Good Ole' Crim's idea of PvE Vs. PvP Gear

[XghostzX]

Heyo,

So Crimsontider came up with a wonderfully, well thought-out solution to PvP and PvE balance - making separate PvE gear and PvP gear.

I'm all ears for heads up for new ideas on balancing stats - that is great, and I'll continue trying to help out with that.

Although, i think a lot of PvPers would be happy if PvP gear was created, this way a new sense of balance could be made right from the get-go.

I've always thought this plan could be 100% full-proof. Starting from scratch with new gear makes it easy to balance.

[Revealing]

Hope this happens too

[Dreuefesie]

Maybe the items could have PVP stats and PVE stats so you only need one set if you don't have too much gold? But PVP and PVE gear is a very good idea!

[lonleybird]

Lol this game is turning into moar and moar like wow...

[Zapoke]

Lol this game is turning into moar and moar like wow...

"Oh, it has <insert MMO trait here>, just like WoW, must be a WoW clone!"

MMOs evolve as players express things that they like. MMOs (usually) don't copy other MMOs, but they put things in that players have come to expect in online games. Many of these things happen to be present in the currently most successful MMO out there, imagine that!

[XghostzX]

Lol this game is turning into moar and moar like wow...

It's not like its billion dollar profit speaks for itself...

[lonleybird]

"Oh, it has <insert MMO trait here>, just like WoW, must be a WoW clone!"

MMOs evolve as players express things that they like. MMOs (usually) don't copy other MMOs, but they put things in that players have come to expect in online games. Many of these things happen to be present in the currently most successful MMO out there, imagine that!
Lawl.. this game wasnt like this from the start why make it like this now? its a dum idea IMO

[angeldawn]

I'm not saying this is a good idea or bad idea. It is interesting.

I have to say, I like being able to PVP in all my different sets on my endgame. (Ex. Shadow Gear on 76).

I really would HATE to have to farm or buy new sets just to PVP. And if this does become a reality. Make the sets purchasable with real money cuz I don't wanna farm and only get PVE sets when I'm trying for a PVP set.

[lonleybird]

I'm not saying this is a good idea or bad idea. It is interesting.

I have to say, I like being able to PVP in all my different sets on my endgame. (Ex. Shadow Gear on 76).

I really would HATE to have to farm or buy new sets just to PVP. And if this does become a reality. Make the sets purchasable with real money cuz I don't wanna farm and only get PVE sets when I'm trying for a PVP set.
Who said we would buy with money? and thats what they were stating. Like buying with pvp points... oh wait thats WoW

[Twinklaser]

It's not like its billion dollar profit speaks for itself...

How bout we let em charge us $15 a month for the game?

[XghostzX]

I'm not saying this is a good idea or bad idea. It is interesting.

I have to say, I like being able to PVP in all my different sets on my endgame. (Ex. Shadow Gear on 76).

I really would HATE to have to farm or buy new sets just to PVP. And if this does become a reality. Make the sets purchasable with real money cuz I don't wanna farm and only get PVE sets when I'm trying for a PVP set.

I was actually thinking in terms of keeping the same stats - so we keep the stats for PvE, but the PvP gear stats can be changed on the current sets.

@lonelybird - Can you quit posting on this thread, please? You have something against PL yet you choose to be here, I don't understand.

[lonleybird]

idk if you didnt know but im cuard :)

[Mothwing]

Really cool idea, but how would one get the gear? Would it be a reward system where after a certain number of kills or wins, the person would get a piece?

Or would they be farmed?

[Caiahar]

How bout we let em charge us $15 a month for the game?

I am against this.
There are people who have guardian/parents who think that spending money on a mobile game is stupid (Myself included)and the younger (13/14/15) couldn't play.

[Twinklaser]

I am against this.
There are people who have guardian/parents who think that spending money on a mobile game is stupid (Myself included)and the younger (13/14/15) couldn't play.

I was being sarcastic since it appears Ghost was attempting to shape PL into WoW(which charges $15 a month). My bad as I forgot that tone is very hard to express through texts. I for one also have anti-videogamist parents.

[Randomguy]

lol

[angeldawn]

I was actually thinking in terms of keeping the same stats - so we keep the stats for PvE, but the PvP gear stats can be changed on the current sets.

@lonelybird - Can you quit posting on this thread, please? You have something against PL yet you choose to be here, I don't understand.

I'm fine with current gear having 2 sets of stats but that seems like a very lot of work for developers. The argument could be made that every piece of gear (not just sets) then needs 2 sets of stats. Unless you plan to 'buff' up stats on pinks but then everyone would have to have pinks to even come close to compete.

