Mages are NOT squishy

[TwinkTastical]

It isnt very hard to figure out.

When devs made this game, they didnt intend for you guys to rush to bosses with big *** mobs following you, simple, try clearing with a 5 man team, see if you're too squishy then.

[Gaabob]

They are too!! especially if you are in a 5 man team, but you are the only one doing good combos; AGRO FEST!!

Perhaps devs need to balance the agro scaling a little lol, so squishy ranges don't pull the mobs so much. Even a bear doing everything possible to hold agro can lose it if there is a good mage or bird.

[KingFu]

They aren't too squishy, but few games I play have tanks that do their jobs, so often times, I get all aggro with my keeper staff, and none of the tanks taunt or beckon :/ Mages rely heavily on my shield now, since the refresh time in between heal is enough time for mobs to kill you, even if you try spamming pots. The yellow aliens especially can kill a tank, so if a mage gets one, they are pretty much done. I think we almost need a guide for everyone to read that says how to play each class. I often times have a Mage that won't take care of their team because they are stingy on mana since they are still IMO the worst spec; a rift paladin. If you have a well working teams, a Mage can survive, but if your teams tactic is "ok, let's run in, and spam skills!!!" then, well, they will be..

[Inching]

They aren't too squishy, but few games I play have tanks that do their jobs, so often times, I get all aggro with my keeper staff, and none of the tanks taunt or beckon :/ Mages rely heavily on my shield now, since the refresh time in between heal is enough time for mobs to kill you, even if you try spamming pots. The yellow aliens especially can kill a tank, so if a mage gets one, they are pretty much done. I think we almost need a guide for everyone to read that says how to play each class. I often times have a Mage that won't take care of their team because they are stingy on mana since they are still IMO the worst spec; a rift paladin. If you have a well working teams, a Mage can survive, but if your teams tactic is "ok, let's run in, and spam skills!!!" then, well, they will be..

OMG dont start with the Keeper... once that thing is turned on... all mobs ignore tanks and come after me... lucky I have the Inching Proc and I usually get out alive... Mages Rock~!

[Arterra]

i love standing there, not even auto-attacking, and 2 shots from a yellow blaster-b**** send me packing. happened 3 times in the keepers room, and i was just standing there while everyone else was going crazy. wasnt even the keeper lol.

[Jsaieagle]

when the new pvp is issued later, i can tell you mages ARE squishy...

when i am playing pvp now, everyone (bow bears / tanks / birds) can kill me while i can only kill those without buff
i have to play pvp like a jer.......k

[KingFu]

i love standing there, not even auto-attacking, and 2 shots from a yellow blaster-b**** send me packing. happened 3 times in the keepers room, and i was just standing there while everyone else was going crazy. wasnt even the keeper lol.

You think the devs made it so the yellow, alien know tactics? Like to attack the healers first.

[Jsaieagle]

You think the devs made it so the yellow, alien know tactics? Like to attack the healers first.

yea idk why... :eek:

[Lapinsalaingr]

And i didn't yet explore that level in ao3... so it means even a lvl 50 paladin will have difficulties to survive more than a few seconds, right ? Better get the right team and a few bear bodyguards then...

[Royce]

Twink, do you have a level 50 Int mage? I've had capped mages since 25 was the cap. Yes mages are meant to be squishy and yes mages can't rush very well, but that's not the point. Just playing regular PvE with a decent team, mages get 1 shot way too often in AO3 (and not just by bosses). It's a real problem...

[j46g629h]

dev won't do any change on mage at the moment, at least not very soon

they don't think there's a issue with int mage

[Royce]

dev won't do any change on mage at the moment, at least not very soon

they don't think there's a issue with int mage

Did they tell you this personally, or are you just guessing? I think they do realize there is an issue. unfortunately, I think they may just tone down the difficulty of AO3 a bit, which is too bad since it is just about right (as a challenging campaign) for other classes, and I think changing mana shield to make it more effective, or changing the sorry state of Int stat increases is a better solution. Anyway, what makes you think they don't recognize the problem? None of the devs play mages afaik, except asommers who is like level 33, and mages are always the most overlooked and forgotten class, but the devs still realize they are there, and the game needs to be changed so that all classes can participate in AO3 without continuous 1-shot frustration.

