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View Full Version : My opinion on Spiral Bases



bellew90
09-26-2013, 04:59 PM
99% of bases have these walls, its a strategy game and there is no strategy in doing this, everyone has the same base.

DocDoBig
09-26-2013, 05:19 PM
Wall ... glitch?

bellew90
09-26-2013, 06:08 PM
Wall ... glitch?

yh the glitch that makes smashers run to outside boxes instead of running forward into the walls.

Applejaqs
09-26-2013, 06:11 PM
Full spitter or bomber armies. Good luck getting sts to "fix" it.

bellew90
09-26-2013, 07:44 PM
some of the lower level bases with spirals are attack-able but higher level ones you just cant attack them, im sure spacetime didn't intentionally programme the smashers to do this so therefore it is a glitch and as a pearl buyer myself ( not many but thats beside the point) i would hope for this to be fixed so we can all carry on enjoying the game how it was meant to be played.

bellew90
09-26-2013, 07:48 PM
Full spitter or bomber armies. Good luck getting sts to "fix" it.

well they should fix it or remove all the other troops because if it stays like this we wont need any other troops besides spitters and bombers.

Dizzy
09-26-2013, 07:49 PM
some of the lower level bases with spirals are attack-able but higher level ones you just cant attack them, im sure spacetime didn't intentionally programme the smashers to do this so therefore it is a glitch and as a pearl buyer myself ( not many but thats beside the point) i would hope for this to be fixed so we can all carry on enjoying the game how it was meant to be played.

Well it's been all over the forum for weeks now, they surely know about this "problem". This is STS. They won't fix anything unless THEY think it's a problem. And the only thing they've said about Smashers is that they work as intended.

bellew90
09-26-2013, 07:55 PM
Well it's been all over the forum for weeks now, they surely know about this "problem". This is STS. They won't fix anything unless THEY think it's a problem. And the only thing they've said about Smashers is that they work as intended.

surely if enough people complain about it they will do something about it, i cant be the only one who thinks that it ruins the game.

Applejaqs
09-26-2013, 08:13 PM
There are several complaint threads but still sts won't fix it. Welcome to spacetime games.

glengon
09-26-2013, 09:43 PM
Maybe theyre busy with AL?....

arielucie
09-27-2013, 02:13 AM
99% of bases have these walls, its a strategy game and there is no strategy in doing this, everyone has the same base its ruined the game and as far as i can see spacetime are not even doing anything about it.

Agree, we just use same attack strategy, thats not fun

arielucie
09-27-2013, 02:25 AM
Edit!! Its fine, with this smasher Ai!

fspinto
09-27-2013, 04:57 AM
1 month if nothing change from sts, i belive many players will chose another alternative games

So boring

True.

blatta
09-27-2013, 05:56 AM
hm, i farm spiral bases with 30k armies, all ground units + 1 or 2 spells. Some of the spirals had dh7/8/9 with l5/6 walls. Fun, good amount of resources (150 - 500k) and fast. Dosnt work all time on all bases but like 60% and army is cheap. Just dont use smashers on them lol.

bellew90
09-27-2013, 06:38 AM
Agree, we just use same attack strategy, thats not fun

im pretty sure u had ur walls like it ;) lol but i did notice u changed it again, and ur right people wont want to play no more, i was actually expecting everyone to argue and say that there is nothing wrong with them but it seems like people agree with me and even the people i know who have their walls like it say that its ridiculous and they only do it bcos they can. whoever the person was who actually first found the glitch must be proper sad spending time trying to find flaws in the game, this game used to be good and still will be as long as they fix the walls.

Dizzy
09-27-2013, 08:52 AM
whoever the person was who actually first found the glitch must be proper sad spending time trying to find flaws in the game

It was someone who worked hard to figure out the AI of the Smashers, so he could build a better base. Then he came to the forums and explained the AI to everyone. He wasn't looking for a "glitch", he was USING STRATEGY IN A STRATEGY GAME. Be upset with the devs for creating the poor AI in the first place and then blowing of players (many of whom are paying customers of STS), but don't bag on a player who is good at the game.

Getting seriously tired of people implying Garudon is some sort of cheater for figuring out Smasher AI. The entire point of a strategy game is to figure out the AI of the troops so you can use them better in battles and build bases to defend against them. The AI of the Smashers might be wonky, but it isn't a cheat (or even an exploit) to build a base that most effectively defends against them. I get SO cheesed off when people complain about effective strategy in a strategy game.

This. Is. A. STRAEGY. GAME. Complain all you want to the devs about poor gameplay and bad AI (god knows, I do), but don't whine about players who actually play the game the devs designed.

Samhayne
09-27-2013, 09:52 AM
99% of bases have these walls, its a strategy game and there is no strategy in doing this, everyone has the same base its ruined the game and as far as i can see spacetime are not even doing anything about it.

Just to be clear, 99% of bases do NOT have a spiral set up. We have access to the data and it's not that far eschewed.

As others have pointed out, it is a strategy game. Honestly, we've been watching this issue pretty closely and Spiral bases aren't that much more effective against honeycomb bases. Well, that is if you treat them differently. The point of the game is to, as Dizzy says above:


... point of a strategy game is to figure out the AI of the troops so you can use them better in battles and build bases to defend against them. The AI of the Smashers might be wonky, but it isn't a cheat (or even an exploit) to build a base that most effectively defends against them...

Right now if you want to build a spiral base, go for it. If you want to build your army to be effective against them, go for it. We have a big new client with lots of features coming out soon. After that, maybe the AI will get some adjustments. We just don't feel that it's something we have to drop everything else and fix it right now, kind of thing.

Adapt. Improvise. Overcome. Hu rah!

bellew90
09-27-2013, 10:05 AM
It was someone who worked hard to figure out the AI of the Smashers, so he could build a better base. Then he came to the forums and explained the AI to everyone. He wasn't looking for a "glitch", he was USING STRATEGY IN A STRATEGY GAME. Be upset with the devs for creating the poor AI in the first place and then blowing of players (many of whom are paying customers of STS), but don't bag on a player who is good at the game.

Getting seriously tired of people implying Garudon is some sort of cheater for figuring out Smasher AI. The entire point of a strategy game is to figure out the AI of the troops so you can use them better in battles and build bases to defend against them. The AI of the Smashers might be wonky, but it isn't a cheat (or even an exploit) to build a base that most effectively defends against them. I get SO cheesed off when people complain about effective strategy in a strategy game.

This. Is. A. STRAEGY. GAME. Complain all you want to the devs about poor gameplay and bad AI (god knows, I do), but don't whine about players who actually play the game the devs designed.

ok so thats like saying in call of duty if there is a glitch where u can go under the map ( yes it would be the games fault for having the glitch) but still its the "players" using it and taking advantage of the games mistake, i see why people are doing it simply because they can, but personally if i win a defense battle i like to think its because i have a good base and not because of a glitch or bad ai in the game, you even say it yourself that its a strategy game and where is the strategy in everyone having the exact same base? there is none thats my point!!

there are people who have hardly uprgaded anything but yet they have 1000's of trophies just for the simple fact that you can't attack them.
this game isnt just about defense its about attacking too and how are we supposed to attack when our troops are useless, smashers dont work anymore which also makes crushers pretty much useless , so now its pretty much all spitters and its just boring and there is no STRATEGY involved you just put all your spitters around the outside and hope for the best.

bellew90
09-27-2013, 10:10 AM
Just to be clear, 99% of bases do NOT have a spiral set up. We have access to the data and it's not that far eschewed.

