Feedback Request ::: How to Stop Bael II and Krunch from Ruining end game content

[Alrisaia]

The purpose of this thread is to provide a sounding board for those of us who believe that Bael II and Krunch's appearance has a chance to ruin the end game content of Arcane Legends.

Please keep the thread constructive, and concise with your thoughts and ideas for how and why Bael II and Krunch have caused your behavior in game to change - specifically related to your acquisition and use of platinum - as well as ideas on how you believe they could be a valuable addition to the game.

While I think having Elite bosses pop up during regular map battles is a really cool idea, I disagree with them having the kind of end game elite loot that they have as well as their positioning in the game.

That being said here are some thoughts I had with regards to how some minor changes to Bael II and Krunch to be considered.


Problem
I believe that the amount of loot being flooded into the game as a result of Bael and Krunch is causing people to reconsider what they spend their time doing. This poses a multifaceted problem that STS should consider reviewing based on the impacts below.

Impact
Since players farm / hunt for bael and krunch more frequently than running Elite maps, we spend less Plat on:

revives
luck elixers
enhancement elixers

Since Bael and Krunch drop the best gear in the game, there's no need for me to buy a Shadow Plat bundle since I can

find the best gear in the game super cheap at the CS
farm for bael and krunch with little to no risk other than time invested, my attention doesn't even need to be on the game 100% of the time
I could hunt for Bael or Krunch wearing all blue gear and needn't worry about not being able to kill the 'boss' since I can just invite some friends to kill him for me


Solution
While I am at a loss for a solution - I have some ideas that might take us in the right direction to begin with.


Bael & Krunch could randomly spawn when the boss of their respective maps reaches 50% health at the boss' respective spawn point.
Bael & Krunch could have their loot tables updated to include either

a) only level 35 versions of the best gear in the game or
b) no elite gear from Shuyal

Bael & Krunch could have their spawn rates reduced to such a minuscule amount that they would be fought the way STS intended

[Drearivev]

I honestly don't even like Bael II and Krunch II. It takes forever to find them, so it's purely luck based. Also, they're dropping all the old elite gear like Demonologist, Ranger, Demonlord etc. Only difference is, that they drop as lvl 35 items. I'm honestly surprised prices of Elite Golden Warchests didn't go down much.

[Ebezaanec]

My idea is that a quest will be implemented such as:

"Kill Elite Bael II Three Times"
"Kill Elite Krunch II Three Times"

Then you can turn in the quest for a random reward from the quest-giver NPC

At least this way the drops won't be flooding auction as much as now...

[Taejo]

Impact
Since players farm / hunt for bael and krunch more frequently than running Elite maps, we spend less Plat on:
revives
luck elixers
enhancement elixers

Couldn't have written this better myself. Although we don't have any hard statistics in front of us, I can only imagine that plat sales from these 3 categories aren't as great as they were before people found out they can simply hunt Shuyal loot from Bael/Krunch.


I believe that the amount of loot being flooded into the game as a result of Bael and Krunch is causing people to reconsider what they spend their time doing. This poses a multifaceted problem that STS should consider reviewing based on the impacts below.

100% on point. I am seeing many guilds that once had a strong passion for the elite campaigns and farming endless hours to acquire their loot succumb to mindlessly running Kraken/Nordr maps for a chance at Bael/Krunch II loot. As I've stated in many threads throughout this forum touching on the topic, their loot tables are far too extensive and not proportionate to the mechanics of the risk versus reward system. The problem is simple, and the proposed fixes can also be simple if we formulate them within reason.


Bael & Krunch could randomly spawn when the boss of their respective maps reaches 50% health at the boss' respective spawn point.

I can't say I agree with this one. The mechanics involved for spawning Krunch/Bael as they're currently set up are fine, and do not impact the primary issue from my perspective. This should be left alone.


Bael & Krunch could have their loot tables updated to include either
a) only level 35 versions of the best gear in the game or
b) no elite gear from Shuyal

Their loot tables are the problem. Right now any player has the chance to obtain almost every single piece of end-game loot simply by farming Bael/Krunch and never stepping foot into an elite map. How? Bael/Krunch drop L36 Shuyal weapons, L36 Shuyal helm/armor and Elite Golden Warchests (which, technically speaking, could grant them mythic armor, necklace and ring, and quite possibly an arcane weapon). The only loot they can't obtain from these two bosses are mythic helms. Of course, from a different perspective, this method of "farming" wouldn't be considered time well spent unless you absolutely despise running elite maps with groups. It would be very time consuming to obtain all of the aforementioned gear due to the obvious factors that a) their spawn rate is quite low, b) their loot table is so vast that it's nearly impossible to truly "farm" a specific item and c) the warchests have an extremely low drop rate for mythic/arcane items. However, the principle of the matter is that it could be done - especially with Nordr/Shuyal loot.

The solution to the problem is very easy, in my mind. Reduce his loot table to only contain Brackenridge through Kraken Isles campaign loot, which scales up to L35. Why is this a reasonable solution? It offers variety for end-gamers to consider when equipping their toons, but also leaves Nordr and Shuyal loot to be exclusive and valuable. The market is suffering greatly from the overflow of Nordr/Shuyal loot due to recent bugs, Arena drop rates, and now Bael/Krunch's supply. We can not ignore the economy when looking at the overall impact of Bael/Krunch's loot tables. I realize that not everyone can afford the Nordr/Shuyal gear from the CS. So in this regard, my proposed modification still provides the non-hardcore players to obtain decent loot at very little risk - which they can choose to sell or wear. The Nordr campaign has scaled up to L35, just as campaigns in the past have. It now shares the same risk versus reward quality as elite Shuyal, aside from the fact that many players are already familiar with the Nordr maps and strategies. Just like the new Shuyal campaign, the difficulty of obtaining elite loot in Nordr is a difficult measure for most players. Those who are capable and willing to run these maps clearly deserve to reap the elite goods that drop based on fundamental risk versus reward principles. However, currently any other player who does not wish to run these maps has the opportunity to gather up the same loot simply by hunting for Bael/Krunch. This is not fair to those who are venturing into the new content, formulating strategy and spending plat on revives and elixers to acquire their loot. I strongly suggest that both Nordr and Shuyal campaign loot are removed from the loot tables.

To outline my proposal of what I feel Bael/Krunch loot tables should look like:

Tier 1: (Epic) Elite Golden Warchest
Tier 2: (Legendary) L35 Brackenridge-Kraken campaign loot
Tier 3: (Legendary) L35/36 unique drops (Wrath of Bael, Troll Necromatic Ring, etc. - forgot the names of other unique stuff only these 2 drop)

*** The tiers represent the rarity within the loot tables, meaning, I have to reroll out of Tier 1 to obtain Tier 2 loot, and so on.

The unique loot that Bael/Krunch drop are the only motivation for someone like me to hunt them, aside from making some gold. I think it's great that a lot of the jewelry these two are dropping are of considerable quality for end-gamers to equip rather than simply seeking out mythic equipment. This is something that STG really needs to expand upon when revamping Bael/Krunch and introducing future rare spawns to the campaigns.

Lastly, while I am certain that there will be a number of comments pertaining to the current issues with elite maps in attempts try to justify why my suggestions are 'not fair to the casual gamer', I can assure you that I have kept the casual players in mind when writing this proposal. The mechanics of elite maps are to be dealt with in other thread, and I do realize that both they and Bael/Krunch are somewhat interrelated and interdependent issues. It's important that as a community, we help STG fix the problems one step at a time and avoid an overwhelming revamp to the everything at once.

-----

I may come back to edit this later.

[Veluthe]

Its fine as is imo. You must consider that thier spawn rate is low as is. At least i think so considering i hunt hours a day and be lucky to find once. Besides there's nothing wrong with loot distribution either. All players arent able to buy plat or lack gear and skill to run elites like you. So they need a way to be happy as well dontcha think?

[falmear]

Right now there are a lot of worthless pinks in the game. Because there is so much architect armor in the game, the shade armor doesn't even sell. Also check out the quills they are so cheap right now. The quills don't drop from Bael or Krunch but you can see what happens when you can farm something in like 3 mins or less. Right now the economy is very bad and I am having to list things 3 or 4 times before it sells. I'd like to see the architect armor/helms & quills reduced. Also the arena drops architect armor/helms too. I was going to create a separate thread for the quills because right now a level 36 quills of brutality which is the best dagger in the game is less then 80k.

