In your opinion, what would it take to get PL back to it's glory days?

[WhoIsThis]

At some point, I'm going (as I hinted) to make a series of threads (after careful consideration I decided that 1 thread would be too short), but anyways, what would it take in your opinion?

I will define the peaks of PL as:

- Best community and skill overall: Pre-Mynas Generation Alien Oasis era
- Most number of "reasonably good" players: The Sewers era
- Fastest runs? Open to debate. I would distinguish between pre-elixir and post-elixir days.
- Level of popularity currently enjoyed by AL (which I suspect will begin to decline as more attention shifts to newer games)

Once again, though, what would it take (in your opinion)?:

Would it mean?
- Content updates
- Better balance
- Perhaps greater media coverage
- A lot of new content?
- A subscription?

Or something else? Perhaps new modes of play? Something more radical, like a new engine?

[CrimsonTider]

It would take a ressurgence of the "oldies." What I mean by that is, the community that you and I joined is almost completely dead. No matter what changes STS makes to the game, this newer generation, and their "attitudes", will hinder any rise back to glory. The community is no where near as mature as it once was and there is a lot more selfishness in-game as well as on the forums. The "educated" are almost extinct and those with at least some knowledge of the game and it's mechanics don't want to bother with helping because of the rise of the trolls.

Sorry if I make that sound bad, but it is what it is. I started a group a few months back called "The Movement" in hopes to try and revive some of that old feeling. There is a good group who try and make an attempt to maintain a positive playing environment, but the numbers of immature, uneducated players is almost at an overwhelming level.

[programmed]

It would take a ressurgence of the "oldies." What I mean by that is, the community that you and I joined is almost completely dead. No matter what changes STS makes to the game, this newer generation, and their "attitudes", will hinder any rise back to glory. The community is no where near as mature as it once was and there is a lot more selfishness in-game as well as on the forums. The "educated" are almost extinct and those with at least some knowledge of the game and it's mechanics don't want to bother with helping because of the rise of the trolls.

Sorry if I make that sound bad, but it is what it is. I started a group a few months back called "The Movement" in hopes to try and revive some of that old feeling. There is a good group who try and make an attempt to maintain a positive playing environment, but the numbers of immature, uneducated players is almost at an overwhelming level.

I joined that group when you made it and completely forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me XD


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[Spyce]

Something for us to do while we wait for a new cap.

New mode possibly?

[MightyMicah]

Take a look at the Gw2 community. That's probably the best community I've ever been a part of. Why? There's no quick or easy answer but I'll give two that are the most important in my opinion.

1. Solid Gameplay

You cannot expect to have a good, active community without good, solid gameplay. I remember having a discussion long ago with a few guys (Ghost and Crim I believe? And a few others...) about how part of the reason people are going crazy is because there is freaking nothing to do! I would also say, now, that it isn't only that but also that the stuff we DO have to do is a complete joke. I hate to go all hatin' on STS but Pocket Legends is a piece of crap.

The PvE is a just a dps/elixir fest where you blow through npc's as fast as possible. No class is required to do anything. No strategy is needed either. PvP has gotten better with the recent nerf, but still isn't good. Not to mention it's the same old, same old, if you know what I mean. Once you've explored the levels across the board, it gets old. No one does capture the flag anymore (I tried to fix it once and failed) for whatever reason, and people doing normal pvp are just teaming or farming noobs. Or raging, but that's a rant for another time.

Now, I don't say all of this to point out how bad PL is. I'm here on the forums so obviously I play the game and still like it, but it needs improvement and that's precisely my point. So, in answer to your question, they need to do a massive revamp. They need to base stats on pvp alone. I'll say it again. They need to base stats on pvp alone. Only then should they set up PvE. PvE can work without balanced classes, but pvp cannot. Balance the classes in pvp, and PvE will be just fine. And that brings us to PvE...Stop tempting us to empty our wallets and give us strategic content that doesn't require 3x damage and armor to be successful in. (What happened to bosses like cockroach and sewer king?) I'm not expert but most people have more fun in a game that is too easy, yet makes you feel like a baws for completing it, than a game that you struggle through all the while spending money out of frustration.