[Ellyidol]

Did they tell you this personally, or are you just guessing? I think they do realize there is an issue. unfortunately, I think they may just tone down the difficulty of AO3 a bit, which is too bad since it is just about right (as a challenging campaign) for other classes, and I think changing mana shield to make it more effective, or changing the sorry state of Int stat increases is a better solution. Anyway, what makes you think they don't recognize the problem? None of the devs play mages afaik, except asommers who is like level 33, and mages are always the most overlooked and forgotten class, but the devs still realize they are there, and the game needs to be changed so that all classes can participate in AO3 without continuous 1-shot frustration.

I never knew devs didn't even completely play the game. :O

[Arterra]

I never knew devs didn't even completely play the game. :O

well they can change their level, stats, everything with a few buttons, but hey.

[j46g629h]

Because some people complained about mage and bird got one shoot while at ol and spend a lot of money on pot

then dev just said that we didn't play in right level and gear, that's why we got one shoot and need to buy pot for that

I was lv 48, I thought they might be right, although I didn't 100% agree with that

now just like most mage I'm lv50 and got full cosmos set (wand+shield)

still die in one or two shoot with full buff

I don't want dev to change difficulty of AO3, which might result people get bored quickly

but I do think there is something that dev should do about int mage right now

better than release some updates that just make people spend more plat on that

[TwinkTastical]

WRONG.. we ALL spend money on pots, regardless of class, sooo elves shouldnt get special treatment even though they all die, if a bear posted this, he,d get laughed at, but you waxed eared staff sucking robe unwearing spell castering toons.. get to cry.

[Royce]

Twink just stay out of the enchantress class discussion. It's quite clear you have no idea what's going on. Yes if a bear posted this they would get laughed at, but that's because life for a bear is much easier in AO3 (I have a level 50 Int Mage and level 50 tank). The situation is currently ridiculous. Yes Int mages should be squishy, and should have to be careful, and I would say they even should have to deal with getting 1-shot without anyway to stop it, but only occasionally. It had always been the case. It use to be Deadeyes, then Frogmar, etc. But now it's gone too far, it's not just certain bosses any more. In AO3 Int mages can get 1-shot while buffed against any boss, and frequently can get 1-shot fighting minibosses and even common mobs. Twink, if you actually had a mage, you'd understand, but you don't, so you don't ;) I gotta say it's pretty unzen to post a thread on a topic you know nothing about and try to dismiss a serious issue that you haven't even had a chance to experience. I'm quite disappointed in you...

[FluffNStuff]

In AO3 Int mages can get 1-shot while buffed against any boss, and frequently can get 1-shot fighting minibosses and even common mobs.
Want to look at two fully buffed classes, a ~pure~ tank and a ~pure~ mage: Both have 160 in main, rest in dex.
Tank:
380 Health
~180 Base Armor
50 Iron Armor buff
= 610 1Shot Survival Points
Mage:
200 Health
380 Mana
~100 Armor
32 Armor BOV
= 712 1 Shot Survival Points

So this means a 650 Point shot should insta kill a tank but not a buffed intelligence mage. This is clearly not what people are experiencing, so what is the cause for the discrepancy?
When ever a tank takes 1 shot of any damage, they slam pots. Do mages do the same?
Is Mana Shield protected by Armor?
Is the problem really two shots? Let look at the ~two~ shot survival points:
Tank:
380 Health
~180 Base Armor
50 Iron Armor buff
~180 Base Armor
50 Iron Armor buff
= 840 2Shot Survival Points
Mage:
200 Health
380 Mana
~100 Armor
32 Armor BOV
~100 Armor
32 Armor BOV
= 844 2 Shot Survival Points

Could keep this going, but the point is, Fully buffed Tanks can survive more shots then a fully buffed mage, but a fully buffed mage can survive 1 shot better, so they may be squishy, but getting ~1~ shot is NOT the issue.

