Dicussion on PVP game balance.

[Splurd]

Firstly, this is not a discussion of how the system will work, or how the dungeons should be or what penalties for dying/winning/losing etc.

The devs have hinted that PVP is on the way here (http://forums.toucharcade.com/showpost.php?p=1031053&postcount=8)

Just a discussion of the different classes, their tactics, and speculate how well or badly they will do at PVP. And maybe come up with suggestions.

Firstly, damage values need to be adjusted. My damage on my archer is around 80 per arrow, and if I use blast shot, I can do up to 400+ damage. Now, most characters only have 300-ish hp, give or take, and if these damage values are the same, PVP is going to be a case of "who clicks first"
But, it could be just that most monsters seem to have no armour, and I do the same damage on a zombie in forest haven as compared to damage on Frost King of LE. So probably I wont be doing 100+ damage to a bear with 100+ defence. Have to see how the armour factor carries into PVP.


Another thing I really think Melee bears will get owned. The fact that you can run and attack means that if I have a crossbow and I'm out of beckon range, I can potentially just run away from him without ever getting hit. The same applies to mages. Infact, the only thing to kill a ranged crossbow user who is running is probably another crossbow user.

Another fatal flaw in PVP is a bear vs bear fight.
I mean, I can see it now. bear A casts stomp. Sends bear B flying.
Bear B recovers from stomp's stun, and counter casts stomp. Bear A goes flying.
boing boing boing.
or if they use beckon as well, gets even bouncier. Bear A beckons, Bear B stomps. b-boing!

The award for the least exciting PVP match up is the Archer!
Archer A; casts focus, evasion and blastshot +w/e debuff skill they learnt
Archer B; casts focus, evasion and blastshot +w/e debuff skill they learnt
Archer A auto attacks Archer B
Archer B auto attacks Archer A

enjoys the show of 2 archers just standing there going pew pew pew till one of them drops dead.

[LordRaid]

Perhaps it'll be PVP in a small, enclosed area?

[Inching]

agreed with analysis ... bear clearly gets owned, no doubt but a mage on bird can be good. If the archer used bow and not xbow then the mage is in advantage i think..... just think.... the mage bufss up to the max and full on bone armor, bracer, etc... his armor is 50+ which can take a few bow hits for sure... when the mage is in range they do the freez, lighten, fire combo and heal up.. then runs away.... after 5 seconds of running he's back up full on and runs at bird again... this means the bird needs to keep popping potions to keep up and when they run out they are toast.....

my thoughts

[darrensmith016]

i say 10 v 10 in a area big enough for 5v5 lol blood bath!

[Hraefn]

agreed with analysis ... bear clearly gets owned, no doubt but a mage on bird can be good. If the archer used bow and not xbow then the mage is in advantage i think..... just think.... the mage bufss up to the max and full on bone armor, bracer, etc... his armor is 50+ which can take a few bow hits for sure... when the mage is in range they do the freez, lighten, fire combo and heal up.. then runs away.... after 5 seconds of running he's back up full on and runs at bird again... this means the bird needs to keep popping potions to keep up and when they run out they are toast.....

my thoughts

Unless, of course, the archer has Break Armor trained (which I imagine most PVP archers will do). Then the mage's armor is reduced to practically nothing. If the mage has Mana Shield up, he/she might not die immediately. However, unless there's a restriction on potions being brought into the PVP arena, I wouldn't count on a smart player running out of either health or mana potions.

Edit: I wonder if a fully trained heal will remove the Break Armor debuff. Time will tell, I suppose.

[nerdherd]

Edit: I wonder if a fully trained heal will remove the Break Armor debuff. Time will tell, I suppose.
Currently, heal with at least 3 points will remove debuffs. I'd guess that will stay the same.

[Hraefn]

Currently, heal with at least 3 points will remove debuffs. I'd guess that will stay the same.

For game balance, I would hope that to counter a fully trained Break Armor, the heal would have to be fully trained. Just my 2 cents.