As others have pointed out, it is a strategy game. Honestly, we've been watching this issue pretty closely and Spiral bases aren't that much more effective against honeycomb bases. Well, that is if you treat them differently. The point of the game is to, as Dizzy says above:



Right now if you want to build a spiral base, go for it. If you want to build your army to be effective against them, go for it. We have a big new client with lots of features coming out soon. After that, maybe the AI will get some adjustments. We just don't feel that it's something we have to drop everything else and fix it right now, kind of thing.

Adapt. Improvise. Overcome. Hu rah!

it really is that many, ok maybe not 99% but the majority of bases have it, where is the logic in if i lay down a smasher close to their outside wall that it just runs off somewhere which is further away to smash an empty box on the outside of the map?? please tell me the logic in that because it makes no sense to me.

Samhayne
09-27-2013, 10:18 AM
it really is that many, ok maybe not 99% but the majority of bases have it, where is the logic in if i lay down a smasher close to their outside wall that it just runs off somewhere which is further away to smash an empty box on the outside of the map?? please tell me the logic in that because it makes no sense to me.

As others have pointed out, don't rely on smashers. Drop a couple crushers to draw fire and then lay down a line of spitters. You might also have good results in using brawlers to draw fire away from your waves of spitters.

Just as people have thought outside of the box to come up with spiral bases for defense, so must attackers think outside of the box for their assault.

Applejaqs
09-27-2013, 10:28 AM
Spiral bases are easy to beat as is. However, try that strategy on a maxed base and you will fail sam. No offense but this game is going to lose a lot of players. New players with no idea how to play immediately going against spiral or non-enclosed bases, how do you think they would react? I don't think anyone has beaten garudon except with max bombers and heals.

glengon
09-27-2013, 11:53 AM
Our next step is to find a way to counter spitters and blasters, and then ground troops wont work anymore...

bellew90
09-27-2013, 12:34 PM
yep it seems that alot of people arent happy with this, and im sure sam knows that this is a problem but is just trying to lead us to think its not, anyway ive done mine as spiral now too seeing as how its not going to be fixed, i dont see why everyone else should have an advantage so if you cant beat them join them i guess.

bellew90
09-27-2013, 12:36 PM
As others have pointed out, don't rely on smashers. Drop a couple crushers to draw fire and then lay down a line of spitters. You might also have good results in using brawlers to draw fire away from your waves of spitters.

Just as people have thought outside of the box to come up with spiral bases for defense, so must attackers think outside of the box for their assault.

so what your saying is that smashers are now pointless, whats the point in me spending all that time upgrading them only to find out they dont work anymore?

Kryyss
09-27-2013, 12:54 PM
How does finding a limitation in Unit behaviour count as a glitch?

The smasher is designed to look for enclosures. Since a spiral is not closed it will instead look for a better match. What this reveals is that too many of BD tactics lean on the smashers ability to break down walls. They are too important. You say that this kills tactics, how? When you had smashers you used the same tactic over and over. Now you use a different tactic over and over.

BD needs more unit diversity to encourage more variety in tactics. Players who use spirals have different issues to deal with than players who don't. It isn't an 'easy' solution. What STS needs to do now is add a unit which has some other feature to make spirals and decoys less effective.

Multibird
09-27-2013, 12:55 PM
Devistators can also beat spirals easily

Kryyss
09-27-2013, 12:56 PM
I've seen plenty of bases which don't have a spiral design. If you can't get by without smashers then go looking for the non-spiral bases.

bellew90
09-27-2013, 01:03 PM
How does finding a limitation in Unit behaviour count as a glitch?

The smasher is designed to look for enclosures. Since a spiral is not closed it will instead look for a better match. What this reveals is that too many of BD tactics lean on the smashers ability to break down walls. They are too important. You say that this kills tactics, how? When you had smashers you used the same tactic over and over. Now you use a different tactic over and over.

BD needs more unit diversity to encourage more variety in tactics. Players who use spirals have different issues to deal with than players who don't. It isn't an 'easy' solution. What STS needs to do now is add a unit which has some other feature to make spirals and decoys less effective.

we all know why they do it you don't need to explain, they shouldn't do it that's the point.
and no it wasnt the same every time before, different bases i would attack differently but now its the same over and over and over.

Rare
09-27-2013, 01:08 PM
Let's be clear. Is not just spiral bases. Its any base that takes advantage of the wack smasher programming.

There are several designs that effectively leave the inside open to make smashers obsolete.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

drewcapu
09-27-2013, 01:13 PM
As others have pointed out, don't rely on smashers. Drop a couple crushers to draw fire and then lay down a line of spitters. You might also have good results in using brawlers to draw fire away from your waves of spitters.

Just as people have thought outside of the box to come up with spiral bases for defense, so must attackers think outside of the box for their assault.

So, after the PM i sent, are you saying there is nothing wrong with smashers?

Did you check the link (http://forum.supercell.net/showthread.php/24909-Q-A-Wall-Breaker-AI-and-how-it-works) i sent and how it explained how wall breaking troops need to aim for the closest buildings that are enclosed or partially enclosed and then break walls in the way?

I have tried to avoid posting anything that seems overly dramatic, but I do not see how any programmer can honestly insist that suicidal troops breaking walls which are not protecting anything is logical. (I haven't even gone into the pointlessness of brawlers and their lack of damage yet.)


Please verify that devs do know about and have witnessed all of the various ways ways smashers are currently being "tricked".

I need to know whether i need to bother getting any more pearls for this game.

Thanks!

(P.S. I am not trying to get STS to make BD more and more like CoC. There are some things about BD which are better than CoC. But there are also problems in BD which CoC has previously encountered and subsequently fixed. There is no reason why BD cannot be completely better than CoC because I know STS has the talent to make it such. But it frustrates me when various aspects of the game that are obviously detriment to the gameplay and/or balance go ignored or dismissed as working as intended.

Just wait til I upgrade my DH a couple times and give my two cents about air troops and air defenses!)

Kryyss
09-27-2013, 04:06 PM
The solution here is simple. Make them dumbfire rather than homing. Personally I would prefer to aim them myself compared to having them decide on targets themselves. Know what will happen then though? Players will scatter wall pieces around their bases to make them harder to connect with the intended target.

Players will always look for ways to outsmart the units abilities and AI.

bellew90
09-27-2013, 05:55 PM
Let's be clear. Is not just spiral bases. Its any base that takes advantage of the wack smasher programming.

There are several designs that effectively leave the inside open to make smashers obsolete.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

yh ur right, basically having gaps in walls so they aren't connected somehow makes ur base stronger haha, no logic whats so ever, i might go rip out parts of my fence to stop people coming in my garden.

bellew90
09-27-2013, 05:58 PM
The solution here is simple. Make them dumbfire rather than homing. Personally I would prefer to aim them myself compared to having them decide on targets themselves. Know what will happen then though? Players will scatter wall pieces around their bases to make them harder to connect with the intended target.