[xera]

Want to look at two fully buffed classes, a ~pure~ tank and a ~pure~ mage: Both have 160 in main, rest in dex.
Tank:
380 Health
~180 Base Armor
50 Iron Armor buff
= 610 1Shot Survival Points
Mage:
200 Health
380 Mana
~100 Armor
32 Armor BOV
= 712 1 Shot Survival Points

So this means a 650 Point shot should insta kill a tank but not a buffed intelligence mage. This is clearly not what people are experiencing, so what is the cause for the discrepancy?
When ever a tank takes 1 shot of any damage, they slam pots. Do mages do the same?
Is Mana Shield protected by Armor?
Is the problem really two shots? Let look at the ~two~ shot survival points:
Tank:
380 Health
~180 Base Armor
50 Iron Armor buff
~180 Base Armor
50 Iron Armor buff
= 840 2Shot Survival Points
Mage:
200 Health
380 Mana
~100 Armor
32 Armor BOV
~100 Armor
32 Armor BOV
= 844 2 Shot Survival Points

Could keep this going, but the point is, Fully buffed Tanks can survive more shots then a fully buffed mage, but a fully buffed mage can survive 1 shot better, so they may be squishy, but getting ~1~ shot is NOT the issue.

http://thecriticalflow.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/argument-invalid.jpg

[FluffNStuff]

http://thecriticalflow.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/argument-invalid.jpg

I can haz no math skillz.

[Arterra]

meh even if you somehow have manashield up and running, not in cooldown, and not still casting when hit, as soon as the mana is gone, all the mages survival skills like the knockback of fireblast or group heals, a buff or two, even weakness (i use weakness often when walk-back-rushing to gurg...) are GONE. and when the shiled drops, you are still spamming mana pots instead of health pots...

[Raxie]

twink, you don't even have a mage.

[BlueStarBurst14]

Mages are not squishy! We can buff, de-buff, heal, revive and do some serious damage, while also making ourselfs the target, which makes it easier for the tanks ect to stay alive. Also, I'm a lvl 48 Mage, and I killed a lvl 50 warrior 25 times yesterday, and a archer 10 times today. We can be strong. And don't go saying "oh the tank was probably really bad" well he wasn't.

[cyprux]

Mages are not squishy! We can buff, de-buff, heal, revive and do some serious damage, while also making ourselfs the target, which makes it easier for the tanks ect to stay alive. Also, I'm a lvl 48 Mage, and I killed a lvl 50 warrior 25 times yesterday, and a archer 10 times today. We can be strong. And don't go saying "oh the tank was probably really bad" well he wasn't.

for the tanks to stay alive... warriors are called tankers to tank and take all the damages... mage are obviusly not tankers cuz they die to easily... warriors make themselves targets so mage could stay alive. and try fighting a warrior or a bowbear with a complete lvl 50 set and an archer with a full void set. tell me what happens

[TheLaw]

BlueStarBurst, your signature is copied straight off smoae? And try pvping with lonearcher, you will leave after awhile.

[BlueStarBurst14]

BlueStarBurst, your signature is copied straight off smoae? And try pvping with lonearcher, you will leave after awhile.

Ok yea I did I thought it was goof but I'll change it later. And I have. I killed him twice. Out of like 100 but still.

[j46g629h]

2 out of 100?

you still think you beat him?

[BlueStarBurst14]

2 out of 100?

you still think you beat him?

Ok, when I say like 100, I mean it felt like 100. I only have about 50 deaths, and no I'm not saying imm better than him, I'm just saying that mages are not worthless prices of sh*t.

[Necrobane]

I have two solutions to the mage problem. It would be better if both were used but it would work if only one was taken action upon.
1) Every class gets a hp rise as they lvl up so that it would look like this at 50 (Mages: 500 hp, Archers 550hp, Warriors 600 hp) To even this out and to stop it from ruining the difficulty of AO3 there would have to be a 2 second cool down on health potions. As you can see it would keep the difficulty of the levels, but stop classes using int gear to die so fast.

2) This one would require talent tree as if warriors were able to spec for increased armour and threat they would be over powered in PvP. In the talent trees there should be two paths for each class to follow up:

Mages:
PvP- The PvP tree would boost the PvP skills such as: Life Steal, Fire Blast, Freezes and the base h/s.
PvE- The PvE tree would boost the PvE skills such as: Heal, Buffs, Mana Shield, rev and the base m/s.
In the the PvE tree there would be a talent to decrease agro.

Archers:
PvP- The PvP tree would boost the PvP skills such as: roots repulse shot, hp regen spell, and the base h/s.
PvE- The PvE tree would boost the PvE skills such as: blast shot, shattering scream, meditation and the base m/s.
In the PvE spec there would be a talent to decrease agro.

Warriors:
PvP- The PvP tree would boost the PvP skills such as: the slash's, rage and the base m/s.
PvE- The PvE tree would boost the PvE skills such as: taunt, stomp, beckon, iron blood, evasion and the base h/s.
In the PvE spec the would be a talent to increase agro and armor.

