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View Full Version : Smashers Ruining Battle Strategies Since 2013



Shaping Sickness
08-14-2013, 12:44 PM
I'm tired of Smashers running towards which any direction they see please when I spawn them. Why can't they just run in a straight line? after all they're going to die misserably or blow the hell out of walls.

Sometimes I want to use them to destroy a nearby wall, I spawn them and they go all the way to somewhere else.

What I suggest is the following, make them run towards the enemy base in a straight line and blow the first wall they encounter or until they die.

Pretty please?

Dizzy
08-14-2013, 01:34 PM
Yes, please. I'm tired of trying to spawn them to hit a particular wall and they roll over and hit something no where near where I spawned them. Usually right under a dragon tower that takes them out. I'm having to overbuild and spam them in some cases just to make sure at least ONE goes where I want it too.

Samhayne
08-14-2013, 03:24 PM
They do have a mind of their own. One tip to using them is to make sure there is sufficient targets available for defenders to shoot before you send out your Smashers.

Practice leads toward perfection. Walk the path of the Dragon!

Rare
08-14-2013, 04:16 PM
I agree. I accually had smashers run down a wall, about 12 walls passed where I spawned them to blow up a wall that I really didn't care about.

Of course, I lost about 4 smashers trying to destroy the same wall that was right in front of me. Instead, they run down paralell to the long wall and get taken out by a lightning dragon. There is now practicing for that. If only I could record video.

Dizzy
08-14-2013, 04:25 PM
They do exactly the same thing for me. You can't practice when there's no seeming logic to how they work. Back to spamming them...

Justg
08-14-2013, 04:26 PM
You CAN practice... by Sparring!

octavos
08-14-2013, 04:30 PM
You CAN practice... by Sparring!

yup, maybe infinite times to practice (aslong as if you have the sheep of course)..instead of just 3 times a day...so we can do just that.

maybe the more times we spar in a day...the price goes up a bit to compensate...but only 3 times to practice...umm yea...

Darko
08-14-2013, 04:43 PM
That ia beneficial o defense...if I'm allowed a straight line ur defense doesn't stand a chance....its two fold

Valsacar
08-14-2013, 05:05 PM
I've posted in the bugs section already about this. It should be nearest wall in a relatively straight line. Give a 1-2 tile radius and it will go in a generally straight line and hit the first wall in that radius.

I just went through 6 trying to hit a corner wall that was right next to the spawn point, when dropped it looked like the smasher was already touching the wall. It ran down the side of their wall, for at least 5-6 tiles, and then was killed by something. Next one went the same distance, just down the other side of the wall. Not a single one actually hit the wall I wanted, the one that was right next to the spawn point.

Dizzy
08-14-2013, 06:31 PM
You CAN practice... by Sparring!

You miss my point. You can't practice something that is random. Either the Smashers go where I want them to (YAY!) or they roll merrily along a wall to get one-shot by a dragon tower no where near where I released them. If there is logic to how they move, I haven't found it (and I've been using them for nearly every battle for 2 weeks now). I'm not expecting them to move in a perfect line from the spawn point, but it seems real hit and miss (literally!) whether they even end up anywhere close to where I wanted them to go.

Ah well, as I said, spamming seems to work OK. I'm just lucky to be at a level where I can afford the cost and troop space for a bunch. But it was frustrating before I moved up to this level.

Shaping Sickness
08-14-2013, 07:11 PM
I get exactly the same behavior several of you are describing, they go out and roll parallel to a wall then die.

Yes I know I can spawn other dragons and that's what I do, I always send crushers first to draw the fire. Still crushers go in a straight line as I would expect smashers to go, and that's the real complaint, smashers just roll towards nowhere.

csb
08-14-2013, 07:47 PM
You CAN practice... by Sparring!

The game only allows a few spars per day. It's pretty hard to practice with that limitation.

