PL Balance after the Great Nerf of 2013

[Justg]

We have more on the list of things to tweak, but please play with the free respecs and give us a sense of how things are after Forgotten Items were... forgotten.

Here is what is on tap for next week:

- 3 second Invulnerability on Spawn in for PvP
- Nerfing Dodge and Crit buffs
- Leveling out skill bonuses at upper levels
- Increase Rhino charge and stun ranges
- Increase Fox evasion buff
- Fixing a couple of appearances, including 2012 rabbit ears on mage, black ice wand, sparkles on demonic wand, viking helmet and vyxnaar helmets on mages

(btw Carapace is doing most of these changes so you can thank him. Unless you hate it, then you can thank me lol)

What else do we need to do to level things out?

Thanks folks, you rock!

[billybob1]

lol.good job g fixin the pvp will keep the moanin n groanin down for awhile

[Bous]

hey justg, please check out my thread. Thanks

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114956-Forgotten-items-not-nerfed-enough-What-are-your-thoughts

[razerfingers]

Thanks! Gives me a reason to play now :) imma be making a 25 or 26 again maybe even a talon bear!

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

[dubveeborn]

Will the liquidate price on forgottens stay the same or is it a limited time only

[Justg]

Will the liquidate price on forgottens stay the same or is it a limited time only

Who knows? Better get rid of them while you can!

[Nihiliste]

Will the liquidate price on forgottens stay the same or is it a limited time only

Just liquidate them, we want to get rid of them forever.

[Hook]

[QUOTE=Justg:1255406]We have more on the list of things to tweak, but please play with the free respecs and give us a sense of how things are after Forgotten Items were... forgotten.

Here is what is on tap for next week:

- 3 second Invulnerability on Spawn in for PvP
- Nerfing Dodge and Crit buffs
- Leveling out skill bonuses at upper levels
- Increase Rhino charge and stun ranges
- Increase Fox evasion buff

Just an idea and a question..

.. is it possible to have the fox skill "armor shredder" break a mage Mana Shield like the birds armor breaker does?

And will the Fox skill "poison needles" bug, be fixed aswell?

[Hook]

Will the liquidate price on forgottens stay the same or is it a limited time only

Who knows? Better get rid of them while you can!

Or keep them as they become rarer and price increases.

[razerfingers]

Woo, making endgame more challenging? No more one shot birds :D

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

[Chopper]

Please add in game notifications of your items when they sell in CS. This would save so much time for anyone trying to sell items in the marketplace.

[Ladyviviane]

Ty for take care of PL again
M so glad to c my old friends returns . Well talking ab new cap is mayb too early but how ab just unlock further caps ... Sumthing like 100 lev ... Hope tat will let u time to create a new map ... Nine heads hydra as big boss ... Unda water map ... Tat connects with bsm underground ... :D

[Ssneakykills]

Omg sts your the best, does that mean the glitch on rhinos with the vantys for example horn sticks out through helm and the bunny ears dont fit properly?

Also could you do it so that if you buy a new face you keep all the ones you bought? So you you can pimp your character more without paying 10 plat every time

Also what do you mean by skill bonuses at upper levels?

Thanks again

[XghostzX]

This is awesome, Gary. Truly!

I walk in game for literally two minutes and have five PM's from friends saying, "Twinking PvP is saved! JustG has saved PL!"

Haha, you have no idea how much this means to the community. Let me know if you need more help working with numbers.

Thank you so much! I love the incentive to liquidate the bows!!

EDIT: Now I just hope to gradually see these changes affect end game :)

[Justg]

I am just the middle man here, Carapace, Swede, and SamHayne are behind the scenes making it happen.

We REALLY are going to need you guys to help us figure out how this is working, so play with it a bit this weekend, and then a bunch next week when the next set of changes rolls out.

Thanks, and have a GREAT weekend!

- g

[XghostzX]

I am just the middle man here, Carapace, Swede, and SamHayne are behind the scenes making it happen.

We REALLY are going to need you guys to help us figure out how this is working, so play with it a bit this weekend, and then a bunch next week when the next set of changes rolls out.

Thanks, and have a GREAT weekend!

- g

BUT these changes wouldn't have been made if you didn't acknowledge us - that's what really means alot to us.

Again, I'm always willing to help you out with any numbers you're struggling with.

Have a good weekend!

[Somemager]

JustG is it possible to fix drop rates ive been farming feast for the past 3 months and am near 5000 runs and all ive gotten is worthless purples not a single Dragon drop either i have been cursed with bad luck or drop rates a joke.

[Chickenrunnn]

Oh gowd ! Ty about the invunaribility spawn ! 3 seconds might be la bit long tho :D 2 sec enough :)

What do you mean by skills bonuses? :O


Ty very much for all you're doing :D

[Dreadnip]

Hey Just G, Thank you a lot for the great work. Its good to see STS still cares about PL.I ve got a l15 bear fighter , I rush all forgs- chunkers with sbl or talon cuz they ruined pvp. I continued that today and still l15 bears with their forg can still nuke nearly as much as before. Maybe drop its damage a bit more?

[dudetus]

Thx Gary you da bes :)

[Dreadnip]

And btw is this 3 sec invunaribility works at ctf too?

[Blastyou]

Hey, thanks for all that you guys have done and are going to do! It's awesome to see that our feedback has had a tangible impact on the game we all love. :D

One thing I want to mention (and Bous also discusses it in his thread). The plat packs for 20 rhino are extremely powerful, and now that there are no fbows around they are basically unbeatable. At other levels the rhino packs seem to be well balanced, but for some reason the 20 ones are especially strong. If you could decrease the armor on the set and the damage on the 2H hammer (in the 3-pack), those of us at 15-20 would be eternally grateful. I joined a 15 game after the update and saw 3 rhinos, a mage, and a bird all wearing exactly the same gear. :rolleyes:

Thanks for your consideration, and hopefully this gets included in one of the next few updates.

[BlueSkied]

Hey, thanks for all that you guys have done and are going to do! It's awesome to see that our feedback has had a tangible impact on the game we all love. :D

One thing I want to mention (and Bous also discusses it in his thread). The plat packs for 20 rhino are extremely powerful, and now that there are no fbows around they are basically unbeatable. At other levels the rhino packs seem to be well balanced, but for some reason the 20 ones are especially strong. If you could decrease the armor on the set and the damage on the 2H hammer (in the 3-pack), those of us at 15-20 would be eternally grateful. I joined a 15 game after the update and saw 3 rhinos, a mage, and a bird all wearing exactly the same gear. :rolleyes:

Thanks for your consideration, and hopefully this gets included in one of the next few updates.

Yeah. My 20 bird with a chunker equipped was whooped by a 20 pally. When the rhino pack becomes the new standard, what's left for poor toyman and paw birds?

[Bous]

Thanks sts for listening to your player feedback to nerf the fbows. i appreciate it. But was it enough is the question
Just a comparison of the old twink items lvl 15 and the fbows after nerf. Look at the damage comparison
Forg - twice as much damage than the snowball launcher
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b490/thebous/null_zpsdf4b316b.jpg
And sbl( was the most powerful 2h item before fbows dps wise)
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b490/thebous/null_zpsfd4a6aad.jpg
L15 chunker
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b490/thebous/null_zps6d32faeb.jpg
Best xbow before chunks, look at the damage!
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b490/thebous/null_zps891862a1.jpg
Level 35 got a ok nerf because voodoo would now be stronger than fbow.
I think a lot of people wanted fbow to be nerfed because there would be more diversity in pvp gear and items(warbird, shivering xbow mage...etc...)
Also i checked out fbow an how the damage varies per level, i just goes up a few dps per lvl so it seemed like they went to lvl 35 pvp and nerfed fbows and went down a couple dps per lvl and when it got to 10-15 items the dps is still quite a bit. Everyone's still gonna be running around with an fbow from lvl 10 to 22. Was hoping the nerf would be lower than the snowball launcher so the winterfest items wouldnt still be useless.

Also check out how op the l20 rhino pack is
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b490/thebous/null_zps720f8315.png

[Sheugokin]

Awwww.....Now I wish I have a Forgotten Bow :(. But GREAT JOB STG. You have finally listened to our grievances. Maybe I'll start thinking bout twinking on a fox? You have revitalized the entire community from lvl 50 and below.

[Bous]

Here is some pictures of the paw(i dont see a difference in damage before and after nerf) said hweens were nerfed too?
Here's the l15 paw
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b490/thebous/null_zpse688d8d2.jpg
L15 toyman
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b490/thebous/null_zpse7352397.jpg
Maybe make the paw have a few less damage so that winter items can be worth something again?

Also i think it would be good if the gruesome evidence bracer had same stats and the sniper shield so people that cant afford a gruesome evidence bracer can buy the plat pack and have an equal opportunity to pvp
And here is a picture of the gruesome evidence bracer
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b490/thebous/null_zps1a16b510.jpg
the l10 dex plat pack sniper shield
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b490/thebous/null_zpse0708999.jpg
Thanks again for the nerf!

[Aerospacegod]

Justg: so next week ...vanities? *hopeful*

[Burningdex]

LEVEL 30 IS BACK!! Everyone make a bear or mage or bird my bear can easily take down voodoos in forg :) finally takes akill again!!!

[Bous]

Justg: so next week ...vanities? *hopeful*

Please stay on topic :)

[Mothwing]

You guys rock, thanks for listening to us.

[Fusionstrike]

Is the list of upcoming fixes to address intended to be exhaustive or just a sampling? Either way, I'm interested to know the fate of the "lost daily blessing elixir" bug. That one has consistently had the most repeated reports by annoyed players in the bug forum as well as in the "fixing" thread. It sure would be nice to know that one's lined up to be squashed soon.

[Justg]

Is the list of upcoming fixes to address intended to be exhaustive or just a sampling? Either way, I'm interested to know the fate of the "lost daily blessing elixir" bug. That one has consistently had the most repeated reports by annoyed players in the bug forum as well as in the "fixing" thread. It sure would be nice to know that one's lined up to be squashed soon.

The list is our next step in a balance push. Bugs generally require code fixes, which mean a client update.

So while the bug you mentioned is near the top of a particular (tech-reliant) list, it is not scheduled to be addressed in the near future.

Right now we're going to tweak balance knobs to try and get the endgame more enjoyable. We'll keep free respecs on for awhile and ask you guys to play with the changes as they come.

[Carapace]

And btw is this 3 sec invunaribility works at ctf too?