Also, we are gonna want new stuff, devs. I'm not saying we should get an update every two weeks like Gw2 but something other than half priced platinum and double xp weekend would be nice. Whatever happened to the creativity like the Wild West duels in Star Legends awhile back? Come up with something crazy! Make some kind of mystery across Alterra that forces us to speak to npc's and actually get into some kind of story. People love that. If you don't have time to write any stuff like that, I'm sure there are plenty of people (ahem myself) who could help out! We want the game to succeed as much as you do. Or at least close to as much...

2. A reason be kind and help others.

Has anyone ever played farmville? Remember how every single nice thing you do in that game benefits you more than the other player? This is quite honestly a very mischievous way to create a nice community. I can remember logging into FarmVille and seeing that like 12 friends had sent me a gift. Sure, they only sent it to me because it gave them some bonus, but heck! It made me love my friends! When there are selfish reasons to be kind to others, it does wonders for mmo's and honestly promotes (quite ironically) genuine kindness.

What if there was a reputation system in game? And even one that gave vanity every certain check mark? Now, I'm not advocating this, but I'm just driving my point home. When there is a reason to be kind, it's a lot easier to do so.

One of the ways I've seen this successfully carried out in games before (and even in PL to some extent) is when an amazing drop is placed among lower level bosses. Next thing you know, high levels and low levels are playing together. I don't know about you guys, but whenever I start an mmo, I always love it when high levels are around. That's usually where I begin to learn the ropes and makes some friends. Certainly there can be issues with this (as we have seen) but it remains, nonetheless, a way to bring the community together.

I'm sure many will disagree with all that I have said thus far, but understand I'm not trying to argue. I'm just stating my opinion as I was asked to give.
-MM

[XghostzX]

All I miss is the old community I was once a part of back in the sewers days. I miss all my good buddies from Unity, I miss our friendly guild wars with Revelation because PvP was balanced, I miss getting new things every now and then from STS. The company did not see PL's potential and they have, perhaps, thrown away an idea that could have made them so much more if they invested time, money, and further consideration/feedback with the community.

There is no one specific thing that needs to be changed in PL at this point if I were to get that same satisfaction I did back in 2011 - there needs to be an entire revamp. As Miracle said, this goes from PvP balance, to different modes, to PvE structure (not using elixs), to a storyline; I'd rather pay a subscription fee and be guaranteed that the content would expand and develop, only because this game has that potential. It's truly the perfect balance between easy-to-pick-up gaming with almost every basic idea of an MMORPG. Although, I think STS only intended this game to be easy-to-pick-up - if I gave the devs one goal or mission, it would be to continue working on that incredible balance between easy/fun to pick up and with a huge amount of content to offer. This is what makes STS so brilliant, let alone, PL. This is the only game in the app store where I don't have to contribute hours of time to get to a point in a game where I want to be, but to spend hours of time to just have fun and do the things that I'd like to able to do.

STS has showed some sympathy for its PL players in the past month, but it's starting to fade away. It's like they just teased us to keep us here and to stop the ranting from happening again, only for us to know that we would be let down again. Edit: I take back some of what I said in this sentence - I feel partially like this; not entirely. Otherwise I sound greedy.

I'm still here on the forums because I still have a passion for the game. I'm clinging to hope for this game - although it may be completely non-existent and irrelevant, the only reason I'm still driven to play this game at this point is because I know STS never lets down its community, regardless of a business point (once again, it's probably be an irrelevant wish). I always thought that this was their intention as game developers.

[Everyone'sFavMage]

I started up right after sewer cap was released. And in my opinion the game has gone down hill from there. Nuri was ok, it was a blast. Demonic looked amazing. Pvp was pretty balanced. Mace could have been overpowered but still it was ok. Fang was getting worse. Mages overpowered bears overpowered, doing too much damage, not taking enough skill in Pvp. Also pve wise I feel like layer quality diminished with over reliance on elixirs. Then came humania. This cap as far as Pvp goes wasn't terrible, it was he, nothing like sewers but not near as bad as current cap. The current cap is absolutely terrible. This cap, made the game die IMO.