Also as a follow up to my original post there is about twice as much architect armor in cs then shade armor. And about the same number of helms of each. So how can the best pink be more common then the second best?

[Taejo]

Its fine as is imo. You must consider that thier spawn rate is low as is. At least i think so considering i hunt hours a day and be lucky to find once. Besides there's nothing wrong with loot distribution either. All players arent able to buy plat or lack gear and skill to run elites like you. So they need a way to be happy as well dontcha think?

I respect your answer. However, you're assuming that Alrisaia walked into this game with an advantage over others, and that's why he's so successful and obligated to create this thread. This couldn't be further from the truth. We all start out at L1, with white gear and little or no contacts. The diversity of players ultimately comes from their efforts to progress. You can't deny that everyone has an equal chance to network, form parties, develop strategy, and work hard for their gear. MMORPGs simply wouldn't exist if it were impossible. The point we're trying to make is, AL is becoming an 'effortless' game - primarily because of the enablers within its content. In this case, we strongly feel that Bael/Krunch are additional and economically damaging enablers. This is not to say that we condemn their existence within the game - I would be a hypocrite for saying such a thing after supporting the rare spawn idea in Swede's elite map thread - but rather, we feel they have a few discrepancies that need to be worked out before its too late. Don't take this thread the wrong way. We are not against having different avenues to succeed. However, when it comes to reaping the rewards available for sheer effort, strategy and skill, things are disproportionate when it comes to Bael/Krunch.

Alrisaia's cognoscente motive behind starting this thread is to help improve the overall health and well-being of AL's economy and longevity. Please realize that.

[Alrisaia]

Right now there are a lot of worthless pinks in the game. Because there is so much architect armor in the game, the shade armor doesn't even sell. Also check out the quills they are so cheap right now. The quills don't drop from Bael or Krunch but you can see what happens when you can farm something in like 3 mins or less. Right now the economy is very bad and I am having to list things 3 or 4 times before it sells. I'd like to see the architect armor/helms & quills reduced. Also the arena drops architect armor/helms too. I was going to create a separate thread for the quills because right now a level 36 quills of brutality which is the best dagger in the game is less then 80k.

Also as a follow up to my original post there is about twice as much architect armor in cs then shade armor. And about the same number of helms of each. So how can the best pink be more common then the second best?
unless something has changed bael drops elite architect gear. I'm guessing krunch does as well.

i have personally looted two pieces of architect gear from bael

shade armor is more rare because as far is i know it only drops from puzzle boxes which only drop in elite shuyal...

this causes a major imbalance of best/ second best gear. there is more arch armor than shade in supply because of bael and krunch

[Taejo]

Right now there are a lot of worthless pinks in the game. Because there is so much architect armor in the game, the shade armor doesn't even sell. Also check out the quills they are so cheap right now. The quills don't drop from Bael or Krunch but you can see what happens when you can farm something in like 3 mins or less. Right now the economy is very bad and I am having to list things 3 or 4 times before it sells. I'd like to see the architect armor/helms & quills reduced. Also the arena drops architect armor/helms too. I was going to create a separate thread for the quills because right now a level 36 quills of brutality which is the best dagger in the game is less then 80k.

Also as a follow up to my original post there is about twice as much architect armor in cs then shade armor. And about the same number of helms of each. So how can the best pink be more common then the second best?

unless something has changed bael drops elite architect gear. I'm guessing krunch does as well.

i have personally looted two pieces of architect gear from bael

shade armor is more rare because as far is i know it only drops from puzzle boxes which only drop in elite shuyal...

this causes a major imbalance of best/ second best gear. there is more arch armor than shade in supply because of bael and krunch

Falmear is correct - the arena is the primary distributor of Architect armor and helms right now, with Bael/Krunch being in not too distant 2nd place. I doubt much of any Architect gear comes from Wraith Heart and Inan'hesh. And yea, it doesn't make much sense to have Shade armor come from chests and be so rare. Arena should be dropping Shade gear, Bael/Krunch should drop neither, and only Wraith Heart/Inan'hesh dropping Architect.

[Energizeric]

Here is the solution..... Get rid of them!! hehe....

Originally the idea of having elite bosses spawn on non-elite maps was an idea discussed as an alternative to having elite maps. The idea went like this....

1) get rid of elite maps

2) Have elite bosses spawn INSTEAD OF the regular boss at random times.

3) Elite bosses would spawn on the same map as the regular boss, and in the same spot on the map. It would just be a surpise you would see every once in a while.

4) The elite boss would not drop good loot every time, but would have the same drop table as elite bosses currently do on the elite maps. So elite bael would still drop malison eggs.

5) these bosses would NOT drop items that do not already drop from other bosses in the game.



But since this idea was obviously not pursued, I suggest at a minimum that bael 2 & krunch 2 should NOT drop any item that does not already drop from another boss in the game. That means that if you cannot get a level 35 kraken skewer from the boss in elite skull cove, then you should not be able to get one from bael 2 or krunch 2. The drop table should not scale items that are not scaled that way in other dungeons. That alone should solve most of these issues everyone is complaining about.

[falmear]

I think they can adjust drop rates and drop tables without doing anything drastic. There should be more shade armor & helms dropping then architect. This is not the case. And they should reduce the drops on quills as well. Its too easy to kill Krom.

[Taejo]

Here is the solution..... Get rid of them!! hehe....

Originally the idea of having elite bosses spawn on non-elite maps was an idea discussed as an alternative to having elite maps. The idea went like this....

1) get rid of elite maps

2) Have elite bosses spawn INSTEAD OF the regular boss at random times.

3) Elite bosses would spawn on the same map as the regular boss, and in the same spot on the map. It would just be a surpise you would see every once in a while.

4) The elite boss would not drop good loot every time, but would have the same drop table as elite bosses currently do on the elite maps. So elite bael would still drop malison eggs.

5) these bosses would NOT drop items that do not already drop from other bosses in the game.



But since this idea was obviously not pursued, I suggest at a minimum that bael 2 & krunch 2 should NOT drop any item that does not already drop from another boss in the game. That means that if you cannot get a level 35 kraken skewer from the boss in elite skull cove, then you should not be able to get one from bael 2 or krunch 2. The drop table should not scale items that are not scaled that way in other dungeons. That alone should solve most of these issues everyone is complaining about.

Yeah, I was a bit upset to see the idea get twisted and spit out Bael as the result. If they remove the entire loot table as you're suggesting, then I guess that would boost the market of the L35/36 loot currently in circulation, which would be a good thing. They would have to make it so he commonly drops a chest and very rarely drops a pink then. Or add new loot - Wrath of Bael and the Troll Ring are both good ideas.. we need more of this.

[Veluthe]

I respect your answer. However, you're assuming that Alrisaia walked into this game with an advantage over others, and that's why he's so successful and obligated to create this thread. This couldn't be further from the truth. We all start out at L1, with white gear and little or no contacts. The diversity of players ultimately comes from their efforts to progress. You can't deny that everyone has an equal chance to network, form parties, develop strategy, and work hard for their gear. MMORPGs simply wouldn't exist if it were impossible. The point we're trying to make is, AL is becoming an 'effortless' game - primarily because of the enablers within its content. In this case, we strongly feel that Bael/Krunch are additional and economically damaging enablers. This is not to say that we condemn their existence within the game - I would be a hypocrite for saying such a thing after supporting the rare spawn idea in Swede's elite map thread - but rather, we feel they have a few discrepancies that need to be worked out before its too late. Don't take this thread the wrong way. We are not against having different avenues to succeed. However, when it comes to reaping the rewards available for sheer effort, strategy and skill, things are disproportionate when it comes to Bael/Krunch.

Alrisaia's cognoscente motive behind starting this thread is to help improve the overall health and well-being of AL's economy and longevity. Please realize that.
Im aware everyone starts out same and i wasnt assuming alrisia started with advantage. I know hes worked hard cus hes my friend and i was in his guild.

Im simply saying i see nothing wrong with way it is. Look at it this perspective:
Sure the bael/krunch method may not be as challenging as elite, but its a lot more time consuming to find em. You can hunt for hours to no prevail where as most elites take 10-15 min max. Thus i think its fair and balances out.