This should be the case in all PvP zones I believe

[Nihiliste]

What about game merging? When do you think that will be fixed?

[Justg]

What about game merging? When do you think that will be fixed?

That requires code, so unknown. This thread explains the types of things we're working on right now: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?112724-Your-Top-Three-Things-that-Need-Fixin%92-in-PL

[Sheugokin]

Oh yeah game merging is a serious issue. A great way for endgamers to boost by joining lower levels. It ruins the fun of PvPing at lower levels.

Omg that means almost no (considering the 3 sec invulnerability) spawning in Arena and CTF. PERFECT!

[Blastyou]

3s invulnerability will also slow down boosters. ;)

[angeldawn]

Love you G!!! Nice seeing u in game today :)

Thanks everyone who pushed for this and worked on it!!

Looking forward to next week!!! Gonna have to clear my work schedule ;p

[Randomguy]

Now the mages

[Caiahar]

Yes!
A big thank you to every dev who helped out on this!

Me, kiwi, and razer were getting payback from those spawners and teamers today!

[Jig]

I love you g and cara and ever spacetime dev omg forg gone?? Its come!! Yes!!! My life is gone again!!!!! Lwuerthbgjlesnfgljwetkhgnfjlkg

YYYYYYYEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS I LOVE YOUUUUUUUUU GARY AND EVERYONE ELSE THAT WORKS FOR STS!

[Extreme]

Thx alot!

[Schnitzel]

We have more on the list of things to tweak, but please play with the free respecs and give us a sense of how things are after Forgotten Items were... forgotten.

Here is what is on tap for next week:

- 3 second Invulnerability on Spawn in for PvP
- Nerfing Dodge and Crit buffs
- Leveling out skill bonuses at upper levels
- Increase Rhino charge and stun ranges
- Increase Fox evasion buff
- Fixing a couple of appearances, including 2012 rabbit ears on mage, black ice wand, sparkles on demonic wand, viking helmet and vyxnaar helmets on mages

(btw Carapace is doing most of these changes so you can thank him. Unless you hate it, then you can thank me lol)

What else do we need to do to level things out?

Thanks folks, you rock!
Carapace deserves a Klondike bar
JustG, give him one :D

[Roberto077]

All I can think of is lowering endgame damage by a lot or increasing the health.

[tHelonestud]

Stud
Thanks
Spacetime

[Reunegade]

Back to PL :)

[Jig]

Um, just wanna say something, you know how mages voodoo where like the oppest and always owned poor little birds, well now since birds are back to themselves, mages are EVEN stronger then voodoo with halloween wand and shield, how is this now fair for birds? make birds some halloween items? or..

[XghostzX]

Um, just wanna say something, you know how mages voodoo where like the oppest and always owned poor little birds, well now since birds are back to themselves, mages are EVEN stronger then voodoo with halloween wand and shield, how is this now fair for birds? make birds some halloween items? or..

It's a work in progress, Jig. The first step was actually acknowledging birds Op-ness, and now the balancing can continue on from their.

It's all a process.

[Caiahar]

I sense a wave of warbirds and greenicewarbirds coming!

[Trenton]

I sense a wave of warbirds and greenicewarbirds coming! YES

[Roberto077]

I believe there is a good reason that Gary's initials are GG.

[Jig]

It's a work in progress, Jig. The first step was actually acknowledging birds Op-ness, and now the balancing can continue on from their.

It's all a process.

My brains not thinking >.<

[Snow49]

Hello could someone tell me why they are nerfing dodge an crit? whats the problem?

[CrimsonTider]

Well...

Ole' Crim had approximately 300+ Forgotten items in his possession. Kids, can we say "Cha-Ching!" ;)

BTW... I saved a few for the "collector's" down the road.

[Bootdaddy]

wow awesome :), don't forget the more then 1 rabid bite glitch :)

[Deathofan]

Well...

Ole' Crim had approximately 300+ Forgotten items in his possession. Kids, can we say "Cha-Ching!" ;)

BTW... I saved a few for the "collector's" down the road.
Let me guess that's +30m of liquidation lol. I sold around 60 fblades and staffs i didn't use, most of them +L61, and ended up with 8m. Gotta thank G and the other devs for finally getting rid of Forgottens.

[Kixxler]

Thanks G, I really appreciate you guys nerfing the forg and halloween items. But i do think you haven't nerfed the stats quite enough.
Imo, in level 10-26 pvp the damage of paws, chunkers, and forg bows still distinctly outweigh the damage of talons, wands, and etc. I think you need to nerf the damage a little more? Especially halloween items, because there was only a 10 dmg change.

Another issue is the warrior/rhino pack items. The rhino hammer in the rhino 3-pack is extremely overpowered and the armor of the rhino and warrior 4 packs will be quite invincible in lower level pvp.

Just a few suggestions.

[Jig]

BUT, what if people decide to not liquidate their forg items... hm? then it's pointless. unless down the track in a month or so you'll remove them and you lost your chance of an easy sell 180k :3

[angeldawn]

BUT, what if people decide to not liquidate their forg items... hm? then it's pointless. unless down the track in a month or so you'll remove them and you lost your chance of an easy sell 180k :3

Most are useless. The Damage had been lowered so much. So I'm not sure how its pointless

[Retribution]

Forgotten bows still OP at low lvl pvp. Nerf again pls.

[LadyAnee]

Can u make sure the face matches the skin please...

[Retribution]

The rhino pack are OP too pls nerf it.

[Oneandonly]

I am very happy to see changes in PvP, but there are still a few things that need to be fixed.
***The Forgotten weapons are still Over-Powered especially in low level PvP. The damage was reduced by 20, but its still pretty high especially with buff (rage). The pumpkin chunkers are also Over-Powered. I don't think any of the Halloween weapons were nerfed at all. They still have the same stats.***
I know you (STS Team) are doing the best you can. I just hope these things can be resolved. Take your time, I know its not easy to balance things out since there are so many requests. Thank you again! You are all doing a good job!

[Naetheanimal]

If they nerf packs they will nerf low lvl rhinos, btw so many people will quite pl if they nerf bear or rhino pack becouse they paid real money for them, sts cant nerf plat packs, if they do, rhino will be out from pvp from l10-40. Please dont nerf them, im a rhino player and when im not using it i die really fast (onli 400hp) thanks G

[Bous]

If they nerf packs they will nerf low lvl rhinos, btw so many people will quite pl if they nerf bear or rhino pack becouse they paid real money for them, sts cant nerf plat packs, if they do, rhino will be out from pvp from l10-40. Please dont nerf them, im a rhino player and when im not using it i die really fast (onli 400hp) thanks G

Rhinos are impossible to kill at lvl 20 with all their armor. People will quit because of a Nerf in a rhino pack? People farmed forg bows with elixirs they bought with plat and they were still nerfed. Who quit? Sts does what the community needs, not on a single persons wants. Since so many people are complaining how the l20 rhino pack is over-powered there is obviously a problem.

[Faliziaga]

Pls make the fiery int endgame set as it was at first release before armor -20 was nerfed.

[Naetheanimal]

L20 pvpers, dex mages, hammer birds and talon bears can kill me(l.20 rhino). The onli reason u guys cant kill me is lvl . Btw i spended real money on this packs, if they nerf them i want my platinum back. If they nerf them they must make new gears for rhinos becouse there are not good gold gear for us.

[Jig]

Most are useless. The Damage had been lowered so much. So I'm not sure how its pointless

Oh yeah keep forgetting about that... need to check out low lvl though

@Retribution: is it really still op low lvl? 35 seems good now what about under 30?

[Mage till the end]

Please add in game notifications of your items when they sell in CS. This would save so much time for anyone trying to sell items in the marketplace.

but this need to be able to be toggeled on and off for those of use who have 50 action slots.

[Argyros]

Oh my...

[Extreme]

Can I ask, Gary? Who made this idea to make us all liquidate fbows? Pls say to him/her I thank him/her so much.. Really, its a really good idea to keep fbow in their price and making them gone 1 by 1.. Really neat idea. Hope to see what updates come next, tbh I'm feeling something really big is coming, well I hope it is. I also have one more question, 3 Invul in Pvp only or also in CTF? Again, Thanks for the great movement, Really good start to balancing pvp.

~Extreme

[XghostzX]

Well...

Ole' Crim had approximately 300+ Forgotten items in his possession. Kids, can we say "Cha-Ching!" ;)

BTW... I saved a few for the "collector's" down the road.

Dahaha, 30+ mill? :D I think ole' ghosty here made 300k!

[Extreme]

Dahaha, 30+ mill? :D I think ole' ghosty here made 300k!

I wonder if you didn't start that thread. Woah I couldn't imagine this wouldn't even happen, Thanks Will!

Your bro,
Chris.

[Caiahar]

I made almost 500k!!

[Justg]

Can I ask, Gary? Who made this idea to make us all liquidate fbows? Pls say to him/her I thank him/her so much.. Really, its a really good idea to keep fbow in their price and making them gone 1 by 1.. Really neat idea.

SamHayne had the great idea to set a high liquidation value on the equipment.

[Faliziaga]

That idea has made a decisive contribution to the nerf's success. Thank you!

[Doodlebeast]

Oh noes I spent 50k on fbows :(

[Rot]

Many thanks for listening to us! :)

[Blastyou]

L20 pvpers, dex mages, hammer birds and talon bears can kill me(l.20 rhino). The onli reason u guys cant kill me is lvl .

> Dex mages could only kill rhinos by using fbow.
> Most of us are requesting a nerf on the hammer, so "hammer birds" would not be around either.
> I am a level 20 talon bear and I cannot hit hard enough to get through plat pack armor + health regen + rhino heal. I do about 5 damage on auto with both players buffed. Other bears are welcome to try, but I suspect you'll have the same results.

You've had your fun running around 15 games killing everything, I think it's time to drop the stats a bit.

[Roberto077]

SamHayne had the great idea to set a high liquidation value on the equipment.

Virtual hug for Sam then.

[Lovingly]

thank for everything youve done for us gary, pvp is sosososo much more enjoyable!!.
...So whats next for this halloween;)
any thought of low level set bonuses?

+ shame i dont have any forg to sell haha...

[CrimsonTider]

Dahaha, 30+ mill? :D I think ole' ghosty here made 300k!

A little over 33 mil. ;) Sad thing is, I sold about 200 others a few months back and most were between 56-71. Wish I had held them a little longer.

