Endgame Nerf

[Sheugokin]

How is PvP now? A drastic change? No more one shots or crazy dodge?

[Roberto077]

More 1 shots and birds don't dodge. Rangers are better than birds now. Pallies are unknown to me. Bears kill everything. Int mages can instant kill 3 birds with 1 fire storm.

[Zapoke]

It's a work in progress. :p

[Chickenrunnn]

More 1 shots and birds don't dodge. Rangers are better than birds now. Pallies are unknown to me. Bears kill everything. Int mages can instant kill 3 birds with 1 fire storm.

You forgot the rhino living against a 5vs1 :)..

Just give them time to fix ^^.. I'm sure they'll make it perfect way in some days :D

[CrimsonTider]

I am not sure why people continue to say birds are so bad. I may not dodge as much, but it is not that bad. Maybe it is because I learned during Sewer cap when birds had even less dodge than now.

[razerfingers]

I am not sure why people continue to say birds are so bad. I may not dodge as much, but it is not that bad. Maybe it is because I learned during Sewer cap when birds had even less dodge than now.

Right, but then most of the fun birds would use xbow and kite not use the custom recurve set and tank everyone with that hella pro 51 crit ;)

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

[CrimsonTider]

Right, but then most of the fun birds would use xbow and kite not use the custom recurve set and tank everyone with that hella pro 51 crit ;)

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

I actually used Raid Recurve set over Custom because... well, I was broke back then. :p

[razerfingers]

I actually used Raid Recurve set over Custom because... well, I was broke back then. :p

Haha it all still looked good! :D just sparkle diffrence right?

Sent using blood on a bathroom wall.

[MightyMicah]

I actually used Raid Recurve set over Custom because... well, I was broke back then. :p

"Broke" back then. Haha Back then that was good money. I couldn't even afford a sewer set back then...

[XghostzX]

I actually used Raid Recurve set over Custom because... well, I was broke back then. :p

"Broke" back then. Haha Back then that was good money. I couldn't even afford a sewer set back then...

Haha yeah, it was like 500k max for a set too.

[razerfingers]

Haha yeah, it was like 500k max for a set too.

LOL you're thinking of the lvl 50 sets? haha

[Zeus]

Haha yeah, it was like 500k max for a set too.

Nah man, it was like 2m for normal raid and like 4m for custom. .-.

That's when having even one gold cap was a lot!

[Gaunab]

I'm pretty sure I had to save up well above 2Mil back then to buy a Custom Set. :disillusionment: The other sets were cheaper tho iirc. Most birds used recurves because they had better damage, crit, regen, dps and a blind proc which made it superior for FFA/Ctf (xbow was arguably better in 1v1 scenarios).

I find it hard to compare the "rebalanced" 76 PvP to the gorious days of Sewer PvP because too much of the game mechanics have changed. Kiting took much more skill and was more useful back then because the range didn't shift depending on wether you moved towards or away from your target and the advantage gained from hiding behind trees/corners wasn't as huge as it is nowadays.

I think the reduction in dodge and crit was a right move towards balanced PvP (str sets base dodge is still too high tho), but the balance between armor and damage still needs to be adjusted to get closer to what PvP felt like during sewer days.

[Sheugokin]

Sorry Gaunab....I didn't PvP during the Sewers. JUST A NOOB! Lol and still am!

[CrimsonTider]

Well... I say "broke" because back then, I didn't start PvP until about a month before Nuri's came out. I farmed every second I played and literally used ALL of my drops. (Actually, I gave a few bows away.) I never broke 1 mil til Humania... fo rizzle.

[Lovingly]

It's a work in progress. :p

Seems like a great start:p

[Chickenrunnn]

Nah man, it was like 2m for normal raid and like 4m for custom. .-.

That's when having even one gold cap was a lot!