In summary to take pocket legends back to the glory days in my opinion, the sts developers would have to look at threads like this and see what the old community says. Listen to the people who have been here since the beginning. For me, as I am not a pve person And I mainly concentrate on Pvp, sewer cap was where it was at. They need to take a look at that cap, and items sets ect and see what made that so balanced. It was truly pocket legends greatest moments for Pvp. The damage nerf was a great first step in coming back, but it needs tweaking. And the invulnerable orb they introduced is absolutely pathetic. It actually makes it easier for people to spawn kill. They also need to make new forms of pvp to keep us entertained. We have gotten what, 2 new maps in the last nearly 3 years of pocket legends for Pvp? We need more. New maps, new ways to play Pvp, that's something that needs attention. Most of their revenue I'm sure comes from Pvp players. Or at least used too, Leveling as fast as possible to the cap and leveling twinks on elixirs. Rings, vanity, it's endless!
The main point is that if sts wants to regain this game. They MUST listen to the old timers. They need to take a group of players both Pvp and pve and have them help and test beta versions of a total revamp. It needs to happen. Thanks for the thread bro, great read, and I look forward to seeing others thoughts.

[IGN Storm]

Based on the responses I concluded that to enjoy the game we need either:
a) Devs take actions
or
b) A time machine

I personally dont care. Learn and adapt for me.

[NECROREAPER]

The sad part is is that it'll never return to how it was back when we were still new to the game, and that's fine since the game itself has grown and evolved as we have. What's not okay is that the game hasn't been growing in a positive manner lately (the past year and half or so). I feel like the main root of the problem is that the maturity and age level of the players has drastically decreased since we've been around but it can't be helped since the population boom of the game. Unfortunately It is what it is and we just have to cope with it.

[Freobr]

Ehh.. mobile phones

[Freobr]

The biggest thing that is needed is attitude change by players. Nowadays for example if you offer like 1.3m for a red helm you get called a kid and an a**. I lost this weekend 7mil. In a trade that was really expensive guy didn't give me rest 6.5m and I payed accidentally 6.8m for demonic xbow set and the guy didn't want to give me 1m back because the original deal was 5.8. People are greedy, greedy, greedy. And no one truly seems to enjoy the game. I also can mention that one guy of the previous 2 was a famous forumer that has made a big guide on forums.


You people really need to think what's the point in PL. To get rich over night by scamming someone? I can't really trust any stranger in this game anymore.


The meaning of PL anyways is to farm your gold, have own goals. There's pretty much no one doing this anymore.

[Oldcoot]

All I do is pve all I need to be happy is more content. That doesn't mean new cap. More story line with quests and I don't mean kill anything 76 times, run me around the map give me a reason to revisit lower maps and I'll help noobs along the way by default.

[aldoric]

In my thoughts, really anything up to sewers was decent. I still love the game but its become more into a competition on who has more plat instead of it being about the experience. I'm aware space time studios needs to make money off it but the whole thing about purchasing potions using real money really did take away from the experience of playing the game. That's my opinion anyway.

[Extreme]

I'm not good with words but here it goes, for me Pvp is all left in PL.. All my really good friends (By real good friends, I mean a friend that doesn't just do something nice when they need something but everytime). I do really appreciate the effort sts has put to the game past few months, but in my opinion bringing PL back like back then is something really hard to change, especially like many people has mentioned above "Immaturity",many people has a smart phone or tablet nowadays, we can't really see if they are adults or just some kid hiding behind their toon trash talking or spawning. Maybe an Update MIGHT help get oldies back here, I'm just hoping sts has something they are working with in the future.

-Ex

[tHelonestud]

Pretty much I would say the only actual game attribute that caused this all was elixirs, I suggested awhile back to atleast tone back the stat increasing elxirs from 3x to just a mere 10% boost, atleast even leveling you would actually see the strengths and weaknesses of your class even if you have 4x on xp. I remember the old shadowcave runs and even the AO3 bosses. At the time during 56 cap you could join a pug and 90% of the time you would take out boss first time, now leveling through sewers with pugs is one of the hardest areas.

PvE hardly exists now, you can tank the elite red dragon with a dexbear on thrashers, farming doesn't even take teamwork any more scatterbears are rarely booted, like you used to see often

[Chopper]

balance the pay players and free players by lowering the effectiveness/cost of exlixirs. Remove the XP anywhere elixir.

New content, lots of it in short periods. People will get excited again, new players will join and dont make contests like Cap in 4 days type, which only encourage elixir spending and selfishness. Players who are excited and exploring new levels at the same time wont nearly be as rude, etc. to each other.