[Multibird]

I'm so proud of myself for not owning any fbows. I don't play with trash :D

[CrimsonTider]

I'm so proud of myself for not owning any fbows. I don't play with trash :D

You do realize people use them for more than PvP. Leveling and farming are also aspects to the game.

[Roberto077]

You do realize people use them for more than PvP. Leveling and farming are also aspects to the game.

Plus things that liquidate for more gold than they're worth can't be trash.

[Zeus]

Awesome! I made about 7M off of those (even after selling off half my collection about 2 months ago). I kept a few for collectors later on as well. :D

[Justg]

So anyhoo, back to the balance...

Forgottens feel about right? What did we miss?

[Schnitzel]

So anyhoo, back to the balance...

Forgottens feel about right? What did we miss?
Make sure no spawning in spawn room?
Limit amount of trade between two people in 1minute? (Seriously trade spams are annoying. And though I don't get spammed much, still annoying at times)

[NotYoCookiez]

I heard people say forg was still good in pvp levels 10-25 or something like that. In level 30 pvp forgotten items are long gone. I can finally use the regular campaign items. Also they haloweens werent balance like most said in other threads...

I gotta question, since a fox, rhino buff and endgame skills nerf are coming do we get another free respec?

[tHelonestud]

So anyhoo, back to the balance...

Forgottens feel about right? What did we miss?
I believe the forgotten bows below 25 are still a bit strong
Also the halloween items weren't nerfed at all it would appear

[Jig]

Well, I'm thinking low lvls under 25 im hearing a lot forg and halloween still strong, ill have to check later about halloween items at 35 but yeah, hope to see how it is

[Roberto077]

So anyhoo, back to the balance...

Forgottens feel about right? What did we miss?

The 2012 Halloween items (mainly the weapons) still have really high damage. Forgotten bows are still the next best option for killing in levels 10-25 due to high damage.

[Extreme]

SamHayne had the great idea to set a high liquidation value on the equipment.
Applause, Great job Sam!

[ThePvpTwink]

The 2012 chunkers and reapers are still op damage wise. The paw is not as bad, only a little damage higher.

[Ks_Leon]

good update...should just nerf damage on fb in PvP only...but who care? :)

[Lovingly]

chunker in the l30's are still slightly op 170-180+ dmg, reaper, bone cage dodges kinda crazy, paw are not so bad.

[Doodlebeast]

If everyone has around 2-3 FBs , try would earn 1mil+ .. Then they'll buy good sets.. Oh god I'm so doomed in PVP..

[Naetheanimal]

Lvl10-30 fbows need a better nerf, they still soo op, -25dmg could be ok. Ty sam and G

[angeldawn]

I agree low lvl Forgottens are still slightly high. If my memory is correct, a good example is lvl 10 doom bow is 14 dam and lvl 10 forgotten bow is 37 damage

[BlueSkied]

I wonder if the Paws and Blades will see any nerfing, as I don't want to drop golds on them if so.

[Stevenmc]

Low level Fbows are still a little OP, but nothing compared to before. Now a level 15 pro talon bear can beat anyone who picks up a 15 Fbow and isn't very good at pvp yet!

[Caiahar]

2012 paws, bracers, reapers, and chunkers werent nerfed.
Please nerf them like you did to the Forgotten :)

[Multibird]

You do realize people use them for more than PvP. Leveling and farming are also aspects to the game.

Playing can be anything

[Crashy]

We have more on the list of things to tweak, but please play with the free respecs and give us a sense of how things are after Forgotten Items were... forgotten.

Here is what is on tap for next week:

- 3 second Invulnerability on Spawn in for PvP
- Nerfing Dodge and Crit buffs
- Leveling out skill bonuses at upper levels
- Increase Rhino charge and stun ranges
- Increase Fox evasion buff
- Fixing a couple of appearances, including 2012 rabbit ears on mage, black ice wand, sparkles on demonic wand, viking helmet and vyxnaar helmets on mages

(btw Carapace is doing most of these changes so you can thank him. Unless you hate it, then you can thank me lol)

What else do we need to do to level things out?

Thanks folks, you rock!

The Invulnerability would work great in the spawn area in ctf aswell.

So while ur invulnerable for the 2/3 second u cud attack spawner in ctf.
This prevent spawners from coming too close to the spawn area in ctf.

[Nihiliste]

Level 9 skills should be lowered to 7 also...don't know if that's on your list for the future.

[kitelikefk]

Dex characters are gonna have a bad time at low lvls -.-

[kitelikefk]

Also low lvl str toons use 100+dmg swords and have extra armour from.shields. reducing 2h weapon damage only works in the favour of people that prefer armour over damage

[razerfingers]

Dex characters are gonna have a bad time at low lvls -.-

You're a noob then. No offense i played back when talon bears owned and max damage is less than fbow so please get your skills correct.

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

[Reunegade]

Level 9 skills should be lowered to 7 also...don't know if that's on your list for the future.

Nty. Everyone would have the same skill build. IMO, instead they should have the skills have less effect than what they do right now.

[XghostzX]

Nty. Everyone would have the same skill build. IMO, instead they should have the skills have less effect than what they do right now.

Or perhaps you're not granted one skill point every level?

[Z]

Or perhaps you're not granted one skill point every level?

That is honestly a mind blowing and good idea. Never thought of it. But like said before quick lvling is gonna be lots harder

[Zaonabiuibil]

(sorry if this was mentioned but I don't have the patience to look through the thread)

For the 3 second invincibility, perhaps that should be either 3 seconds or sooner if they attack or use a skill.

Because if I were to spawn next to a dude, 3 seconds of invincibility could easily get a kill.


-------------------
Sent using spray paint on the city walls.

[CrimsonTider]

Level 9 skills should be lowered to 7 also...don't know if that's on your list for the future.

No.


Nty. Everyone would have the same skill build. IMO, instead they should have the skills have less effect than what they do right now.

Yes.


Or perhaps you're not granted one skill point every level?

Not sure about this.


Now, instead of doing like 98% of the community, I will explain.

I will not go into detail like I did in the suggestions thread, but what Reun said is the best way to go. Lowering Skill levels to 6-7 causes everyone to be maxed at level 66 in all skills and adds no diversity to an already pretty dull use of class builds. Lowering the amount of statistics within each skill still allows for change at each level while taking care of stats which are in serious need of lowering (like dodge and crit.)

As far as Will's suggestion goes, this would lower the overall skill points earned by half. Yes, it would make us all have to think about how to spec our toons, but I am not sure how much diversity would exist. Bears would still max rage, birds focus and blast, and mages blessings. If we nerf the statistics of the overall skills, then this is definitely not needed. Matches would go from a few seconds to insane lengths of time due to the lack of.. well... anything. Especially at end-game.

The other thing we all need to remember is, though PvP is where the greatest need for these changes is seen, PvE does still exist and if too many changes are made, farming Fang, Humania, and Blacksmoke will essentially die. I realize that not everyone farms, but there IS a vastly greater number of farmers/levelers than those in PvP.

Just a few thoughts. I am excited for the new changes, but too much can be a bad thing.

[Nihiliste]

You're right Crim, I would definately prefer having the skill effects toned down.

[tHelonestud]

Now, instead of doing like 98% of the community, I will explain.

I will not go into detail like I did in the suggestions thread, but what Reun said is the best way to go. Lowering Skill levels to 6-7 causes everyone to be maxed at level 66 in all skills and adds no diversity to an already pretty dull use of class builds. Lowering the amount of statistics within each skill still allows for change at each level while taking care of stats which are in serious need of lowering (like dodge and crit.)

As far as Will's suggestion goes, this would lower the overall skill points earned by half. Yes, it would make us all have to think about how to spec our toons, but I am not sure how much diversity would exist. Bears would still max rage, birds focus and blast, and mages blessings. If we nerf the statistics of the overall skills, then this is definitely not needed. Matches would go from a few seconds to insane lengths of time due to the lack of.. well... anything. Especially at end-game.

The other thing we all need to remember is, though PvP is where the greatest need for these changes is seen, PvE does still exist and if too many changes are made, farming Fang, Humania, and Blacksmoke will essentially die. I realize that not everyone farms, but there IS a vastly greater number of farmers/levelers than those in PvP.

Just a few thoughts. I am excited for the new changes, but too much can be a bad thing.

Definitely, especially with those hit debuffs from bears and birds. Make them increase slower maybe even add a critical hit chance debuff as well

[BlueSkied]

You're a noob then. No offense i played back when talon bears owned and max damage is less than fbow so please get your skills correct.

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

Sorry to burst your proverbial bubble, but back then there were no rhinos or mages with rhino plat packs.

[XghostzX]

Yeah, you make a good point, Chris. Sorry for always looking at things from a PvP perspective - my motto in online games have always been, "Get what you need from PvE, then take it to the PvP arena." But you are very right.

[NotYoCookiez]

No.



Yes.



Not sure about this.


Now, instead of doing like 98% of the community, I will explain.

I will not go into detail like I did in the suggestions thread, but what Reun said is the best way to go. Lowering Skill levels to 6-7 causes everyone to be maxed at level 66 in all skills and adds no diversity to an already pretty dull use of class builds. Lowering the amount of statistics within each skill still allows for change at each level while taking care of stats which are in serious need of lowering (like dodge and crit.)

As far as Will's suggestion goes, this would lower the overall skill points earned by half. Yes, it would make us all have to think about how to spec our toons, but I am not sure how much diversity would exist. Bears would still max rage, birds focus and blast, and mages blessings. If we nerf the statistics of the overall skills, then this is definitely not needed. Matches would go from a few seconds to insane lengths of time due to the lack of.. well... anything. Especially at end-game.

The other thing we all need to remember is, though PvP is where the greatest need for these changes is seen, PvE does still exist and if too many changes are made, farming Fang, Humania, and Blacksmoke will essentially die. I realize that not everyone farms, but there IS a vastly greater number of farmers/levelers than those in PvP.

Just a few thoughts. I am excited for the new changes, but too much can be a bad thing.

Everyone wants the best for pvp but doesnt realize how it will affect pve. But then again I think the main goal for this nerf season stg is putting out for us is to fix PvP

[Jig]

Everyone wants the best for pvp but doesnt realize how it will affect pve. But then again I think the main goal for this nerf season stg is putting out for us is to fix PvP

True, but you forgot that this game is needed on thrasher anyways... just need to make the campaigns easier but not easier but more strategic.

[kitelikefk]

You're a noob then. No offense i played back when talon bears owned and max damage is less than fbow so please get your skills correct.