Bael/krunch are classified as elite too and elite bosses drop good gear right? If they shouldn't drop this gear then maybe shouldn't be classified as elite.

Just my opinion. But i guess y'all know more than i lol.


unless something has changed bael drops elite architect gear. I'm guessing krunch does as well.

i have personally looted two pieces of architect gear from bael

shade armor is more rare because as far is i know it only drops from puzzle boxes which only drop in elite shuyal...

this causes a major imbalance of best/ second best gear. there is more arch armor than shade in supply because of bael and krunch

Ya both drop architect. Ive only gotten one piece so far but was one of least value.

They drop shade too. Got one of it yesterday but again of least value. I started cs price sy like 10k and went down to 1500 after bout 5 re-listings. I eventually gave to random lol.

[Alrisaia]

They drop shade too. Got one of it yesterday but again of least value. I started cs price sy like 10k and went down to 1500 after bout 5 re-listings. I eventually gave to random lol.

this only solidifies my point even more.

also- elite bosses sometimes drop good gear these'elite' bosses ALWAYS drop good loot... so the amount of time put in is about equal... unless you have skilled bael hunters who in a party of four can find him in two hours max.

his spawn rate is from my best estimate is 1 in 100 or so

[Joncheese]

Thanks for this post Alr.

Whatever happened to running Elites and grinding hard to reach your target and playing the game the way you started it. For me that is why i love this game so much :)

Seriously though, i would be a hypocrite if i said i haven't hunted Bael on the odd occasion. I am not at all opposed to these guys being in the game, or for them to be dropping some of the loot tables that are there now. However i do agree it is having a heavy impact on the way this game is played.

My suggestions are:

- Fewer Spawns

Make them harder to find, make it so that a team of four (or even one in a case i know of) cant find him in an hour.

- Adjust their loot tables

Make it so Shuyal gear is not included. Also make it so that they do not drop items that are available from other bosses within AL. For example make it so that you cannot
get Firesquid Lvl 35 from him

- Add new loot

As Taejo mentioned, include new items (maybe only a few) that are desireable and worth their rarity.


I believe if you do this, there is no need to remove them from the game. They are a great addition and add another aspect and that is always welcome. Also it means that people would start running Elite maps once more. It would help the AL economy to recover from its problems, and would mean that places like Palm Rock that drop the Firesquid would then be 'farmed' again as the gear would be worth our time and effort since Brunch wouldnt be dropping them anymore.

I'm sure there is something i am missing, and a problem i haven't considered, and if i have please correct me. Im never the most clear headed at the best of times.

Again Alr, thanks for the great post :)

[Haligali]

Right now there are a lot of worthless pinks in the game. Because there is so much architect armor in the game, the shade armor doesn't even sell. Also check out the quills they are so cheap right now. The quills don't drop from Bael or Krunch but you can see what happens when you can farm something in like 3 mins or less. Right now the economy is very bad and I am having to list things 3 or 4 times before it sells. I'd like to see the architect armor/helms & quills reduced. Also the arena drops architect armor/helms too. I was going to create a separate thread for the quills because right now a level 36 quills of brutality which is the best dagger in the game is less then 80k.

Also as a follow up to my original post there is about twice as much architect armor in cs then shade armor. And about the same number of helms of each. So how can the best pink be more common then the second best?

Bael dropped me quills brutality last weekend, and previously was a quills riposte - i cant name anything worse, less than 500 gold. :D

[Energizeric]

I do love the idea of a boss who is rarely seen, yet has a 100% drop rate of good items (legendary items or elite gold chest). However, I think they need to adjust the drops a bit so that these really obscure items do not drop. It's nice for a boss like this to have an exclusive drop that only drops from him, like in the case of bael the elite warrior weapon, or these Troll Necro rings. But it seems like half of the loot that comes from these bosses only comes from them. You have basically every item that can be gotten in any previous campaign and it now scales to level 35 and drops from them. I don't like that, it's too much. I suppose it does give a large variety of gear we can choose from, but it also makes it really confusing as it's hard to know what gear is even out there to consider.

[Rare]

I agree with your on the elite gear from Shuyal. Those items should only come from Shuyal.

IMO, the rare bosses should only give gear from the map they are killed in. For example, if you find them in a Nordr map, you can only get nordr gear. If you find them in Kraken, you only get Kraken gear and so on.

The whole point of these random spawning bosses is to compensate for the poor party mechanics as it relates to elite maps. It like trying to go from Atlanta to Miami but going through New Orleans.

[Deadroth]

Thanks for this post Alr.

Whatever happened to running Elites and grinding hard to reach your target and playing the game the way you started it. For me that is why i love this game so much :)

Seriously though, i would be a hypocrite if i said i haven't hunted Bael on the odd occasion. I am not at all opposed to these guys being in the game, or for them to be dropping some of the loot tables that are there now. However i do agree it is having a heavy impact on the way this game is played.

My suggestions are:

- Fewer Spawns

Make them harder to find, make it so that a team of four (or even one in a case i know of) cant find him in an hour.

- Adjust their loot tables

Make it so Shuyal gear is not included. Also make it so that they do not drop items that are available from other bosses within AL. For example make it so that you cannot
get Firesquid Lvl 35 from him

- Add new loot

As Taejo mentioned, include new items (maybe only a few) that are desireable and worth their rarity.


I believe if you do this, there is no need to remove them from the game. They are a great addition and add another aspect and that is always welcome. Also it means that people would start running Elite maps once more. It would help the AL economy to recover from its problems, and would mean that places like Palm Rock that drop the Firesquid would then be 'farmed' again as the gear would be worth our time and effort since Brunch wouldnt be dropping them anymore.

I'm sure there is something i am missing, and a problem i haven't considered, and if i have please correct me. Im never the most clear headed at the best of times.

Again Alr, thanks for the great post :)

The three options are good :) Dev.. pick wisely XD

[Alrisaia]

Thanks for this post Alr.

Whatever happened to running Elites and grinding hard to reach your target and playing the game the way you started it. For me that is why i love this game so much :)
Seriously though, i would be a hypocrite if i said i haven't hunted Bael on the odd occasion. I am not at all opposed to these guys being in the game, or for them to be dropping some of the loot tables that are there now. However i do agree it is having a heavy impact on the way this game is played.

Everyone hunts him. I have a toon specifically specced and geared for it. This mage who runs the maps he spawns in – in about 60 seconds per map. So, a 1 in 100 chance takes 6000 seconds maximum… that’s 1.667 hours per find for an average.
Seems right considering Nyk finds him about twice a day. – btw I named my George Nyk… hahaha :)




My suggestions are:

- Fewer Spawns

Deffo good call, but not the end all be all correction. Still Risk / Reward imbalance. Low Risk High Reward… means everyone does it.
Time, Pots, and Plat are the risk factors that STS can affect with their changes, thus this helps with 1 of the three risk factors… if we can affect all risk factors AND the reward factor – people will stop ‘farming’ him and he will be ‘discovered accidentally’ which is sort of what I thought the point of these guys was in the first place.




- Adjust their loot tables

Make it so Shuyal gear is not included. Also make it so that they do not drop items that are available from other bosses within AL. For example make it so that you cannot get Firesquid Lvl 35 from him

Cannot agree more.
Although – I’m kinda liking the lv 35 firesquids, just make them lootable from Elite PR AND Bael… not ONLY Bael.


- Add new loot

As Taejo mentioned, include new items (maybe only a few) that are desireable and worth their rarity.

I do love the idea of having the Bael axe, Troll ring, etc… In fact I believe they should have more of this gear. I don’t however believe it should be on par with the elite loot that drops from Actual End Game Elite Maps, at best it should be 3rd in line behind the gear from Elite Bosses, Elite Puzzle boxes, then Bael Krunch loot.

Always come back to Risk / Reward when considering loot tables. An average team can farm Bael 1x every hour. A Good team can hit him 1x every 30 minutes if they know how to do it…


I believe if you do this, there is no need to remove them from the game. They are a great addition and add another aspect and that is always welcome. Also it means that people would start running Elite maps once more. It would help the AL economy to recover from its problems, and would mean that places like Palm Rock that drop the Firesquid would then be 'farmed' again as the gear would be worth our time and effort since Brunch wouldnt be dropping them anymore.