Players will always look for ways to outsmart the units abilities and AI.

surely the best solution is to just make them run straight or somehow fix it so they dont go for empty boxes, it doesn't do it on clash of clans so its not like it can't be fixed.

chickenjoy
09-27-2013, 07:02 PM
Another poor smasher ai thread, cool!


We just don't feel that it's something we have to drop everything else and fix it right now, kind of thing.

This is sad news :(

I'll probably be quitting too and tell my whole tribe about sts having no plans to fix it any time soon.

chickenjoy
09-27-2013, 07:15 PM
Did you check the link (http://forum.supercell.net/showthread.php/24909-Q-A-Wall-Breaker-AI-and-how-it-works) i sent and how it explained how wall breaking troops need to aim for the closest buildings that are enclosed or partially enclosed and then break walls in the way?

I opened the link and agree wall breaker is what smasher ai should be more like.

Garudon
09-27-2013, 07:52 PM
You guys are missing Sam's point. They're finishing a patch package for us, which will upgrade other things. Then they'll have time to focus more attention on this "issue". Priorities are set by their leads, not by forum posts. He's right that it's strong but not game breaking strong. Again, to those that complain about so many spirals, were you around when everything was 100% honeycomb? Stole that from Sam, but it's accurate. I simply got tired of EVERY base being the same, so I added a second style. Now people are adapting to it and, in turn, others adapt their open designs. It isn't as dire as you guys make it...

On the other hand, Apple is correct, no one but full dev/full bomber armies have beaten my base since I made the original spiral. I'm out of things to spend sheep on and have even moved two corrals out so people can raze those without having to 100% me. Trophies for sheep ;)

Is this really a bigger issue, or is the fact that people can get the equivalent of a few weeks' play time worth of trophies overnight just because they don't have a DH9?

glengon
09-27-2013, 09:22 PM
I haven't even gone into the pointlessness of brawlers and their lack of damage yet.
They arent pointless you just dont know how to use brawlers well.*


The solution here is simple. Make them dumbfire rather than homing.Personally I would prefer to aim them myself compared to having them decide on targets themselves. Know what will happen then though? Players will scatter wall pieces around their bases to make them harder to connect with the intended target.Players will always look for ways to outsmart the unit abilities and AI.
surely the best solution is to just make them run straight or somehow fix it so they dont go for empty boxes, it doesn't do it on clash of clans so its not like it can't be fixed.
Running straight will make them more stupid lol.
I think they should:
-go for enclosed walls
-go for partially enclosed wall
-ignore single walls no matter what
-ignore walls that are far away


Another poor smasher ai thread, cool!


We just don't feel that it's something we have to drop everything else and fix it right now, kind of thing.

This is sad news :(

I'll probably be quitting too and tell my whole tribe about sts having no plans to fix it any time soon.
Um chicken make sure you leave your DH unprotected and also leave ur mines, barns, hoards and corrals unprotected. Its best if you can arrange ur base such that all dragons are on one side and all resources are on the other side. Thanks it would definitely help newer players or "farmers" like me. Byeee ^_^.*

arielucie
09-27-2013, 11:27 PM
Um chicken make sure you leave your DH unprotected and also leave ur mines, barns, hoards and corrals unprotected. Its best if you can arrange ur base such that all dragons are on one side and all resources are on the other side. Thanks it would definitely help newer players or "farmers" like me. Byeee ^_^.*

Lol i want farming too, If you guys want to leave this game, do like glegon says, its realy help us.

Multibird
09-28-2013, 04:26 AM
Umm. if you don't know how to beat a spiral, why don't you make one? That's what I did when I had no idea how to take out spirals, now I can easily take them out, 100% most bases.

Bgmz
09-28-2013, 04:33 AM
We just don't feel that it's something we have to drop everything else and fix it right now, kind of thing.

Adapt. Improvise. Overcome. Hu rah!


Something to note how Smashers (Wall Breakers) in Clash of Clans work. Hopefully you guys look more into the problem.
Here is an answer from the dev team in CoC -> http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/102762/how-does-wall-breaker-aggro-work-and-how-do-i-build-lure-walls-effectively

How does the Wall Breaker choose its target?
Steps 1, 2, 3
1. It will look for the nearest building/turret that is trapped (fully or partially) by walls
2. It will choose the shortest path towards that building and blow up walls that are in its way
3. After the wall is blown up, it will choose the next building that is still trapped by walls, run straight towards it, and blow up walls that are in its way

So Wall Breakers donít target walls anymore?!?!!1!!!!?
No. Instead of targeting walls, they aim for the main prize, a building that is trapped by walls. The wall just happens to be in its way, and has to be blown up. That building is the reason why you need that wall taken down, right?

Do Wall Breakers attack buildings?
No. They aim for the building and blow up the wall that is in their path.

Do Wall Breakers favorite junctions?
No. The Wall Breaker will run in a straight line towards the nearest building. When it encounters a wall, it blows it up.

Can I fool Wall Breakers by using spikes or short decoy wall sections?
No. They won't be fooled by those.

The two main takeaways from this that are interesting:
1. You can no longer lure Wall Breakers with "vestigial" walls.
2. Wall Breakers target the nearest enclosed building. Some have found that you can confuse them near the edge of your main village by enclosing something like a builder hut or tesla. °Viva the AI abuse!

arielucie
09-28-2013, 09:24 AM
Pvp in 25000 trophy really hard!! And only get small resources,

Lol cannot upgrade anything :(

Rare
09-28-2013, 01:29 PM
They arent pointless you just dont know how to use brawlers well.*

Disagree. Brawlers are pointless.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

bellew90
09-28-2013, 01:57 PM
You guys are missing Sam's point. They're finishing a patch package for us, which will upgrade other things. Then they'll have time to focus more attention on this "issue". Priorities are set by their leads, not by forum posts. He's right that it's strong but not game breaking strong. Again, to those that complain about so many spirals, were you around when everything was 100% honeycomb? Stole that from Sam, but it's accurate. I simply got tired of EVERY base being the same, so I added a second style. Now people are adapting to it and, in turn, others adapt their open designs. It isn't as dire as you guys make it...

On the other hand, Apple is correct, no one but full dev/full bomber armies have beaten my base since I made the original spiral. I'm out of things to spend sheep on and have even moved two corrals out so people can raze those without having to 100% me. Trophies for sheep ;)

Is this really a bigger issue, or is the fact that people can get the equivalent of a few weeks' play time worth of trophies overnight just because they don't have a DH9?

yh so instead of fixing big issues like this what they're doing is really important stuff like giving you more pearls on the offers lol, just goes to show they care more about the money than game play.
and the difference between honeycomb and spiral is that honeycomb doesn't make smashers run to walls that they shouldn't.
it's good that they're upgrading the game and everything but this is something that NEEDS fixing, a few people on this forum have said they will stop playing doesnt that show you that it should be a priority to fix it??
im not saying we should be able to 100% every base and that the game should be easy not at all , but the game should at least work.

bellew90
09-28-2013, 02:04 PM
Disagree. Brawlers are pointless.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

i wouldn't say they are pointless they just aren't as good as other troops but they do what they say they do, so pointless not really but does anyone use them no because other troops are better.

Dizzy
09-28-2013, 02:19 PM
Lots of people use Brawlers. I use them for tanks when I farm. They're cheap and fast to build and make great meat shields for other troops. They're not meant for anything more, that's why they're cheap and fast to build.