Also, hire some people to patrol the CS and towns for scammers and instantly suspend accounts of those scamming people

[CrimsonTider]

Also, hire some people to patrol the CS and towns for scammers and instantly suspend accounts of those scamming people


Exactly. The thing is, if they would take some reports more seriously, we would be rid of those who truly cause problems and scare those who try to immitate it. I understamd there are a lot of "false" reports out there, but when I spend 30 minutes takng pictures, gathering info, and sending a detailed report only to see that person again over the next few weeks, it's disheartening.


Gotta find a better, more efficient way to "take out the trash."

[Rare]

Hmmm what would it take to get it back to the glory days? Honestly? Not much. Getting rid of all the crap that, in my opinion ruined the game (but made tons of money for STS):

1. thrasher pwnage punch (all the elixirs really, but this one most of all)
2. xp anywhere elixir
3. turnstile dungeons

unfortunately, like Crim mentioned, the best part of this game was the community. Unfortunately, that aspect is all but gone now. When I log in, my friend list is mostly all offline. I do see some still on, and kudos to them for grinding it out.

Just in case there is a resurgence, I do still have my toons and enough gold to equip them. We'll see if it ever happens. On the bright side, maybe PL is reaching the end of its days as a cash machine. Its possible that STS will make some changes that can bring back all that was good prior to BS.

[Roberto077]

It's nice to see a bunch of people making highly detailed posts that aren't meant to attack someone.

On Topic: I agree with Crim's post on the fact that the intelligible and nicer part of the community is fading and there isn't a way to completely change that.

Back then PL was a mysterious game with much to explore and more knowledge to be gained. That sense of learning made players try to seek intelligence from other people in hopes that they have found a way, but now people aren't acting as intelligible as they used to because of the simplicity of the current game. Any player can jump into PvE with just about any build and completely dominate his way up to level 50 where they might need to rethink some strategies. Back in 2010-11, I struggled my way making gold and leveling up because of need for potions and the GIANT (compared to now) xp requirement to level up before 50.

I feel as if the challenge has been lost with the xp nerf, daily elixirs, and regular elixirs, and if there was a way the STS could undo all those pieces which ruined the PvE and , in some cases, the PvP experience, then I think the game could make it longer without a cap. If the sewers cap was this long, then I wouldn't be done.

Just an opinion. I might have come across in a different way than intended at some parts.

My list of things to do:

1. Make elixirs get removed once you die
2. Increase the xp requirements to level up between 1-65

[MightyMicah]

The sad part is is that it'll never return to how it was back when we were still new to the game, and that's fine since the game itself has grown and evolved as we have. What's not okay is that the game hasn't been growing in a positive manner lately (the past year and half or so). I feel like the main root of the problem is that the maturity and age level of the players has drastically decreased since we've been around but it can't be helped since the population boom of the game. Unfortunately It is what it is and we just have to cope with it.

I think you pretty much nailed but, but I would also submit to you that there is a reason the immature crowd is growing and the mature crowd is dying. Certain types of games attract certain types of players. You know?

[Rare]

I think you pretty much nailed but, but I would also submit to you that there is a reason the immature crowd is growing and the mature crowd is dying. Certain types of games attract certain types of players. You know?

Well, for one, its pretty obvious that the business model STS employs is for a revolving player base. There are a lot of players that want/wanted to be loyal to this game. But time and again we see that it wasn't the model the company is pushing.

[Nickyeagle]

I joined PL when the Sewers were the level cap. I really met a lot of new friends during this time, and I coninously keep playing PL. I really couldn't stop. About a year ago, the game just got boring. As I wasn't able to spend money on Plat, I knew that I had no shot at ever reaching the level cap. I would come on about once a month, and play for maybe 2 hours. Now, it seems I come on once every 6 months for 2 minutes. Really, I think that PL has just been nearly forgotten about. I don't mean that as hatred toward Spacetime, I mean, the company is extremely successful and have amazing staff, but I think the reason everyone left was because of the lack of new content. Even when we do get like a new map or level cap, 90% of the items are reused, just simply given a different name and stats. I think maybe more creative and enjoyable quests and campaigns would return people (including myself) back to PL.

[Rare]

I dunno about that. For me, at least, it wasn't about content. That's not why I left. I left because the game got extremely boring without hemorrhaging money for platinum.

