Rogue mana, PvP.

[Bless]

In pvp, rogues mana lacks, face it, you cant even do 3 pierce-aim-nox combos without running out of mana, and no mana means rogue will die within 10seconds.

Two ideas:

1. Combat Medic: Each combat medic pack could heal 5% mana. This wouldnt be OP because its only 5% per pack, (15% per use - with extra pack upgrade). It would help and it is used commonly in PvP. Supported by almost every pack user.

2. The Mythic bow proc to be revised. The proc atm isnt very useful (sinister bow proc is way better, the mythi bow stun snare is weak, make it like 80% slowness and ill be impressed) and it has an uber rare chance of proccing. The proc could be changed to "heal 50% of the max mana". The proc like the architect pylon has. Very useful proc.

The rogue class DESERVES a skill that heals mana. Why? Every other class can heal mana (vengeful blood and lifegiver) and I believe, since rogues really lack mana this expansion, these two suggestions would help.

Criticise if you want, devs will most likely implement something if they see the whole communitys input...and no this isnt that long winded post with fancy numbers and a wall of text, but valid suggestion.

[Derezzzed]

I'm a rouge and I defiantly agree with this and would love to see it but.... All I can see is other classes complaining about rouges being more OP

[Bless]

I'm a rouge and I defiantly agree with this and would love to see it but.... All I can see is other classes complaining about rouges being more OP I dont understand how its OP....warrior and mage have mana heal skills too, so they cant say its OP. A warrior has unlimited mana, isnt that useful?

[Player24]

I dont understand how its OP....warrior and mage have mana heal skills too, so they cant say its OP. A warrior has unlimited mana, isnt that useful?

Has he said he is a rouge. He isn't saying its over poweres.
I am a rouge and neither am I saying its op.
I would like to see it happen to but they give you skill points for a reason. There is gear that has int+ you try purchasing that.
Other then this i dont think they will change this class for more mana

[Derezzzed]

I dont understand how its OP....warrior and mage have mana heal skills too, so they cant say its OP. A warrior has unlimited mana, isnt that useful?


Has he said he is a rouge. He isn't saying its over poweres.
I am a rouge and neither am I saying its op.
I would like to see it happen to but they give you skill points for a reason. There is gear that has int+ you try purchasing that.
Other then this i dont think they will change this class for more mana

I did say it was overpowered :$ here's my reasoning as you know this game has PVE and PVP now for PVE this would be fine but in PVP it wouldn't be, rouges have high dmg/dps, high crit, medium armour & hp our only real weakness is our mana consumption, mages weakness is there hp and warriors is there damage rate and as soon as rouges can heal hp & mana with packs (even 15%) that means we don't really have a weakness nd throws the balance of pvp off and once that happens I bet you there would be 28618362926 complaint threads about it, again I'll state that I am a rouge and would LOVE to see it happen but it probably never will happen because of PVP :/

& I'm not trying to criticize in any way I'm just looking at "both sides of the coin"

[Energizeric]

How about instead you spec some more mana. How about some INT passives?

Rogues run out of mana because most rogues have a build that lacks mana. But you can make that build however you want it to be. If you want more mana, then alter your build to make it so.

[Soundlesskill]

I used lunar pendant for a while and lost about 20 dmg from fang to lunar. My mana seemed to be nothing but hat it was like in season 4. I definitely don't think it's fair either that in this season.

Warrs HP, DMG, DPS & mana got higher
Smurfs HP, ARMOR, DMG, DPS and mana go higher
Rouges HP, DMG, DPS............. We didn't get more than 15 or so useless points, that isn't even enough to get another skill.

HOWEVER

Some rouges also needs to learn to time and save skills, don't spam them.

[Bless]

How about instead you spec some more mana. How about some INT passives?

Rogues run out of mana because most rogues have a build that lacks mana. But you can make that build however you want it to be. If you want more mana, then alter your build to make it so. I dont want to keep havig to do these "shortcuts" to my build, warriors dont, they can go full str without worrying much

Mana heals should already be here...why do the other classes have it.

And I hate using mana pets

And were the only class that runs for the mana orbs like a monkey...

[Alhuntrazeck]

If you buff the packs, nerf the cooldown time. No class should have the best of both worlds :p

[Cero]

Rogue - mana problem
Warrior - dmg
Sorc - crit

[Alrisaia]

In pvp, rogues mana lacks, face it, you cant even do 3 pierce-aim-nox combos without running out of mana, and no mana means rogue will die within 10seconds.

Two ideas:

1. Combat Medic: Each combat medic pack could heal 5% mana. This wouldnt be OP because its only 5% per pack, (15% per use - with extra pack upgrade). It would help and it is used commonly in PvP. Supported by almost every pack user.

2. The Mythic bow proc to be revised. The proc atm isnt very useful (sinister bow proc is way better, the mythi bow stun snare is weak, make it like 80% slowness and ill be impressed) and it has an uber rare chance of proccing. The proc could be changed to "heal 50% of the max mana". The proc like the architect pylon has. Very useful proc.

The rogue class DESERVES a skill that heals mana. Why? Every other class can heal mana (vengeful blood and lifegiver) and I believe, since rogues really lack mana this expansion, these two suggestions would help.

Criticise if you want, devs will most likely implement something if they see the whole communitys input...and no this isnt that long winded post with fancy numbers and a wall of text, but valid suggestion.

i went farming last night and even in pve this is true. i burned through 4k mana pots and only 1k health...

[Cero]

In pvp, rogues mana lacks, face it, you cant even do 3 pierce-aim-nox combos without running out of mana, and no mana means rogue will die within 10seconds.

Two ideas:

1. Combat Medic: Each combat medic pack could heal 5% mana. This wouldnt be OP because its only 5% per pack, (15% per use - with extra pack upgrade). It would help and it is used commonly in PvP. Supported by almost every pack user.

2. The Mythic bow proc to be revised. The proc atm isnt very useful (sinister bow proc is way better, the mythi bow stun snare is weak, make it like 80% slowness and ill be impressed) and it has an uber rare chance of proccing. The proc could be changed to "heal 50% of the max mana". The proc like the architect pylon has. Very useful proc.

The rogue class DESERVES a skill that heals mana. Why? Every other class can heal mana (vengeful blood and lifegiver) and I believe, since rogues really lack mana this expansion, these two suggestions would help.

Criticise if you want, devs will most likely implement something if they see the whole communitys input...and no this isnt that long winded post with fancy numbers and a wall of text, but valid suggestion.

i went farming last night and even in pve this is true. i burned through 4k mana pots and only 1k health...


Burn tons of pots - rogue
Dies instantly - less pots - sorc

lol

[Alrisaia]

Burn tons of pots - rogue
Dies instantly - burns less pots - sorc

lol
lol so true

[GoodSyntax]

One would think that with the DMG nerfing this that Rogues have handled this season, there would have been a giveback of some form. Surprisingly, I only saw a few threads that complained about this nerf, so it was taken rather gracefully.

The problem with the nerfing is that it takes more mana to kill things, both PvP and PvE. As if Rogues weren't mana starved enough in previous seasons, it just seems that I am burning pots at a more alarming rate in PvE and in PvP, it seems I am always looking for a mana heal.

Unfortunately, I am resisting any changes to my attack-style because if your party cannot count on the Rogues to be the high damage dealers, then runs slow down and are not as efficient for those buying or on elixirs. Maybe, if we could get a tiny bit of mana per DEX point, that would help offset the loss in DMG so it doesn't feel like I am blowing through so much mana to kill things.

[Bless]

If you buff the packs Not even a buff, all the other classes have it, we deserve it... Im baffled how it wasnt implimented in season 2, nerf the cooldown time. No class should have the best of both worlds Mages do with their mana and HP heals :P :p

Before the damage nerf, we would be killed before we ran out of mana or we would use way less mana because of skill mana cost. But after the damage nerf, we need more shots to kill enemies and the mana was buffed only +100 since last season.

My pack heal idea is in no way OP because it heals 15% mana in one charged use - thats just 2 aimed shots lmao...

CD wouldnt be a problem because the warriors mana source (vengeful blood) is 25secs and it could potentially heal 100% of the mana (as opposed to 15% in my suggestion) in 4shots by a rogue/mage. The mages mana heal cd is also 15secs.

[GoodSyntax]

I especially notice the DMG nerf/mana cost against the bigger, heavily armored guys in Undim Fields.