I remember selling a Recipe for custom recurve bow for 1.111.111 :)

First time I reached the million :O


Never reached it back :(:blue::sorrow::vcry:

[lonleybird]

Omg, ok let me explain for all those people saying saying birds crying they dont have one shots anymore need to gtfo. this isnt how it was in sewers OR ao3, u dont know what gf ur talking about. Birds are by far one of worst classes now. ok and makes a LOT of sense. Rhinos=support tank ,mage = support, bears=tank, birds= DAMAGE foxes = damage. BUT all the classes do more DAMAGE then the DAMAGE class.... strange

[CrimsonTider]

Omg, ok let me explain for all those people saying saying birds crying they dont have one shots anymore need to gtfo. this isnt how it was in sewers OR ao3, u dont know what gf ur talking about. Birds are by far one of worst classes now. ok and makes a LOT of sense. Rhinos=support tank ,mage = support, bears=tank, birds= DAMAGE foxes = damage. BUT all the classes do more DAMAGE then the DAMAGE class.... strange


Not sure what you are trying to say. Not seeing anyone "crying" on this thread.

Birds are absolutely not the worse class and are just as viable now as they were before the nerf. Only statements being made is now that dodge has been brought back a little, it is exposingthe birds who were counting on it to just rush in for kills. And yes, it is very similar to how it was in Sewers. Birds had more crit back then, but that made up for the fact they had practically zero dodge. And I hate to break it to you, but birds are still the highest damage output class in the game. Not sure where you got that all classes are stronger now.

Might want to tone it down a bit when you post as the discussion was pretty productive before this post.

[Extreme]

I still have fun playing bird, Just more "Luck" factor vs other birds then before re balance. Only problems I encounter was Talon bears.. but yeah enjoy the game, also almost all "Rich" birds went str, not sure why bcus it ain't that OP imo..

[lonleybird]

Not sure what you are trying to say. Not seeing anyone "crying" on this thread.

Birds are absolutely the WORSE class and are just as viable now as they were before the nerf. Only statements being made is now that dodge has been brought back a little, it is exposingthe birds who were counting on it to just rush in for kills. And yes, it is NOT it was in Sewers. Birds had more crit back then, but that made up for the fact they had practically zero dodge. And I hate to break it to you, but birds are still the highest damage output class in the game. Not sure where you got that all classes are stronger now.

Might want to tone it down a bit when you post as the discussion was pretty productive before this post.

Lol... Mages hit for about 550 on just fire with elite staff... let me guess your a mage. And I fixed it for ya

[Roberto077]

Lol... Mages hit for about 550 on just fire with elite staff... let me guess your a mage. And I fixed it for ya

He's a bear. Always a bear.

[CrimsonTider]

Lol... Mages hit for about 550 on just fire with elite staff... let me guess your a mage. And I fixed it for ya

Actually, you are wrong again. I didn't want to have to do this but the pictures below will speak for me.


He's a bear. Always a bear.

Except when I'm a...

41522

With a Blast Shot of...

41523

And other arrows which cause this much damage...

41524

And...

41525

So, as I said before, birds are far from the bottom as far as overall damage. As a matter of fact, they are at the top if anything.

[lonleybird]

Daym u must know what ur talking about with that 5k kills, and btw it might say that much damage but that's not what it hits for if u pvp'ed more u would know that

[Roberto077]

Actually, you are wrong again. I didn't want to have to do this but the pictures below will speak for me.



Except when I'm a...

41522

With a Blast Shot of...

41523

And other arrows which cause this much damage...

41524

And...

41525

So, as I said before, birds are far from the bottom as far as overall damage. As a matter of fact, they are at the top if anything.

Wasn't really against the "birds are fine" thing. I just know you as the ultimate bear tank guy.

[CrimsonTider]

Daym u must know what ur talking about with that 5k kills, and btw it might say that much damage but that's not what it hits for if u pvp'ed more u would know that

It's the same with all classes, so with your example, Firestorm from a mage doesn't hit 550 either. I don't have to have 10-20-30k pvp kills to know how the mechanics of the game work. I am not going to continue to argue with you. Bottom line, I was correct in my initial assessment.

@Robert - the first part of the post was intended for Lonely. I just included your quote as a bridge to the purpose of my post. And thank you for the complement, btw.

[Gaunab]

I also have a couple of kills on my bird and I second everything Crim said. If you think birds are weak or that they cant kill you are probably spoiled from playing with the ridiculously strong elite bow set the past year. Now it's time to learn how to play your class properly.

[Caiahar]

I never knew how to effectively use a bird before (not even when I read physiologics bird guide)
But at least I'm not that used to me dodging, considering a 74 with a 73 set doesnt dodge as much as a 76 bird with elite swift set :D

Now that ik whats waiting for me at endgame, I'm motivated to lvl up!
Grinding and lvl 75, here I come!