I'm sure there is something i am missing, and a problem i haven't considered, and if i have please correct me. Im never the most clear headed at the best of times.

Again Alr, thanks for the great post :)
/agree I don’t believe that they would need to be removed from the game. I wonder if STS has data on how much loot / how often these guys spawn and what they’re actually pumping into the market and how on or off the mark we are.

No Jon,
Thank you for your input and backing me up here.


I do love the idea of a boss who is rarely seen, yet has a 100% drop rate of good items (legendary items or elite gold chest). However, I think they need to adjust the drops a bit so that these really obscure items do not drop. It's nice for a boss like this to have an exclusive drop that only drops from him, like in the case of bael the elite warrior weapon, or these Troll Necro rings. But it seems like half of the loot that comes from these bosses only comes from them. You have basically every item that can be gotten in any previous campaign and it now scales to level 35 and drops from them. I don't like that, it's too much. I suppose it does give a large variety of gear we can choose from, but it also makes it really confusing as it's hard to know what gear is even out there to consider.
Hey Ener –

Out of ‘Thanks’ but… Thanks for your input about this and yes I believe that looking for gear gets confusing when all this gear is added into the game. Which is why I believe the CS should have different search capabilities – see my thread here (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114664-Suggestions-for-the-Consignment-Store), which I believe you have already contributed to, so thanks.

More than half of the loot that comes from them, comes ONLY from them. This is causing people to farm them constantly. Lv 35 firesquids are highly sought after. Lv 36 Ensorcelled Rings of Potency… etc.. etc…
You can’t farm this stuff ANYWHERE ELSE. And I can attest based on 20k kills worth of Bael hunting that this is one of the most boring farms I’ve ever conducted in any MMO ever. If it’s the plan to replace Elite with him I would definitely find a new game.


Bael dropped me quills brutality last weekend, and previously was a quills riposte - i cant name anything worse, less than 500 gold. :D
Yep,
I got about 2m worth of drops from Bael before the prices crashed. The BEST GEAR IN THE GAME…







Devs if you read anything, read this:

You have made a beautiful game here, that I love to play, I love to look at it, some RL friends have watched me play and while they started a toon a while back they never got into it. Now they’re looking at me run Elite Shuyal and they’re going OMG that looks SOOOO AWESOME!!!

This morning, just to see if I could –I hunted Bael in Harbor and Skull Cove. I did 4 runs. With my eyes closed.
How can one enjoy the beauty of a game, if they can play it without looking?

[Swede]

We're looking at quite a few changes to Bael II and Krunch II with this upcoming patch. They were never intended to be farmed, but rather something lower level players would get lucky and find and then tell their guild/friends about.

Their loot tables have been changed to have less chance of dropping the very best items out of them. They're still chock-full of only pinks but won't have as big of a chance to drop Architect etc.

In addition, they have now been moved and have a different way of spawning in that won't be so easy to figure out by just running up to the spot where you know they are and see if they're there.

[Deadroth]

Swede - Best dev ever XD Always announcin good news ! Thats what we wanna to hear XD

[Alrisaia]

We're looking at quite a few changes to Bael II and Krunch II with this upcoming patch. They were never intended to be farmed, but rather something lower level players would get lucky and find and then tell their guild/friends about.

Their loot tables have been changed to have less chance of dropping the very best items out of them. They're still chock-full of only pinks but won't have as big of a chance to drop Architect etc.

In addition, they have now been moved and have a different way of spawning in that won't be so easy to figure out by just running up to the spot where you know they are and see if they're there.

Swede, I'm all out of thanks.... But I'm not out of love - I love you.

[Taejo]

We're looking at quite a few changes to Bael II and Krunch II with this upcoming patch. They were never intended to be farmed, but rather something lower level players would get lucky and find and then tell their guild/friends about.

Their loot tables have been changed to have less chance of dropping the very best items out of them. They're still chock-full of only pinks but won't have as big of a chance to drop Architect etc.

In addition, they have now been moved and have a different way of spawning in that won't be so easy to figure out by just running up to the spot where you know they are and see if they're there.

The Devs of this game never cease to amaze me. Thank you for listening - I hope the adjustments are accommodating to all of AL's players and the overall reparation of the the game's economy.

[Joncheese]

Thanks Devs! Great result:drunk:

[Emmacheese]

Wooo hoooo :vwub: Thank you Swede !



We're looking at quite a few changes to Bael II and Krunch II with this upcoming patch. They were never intended to be farmed, but rather something lower level players would get lucky and find and then tell their guild/friends about.

Their loot tables have been changed to have less chance of dropping the very best items out of them. They're still chock-full of only pinks but won't have as big of a chance to drop Architect etc.

In addition, they have now been moved and have a different way of spawning in that won't be so easy to figure out by just running up to the spot where you know they are and see if they're there.

[arun_may16]

Wow, can't wait to see new bael, hope I have the luck.

[keikali]

We're looking at quite a few changes to Bael II and Krunch II with this upcoming patch. They were never intended to be farmed, but rather something lower level players would get lucky and find and then tell their guild/friends about.

Their loot tables have been changed to have less chance of dropping the very best items out of them. They're still chock-full of only pinks but won't have as big of a chance to drop Architect etc.

In addition, they have now been moved and have a different way of spawning in that won't be so easy to figure out by just running up to the spot where you know they are and see if they're there.

I like this change.

Now its a matter of time to figure out HOW to spawn him.

[okahef]

this is dumb thread no real PrO farmers farm for bael n krunch , maybe once in a while, but it is just idiotic to spend hours looking for a random spawn for one chance at loot droppin compared to running elites with pro group in 5 minutes. only noobs are chasing krunch and bael or someone who wants that troll ring, I think the way krunch and bael are is great I couldn't have done it better seldoms spawns should equal great loot.

[Taejo]

this is dumb thread no real PrO farmers farm for bael n krunch , maybe once in a while, but it is just idiotic to spend hours looking for a random spawn for one chance at loot droppin compared to running elites with pro group in 5 minutes. only noobs are chasing krunch and bael or someone who wants that troll ring, I think the way krunch and bael are is great I couldn't have done it better seldoms spawns should equal great loot.

I love this word "pro" that everyone throws around. Please define what a "pro farmer" is to Alrisaia - because he's obviously a "noob" for posting this thread.

Please leave your non-constructive rants elsewhere.

[Swede]

Unfortunately moving them didn't make it in today's patch. Will try to get this to you guys tomorrow. The changes to their loot tables are still in today's patch though.

[Alrisaia]

this is dumb thread no real PrO farmers farm for bael n krunch , maybe once in a while, but it is just idiotic to spend hours looking for a random spawn for one chance at loot droppin compared to running elites with pro group in 5 minutes. only noobs are chasing krunch and bael or someone who wants that troll ring, I think the way krunch and bael are is great I couldn't have done it better seldoms spawns should equal great loot.


HAHA I love this guy. Not only did he show us an excellent example of ruining (a psychological technique used to bring out your own point in someone else’s words by making THEM say EXACTLY what it is you’re saying), but he also managed to indicate a great point of his own.

Okahef,
Allow me to explain. I’ll try to keep it brief, I know reading a wall of text isn’t fun… first I’ll recap what you said:
Pros farm for gear in elite, because it takes them only 5 minutes with a pro team and they would be idiots to farm bael or krunch because it’s too time consuming.
TRUE
Noobs are the only toons chasing bael and krunch (or someone who wants that troll ring).
TRUE

What you’re saying – and YOU are saying it, is that noobs farm bael and krunch, and you’re absolutely right, although I would never call someone a noob in the game or any other for that matter and use it in a derogatory manner.

What this thread is about, is that PRO farmers (as you call them) are being undercut with prices because so many NOOB farmers are farming the same gear. Think about it for just a second… Supply : Demand ratio is important for an economy. If there’s too much supply (farmers) and low demand (buyers) your stuff won’t sell no matter how fast you can farm it from whatever MOB you’re getting it from.

[Rare]

this is dumb thread no real PrO farmers farm for bael n krunch , maybe once in a while, but it is just idiotic to spend hours looking for a random spawn for one chance at loot droppin compared to running elites with pro group in 5 minutes. only noobs are chasing krunch and bael or someone who wants that troll ring, I think the way krunch and bael are is great I couldn't have done it better seldoms spawns should equal great loot.