And holy heck, give STS time. They're working on a big patch right now, so NO they're not going to drop that to fix one issue. I'm as critical of STS as anyone, but Sam said they're actually looking at this, just not focused on it at this exact moment because they have a patch they're working on. Re-f'in-lax.

Rare
09-28-2013, 02:27 PM
Lots of people use Brawlers. I use them for tanks when I farm. They're cheap and fast to build and make great meat shields for other troops. They're not meant for anything more, that's why they're cheap and fast to build.

And holy heck, give STS time. They're working on a big patch right now, so NO they're not going to drop that to fix one issue. I'm as critical of STS as anyone, but Sam said they're actually looking at this, just not focused on it at this exact moment because they have a patch they're working on. Re-f'in-lax.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?p=901619

Also, you'd do well to take your own advice :D. You must excuse people if they are less than confident.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

drewcapu
09-28-2013, 05:36 PM
They arent pointless you just dont know how to use brawlers well.*

Ok, i'll bite.

I don't want to go on too much of a tangent, but...

In CoC, i would have about a equal number of brawler and spitter equivalents.

But in BD, brawlers and spitters do equal damage. Why would I use a brawler to do the same damage as a spitter when the spitter can do it from a much safer distance?

Spitters also have more range than their CoC equivalents. Ordinarily, I would want to use brawlers as a poor-man's crusher. But there's no point in doing that since crushers only use 3 slots, in comparison to 5 in CoC.

In other words, with the attack style I am used to from CoC, I will use crushers over brawlers because they take less space than I am used to, and I will use spitters over brawlers because brawlers have no damage advantage over spitters that they have in CoC.

If brawler was even 1 dmg higher than spitter, I might consider training them.


Back to smashers...

I am not asking for STS to drop everything to fix smashers. We all know AL is the favorite child.

All I am looking for is acknowledgement that there is even the slightlest possibility that their AI is less than ideal.

There are a lot of little things that are minor annoyances in BD which I haven't bothered posting about because they don't necessarily affect gameplay (resource tallying more than you get after battle comes to mind).

There are also some I don't bother creating a whole thread about which do affect gameplay and/or even crash the game (mis-hitting the button after viewing a video comes to mind).

But smasher AI is a huge part of gameplay.

If a smasher is mindlessly running to break a single wall tile in the middle of nowhere instead of breaking a wall that is in front of a building, even your typical 12-year old is gonna say this game is dumb and move on.

Imagine if you had an army of bombers that managed to destroy all the dragons on the map, but instead of then moving on to hit the resources and other buildings, it decided to destroy all the walls and so you end up with zero resources. That is what this smasher behavior is like!

bellew90
09-28-2013, 06:14 PM
Ok, i'll bite.

I don't want to go on too much of a tangent, but...

In CoC, i would have about a equal number of brawler and spitter equivalents.

But in BD, brawlers and spitters do equal damage. Why would I use a brawler to do the same damage as a spitter when the spitter can do it from a much safer distance?

Spitters also have more range than their CoC equivalents. Ordinarily, I would want to use brawlers as a poor-man's crusher. But there's no point in doing that since crushers only use 3 slots, in comparison to 5 in CoC.

In other words, with the attack style I am used to from CoC, I will use crushers over brawlers because they take less space than I am used to, and I will use spitters over brawlers because brawlers have no damage advantage over spitters that they have in CoC.

If brawler was even 1 dmg higher than spitter, I might consider training them.


Back to smashers...

I am not asking for STS to drop everything to fix smashers. We all know AL is the favorite child.

All I am looking for is acknowledgement that there is even the slightlest possibility that their AI is less than ideal.

There are a lot of little things that are minor annoyances in BD which I haven't bothered posting about because they don't necessarily affect gameplay (resource tallying more than you get after battle comes to mind).

There are also some I don't bother creating a whole thread about which do affect gameplay and/or even crash the game (mis-hitting the button after viewing a video comes to mind).

But smasher AI is a huge part of gameplay.

If a smasher is mindlessly running to break a single wall tile in the middle of nowhere instead of breaking a wall that is in front of a building, even your typical 12-year old is gonna say this game is dumb and move on.

Imagine if you had an army of bombers that managed to destroy all the dragons on the map, but instead of then moving on to hit the resources and other buildings, it decided to destroy all the walls and so you end up with zero resources. That is what this smasher behavior is like!

spmebody who knows what they're talking about ^

glengon
09-28-2013, 08:55 PM
They arent pointless you just dont know how to use brawlers well.*

Ok, i'll bite.

I don't want to go on too much of a tangent, but...

In CoC, i would have about a equal number of brawler and spitter equivalents.

But in BD, brawlers and spitters do equal damage. Why would I use a brawler to do the same damage as a spitter when the spitter can do it from a much safer distance?

Spitters also have more range than their CoC equivalents. Ordinarily, I would want to use brawlers as a poor-man's crusher. But there's no point in doing that since crushers only use 3 slots, in comparison to 5 in CoC.

In other words, with the attack style I am used to from CoC, I will use crushers over brawlers because they take less space than I am used to, and I will use spitters over brawlers because brawlers have no damage advantage over spitters that they have in CoC.

If brawler was even 1 dmg higher than spitter, I might consider training them.
Youre missing the point. One shouldnt only look at its bad side, learn to look at their good side and uses too.
-Brawlers are good for fast farming(with spitters or gobblers). Normally i use 2 dojos for brawlers and 2 for gobblers. But now pvp is harder and i use brawlers and spitters instead.
-Theyre fast to produce.
-Good for distracting acid dragons. Placing a few in different spots, but pretty close together, can draw fire from them while you attack the other side.
-Cheapest troop to test for defense tribe troops.
-Good for testing for traps.
-Can absorb some damage. I have a habit of placing a few brawlers in front a wall or dragons, before placing my crushers and other troops.
-Basically brawlers are a very good distracting troop. There are so many times my last few spitters are not in the range of other defenses but an acid, and theyre attacking the resources. I would put my few brawlers to distract the acid while they get the resources.
-Brawlers have more health than spitters. Against noob or easy bases, i can simply put a few brawlers and a few spitters and the dragon is down, instead of using a crusher of smasher.

Therefore, you shouldnt only look at their damage.

Garudon
09-28-2013, 11:52 PM
yh so instead of fixing big issues like this what they're doing is really important stuff like giving you more pearls on the offers lol, just goes to show they care more about the money than game play.
and the difference between honeycomb and spiral is that honeycomb doesn't make smashers run to walls that they shouldn't.
it's good that they're upgrading the game and everything but this is something that NEEDS fixing, a few people on this forum have said they will stop playing doesnt that show you that it should be a priority to fix it??
im not saying we should be able to 100% every base and that the game should be easy not at all , but the game should at least work.

OK Bellew, here goes: If they change smasher ai I'll quit. OMG now what shall they do, it's a catch 22!!! Oh wait, they look for issues on the forums, but don't just live to cater to your needs.

arielucie
09-29-2013, 12:21 AM
OK Bellew, here goes: If they change smasher ai I'll quit. OMG now what shall they do, it's a catch 22!!! Oh wait, they look for issues on the forums, but don't just live to cater to your needs.