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

Im not actually a noob. But thanks for your input.

Revised: Anything other than a 'pro' bear is gonna have a bad time -.-

[Extreme]

Im not actually a noob. But thanks for your input.

Revised: Anything other than a 'pro' bear is gonna have a bad time -.-

Back to Old times :D Low lv here I come!

[kitelikefk]

Im not going back to 10-17pvp. Think ill just stay at 23.

[Carapace]

To the point regarding skills, we have in the works for this week a "smoothing" of values for dodge and crit across all the classes. An example is Archer Focus. This will modify Crit and Hit chances from being 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 - to something more like 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 22.5, 25, 26.

The buffs and debuffs of these have been reduced, but not too much as PL is a different animal. It's also a moving target and requires active feedback from the community. Also the free respecs to really allow everyone to play with these kind of changes.

[kitelikefk]

To the point regarding skills, we have in the works for this week a "smoothing" of values for dodge and crit across all the classes. An example is Archer Focus. This will modify Crit and Hit chances from being 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 - to something more like 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 22.5, 25, 26.

The buffs and debuffs of these have been reduced, but not too much as PL is a different animal. It's also a moving target and requires active feedback from the community. Also the free respecs to really allow everyone to play with these kind of changes.

Good idea imo. Pvp is alot better now, but what about the effects this will have on pve? :s

[Justg]

Good idea imo. Pvp is alot better now, but what about the effects this will have on pve? :s

Hopefully you will tell us when the changes come out.

[CrimsonTider]

Hopefully you will tell us when the changes come out.

I am assuming there will be a feedback thread. Can we stress the importance of keeping all discussion with that thread? Also, would it be possible to make a feedback thread for each class?

Thanks again for all of your support.

[razerfingers]

Sorry to burst your proverbial bubble, but back then there were no rhinos or mages with rhino plat packs.

if you can't beat them, join them!

[Faliziaga]

A
To the point regarding skills, we have in the works for this week a "smoothing" of values for dodge and crit across all the classes. An example is Archer Focus. This will modify Crit and Hit chances from being 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 - to something more like 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 22.5, 25, 26.

The buffs and debuffs of these have been reduced, but not too much as PL is a different animal. It's also a moving target and requires active feedback from the community. Also the free respecs to really allow everyone to play with these kind of changes.
Regarding bird's skills fixing I'd like to comment that it is not obvious to me why birds need to invest 4-5 skillpoints into the 3m range skill 'avian scream' to get free from roots or stuns. And I do not understand why this effect is not mentioned in the skill description.

[stricker20000]

To the point regarding skills, we have in the works for this week a "smoothing" of values for dodge and crit across all the classes. An example is Archer Focus. This will modify Crit and Hit chances from being 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 - to something more like 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 22.5, 25, 26.

The buffs and debuffs of these have been reduced, but not too much as PL is a different animal. It's also a moving target and requires active feedback from the community. Also the free respecs to really allow everyone to play with these kind of changes.

wow dex bird with bow set (15dodge) will hv 15+26=41 dodge then and pallies, warbirds,bears got 47 dodge due to set, seriously?

bear with buffs then more, idk how much cuz i guess they will be changed too.
warbird with new buffs: 47dodge+26dodge=73dodge while dexbird has 41 then

[Hahahahabirdy]

To the point regarding skills, we have in the works for this week a "smoothing" of values for dodge and crit across all the classes. An example is Archer Focus. This will modify Crit and Hit chances from being 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 - to something more like 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 22.5, 25, 26.

The buffs and debuffs of these have been reduced, but not too much as PL is a different animal. It's also a moving target and requires active feedback from the community. Also the free respecs to really allow everyone to play with these kind of changes.

Will damage be toned down or armor/health be improved? Only decreasing crit and dodge wouldn't completely fix pvp as, for example, a bird's blast shot still has 600+ damage.

[razerfingers]

A
Regarding bird's skills fixing I'd like to comment that it is not obvious to me why birds need to invest 4-5 skillpoints into the 3m range skill 'avian scream' to get free from roots or stuns. And I do not understand why this effect is not mentioned in the skill description.

i did not know that. hmm

[Carapace]

Will damage be toned down or armor/health be improved? Only decreasing crit and dodge wouldn't completely fix pvp as, for example, a bird's blast shot still has 600+ damage.

It's an iterative process, currently no plans to do that but we will have to see where the needle lies after some feedback reports.

[Carapace]

wow dex bird with bow set (15dodge) will hv 15+26=41 dodge then and pallies, warbirds,bears got 47 dodge due to set, seriously?

bear with buffs then more, idk how much cuz i guess they will be changed too.
warbird with new buffs: 47dodge+26dodge=73dodge while dexbird has 41 then

This was just an example, all of the other classes are having equivalent nerfs to their dodge and crit values. This ties in to the free respecs.

[Zeus]

This should be the case in all PvP zones I believe

I wouldn't suggest it in PvP maps, as spawn spots are close and people may switch abuse the anti-spawn invulnerability (if you catch my drift).

CTF, however would work great!

[Archermaster]

this is just an idea- we could make it so we have more health for pvp and higher regen on health and in pve we could have the mobs hit a little more than usual

[Trenton]

I'm hoping L20-L40 Bear/Rhino plat packs will get nerfed as well? Super overpowered, just as much/more op than forg.

[Bous]

I'm hoping L20-L40 Bear/Rhino plat packs will get nerfed as well? Super overpowered, just as much/more op than forg.

Especially the l20

[BlueSkied]

40 bird with Rhino hammer ggs 40 mages with chunker. I've lived it.

[Jig]

Lovin' this progress ;)

[Extreme]

Lovin' this progress ;)

Let's rock L35 back Jigbowl

[stricker20000]

This was just an example, all of the other classes are having equivalent nerfs to their dodge and crit values. This ties in to the free respecs.

so u nerf the sets dodge too?

[Itoopeo]

What about the lower lvl mages opness? Example: a L30 mage can nuke my L30 iceberg bear in 1-2secs, while hiding behind their mana bubble and armor buffs

[Waug]

These ideas seeming realy "great nerf" more bigger challenge would be testing/listening feedbacks, after doing these changes.

hope community provides truely neutral feedback.

[Jig]

Let's rock L35 back Jigbowl

Not yet mate not yet trying to be more active hah

[johnny6880]

You guys need to make fox have break mana shield because thats a huge probelm with fox taking on a paladin mage

[Chickenrunnn]

Justg & Dev team, Ty for the Nerf's, but I don't fully agree with some you did :).


1) Since you lowered Birds buffes, you should have lowered the damage of the end game gears.
Indeed, staff mages, pallies, bears, etc.. EVERYONE can 1 shot birds now...
PLEASE, if you leave the buffed-nerfed that way, LOWER the damage for end game! OR increase HP, because oneshots are OP.
Dodge was the only way for birds to live before.
If you do so (lower damage/increase HP), lower the rhino heal, because even 3vs1, rhino full str won't die.
In addition, fox are very OP now, you should lower the foreword dash (dash less far), because they have an hyptonize to bring people to them. Moreover, they could cros CTF map in 5 seconds.

2) UNABLE INVINCIBLE RESPAWN at the middle of the map :)
Indeed, a triple pally team is just.... invincible..

3) Spectral Paws weren't nerfed O.O.. and liquidate price is still the same..
Please, nerf it, it is way better than any other wands.

If some more ideas come out, I'll post them here.

Thanks for all, and cya :)

[tHelonestud]

3) Spectral Paws weren't nerfed O.O.. and liquidate price is still the same..
Please, nerf it, it is way better than any other wands.

The 2012 dolls werent nerfed either
Actually I don't think any of the shields were nerfed, I guess they weren't as overpowered though

[Hook]

[QUOTE=Chickenrunnn:1260480]Justg & Dev team, Ty for the Nerf's, but I don't fully agree with some you did :).


1) Since you lowered Birds buffes, you should have lowered the damage of the end game gears.
Indeed, staff mages, pallies, bears, etc.. EVERYONE can 1 shot birds now...
PLEASE, if you leave the buffed-nerfed that way, LOWER the damage for end game! OR increase HP, because oneshots are OP.
Dodge was the only way for birds to live before.
If you do so (lower damage/increase HP), lower the rhino heal, because even 3vs1, rhino full str won't die.

All classes got debuffed. Not just bird.

[Chickenrunnn]

Justg & Dev team, Ty for the Nerf's, but I don't fully agree with some you did :).


1) Since you lowered Birds buffes, you should have lowered the damage of the end game gears.
Indeed, staff mages, pallies, bears, etc.. EVERYONE can 1 shot birds now...
PLEASE, if you leave the buffed-nerfed that way, LOWER the damage for end game! OR increase HP, because oneshots are OP.
Dodge was the only way for birds to live before.
If you do so (lower damage/increase HP), lower the rhino heal, because even 3vs1, rhino full str won't die.

All classes got debuffed. Not just bird.

Eh, mage hitting 634 is nerfed? The point isn't to nerf classes (except rhino with heals and fox, lowering the dashes), but to nerf items.


The 2012 dolls werent nerfed either
Actually I don't think any of the shields were nerfed, I guess they weren't as overpowered though

A shield isn't like a weapon.. Weapon nerfed is more important than shield I think :)

[Roberto077]

All classes got debuffed. Not just bird.

Birds have no survivability though.

[Gragorak]

In addition, fox are very OP now, you should lower the foreword dash (dash less far), because they have an hyptonize to bring people to them. Moreover, they could cros CTF map in 5 seconds.
Congratulations, you're the first person ever to complain about foxes being too OP. Please make one and tell me how "OP" they are.

***

Yeah, paws and halloween shields weren't nerfed. Paws should obviously be nerfed, and so should be shields too IMO. They're just way too powerful when compared to winter fest shields.

[tHelonestud]

A shield isn't like a weapon.. Weapon nerfed is more important than shield I think :)
That's what I realized, I mean they are quite better than other shields, but not a huge damage difference than the weapons, I don't really mind if they stay the same
I don't really think fox or rhino need nerfed at all, rhino are very tough with heal, but they also have much lower damage. If you play an FFA one team will win. Maybe the dashes shouldn't work without a target in range but besides that fox and rhino is fine. Most overpowered 1v1 skills I would definitely say rage and hellscream just give a bear a bow and he can auto people with those two skills.

[Zapoke]

Most overpowered 1v1 skills I would definitely say rage and hellscream just give a bear a bow and he can auto people with those two skills.