LOL. Here is what I took from this post:

"I am so mad. I use to farm Bael II and Krunch and now I can't because you chagned it on me"

[Nature]

We're looking at quite a few changes to Bael II and Krunch II with this upcoming patch. They were never intended to be farmed, but rather something lower level players would get lucky and find and then tell their guild/friends about.

Their loot tables have been changed to have less chance of dropping the very best items out of them. They're still chock-full of only pinks but won't have as big of a chance to drop Architect etc.

In addition, they have now been moved and have a different way of spawning in that won't be so easy to figure out by just running up to the spot where you know they are and see if they're there.

:love_heart: Thank you!

[Veluthe]

We're looking at quite a few changes to Bael II and Krunch II with this upcoming patch. They were never intended to be farmed, but rather something lower level players would get lucky and find and then tell their guild/friends about.

Their loot tables have been changed to have less chance of dropping the very best items out of them. They're still chock-full of only pinks but won't have as big of a chance to drop Architect etc.

In addition, they have now been moved and have a different way of spawning in that won't be so easy to figure out by just running up to the spot where you know they are and see if they're there.

I dont really agree with this decision as im one who farmed them i admit. But i understand and respect you guys trying to make the game equal for everyone. So thanks .:)

Now im off to hunt and figure out new spawn/loot changes. I wonder what you mean by saying moved them and new way of spawning. Do they still spawn same maps? Do they spawn where normal boss usually does now? But i guess well have figure that out ourselves lol.

[Zanpakuto]

Never even seen one lol

[Energizeric]

Unfortunately moving them didn't make it in today's patch. Will try to get this to you guys tomorrow. The changes to their loot tables are still in today's patch though.

Get ready for some big bael/krunch hunts this weekend before they go hiding! haha

[Joncheese]

LOL. Here is what I took from this post:

"I am so mad. I use to farm Bael II and Krunch and now I can't because you chagned it on me"

Hahahahahahah

[GoodSyntax]

Swede - You're a rock star! Thanks for listening to the community!

I love the idea that you get unique loot from Bael and Krunch (in the form of Wrath of Bael and Troll Necro Rings). I would like to see more unique loot like this - not just from these two but all of the elite bosses.

There is a reason that only a handful of elite maps are consistently farmed. We are looking for boss specific eggs and/or boss specific elite pinks like Firesquid. Having boss-specific, elite loot ensures that these things retain value, so it would be nice to see more targets to farm.

Also, in my opinion, Bael and Krunch are far too easy to defeat. There is no reason why I should be able to solo them in a minute. Their attacks land for relatively minor damage so that just adds to the low risk factor of taking them on.

I would much rather see something more like Truell, where you need a good team, high damage and lots of patience to kill. Instead of Bael and Krunch, I would prefer a higher spawn rate (maybe 5% chance?) of Truell with specific, top-end loot (like the Troll Necro Rings). Then, it becomes more a matter of do you want to invite friends/guidies and commit to a 15 minute fight burning hundreds of pots at a 10% chance to drop a Troll Ring, 30% chance to drop 50k or 60% chance to drop an elite golden chest. This would make the risk/reward more inline with what I think expectations should be and help prop the market back up for Architect gear.

[H2N]

Get ready for some big bael/krunch hunts this weekend before they go hiding! haha

Sorry. They went into hiding with today's update http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?116028-2013-09-13-Content-Update-(129855)

Good luck hunting this weekend though.

[Desperoto]

The purpose of this thread is to provide a sounding board for those of us who believe that Bael II and Krunch's appearance has a chance to ruin the end game content of Arcane Legends.

Please keep the thread constructive, and concise with your thoughts and ideas for how and why Bael II and Krunch have caused your behavior in game to change - specifically related to your acquisition and use of platinum - as well as ideas on how you believe they could be a valuable addition to the game.

While I think having Elite bosses pop up during regular map battles is a really cool idea, I disagree with them having the kind of end game elite loot that they have as well as their positioning in the game.

That being said here are some thoughts I had with regards to how some minor changes to Bael II and Krunch to be considered.


Problem
I believe that the amount of loot being flooded into the game as a result of Bael and Krunch is causing people to reconsider what they spend their time doing. This poses a multifaceted problem that STS should consider reviewing based on the impacts below.

Impact
Since players farm / hunt for bael and krunch more frequently than running Elite maps, we spend less Plat on:

revives
luck elixers
enhancement elixers

Since Bael and Krunch drop the best gear in the game, there's no need for me to buy a Shadow Plat bundle since I can

find the best gear in the game super cheap at the CS
farm for bael and krunch with little to no risk other than time invested, my attention doesn't even need to be on the game 100% of the time
I could hunt for Bael or Krunch wearing all blue gear and needn't worry about not being able to kill the 'boss' since I can just invite some friends to kill him for me


Solution
While I am at a loss for a solution - I have some ideas that might take us in the right direction to begin with.


Bael & Krunch could randomly spawn when the boss of their respective maps reaches 50% health at the boss' respective spawn point.
Bael & Krunch could have their loot tables updated to include either

a) only level 35 versions of the best gear in the game or
b) no elite gear from Shuyal

Bael & Krunch could have their spawn rates reduced to such a minuscule amount that they would be fought the way STS intended


Thnx for ruining the way to get rich for non-spenders ;)

[Haligali]

We're looking at quite a few changes to Bael II and Krunch II with this upcoming patch. They were never intended to be farmed, but rather something lower level players would get lucky and find and then tell their guild/friends about.

Their loot tables have been changed to have less chance of dropping the very best items out of them. They're still chock-full of only pinks but won't have as big of a chance to drop Architect etc.

In addition, they have now been moved and have a different way of spawning in that won't be so easy to figure out by just running up to the spot where you know they are and see if they're there.

rly? http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?103554-Feedback-Request-No-more-Elite-Dungeons&highlight=elite+dungeons

they have too many special drops, that only comes from them: ensorcelled rings lvl36, divine pendant lvl36, superb amulets lvl36, firesquid lvl35, etc etc..

if we cannot farm, these good equipments will disappear from market, just removing the nordr and shuyal drops from their loot table would have been enough in my opinion :)

[Taejo]

Thnx for ruining the way to get rich for non-spenders ;)

Alrisaia (and the majority of supporters of his thread) doesn't convert plat to gold nor does he open crates. There's several other ways to get rich in this game, and for 4 seasons prior to Bael/Krunch being added this is how we played the game. Unfortunately for those who seek to be successful via "easy street", reverting back to these methods will be a change of pace due to the amount of effort involved - kind of like real life.

[Alrisaia]

Thnx for ruining the way to get rich for non-spenders ;)

So, you're welcome to provide constructive feedback and criticism to STS, they listen to the community quite a bit. Additionally, I'm guessing this thread isn't what *spurred* the changes, perhaps it confirmed for them what they had already considered doing. Being that I started this thread earlier in the week and they updated Bael today... My assumption is that is clearly not enough time to have made such a change. I could be wrong, and if I am then I'm flattered that it was my thread that caused this.

You're also welcome to run Elites with me anytime if you'd like to learn the best ways to farm those maps, since that's where the best gear in the game is and will be farmed from now on - you know, the best gear in the game coming from the hardest areas in the game... makes sense right? plat spender or not.

I think your sarcastic tone was uncalled for however and I don't appreciate it in a thread meant to be a constructive place for feedback. I find it grossly out of place.

@Haligali - Do you believe that it's not *OK* to have a few unique items that drop from extremely rare bosses in an MMORPG? I've seen this format used often and I remember a bow in DAOC that was the only one on the server, I forget the guy's name, but he worked extremely hard to get it. Likewise the stats it carried were on par with what should be a unique item. For me, it sure is a curiosity why everyone in this game believes that they *have* to have the best gear in the game to have fun. Maybe that's just me... Maybe that stems back to my old D&D days when our level 18 characters we had played for years didn't even have the best gear in the game and still weren't level capped (lv 20 was the cap)... we had a good time - it was about adventuring and challenge, it wasn't about farm the best loot so that I can 'beat the game'.

Anyway - Thank you STS for doing the right thing for the AL economy and player base as a whole. I know you can't please everyone but I believe you do a fantastic job trying.