Agree!!! Its hard to defeat but ist ok,

arielucie
09-29-2013, 12:33 AM
I counting my smasher use for spiral and honeycomb base, use lv 3 smasher, with spiral, 20-30 to win
Honeycomb: 20-25 to win, not big diference,

So do crusher and spiter still same ammount.

So our problem is, really hard to see lot of smasher only blow first layer, or trap box

The result is same!

glengon
09-29-2013, 02:52 AM
I counting my smasher use for spiral and honeycomb base, use lv 3 smasher, with spiral, 20-30 to win
Honeycomb: 20-25 to win, not big diference,

So do crusher and spiter still same ammount.

So our problem is, really hard to see lot of smasher only blow first layer, or trap box

The result is same!
Lol arie you dont need that many for honeycomb bases, especially those with "X" junctions.

Rare
09-29-2013, 06:50 AM
OK Bellew, here goes: If they change smasher ai I'll quit. OMG now what shall they do, it's a catch 22!!! Oh wait, they look for issues on the forums, but don't just live to cater to your needs.

It's really not a catch 22. This is about fixing a problem. Not about making you or anyone else happy.

I really can't wrap my head around why people would NOT want it changed.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Itoopeo
09-29-2013, 07:03 AM
Ahh did you know that clash of clans is coming for android?
STG should fix that smasher and bomber issues or they really lose a LOT players.
Just for a little simple reason: BD has op troops and retarded smashers.
Supercell did this way better.

glengon
09-29-2013, 09:02 AM
Ahh did you know that clash of clans is coming for android?
STG should fix that smasher and bomber issues or they really lose a LOT players.
Just for a little simple reason: BD has op troops and retarded smashers.
Supercell did this way better.
Yeaaaaa i heard about it. Hope to try it soon ><

chickenjoy
09-29-2013, 09:12 AM
Um chicken make sure you leave your DH unprotected and also leave ur mines, barns, hoards and corrals unprotected. Its best if you can arrange ur base such that all dragons are on one side and all resources are on the other side. Thanks it would definitely help newer players or "farmers" like me. Byeee ^_^.*

Definitely will do that!

chickenjoy
09-29-2013, 09:22 AM
Ahh did you know that clash of clans is coming for android?
STG should fix that smasher and bomber issues or they really lose a LOT players.
Supercell did this way better.


oh wow do you have a link to this?

only reason i play bd cause theres no clash of clans on android.

when coc gets on android stock for bd is going down if they don't improve.

Itoopeo
09-29-2013, 09:29 AM
They are testing it atm and it will be out soon.

I heard this in Supercell HQ

And in finnish news channel two days later

Garudon
09-29-2013, 11:06 AM
It's really not a catch 22. This is about fixing a problem. Not about making you or anyone else happy.

I really can't wrap my head around why people would NOT want it changed.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

The point was that he's saying people threatening to quit should make it a top priority and it should be changed immediately. Since that's a stupid demand, I replied with another stupid demand. I'm not arguing the smasher ai, but this pointlessness of a "if you don't do this I'll quit" forum post.

Multibird
09-29-2013, 11:22 AM
Why don't you ppl just learn how to play? This is a strategistic game, if you can't handle the heat don't bother playing.

Garudon
09-29-2013, 12:00 PM
I just snagged another 350k/350k spiral base. 100%. But smashers are broken and spirals are OP. I must have cheated, eh?

Garudon
09-29-2013, 12:02 PM
Oh and I used a whole 16 smashers, but a few of those were actually wasted too...

Multibird
09-29-2013, 11:28 PM
Pro

arielucie
09-30-2013, 12:44 AM
Oh and I used a whole 16 smashers, but a few of those were actually wasted too...

4 Thumbs up, i use minimum 30!!!

Itoopeo
09-30-2013, 03:38 AM
I use 5 if i use them

bellew90
09-30-2013, 03:13 PM
Oh and I used a whole 16 smashers, but a few of those were actually wasted too...

Ur missing the point, I don't want it fixed to make me happy, I want it fixed because I like this game and it needs fixing, I've beaten loads of spiral bases but my point is that smashers should work!!
There is absolutely no logic in them going for empty boxes, I read someone say before that instead of smashers going for walls that they should go for the buildings and smash the walls that are in the way, this way seems logical instead of smashers running around the whole base and smashing into a wall that is nowhere near where u put it, u know, I know and everyone else knows that that isn't how they should work.

bellew90
09-30-2013, 03:15 PM
Oh also guarudon u use like 50 lvl 5 bombers lol ur gonna beat anyone with any layout, how are people with lower lvl troops supposed to beat spirals when smashers don't do their job.

Itoopeo
09-30-2013, 03:21 PM
Dont worry guys :-) Supercell saves the day and releases Clash Of Clans for android really soon. As you might know, they really do work for that game, thats why its so great.

Garudon
09-30-2013, 04:49 PM
I used 50 bombers for fun, like I used 12 devastators last night on a lvl3 walled base. Why? Because I have 3 million sheep and nothing to do with them. I'm bored. Less bored than when it was all one base design, but still bored. If you like the game, think creatively about how you can use what's given to you to kill things. In other words, adapt to the world instead of expecting the world to adapt to you.

Cahaun
09-30-2013, 05:38 PM
ok so thats like saying in call of duty if there is a glitch where u can go under the map ( yes it would be the games fault for having the glitch) but still its the "players" using it and taking advantage of the games mistake, i see why people are doing it simply because they can, but personally if i win a defense battle i like to think its because i have a good base and not because of a glitch or bad ai in the game, you even say it yourself that its a strategy game and where is the strategy in everyone having the exact same base? there is none thats my point!!

there are people who have hardly uprgaded anything but yet they have 1000's of trophies just for the simple fact that you can't attack them.
this game isnt just about defense its about attacking too and how are we supposed to attack when our troops are useless, smashers dont work anymore which also makes crushers pretty much useless , so now its pretty much all spitters and its just boring and there is no STRATEGY involved you just put all your spitters around the outside and hope for the best.

Good point, but I think you missed something: The Smashers aren't glitches nor are they just "Bad AI". All that happened was that the AI of the Smashers was figured out and a base design was found to be very effective against them. A counter was found, and it is being used.

Read Sam's post please


Just to be clear, 99% of bases do NOT have a spiral set up. We have access to the data and it's not that far eschewed.

As others have pointed out, it is a strategy game. Honestly, we've been watching this issue pretty closely and Spiral bases aren't that much more effective against honeycomb bases. Well, that is if you treat them differently. The point of the game is to, as Dizzy says above:



Right now if you want to build a spiral base, go for it. If you want to build your army to be effective against them, go for it. We have a big new client with lots of features coming out soon. After that, maybe the AI will get some adjustments. We just don't feel that it's something we have to drop everything else and fix it right now, kind of thing.

Adapt. Improvise. Overcome. Hu rah!

octavos
09-30-2013, 05:43 PM
Good point, but I think you missed something: The Smashers aren't glitches nor are they just "Bad AI". All that happened was that the AI of the Smashers was figured out and a base design was found to be very effective against them. A counter was found, and it is being used.