Developers need a quick fix for PL. The company doesn't want to invest much time and money into it. It adds more overhead and chips away at the profits. Additionally, this may need more in depth code written where a new update would have to be pushed to our providers and G said they won't do that.

I don't know what the solution is. But I think if we find and easy solution we have a better chance of it being implemented.

It seems that nerfing damage when entering pvp was an easy implementation maybe we could work with that somehow. Maybe dodge could have a max limit for the different classes. Could prevent Str gear making some classes in Str Op.

[XghostzX]

idk if you didnt know but im cuard :)

Lol go on?

@Angel - I think as a developer's job, putting in the work shouldn't be a big deal. Although I know STS doesn't want to invest the time and money into PL anymore. I guess we'll keep rebalancing the stats.

[Mothwing]

I wish all the nerfing would stop :/ at some point the weapons will all be "nerf" guns. Ha, get it?

[angeldawn]

Lol go on?

@Angel - I think as a developer's job, putting in the work shouldn't be a big deal. Although I know STS doesn't want to invest the time and money into PL anymore. I guess we'll keep rebalancing the stats.

I agree Hun. I take pride in my work and expect others to so the same. However, it was pretty much stated earlier that they were looking for quick fixes.

[CrimsonTider]

Actually, for those makng fun of the idea, STS has begun the process by loweing damage to sets when used in PvP. Now, if there was an adjustment to all areas in the same manner, we have Will's solution. Doesn't seem far fetched to me at all.

@Cuard - Let's try sticking to one forum account. If you want this account for trolling, then we can help fix that problem. Just let me know.

[DoctorWabbit]

Lel bad idea...

[angeldawn]

Actually, for those makng fun of the idea, STS has begun the process by loweing damage to sets when used in PvP. Now, if there was an adjustment to all areas in the same manner, we have Will's solution. Doesn't seem far fetched to me at all.

@Cuard - Let's try sticking to one forum account. If you want this account for trolling, then we can help fix that problem. Just let me know.

Was the damage nerf only applied to sets? I thought it was total stats? So if I don't use a 'set' will I not be nerfed?

It seem easier to adjusts stats across the board as you enter a pvp zone rather than adjusting all the available gear. I think it could easily be tweaked for each class as well.

Don't get me wrong I would like gear to be nerfed and I still pray for something to happen to the Beastly/Savage set.

[CrimsonTider]

Was the damage nerf only applied to sets? I thought it was total stats? So if I don't use a 'set' will I not be nerfed?

It seem easier to adjusts stats across the board as you enter a pvp zone rather than adjusting all the available gear. I think it could easily be tweaked for each class as well.

Don't get me wrong I would like gear to be nerfed and I still pray for something to happen to the Beastly/Savage set.

Isn't it technically the same thing? You have gear equipped but your damage/buffs/debuffs/etc. have been lowered. It is essentially the same concept without STS making the extra effort for two seperate sets. Hope that makes sense, I have had a rough few days.

Also, all this talk of Savage getting nerf will lead Crim to quitting. The sole purpose of all sets, not just strength, is for the class to make use of their class as a "pure." If bears were pure, the damage from Savage wouldn't be as noticable as we would hardly ever land a hit. The other issue is it's over-use. It is time we raise the attribute points needed to equip gear in the same manner Elite weapons were raised. Either thatcor bears need a buff added to increase hit%... Again, not at all attacking you Angel. I just don't think people really think these things through.
@DocWabbit - Thank you for such in depth, constructive feedback. I am sure it took you a few seconds to construct that response.

[Mothwing]

Isn't it technically the same thing? You have gear equipped but your damage/buffs/debuffs/etc. have been lowered. It is essentially the same concept without STS making the extra effort for two seperate sets. Hope that makes sense, I have had a rough few days.

Also, all this talk of Savage getting nerf will lead Crim to quitting. The sole purpose of all sets, not just strength, is for the class to make use of their class as a "pure." If bears were pure, the damage from Savage wouldn't be as noticable as we would hardly ever land a hit. The other issue is it's over-use. It is time we raise the attribute points needed to equip gear in the same manner Elite weapons were raised. Either thatcor bears need a buff added to increase hit%... Again, not at all attacking you Angel. I just don't think people really think these things through.
@DocWabbit - Thank you for such in depth, constructive feedback. I am sure it took you a few seconds to construct that response.

Every time I read one of your posts I feel like I gain a PL IQ point.

[angeldawn]

Isn't it technically the same thing? You have gear equipped but your damage/buffs/debuffs/etc. have been lowered. It is essentially the same concept without STS making the extra effort for two seperate sets. Hope that makes sense, I have had a rough few days.

@DocWabbit - Thank you for such in depth, constructive feedback. I am sure it took you a few seconds to construct that response.