Regards,
- Alri

[Haligali]

@Haligali - Do you believe that it's not *OK* to have a few unique items that drop from extremely rare bosses in an MMORPG?


yes, a few is ok (troll rings, wrath of bael), but there is too many (legend ring assault lvl36, ensorcelled rings lvl36, divine pendant lvl36, firesquid lvl35, superb lvl36, miraculous lvl36...) that only comes from them in this season.

today i farmed at elite oltgar with a warrior, who was wearing mighty vorpal sword. i was surprised and asked him whats the reason of the cool retro weapon, he answered that the sword is lvl35, and he loves the crit proc.

[Energizeric]

Yeah I agree, there are just too many exclusive items that come from these bosses. Perhaps there should be one exclusive item that comes from each of them, which is how it seems to work with all other elite bosses.

[Alrisaia]

yes, a few is ok (troll rings, wrath of bael), but there is too many (legend ring assault lvl36, ensorcelled rings lvl36, divine pendant lvl36, firesquid lvl35, superb lvl36, miraculous lvl36...) that only comes from them in this season.

today i farmed at elite oltgar with a warrior, who was wearing mighty vorpal sword. i was surprised and asked him whats the reason of the cool retro weapon, he answered that the sword is lvl35, and he loves the crit proc.

Ok - so this I agree with. If they're going to drop older season gear, it should scale to the same level as the other maps do. OR they should scale all the gear up the same way...

Heck - why not make some of the older bosses' loot tables have these items at random levels, 15&16, 20&21, 25&26, 30&31, 35&36

I've said this a number of times.

[Haligali]

Ok - so this I agree with. If they're going to drop older season gear, it should scale to the same level as the other maps do. OR they should scale all the gear up the same way...

Heck - why not make some of the older bosses' loot tables have these items at random levels, 15&16, 20&21, 25&26, 30&31, 35&36

I've said this a number of times.

I find it good, that old weapons coloring the range, perhaps vorpal isnt the best dmg, nor the best dps but has lovely proc.

[Haligali]

One thing that crossed my mind: what if someone hasnt got the bael II and krunch II APs, now its very hard to get them.. :/

The former spawn rate was low enough, ~20k pve kills and i didnt found them this week, only friends invited me.

[Aziiii]

Ty for all the complains and chit chat in forums ,now they moved them :) ty so much

[Deadroth]

Good. Bael n Krunch should be moved. Many farmers would destroy al economy by insta farm them.

[Taejo]

One thing that crossed my mind: what if someone hasnt got the bael II and krunch II APs, now its very hard to get them.. :/

The former spawn rate was low enough, ~20k pve kills and i didnt found them this week, only friends invited me.

Yes, I thought of this recently as well. It will certainly be more of a challenge now, but not impossible. I think these APs are a good balance for those who can't efficiently collect the 5k and 10k flag (trade off of 200 APs), especially for casual players. Like the Arena Challenger, finding a rare spawn should take a considerable amount of time and be a challenge. Too many players get upset when they realize how much time is involved with collecting some achievements. To this I ask: what else are you going to spend your time on? It's good have goals which stretch the longevity of a game. This is why Energizeric's new achievements thread is so important for AL's future.

[Uzii]

Yes, I thought of this recently as well. It will certainly be more of a challenge now, but not impossible. I think these APs are a good balance for those who can't efficiently collect the 5k and 10k flag (trade off of 200 APs), especially for casual players. Like the Arena Challenger, finding a rare spawn should take a considerable amount of time and be a challenge. Too many players get upset when they realize how much time is involved with collecting some achievements. To this I ask: what else are you going to spend your time on? It's good have goals which stretch the longevity of a game. This is why Energizeric's new achievements thread is so important for AL's future.

Im sorry but i dont agree. This is not he right path the achievement should be. Its pure luck if i find him. if some friends find him and i happen to be online.
Too many times was said, and i can agree with, that the achievement should be strived for. But u know that in the end ur hard work will be rewarded. This is not the case with Bael/Krunch bc i can spent hours, weeks, months (i met challenger after 2 months of daily searching, Krunch never appear) trying to find them and can never find....

[Taejo]

Im sorry but i dont agree. This is not he right path the achievement should be. Its pure luck if i find him. if some friends find him and i happen to be online.
Too many times was said, and i can agree with, that the achievement should be strived for. But u know that in the end ur hard work will be rewarded. This is not the case with Bael/Krunch bc i can spent hours, weeks, months (i met challenger after 2 months of daily searching, Krunch never appear) trying to find them and can never find....

Well if I ever find them again I'll be sure to toss you a party invite :)

[Uzii]

Well if I ever find them again I'll be sure to toss you a party invite :)

lolz sure :)

[Energizeric]

As I've mentioned in another thread on the achievements, there should be so many achievements that no player feels compelled that they MUST have any specific achievement. There should be so many that nobody will ever get them all. So that way if you don't get the bael or krunch achievements, it's no big deal, you can move on to other achievements.

[Haligali]

We're looking at quite a few changes to Bael II and Krunch II with this upcoming patch. They were never intended to be farmed, but rather something lower level players would get lucky and find and then tell their guild/friends about.

Their loot tables have been changed to have less chance of dropping the very best items out of them. They're still chock-full of only pinks but won't have as big of a chance to drop Architect etc.

In addition, they have now been moved and have a different way of spawning in that won't be so easy to figure out by just running up to the spot where you know they are and see if they're there.

If "They were never intended to be farmed" then can you pls move their loot table someone else where we can farm? Because people farmed them for their loots, there is a high need for these items, idk add to the arena loot table, or scale up the old dungeons..

[Alrisaia]

If "They were never intended to be farmed" then can you pls move their loot table someone else where we can farm? Because people farmed them for their loots, there is a high need for these items, idk add to the arena loot table, or scale up the old dungeons..

Hali -

What you’re asking for is exactly why we requested their loot tables and their spawn methods be changed.
Because people farmed them for their loot.

The problem wasn’t actually their unique loot, it was in the fact that they dropped ‘other’ loot (like Architect Gear, and last season Noble Gear). See – since people are farming this stuff from these bosses, and man was it EASY to farm them, the prices of this gear fell significantly since their Supply skyrocketed.

Here’s the thing about loot farming:
Once item(s) are ‘overfarmed’ their value decreases, since their demand decreases. These are very basic economic concepts, but to illustrate: see the Supply and Demand Curve here:

41551

What STS has to strive for is that equilibrium – that center ‘sweat spot’ where Supply Meets Demand.
When you say high need, what you actually mean is: ‘high demand’ and you’re right – those items are currently in high demand.

The problem with high demand is that suddenly everyone wants to farm those high demand items and ‘get rich quick’. Well, bad news on that, because once an item is overfarmed – the value decreases, meaning that nobody can make any money on farming it because the demand decreases. Arena is actually another cause of the bad economy in this game but I’ll make another argument for that soon in another thread.

Here’s an example of a high demand item that’s NOT overfarmed: Archon Rings. WOW are these puppies holding their value – Applause to STS for adding these into the game.

[Venom]

About the shadow guard bundle.. Not just shadow guard but ANY bundle is there so people can get decent gear as a start right from lvl 1. It was never meant to be BEST gear anyway. People need to farm and earn the best gear (For now let's forget about the crate openers). Also, FYI, the shadow guard hood of potency is the best damage rogue hood (legendary) which can be bought only through bundle and hence has managed to retain its value. I see many in auction so doesnt matter if bael/krunch spawn a lot or less, people will buy bundles, its VERY useful, actually the BEST thing to buy with plat is a bundle. Bael/Krunch spawns have nothing to do with bundle.

[Haligali]

Nice chart Alri, but i think you are wrong. Lot of people still farms at harbor, but why? Answer is their unique loot: firesquid rod of assault lvl35 which worth 5m, and other high dps rods, demonlord lvl35, ensorcelled rings, divine assault amulet, these all worth 500k-1m+ i also made lot of money from drops. Architect gear is flooded the market by the arena, same as last season noble gear. (before even these rare bosses was annouced, market was full with cheap noble)

edit:

sry didnt read this: Arena is actually another cause of the bad economy in this game but I’ll make another argument for that soon in another thread. yes, i agree.