The guys in the normal map are essentially the same as Elite Jarl, which is crazy as it takes four skill rotations to kill them, so I am spamming mana pots now more that I ever have, with the possible exception of Elite Kraken and Elite Nordr maps from last season.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Before the damage nerf, we would be killed before we ran out of mana or we would use way less mana because of skill mana cost. But after the damage nerf, we need more shots to kill enemies and the mana was buffed only +100 since last season.

My pack heal idea is in no way OP because it heals 15% mana in one charged use - thats just 2 aimed shots lmao...

CD wouldnt be a problem because the warriors mana source (vengeful blood) is 25secs and it could potentially heal 100% of the mana (as opposed to 15% in my suggestion) in 4shots by a rogue/mage. The mages mana heal cd is also 15secs.

Waaaaait a second...have you played a mage? In no way does their mana healing affect themselves (well, maybe a meager 10%). In that respect, a mage mana healing affects the entire party except the mage himself!

Before you argue that mages cant run out of mana fast enough, well, there's plenty of times ive had to pot in elites and, well maybe not so arguable in PvP, in PvP, wait for regen or rarely run to the pack.

[cindersx]

Yeah umm.. NO. -1 for this from me. Sorry if I sound mean but this has no point. You can already one shot in pvp so not much of a need for more mana. And from earlier posts, no way should a class be the best in both pve and pvp. This is just not a good suggestion. And btw, mages lifegiver doesnt really give a good amount of mana to mages themselves.

[Soundlesskill]

Woaaah 1 combo = 50% mana gone.

Sucks

[Bless]

Before the damage nerf, we would be killed before we ran out of mana or we would use way less mana because of skill mana cost. But after the damage nerf, we need more shots to kill enemies and the mana was buffed only +100 since last season.

My pack heal idea is in no way OP because it heals 15% mana in one charged use - thats just 2 aimed shots lmao...

CD wouldnt be a problem because the warriors mana source (vengeful blood) is 25secs and it could potentially heal 100% of the mana (as opposed to 15% in my suggestion) in 4shots by a rogue/mage. The mages mana heal cd is also 15secs.

Waaaaait a second...have you played a mage? In no way does their mana healing affect themselves (well, maybe a meager 10%). In that respect, a mage mana healing affects the entire party except the mage himself!

Before you argue that mages cant run out of mana fast enough, well, there's plenty of times ive had to pot in elites and, well maybe not so arguable in PvP, in PvP, wait for regen or rarely run to the pack. Mages will ALWAYS die before they run out of 5k mana. And yeh i have a L16 mage, im familiar with the skills...heals about 20% mana.

But you realise that heal heals like 1.2k mana while a rogue has 1.4k mana pool, this would fill their mana bar but since a mage has 5k mana, their mana % is healed less - still 1.2k heals.

And a rogue with malison has a mana regen of 1 or 2, so regening is a waste of time...

[Energizeric]

I dont want to keep havig to do these "shortcuts" to my build, warriors dont, they can go full str without worrying much

Mana heals should already be here...why do the other classes have it.

And I hate using mana pets

And were the only class that runs for the mana orbs like a monkey...

Sorcerers have to spec some STR, and even if we go full INT then we must use some STR passives (I use 5/5 STR passive). So I don't think it's unreasonable to say that rogues should do the same. Yes, it means giving up something. But it doesn't have to be damage. You can give up some crit passive points and put those into INT instead.

Please do realize that rogues have an advantage that no other class has:

For warriors, their main stat STR counts towards health & damage (2 items)

For sorcerers, their main stat INT counts towards mana & damage (2 items)

For rogues, their main stat DEX counts towards dodge, crit & damage (3 items)

So your main stat boosts your abilities more than other classes.

[Bless]

Yeah umm.. NO. -1 for this from me. Sorry if I sound mean but this has no point. You can already one shot in pvp so not much of a need for more mana. And from earlier posts, no way should a class be the best in both pve and pvp. This is just not a good suggestion. And btw, mages lifegiver doesnt really give a good amount of mana to mages themselves.

1. The rogues dont 1 shot after dmg nerf...get facts right.

2. Rogue isnt the best in pvp nor pve

3. heals about 20% mana for the mage itself

But you realise that heal heals like 1.2k mana while a rogue has 1.4k mana pool, this would fill the rogues mana bar to full but since a mage has 5k mana pool, their mana % is healed less - still 1.2k heals.

4. Ok so, how does this suggestion have no point? Rogues run out of mana in 3 combos and they have no mana replenishing skill unlike the other classes. Should we just nerf all the other classes mana? No just buff the rogues Medics to give 5% mana in each one...

5. Not a good suggetion? Why? No evidence to support..sorry I will try best to get this implemented since rogues have been deprived this season: Dmg nerf, way too much mana cost as opposed to the mana pool increase we have this season (+100), etc etc I could go on but this annoys me even more

[Youngmurda]

1. The rogues dont 1 shot after dmg nerf...get facts right.

2. Rogue isnt the best in pvp nor pve

3. heals about 20% mana for the mage itself

But you realise that heal heals like 1.2k mana while a rogue has 1.4k mana pool, this would fill the rogues mana bar to full but since a mage has 5k mana pool, their mana % is healed less - still 1.2k heals.

4. Ok so, how does this suggestion have no point? Rogues run out of mana in 3 combos and they have no mana replenishing skill unlike the other classes. Should we just nerf all the other classes mana? No just buff the rogues Medics to give 5% mana in each one...

5. Not a good suggetion? Why? No evidence to support..sorry I will try best to get this implemented since rogues have been deprived this season: Dmg nerf, way too much mana cost as opposed to the mana pool increase we have this season (+100), etc etc I could go on but this annoys me even more

^^ this.

[Bless]

I dont want to keep havig to do these "shortcuts" to my build, warriors dont, they can go full str without worrying much

Mana heals should already be here...why do the other classes have it.

And I hate using mana pets

And were the only class that runs for the mana orbs like a monkey...

Sorcerers have to spec some STR, and even if we go full INT then we must use some STR passives (I use 5/5 STR passive). So I don't think it's unreasonable to say that rogues should do the same. Yes, it means giving up something. But it doesn't have to be damage. You can give up some crit passive points and put those into INT instead.
Valid point, easily countered though:A mage needs to max out STR & INT passives whilst a rogue needs to max out 3 INT, DEX & STR...see that huge advantage? We sacrifice 5 more skill points in passives than mages. Dex passive doesnt do much to a mage but for a rogue, int and str passives are a must since we dont have 5k mana or 5k hp.

Please do realize that rogues have an advantage that no other class has:

For warriors, their main stat STR counts towards health & damage (2 items)

For sorcerers, their main stat INT counts towards mana & damage (2 items)

For rogues, their main stat DEX counts towards dodge, crit & damage (3 items)
Thats incorrect, a rogue doesnt have 3. Since we dont have the best dmg, it doesnt matter anyways if we have dmg too. You can say just 2 attributal advantages of DEX because mages have 30 more dmg than us...And what you didnt point out was that crit and dodge are 100% luck factors, this being said, crit and dodge arent 100% effective as opposed to mana or hp or dmg from mage.

So your main stat boosts your abilities more than other classes. In other words, we only have 2 advantages just like other classes. In bold

[moot]

Yeah rogue's dmg is a lower than mage but lets see in practice in pve or pvp, rogue's auto attack dmg is equal if not a little bit more than mage's skills dmg.

[Bless]

Yeah rogue's dmg is a lower than mage but lets see in practice in pve or pvp, rogue's auto attack dmg is equal if not a little bit more than mage's skills dmg. Youre serious? Youre comparing auto attacks...

The topic is mana let t stay there.

[moot]

Just relate it to mana consumption by yourself duh...

Mage have to use more skills than rogue in order to produce the same amount of dmg (although mage's dmg is higher than rogue). Mage also have longer cd. So big mana pool is not that benefitial for mage. My english is not good sorry.

[Bless]

Just relate it to mana consumption by yourself duh...

Mage have to use more skills than rogue in order to produce the same amount of dmg (although mage's dmg is higher than rogue). Mage also have longer cd. So big mana pool is not that benefitial for mage. My english is not good sorry. Theres a reason for all this...to make calsses balanced. If the mage had 2sec CDs then it would be OP..I am not complaining about dmg, rogues need a mana replenishing skill

[Energizeric]

2. Rogue isnt the best in pvp nor pve

Have you had a look at the kills leaderboards for both PvP and PvE?