I never really was into PL PVP so that wasn't an option. Even just grinding, if you weren't potted you weren't pulling your weight.

[Suentous PO]

I can't consider any time the "glory days", I've seen the same immaturity in some times others have mentioned here as the best.
I think what some are describing as glory days are just their personal favorites.
Other than some pvp eras, people are too varied and our ability to see the entire community is too limited to make sweeping statements.
Regardless of when I think is the best time, I think it's a little unfair to label new folks as the worst. It's just a bit elitist, as if to say before you it was great, but now it's the worst.
That can't be the community we want, the "you guys can't compare to us" vibe.
Yes there are reasons to be critical, but sometimes it's just farting in the elevator so to say.

[Oldcoot]

I crop dust the isles in wal-mart does that count

[MightyMicah]

I dunno about that. For me, at least, it wasn't about content. That's not why I left. I left because the game got extremely boring without hemorrhaging money for platinum.

I never really was into PL PVP so that wasn't an option. Even just grinding, if you weren't potted you weren't pulling your weight.

So content wasn't the reason you left but you got bored of the content so that's why you left?

[MightyMicah]

I can't consider any time the "glory days", I've seen the same immaturity in some times others have mentioned here as the best.
I think what some are describing as glory days are just their personal favorites.
Other than some pvp eras, people are too varied and our ability to see the entire community is too limited to make sweeping statements.
Regardless of when I think is the best time, I think it's a little unfair to label new folks as the worst. It's just a bit elitist, as if to say before you it was great, but now it's the worst.
That can't be the community we want, the "you guys can't compare to us" vibe.
Yes there are reasons to be critical, but sometimes it's just farting in the elevator so to say.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but I'd have to disagree with you on this entirely. If you can't see a distinct change in the way this community has treated each other since day once, then I'd perhaps submit to you that you're part of the decline.

[Renegade]

I've been around for quite some time and have seen the game evolve quite a bit. Personally I really miss the way pve used to be. Lots of strategy being used, and of course, no elixirs required. Now though, even if you're capped with the best gear possible, you still struggle. I view this as a tactic to make money from sts. Make the levels ridiculously hard and slow so people buy plat right? Another money making tactic which I hate is the low drop rates in the regular pve maps. Just so people pay plat for the plat maps. If these things were changed I believe pve would improve significantly.

As for PvP, I'm glad they showed some interest and tried to make changes. But they went about it the wrong way. As Efm mentioned, they should've looked at previous caps like sewers and look at what made that cap so balanced. The community is also a big problem in PvP. Back then if you went into PvP with a big ego you'd get smacked. Now though everyone thinks they're the best. Most have a huge ego. I guess there's nothing sts can do about that right. Unless they truly balanced PvP and thee players completely sucked. A game with no skill required is no fun ya know.


The devs are always going to focus on their new games. They're going to keep pumping out games. If pl is lucky enough to get a new cap its going to be just like blacksmoke. There will be plat maps again. There will ridiculously hard levels again, and you'll provably wait another year for next cap after that. The community I joined is almost completely dead as others said. The game I used to love no longer exists. I think some people need to come to terms with that. The game is never going to be the way it used to be. A new gen has taken over. Unfortunately most are immature, selfish, and ignorant. Sts has established itself as a company now. They don't need to do all the little things they used to do. Like listening to the community, or even bring out new content. Because people are still going to keep playing.

Sorry for the long rant. I'm not very good at keeping it short. I've been unhappy with the game for quite some time. I tried to keep hope. Hoping that sts actually cared about its players. And no matter how much they say they do. Actions speak louder than words, and of course they don't show it. I stuck around for a long time, hoping. Which i regret now. I finally realize things are never going to change. Good luck to you players who still have a passion for this game. But as for me, I'm done waiting for something that will never happen. Time for me to finally leave. I wish the best of luck to all of you. Cya!

-Obey

[Fusionstrike]

New content is the engine that drives PL. When that went away, everything began to crumble.