[Sayishere]

im still abit optimistic about the pvp system and balancing issues. im looking forward to it but i dont think it will be balanced. we can only wait and see really

[Ta11on]

Every little equip we thought was good in PvE will end up useless me thinks. Equips, skills, and stats will all be waaay different, and I'm sure people will be respeccing quickly after realizing how different PvP is from PvE. (Just a thought)

[asommers]

Heal will remove all debuffs.

-ALS

[ziae]

just wanna share my thoughts on pvp

perhaps now the skills and stats are stable since there is only PVE, but im sure once PVP is out, like what many others would have predicted, will respec.

just abit of prediction. im banging on staying to the roots of the class meaning bear tank, bird dps, mage aoe support dps etc.

imagine 3v3 and 5v5, healers will be targetted since they r debuffers as well, but getting to them will be a feat because of warriors and birdies. now im thinking that an organized party with the knowledge of all 6 combos will be able to come out with strategy to engage together, becos as many have mention, bears can never 'reach' the range, so in the end it will boils down to the team moving as a whole with the right clicking of skills at the right time.

in that manner, birdies without thorn wall, i haven tried this skill out yet but ive seen pple use it in PVE which i think is amazing and definitely a need for PVP. probably will be something like beckon, thorn wall, and splash wateva skill dmg. then again healers can remove all debuffs,

ERM sry, can root, stun, frost be removed? ooh maybe there can be a slp skill too!

so i dun tink the pvp will be 1v1, yes it can still happen in a 3v3 and 5v5 when everyone falls except 1 from each team, then if its a melee vs range, then good luck, depends on lots of situations, the remaining mana and health where m/s and h/s comes in.

hmm til then...

[MYBOWJERKS]

look at wow, thats the advantage of being a ranger, you can do high dps while kiting, but have very low defense... warriors have high def so they can endure the damage running toward the archer....

[Azrael]

Heal will remove all debuffs.

-ALS

Good to know, but this is way too extreme.

Mages can heal every 4 seconds. If heal removes all debuffs, then debuffs are effectively useless, with the exception of break armor to an extent, as long as a Enchantress is within distance. multi-player combos are gonna hard to pull out and even harder to use effectively.

Will this include stun and root as well? I assume it will include freeze since it works in LE.

[Obliteration]

Good to know, but this is way too extreme.

Mages can heal every 4 seconds. If heal removes all debuffs, then debuffs are effectively useless, with the exception of break armor to an extent, as long as a Enchantress is within distance. multi-player combos are gonna hard to pull out and even harder to use effectively.

Will this include stun and root as well? I assume it will include freeze since it works in LE.

No it's a very good idea. Enchantresses will be the bottom of pvp... They have no other advantages. Think abroad not only your class.

[Azrael]

No it's a very good idea. Enchantresses will be the bottom of pvp... They have no other advantages. Think abroad not only your class.

Enchantress is my class, as well as warrior. I've spent the most time as a Enchantress.
Enchantress will not be the "bottom of pvp" if their heal only removes some debuffs rather than all debuffs.
I am thinking broadly, rather than recycling the same line that I used to respond to a post you made a few weeks ago. Nice memory though, although its not "think abroad" unless your intent is that I think about PL while on a study program in another country.

[Obliteration]

Enchantress is my class, as well as warrior. I've spent the most time as a Enchantress.
Enchantress will not be the "bottom of pvp" if their heal only removes some debuffs rather than all debuffs.
I am thinking broadly, rather than recycling the same line that I used to respond to a post you made a few weeks ago. Nice memory though, although its not "think abroad" unless your intent is that I think about PL while on a study program in another country.

Abroad means a wide area. And thanks for being an *** for no reason. Maybe you shouldn't take grammar so seriously it's a forum for a pocket iPhone game. And I don't believe I've ever said "think abroad" before so thanks for the false accusation.

[Guitarlon]

Will/would there be point in 1v1 arenas?!

[Azrael]

@oblivion: there was no false accusation, and I never said you said it before, I said that I made the same type of comment to you (of not only thinking about 1 class), and you responded the same way to that I did. Here is the thread:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?1870-3-reasons-i-m-losing-interest-in-the-game.
Beyond that I won't discuss non pvp stuff with you in this thread.