Read Sam's post please

Yups bro, improvise and over come. I think things aren't bugged but learn from the pros "**Mr.Garudon** who has tons of trophies..cudos to u bro", how I keep modifying my base and use replays to my advantage. If fixes come in for smashers, there will always be another tactic to over come the fixes. Go with the flow :ghost:

arielucie
10-01-2013, 04:57 AM
Dont worry guys :-) Supercell saves the day and releases Clash Of Clans for android really soon. As you might know, they really do work for that game, thats why its so great.

In my oppinion, bd has more something good than coc, i play coc on my ipad, but i delete it since i play bd, becouse bd has a lot of fun, and maybe has a good features in the future

Hope you enjoy with coc, bye finman, and leave your base open ok. Thank you

arielucie
10-01-2013, 05:02 AM
u.
I used 50 bombers for fun, like I used 12 devastators last night on a lvl3 walled base. Why? Because I have 3 million sheep and nothing to do with them. I'm bored. Less bored than when it was all one base design, but still bored. If you like the game, think creatively about how you can use what's given to you to kill things. In other words, adapt to the world instead of expecting the world to adapt to you.

Attack me with devas pls, i want to see how they work,

and your quotes is great,

"Adapt the world"

EternityZero
10-04-2013, 12:00 PM
nothing wrong with ai. spiral base has also a disadvantage, once u dig though the walls its a carnage.
if u take advantage of the ai you can create nice fortresses, for example my base(ign eternity) can only exist with this ai.
its much more interesting then a box grid base, but then again has also disadvantages. pls dont change the ai.

MysticalSoul
10-05-2013, 02:50 PM
i agree while the smasher may have their downfalls once you learn how to play with time it becomes interesting it also forces you to play with your army build to find something that works for you and allows us to get away from having a stack of boxes as a base. Spiral bases are really easy to beat but i'm not telling how........

Applejaqs
10-05-2013, 07:44 PM
This does not need to be fixed because it's "bugged". This needs to be fixed because the game is now incredibly boring now that you only need one strategy for every base you see now.

Garudon
10-05-2013, 09:02 PM
Funny, I count two: 1) box bases 2) spiral bases. Before spirals, you had box bases. You'd prefer everyone look the same as boxes instead?

glengon
10-06-2013, 02:05 AM
Grid type bases at least have more variety than spiral bases which are all basically the same shape.

Gurugyee
10-06-2013, 02:23 AM
Oh and I used a whole 16 smashers, but a few of those were actually wasted too...

that base must have no building or wall to push back the spawning point

chickenjoy
10-06-2013, 05:54 AM
Grid type bases at least have more variety than spiral bases which are all basically the same shape.

True.

Garudon next please make a layout to make bombers useless.

MysticalSoul
10-06-2013, 03:38 PM
you want people to stop using spiral... heres how... beat them.... once someone starts loosing 100k 200k 300k+ they will start looking for something else lol i did.. however if you arnt willing to learn how to beat them then well i guess you can keep on ranting on the forms about how smashers are "bugged" and should work to make your life easier and not require any type of strategy.

Battlegrinder
10-06-2013, 08:26 PM
you want people to stop using spiral... heres how... beat them.... once someone starts loosing 100k 200k 300k+ they will start looking for something else lol i did.. however if you arnt willing to learn how to beat them then well i guess you can keep on ranting on the forms about how smashers are "bugged" and should work to make your life easier and not require any type of strategy.

Then could you explain how to beat a spiral? Because I've been trying to figure out a counter for several days, and all I've come up with is "bomber spam". I'd like to use a strategy that gives my opponent at least a sporting chance, and bomber spam isn't that (not mention it will only push someone to invent the Anti-aircraft spiral). Plus, I'd need to upgrade my bombers in order to do that, and I can't get any money because all the bases I find are spirals.


STS, how about you patch smashers to head straight for the other side of the map after they've destroyed all the enclosed spaces on a given map?

ealax
10-06-2013, 09:27 PM
As others have pointed out, don't rely on smashers. Drop a couple crushers to draw fire and then lay down a line of spitters. You might also have good results in using brawlers to draw fire away from your waves of spitters.

Just as people have thought outside of the box to come up with spiral bases for defense, so must attackers think outside of the box for their assault.

If you ever change the AI of smashers, please: DO NOT CHANGE it too much. There are few advantages of this AI, but Im not going to tell some defenders :D

Garudon
10-06-2013, 10:49 PM
Look at my previous thread, I explained the logic a few weeks ago. Read it and try it in spar, you'll understand it in no time.

Incognito_Koala
10-07-2013, 10:39 AM
Although I nearly cried and nearly broke my budget phone in a childish rage, the first time I encountered this situation, I actually find this all quite a challenge... It reminded me of playing Goldeneye 64 on 007 difficulty setting, where the game seemed so unfair or when I played many old C64 or Amiga games and knew the game was cheating. It might be a problem in the game but it isn't impossible to beat a spiral base. Bomber spamming isn't the only option that I have found out to beat the spiral. Adapt & overcome, with practice= Success. //Also, respect to Garudon for the time and effort put into his game time. True master!

I still prefer my box-grid setup over the spiral formation. When I reach my end game, perhaps I might combine the two... If I have enough walls....

rockmayhem
10-07-2013, 07:19 PM
Ya know when people first started using spiral bases it was frustrating so I just would pass them up. Now we have more and more people building unenclosed areas so I started looking for a strategy to get in on them. It took some time and cost me some trophies but I figured it out and without the use of bombers, they cost to much. That's part of a game, improvise, revise, and try again. If your playing a game of chess and your opponent keeps castling right before you get check does that make it a glitch? No, it part of the game and until you find a new strategy their gonna keep doing it. If you go into every game using the same strategy you can expect others to adapt, hence unenlosed bases. It simple, adapt and survive. To paraphrase Mike Tyson; "Everyone has the perfect plan till they get punched in the face." So you've been punched in the face, now what are you gonna do?

On another note if you want this game to be more like CoC then go play CoC. If you want something that offers a little variety from other games then play this.

MysticalSoul
10-07-2013, 08:49 PM
I agree on the whole chess concept unfortunately many people would rather just play checkers

Rare
10-08-2013, 04:28 PM
you want people to stop using spiral... heres how... beat them.... once someone starts loosing 100k 200k 300k+ they will start looking for something else lol i did.. however if you arnt willing to learn how to beat them then well i guess you can keep on ranting on the forms about how smashers are "bugged" and should work to make your life easier and not require any type of strategy.

I beat them regularly. And I take their resources. I still think smashers are dumb and need to be fixed. What next?

EDIT: I don't use bombers unless they are donated to me.

Rare
10-08-2013, 04:30 PM
Ya know when people first started using spiral bases it was frustrating so I just would pass them up. Now we have more and more people building unenclosed areas so I started looking for a strategy to get in on them. It took some time and cost me some trophies but I figured it out and without the use of bombers, they cost to much. That's part of a game, improvise, revise, and try again. If your playing a game of chess and your opponent keeps castling right before you get check does that make it a glitch? No, it part of the game and until you find a new strategy their gonna keep doing it. If you go into every game using the same strategy you can expect others to adapt, hence unenlosed bases. It simple, adapt and survive. To paraphrase Mike Tyson; "Everyone has the perfect plan till they get punched in the face." So you've been punched in the face, now what are you gonna do?

On another note if you want this game to be more like CoC then go play CoC. If you want something that offers a little variety from other games then play this.