When people believe the developers are engaged and actively supporting the game, they

anticipate the new content by trying to cap, gathering gold for new items, strategizing about when to sell current gear, etc.
provide constructive feedback to developers and each other
behave better because the threat of punishment is real
invest in creating multiple characters so they can try them out with the new content/gear/maps/etc
overall just have a sense of building their something (characters, wealth, skills) for the future


We've seen pretty much the reverse of all of these things since support has withdrawn. Why not scam people when odds of someone doing something about it are so small? Why not be insulting and unfriendly since you won't need their help working through new content? Why show any manners in PvP since nobody's ever going to do anything to correct the imbalances (i.e. you'll be OP forever)?

While I understand it's human nature to pine for the "good old days", it's not like PL was inhabited by nothing but angels wandering with child-like innocence through the garden of Eden. People pushed as far as they could then as now, but there were those with the power to push back still engaged then. Today there's just not very much attention being invested to dissuade the wrong-doers, so we see more and more of them while those who just wanted to play PL straight up continue to head for the exits out of boredom.

[Suentous PO]

I don't mean to be a jerk, but I'd have to disagree with you on this entirely. If you can't see a distinct change in the way this community has treated each other since day once, then I'd perhaps submit to you that you're part of the decline.

I do not choose to defend either position, that the community is better of worse.
My point is more in line with, be less judgmental, and, we don't see everything to the point that we can effectively say the new players deserve to be reminded that they don't compare.
My message was about tolerance and non judgment.
It's part of our job as a community to be inclusive, I'm saying imagine being a newer player and the elders keep saying everything sucks now compared to then.
Im part of the "decline" lol.
C'mon Micah, no need for us to be at odds on everything possible.

[Rare]

So content wasn't the reason you left but you got bored of the content so that's why you left?

Nah I got bored of the game play. Not the content. I could explain it much deeper, but I'm on mobile. Maybe try digging a little deeper and possibly read my previous posts.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[Justg]

As for PvP, I'm glad they showed some interest and tried to make changes. But they went about it the wrong way.

We asked the community what needed fixing: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?112724-Your-Top-Three-Things-that-Need-Fixin%92-in-PL&highlight=fixin


Hoping that sts actually cared about its players. And no matter how much they say they do. Actions speak louder than words, and of course they don't show it.

We implemented changes that the community suggested (these are actions) and tweaked based on your feedback: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114961-PL-Balance-after-the-Great-Nerf-of-2013&highlight=great+nerf

We have explained why we are on the path that we are on, and how you would not have any of our games to play if we did not do the things we did: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?111948-The-PL-Community-as-a-Whole-Today/page2

Here is a sub-text of that post:


Very nice thread, we love to communicate when opinions are presented like this. A couple of things to consider:

We built PL, it has our hearts and souls in it. Many of the NPCs are named after our family (my kids are in there too). We love this game as much, if not more than you do. It is, quite literally, our baby.

When you generalize your discontent by saying: "Everyone feel this way" it loses some impact. We get that you may feel this way, and that several people may feel this way, but there is a concept known as the "vocal minority". We hear and respect you, but you don't speak for everyone.

When you demand answers, and get an answer that you don't like, please don't be angry at us for our honesty. I told you there is no cap on PL's horizon because I don't want to lead you on. This is not disrespectful towards you. This is not a unique situation for Spacetime. Every game has its fans, and those fans want THEIR games to be expanded. But we have 10x the number of players in AL that we do in PL. And we hope to have more in our Battle games.

When you threaten to leave if we don't do something, or if we announce a new game, your feedback loses impact as well. We are a company trying to survive in an extremely unstable and challenging environment. We will continue to announce new games. We will also look for ways to continue to support the games we have out now.

All companies need to grow to survive, especially in Mobile. If we did NOT take the path we are on, than you would not have ANY of these games to play, because we would surely be out of business.

So we will continue to run these games that we all love so much, and we will continue to try and fix things you don't like and expand on the things that you do. And we will continue to bring you new things so that we can continue running the older things.

Thank you for your feedback.



And yet in spite of this, you speak in absolutes. Sweeping generalities. This does not serve the community either.

[MightyMicah]

I do not choose to defend either position, that the community is better of worse.
My point is more in line with, be less judgmental, and, we don't see everything to the point that we can effectively say the new players deserve to be reminded that they don't compare.
My message was about tolerance and non judgment.
It's part of our job as a community to be inclusive, I'm saying imagine being a newer player and the elders keep saying everything sucks now compared to then.
Im part of the "decline" lol.
C'mon Micah, no need for us to be at odds on everything possible.