This would keep everything balanced because warriors would have to loose potential big damage in order to get the the right stats for a tank. The "PvP" spec is for PvE and damage.

[Lesrider]

I like Royce's idea of mana shield giving better armor.
Also, I apologize if this is a dumb question, but are Buffs and Debuffs at all dependent on int? Like does an int Mage Vs pally have a stronger mana shield or a more powerful weaken? If not, I think that would really help balance it out because right now pallies are more useful in ao3 than int mages. I don't even bother with my Mage in ao3 (even though I usually find it the most fun to play). Now I play mostly bear. I just use mage now for clearing mobs in ao2 and lower levels. I think if buffs and Debuffs were more effective based on int (I assume they're not right now), then int mages might stand more of a chance.
Btw, I have mana shield at lvl 5 and it still hardly does anything much of the time.

[Lesrider]

Btw, I think it should be like that for all three classes, if it isn't yet. I know they changed it so damaging spellls/skills are based on the class's base stat. But I think supportive skills should be as well, to give more of an incentive for putting more points into the base stat than needed for equipment. Like a bear's Iron Blood should give more def if the bear has more str. And same with archer buffs/Debuffs and Mage buffs/Debuffs. I'm pretty sure that's not how it is now, And it seems like it really should be.

That way, for instance, a pally might be have higher armor overall, but an int Mage would weaken enemies more, heal better and buff the team better than the pally. Give mages some reason to be in a team. Right now people just need a pally to heal and rev.

[FluffNStuff]

Couple questions for Royce or someone who wants to find out and not guess.
First, is mana shield protected by armor or is it outside of armor.
Second, does chugging mana pots while mana shield is up restore the shield?

[FluffNStuff]

Third(sorry, mobile) is there a crit ignores mana shield or crit ignores armor on mana shield.

[BlueStarBurst14]

Couple questions for Royce or someone who wants to find out and not guess.
First, is mana shield protected by armor or is it outside of armor.
Second, does chugging mana pots while mana shield is up restore the shield?

One, It's outside armor. And Two, Yes but if you run out of mana completely, then it takes health. No mana, no health. Youre pretty much dead. *sigh*

[FluffNStuff]

One, It's outside armor. And Two, Yes but if you run out of mana completely, then it takes health. No mana, no health. Youre pretty much dead. *sigh*

Of course it 'looks' like it is outside armor, but is is 'protected' by armor. If you have 100 armor, and get hit with a 130 Damage shot, does it take 30 mana or 130 mana?

[Jsaieagle]

Of course it 'looks' like it is outside armor, but is is 'protected' by armor. If you have 100 armor, and get hit with a 130 Damage shot, does it take 30 mana or 130 mana?

Good question but i think only dev can give you the answer..... :/

[Pharcyde]

Build your mage right and you wont be squishy at all. I can solo bosses with my mage (obviously not ao3 bosses)

[giayuan]

Twinktastical, stop thinking mages are awesum -___-
Just cuz u got the best twinker lvl 19 (I suck it up and admit it) im sure u don’t have a 45-50 mage

When I was an int mage up till lvl 44, me and other mages would suck in pvp, and would die plenty of times against zmoxx and rloxx in ao2
im sorry, but mages would suck so much, that lesser djinns would be able to kill you without spamming of pots
When the quests came out and I used a free respec after the stat update thing to try int mage agen, I wuld die when a swarm of BALEFORT KNIGHT MOBS attacked me unbuffed. Yes, I was unbuffed, but guess what? Balefort is for lvl 20s!!!
I of course, repseced back to pally and was doing fine until ao3…than, well, that’s what the threads about =)

Bluestar, no offense, but the way you talk about lonearcher, I reminded me of sumtin called “COCKY”
Ive played him around 50 times on my three different 45s when ao3 wasn’t out and omfg! I beat him around 2 times too! But of course, I lost, becuz pvp is 10 points per round yes?

Pharcyde, can you put a list of bosses you can solo and KILL?
i agree with your build thing. I used to have a SH*T build on my lvl 45 mage and i would have trouble in fathom crypt when i had dead eyes and a bunch of mobs that followed me when i rushed =) now, im a pally, too scared to go back to int mage

[SnowGoon]

wish there was more info, so a int mage cant solo well, and sucks later on? cause in all int atm, what do people use now day then, a mix of what? int and? and why do they do that..