glengon
08-15-2013, 10:42 AM
Lol i know how you feel. >.< Its annoying when the smashers keep going to the wrong place.
I think this has to do with its AI...Maybe someone can study it and post a guide about it lol. If we can understand the AI, we can build our bases more effectively, and make use of the AI to even "funnel" smashers and stuff.
For example(im not sure im just guessing from what i saw and know):
-Smashers like to go for corners/ joints in bases. Even deep in the base they will still target the joints between the "areas/rooms/whatever" so that one blow can give you access to 2/3 other rooms/areas/whatever.
-VERY rarely they go for single walls for some reason
-Smashers should target lower lvl walls amongst higher lvl walls
-Some times they seem to like to target higher lvl walls which are in the midst of other lower lvl walls? Maybe they only do this when they have the power(upgraded smashers i mean) to break that higher lvl wall?
-When a outer layer of walls is broken, the smasher will run through that hole and break the next layer/line of walls.
-Sometimes smashers will run around a freakin area to explode some random wall for some reason. If we figure why and how, we can make use of this. :O
-If a smasher goes in the wrong direction, the second smasher will do the same, so do not put them all in the same place, if they run in the wrong direction.
-Sometimes, when there are double layered walls, smashers wont blow both up at the same time, though theyre supposed to. (Only the outer one gets blown up)
-Normally a smasher will run up to a wall, wait for a second or so before blowing up, but sometimes they seem to just wait there for like 2-3 seconds before blowing up..If two smashers run to the same line of wall(walls they can break in one hit), one will blow up first, while the second one will not blow up yet and will run through the hole to the next wall.
Lol i just realised i wasted a lot of time typing this. These are only what i guess from my experiences lol. Hope it helps...(Some might be wrong :/)

Valsacar
08-16-2013, 04:34 AM
I've posted this before, but I'll say it again. This is how I think smashers should work.

They go in a generally straight line (maybe a 1 tile radius), they will go for the first wall they see within a 2-3 tile radius.

That's it, it is simple, I can plan for it, they can still go through holes (assuming they blow up 3-4 walls, proper placement should allow you to shoot the next through that hole). Defenses can be planned around it, offense can be planned around it.

This is how they currently work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRclMW6YqQ

chickenjoy
09-13-2013, 10:55 PM
Now players are exploiting spiral open wall bases because of poor smasher AI.

Instead of smashers moving in further they just target walls beside them. Check god arielucie and garudons bases.

This renders every smasher after the first one useless.

STS please focus on improving smasher AI.

csb
09-13-2013, 11:49 PM
Yep. All we can do is exploit the flaw to strengthen our own bases. STS is acting like there is nothing wrong with smashers, and its our fault for not using them right.

So everyone:

* Make a fort with spiral walls.
* Put lower level single wall blacks (usually wood) around the fort.

Once we all do that, then everyone will be frustrated and stop playing BD. Then, maybe STS will notice smashers need to be fixed. Until then, they are ignoring us.

arielucie
09-14-2013, 01:36 AM
Yep. All we can do is exploit the flaw to strengthen our own bases. STS is acting like there is nothing wrong with smashers, and its our fault for not using them right.

So everyone:

* Make a fort with spiral walls.
* Put lower level single wall blacks (usually wood) around the fort.

Once we all do that, then everyone will be frustrated and stop playing BD. Then, maybe STS will notice smashers need to be fixed. Until then, they are ignoring us.

But if you guys know the clue, only need 2 smasher to destroy that kind of bases, ask garudon he know how to deastroy that kind of base model with maybe 150 trops capacity,

Becouse i has been destroy by garudon twice with the same methode, and i still study about it, so if all of ppl use same design, its easy to destroy

Smasher can go to second layer, without miss, and i try in sparring mode and i follow his move, i still cant do that

Maybe garudon use magic, lol

chickenjoy
09-14-2013, 05:01 AM
Maybe garudon use magic, lol


haha!!

maybe he does use magic.

glengon
09-14-2013, 05:47 AM
Lol the trick is easy, but im not telling ;)

MysticalSoul
09-14-2013, 10:14 AM
these smashers are insanely stupid and useless sometimes and there is no amount of sparring that can fix that. Tell me, why would a smasher run to the other side of the base when theres a good wall right in front of it or continue to blow up a wall with a hole that's already 3-4 walls wide?

Gurugyee
09-14-2013, 10:56 AM
i was wondering why everyone was copying that..........i will make mine like that ,too.....so if garudon attacks ,maybe i will learn how he broke it

glengon
09-14-2013, 02:03 PM
Lol random tip: Smashers go for enc***** walls.

arielucie
09-14-2013, 02:06 PM
Lol the trick is easy, but im not telling ;)

Tell me pls

Rare
09-14-2013, 02:12 PM
Lol random tip: Smashers go for enc***** walls.

They also choose lowerlevel walls

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Garudon
09-14-2013, 06:57 PM
I'm kind of flattered that so many people are copying this actually, and wonder if it'll happen again with my next layout (muahahaha). I've actually predicted a few other things that have come about in the natural evolution of the pvp system, what troops will be used, and what will be moved away from. Arie is one of the people that has definitely been falling victim to the fact that I don't implement until I find my own strategy to defeat that method.