I believe you may have missed my point. My intention was not to be at odds with you on everything possible and neither was my intention to exclude certain new people or be intolerant/judgmental. I was simply disagreeing with you on the point which I thought you were trying to make about the community not changing. Statements like, "I can't consider any time the "glory days", I've seen the same immaturity in some times others have mentioned here as the best." and, "I think what some are describing as glory days are just their personal favorites." seem to indicate that you feel the change in the community is subject to opinion and perspective. I do not believe this is the case at all. That doesn't mean that I feel every single person who joins the game is some kind of loser, just like I don't believe everyone who joined the game back in the "glory days" was some kind of saint. I also highly doubt anyone is offended when players mention some kind of "glory days." If they are, honestly, that's their problem. There is no reason at all to take any kind of offense.

Now, you mentioned in your previous post that you were simply making a statement about not judging and being tolerant. While it seems to me that you were implying more than that, I have no reason to not take you at your word. I've been accused of implying all sorts of crazy stuff in the past, and I have also read into posts too much in the past. That being said, I definitely agree that we should keep an open mind and be non-judgmental as well as tolerant.

[MightyMicah]

Nah I got bored of the game play. Not the content. I could explain it much deeper, but I'm on mobile. Maybe try digging a little deeper and possibly read my previous posts.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

Hmm I think I gotcha. Do you have any links to post or something? I got nothing else to do and I like reading opinions, especially on stuff like this.

[Suentous PO]

@ MM I do feel that many changes in the community can seem to arise from personal experience and not necessarily be the best indicator of the whole.
I had a lot of bad experience at the sewers times and great ones of nuri, if I didn't make the distinction between my personal experiences then I could in all honesty say the sewers were the worst community, I'm not but it would just be my opinion that I was passing off as fact.
Perception can influence what we speak of when we makes generalizations.
I doubt anyone is taking offense at others opinions, I'm often seeing things from several sides.
Seems we aren't to far apart here then.

[Cheenivie]

We asked the community what needed fixing: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?112724-Your-Top-Three-Things-that-Need-Fixin%92-in-PL&highlight=fixin



We implemented changes that the community suggested (these are actions) and tweaked based on your feedback: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114961-PL-Balance-after-the-Great-Nerf-of-2013&highlight=great+nerf

We have explained why we are on the path that we are on, and how you would not have any of our games to play if we did not do the things we did: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?111948-The-PL-Community-as-a-Whole-Today/page2

Here is a sub-text of that post:



And yet in spite of this, you speak in absolutes. Sweeping generalities. This does not serve the community either.

Ouch ownt by G

[Argyros]

I agree with Cheen and Oldcoot on this one guys.

[Oldcoot]

I agree with Cheen and Oldcoot on this one guys.
Thank you, I was wondering if I stood alone on that one or not.

[CrimsonTider]

Thank you, I was wondering if I stood alone on that one or not.

You don't. You have your dog with you as clearly depicted in your sig. ;)

[Mothwing]

You don't. You have your dog with you as clearly depicted in your sig. ;)

Don't forget his best pal Walking Shtick...

[angeldawn]

I'm not sure how to word this ...

I do believe the immaturity level of players, scammers and overinflated egos hurt the community on a whole. I also think we need to look at ourself and how we have changed since our personal "glory days". I'm sure if you say you are still the person and act the exact same way you are lying to yourself or it's close to a miracle. I know I'm a different person now. More vocal not as innocent and intimated. I don't just sit there and let ppl talk out their asses like I once did.

I'm not saying ppl back then were angels or gods because back then ppl weren't 100% helpful or nice to strangers either, which I understand. The community wasn't perfect back then either. Like the GOA tired if answering the question what is that shield where did u get it? And please don't all you GOAs reply and say I always answer and I always help because I was one of those noobs, before reading the forums and educating myself, asked multiple ppl, multiple times and never got a response.

How many of you stay with in your own circle of friends or forumers? How many actually talk to new ppl and accept their requests? How many of you actually say hi back every time someone says hello to you?

We are part of the problem.

[Suentous PO]

I think I understand what your saying Angel, and it's part of the reason I was contrary to the- old players were the best, new ones are the worst- thing. Dismissing the potential and ignoring newer folk can perpetuate some of the very problems we view as part of a "decline".