[Venom]

Nice chart Alri, but i think you are wrong. Lot of people still farms at harbor, but why? Answer is their unique loot: firesquid rod of assault lvl35 which worth 5m, and other high dps rods, demonlord lvl35, ensorcelled rings, divine assault amulet, these all worth 500k-1m+ i also made lot of money from drops. Architect gear is flooded the market by the arena, same as last season noble gear. (before even these rare bosses was annouced, market was full with cheap noble)

edit:

sry didnt read this: Arena is actually another cause of the bad economy in this game but I’ll make another argument for that soon in another thread. yes, i agree.

Yes and the value of squids, demonlords, rings is still high coz the drops are rare.

[Taejo]

If "They were never intended to be farmed" then can you pls move their loot table someone else where we can farm? Because people farmed them for their loots, there is a high need for these items, idk add to the arena loot table, or scale up the old dungeons..

If they move Bael/Krunch's old loot table over to Arena, then they would need to keep it's difficulty the same and have the drop rates super low. This is to prevent a repeat of the impacts made on the economy. I know arena is already tough; but let's face it - some groups are already farming this place day and night, and it will be ever more sought after if they added more loot! Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to this idea - it's better than Architect helms/armor dropping, which you're supposed to be hunting Wraith Heart and Inan'hesh for! It also makes a bit of sense having older loot (scaled up) dropping from older bosses - so there's a theme there as well. But I cannot stress enough: keep the Arena's difficulty the same and the drop rates very low!

As far as what to do with Bael/Krunch's loot tables: since they're very rare and very hard, keep these guys as a guinea pigs for introducing new loot into the game. Reduce their loot table down to just the special jewelry they dropped (can't think of names, Power Ring or something?), Wrath of Bael, Troll Necromatic ring, and Elite Golden Puzzleboxes. From there, introduce new items and just add them to Bael/Krunch's loot table. They will be very unique, rare, and tough to get items which will keep players busy and interested.

[Haligali]

Yes and the value of squids, demonlords, rings is still high coz the drops are rare.

I know what you fear, but i think its the successful model of drop system: you cannot farm a specific item, cause the range of the possible drops so big, this alone will guarantee that the items will hold their value for long time. The another one is the very very rare drops from elite mobs(archon rings)
Before last update everyone farmed bael/krunch and only a few specific item (eg firesquid assault) dropped.

@Taejo

" it's better than Architect helms/armor dropping, which you're supposed to be hunting Wraith Heart and Inan'hesh for!"

exactly

[Alrisaia]

Nice chart Alri, but i think you are wrong.

How exactly is that chart wrong?



Lot of people still farms at harbor, but why? Answer is their unique loot: firesquid rod of assault lvl35 which worth 5m

This is another reason I said that the loot scaling should be changed... As long as this type of loot drops from them they will be farmed. What's different is that fewer people are farming them, thus fewer of the Elite Loot drops are occurring and will hopefully help to normalize the market we're in.
Heck - maybe people will realize that farming Archon rings is a smarter investment of their time... I know I have.



and other high dps rods, demonlord lvl35, ensorcelled rings, divine assault amulet, these all worth 500k-1m+ i also made lot of money from drops. Architect gear is flooded the market by the arena, same as last season noble gear. (before even these rare bosses was annouced, market was full with cheap noble)
edit:
sry didnt read this: Arena is actually another cause of the bad economy in this game but I’ll make another argument for that soon in another thread. yes, i agree.
Yep - and I think Arena should be changed too. I don't see any reason why people who want to run 'Normal Maps' need the BEST ELITE gear in the game. It just baffles me. I ran almost the entire last season wearing... take a huge guess: Champion's Gear.
I also wore a blue ring, and a Lv 30 Swirling amulet and used Mountain's Teeth of Tactics up until about mid July.
Here's the thing for me, and really for anyone:
Strategy>Skill>Gear
I don't care who you are, if you're in the best gear it doesn't matter if you use the wrong skillset and the wrong strategies.
However, Using the RIGHT gear and the RIGHT strategies can always overcome a shortage of good gear.

I had a blast playing this game. Sometimes people have a hard time understanding that you can have fun playing a game even if you don't have the best gear.

Hali you farmed LMM often no? I imagine you did since you had the LB time there last season. Well, I'll admit something about LMM - I didn't know Snaggletooth and Wrathjaw dropped there... funny right. Well, once I found out, my entire guild found out, and we farmed the junk out of that place. Once my guild found out it seemed that more and more people found out about it and come to see... what happened to Snag and Wrath.

[Haligali]

Yes, i farmed around ~50 eggs in lmm last season. Egg prices behave differently, more stable than item prices, because once you hatched, cant resell. Snaggletooth was around 80-120k, wrath jaw 100-140k in whole season, price dropped significantly this season since old dungeons doesnt scaled to max lvl, but this affected the other elite egg prices too (malison, kettle).

[Joncheese]

One thing that crossed my mind: what if someone hasnt got the bael II and krunch II APs, now its very hard to get them.. :/

The former spawn rate was low enough, ~20k pve kills and i didnt found them this week, only friends invited me.

Hi Hali, it sucks i agree, but it is still possible. The 'Brunch Hunter' in our guild has found him twice already. I personnally think its now an AP that poses a great challenge and should be embraced. :)

[Alrisaia]

Yes, i farmed around ~50 eggs in lmm last season. Egg prices behave differently, more stable than item prices, because once you hatched, cant resell. Snaggletooth was around 80-120k, wrath jaw 100-140k in whole season, price dropped significantly this season since old dungeons doesnt scaled to max lvl, but this affected the other elite egg prices too (malison, kettle).

i still think you're missing the point.

so even though egg prices are inherently more stable (because they're consumable) which really you could say about the lv36 arch weapons too... the process dropped significantly due to over farming?

if that's what you're saying i think you do understand.

[Haligali]

i still think you're missing the point.

so even though egg prices are inherently more stable (because they're consumable) which really you could say about the lv36 arch weapons too... the process dropped significantly due to over farming?

if that's what you're saying i think you do understand.

The arch weapons can be sold anytime, so even if the drop chance are reduced to 0, they will be on market for a long time.

Btw now the entombed and arch blade prices started to fall, since noone farms bael and back to oltgar and shades.

[Alrisaia]

To respond to this with a little more clarity:

Yes, i farmed around ~50 eggs in lmm last season. Egg prices behave differently, more stable than item prices, because once you hatched, cant resell. Snaggletooth was around 80-120k, wrath jaw 100-140k in whole season, price dropped significantly this season since old dungeons doesnt scaled to max lvl, but this affected the other elite egg prices too (malison, kettle).

Architect Gear is *almost* consumable gear… especially the weapons. What I mean by that is, until next season, chances are people aren’t going to be selling their Architect Blade of Assault. Nor their Architect Pylon of (whatever the best mage one is)… with the exception of people who perhaps end up with an Arcane weapon.

As for the armor – I belive it’s less consumable due to Mythic armor upgrades and players throughout the season will be looking to upgrade their armor…

So – in response, the Architect Gear should behave (economically speaking) very similarly to Eggs in that, when someone (other than a merchant) buys the gear, their intent is to ‘use’ the gear all season, and not resell it.

Also...

The arch weapons can be sold anytime, so even if the drop chance are reduced to 0, they will be on market for a long time.

Btw now the entombed and arch blade prices started to fall, since noone farms bael and back to oltgar and shades.

Allow me to elaborate on your position if I can… in an effort to
a) ensure I understand it properly, and…
b) to ensure it’s spelled out more clearly and with more detail:

The arch weapons can be sold anytime.
There are pretty much always buyers for Arch weapons (with the exception of the Quills, and that’s somewhat unrelated to Bael / Krunch because of the buggy fields map).
Otherwise, you can pretty much always find a buyer for a Pylon or a Blade…
So – this seems about right to me

Even if the drop chance is reduced to 0…
If the Bael & Krunch’s drop rate were reduced to 0 with regards to Arc gear (armor and weapons), supply would decrease over the long run and prices would begin to rise. There’s still an issue with the Arena, but we’re working on some suggestions for that aspect of the game also, and hope to have something soon.

Btw now the Entombed and arch blade prices started to fall since no one farms bael and they have returned back to oltgar and shades:
Probably true: Oltgar is farmed because of the daily quest, the entombed hammer is sort of a ‘side effect’ of people going to their most familiar Nordr map (even though it’s not necessarily the fastest) in order to farm their EGWs.
Shades is a great place for people to be farming – I’m so happy they’ve returned to Elite maps and the Risk:Reward balance has been returned. This was the entire purpose of our thread and why we wanted to have Bael and Krunch changed.