For those who think the AI doesn't work, it does. It follow very specific rules, just like any other program. There is no "glitch" and they do not "have a mind of their own" - they react to a set of parameters they are given by where they are spawned, what is around them, and what is present IN THE ENTIRE MAP (spoiler!)... However, there are improvements that need to be made to their AI. The spiral isn't actually their biggest weakness, it was the result of many frustrating battles where I just could NOT get them to crack a wall that was in my way.

Long story short, spend some time playing with them. Or if you're arie, join up with SoA and you'll get to bounce this stuff around with me while I develop the ideas. Our tribe chat is fun, educational, and very interesting! There are many people in our tribe who contribute to our overall strategies and strength, as long as we can keep them from listening to Darkko!!! ;)

P.S. I'm in the real SoA, not some PoS 3 man tribe who decided to name themselves the same thing *cough cough fixthatfirst*

Garudon
09-14-2013, 07:13 PM
Also, keep in mind that like in all games and technology, it's "magic" or a "glitch" until that "OH I GET IT" moment :)

chickenjoy
09-14-2013, 10:44 PM
thanks for your insight garudon. i do remember you having the first spiral base.

arielucie
09-15-2013, 01:03 AM
I'm kind of flattered that so many people are copying this actually, and wonder if it'll happen again with my next layout (muahahaha). I've actually predicted a few other things that have come about in the natural evolution of the pvp system, what troops will be used, and what will be moved away from. Arie is one of the people that has definitely been falling victim to the fact that I don't implement until I find my own strategy to defeat that method.

For those who think the AI doesn't work, it does. It follow very specific rules, just like any other program. There is no "glitch" and they do not "have a mind of their own" - they react to a set of parameters they are given by where they are spawned, what is around them, and what is present IN THE ENTIRE MAP (spoiler!)... However, there are improvements that need to be made to their AI. The spiral isn't actually their biggest weakness, it was the result of many frustrating battles where I just could NOT get them to crack a wall that was in my way.
*

Your design si the best garudon, i love to use it, but no effect for defance for me, but in my tribes member, they are so happy use ur design, i happy to hear them say "horaayy i win in defance battle" for me its no effect you and God not let me rest, always 100% destroy me,

So i decide to change design what i like, not to copy you anymore

Thank you to make pvp style more confusing, and not monoton.

Garudon
09-15-2013, 01:07 PM
It's a good design, but not the best. It is optimal for the current level of knowledge in the player base. It challenges people to think and use some strategy in how they attack instead of the same old crusher crusher smasher spitters rinse and repeat until dead. Once the logic is figured out, it will be far from optimal because, as you have seen, there is just a very specific strategy to beat it.

So... should I post my logic theory for smashers? I don't think I'll make it a how-to, but I might at least explain the logic so those who can think and follow it can understand it isn't "magic"

arielucie
09-15-2013, 02:48 PM
It's a good design, but not the best. It is optimal for the current level of knowledge in the player base. It challenges people top think and use some strategy in how they attack instead of the same old crusher crusher smasher spitters rinse and repeat until dead. Once the logic is figured out, it will be far from optimal because, as you have seen, there is just a very specific strategy to beat it.

So... should I post my logic theory for smashers? I don't think I'll make it a how-to, but I might at least explain the logic so those who can think and follow it can understand it isn't "magic"

Finally i find my own style, thanks to you, i combine your design, and i called it "jebakan tikus" /mouse trap in english, and try to attack me.., and tell me what i miss, thank you broo,

Garudon
09-15-2013, 09:58 PM
Your resources are what I'm thinking you're missing right now... *grin*

You've got the hang of it arie, but you need to add in some wall "pegs" around the base. Single wall segments that the smashers go to instead of your walls. Think about it, there are three limits on the attacker: time, troop count, and troop cost. Each peg that an attacker must destroy is going to be several seconds off the attack clock, 1-2 troop units, and up to 6000 sheep. Defense doesn't have to be about making attackers get 0%. Defense is preventing the attacker from reaching their goal before the timer runs out. It is a small shift in how you think, but the resulting tactics are far different!

arielucie
09-16-2013, 12:46 AM
Your resources are what I'm thinking you're missing right now... *grin*

You've got the hang of it arie, but you need to add in some wall "pegs" around the base. Single wall segments that the smashers go to instead of your walls. Think about it, there are three limits on the attacker: time, troop count, and troop cost. Each peg that an attacker must destroy is going to be several seconds off the attack clock, 1-2 troop units, and up to 6000 sheep. Defense doesn't have to be about making attackers get 0%. Defense is preventing the attacker from reaching their goal before the timer runs out. It is a small shift in how you think, but the resulting tactics are far different!