I understand the end result in a pvp zone is the same. But nerfing gear vs stats or skills are two completely different things. By saying they nerfed sets one could think that the damage nerf was only to sets and by wearing non set items the damage nerf would not apply. Then ppl might start looking for other gear to wear to avoid the nerf. This is also why I think it is better to nerf toon stats rather than gear.

I'm sorry you have had a few rough days. Come here, let me give u hug :)

[lonleybird]

Actually, for those makng fun of the idea, STS has begun the process by loweing damage to sets when used in PvP. Now, if there was an adjustment to all areas in the same manner, we have Will's solution. Doesn't seem far fetched to me at all.

@Cuard - Let's try sticking to one forum account. If you want this account for trolling, then we can help fix that problem. Just let me know.
Its called I forgot my old info.

[angeldawn]

Also, all this talk of Savage getting nerf will lead Crim to quitting. The sole purpose of all sets, not just strength, is for the class to make use of their class as a "pure." If bears were pure, the damage from Savage wouldn't be as noticable as we would hardly ever land a hit. The other issue is it's over-use. It is time we raise the attribute points needed to equip gear in the same manner Elite weapons were raised. Either thatcor bears need a buff added to increase hit%... Again, not at all attacking you Angel. I just don't think people really think these things through.


I didn't take it as an attack :)

I some what agree with this and I see your point easily. My problem with savage set is other classes besides bears using it and becoming nearly invincible to pure toons. I have also said multiple times that I think if you wear gear not specific to your toon the stats should be lowered so you don't get the full benefit of the set.

I haven't been on much since the damage nerf but I am told Pallys can take on two opponents at once and continually dominate and survive. I see this as a problem.

So if nerfing savage is a no no to you. What would be your quick fix solution? I don't know if raising the required stats would actually prevent that many mages from wearing savage. I guess it would depend on how high of a stat.

[Chickenrunnn]

They nerfed weapons in PvP only.

Isn't that the same as making separate gear PvP/PvE? :o

End game PvP/CtF is way funnier now end game :]

[CrimsonTider]

I didn't take it as an attack :)

I some what agree with this and I see your point easily. My problem with savage set is other classes besides bears using it and becoming nearly invincible to pure toons. I have also said multiple times that I think if you wear gear not specific to your toon the stats should be lowered so you don't get the full benefit of the set.

I haven't been on much since the damage nerf but I am told Pallys can take on two opponents at once and continually dominate and survive. I see this as a problem.

So if nerfing savage is a no no to you. What would be your quick fix solution? I don't know if raising the required stats would actually prevent that many mages from wearing savage. I guess it would depend on how high of a stat.

As I have said in a few other threads:

1. Raise the base stats like they did it with Elite weapons. Pretty sure we won't see many pallies and/or warbirds with 73% hit running around.

2. Bears Rage should be changed to decrease the damage by half (from 90 to 45) and give us a boost in hit% like foxes and rhinos recieve. Now that I am almost to endgame with my rhino, being pure strength is actually viable because my hit% is actually raised to 100% through one of my buffs. I can absolutely live with that. As I was saying, a hybrid bear is deadly not because of the set, but because of the ability to dual spec. Dex only adds to the overall damage of the set and this is why the strength sets seem to be "op."

[Chickenrunnn]

2. Bears Rage should be changed to decrease the damage by half (from 90 to 45) and give us a boost in hit% like foxes and rhinos recieve. "

But then PvPing at lower level with bears will have to RIP :[

[WhoIsThis]

It's been done before in WoW.

There is a very serious drawback though:

It leaves a very high barrier of entry to new players because they can only get their PvP gear by well, PvPing. And it leaves PvE largely inaccessible to PvP types. There is also the issue of balancing both sets relative to each other.

[Aoeqt]

I hate to compare pl to a complete different game but in WoW / World of Warcraft, when you pvp.. You earn honor points for killing people and winning the match or finishing it, winning gives more points. After the game you may have about 200 honor points or 60 depending on your level, higer lvl pvp gives more. When you receive enough points you are able to trade those points in for a piece of armor. The difference between PvP and PvE armor in that game is that PvP impliments resilience, which provides increased armor against other opponents, so ie they do less damage to you. There are more differences but that is definitely the biggest one.

I think it would be a great idea because this would make PvP much more fun and have something to actually stride for, because all you get out of PvP atm is just kills, which gets boring.. Everyone wants to get recognized for their achievements and show them off.

[XghostzX]

It's been done before in WoW.

There is a very serious drawback though:

It leaves a very high barrier of entry to new players because they can only get their PvP gear by well, PvPing. And it leaves PvE largely inaccessible to PvP types. There is also the issue of balancing both sets relative to each other.

