Why shadow piercer for bow rouges?

[Derezzzed]

I never got the concept of using shadow pierce with bows yet everyone tells me to, can someone clarify y? (currently using aimed shot, veil, nox shot, razor wind~mainly for dodge bonus) people tell me to swap out razor

[faychen]

I would keep razor shield, defensive: get rid of slow effect and dodge, offensive: slow down and bleed the mobs. Pierce is awsome for fast strike and for boss too (charged and pass through the boss), and u can dash around the map. so i give up nox. Use blades with mobs and bow with boss.

[Alfai]

My 2cents.

I am not sure what is exactly the SP/bow that you are referring too.bt SP bow wpuld work on specific situations or strategy depending on your runs objective.assuming we are talking about dmg effectiveness or maximazation for a normal elite runs then SP might not be the skill that can enhance overall dmg output with bow.for a rogue that constantly using bow,SP and its upgrades dont quite help for maximizing dmg of single attack


RB imo is good but mostly at soloing runs or pt with specific strategy.the upgrades focuses more on the rogue output alone than for a pt benefit..for pt not that its useless but the skill point is best utilized for other skills i.e trap for crowd controls and dmg impact or even passives.

And i dont pick 5skills to switch between combats as i feel its rather ineffective and waste.but i do ustand this is a no luxury for non plat spenders who cant afford respec rounds.still i feel in general elite runs on any maps should be using these 4 skills-aimed nox veil and optional trap depending on preference.the balance points are well invested on dmg prone passive skills.

[Alrisaia]

I never got the concept of using shadow pierce with bows yet everyone tells me to, can someone clarify y? (currently using aimed shot, veil, nox shot, razor wind~mainly for dodge bonus) people tell me to swap out razor

If you're bow user - SP for single target damage output - which is what this spec is indicative of.
If you prefer Razors, see my guide about the blender on how to use them effectively for offense.

[Derezzzed]

If you're bow user - SP for single target damage output - which is what this spec is indicative of.
If you prefer Razors, see my guide about the blender on how to use them effectively for offense.

Ya I do blenders ALOT lol I find them more useful, guess I'll just stick to my current build then

[GoodSyntax]

The purpose of SP with a bow build is to maximize single target damage.

Aimed + Nox + SP cool downs are perfectly synced so that as soon as the global cool down from SP is over, aimed has cooled down as well.

The triple hit combo inflicts massive damage and the DoT with Nox just adds to the total damage output.

In the span of 2 seconds, I can dish out nearly 6k+ damage if I can get aimed to crit - that is a lot of focused damage that can only be accomplished with the base DMG that bows provide.

[Alfai]

I agree with al and kal.might reword it wrong in my earlier post but imo sp and bow seems to be less practical for a general pve rogue who runs with a party in this case without specific runs objective.yes it is focused for maximizing single dmg but i feel that its more for a specific run.

[Zuzeq]

Next to Aim Shot, SP is the highest DmG dealing skill. When it's boss time it def comes in handy when dealing single target damage. I also personally use it as a last resort for the HP regen when dealing with large elite mobs, it can save your life in the event you take a hard hit that leaves you with almost nothing left. Also, I use it as a quick hit back...like when spiders/bow users knock you back in the Nord content, mobs hit you with "slow" proc, Grimer sucks you into hit, New top boss slings you all the way across the the room (lol hate that btw).

[Alrisaia]

i now swap out nox for traps and sp for rs at the boss

[Azepeiete]

Aimed shot increases crit by 10% every 5s. The cool down of aimed shot is 2s. The initial aimed shot provides 10% crit, the one 2s later provides 20%, the one 4s later gets you to 30%, and the one 6s later maintains your 20/30% up and down crit buff. Don't ever ever ever charge pierce for the point of damaging mobs. It's weak. You can, however, use it for movement.

Shadow piercer has a .75-1s cool down after use where you can't use ANY skills or attacks. If you randomly just use shadow pierce, you're going to have 20%(minimally) less crit than everyone else. This .75-1s cooldown is also bad for daggers, because you're going t be clicking your dagger attack(which won't work directly after pierce). This completely nullifies the point of daggers. Shadow pierce is best used along with aimed shot and nox in AS, Nox, SP order to combo, while maintaining crit stacking, and the other awesome buffs along with aimed shot. I believe the whole nox bolt box is absolutely ineffective, especially when paired with pierce. I can almost understand it if its just aimed and nox, but with pierce, jut combo.