No, but if your queen couldn't move into a check position simply because there is a rook that she just HAD TO TAKE OUT, then I would say its "bugged".

And by the way, comparing the game to chess, not a very good comparison. Chess is a game of action and reaction. And predicting your opponents next move. There is no prediction in this game. We already know how the units will move once they are placed.

Dizzy
10-08-2013, 05:30 PM
And predicting your opponents next move. There is no prediction in this game. We already know how the units will move once they are placed.

I can predict how people will attack my base and I'm right about 95% of the time. Because of this I can set traps that most people fall for (and I'm not just talking about blast sheep). My base is actually easy to beat, but very few people have figured out the tricks I employ.

I'm not a genius or anything, but it does seem that people underestimate the physiological factor in this game, and I take advantage of that.

This game isn't nearly as complex as chess, but there are advantages of trying to figure how someone will attack a base, or how someone might set traps when you attack. There is an advantage to thinking outside the box. Or spiral, as the case may be.

EternityZero
10-08-2013, 06:15 PM
I can predict how people will attack my base and I'm right about 95% of the time. Because of this I can set traps that most people fall for (and I'm not just talking about blast sheep). My base is actually easy to beat, but very few people have figured out the tricks I employ.

I'm not a genius or anything, but it does seem that people underestimate the physiological factor in this game, and I take advantage of that.

This game isn't nearly as complex as chess, but there are advantages of trying to figure how someone will attack a base, or how someone might set traps when you attack. There is an advantage to thinking outside the box. Or spiral, as the case may be.

i would rather just lose the fight then go through the hassle of replacing that mines

Dizzy
10-08-2013, 07:48 PM
I never said my traps consisted only of traps like pit dragons and sheep bombs. And I'd rather win fights than lose resources or trophies. It takes less than a minute to reset my traps, and it's fun to watch the replays as people send their troops right into my traps every. single. time. I've been attacked many times with big armies without losing resources, so I'm happy with my base and the small effort it takes to reset "mines".

But the "mines" are only part of my strategy. As I said in my post, a lot of my strategy depends on figuring out how people attack, and setting up my base to take advantage of it. People almost NEVER attack my base where it's vulnerable (and rarely, when a player does, they 100% me). They get blinded by what they think are rich targets, or misunderstand my base and send the wrong types of troops to beat it. I can't tell you how fun it is to watch the replays. And as I said, I'm not saying I'm some genius base designer, only that it seems most people aren't thinking about how people attack, only how troops attack, and that's a whole different way of thinking. It's the difference between "Smashers won't work on a spiral base so I'll build a spiral" vs. "players like to go for the Dragon Hall for easy trophies so I'll take advantage of that in my base design. [just one of many factors I use in my design]"

But whatever dude, play the game however you want, I'm just presenting a strategy many players don't think about because they're too busy gripping about spiral bases.

glengon
10-08-2013, 11:08 PM
Why so serious??

Dienoobs
10-08-2013, 11:51 PM
damn that was a long thread. spent like 30 minutes reading it, just got bored n skipped to the end. good show boys. good show.

chickenjoy
10-09-2013, 12:19 AM
Smasher AI is the most obvious but another weakness with other troop unit AI is favoring shortest distance versus going around walls with openings.

So the more I observe it's not really the spiral that's strong. It's the troop ai to walk through the funnel.

They would rather try to punch through a wall rather than just walk around it. even though there's a clear opening a few distance away.

This is most obvious with gobblers and crushers.

Instead of gobblers going through the funnel they choose to eat through a wall towards the nearest resource building instead of running through the spiral.


STS can improve troop ai by going around an open wall rather than forcing itself to break through it.

chickenjoy
10-09-2013, 12:23 AM
Dont worry guys :-) Supercell saves the day and releases Clash Of Clans for android really soon. As you might know, they really do work for that game, thats why its so great.


I just installed Clash of Clans on my Android today :)
Hooray!

Everyone should install it so they can compare with BD

Dizzy
10-09-2013, 02:40 AM
Why so serious??

Dude, this game is all I have. :(

No, but seriously (ha!) I'm constantly perplexed by the number of people playing a strategy game who want it to perform like a point-and-click or who aren't actually interested in the strategy part. It confuses and frightens me.

Also, I'm long-winded and abrasive.

Also, you should get your trophies up. :D

glengon
10-09-2013, 03:27 AM
Lol i dont play bd much anymore, ever since CoC came out a few days ago...that strategy is cool, but some people dont get it so theres no point typing so much ;)


Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515m using Tapatalk 4

Rare
10-09-2013, 07:31 AM
Dude, this game is all I have. :(

No, but seriously (ha!) I'm constantly perplexed by the number of people playing a strategy game who want it to perform like a point-and-click or who aren't actually interested in the strategy part. It confuses and frightens me.

Also, I'm long-winded and abrasive.

Also, you should get your trophies up. :D

I don't understand. Who is not interested in strategy? I haven't seen anyone, personally, that gave me that impression.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Battlegrinder
10-09-2013, 11:22 AM
As far as I'm concerned, spirals are an exploit, and a way-too prevalent one at that. I'm getting sick and tired of watching my armies get cut down as they try to breach the walls, and instead get wiped out by ice/acid dragon combos. Sending expendable units to draw fire doesn't work since I'm taking fire from AoE attacks, and bomber get cut down as soon as the get into range. Not mention that all the spirals have upgraded base defenses because they can save up resources (since no one can ever actually kill them).

STS, please fix this game already.

Garudon
10-09-2013, 08:14 PM
As far as I'm concerned, spirals are an exploit, and a way-too prevalent one at that. I'm getting sick and tired of watching my armies get cut down as they try to breach the walls, and instead get wiped out by ice/acid dragon combos. Sending expendable units to draw fire doesn't work since I'm taking fire from AoE attacks, and bomber get cut down as soon as the get into range. Not mention that all the spirals have upgraded base defenses because they can save up resources (since no one can ever actually kill them).

STS, please fix this game already.

Way to jump in a thread, ignore every bit of information already posted, then accuse others of cheating while making statements that have already been proven false. Go back through the thread and count how many people state they beat spirals regularly, then come back and explain how we're all doing it if "no one can ever actually kill them".

Rare
10-10-2013, 08:53 AM
Way to jump in a thread, ignore every bit of information already posted, then accuse others of cheating while making statements that have already been proven false. Go back through the thread and count how many people state they beat spirals regularly, then come back and explain how we're all doing it if "no one can ever actually kill them".

I totally agree... its not cheating at all. Its a weakness of the smasher. Just like other units that have a glaring weekness though, I think it should be "fixed".

Winning against a spiral base is pretty easy, but at least for me it comes at great expense (meaning at least one heal spell, maybe more depending on the level of the base).

I recently decided to move up a little in trophies and try out the infamous 1k trophy range. At my range right now (~700) 19 out of 20 bases utilize the smasher neautralizer in some form or fashion. I would say though that 15 out of those 19 are spiral bases in particular.

Sure, 90% of all bases may not use the spiral. But I'd be willing to bet that 90% of all bases that CAN (i.e. DH lvl 6 or higher and who understand the AI limitation) do.

Battlegrinder
10-10-2013, 10:01 AM
Way to jump in a thread, ignore every bit of information already posted, then accuse others of cheating while making statements that have already been proven false. Go back through the thread and count how many people state they beat spirals regularly, then come back and explain how we're all doing it if "no one can ever actually kill them".

