a much smaller percentage of the player base. And the maps that they play are even smaller, so the amount of crates coming from elites will be just a drop in the bucket as compared to Jarl or KM3.
7) A new expansion will be released and all new maps with new places to drop crates. So by your own logic it seems like by doing this it will "flood the market".

So you can repeat what your usual speech is but you don't talk any specifics and your suggestion of dropping more gold ignores the inflationary effect of doing something like that. I think your view of the economy is too simplistic.

I think no one really dive into the principles of economics of have a detailed observation on the subject appreciate this energezic.most of us like me try to divert the thoughts on the fun and entertainment aspect of the game since this is where we not getting too serious.

Just my 2cents since im into economics too.nothing wrong with your inputs of the market/demand/supply forecast but consumer behaviors matters too and luck is part of the core essence of this game.this simply beats logic at times and can be unpredictable.what we have in mind are assumptions based on rationale mind not a guaranteed hypothesis if we wana call it that.

Back to the thread title i dont see it will be implemented anytime soon but its not a exaggerated request if sts cn find ways to compensate.cheers.

[Alfred Emmanuel Tanopo]

based on my personal experience when farming, I think they did increase the drop rate of crates even on normal maps. It's just that it ain't locked. :)

[Taejo]

your suggestion of dropping more gold ignores the inflationary effect of doing something like that

I think that most players who run elite maps will spend the extra gold that drops to feed their pets, buy potions, and pay for CS fees. Next expansion, feeding pets will become very expensive unless they adjust that. You both have valid arguments - hopefully something is changed rather than nothing!

[Energizeric]

That being said - what are your thoughts about the Elite Pink gear being tweaked a bit so that it's a leap above the trash pinks as opposed to only a step above it.

I don't think that will be necessary going forward. Here is why..... STS has already made an adjustment to the crates which causes crate pinks to be less common. Because you used to get a pink in every crate, the crate pinks from levels 25/26 and 30/31 already saturate the market, so even a change at this time will not change that. But in the next expansion at level 35/36, the crate pinks won't be so common anymore, and so the prices of those items will be significantly higher. That will cause the elite legendary items to have a higher price as well.

In the first 2 weeks of the Nordr expansion I paid 1.4m for a noble armor for my mage. At the time the Bonechill armor (which comes from locked crates) was around 50k. Once the Bonechill armor dropped in price to around 1-2k, the noble armor dropped all the way down to around 100-150k. So the price of the crate pinks does affect the price of the elite pinks. People will pay significantly more for a slight stat bump. But there is a limit to how much more they will pay, and that is what we are finding out. In terms of stats, I think the jump from crate pinks to elite pinks to mythic to arcane is just fine the way it is.

[Energizeric]

So you can repeat what your usual speech is but you don't talk any specifics and your suggestion of dropping more gold ignores the inflationary effect of doing something like that. I think your view of the economy is too simplistic.

Unlike supply and demand charts which are NOT linear, inflation is indeed linear. This means a 5% increase in the supply of a certain item could result in the price of that item falling 25%, but an increase in money (gold) of 5% will result in 5% inflation. That is the difference here.

If more gold were to drop from the mobs and bosses of the elite dungeons, then more players would farm those dungeons and much of that gold would get spent on gold-sinks such as potions and pet feeding. The net increase in gold would not be great, but the net increase in those farming elites may be decent which is what we are trying to do -- make the game more fun. Right now if you do a run through an elite dungeon and the boss drops a rare or epic item, you actually lose money after you paid for your potions and feeding your pet. You should at least break even if you get a lousy drop (in my opinion of course).