Whenever we put together a party to run elites, the big concern is always if we have a good rogue. A warrior is nice, but if we don't have one we can manage in some elite dungeons and in arena. A mage is nice to have if you have big mobs, but again not necessary, and in some dungeons like arena completely unnecessary. Rogues are necessary anywhere that you want to kill a boss, and that is everywhere you farm because unless you kill the boss you don't get any loot! They are also the only class that can solo elite dungeons, so they don't even need to find a party to run elites, they can just do it by themselves.

And last time I checked Rogues had 24 or the top 25 spots on the PvP kills leaderboard. So yes they are by far the most dominant in PvP (and the same can be argued for PvE).

[cindersx]

2. Rogue isnt the best in pvp nor pve


Have you had a look at the kills leaderboards for both PvP and PvE?

Whenever we put together a party to run elites, the big concern is always if we have a good rogue. A warrior is nice, but if we don't have one we can manage in some elite dungeons and in arena. A mage is nice to have if you have big mobs, but again not necessary, and in some dungeons like arena completely unnecessary. Rogues are necessary anywhere that you want to kill a boss, and that is everywhere you farm because unless you kill the boss you don't get any loot! They are also the only class that can solo elite dungeons, so they don't even need to find a party to run elites, they can just do it by themselves.

And last time I checked Rogues had 24 or the top 25 spots on the PvP kills leaderboard. So yes they are by far the most dominant in PvP (and the same can be argued for PvE).

Ha, now you get your facts straight Bird.

[GoodSyntax]

Rogue
+Kills fast
+Decent armor
+Good HP pool

-No shielding ability
-Mana consumption!!!
-Easily one hit by bosses


Warrior
+Lots of armor
+Lots of HP
+Shielding and healing

-Low DMG
-Long skill cooldown

Sorcerer
+Great crowd control
+Highest DMG in game
+Shielding and healing

-Low armor
-Long skill cooldown
-Low HP pool

[cindersx]

Rogue
+Kills fast
+Decent armor
+Good HP pool

-No shielding ability
-Mana consumption!!!
-Easily one hit by bosses


Warrior
+Lots of armor
+Lots of HP
+Shielding and healing

-Low DMG
-Long skill cooldown

Sorcerer
+Great crowd control
+Highest DMG in game
+Shielding and healing

-Low armor
-Long skill cooldown
-Low HP pool

I'm sorry but the dodge rogues have can save you from boss fights.

[GoodSyntax]

That depends on your spec.

Sure, if you have Razor and Mali, you could get to about 70% Dodge, but in my experience, I rarely dodge anything in PvP or PvE, except from trash mobs.

I don't ever dodge Grimnr attacks....ever.

[Natrich]

Your skills have 2 second cooldowns, of course you're going to run out of mana pretty quickly.

The easiest fix, which you would like even less, would be to increase all your cooldowns.

[GoodSyntax]

Good point, but if you take away the Rogue's ability to kill quickly, then what good would this class serve? They can't tank, no crowd control, limited party heal capability and basically no support at all.

[Theholyangel]

Stop complaining and just make it so you can pvp without worrying about it, its stated in all the posts here. Warriors have HP but long cd on skills and low dmg. Smurfs are well balanced but squishy, rogues are Op with low cd. Of course you kill mana fast, stop complaining, would you rather wait 4 seconds for a aimed shot?

1 aimed shot can do 1.7-3k crits every 2 seconds, stop complaining about mana and dmg, rogues are OP enough, go play on a smurf or a warrior and fight a maxed rogue that will never run out of mana and tell me how far you get with that.

[Alfai]

This is a critical issue that we rogue are facing this season.before all the flaming starts etc do understand whr such request came from.a tank n mg nw are coming dmg dealers too n making kills at will.like in pvp ganging is everywhere its like this dmg abilitu just being passed down from the sky and everyone going insane with their murderous thirst.not saying atg whthtr this changes r smart enough to contain the competitive gameplay but its like handing over the murdering weapon to the public not the enforcer (in this case rogue which class is meant to kill).still the request above is notjing op but to bring back balance tho it may not be enough to restore order.

[Alfai]

I simply ask sts also bfore any nerfing buffing to please people at the worlds end let the changes be equal or at least not taking away the core essence of each class to mantain the game format as how it meant to be.coz if such things kept changing without a thorough consideration on all aspects it will soon become just a smashing bashing game that will have a definite end.

[DexterityX]

I like the idea of this thread... but i think the most appropriate fix on mana for rogue should be "reducing of MANA cost for EACH skill for ROGUES" probobly 20%-30% mana reduction of each mana cost on skill

[Cero]

why not use haze or talon that can satisfy the mana thirst?
---it gives low dmg, hp, dex, int, dodge and other.

Ok, but with.mana pet it does solves youre mana problem. The solution is so simple give up on malison and just use it for pve.
Also try to watch iluvataris pvp gameplay. He uses mali and switch for mana pet if he needs mana. Smart guy!

And if devs grant your suggestion, other classes will still disagree because we know that a rogue with mana can kill and will deliver the finishing blow.

If rogues still think that this brings a "balance" you guys are wrong. Look around,
Granting a mana replinish percentage would just allow rogue class to dominate, thats not balanced!
lets see.

just above mage HP
high crits
2nd highest damaging class
just below warriors armor
highest dodge for all class
just above warriors MP
----mana regen ability(?)
O.o who needs sorc or tanks.

[Bless]

2. Rogue isnt the best in pvp nor pve

Have you had a look at the kills leaderboards for both PvP and PvE?

Whenever we put together a party to run elites, the big concern is always if we have a good rogue. A warrior is nice, but if we don't have one we can manage in some elite dungeons and in arena. A mage is nice to have if you have big mobs, but again not necessary, and in some dungeons like arena completely unnecessary. Rogues are necessary anywhere that you want to kill a boss, and that is everywhere you farm because unless you kill the boss you don't get any loot! They are also the only class that can solo elite dungeons, so they don't even need to find a party to run elites, they can just do it by themselves.

And last time I checked Rogues had 24 or the top 25 spots on the PvP kills leaderboard. So yes they are by far the most dominant in PvP (and the same can be argued for PvE). I dont like being the LB quote thrown around...Almost every timed elite run has a mage...and we all know that the pvp lbs for mages were messed up at Seasons 2,3 because they were horribly OP. Devs dont reset kills, thats why yall are thinking rogues dominate lb..

Man, in your other thread Falmear did like 3 posts to solo elites, beating recs by mage only teams, check it out

[Bless]

Stop complaining and just make it so you can pvp without worrying about it, its stated in all the posts here. Warriors have HP but long cd on skills and low dmg. Smurfs are well balanced but squishy, rogues are Op with low cd. Of course you kill mana fast, stop complaining, would you rather wait 4 seconds for a aimed shot?

1 aimed shot can do 1.7-3k crits every 2 seconds, stop complaining about mana and dmg, rogues are OP enough, go play on a smurf or a warrior and fight a maxed rogue that will never run out of mana and tell me how far you get with that. No. You are a full mythic maul warrior with glacian, dont tell me you cant kill a rogue.

And I wont take your post into account, because you have a personal grudge against me, the kid who always gets his way. Please dont post this overpowered rogue nonsense because you can dominate with a maul

[Bless]

why not use haze or talon that can satisfy the mana thirst?
---it gives low dmg, hp, dex, int, dodge and other. Nah, if we use a mana pet, we would have like under 350 dmg. I dont see why rogue have to sacrifice stats to get mana replenish. Other classes dont

Ok, but with.mana pet it does solves youre mana problem. The solution is so simple give up on malison and just use it for pve.
Also try to watch iluvataris pvp gameplay. He uses mali and switch for mana pet if he needs mana. Smart guy! Again, no. I feel like a a flippin monkey everytime I try to regen for mana. Why do we have mana issues when others dont - right after a dmg nerf.

And if devs grant your suggestion, other classes will still disagree because we know that a rogue with mana can kill and will deliver the finishing blow. 15% mana cant even fire 2 aimed shots...

If rogues still think that this brings a "balance" you guys are wrong. Look around,
Granting a mana replinish percentage would just allow rogue class to dominate, thats not balanced! 15% mana = 1 aimed shot
lets see.

just above mage HP If I equip haze/talon, I have less hp than sorc...
high crits This is our speciality
2nd highest damaging class Were supposed to be #1 damaging class. If I had 400 dmg, i wouldnt complain about mana
just below warriors armor 650 armor less*
highest dodge for all class This is our speciality
just above warriors MP Warriors never run outta mana with VB
----mana regen ability(?)
O.o who needs sorc or tanks. Again I said 5% every pack = 15% mana per heal.