I didn't ignore the other people who say they've beaten them. Perhaps I was too general in my initial post. I can beat a spiral, but its very difficult, heavily dependent on the spiral having a sloppy layout, and expensive. At my level (level 6 dragon hall), spirals are virtually impossible to take down, since I don't have devastators, maxed out fireballs, healers, or any of the other units that make assaulting a spiral easier.

Spiral bases are by definition an exploit. From Wikipedia:
"An exploit (from the verb to exploit, in the meaning of using something to one’s own advantage) is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behaviour to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised)."

Taking advantage of the smasher's poor AI to create a base that they won't break through the walls of certainly meets that qualification. While I'm impressed by your analysis of BD AI, the fact that said analysis lead to everyone and his dog having a base that's virtually assault proof is an issue. I'm not saying your cheating, since spirals are legal and STS has said they won't be fixing them right now, but its certainly poor sportsmanship.

chickenjoy
10-10-2013, 07:16 PM
How to beat spiral:

1. Have a DH7 and up
2. Crushers + heals
3. Bombers + heals
4. Spam spitters around base and hope for 50% (most boring)
5. Use a spiral or spiral variant


Forget about army build time and cost efficiency. Forget about farming.

Battlegrinder
10-10-2013, 07:40 PM
How to beat spiral:

1. Have a DH7 and up
2. Crushers + heals
3. Bombers + heals
4. Spam spitters around base and hope for 50% (most boring)
5. Use a spiral or spiral variant

Forget about army build cost and efficiency. Forget about farming.

1. So anyone below that point is screwed?
2. Ice Dragon+acid dragon+high level walls.
3.Ice dragon+copper dragon
4. Workable, but most spirals having nothing of value in the outer layers anyway, and frequently have fire/lightning dragon set up to cover the perimeter.
5. Not much use in offense.

Applejaqs
10-10-2013, 09:33 PM
There is no point in continuing to rant on this thread. Sts have stated that they have little to no interest in reworking the AI. Clash of clans has recently been released on android on top of ios. Their AI trumps that of sts and makes spiral bases pointless. Go play that instead of rambling on for days that will in turn never bring a fix.

csb
10-10-2013, 09:43 PM
1. So anyone below that point is screwed?

It's really hard for DH6 troops to defeat a spiral with black walls.

At DH7 (220 troop housing), it is much easier. You get 4 max level heals and L4 crushers. Plus, follow up with hordes of L5 spitters, and throw in four L4 bombers at the end for cleanup. I can 100% a DH6/DH7 spiral with black walls and have a minute of time left. The only problem is that it costs a lot, and the whole point of PvP is to make a profit for upgrades.

Also, after a spiral, i have to wait 30-40 minutes before the next battle. After a honeycomb, i only have to wait 10 to 20 minutes before the next battle because I only use half my troops.

But, there is no guarantee. Sometimes the troops don't path the way I want in an open-wall fort. Also, I hate using spells, and often I launch spells accidentally out in an open area when I am just trying to move the map. (ouch, that sucks). One time my finger was down in a corner, and i did 4 heal spells on nobody. uggggg...

Garudon
10-10-2013, 09:51 PM
Making use of an exploit in any game is a cheat. Given that STS has not chosen to suspend or ban anyone for using a new tactic (they actually condone adaptive strategies), it is not an exploit. If it were unintended and gave an unfair advantage, it would be an exploit. I will give you a few examples of exploits.

World of Warcraft (PVP)
Neutral town called Gadgetzan. Players could jump onto the buildings where guards do not path. They could then attack players down on the ground, attempting to kill them. If that player retaliates, the guards attack him but not the player on the roof. Due to the fact that a) that player may not have intended a reaction such as having a pet defend them or b) they are a melee only class, so they can't retaliate or take advantage of this same situation, it is an exploit.

Everquest (PVE)
Exploration area called Mistmoore. You could climb/lev up a wall to an area creatures couldn't path. You could then attack the creatures and gain exp with no risk to yourself. Due to the fact that you're defeating the basic risk vs reward rule by eliminating ANY risk to yourself, it was an exploit.

Everquest (PVE)
In any zone prior to patch day (who else remembers the lovely weekly server maintenance?!?) you could leave your corpse, fully equipped. After the servers rebooted, you could drag your corpse away from it's initial spot. There was a glitch in the software that caused your corpse to re-spawn in the original spot after looting the one you moved, so you could double all of the gear you had on the corpse (including gold and trade-able weapons/items). You were taking advantage of a glitch in the software to acquire goods with no risk, thus an exploit.

Tribes: Ascend (PVP)
In any zone you could break the code that is used to calculate your gravity value, allowing you to float/fly. You could also break the jet pack calculation to allow infinite flight through the jet pack or break the code for ammo usage, which allowed you to have infinite grenades. Because you could cause situations that remove the risk vs reward and take advantage of an UNINTENDED flaw in the software, it was an exploit.

Bottom line is this. It may be infuriating, but it is not imbalanced. You can make your base in the same way to reduce the risk of being attacked. It isn't as expensive as people make it out to be, with an adaptive strategy. I consistently beat dh7-9 bases with 20-30% of my army because my strategy and troop placement is sound against the spiral defense. I rarely use a fire or heal spell, but I will when the on the fly calculations tell me that it's cost effective to do so. I'm not saying that something shouldn't be changed, I'm just saying it isn't as dire as people make it out to be. If it were, then the devs (like in each of the cases stated above) would have taken the servers down within minutes to hours of discovering the use of this and locked the servers down until they were satisfied it was fixed.

glengon
10-10-2013, 11:26 PM
How to beat spiral:

1. Have a DH7 and up
2. Crushers + heals
3. Bombers + heals
4. Spam spitters around base and hope for 50% (most boring)
5. Use a spiral or spiral variant


Forget about army build time and cost efficiency. Forget about farming.
Imo spitter army+a few crushers+5-10bombers is the cheapest.
First check for tribetroops, then kill them, then take out outer layer of one side(that has copper drag) with spitters and a few crushers. Then, put a few more crushers to distract the inner layer dragons, and put lots of spitter, and break the first layer walls with brute force. Then send it the rest of spitters and crushers and blasters or gobblers. Take out the copper, and send it bombers from the other side.
Its a lot easier if you take out the inner copper+acid/icedragsinside with fire spell though, if its a dh8 or below its a free win once the outer copper is gone.
If the spiral base only has a few smasher boxes, just destroy them first, and you can break the first layer with smashers. I use about 12brawlers, 24 gobblers, 90-100spitters, 8crushers and smasher, 4blasters and 8bombers. I think its far cheaper and faster than full bomber army..

Rare
10-11-2013, 05:32 AM
There is no point in continuing to rant on this thread. Sts have stated that they have little to no interest in reworking the AI. Clash of clans has recently been released on android on top of ios. Their AI trumps that of sts and makes spiral bases pointless. Go play that instead of rambling on for days that will in turn never bring a fix.

Well what else should we do on this forum about the game???

You know, you don't have to click the thread title to come in here.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

MysticalSoul
10-11-2013, 10:37 AM
so ughh if we are not ranting about smashers anymore than whats next?