[Zuzeq]

Shadow piercer has a .75-1s cool down after use where you can't use ANY skills or attacks. If you randomly just use shadow pierce, you're going to have 20%(minimally) less crit than everyone else. This .75-1s cooldown is also bad for daggers, because you're going t be clicking your dagger attack(which won't work directly after pierce). This completely nullifies the point of daggers. Shadow pierce is best used along with aimed shot and nox in AS, Nox, SP order to combo, while maintaining crit stacking, and the other awesome buffs along with aimed shot. I believe the whole nox bolt box is absolutely ineffective, especially when paired with pierce. I can almost understand it if its just aimed and nox, but with pierce, jut combo.[/QUOTE]



#lowblowalert: I prove the subject tech to be effective everyday. Perhaps you should have stated it isn't effective for me or I don't understand how it "could" be effective. I can show you real time, I think you're still on my FL.

[GoodSyntax]

I use SP in my Nox Box all the time. In my case I charge Nox, uncharged aimed, uncharged Pierce to group mobs tightly and target a mob on the fringes of the box and clear through to an alternate corner, charging Nox while I get back into kiting range. This is effective because on some maps, you don't have an open terrain, so you have to get more creative in keeping the mobs tight while kiting, but you can't allow huge swaths to reset.

Using this tactic, I can solo elite maps that I have absolutely no business soloing.

Remember, you aren't all that interested in the Nox attack critting out, you are more interested in keeping the poison damage going (at about 150 damage per tick for up to 6 mobs), which means you need a tight group of mobs which you can constantly poison. Best use of Nox Box is to draw aggro of large group, kite in a circle, feed in charged Nox and uncharged Aimed. Pump in SP damage for the ranged mobs because they keep repositioning themselves outside of your kill box. This SP burst usually gives you just enough time to cycle through your triple combo (Aimed, Nox, SP) before the mob catches up and you have to disengage and repeat. Ranged mobs being the weakest, but highest damage dealers means that it is best to take them out early and use Nox poison to kill the enemy tanks. Use of SP allows for bursty damage, which for a ranged mob usually requires just two of your three skill combos - all the while, the enemy tanks are taking poison damage and you are outside of their melee range.

It took a long time for me to develop this tactic and become a proficient killer with it, but, I must admit, early on, I had my doubts on its effectiveness. It wasn't until I really started soloing elite maps frequently that I started to realize the value of this tactic and how best to control the ranged mobs (which were my biggest issue concerning this tactic).

[Zuzeq]

I use SP in my Nox Box all the time. In my case I charge Nox, uncharged aimed, uncharged Pierce to group mobs tightly and target a mob on the fringes of the box and clear through to an alternate corner, charging Nox while I get back into kiting range. This is effective because on some maps, you don't have an open terrain, so you have to get more creative in keeping the mobs tight while kiting, but you can't allow huge swaths to reset.

Using this tactic, I can solo elite maps that I have absolutely no business soloing.

Remember, you aren't all that interested in the Nox attack critting out, you are more interested in keeping the poison damage going (at about 150 damage per tick for up to 6 mobs), which means you need a tight group of mobs which you can constantly poison. Best use of Nox Box is to draw aggro of large group, kite in a circle, feed in charged Nox and uncharged Aimed. Pump in SP damage for the ranged mobs because they keep repositioning themselves outside of your kill box. This SP burst usually gives you just enough time to cycle through your triple combo (Aimed, Nox, SP) before the mob catches up and you have to disengage and repeat. Ranged mobs being the weakest, but highest damage dealers means that it is best to take them out early and use Nox poison to kill the enemy tanks. Use of SP allows for bursty damage, which for a ranged mob usually requires just two of your three skill combos - all the while, the enemy tanks are taking poison damage and you are outside of their melee range.

It took a long time for me to develop this tactic and become a proficient killer with it, but, I must admit, early on, I had my doubts on its effectiveness. It wasn't until I really started soloing elite maps frequently that I started to realize the value of this tactic and how best to control the ranged mobs (which were my biggest issue concerning this tactic).


Finally someone understands my madness...