Thats why i scare to off, when online and see i lost 400k gold, 400k sheep, whuaa i will screaam, lol, its hard gain that much for me,

Thank you for your suggestion, i will work for my defance again, thank you bro

Now i can rest a while, i got 3million and can buy silver dragon, yeahhhh
One of hundred mission done

Hugs
Arielucie

glengon
09-16-2013, 05:49 AM
whuaa i will screaam, lol
Lol.

Darko
09-16-2013, 09:19 AM
Arie, seriously join up, we want the best of the best, we still have epic battles vs shadow dragons..our gc is very informational...learn a lot...I just like, hayzz, like to have fun with my layout. ...otherwise it would be boring.....

Garudon
09-16-2013, 10:36 AM
I just heard the screams ;)

Thanks for the resources!

drewcapu
09-16-2013, 12:30 PM
I'll preface this by saying I've played Clash for quite some time and am used to the AI used by their wall breakers.

While I do not doubt that Smashers do have their own logic by which they choose a wall to break, I will simply say that their current AI is dumb.

I am not complaining or anything like that.

I can see that various variations on long walls will cause smashers to smash an already breached wall instead of going to the second or third unbreached layer.

I can also see that there are ways to actually breach those 2nd and 3rd layers "if troops are deployed properly" in accordance with current AI.

There are also times when smashers will try to run laps around a base looking for someone to hand-off a baton.

But I digress.

Instead of worrying whether or not STS will play some of the "smasher-proof" maps in their sandbox environment to see if their smasher AI is actually logical, I choose to just go with what we have and create maps that thwart various attack methods.

arielucie
09-16-2013, 12:47 PM
Arie, seriously join up, we want the best of the best, we still have epic battles vs shadow dragons..our gc is very informational...learn a lot...I just like, hayzz, like to have fun with my layout. ...otherwise it would be boring.....

Dear my brother darkko

You want to join us?



Arielucie

Dizzy
09-16-2013, 12:49 PM
Smashers ARE dumb. But since Garu has figured out the logic to them, and I've been playing a lot with them myself, I'm torn as to whether they should be "fixed". I've gotten good at defending against them, but still working out how to use them. It's fun watching replays of Smashers rolling around and not hitting their targets (and for what it's worth, I do NOT have a spiral base), but frustrating in the heat of battle when I myself fall for the tricks. =)

And well, that's the nature of this sort of game: figure out offense and defense based on the troops' AI. I still think some troops are OP and the matching system needs work, but I really like that some troops are challenging to use but there is a way to figure it out and shape defenses. That's really kinda cool.

arielucie
09-16-2013, 12:51 PM
I just heard the screams ;)

Thanks for the resources!

Yeahh i hear you lough so hard too!!! :(

Give back my 300k shepppp!!! :(
That for upgrade lv5 spiterrr!
Lol,

I will take it back sometimes, lol,

Darko
09-16-2013, 02:13 PM
Ya shadow tried hard, I purposely fought every single one of em lol

Garudon
09-16-2013, 02:33 PM
I'm just surprised that I put the explanation on how they work on the forums but only one person had anything to say to it. With all the complaints, I would think people would dialogue about it a bit...

Rare
09-16-2013, 03:02 PM
I responded to it. Its still a flaw in the AI though. Its obvious by normal game play. Of course, there is a reason for it like you said. A logical one. But if the logic it is based on is flawed, then, inherently, it is flawed.

I also tried this during my experiment, but maybe my enclosed areas were too small (only 4 walls)

Cahaun
09-16-2013, 05:45 PM
I'm just surprised that I put the explanation on how they work on the forums but only one person had anything to say to it. With all the complaints, I would think people would dialogue about it a bit...
The views people have on what is "Flawed" and what is "Broken" seems to be jumbled up a bit.
The current design of the Smasher AI is what will be termed as "Flawed", but it isn't "Broken" as it follows, to the book, exactly to the logic given to it. To be considered "Broken" is when it doesn't follow the logic that it has been provided and instructed to follow. The Smashers, as I stated, have indeed been following a "Flawed" logic, which you helped explain, that can very much use an improvement.

Garudon
09-16-2013, 10:18 PM
Exactly Cahaun, it isn't broken, it's just not as people might expect it to be programmed. Therefore, they see it as flawed. I would deem it unexpected, because this AI might be exactly what they had in mind. It has its strengths and weaknesses, but works well if used correctly.

Jig
09-17-2013, 07:42 PM
What, I haven't had a problem O.o

glengon
09-17-2013, 09:49 PM
i have family to take care, they need who can guide him, becouse they love to play BD, if i join you, maybe thay lost hope
.
.
.
Big hugs to you

Arielucie

Lol. O.o