Hmm, I understand your point, but I think WoW can't always be compared to a small MMO like Pocket Legends. The variety in gear is relatively low - farming the gear is easy. I'm not quite sure how this would apply to PL, but I may be wrong.

[WhoIsThis]

The issues are simple:

1. Balancing the PvE and PvP gear relative to each other. Unless you want to make PvE gear not usable in PvP and vice-versa (in which case you have put huge barriers up for new players), the issue becomes, which set is better overall? That's the set that people will gravitate towards. I hate be so blunt, but so far, STS has not done a good job of balancing the 3 sets in PvP in any tier. Also, at any given twink range, it's common now to see 1 class/build that is OP. This is a sign of balancing issues. Endgame has very powerful strength sets right now. Adding 6 sets wouldn't just double the complexity, it would increase it geometrically. Once the most potent set is decided, if it turned out that the best set is in PvP, PvEers who do not PvP will be ticked.

2. How does a person obtain PvP gear? Through PvP by killing? That will encourage kill farming. Through CTF? Flag farming. By spending time in PvP? This will create open locked Forest Fights with 1 person in them.

3. Why is PvE gear better in PvE and PvP better in PvP? WoW added specific stats to address this and made PvP gear deficient in PvE deliberately. Unless there is a clear reason why, people will choose the better set.

4. Also, this would mean going back retrospectively and adding twinking PvP gear. This in turn would require re-balancing on the twinks part, which I do not think STS is willing to take the time to do.








I hate to compare pl to a complete different game but in WoW / World of Warcraft, when you pvp.. You earn honor points for killing people and winning the match or finishing it, winning gives more points. After the game you may have about 200 honor points or 60 depending on your level, higer lvl pvp gives more. When you receive enough points you are able to trade those points in for a piece of armor. The difference between PvP and PvE armor in that game is that PvP impliments resilience, which provides increased armor against other opponents, so ie they do less damage to you. There are more differences but that is definitely the biggest one.

I think it would be a great idea because this would make PvP much more fun and have something to actually stride for, because all you get out of PvP atm is just kills, which gets boring.. Everyone wants to get recognized for their achievements and show them off.

Yes that is true. This is how WoW does it. But in PL, how to distinguish PvE and PvP armor? People will go for the best set if the stats are similar as I indicated.






Basically, what I'm saying is, it could be done. But execution is key and this will involve a lot of effort. So far, STS has not been willing to show that effort. Poorly executed, this could worsen the existing PvP balance issues. Worse, it would not just affect PvP. The gear effects could spill over to PvE. Certain classes and builds could be rendered worthless.

[Aoeqt]

Yes that is true. This is how WoW does it. But in PL, how to distinguish PvE and PvP armor? People will go for the best set if the stats are similar as I indicated.

Basically, what I'm saying is, it could be done. But execution is key and this will involve a lot of effort. So far, STS has not been willing to show that effort. Poorly executed, this could worsen the existing PvP balance issues. Worse, it would not just affect PvP. The gear effects could spill over to PvE. Certain classes and builds could be rendered worthless.[/QUOTE]

What they could do is implement what they have done in WoW before, once again I hate to compare them two together but it was a good idea in my opinion. You can make a complete set of a class for less points to make it the greater class. So what I'm saying is their is a 'vicious' and 'gladiator' sets, vicious being the worse set and gladiator the better. They can make it required to get the lesser set and then get points for the gladiator set.

Say you wanted the gladiator set, you would have to spend say 800 honor points to get the viciou helm but to get the gladiator helm you would have to trade the vicious helm + 1200 points for it. They could make it more since its the best set and it should't be easy to get the sets. The sets should have a totally different look than the other sets to give them that distinguish.

[WhoIsThis]

What they could do is implement what they have done in WoW before, once again I hate to compare them two together but it was a good idea in my opinion. You can make a complete set of a class for less points to make it the greater class. So what I'm saying is their is a 'vicious' and 'gladiator' sets, vicious being the worse set and gladiator the better. They can make it required to get the lesser set and then get points for the gladiator set.

Say you wanted the gladiator set, you would have to spend say 800 honor points to get the viciou helm but to get the gladiator helm you would have to trade the vicious helm + 1200 points for it. They could make it more since its the best set and it should't be easy to get the sets. The sets should have a totally different look than the other sets to give them that distinguish.


That's not the issue. The real issue is that WoW of course has differences between raiding and PvP gear. Gemming is different, enchants are different, reforges are sometimes different. But most importantly of all, PvP gear has resilience and PvP Power. PL doesn't have any of that.

Let's say that crafted pinks becomes the equal to heroic raiding gear. What makes it an inferior choice to PvP gear? It'll come down to allocation of stats unless something like resilience and PvP Power are added.