I'd say it's Rage, Mana Shield, and Drain. Hellscream is good, but I'd take a Hellscream before I'd take a Crushing Blow (if I had the choice).

[tHelonestud]

I'd say it's Rage, Mana Shield, and Drain. Hellscream is good, but I'd take a Hellscream before I'd take a Crushing Blow (if I had the choice).

maybe I am just looking from bow bear perspective: I can hellscream the same time anyone else uses a skill drastically knock down their damage as well as combining a blind proc from my bow knocking anything but birds and foxes to below 50% chance of hitting, not to mention the stun

[Trenton]

All I have to say is: Birds:/

[Bous]

Congratulations, you're the first person ever to complain about foxes being too OP. Please make one and tell me how "OP" they are.

***

Yeah, paws and halloween shields weren't nerfed. Paws should obviously be nerfed, and so should be shields too IMO. They're just way too powerful when compared to winter fest shields.

Forreal so there would actually be some rare items like toys sbls l15 ginger and so on all it still is is paws and fbows from lvl 10-25

[Roberto077]

Congratulations, you're the first person ever to complain about foxes being too OP. Please make one and tell me how "OP" they are.

***

Yeah, paws and halloween shields weren't nerfed. Paws should obviously be nerfed, and so should be shields too IMO. They're just way too powerful when compared to winter fest shields.

OP oyster.

[Whatsinaname]

. Paws should obviously be nerfed, and so should be shields too IMO. They're just way too powerful when compared to winter fest shields.

OMG! But I just sold my Forgotten Bows to Buy a level 30 Paw! Now thats gotta be nerfed also? STOP THE INSANITY! The redistribution (nerfing) of weapon stats because someone didn't chose to make a build to use them has to have its reasonable limits. If Paws are "just way too powerful when compared to winter fest shields" then don't buy a winter fest shield for PVP! Have you also noticed that all the pink stuff is way too powerful when compared to all the white stuff? By this logic should all pinks should be nerd down to white to make the playing field even? If your build and equipment doesn't beat my build equipment, change your build and equipment. Lord knows plenty of players found ways to beat me when I was using a Forgotten Bow and Plenty a Bear can Beckon Stomp before do much damage with a Paw. I guess some people just want to win every time and are willing to "level the playing field" until they do win every time.

It this goes too far we all might as well be playing "Rock, Paper, Scissors"

[Reunegade]

OMG! But I just sold my Forgotten Bows to Buy a level 30 Paw! Now thats gotta be nerfed also? STOP THE INSANITY! The redistribution (nerfing) of weapon stats because someone didn't chose to make a build to use them has to have its reasonable limits. If Paws are "just way too powerful when compared to winter fest shields" then don't buy a winter fest shield for PVP! Have you also noticed that all the pink stuff is way too powerful when compared to all the white stuff? By this logic should all pinks should be nerd down to white to make the playing field even? If your build and equipment doesn't beat my build equipment, change your build and equipment. Lord knows plenty of players found ways to beat me when I was using a Forgotten Bow and Plenty a Bear can Beckon Stomp before do much damage with a Paw. I guess some people just want to win every time and are willing to "level the playing field" until they do win every time.
Um, I don't think it is fair that a green 'Spectral' paw is better than a pink paw by 15+ damage. StG nerfed the pink ones but forgot to nerf some other ones.

[Roberto077]

OMG! But I just sold my Forgotten Bows to Buy a level 30 Paw! Now thats gotta be nerfed also? STOP THE INSANITY! The redistribution (nerfing) of weapon stats because someone didn't chose to make a build to use them has to have its reasonable limits. If Paws are "just way too powerful when compared to winter fest shields" then don't buy a winter fest shield for PVP! Have you also noticed that all the pink stuff is way too powerful when compared to all the white stuff? By this logic should all pinks should be nerd down to white to make the playing field even? If your build and equipment doesn't beat my build equipment, change your build and equipment. Lord knows plenty of players found ways to beat me when I was using a Forgotten Bow and Plenty a Bear can Beckon Stomp before do much damage with a Paw. I guess some people just want to win every time and are willing to "level the playing field" until they do win every time.

You forgot to say that halloween items are way more powerful than any set in low levels. Winterfest items aren't the best for low level even when compared to some weapons like platinum talons. We all expected halloween and forgotten items to be nerfed. There is no insanity going on here.

[Extreme]

Now mages 1Hit birds..

[Roberto077]

Now mages 1Hit birds..

Gotta get that damage balanced out :/

[Justg]

We should let this burn in for awhile (with free respecs) while we collect full feedback from you guys. In the meantime, experiment as much as you can and we very much appreciate your help!

We'll get a couple of directed threads going tomorrow.

- g

[Whatsinaname]

Um, I don't think it is fair that a green 'Spectral' paw is better than a pink paw by 15+ damage. StG nerfed the pink ones but forgot to nerf some other ones.

If that is the case, I agree. At some point the Focused "band aids" will become worse than the original problem was.


We should let this burn in for awhile (with free respecs) while we collect full feedback from you guys. In the meantime, experiment as much as you can and we very much appreciate your help!

We'll get a couple of directed threads going tomorrow.

- g
Cool Beans I think we should let the dust settle a bit to see where we actually are. BTW thanks for all your work.

[Extreme]

We should let this burn in for awhile (with free respecs) while we collect full feedback from you guys. In the meantime, experiment as much as you can and we very much appreciate your help!

We'll get a couple of directed threads going tomorrow.

- g

Thanks for the understanding, Gary. Really appreciate it, @ your statement above does this mean that things will get rebalanced again? If yes I'd be so happy, once again Thanks for the attention given!

-Ex

[Chickenrunnn]

Congratulations, you're the first person ever to complain about foxes being too OP. Please make one and tell me how "OP" they are.

***

Awesome! Been such a long time I wanted that price :'D!
How they r OP? Early game in PvP, they truly aren't good, unless you buy plat set (which would make any class pro actually).
End game, they are very good when you know how to play it, double dash permits to steal flags, it also permits to stand close to ur opponent even if that last push you back, with savage and his new buff, it dodges 100%. In addition, it can pull you to him..
Fox vs bird --> bird get owned
Fox vs bear --> fight depends on dodge
Fox vs rhino --> gowd I don't wanna see that
Fox vs mage --> mage owns the fox cuz of mana shield

The main problem of end game comes from the sets, which deal way too much damage, and dodge way too much for str..

When I said fox were OP, I meant their dash is OP in ctf, and you can't tell me they aren't..
Double dash makes u cross the map in 4 seconds ..

[Caiahar]

Rhinos rhino might hasnt been increased in range, I suppose it might this week.

[Bous]

People need to chill out. its not like theyre done fixing endgame. Buffs were decreased because of how insane they got. One thing they could do is add health to endgame sets

[tHelonestud]

after more testing in both PvP and PvE:
PVP
Really I think everything has only made improvements as far as stats go
Obviously the invincibility orb needs some work, I think ideally it should only work I the spawn room of a CTF map
Needs nerfed more: damage, rage damage increase, possibly drain skill damage(I personally don't find a major problem with it if all damage gets nerfed), bears' evade skill was overlooked in the dodge skill nerfs
Needs increased: Health, armor, birds' evade armor buff


PVE
Main disadvantage is with birds they are much squishier now
Not sure how future damage/armor changes will work in pve, most likely take a lot of calculations to rework the stats to fit both


Again Developers,
Thanks so much for the work you are putting in, the people making the calculations and G for having read our contradicting posts and repetitive claims
You guys are awesome

I will keep testing out my characters with each addition

[Hook]

Congratulations, you're the first person ever to complain about foxes being too OP. Please make one and tell me how "OP" they are.

***

Awesome! Been such a long time I wanted that price :'D!
How they r OP? Early game in PvP, they truly aren't good, unless you buy plat set (which would make any class pro actually).
End game, they are very good when you know how to play it, double dash permits to steal flags, it also permits to stand close to ur opponent even if that last push you back, with savage and his new buff, it dodges 100%. In addition, it can pull you to him..
Fox vs bird --> bird get owned
Fox vs bear --> fight depends on dodge
Fox vs rhino --> gowd I don't wanna see that
Fox vs mage --> mage owns the fox cuz of mana shield

The main problem of end game comes from the sets, which deal way too much damage, and dodge way too much for str..

When I said fox were OP, I meant their dash is OP in ctf, and you can't tell me they aren't..
Double dash makes u cross the map in 4 seconds ..

Last time i checked, getting flags doesnt win a fight. Each class has their own small uniqueness.
You complain about a fox being able to "pull"?? Seriously lol
Do you see a fox being able to knock back opponents greatly like birds or bears? The knockback from their vixen kick , sends the opponent back about 3m. An avians repulse sends an enemy like 8m back. Not to mention a bears' stomp knockback effect sends the enemy 12m to a lot more. (By the way, they can pull too).
A foxes heal is pretty much useless. Its a slow heal. Damage cancels it. A mages heal is 200% more productive, if you know what i mean.
If at endgame your having problems againts a vixen, then maybe you should learn your preferred character better. Vixens are from OP. If they were OP, everyone would be a fox in endgame.

[BlueSkied]

Whatever they did to birds' evade is no bueno. At 66 a darn Islander mage dodges more than I do. That's really not an exaggeration.

[Shilooo]

Foxes are far from over powered!

I'm speaking as a pure dex fox. And most consider me a good fox.

I ffa'ed a bird and half the time I was dead before any of my skills hit. The only 12m skill Hypnotize has too long of a delay ( also would be nice if it had a dmg or dodge debuff added to it).

The only way to free yourself from root or frost is in the evasion buff. That is silly sice you obviously buff before the fight... So no way to un-root till buffs reload.

A fox has no usefull combo because rabid bite can only be used at skill lvl 1 and still leap. So the damage isn't big enough (445-478). Maxed rabid would be 525-558) that would be usefull.
EDIT- Just maxed rabid bite for the sole purpose of 1vs 1. The combo damage didn't seem to help.

Heal is pointless. Can't be used during a fight since dmg will cancel it. So it's only good for regen between fights. Even if it is maxed heal is supposed to heal 95-105 I think. Last time I tried that it only healed 58! Why is that?

I also faught 2 different str mages. Didn't win one fight.

Then tried 3 bears. Out of the 15 fights think I won 3. If they just beckon stomp they win. When they pull me and try to slash they die. Wasn't hard for them to figure out.