Thats not much, compared to infinite mana regen of warrior.



@Theananchy Different classes have different CDs for a reason, here ill spell it out for you = THEYRE HIGH CD CUZ THEYD BE OP WITH 5SEC CD, DEVS ARE CLEARLY THROWING THIS FACT IN YOUR FACES

[kharmel]

Before the damage nerf, we would be killed before we ran out of mana or we would use way less mana because of skill mana cost. But after the damage nerf, we need more shots to kill enemies and the mana was buffed only +100 since last season.

My pack heal idea is in no way OP because it heals 15% mana in one charged use - thats just 2 aimed shots lmao...

CD wouldnt be a problem because the warriors mana source (vengeful blood) is 25secs and it could potentially heal 100% of the mana (as opposed to 15% in my suggestion) in 4shots by a rogue/mage. The mages mana heal cd is also 15secs.

I think i have suggested this idea on some other thread. Forget about what topic is that. Im not posting on behalf of a rougue coz im a rougue, but if they imposed damage nerf(especially in pvp) ,they should compensate it, and which is MANA. Its for all class,not for one(not being biased). Damage nerf= more skills used=more mana output thus either decrease mana usage or add mana regen skills even though a very small portion of our health packs would suffice.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114212-The-N-amp-B-s-of-AL

[Cero]

why not use haze or talon that can satisfy the mana thirst?
---it gives low dmg, hp, dex, int, dodge and other. Nah, if we use a mana pet, we would have like under 350 dmg. I dont see why rogue have to sacrifice stats to get mana replenish. Other classes dont

-some warrior gives up one skill for juggernaut to tank better.
-some sorc gives up heals for another attsck skill to be a nuker instead of support.
if you are talking about sacrificing other classes have been doing it already.

Ok, but with.mana pet it does solves youre mana problem. The solution is so simple give up on malison and just use it for pve.
Also try to watch iluvataris pvp gameplay. He uses mali and switch for mana pet if he needs mana. Smart guy! Again, no. I feel like a a flippin monkey everytime I try to regen for mana. Why do we have mana issues when others dont - right after a dmg nerf.

here: classes have issues.

rogue - mana problem
tank - can hardly kill or ks
sorc -


And if devs grant your suggestion, other classes will still disagree because we know that a rogue with mana can kill and will deliver the finishing blow. 15% mana cant even fire 2 aimed shots...




If rogues still think that this brings a "balance" you guys are wrong. Look around,
Granting a mana replinish percentage would just allow rogue class to dominate, thats not balanced! 15% mana = 1 aimed shot



lets see.

just above mage HP If I equip haze/talon, I have less hp than sorc...
high crits This is our speciality
2nd highest damaging class Were supposed to be #1 damaging class. If I had 400 dmg, i wouldnt complain about mana
just below warriors armor 650 armor less*
highest dodge for all class This is our speciality
just above warriors MP Warriors never run outta mana with VB
----mana regen ability(?)
O.o who needs sorc or tanks. Again I said 5% every pack = 15% mana per heal.

Thats not much, compared to infinite mana regen of warrior.



@Theananchy Different classes have different CDs for a reason, here ill spell it out for you = THEYRE HIGH CD CUZ THEYD BE OP WITH 5SEC CD, DEVS ARE CLEARLY THROWING THIS FACT IN YOUR FACES

Ill also spell out for you.
Restricting rogues mana regen makes the it balance to other class. I dont play rogue class but i ubderstand that with giving a mana regen rogue can pretty much dominates. That is not balance if one is on top. Rogue only concerns for its mana. If not this class would be a skill spammer.
thats the main reason i dont play as rogue.
doesnt it tires you clicking those skills
x-times per second.

I've pvp since S2 or the release date and ive seen many rogues being a killer machine when i mana heal them with my sorc.

[Bless]

Ill also spell out for you.
Restricting rogues mana regen makes the it balance to other class. I dont play rogue class but i ubderstand that with giving a mana regen rogue can pretty much dominates. That is not balance if one is on top. Rogue only concerns for its mana. If not this class would be a skill spammer.
thats the main reason i dont play as rogue.
doesnt it tires you clicking those skills
x-times per second.

I've pvp since S2 or the release date and ive seen many rogues being a killer machine when i mana heal them with my sorc.

yet rogues run out of mana within 3 nox-aim-pierce combos. Tell me this, have you ever played on your mage and experienced running out of 50% mana after just one fight? ofcourse not, thats cuz thats stupidity and plain unfair.

The class' weakness is both hp and mana, not running out of mana in 3 combos. Rogues should atleast get a mana replenish skill.

I would like to see how this plays out:

325 or-so dmg warrior, 800 mana and no VB on a warrior. 1v1 me. Then you tell me how unfair it is :p youll run out of mana within the first minute

I wont stop till this suggestion has been added. Mages cried and freakin cried when they didnt have dmg on the upgraded mythic helm. and in less than 2days it was fixed. and I really dont see how 15% mana heal is unfair, so no, I wont stop.

Also, prior to the nerf of dmg, I didnt complain of mana. Of course, after, we have to use more shots to kill = more mana lost = we run out of mana wayy faster = we need a mana replenish skill!!!

[Theholyangel]

No. You are a full mythic maul warrior with glacian, dont tell me you cant kill a rogue.

And I wont take your post into account, because you have a personal grudge against me, the kid who always gets his way. Please dont post this overpowered rogue nonsense because you can dominate with a maul

^ that sounds like envy to me, go play on a warrior atm with the damage reduction and tell me how it works out vs a good rogue. Its not easy, if rogues get mana back on abilities, its too hard for the other classes. Go learn how to conserve mana and use a rogue before complaining on forums. IF you knew how to use a rogue you wouldn't be here complaining. Maybe your next thread will be "Rogues OP, Nerf".
As well as the grudge thing, no, I believe you envy me. Your the one that takes time out of your day to come bother me and asks for 1v1s. Which, every time, you lose.

[Giuewek]

Wow these complaining are just really stupid why not just choose other classes all I see on these threads are warriors are op mages are op rogues are op just go with the flow complaining not gonna do anything >.>

[Cero]

Ill also spell out for you.
Restricting rogues mana regen makes the it balance to other class. I dont play rogue class but i ubderstand that with giving a mana regen rogue can pretty much dominates. That is not balance if one is on top. Rogue only concerns for its mana. If not this class would be a skill spammer.
thats the main reason i dont play as rogue.
doesnt it tires you clicking those skills
x-times per second.

I've pvp since S2 or the release date and ive seen many rogues being a killer machine when i mana heal them with my sorc.

yet rogues run out of mana within 3 nox-aim-pierce combos. Tell me this, have you ever played on your mage and experienced running out of 50% mana after just one fight? ofcourse not, thats cuz thats stupidity and plain unfair.

The class' weakness is both hp and mana, not running out of mana in 3 combos. Rogues should atleast get a mana replenish skill.

I would like to see how this plays out:

325 or-so dmg warrior, 800 mana and no VB on a warrior. 1v1 me. Then you tell me how unfair it is :p youll run out of mana within the first minute

I wont stop till this suggestion has been added. Mages cried and freakin cried when they didnt have dmg on the upgraded mythic helm. and in less than 2days it was fixed. and I really dont see how 15% mana heal is unfair, so no, I wont stop.

Also, prior to the nerf of dmg, I didnt complain of mana. Of course, after, we have to use more shots to kill = more mana lost = we run out of mana wayy faster = we need a mana replenish skill!!!



Dude, ive seen pockie manage to knock down two different mauler holder 1v1 by just using mana pet.

do you see what that means? pretty simple realy. I bet you already know this but ill tell you. A rogue that has mana supply can kill pretty much everything.

That is why Devs will never grant this mana replinish skill.... i hope(lol)

[Bless]

Wow these complaining are just really stupid why not just choose other classes all I see on these threads are warriors are op mages are op rogues are op just go with the flow complaining not gonna do anything >.> I was suggesting and arguing my points. This came off rude but your post wasn't exactly the Mr. Empathy.