[lonleybird]

Wrong, even the best birds in game say it isn't anything like sewers for example thelonearher and dolloway

[Roberto077]

Wrong, even the best birds in game say it isn't anything like sewers for example thelonearher and dolloway

It isn't like the sewers, but it still isn't what you think. You would be surprised how much experience 5k kills brings into a player. Also, you probably haven't played without an Elite set on a bird. I could never instant kill with my basic Swift recurve but I always knew I was still over powered (4000 kills and around 1000 deaths this cap all in FFA CTF without rushing or spawning) plus I almost never dodged (gotta love level 7 evasion). Now people will see that birds don't need game dodge to kill in FFA, but manual dodge by keeping your range and using dat cover like a true op.

[Extreme]

Wrong, even the best birds in game say it isn't anything like sewers for example thelonearher and dolloway

Lel.. Cuard..

[Megamage]

Imo the nerf is a really good thing, because
-less dodge means less luck factor, and bears become more vulnerable and birds more squishy again, like in fang and earlier caps, where noone complained about it
-less crit (especially not 100+ crit for mages n birds) leads to way less oneshots and makes games more interesting (and gives sets like fiery a new advantage over savage, cause of fiery's more crit and not both 100+ buffed with mages like it was before nerf)
-Sets keep their base damage, so birds are still deadly and fast with swift elite
In conclusion, birds need to learn how to play again, more mages are using fiery set, and bears are still a bit op, especially when they use dex sets. The 90 dmg buff allows them to use every set and still dealing tons of dmg, this is the only thing that should be nerfed in future (60 dmg would be op enough imo).
But, in general, a very good job by Spacetime so far

[Roberto077]

dealing tons of dmg

This is all I picked out. If you play league of legends, you'd get the reference.

[Megamage]

This is all I picked out. If you play league of legends, you'd get the reference.

I dont really understand what you mean -.-

[tHelonestud]

You forgot the rhino living against a 5vs1
I have never seen this happen endgame, or are the rhino's the 5?

[Megamage]

I have never seen this happen endgame, or are the rhino's the 5?
Rhino is obviously the 5 lol

[Roberto077]

I dont really understand what you mean -.-

Exactly.

[Archermaster]

CAKE!

[Waug]

Actually, you are wrong again. I didn't want to have to do this but the pictures below will speak for me.



Except when I'm a...

41522

With a Blast Shot of...

41523

And other arrows which cause this much damage...

41524

And...

41525

So, as I said before, birds are far from the bottom as far as overall damage. As a matter of fact, they are at the top if anything.

good enough, thnx

now show us few skill damage of a pure into mage, with full set and elite branch (a 2h weapon, necessary cuz we comparing with another 2h weapon) and then we will add +45 damage with the values. After that we will compare these value.

sorry but one sided pictures does not prove anything ;(

[MrKrone]

Dang, Crimson! Theres a reason one of my toons in the ILoveCrimson guild!

[CrimsonTider]

Just for you Waug since you continue to think I have no clue.

41821

41822

Anything else? Pretty sure I just proved with the other side. Should I show maxed SMS and Stomp on bear to show how they are NOT OP?

[XghostzX]

I also have a couple of kills on my bird and I second everything Crim said. If you think birds are weak or that they cant kill you are probably spoiled from playing with the ridiculously strong elite bow set the past year. Now it's time to learn how to play your class properly.

^This

Now all I'd like to see is for LONGER FIGHTS. This means a better correlation between armor and health points, as well a decrease for damage for ALL classes. This will prevent any one class from being over-powered over another... I just dislike 2 second fights.

[Waug]

Just for you Waug since you continue to think I have no clue.

41821

41822

Anything else? Pretty sure I just proved with the other side. Should I show maxed SMS and Stomp on bear to show how they are NOT OP?

Ty for your input, now let me do a bit math for you.

Blast DMG : 625-652 => avg DMG = 638
Repulse DMG : 529-550 => avg DMG = 539

Drain DMG : 559-740 now +45 DMG buff => 604-785. => avg DMG = 694
Fire DMG : 529-674 now +45 DMG buff => 574-719 => avg DMG = 646

now you got the clue what I tried to say?

Even with going str set and build they are literally nuking even bears, THIS IS NO WHERE NEAR BALANCE.