Only tried one int Mage with a staff. Was able to kill the staff Mage. But was close to death. Also that Mage had a bad ping. And I'm about 80-120 ping most the time. Any Mage with a wand would easily kill a fox. We can't live long enough to get past a shield. EDIT- just tried the same Mage with a wand and got wrecked.

Yes we run fast with a flag...... MUST BE OP!

I understand this is a work in progress, and hope to see more done.

I don't speak much. I leave that for the well spoken more technical leaders of the community. I just felt since people ask me for advice on fox I would add my 2 cents.

Shiloo

[Urqui]

Well, since changes are being made... how about some commas for auction, trades etc?
Just saying.

[Duflie]

How come they you guys don't go with a simpler fix.
Add more and MORE health to players so that they can have a longer fight.
Efficient Hit % with little dodges to ensure a fight with hits instead of misses and dodges.
Crit is part of luck that gets to chop a chunk of hp off you. So this shouldn't be too high that players can stack to get almost a crit on every hit.
Then for PvE the only fix is.... Since we add more health to make PvP last longer, Just let Mobs have more damage so it will balance out PvE by not making players too dominant over Computer enemies because we have way more health.

I'm sure you've thought of this before and there's a reason why it might not work. So please contribute to my chain of thought.

[Oxymoron]

Have 2 suggestions, is this the right thread? I'll just post anyways :)

1) not so social one, can we limit towne entry to players that meets the minimum dungeon req for that said towne? Many lower level players are asking for stuffs n golds in higher lvl townes

2) not sure if its easy to do but can it be made possible to access our sales in cs thru our game page? Saves alot of time keep running to baleforst castle, esp if one has many toons; buying of items from cs can remain status quo :)

Ty so very much to whom it may concern
P.s i can take NO for an answer :p

[Reunegade]

IMO, I think the invincibility orb should be on until you leave the spawn room in CTF. That way if you get revived, you won't get the invincibility orb.

[Lexlyde]

Wooot I finally have a real black ice wand wich I'll can show off!!

[Extreme]

Int bird timee..

[tHelonestud]

Whatever they did to birds' evade is no bueno. At 66 a fckin Islander mage dodges more than I do. That's really not an exaggeration.
Actually it is, your dodge buff alone is 28 which is more than any pure int 66 mage will have unless you have been fighting some 66 elite ring mages.
Also the language isn't necessary here especially if you are just frustrated with having less dodge. Land blind and you should be good to go.

[BlueSkied]

Actually it is, your dodge buff alone is 28 which is more than any pure int 66 mage will have unless you have been fighting some 66 elite ring mages.
Also the language isn't necessary here especially if you are just frustrated with having less dodge. Land blind and you should be good to go.

Yes, you are right. I edited the expletive out of my post. I'll just need to rethink tactics.

[Gragorak]

Um, I don't think it is fair that a green 'Spectral' paw is better than a pink paw by 15+ damage. StG nerfed the pink ones but forgot to nerf some other ones.
All my paws (including pink ones) have their stats and liquidation values unchanged.


Awesome! Been such a long time I wanted that price :'D!
How they r OP? Early game in PvP, they truly aren't good, unless you buy plat set (which would make any class pro actually).
End game, they are very good when you know how to play it, double dash permits to steal flags, it also permits to stand close to ur opponent even if that last push you back, with savage and his new buff, it dodges 100%. In addition, it can pull you to him..
Fox vs bird --> bird get owned
Fox vs bear --> fight depends on dodge
Fox vs rhino --> gowd I don't wanna see that
Fox vs mage --> mage owns the fox cuz of mana shield
Fox is a very good class in low level twinking (talkin' about levels 22-26 mainly), and they can win any class. Plat set isn't needed, I've tried to use those L.20 str packs with my fox, and I have to say that nuke fox is a lot better.

Sure, foxes can be good in end game, but that doesn't mean they would be overpowered. I know, dashes are super awesome in ctf, but that doesn't make them overpowered. Mages' heal for example is a lot more powerful skill, but it isn't overpowered either. Dashes don't really help you to get close to your opponent since they don't work if you are rooted/frozen/stunned. And foxes don't have any way to get out of those when they are buffed, so if you want to kite a fox, you just have to root him.

If fox really would own birds easily in end game, I guess end game DM matches would be full of foxes. But I hardly see any.


When I said fox were OP, I meant their dash is OP in ctf, and you can't tell me they aren't..
Double dash makes u cross the map in 4 seconds ..
Exaggerating much? It takes 15 seconds for fox to move from one flag room to another in rockwall forts. Sure, thats double faster than what it takes for the original classes, but that's not even close to that 4 seconds.

Ok, I understand now what you meant. But still, dashes aren't overpowered

@Shiloo, I completely agree with your post. One thing:


A fox has no usefull combo because rabid bite can only be used at skill lvl 1 and still leap. So the damage isn't big enough (445-478). Maxed rabid would be 525-558) that would be usefull.
EDIT- Just maxed rabid bite for the sole purpose of 1vs 1. The combo damage didn't seem to help.
Combo damage is based on the rank of hamstring (I have tested this), so it's not a big problem to leave rabid bite at rank 1.

[tHelonestud]

Yes, you are right. I edited the expletive out of my post. I'll just need to rethink tactics.
They may well have dodged more than you in a fight or several, which I why the dodge on gear needed nerfed as well as the buffs. Good luck in pvp though, and of course right now will be rough because, it has just been the first of many changes.

[Chickenrunnn]

All my paws (including pink ones) have their stats and liquidation values unchanged.



Sure, foxes can be good in end game, but that doesn't mean they would be overpowered. I know, dashes are super awesome in ctf, but that doesn't make them overpowered. Mages' heal for example is a lot more powerful skill, but it isn't overpowered either. Dashes don't really help you to get close to your opponent since they don't work if you are rooted/frozen/stunned. And foxes don't have any way to get out of those when they are buffed, so if you want to kite a fox, you just have to root him.


Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think the armor buff of foxes permit to unfreeze/unroot..:)



If fox really would own birds easily in end game, I guess end game DM matches would be full of foxes. But I hardly see any.


Eh, not anymore. Birds can be nuked way more easier now :)
And about the end game lack of fox/rhino, it's because I think many players don't feel like getting 200K+ xp in order to cap a character from lvl1 to 76.



Exaggerating much? It takes 15 seconds for fox to move from one flag room to another in rockwall forts. Sure, thats double faster than what it takes for the original classes, but that's not even close to that 4 seconds.


Just made it in 9 seconds on my 35 fox :)

[Gragorak]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think the armor buff of foxes permit to unfreeze/unroot..
Yeah, evasion frees from stuns/freezes/roots. Problem is that you probably want to buff before fight => you have no chance to free yourself during the next 15 seconds.


And about the end game lack of fox/rhino, it's because I think many players don't feel like getting 200K+ xp in order to cap a character from lvl1 to 76.
If foxes were truly OP, the same people who made birds after BSM release would have made foxes after winter fest / would be making them now. It's only 150k exp from level 1 to level 75, that doesn't take too long in mega maze with full group, trasher and 2x week long.


Just made it in 9 seconds on my 35 fox :)
Did you do it from flag to flag or from flag room to flag room? Anyways, that's pretty fast. But still, not even close to being 4 seconds. :distant:

[Chickenrunnn]

Yeah, evasion frees from stuns/freezes/roots. Problem is that you probably want to buff before fight => you have no chance to free yourself during the next 15 seconds.


I think they increase the pulling power of hypnotyze to avoid being kited :o
Sure sure tho :) Felt like the grab was stronger last time I went in pvp and fought with my fox :O




If foxes were truly OP, the same people who made birds after BSM release would have made foxes after winter fest / would be making them now. It's only 150k exp from level 1 to level 75, that doesn't take too long in mega maze with full group, trasher and 2x week long.


1) You'll see :) Soon, many foxes will be out :D.
It is an awesomely funny class after all ^^

2) I don't think all the players feel like spending 40/50$ just to level up faster..




Did you do it from flag to flag or from flag room to flag room? Anyways, that's pretty fast. But still, not even close to being 4 seconds. :distant:


Was in my spawning room, and went to their flag room :D..
Flag Room to flag room is pretty much the same distance :o

And 4 seconds is closer to 9 seconds than 15s :banana:

[Gragorak]

1) You'll see :) Soon, many foxes will be out . :D
It is an awesomely funny class after all ^^
Well, we'll see. Actually I'm planning to level my 56 fox to end game as well.


2) I don't think all the players feel like spending 40/50$ just to level up faster..
Yep, most of the people don't want to pay tons of plat to level in mega maze. But many of those who just want op class quickly to end game would do this. Remember how the amount of birds increased dramatically soon after BSM release?


Was in my spawning room, and went to their flag room :D..
Flag Room to flag room is pretty much the same distance :o

And 4 seconds is closer to 9 seconds than 15s :banana:
I tried spawn room => flag room, and it seems to be about 9 seconds. But from flag to flag the distance is longer, especially the distance that you have to walk normally. That takes about 15 seconds. The time it takes to travel from flag to flag is a lot more important that the time it takes to travel from spawn room to flag room.

[Faliziaga]

Pls balance the sets to bring more diversity to endgame pvp as it is overpopulated by str

[tHelonestud]

Pls balance the sets to bring more diversity to endgame pvp as it is overpopulated by str

Definitely, the dodge stats on many sets needed nerfed along with the buff values

[BlueSkied]

Bears dodge everything at 71 and can stun you at 12m. If you're a pure bird you win one out of three times, and that's a "skilled" bird. Even if you kite the first beckon, that hellscream lands and its good game. I guess what can be done about this is a change to strength gear. But, that's up to the devs.

[Faliziaga]

I agree about the bear's stun, I've posted this in the thread "your top three things that need fixin in pl". No more dodging of hs now on my dex bird neither on my int mage and no 'stun chance 100% for 3 secs' in the skill description.

[Extreme]

Bleh, Birds aren't as good as sewers.. too under powered but over all I enjoy Having a bear.

[tHelonestud]

I think 4 or 5 dodge should be the max value on any individual item
And the bear's evade still needs nerfed besides that I think the dodge fixing should be about done

[Caiahar]

Rhinos:
12m charge can be kited easily, repulse and fire can knock you away, as they would to a bears beckon, or simply use fire/repulse AFTER you charge, so you can't hit redemption to do your damage. No need to change atm.
Rhino might: You practically have to hug your opponent in lower levels just to hit it. And even at 6, 70% chance.
I'm not saying boost the % of being stunned, but increase the range. Increase it to 8 or 10m, I'm thinking 12m would make rhino too OP.
We're doing things one at a time, aren't we? So if might gets to 10m, and if people complain about rhinos being OP now (not sure of they even would...) then either change might to 8m, or charge to 10m.