@ theAnanchy I have no reason to envy you, your pvp skill isnt anywhere near good, face it, without the maul and glacian you're toast against people at same gear. You are just very overrated because every time you step into pvp you bring your little group of arcanes or beatriixx - you arent very independant, I saw this at L21 as well and don't deny it. Also, in the 2 1v1s yes you beat me, see I am not afraid to lose kiddo - but I did ask rematch without the maul but you just refused. Sorry, but you have a grudge against me so I wouldn't ever account your opinions in my threads.

[Bless]

Ill also spell out for you.
Restricting rogues mana regen makes the it balance to other class. I dont play rogue class but i ubderstand that with giving a mana regen rogue can pretty much dominates. That is not balance if one is on top. Rogue only concerns for its mana. If not this class would be a skill spammer.
thats the main reason i dont play as rogue.
doesnt it tires you clicking those skills
x-times per second.

I've pvp since S2 or the release date and ive seen many rogues being a killer machine when i mana heal them with my sorc.

yet rogues run out of mana within 3 nox-aim-pierce combos. Tell me this, have you ever played on your mage and experienced running out of 50% mana after just one fight? ofcourse not, thats cuz thats stupidity and plain unfair.

The class' weakness is both hp and mana, not running out of mana in 3 combos. Rogues should atleast get a mana replenish skill.

I would like to see how this plays out:

325 or-so dmg warrior, 800 mana and no VB on a warrior. 1v1 me. Then you tell me how unfair it is :p youll run out of mana within the first minute

I wont stop till this suggestion has been added. Mages cried and freakin cried when they didnt have dmg on the upgraded mythic helm. and in less than 2days it was fixed. and I really dont see how 15% mana heal is unfair, so no, I wont stop.

Also, prior to the nerf of dmg, I didnt complain of mana. Of course, after, we have to use more shots to kill = more mana lost = we run out of mana wayy faster = we need a mana replenish skill!!!



Dude, ive seen pockie manage to knock down two different mauler holder 1v1 by just using mana pet.

do you see what that means? pretty simple realy. I bet you already know this but ill tell you. A rogue that has mana supply can kill pretty much everything.

That is why Devs will never grant this mana replinish skill.... i hope(lol) Ok, I'll try the mana pet option. But I swear if it isn't efficient, I'm bumping this thread.

[Soundlesskill]

Dude, ive seen pockie manage to knock down two different mauler holder 1v1 by just using mana pet.

do you see what that means? pretty simple realy. I bet you already know this but ill tell you. A rogue that has mana supply can kill pretty much everything.

That is why Devs will never grant this mana replinish skill.... i hope(lol)

Yes it's quite easy to take out a warr with mana pet

[Bless]

Yes it's quite easy to take out a warr with mana pet I can kill any norm wars (its done using a special technique) with malison but cant with maul warriors with the same technique :p IK how to use a mana pet against a warrior but you cant change pets in the heat of the moment FFA...oh well lets see what the experiments bear

[Exist]

Bless you're just mad u can't talk as much trash as before in pvp :tongue:

[Bless]

Bless you're just mad u can't talk as much trash as before in pvp :tongue: You're just a sideman :p

Your post has nothing to do with the topic... I wouldnt take opinions from people who have personal grudges, and by the rumors of it, its half of Judgement.

Ps. Bro stop licking rich peoples hives for once, and isnt it strange that you warriors are finding the idea OP?

[Theholyangel]

You're just a sideman :p

Your post has nothing to do with the topic... I wouldnt take opinions from people who have personal grudges, and by the rumors of it, its half of Judgement.

Ps. Bro stop licking rich peoples hives for once, and isnt it strange that you warriors are finding the idea OP?

It amuses me you believe we hold grudges, we couldnt care less about you, you believe you are an all mighty rogue that everyone should bow down to but your really not, go ask other rogues about the mana issue, dont talk trash to those you can't kill. I have a arcane maul and a arcane pet, i'm using it, i've killed you without it, killed you with it. Don't talk about reap, and if anyone strokes rich ppls egos it's you, Period.

[Exist]

You're just a sideman :p

Your post has nothing to do with the topic... I wouldnt take opinions from people who have personal grudges, and by the rumors of it, its half of Judgement.

Ps. Bro stop licking rich peoples hives for once, and isnt it strange that you warriors are finding the idea OP?

This is completely relevant to this post you're one of the worst trash talkers in pvp I've seen in al now your mad because u can't adapt your build

[iluvataris]

Does every rogue have to use aimed/nox/Sp combo? its really mana consuming.

[iluvataris]

And while were at it...
Rogues lets start using some daggers,
so i can actually use my daggers : /

[Bless]

Arguing to a bunch of kids

[cindersx]

As iluvataris said, you don't have to use sp, as, and nox.

[cindersx]

Rogues had kraken. Warriors had nordr. Sorcerer have shuyal. Its the sorcerers turn. Stop complaining about your OP rogue that you want to make even more OP and face it. You dont see sorcerers making threads like this about our low health, so why should you have one about your mana? Just put some stat points into intellect or put skill points into intellect passive. There, problem solved!

[kharmel]

Lol,turns up to be a rant..hehe..IMO..open everyone's mind and a constructive feedback is much appreciated...yes,rougues can use mana pets...yes,rougues can titrate some stat points to int...yes,rougue can still kill even with damage nerf...yes,u must be thrifty enough to use your skills for not to waste it but if u think of this,as i have mentioned above, DAMAGE NERF means lesser dmg output,means more MANA consumptions and with higher mana COST,mana will be depleted very fast even being thrifty as much...even before,rougues have this issue even with full int passives thus what more with the damage nerf.

Mages can have pure int without even bothering to put dex passive and rather spend to other passive such as crit( but i personally use dex on my mage).
Warriors can have pure str without bothering to put int passive or a dex passive (perosnally i use,lols)
But with this damage nerf,it gears us toward using mana pets instead of main pet,gears us toward putting some stats other than dex(which i dont) .

With action or without action from sts,its fine...

This is actually for evryone but the thing is,it turns out to be only a rougue concern because only the rougue doesnt have mana regen..sorcerer have lifegiver and vengeful for warrior..

[GoodSyntax]

Ultimately, for purposes of farming, Rogues are still the best for fast runs, but the costs are staggering.

Whereas, Sorcs and Warrors spend the bulk of their costs on HP pots and occasionally mana, Rogues go through both....fast!

Prior to this season, it seemed I was buying pots in an almost 1:1 ratio between HP and Mana. This season, it has gone 1:2, so I am now spending twice as much on mana as I did earlier.

Can I still run maps quickly....well, yes, maybe not quite as fast with the DMG hit, but still very fast indeed. The difference is that I am now burning through more mana than ever before, and on the Shuyal maps, I use a lot of HP pots too because Rogues don't have shielding.

From a pure 1v1 search and destroy point of view, Rogues are still the best; it is after all, what this class was designed to do. But without crowd control, shielding, and mana healing, the weaknesses of the class has really been exposed.

Instead of viewing everything in the vacuum of who does the most damage, think of this from a cost perspective. If your costs go up by 30-40% because you consume more pots than last season, then farming has a lower return. Same theory goes for PvP. If it takes more skill rotations to kill an opponent, then the return on your mana pool is lower as well.

I think that we can all agree that a Rogue without mana is in a heap of trouble. So, if the increase in mana from lv31 to lv36 is minimal, but the percentage of your pool that is spent to kill an opponent goes up by 30% (which is a realistic figure), then you will be able to attain fewer kills prior to being killed yourself. Yes, a good party/team can help with mana return from VB and heals from Sorcs, but in the end, it isn't enough. Sorcs have had the best DMG in game, coupled with lots of stuns and a huge boost in armor via shield and gale. Warriors have seen a big ramp up in armor, hp and even DMG with Entombed Hammers (though most still can't challenge Sorcs/Rogues in pure DMG stat). Rogues have also had a big ramp in armor, but a loss in DMG and a barely noticeable increase in mana. This yields a net negative effect for Rogues over the past season.

I would say at this point that Rogues are decidedly not the best PvP class any more and have been supplanted by Sorcerers. We started seeing this transition last season after the rebalancing that STS did with Sorcerers, and as the better players learned to adapt to these new updates, some have truly turned into a force in the arena. If you pit the average Rogue against the average Sorc, the Rogue may still win (by way of Aimed Shot), but on the pro circuit, I don't think that this is the case anymore. Arcane Warriors in many cases would be able to handle higher end Rogues, but I suspect that this is more a matter of gear rather than skill, so I cannot comment on this. Oddly enough, last season and this season has turned Warriors into support players - certainly capable of getting kills, but primarily around to shield and heal their teammates.