So – to sum it up, what was possibly a major cause for concern for the AL economy has been addressed by STS / STG to ensure that Elite Maps remain the best place to farm for the best gear (maybe with the exception of the Arena), and in order to obtain the best gear in the game you must experience the highest risks. /applause from me STS.

[Uzii]

...There’s still an issue with the Arena, but we’re working on some suggestions for that aspect of the game also, and hope to have something soon.....

...So – to sum it up, what was possibly a major cause for concern for the AL economy has been addressed by STS / STG to ensure that Elite Maps remain the best place to farm for the best gear (maybe with the exception of the Arena), and in order to obtain the best gear in the game you must experience the highest risks. /applause from me STS.

You all seem to do a very good job ruining the casual aspect of the game. Dont really care for Bael/Krunch as they were all luck for me and not much challenge. I agree that their loot table containing "best" elite gear was too much, so probably just to get rid of that would be enough and keep them as they were.
So ur "concern" abt arena, well i hope u really come up with something good without ruining other aspect of the game. Arena is hard enough, for players without mythic gear even harder, so its there more abt gear in first place then skills, first u must survive then fight. And abt loot, well i dont know, its like elite, more greens then actually legendaries or elite golden chests.
It was hard enough last season. And its natural that "best" gear should drop there.

The problem with gear is also that not every pink u get its actually useful. If the was more diverse and every stat was somehow useful, every peace of gear u can use for different situations, so for example STR/INT armor for rogue would had some value bc there will be some demand for it, right now is none. And also everyone is after mythics. Bc thats actually the best gear for this season, as for past seasons too. And it drops from locked crates. Yes from elite golden war and pirate chests too, but most come from crates. So talking abt risk in this case is just lol. And the prices of mythics comes down bc since february i dont really want to imagine how many crates was opened.
So u cant right now say whats real demand for elite best gear, bc a lot of players already has upgraded mythic armor and dont need other, or who dont is probably saving up for it. So the prices and demand is distorted.

So what i want to say is right now we have elite - hard - mostly hard work lots of poitions, and sadly no reward most of the time. Arena - right now on par with elite, i mean too much hard work and no reward. And Bael/Krunch - on par with elite.
Gamer play no plat users so luck elixirs or plat revives r no option for them.

The players that own arena also own elite, but where r the majority of the players? U cant judge something is hard or easy only after these players.

Thers no casual aspect of game ppl were striving for since the beginning of the game, elite Jarl is good example. Everyone was farming it bc it was less time consuming and he was droping best gear. Same for Undim fields, but it keeps to be nerfed and nerfed.Ppl r always trying to have something like that no matter what. If they cant find anything like that i dont see a reason for them to play. So elite players can play only with themselves.

So there needs to be balance between elite and casual, and right now u r on the way to destroy it.

[Taejo]

U seem to do a very good job ruining the casual aspect of the game. Dont really care for Bael/Krunch as they were all luck for me and not much challenge. I agree that their loot table containing "best" elite gear was too much, so probably just to get rid of that would be enough and keep them as they were.
So ur "concern" abt arena, well i hope u really come up with something good without ruining other aspect of the game. Arena is hard enough, for players without mythic gear even harder, so its there more abt gear in first place then skills, first u must survive then fight. And abt loot, well i dont know, its like elite, more greens then actually legendaries or elite golden chests.
It was hard enough last season. And its natural that "best" gear should drop there.

The problem with gear is also that not every pink u get its actually useful. If the was more diverse and every stat was somehow useful, every peace of gear u can use for different situations, so for example STR/INT armor for rogue would had some value bc there will be some demand for it, right now is none. And also everyone is after mythics. Bc thats actually the best gear for this season, as for past seasons too. And it drops from locked crates. Yes from elite golden war and pirate chests too, but most come from crates. So talking abt risk in this case is just lol. And the prices of mythics comes down bc since february i dont really want to imagine how many crates was opened.
So u cant right now say whats real demand for elite best gear, bc a lot of players already has upgraded mythic armor and dont need other, or who dont is probably saving up for it. So the prices and demand is distorted.

So what i want to say is right now we have elite - hard - mostly hard work lots of poitions, and sadly no reward most of the time. Arena - right now on par with elite, i mean too much hard work and no reward. And Bael/Krunch - on par with elite.
Gamer play no plat users so luck elixirs or plat revives r no option for them.

The players that own arena also own elite, but where r the majority of the players? U cant judge something is hard or easy only after these players.

Thers no casual aspect of game ppl were striving for since the beginning of the game, elite Jarl is good example. Everyone was farming it bc it was less time consuming and he was droping best gear. Same for Undim fields, but it keeps to be nerfed and nerfed.Ppl r always trying to have something like that no matter what. If they cant find anything like that i dont see a reason for them to play. So elite players can play only with themselves.

So there needs to be balance between elite and casual, and right now u r on the way to destroy it.

I don't think it's quite fair to blame Alrisaia for the entire game changing. First of all, many of us planted the ideas in his head, supported his post, and plead our suggestions. Second of all, STG isn't going to simply read one thread and decide "Oh, what a great idea that will change the entire game". No, their team assesses and evaluates major changes before making them. Some examples: Hook upgrade, Gale Force changes, Arcane pet upgrades, and so on. Also, have many of you forgotten about Swede's thread on getting rid of elite maps? It was many of the same people who are being blamed for Bael/Krunch's fix who suggested they add rare spawns in order to please the casual gamers in the first place. Unfortunately, Bael/Krunch were not implemented in the correct fashion the first time around, so now it looks like they were 'nerfed' them based on this single thread and that it's all our fault for ruining a 'casual aspect' of the game.

Your suggestions and feedback are most welcome and appreciated by STG just the same as Alrisaia's are. Let's not play the blame game here.

[Uzii]

I don't think it's quite fair to blame Alrisaia for the entire game changing. First of all, many of us planted the ideas in his head, supported his post, and plead our suggestions. Second of all, STG isn't going to simply read one thread and decide "Oh, what a great idea that will change the entire game". No, their team assesses and evaluates major changes before making them. Some examples: Hook upgrade, Gale Force changes, Arcane pet upgrades, and so on. Also, have many of you forgotten about Swede's thread on getting rid of elite maps? It was many of the same people who are being blamed for Bael/Krunch's nerf who suggested they add rare spawns in order to please the casual gamers. It's really sad that people don't do their homework before posting these nasty comments. The reason isn't because its a bad idea, they just went about implementing it wrong (Bael/Krunch's issues).

Your suggestions and feedback are most welcome and appreciated by STG just the same as Alrisaia's are. Let's not play the blame game here.

from whole my post u only took that first sentence? (and i meant all of u not just Alrisaia)
.....

Not playing the blame game here, if u read ull know.

And u just said it, not every idea brought up here on forums is a good idea, it went wrong. And right now im seeing to go wrong with these suggestions also, my opinion.
And pls dont twist my words, thank you.

[Taejo]

U seem to do a very good job ruining the casual aspect of the game.

So there needs to be balance between elite and casual, and right now u r on the way to destroy it.

Two sentences, actually. I'm not 'twisting' your words. You quoted Alrisaia and used the word "You" (which you typed: U) throughout your post. That generally means you're referring to a specific person. So if you wanted to generalize and address all of us, you could have said "You and <names>" or "You all are", etc.


And u just said it, not every idea brought up here on forums is a good idea, it went wrong. And right now im seeing to go wrong with these suggestions also, my opinion.

Ok, fair enough. Can you please quote anywhere on this forum where we asked STG to 1. Move their locations and/or 2. Make it so you have to clear the entire map + boss to get them to maybe spawn? Our primary requisition was that they reduce the loot table. So again I'll say it: STG is capable of making their own decisions, and they continuously do so. Sure, our suggestions and complaints might urge them to change or fix something; but in the end to say that we are at fault for 'ruining the casual aspect of the game' is absurd. Guess what? If you don't like the changes, start your own thread to have them reversed instead of sitting here blaming us.

So yes, your entire post looks like a blame flame.

[Justg]

Gonna close this one up now folks, thanks!

*click*