Thus as I say always not only devs should nerf damage from all the classes also separately they should nerf mages DMG buffs also as they nerfed birds dodge cause birds Dodge buff also got op and definitely needed nerfing.

[CrimsonTider]

Ty for your input, now let me do a bit math for you.

Blast DMG : 625-652 => avg DMG = 638
Repulse DMG : 529-550 => avg DMG = 539

Drain DMG : 559-740 now +45 DMG buff => 604-785. => avg DMG = 694
Fire DMG : 529-674 now +45 DMG buff => 574-719 => avg DMG = 646

now you got the clue what I tried to say?

Even with going str set and build they are literally nuking even bears, THIS IS NO WHERE NEAR BALANCE.

Thus as I say always not only devs should nerf damage from all the classes also separately they should nerf mages DMG buffs also as they nerfed birds dodge cause birds Dodge buff also got op and definitely needed nerfing.

Actually, I don't "have a clue." First of all, you want to try and have input and prove a point, use some class and quit with the "me against the world attitude." Second, Just because the "mathematical average" is a bit higher, it is just that, a mathematical average. The chances of a birds Blast shot hitting in the 600's is 100%. (Yes, I know about armor, we are just speaking in pure damage.) However, a mage is not guaranteed to hit in the 600 range with Drain nor Firestorm. Mathematically, based on range, or using a Standard Deviation, birds have a greater chance at higher damage because of the accuracy in the range of their shots.

If we want to move towards realism and away from mathematics, very, VERY few mages use a staff in PvP. The majority use a wand and bracer, or use Savage. In the same manner, very few birds use a talon/shield set or a Savage set. Going back to mathematics, this makes birds the class which consistently maintains the highest damage.

Bottom line, you have your opinion, and I have mine. If you want to continue to speak numbers in a civil way and not in a condescending way as you and Cuard are doing, I'll be more than happy to provide more screenshots. Otherwise, I refuse to continue addressing someone who lacks the ability to discuss things in a civil manner and whose majority of posts are worded this way.

[Waug]

I don't know how you fiinding "me against world" types of things in my mathematical equations, anyway.

Everything based on mathematical calculations there's no exception even luck factors also calculated by some unknown equations and random numbers, anyway again

Did I say mages hv 700+ skill dmg, they can hit that sometime? nope I did not, why? cause that doesn't happen everytime but AVERAGE IS THE VALUE THAT MOST OF THE TIME IT HAPPENS, hence average skill dmg value is most adequate, there should not be any doubt.

It's funny if we move away from math and logic we don't ger closure to realty rather we get to the imaginary world. you actually did not get the point, that why I said we compare only 2h weapons.

Cause that is how comparison works, if birds not choosing to use 1h weapon and sheild and using 2h weapon, they are also taking the risk of being more fragile, in that sense they should do more dmg than with a sheild.

In reality with this much dmg, mages have no problem nuking with 1h weapon and even with more low daming build I.e with str build and gear.

and also I saw how you tried to ignor this saying 'BIT more damge' this BIT more damage is crossing 100+ dmg somewhere and you know how much impact it does in pvp.

[lonleybird]

I also have a couple of kills on my bird and I second everything Crim said. If you think birds are weak or that they cant kill you are probably spoiled from playing with the ridiculously strong elite bow set the past year. Now it's time to learn how to play your class properly.

Oh so were going by kills? I still win .

[Megamage]

A critical drain from buffed staff mage would cause ca. 598-960 dmg to a savage bear with 305 armor if ya do the maths. Am I right?

[Gaunab]

Oh so were going by kills?

Not only. Skill is also a factor. :)


A critical drain from buffed staff mage would cause ca. 598-960 dmg to a savage bear with 305 armor if ya do the maths. Am I right?

960 is way too high, but Ive seen some mages hit 500+ drain dmg on str chars. Most of the time it gets dodged anyways...

[Megamage]

960 is way too high, but Ive seen some mages hit 500+ drain dmg on str chars. Most of the time it gets dodged anyways...
Yeah I also thought 960 would be way too high... I dont really know how armor works. If it would be 785maxbuffeddmg - 305 armor = 480 raw dmg. x2 for crit =960. But seems armor works more complicated

[angeldawn]

Mages don't even come close to 900 damage lol

[Caiahar]

Mages don't even come close to 900 damage lol
Except on me.

[Sheugokin]

^ u wish bro!