I guess that it is all cyclical, with Sorcerers enjoying their time as top dog, Warriors are on the rise and Rogues are currently at their weakest. Not surprisingly, this falls in line with arcane releases for each class.

Sorry for the long read....just had to put my opinions out there.

[Jexetta]

I always value your posts Kalizzaa. I find no disagreement in your post at all and think you summarized the class standings very well. I will post something about mana usage and skill usage later tonight - I did a post on this last season comparing mana usage per skill spent. I think people without playing each class themselves start getting skewed opinions and start spouting misinformation.

You don't HAVE to use the typical combination of skills as a rogue but unfortunately in the pvp arena the typical combination of skills is the optimal damage output per mana cost, the only skill I could see being swapped out is shadow piercer. The damage nerf in pvp for rogue ultimately makes rogues (and I'd argue probably every class) even more reliant on criticals, and in that regard even more reliant on luck.

Class discussions always for some reason tend to get inflammatory, but with a new season and a change in play style I think this is definitely a discussion that needs to take place. Let's just keep it civil :)

[Cashews]

I find that the quickest way to reduce mana consumption is to use daggers instead of a bow. You might use more health pots as a tradeoff but it seems to save $$ in the long run. You would not believe how much more often you use skills with a bow than a dagger.

[Soundlesskill]

How about trying to save your mana, save your attacks, don't just spam them.

Food for thought

[Prahasit Prahi]

Warriors have high heath
Mages have high mana
Rogue have both less comparing to them
For heath we have medic but we need something for mana...

[drgrimmy]

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?115222-Sorcerer-s-Invulnerability-Shield-Glitch

When will you guys be satisfied? Please stop the annoying and relentless posts about the poor rogues who are now so hopeless in PvP and can't kill anything. I have met quite a few rogues who still seem fairly proficient at killing and seem to be having no problems with the recent changes. Just look at the standings after each pvp map, as the top kills are almost always pretty evenly shared between mages and rogues. Things seem more balanced than ever in pvp to me. If anyone should be complaining, it should be the warriors that are not full mythic and arcane. Well I guess AL would not be AL unless the rogue is the OP top class. Good luck in your endeavors to keeping the rest of us classes down in PvP.

[Alhuntrazeck]

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?115222-Sorcerer-s-Invulnerability-Shield-Glitch

When will you guys be satisfied? Please stop the annoying and relentless posts about the poor rogues who are now so hopeless in PvP and can't kill anything. I have met quite a few rogues who still seem fairly proficient at killing and seem to be having no problems with the recent changes. Just look at the standings after each pvp map, as the top kills are almost always pretty evenly shared between mages and rogues. Things seem more balanced than ever in pvp to me. If anyone should be complaining, it should be the warriors that are not full mythic and arcane. Well I guess AL would not be AL unless the rogue is the OP top class. Good luck in your endeavors to keeping the rest of us classes down in PvP.

Not to be inflammatory to the AL rogue community...but what grimmy has said is right. You complained and complained till you got our shield nerfed, so you can 1 hit us...and now you want even MORE advantages?! Really, guys. Rogues have a disadvantage: LOW MANA. remove that, and what do you have now? A class with NO WEAKNESS.

[Soundlesskill]

It's actually pretty much the same amount if mana as 31 cap, and you surivive with that little mana without complaing...

[cindersx]

Bird, just because rogues aren't as great in pvp anymore doesn't mean you should complain. And who knows, it might just be you who's doing something wrong and getting yourself killed.

[GoodSyntax]

I'm not so much complaining about the mana issue in PvP (though it does sting quite a bit). Like all the other classes that got hit with the nerf bat, Rogues will adjust and improve.

I take issue with it from a PvE perspective, because mana consumption has increased by about 30% as compared to last season (due to DMG reduction and a barely increased mana pool), so farming is now more costly. I am not concerned about the impact this has on leaderboard times, though some are, I am simply noting that I am burning through a lot of mana while running the same elite maps I've been running for the past few seasons. If drop rates were better then that would offset the additional costs, but when I'm running elite maps on reroll, burning through hundreds of pots, beat the boss and reroll to a green....

[kharmel]

No change is not a problem..if it makes rougues OP to other class then its okay to just leave it behind..anyways,even now,still,rougues can kill in pvp even with the damage nerf..we just need minor to none adjustment.

This is not even a complain..:) Its like what happened now is same as what happened on the mythic bows and bonechill bow..we were made believe of the intended stats...we are used to it on having that certain mana at 31..and at 36 almost the same or no significant change..tag it along with the damage nerf-higher armors now of all class-higher mana cost of skills-more skill usage to get the intended damage. I think this is the thread all about..

P.S. this is not a complain..just stating observations which is obvious..but if it will make rougues OP on the eyes of other class, then its not even a problem.. some more,its a great challenge to rougues:) as emma have said,dont just spam..

[Bless]

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?115222-Sorcerer-s-Invulnerability-Shield-Glitch

When will you guys be satisfied? Please stop the annoying and relentless posts about the poor rogues who are now so hopeless in PvP and can't kill anything. I have met quite a few rogues who still seem fairly proficient at killing and seem to be having no problems with the recent changes. Just look at the standings after each pvp map, as the top kills are almost always pretty evenly shared between mages and rogues. Things seem more balanced than ever in pvp to me. If anyone should be complaining, it should be the warriors that are not full mythic and arcane. Well I guess AL would not be AL unless the rogue is the OP top class. Good luck in your endeavors to keeping the rest of us classes down in PvP. That was a bug with shield.

15% mana replenish isnt op if you think about it.

[Bless]

Bird, just because rogues aren't as great in pvp anymore doesn't mean you should complain. And who knows, it might just be you who's doing something wrong and getting yourself killed. Im not complaining ffs you people have no literal sense

Im not awful, but in Normal tdm matches/ sometimes ffa, rogues run out of mana after 2 fights, is that really pvp? No. Warriors or mages dont ever die because of mana, we have to struggle with mana issues with the dmg nerf.

Actually I have an idea. Lets bring the old damage back, then i wont complain about mana, bring it back, lets see reacions

[Zeus]

My solution to this mana issue was to get a Samael and Valkin.

Keep in mind that one can use Valkin as a main pet & then use him to boost mana in combat when needed to make that extra kill. So yes, while mana is an issue for rogues in PvP, I think it is one that should remain. Why? If a warrior depletes a rogue of his mana, that is the key for the warrior to win. The same thing goes for sorcerers! In 1-2 skill cycles, a rogue's mana is depleted so use that to one's advantage! :)

[drgrimmy]

Im not awful, but in Normal tdm matches/ sometimes ffa, rogues run out of mana after 2 fights, is that really pvp? No. Warriors or mages dont ever die because of mana, we have to struggle with mana issues with the dmg nerf.

Why should you be able to kills more than 2 opponents in a row easily. You should be close to death after just one fight and not be able to easily recover. Despite our huge mana pools, it is the same for a mage. After one good fight you are a sitting duck. It is not because we have no mana left, but rather because of the longer cool downs of shield, life and the arcane's of pets. After a good fight with a rogue, I have used lifegiver, my health is low, my shield is close to broken and requires 10 seconds or so to use again, my pet's arcane is on cooldown (although more easily solved by just switching pets or dismissing and resummoning). I am just a sitting duck if I am by myself and some enemy comes along. With that in mind, I don't see the problem with rogues also being a sitting duck after one fight. Bottom line, if you are going to be a solo hero in pvp, you are not going to last more than one fight or so no matter what class you are. Rogues so often don't work with the team and run off by themselves to get the quick kill. If you just work with your team and stick by you warriors and mages to help out, they will help you out too! :) This may just be a matter of perspective as endgame AL pvp has always been more of a team fight whereas twink pvp and PL pvp, where you have more experience, is more of a 1v1 game.

From the perspective of pve, I can see the argument for the need for mana regeneration for rogues and I have absolutely no problem with that. From the perspective of pvp I would have to strongly disagree!

[Bless]

Im not awful, but in Normal tdm matches/ sometimes ffa, rogues run out of mana after 2 fights, is that really pvp? No. Warriors or mages dont ever die because of mana, we have to struggle with mana issues with the dmg nerf.