[Multibird]

Charge is good at 12

[Faliziaga]

Pls also have a look at dex set's mana regen. The stacking mobs' hit debuffs in Humania and BSM cause mana issues in Pve after the dodge nerf especially in elite maps.
Less dodge> more hits> much too high debuffs on regen

41344

Savage set 20 mana regen
Swift set 15 mana regen with higher mana cost for skills

[Meekness]

I have a request for foxes particularly endgame.
I would like an escape or something like that on the fox heal skill I feel it would be more fair


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free (http://tapatalk.com/m/)

[Dohvakiian]

Its great to see that Spacetime is putting time and effort into Pocket Legends with all the updates,however the nerfing of skills is not the solution.I have played all classes,at almost all levels,and with all sorts of builds for both pvp and pve.Lowering skills drastically affects pve it greatly reduces survivability and speed in pve.Even now with a x3 combo i still cant hit as much dmg as before therefore slowing down my farming and leveling.Instead of reducing skills you should add more health/and or armor so fights last longer in pvp and so we are able to still able to go through dungeons without degrading our performance.Yes you have helped the pvp side abit but have negatively affected the pve side.I thank you for taking the time to read and consider this.

-sincerely,
Dohvakiian(a concerned pocket legends veteran)

P.s i know i put this in another thread already but i wasn't aware that i was supposed to place it here

[tHelonestud]

Its great to see that Spacetime is putting time and effort into Pocket Legends with all the updates,however the nerfing of skills is not the solution.I have played all classes,at almost all levels,and with all sorts of builds for both pvp and pve.Lowering skills drastically affects pve it greatly reduces survivability and speed in pve.Even now with a x3 combo i still cant hit as much dmg as before therefore slowing down my farming and leveling.Instead of reducing skills you should add more health/and or armor so fights last longer in pvp and so we are able to still able to go through dungeons without degrading our performance.Yes you have helped the pvp side abit but have negatively affected the pve side.I thank you for taking the time to read and consider this.

-sincerely,
Dohvakiian(a concerned pocket legends veteran)

P.s i know i put this in another thread already but i wasn't aware that i was supposed to place it here

You must have changed your build if you can't hit as high, only the crit buff changed so you have just as much damage as before. It just might not double quite as much.

[Dohvakiian]

Its great to see that Spacetime is putting time and effort into Pocket Legends with all the updates,however the nerfing of skills is not the solution.I have played all classes,at almost all levels,and with all sorts of builds for both pvp and pve.Lowering skills drastically affects pve it greatly reduces survivability and speed in pve.Even now with a x3 combo i still cant hit as much dmg as before therefore slowing down my farming and leveling.Instead of reducing skills you should add more health/and or armor so fights last longer in pvp and so we are able to still able to go through dungeons without degrading our performance.Yes you have helped the pvp side abit but have negatively affected the pve side.I thank you for taking the time to read and consider this.

-sincerely,
Dohvakiian(a concerned pocket legends veteran)

P.s i know i put this in another thread already but i wasn't aware that i was supposed to place it here

You must have changed your build if you can't hit as high, only the crit buff changed so you have just as much damage as before. It just might not double quite as much.

Actually no i havent changed anything at all even my crits are lower than before,not the percentage but the actual damage.Ive noticed this on all my main characters from each class.But i have noticed bears dont tank as much as before in pve,wasnt the purpose of them having high health ,armor ,and dodge to take hits and survive longer than the other classes

[tHelonestud]

Actually no i havent changed anything at all even my crits are lower than before,not the percentage but the actual damage.

Not sure why this is then, because they haven't nerfed any damage except on event items. Either you changed your build(which you denied), you are imagining it, or your character is bugged.

[Dohvakiian]

I have not changed it (157 str rest dex ) 9 all buffs ,previously when i would crit in bsm it would be 1200-1300 lately ive been seeing 800-1k

[Dohvakiian]

Possibly im bugged im not sure ,but im just saying whats been happening.

[Faliziaga]

Two different games, sama mana situation. I'm wearing blue ring of valiant glory, swift set , 3x daily combo + 2xcombo.

41388



41389

[Roberto077]

Solution: use chrome :)

[CrimsonTider]

There is no bug. Crit was lowered in all classes and with each class being able to crit at levels 90+ to now being lowered 30-40 less, your damage will be reduced. It will cause you to work more as a team in PvE, which is how it should be. Those of us (very few) who were around pre-elixirs had to be much more patient. I highly doubt a 3x elixir run will be slowed that much.

Time for people to be referred back to the "old guides" and refresh how to play their classes properly.

[Dohvakiian]

No ive always been a good bear i just noticed difference in performance,im still doing good just not like before,"team" haha people just hang back and watch most of the time while im clearing mobs (while im on any class)

[Roberto077]

There is no bug. Crit was lowered in all classes and with each class being able to crit at levels 90+ to now being lowered 30-40 less, your damage will be reduced. It will cause you to work more as a team in PvE, which is how it should be. Those of us (very few) who were around pre-elixirs had to be much more patient. I highly doubt a 3x elixir run will be slowed that much.

Time for people to be referred back to the "old guides" and refresh how to play their classes properly.

I'm lovin' this update too.

[stricker20000]

Two different games, sama mana situation. I'm wearing blue ring of valiant glory, swift set , 3x daily combo + 2xcombo.

41388




41389

got the same problem with mana in elite maps, n chrome cant be the solution...

[angeldawn]

No ive always been a good bear i just noticed difference in performance,im still doing good just not like before,"team" haha people just hang back and watch most of the time while im clearing mobs (while im on any class)

Maybe you teach the ppl you are running with how to play with you since you are a 'good bear'

Have the Mage debuff while u pull and beckon. Then Mage ice, bird root, bear stomp while Mage lightings and fires and so on. (Depending who you are playing with.)

Good player also know how to teach others how to play as a team and can adapt to others playing styles.

Sewer teams FTW!!!!

[Dohvakiian]

Haha I've tried all i get are "stfu bear","why should i listen to you","you have been booted by *********,reason:don't tell me what to do ,ect ;nobody listens and this is from multiple groups..haha i cant help those who refuse assistance.

"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink"

[Dohvakiian]

Oh and i know this is off topic but does anyone know a good wifi service:i currently have at&t wifi(their "good "router) but it just sucks.

Im open to suggestions

[CrimsonTider]

"You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink"

True, but if you don't attempt, how will you know they won't accept and try? All it takes is on.

[angeldawn]

You are surprised how many ppl are open to excepting help on becoming a better player especially when they see ppl playing as a team. They want to be a part of it and want to make run quicker.

If you can't do this in pug runs then find friends who can and just run with them.

I can adapt and play either way. I prefer team play but I know reality of getting a team playing run is low. If you do pull runs while beckoning and pulling to the same spots good ppl will take notice and start to support u properly.

[Dohvakiian]

O_o these players you speak of ,where do i find farm them ,i bet their drop rate is even lower than dragon vanities and retro gear

Haha most of the people on my friends list stopped playing because of the long wait for a new cap update.

[razerfingers]

Lol never have problems being booted as a bear. But i'm a level 70

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

[Dohvakiian]

76 o_O

[Caiahar]

There is no bug. Crit was lowered in all classes and with each class being able to crit at levels 90+ to now being lowered 30-40 less, your damage will be reduced. It will cause you to work more as a team in PvE, which is how it should be. Those of us (very few) who were around pre-elixirs had to be much more patient. I highly doubt a 3x elixir run will be slowed that much.

Time for people to be referred back to the "old guides" and refresh how to play their classes properly.

I knew reading Physiologics Bird guide 2/1 times a week would pay off ONE day!!
But I'm still noob at bird :)

[billybob1]

im happy with pve!!! raining pinks on me in slayer!

[Caiahar]

im happy with pve!!! raining pinks on me in slayer!

Hehe maybe ill get some off billy...I knew being friends with him would pay off soem day.
P.S: DONT TELL BILLY I SAID THAT!! ;)

[Sheugokin]

Lol....Billy what ya using? Daily Combo, Shamrock and Big Luck? I want that gear :(

Anyone seen anything cool yet?

[billybob1]

so far i been using shamrock thrasher big luck n xp blessing

[Schnitzel]

Oh and i know this is off topic but does anyone know a good wifi service:i currently have at&t wifi(their "good "router) but it just sucks.

Im open to suggestions
Xfinity? (At&t's rival :D)

[javier995]

I have a suggestion, make the rhino farts have a deeper sound so they go along with the laugh and cry.

[Roberto077]

Xfinity? (At&t's rival :D)

I prefer Verizon.

[OverkillED]

Yeah Verizon is da bes.

[Swede]

If fights are still over too fast in PvP, we could lower the damage of everyone (just in PvP) by a set percentage, say 10%.

[Ks_Leon]

If fights are still over too fast in PvP, we could lower the damage of everyone (just in PvP) by a set percentage, say 10%.

yeah..thats what i wanted...lower the damage or increase the HP point in PvP only.Can you make the skill only nerf on PvP but not in PvE?Its help many PvE'er..And also get rid those orb from DM or make a safe line where spawner cannot enter it...but just make its available only on CTF maps ...:)

[CrimsonTider]

If fights are still over too fast in PvP, we could lower the damage of everyone (just in PvP) by a set percentage, say 10%.

If you could do this plus either increase HP or armor, it would be perfect. And as KS stated, the orbs aren't working. Players can still be targeted and still leads to problems with spawning. Can the "Invulnerability" code from PvE not be imported to PvP where it lasts only 3 seconds and ONLY occurs when you spawn and not revived. It works in PvE not sure why it can't be coded in for PvP to work the same way.

Thank you for your response.

[tHelonestud]

If fights are still over too fast in PvP, we could lower the damage of everyone (just in PvP) by a set percentage, say 10%.
I would do a bit more, probably around 25%
Also in all game play, I would nerf the dodge on all sets 51 and above. And the damage on the 71-75 scythes and 56-60 maces
As well as nerfing bear evade and rage(the 90 damage to 50 should be fine)

[Swede]

"Players can still be targeted and still leads to problems with spawning. "

Can someone give a detailed explanation what you guys experience now, when it breaks?