@guitarlon
in 1v1 the enchantress heal wouldn't removing all debuffs seems minor. You are right there. However in multiple pvp, this negates the major of combos, and waters down the team work aspect of combat.

Post from iPhone.

[Obliteration]

@oblivion: there was no false accusation, and I never said you said it before, I said that I made the same type of comment to you (of not only thinking about 1 class), and you responded the same way to that I did. Here is the thread:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?1870-3-reasons-i-m-losing-interest-in-the-game.
Beyond that I won't discuss non pvp stuff with you in this thread.


@guitarlon
in 1v1 the enchantress heal wouldn't removing all debuffs seems minor. You are right there. However in multiple pvp, this negates the major of combos, and waters down the team work aspect of combat.

Post from iPhone.

You try to correct my grammar yet can't even spell my name. It's right infront of you. Goodjob.

[King Richie]

You try to correct my grammar yet can't even spell my name. It's right infront of you. Goodjob.

Thats pretty bad ob he is kinda right like im good friends with both of you and im just sayin that az is right here im not trying to fight or anything im just sayin

Theres no reason to fight like he was just correcting a spelling mistake !

[ed anger]

since it's 3v3 or 5v5, the question is more what do you think the best team combos will be...

[Rannos]

As Azrael mentioned above, in larger matches it seems that this ability will cause some issues with Combos. This is in addition to watering down the weapon and skill selection that seems so necessary to create diversity amongst the player-classes. The ability to remove all debuffs with a single heal seems overpowering (I'm assuming this only happens at level 5?). I'm positive this is an attempt to balance classes in PvP, but I think there are better ways to approach balancing.

The first option, and most far-fetched, would be to create a separate skill that removes debuffs (Cure).

Another option would be to increase the damage done by a single target spell and increase their armor debuff. If this doesn't balance the classes, then increase the mana cost as these skills move from 1-5. Both of these spells would create a stronger Enchantress with a higher rate of survivability for themselves and their team (in PvP), which seems to be the intention. This, also, solidifies the Enchantress as a viable support class character and would give Enchantresses still some ability to solo.

[ratava]

Either way, with all the levels, different team combinations, balancing is/must have been a really tough job! Still with 3 char types it could work.

What's got me excited with PvP, is the LACK of Potions that could mean LIMITED MANNA which will be very critical as will gaining the buff power-ups located in the maps. Should make things more tactical, hopefully in addition to the spec combos in the OP.

[Xanthia]

I LOVE THAT HEALS REMOVE DEBUFFS! It allows Enchantress's to actually shine, the feeling of keeping a party alive and all debuffs off make you feel awesome! Also, it makes teams have to be more organized and also makes healers jobs much more important :)

DEV's PLEASE don't change this :)

[pbfreek]

My 2 cents:


Debuff Birds
Debuff Bears

That is all.

[Obliteration]

My 2 cents:


Debuff Birds
Debuff Bears

That is all.

Says the Enchantress.

[pbfreek]

Says the Enchantress.Says the Archer.

[Obliteration]

Says the Archer.

Hey I'm also a warrior, I just thought it was funny he thinks enchantresses are the weakest link. It depends your spec as of right now from what I've seen it's quite even.

[pbfreek]

Hey I'm also a warrior, I just thought it was funny he thinks enchantresses are the weakest link. It depends your spec as of right now from what I've seen it's quite even.Play an Enchantress. :)

I'm a true mage: 174 Int, 23 Dex, 1 Str (16 M/s = My baby). Int-based mages get crushed. Watch them closely when not surrounded by 4 Archers. Marketing scheme maybe? Make the majority of the Enchantress population that wants to PvP to pay $0.99 for respec. Spacetime, you can't get away with this!

[readtitle]

LOL, it was unbalenced back then, it only gets worse.

[dudetus]

LOL, it was unbalenced back then, it only gets worse.

Just shows how much love PvP got in this game from the very beginning.

[OverkillED]

Just shows how much love PvP got in this game from the very beginning.

+1 Totally agreed.