[Azepeiete]

#lowblowalert: I prove the subject tech to be effective everyday. Perhaps you should have stated it isn't effective for me or I don't understand how it "could" be effective. I can show you real time, I think you're still on my FL.
Every time I make a post negative toward charged nox bolt,
I read posts from you like this all the time...I really don't think I do it wrong. I engage mobs like a square, with 4 equal sides, trying to hit the center each time getting them all. My crit is never stacked, my aimed damage buffs never stacked, my aimed shot is basically nerfed using your tactics. Please show me how you produce better times than just mindlessly comboing over and over, which any monkey could do. I don't want the dot poison numbers blah blah, I want to see how this tactic can improve times.

[Zuzeq]

Every time I make a post negative toward charged nox bolt,
I read posts from you like this all the time...I really don't think I do it wrong. I engage mobs like a square, with 4 equal sides, trying to hit the center each time getting them all. My crit is never stacked, my aimed damage buffs never stacked, my aimed shot is basically nerfed using your tactics. Please show me how you produce better times than just mindlessly comboing over and over, which any monkey could do. I don't want the dot poison numbers blah blah, I want to see how this tactic can improve times.


I try to limit my forum blow ups to twice a month and I already wasted them for SEP over the weekend. I could just attempt to explain/show you while acting like a donkey and take it way overboard like I love to do from time to time, but why? Saying thats lets just agree to disagree, it's not like you of all people need a new tech to help you set times. (charging ANY skill has no place in timed runs anyway)

[Bless]

Even as a bow rogue, I wouldnt ever replace shadow pierce. Very good in pvp.

[GoodSyntax]

The Nox Box is not a strategy for fastest runs. Instead, this is a strategy used to manage what would otherwise be an overwhelming number of mobs.

As I said, because of this strategy, I am able to solo all the elites up to and including some Kraken maps with relative ease; albeit slower than if I were to go for a pure speed attack. Basically, I use this tactic when I just want to solo run an elite map without having to go through hundreds of pots. The Nox strategy is extremely pot efficient, and results in very few deaths if done correctly, so if there is nothing better to do, and I'm in the mood to do some Mali or Wrathjaw hunting, I can make a run at it solo without having to buy thousands of pots before I go in.

[FluffNStuff]

The Nox Box is not a strategy for fastest runs. Instead, this is a strategy used to manage what would otherwise be an overwhelming number of mobs.

As I said, because of this strategy, I am able to solo all the elites up to and including some Kraken maps with relative ease; albeit slower than if I were to go for a pure speed attack. Basically, I use this tactic when I just want to solo run an elite map without having to go through hundreds of pots. The Nox strategy is extremely pot efficient, and results in very few deaths if done correctly, so if there is nothing better to do, and I'm in the mood to do some Mali or Wrathjaw hunting, I can make a run at it solo without having to buy thousands of pots before I go in.

Can you solo ESS?

[GoodSyntax]

Yes, but not easily because of all the ranged attackers. I don't solo Kraken maps anymore because I burn so many pots....and usually for a green at the end of the map.

[Khylan]

I like it for trash mobs or exp grinding.
Aimed shot, charged SP (3 targets, health), AS, charged SP, usually just running back and forth through the mobs firing my bow when SP is on cooldown. If RS is up (dodge,duration) I will pop that, stand still and do the same charged SP, uncharged AS. My crit stays at 39% with this rotation and unless I am being careless I can usually pop a heal potion before going splat.

For boss mobs, charged nox, charged AS if possible with bow shots mixed in. I rarely use SP on elite boss mobs, I'm too squishy--(2500 hp/1145 mana, 1022 ac, 341 damage, Haze for pet).

[Alrisaia]

Every time I make a post negative toward charged nox bolt,
I read posts from you like this all the time...I really don't think I do it wrong. I engage mobs like a square, with 4 equal sides, trying to hit the center each time getting them all. My crit is never stacked, my aimed damage buffs never stacked, my aimed shot is basically nerfed using your tactics. Please show me how you produce better times than just mindlessly comboing over and over, which any monkey could do. I don't want the dot poison numbers blah blah, I want to see how this tactic can improve times.

not to mention that sp isn't in my time run spec at all... just saying :)

and... isn't sp what this thread is about?

sp is in my pvp and boss skill line up.