Why should you be able to kills more than 2 opponents in a row easily. You should be close to death after just one fight and not be able to easily recover. Despite our huge mana pools, it is the same for a mage. After one good fight you are a sitting duck. It is not because we have no mana left, but rather because of the longer cool downs of shield, life and the arcane's of pets. After a good fight with a rogue, I have used lifegiver, my health is low, my shield is close to broken and requires 10 seconds or so to use again, my pet's arcane is on cooldown (although more easily solved by just switching pets or dismissing and resummoning). I am just a sitting duck if I am by myself and some enemy comes along. With that in mind, I don't see the problem with rogues also being a sitting duck after one fight. Bottom line, if you are going to be a solo hero in pvp, you are not going to last more than one fight or so no matter what class you are. Rogues so often don't work with the team and run off by themselves to get the quick kill. If you just work with your team and stick by you warriors and mages to help out, they will help you out too! :) This may just be a matter of perspective as endgame AL pvp has always been more of a team fight whereas twink pvp and PL pvp, where you have more experience, is more of a 1v1 game.

From the perspective of pve, I can see the argument for the need for mana regeneration for rogues and I have absolutely no problem with that. From the perspective of pvp I would have to strongly disagree! Thats not a fixed rule: rogues should always die after 2 fights. What if its a rogue + warrior vs rogue + rogue.The rogue + warriors win 2 fights in a row but the rogue has already lost mana.

But I agree with the rest of your post. I stick to 5v5/4v4 but sometimes youd have to run off to kill the opponents rogues etc.

Sorry this thread escalated over a small idea. When I get my char back, ill do everthing that yall suggested.

[anibiag]

Rogues are op in pvp, but keep complaining, asking to make them even more op...
If you want enough mana, go play as mage, or spend more points for int. You will still kill mages in one shot.

[Bless]

Rogues are op in pvp, but keep complaining, asking to make them even more op...
If you want enough mana, go play as mage, or spend more points for int. You will still kill mages in one shot. Youcant one hit anymore and its pretty balanced. If any of these classes say "----- is OP" theyre crap themselves, with the exception of warriors.

[falmear]

Youcant one hit anymore and its pretty balanced. If any of these classes say "----- is OP" theyre crap themselves, with the exception of warriors.

This sounds like a good reason why you don't need any mana. Not sure why you created this thread then. If its balanced, any change will effect the balance.

[Bless]

Youcant one hit anymore and its pretty balanced. If any of these classes say "----- is OP" theyre crap themselves, with the exception of warriors.

This sounds like a good reason why you don't need any mana. Not sure why you created this thread then. If its balanced, any change will effect the balance. see how i say "Its pretty balanced". My quote is about one class being OP, not one class lacking mana etc

It would be wise to calm down falm, enough of this bs...Ill stop too.

[Cookietimee]

This mana is enough for the rouge class if u use ur brain u should use blades vs the warrior and wait until it proc the crit and spam critted hits for 8secs and down the warrior, this is how easy it is no need for extra mana packs , just brain and skills try it before complaining

[Bless]

This mana is enough for the rouge class if u use ur brain u should use blades vs the warrior and wait until it proc the crit and spam critted hits for 8secs and down the warrior, this is how easy it is no need for extra mana packs , just brain and skills try it before complaining Not brains, you rely on crits and thats why youre not good in 1v1 nor 5v5 cookie.

Ps. Say hi to support

[Cookietimee]

Nothing to rely on crits the blades makes u crit for sure and not a chance u get 100*%crit for 8secs none can survive 4combos full crit try it then talk again

[Bless]

Nothing to rely on crits the blades makes u crit for sure and not a chance u get 100*%crit for 8secs none can survive 4combos full crit try it then talk again Yet you got owned 20-2?

[Cookietimee]

I was testing out the daggers on rouges and after that i used my bow 3-0 man sup?

[Bless]

Bump. Mana would be good now.

[Ravager]

Rogues have to stop killing somehow. In this case, they run out of mana.

Warriors used to have vb that constantly refilled mana. They nerfed it to give us a weakness.

Rogues with limitless mana and bad ethics could easily make attempts to repeatedly spawn kill.

[Bless]

Rogues have to stop killing somehow. In this case, they run out of mana.

Warriors used to have vb that constantly refilled mana. They nerfed it to give us a weakness.

Rogues with limitless mana and bad ethics could easily make attempts to repeatedly spawn kill.

1. Pvp is about killing, we cant stop killing.
2. Warriors still have unlimited mana as long as someone keeps attacking them, which is always because its pvp
3. How is a simple [5% replenish on each heal medic pack and a 50% mana heal proc on entangled bow] limitless as opposed to truly limitless mana abilities of a warriors VB?

Counter argument :) keep it civilised

[Jenvy]

Why not incorporate say... a 50% mana HoT into razor shield?

In order to pick this up, a lot of rogues would probably stop spamming uncharged nox after AS and before Pierce in pvp. You would effectively decrease our maximum damage output, but give us a great way to remain viable in longer bouts.

A very fair exchange, IMO.

[Bless]

Why not incorporate say... a 50% mana HoT into razor shield?

In order to pick this up, a lot of rogues would probably stop spamming uncharged nox after AS and before Pierce in pvp. You would effectively decrease our maximum damage output, but give us a great way to remain viable in longer bouts.

A very fair exchange, IMO. Thats why my suggestion is a buff: It doesnt need to sacrifice anything, therefore its a simple and small buff (5% heal per pack) WITHOUT losing any damage

[Ravager]

1. You can continue to kill, not just with insane damage without the mana. It just requires a bit more strategy in some cases.

2. Warriors run out of mana. Vb is not active all the time. I run to get mana packs in pvp.

3. We need a weakness for rogues. Maybe reduce health pack health gain for mana gain.

Most warriors will struggle killing rogues unless they run out of mana in many cases.

[Nitexx]

If Rogues can heal Mana, why would Mages be needed at all?? Renders this class useless, especially for pvp. As it is, Mages are not necessary for PVE, since 3 rogues and a tank can take on pretty much anything ... but with Mana heal, PVP would just be 4 rogues just destroying everything ... it's fine, as once this happens, I would switch to a rogue character and build that up, as I'm assuming, would most ...

[DexterityX]

as far as i know... pvp system right now is full bs to me. rogues cant kill a warrior with full mythic since the last 2 updates sts cripple rogues to there knees. (damage reduction and healing effectiveness reduction witch really puts rouges to the test)
for mages who saying rouge is too op, i agree with you, but with the exception of season 5. season 4 below rogues are op. but this season rogue is just terrible to use in pvp. the only skills that really kills everything on pvp is aimshot or probably shadow pierce. but with all kinds of skill that mages use.. its all around, i mean you can use it on pve or pvp. also mage is now untouchable for 1v1. for example their stun and their curse + their damage+dps really makes them invincible, if so manage to survive with their op`nes.. you much probobly emptied your mana because of their shield. rogue cant event use their specialty... their quickness.

the only thing rogue can kill is on 5v5 with the help of others. 1v1 is full of bs for rogue right now. sts should do something about this mana lacking rogue issue.

[iluvataris]

why not incorporate say... A 50% mana hot into razor shield?

In order to pick this up, a lot of rogues would probably stop spamming uncharged nox after as and before pierce in pvp. You would effectively decrease our maximum damage output, but give us a great way to remain viable in longer bouts.

A very fair exchange, imo.this : )

[Derezzzed]

this : )

^Double this :)

[Bless]

Maybe add a 50% mana HoT (if they decide to try out Jenvys idea) to noxious bolt instead of razer shield? Razer shield doesnt work well against certain classes/builds. Whereas nox bolt is THE MOST versatile skill after Aimed Shot.

[Jenvy]

Maybe add a 50% mana HoT (if they decide to try out Jenvys idea) to noxious bolt instead of razer shield? Razer shield doesnt work well against certain classes/builds. Whereas nox bolt is THE MOST versatile skill after Aimed Shot.

No, they're at the point where they can't give us a straight up buff, as that would make rogues OP for yet another season.

They need to simultaneously take something away if they're going to lessen the severity of our one major weakness.

[Bless]

No, they're at the point where they can't give us a straight up buff, as that would make rogues OP for yet another season.

They need to simultaneously take something away if they're going to lessen the severity of our one major weakness.

Thats why my suggestion is a buff: It doesnt need to sacrifice anything, therefore its a simple and small buff (5% heal per pack) WITHOUT losing any damage


We need a buff of mana. Other classes got buffed previous update and i dont see why we have to sacrifice any stats....