I can't implement it the same way we do in AL because of some larger differences between the systems in the two games, and the fact that players can revive each other in PL.

[tHelonestud]

"Players can still be targeted and still leads to problems with spawning. "

Can someone give a detailed explanation what you guys experience now, when it breaks?

I can't implement it the same way we do in AL because of some larger differences between the systems in the two games, and the fact that players can revive each other in PL.
when the orb is on you, you can't use spells or take damage, but stuns and freezing and roots still affect you and the opponent can target you the same as normal, the only difference is immunity to actual damage and inability to cast spells. Honestly if you could change it back to casting spells, but only make the orb work in ctf spawn rooms it would work perfect.
Hopefully that should clarify, thanks for the care.

[Nihiliste]

I agree, the orb should only be in the CTF Spawn Room and not in DM or when you get revived.

[Rushorgtfo]

1) the orb should only be on during Ctf to stop spawning. The orb should definitely not be used after being revived, YOU CHOOSE to accept revive seeing people around you shouldn't expect to live.

2) Pvp end game is way to unbalanced bears do way to much damadge for the amount of tanking they can do. More HP across the boards should be implemented, and damadge should be nerfed 15% on bears 10% on Mage and bird because birds are KILLING classes mages are support but can still pack a punch and bears TANK they shouldn't be killing more than a bird or a Mage.

3) if you guys haven't noticed 500 has been the default health across the boards since 56 cap. We need a real balance.

[Fusionstrike]

"Players can still be targeted and still leads to problems with spawning. "

Can someone give a detailed explanation what you guys experience now, when it breaks?

I can't implement it the same way we do in AL because of some larger differences between the systems in the two games, and the fact that players can revive each other in PL.

I'll give it a shot from all the comments I've read here.

What happened before orb:
Player would spawn but immediately be killed by waiting opponents. There was nothing he could do because he didn't have time to get his defenses up and/or use any attacks before immediately dying again.

What happens now with orb:
Player no longer dies instantly (because he can't take any damage with orb on) but is prevented from using any defensive buffs or attacks to fight off the waiting opponents. So the opponents just stand there waiting for the orb to disappear and slaughter the player as before. The only difference is that there's now a 3 second wait before the carnage begins. And the player can't run away either because opponents can just root/hold/etc even with orb on.

The whole point of the orb was to give the respawning player a grace period to get back in the action. But not being able to buff or run away from opponents makes this time meaningless: there's nothing useful the player can do to fend off impending slaughter.

The orb idea would be more effective if players could do any of the following while orb is on:
1. Use defensive skills/buffs/etc (i.e. be ready for impending combat)
2. Attack opponents (i.e. create a disincentive for opponents to hang around spawn point)
3. Escape by being immune to stun/hold/etc

Personally, I would choose to make the respawned player have all of the above advantages with orb on. This would make it utterly stupid for opponents to hang around spawn (since they'd be sitting ducks) which is exactly what this whole thing was supposed to do in the first place.

[XghostzX]

If fights are still over too fast in PvP, we could lower the damage of everyone (just in PvP) by a set percentage, say 10%.

Yes, as well as an increase in armor and HP

[angeldawn]

For the orb to be effective, you need to be able to buff and opponent should not be able to target you. You should not be able to be stunned, rooted, iced, beckoned etc.

I like that it works on revive also as long as you can buff and not be targeted so you have a chance to survive.

Many ppl are forgetting that spawning can happen in PVP maps as well as CTF maps so the orb is needed in both. I understand a lot of ppl only play forest fight but it is not the only PVP map that exists.

I don't think that damage should be reduced. Armor needs to be increased and it will benefit both PVP and PVE.

[Extreme]

For the orb to be effective, you need to be able to buff and opponent should not be able to target you. You should not be able to be stunned, rooted, iced, beckoned etc.

I like that it works on revive also as long as you can buff and not be targeted so you have a chance to survive.

Many ppl are forgetting that spawning can happen in PVP maps as well as CTF maps so the orb is needed in both. I understand a lot of ppl only play forest fight but it is not the only PVP map that exists.

I don't think that damage should be reduced. Armor needs to be increased and it will benefit both PVP and PVE.

True, I just have a bit problem with orb, I can't seem to FFA with it on, I don't know what ya guys will do to it but IMO its not really necessary in PvP.

[Deathofan]

In the way, can you make the New items (L75 Dex helm, dragonspine bows, dragonspine sword, gemmed dragonbone helm, Int helm, *no int weapon*) have a set bonus with it's related-stat gear. Kinda like mixing the new dragon bow with a swift helm and armor to have similar stats just as it would with a swift recurve set.

[Zapoke]

If fights are still over too fast in PvP, we could lower the damage of everyone (just in PvP) by a set percentage, say 10%.

An excellent start, but if damage is only lowered by that amount across the board, will it help? I'm not so sure lets look at a few numbers for a second:

My 76 bird (with Elite bow, pure dex, dragon ring, and angel armor/helm) hits about 300-500 (for arrow abilities) depending on the opponent. The auto attacks sit at 150-230. If there's only a 10% decrease, then the numbers will still be around here:
270-450 for the arrow abilities
135-225 for auto attacks

Is that enough of a decrease when we're talking about 400-800 health (realistically)? A boast to defense, in my opinion, along with the damage decrease is needed to make it any better.

[Waug]

"Players can still be targeted and still leads to problems with spawning. "

Can someone give a detailed explanation what you guys experience now, when it breaks?
.

when someone spwn, he get that 3sec orb and he can't use his skills while opponent can not only target him but also debuff, stun, root him during this 3 sec also that means the damage doesn't work on orb but the procs of the skills works, for example if it is pull of bear, it wont do any damage but the orb get pulled.

suggesion : fix this bug and make it in a way that we can buff but can't attact other during this 3 sec within from orb.

[Waug]

If fights are still over too fast in PvP, we could lower the damage of everyone (just in PvP) by a set percentage, say 10%.

it may work but then separately need to nerf +dmg buffs of mages and bears, they got crazy +dmg buffs +45 for mages and +90dmg for bears atm.

since bird is not tanking class nerfing its dodge was indeed good decision similarly mages and bears are not this much high damaging class that shold be nerf, not only I saying this, if u devs read carefully the feedback provided by playes in different threads, this is common suggestion provided by us.

Also one another very common suggestion is to nerf dodge of str sets if its not possible increase the base point required to equip gears specially at endgame.

[Roberto077]

Maybe lower damage in PvP by 25% and increase health by 25%

[Gragorak]

I believe that 25% damage decrease & health increase (= 50% increase in survivability) would fix a lot of problems in end game, but lower pvp levels definitely don't need that drastic change. Damage decrease & health increase should be scaled per level, so that changes would be focused on levels 65+.

Here's what I've been thinking:



Level x: y% damage decrease & health increase

Level 20: 1%
Level 25: 2%
Level 30: 3%
Level 35: 4%
Level 40: 5%
Level 45: 6%
Level 50: 7%
Level 55: 8%
Level 60: 9%
Level 65: 15%
Level 66: 16%
Level 67: 17%
Level 68: 18%
Level 69: 19%
Level 70: 20%
Level 71: 21%
Level 72: 22%
Level 73: 23%
Level 74: 24%
Level 75: 25%
Level 76: 25%
Or alternatively, only levels 65+ could be affected.

Edit: rhinos don't need any changes. Their damage is low enough now, and they are tanky enough too.

[Crashy]

"Players can still be targeted and still leads to problems with spawning. "

Can someone give a detailed explanation what you guys experience now, when it breaks?

I can't implement it the same way we do in AL because of some larger differences between the systems in the two games, and the fact that players can revive each other in PL.
Well having the orb for the 3 second in revive or spawn room makes us a sitting target.
We can't shoot, while they r spamming,stunning,rooting us.
Maybe just having this feature in spawn room where u can shoot still for the 3 second in spawn room.
It maybe having it in revive and spawn room for maybe 1-2 second where u an actually shoot.
This way u cud atleast buff and take 1/2 shots at the opponent spawning u when u take the revive and have a chance in making a move.

[Roberto077]

I still think the revive cool down should be increased by 10-15 seconds.

[Waug]

Maybe lower damage in PvP by 25% and increase health by 25%

sorry but these kinda huge changes would make few classes nearly invinsible.

[Anigrazas]

The level 35 bear and rhino packs are beatable but the level 40 packs arent. They have way more damage and alot more armor then anything equip in the level 35-40 range. Maby nerf them a little. I would say about a 20 armor reduction but keep the dodge:)

[Roberto077]

sorry but these kinda huge changes would make few classes nearly invinsible.

True, I like Grag's suggestion much better.

[angeldawn]

Here's what I've been thinking:


Level x: y% damage decrease & health increase
Level 20: 1%
Level 25: 2%
Level 30: 3%
Level 35: 4%
Level 40: 5%
Level 45: 6%
Level 50: 7%
Level 55: 8%
Level 60: 9%
Level 65: 15%
Level 66: 16%
Level 67: 17%
Level 68: 18%
Level 69: 19%
Level 70: 20%
Level 71: 21%
Level 72: 22%
Level 73: 23%
Level 74: 24%
Level 75: 25%
Level 76: 25%
.

Edit.

Spread sheet on iPad was screwy sorry

This would need some work. I don't think it is the optimal solution.

Lvl 76 set max damage 389. 25% reduction new max damage is 292

Lvl 70 set max damage 371. 20% reduction new max damage is 297


A lvl 70 shouldn't have more damage than a 76!!

[Itoopeo]

Here's what I've been thinking:


Level x: y% damage decrease & health increase
Level 20: 1%
Level 25: 2%
Level 30: 3%
Level 35: 4%
Level 40: 5%
Level 45: 6%
Level 50: 7%
Level 55: 8%
Level 60: 9%
Level 65: 15%
Level 66: 16%
Level 67: 17%
Level 68: 18%
Level 69: 19%
Level 70: 20%
Level 71: 21%
Level 72: 22%
Level 73: 23%
Level 74: 24%
Level 75: 25%
Level 76: 25%
.

Edit.

Spread sheet on iPad was screwy sorry

This would need some work. I don't think it is the optimal solution.

Lvl 76 set max damage 389. 25% reduction new max damage is 292

Lvl 70 set max damage 371. 20% reduction new max damage is 297


A lvl 70 shouldn't have more damage than a 76!!

Difference should be like 10-15 dmg.

And elite bows can make 500+ damage with right equip, while 71 flying about 360-400