[Alfai]

Solution to mana struggle for rogues thats aint selfish and fueling good competitive play.

PVP
1.use mana pet.switch pets often in a midst of real time battle to replenish mana.
2.use mana pets.i give you names easier either nexus or mccraw.mk sure they are capped.
3 race to death for mana packs.the fastest wins.ensure you are nearby the flag base.
4.might hv to use speed pets like kettle if ur out of mana to dash to mana packs.again switch packs.
5.stand at the furthest you can from a battle to increase your chance for a longer bout.then kill steal but at that distance still.u cant take the risk since you die easily.
6.to excel step 5.only add quota to the skills of your choice 3max.charge if u like but might have to reduce further the skill usage.
7.carefully target an opponent and focus on him alone.if he hides among others make sure your death is worth it by ensuring hes dead too.u got aimed shots its fatal.
8.rethink the number of skills when respec.might not need 4.u will use more mana.pick only aimed n maxed it since its a guaranteed fatal 1shot
9.u better have the best gears and skills to produce a killer aimed shot hit.at least a critical knockout.you are playing w death.
10.be independent.which also means u r at your own.reliance might cause death.u knw this from gambling w crates and get tears.
11.try to keep rejoin a room with low levels with you the only one capped.theres your golden moment.farm those noobs.
12.just flag.it aps anyways.and respawn if die and repeat it.
13.appreciate what you have being a rogue.coz you are meant to be feared or farmed.only 2 possible endings so thats not bad.
14.praise others who have abilities that you need but dont have.you are good at killing esp kill steal.so charge at will.
15.fear not arcane mauls or staffs.you do enough w bow.ur aimed shot can puncture their lungs.add nox and you will have good dinner.
16.nvr equip your hooks in pvp.for reputation sake.its deadliee than bloodhammer 1shot.and you might not even have a game.
17.u can spam normal arrows for better chance for crits.good luck tho
18.

PVE
1.join a guild.so you can spend on mana pots at cheaper price
2.set a minimum quota of pots before venturing out.make it a habit and no fear on spending.do dailies if no more gold.at least 2000k at minimum.if you are pro perhaps keep it lower at 1999.keep the k's tho
3.u cant never trust anyone to do their job.so plant that in mind for focus.
4.u got more time to think rather than pvp.so pray often.
5.do it fast since its the best thing about being you.you can run so fast and be in lb
6.u might wanna just play by doing dailies.forget elite.its pve still the dailies.

Ill add should more comes to mind.

[Bless]

Solution to mana struggle for rogues thats aint selfish and fueling good competitive play.

PVP
1.use mana pet.switch pets often in a midst of real time battle to replenish mana.
2.use mana pets.i give you names easier either nexus or mccraw.mk sure they are capped.
3 race to death for mana packs.the fastest wins.ensure you are nearby the flag base.
Thats not a valid suggestion, we cant always be running for mana
4.might hv to use speed pets like kettle if ur out of mana to dash to mana packs.again switch packs.
5.stand at the furthest you can from a battle to increase your chance for a longer bout.then kill steal but at that distance still.u cant take the risk since you die easily.
Sure you can stand behind the tank but any further than that means you arent doing teamwork, its almost like: stand at the back do less damage, when theyre nearly dead then ks. It goes against any pro pvpers agenda...
6.to excel step 5.only add quota to the skills of your choice 3max.charge if u like but might have to reduce further the skill usage.
7.carefully target an opponent and focus on him alone.if he hides among others make sure your death is worth it by ensuring hes dead too.u got aimed shots its fatal.
8.rethink the number of skills when respec.might not need 4.u will use more mana.pick only aimed n maxed it since its a guaranteed fatal 1shot
9.u better have the best gears and skills to produce a killer aimed shot hit.at least a critical knockout.you are playing w death.
10.be independent.which also means u r at your own.reliance might cause death.u knw this from gambling w crates and get tears.
11.try to keep rejoin a room with low levels with you the only one capped.theres your golden moment.farm those noobs.


12.just flag.it aps anyways.and respawn if die and repeat it.
13.appreciate what you have being a rogue.coz you are meant to be feared or farmed.only 2 possible endings so thats not bad.
14.praise others who have abilities that you need but dont have.you are good at killing esp kill steal.so charge at will.
15.fear not arcane mauls or staffs.you do enough w bow.ur aimed shot can puncture their lungs.add nox and you will have good dinner.
16.nvr equip your hooks in pvp.for reputation sake.its deadliee than bloodhammer 1shot.and you might not even have a game.
17.u can spam normal arrows for better chance for crits.good luck tho
funny but invalid suggestions to actually dish out damage + handle mana pool
18.

PVE
1.join a guild.so you can spend on mana pots at cheaper price
2.set a minimum quota of pots before venturing out.make it a habit and no fear on spending.do dailies if no more gold.at least 2000k at minimum.if you are pro perhaps keep it lower at 1999.keep the k's tho
3.u cant never trust anyone to do their job.so plant that in mind for focus.
4.u got more time to think rather than pvp.so pray often.
5.do it fast since its the best thing about being you.you can run so fast and be in lb
6.u might wanna just play by doing dailies.forget elite.its pve still the dailies.

Ill add should more comes to mind. Thats what Im talking about. We dont have to keep running around like freakin monkeys for Mana orbs or blow up 30 dmg just to use a mana pet...Its actually time we had some mana buff. I dont want mana pet bs because mana pets give me like 1.8k mana whilst losing 30 dmg and 300 hp and crit and dodge

[Alfai]

Thats what Im talking about. We dont have to keep running around like freakin monkeys for Mana orbs or blow up 30 dmg just to use a mana pet...Its actually time we had some mana buff. I dont want mana pet bs because mana pets give me like 1.8k mana whilst losing 30 dmg and 300 hp and crit and dodge

My post was pun intended hope u realized that *cough

Btw looking at many negative feedbacks on similar threads tht talks bout rogue disadvantage made me not wanting to add similar constructive commeonts or food for discussion in this thread. Whilst i feel insulted and annoyed due to an unfair feedback for rogues (many not just 1) requsdt to relook at this without a fixed or guaranteed working solution is already a taboo and freak everybody out.

I have faith and waiting for at least a comment for dev not a promise to solve this yet but just a word to relook into this matter.and i doubt it will be that soon as the maths with consideration to other classes who also seek fairness can be complicated and carefully thought of.its my persobal opinion that recent update missed couple of areas to consider that resulting rogues condition atm but i might be wrong and dev might have a valid reason.lesser changes means more effective solutions at the expense of time.so i put my faith this will be reviewed and perhaps solved to not verify the mhytical tale of overpowered rogues but spotlight on making us compete better.

But ping is another huge issue so im not sure whether this mana review stand a chance for immediate rectification.
But cross fingers our voice are heared.

On a separate note.personally being a rogue myself i nvr feel overpowered playing this class as survivability is a big cons of this class.im sure other fellow rogues can agree and accepting it.and being a rogue having to adapt in various situations is makes us a versatile class not op.most of the adaptations were not in favour for rogues but we are forced to deal with it and we do which makes us good at offensive and tactical approach.its not a privellege which i failed to accept why its perceived negatively by other class tho i can understand everyone likes to kill.but not all can accept not everyone is meant to do tht.the class is clearly diffrentiated with specific roleplay.doing minor updates cn easily give huge impact tht might redefine its mechanics imo.if u wana do kills but not selecting a rogue class to compensate rogue cons than asking to buff your class to earn that ability kinda absurd to me.in fact we might even lookinf at the wronf aspects of the game for examole a match design or rewards system.so a class can harness and have their stage to fairly compete.and usinf kills tho thats always the expected takeouts as rewards or testament of a good player might need to be reviewed then.nothing specific i cn think of just some starters.

Btw with reference to other mmorpgs its the same issue.as people want more and more and evolving.and being selfish for your class is not wrong too since its conpetitive but must at least tagged with a valid and relevant arguemnts.to claim a rogue is op coz he cn kill or 1shot kill you is quite shallow.as skills n other factors have a fair share of impacting a match outcome tho it may not be the main contributor.but for rogue situation i believe the limit is breached at the moment and turn out to give a missing point to mantain a fair competitive experience that can be mutually accepted generally.as of now with other impactful factors taken into account rogue is not at that par of a fair competition atm even the fact that its not their season highlight.

Most importantly what the rogues are suggesting is not to nerf other classes ability which we rogues are being treated in such manner now.poor rogues