[MightyMicah]

I definitely get that @Angel and Suentous BO ;)

[Oldcoot]

I do angel,
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q781/oldcootxx/null_zps199e4b55.jpg

[CrimsonTider]

I'm not sure how to word this ...

I do believe the immaturity level of players, scammers and overinflated egos hurt the community on a whole. I also think we need to look at ourself and how we have changed since our personal "glory days". I'm sure if you say you are still the person and act the exact same way you are lying to yourself or it's close to a miracle. I know I'm a different person now. More vocal not as innocent and intimated. I don't just sit there and let ppl talk out their asses like I once did.

I'm not saying ppl back then were angels or gods because back then ppl weren't 100% helpful or nice to strangers either, which I understand. The community wasn't perfect back then either. Like the GOA tired if answering the question what is that shield where did u get it? And please don't all you GOAs reply and say I always answer and I always help because I was one of those noobs, before reading the forums and educating myself, asked multiple ppl, multiple times and never got a response.

How many of you stay with in your own circle of friends or forumers? How many actually talk to new ppl and accept their requests? How many of you actually say hi back every time someone says hello to you?

We are part of the problem.

I guess I'm the only exception to the rule. I have conducted myself in the same manner I did when I began 3 years ago. I have made friends along the way (didn't know you till recently), go out of my way to help those in need, and do not allow kids (I consider immature players kids as well because that is the mentality they portray) to dictate my attitude in game. Do I attempt to correct behavior? Yes. But I also know when to walk away. The trick is to ignore. Plain and simple. If you don't feed the troll, the troll will eventually cease.

Do I agree with you that some people change? Yes. I have recently deleted some of my old "friends" for changes in attitude, becoming trolls, and breaking ToS. I have also witnessed others whom I use to consider "respectful" who are now straight up turds. However, I can also give you a list of players who strive to be helpful and are not "fake."

Again, these are my observations and opinions, but trust me when I say if this game were too far gone, Crim would be gone. Hope and patience my friends, hope and patience.

[Caiahar]

I only feel if PL got as much attention as AL, things would be different.
Right now they're giving a bit attention, but not as before.

[MightyMicah]

I only feel if PL got as much attention as AL, things would be different.
Right now they're giving a bit attention, but not as before.

The thing is (as we have all heard many a time), they are a business. They've got bills to pay and kids to feed. Right now AL is raking in the big bucks which means they're going to put effort into that. They hate to see their other games go to waste, I'm sure of it, but there's not much they can do. Hopefully PL will catch on again and start making them money and then they can start giving it more attention as well.

[MightyMicah]

I guess I'm the only exception to the rule. I have conducted myself in the same manner I did when I began 3 years ago. I have made friends along the way (didn't know you till recently), go out of my way to help those in need, and do not allow kids (I consider immature players kids as well because that is the mentality they portray) to dictate my attitude in game. Do I attempt to correct behavior? Yes. But I also know when to walk away. The trick is to ignore. Plain and simple. If you don't feed the troll, the troll will eventually cease.

Do I agree with you that some people change? Yes. I have recently deleted some of my old "friends" for changes in attitude, becoming trolls, and breaking ToS. I have also witnessed others whom I use to consider "respectful" who are now straight up turds. However, I can also give you a list of players who strive to be helpful and are not "fake."

Again, these are my observations and opinions, but trust me when I say if this game were too far gone, Crim would be gone. Hope and patience my friends, hope and patience.

Crim, you're the only person I know who can say, "I'm the exception" and have me believe him 100%. I certainly wish I could say the same about myself. Honestly, though, I started this game when I was 14 (freshman) and now I'm about to be 18 in like a month and I've already started college. Needless to say, a lot of maturing happens in that time period. I can't say I've always been a joy to be around to new players or even old players for that matter, but hear me out when I say I'm giving my best foot forward. I truly believe that with people like you and countless other oldies still lurking around, we could, all together, very well bring PL into the best era it's ever had. With the recent attention it's gotten, I believe people have found that spark of hope that they needed to continue on, so to speak. We'll see what happens in the future, I suppose. :)

[Oldcoot]

I think it needs some promotion, anyone remember the TV commercial? I laughed hard at it :)

[Caiahar]

I only feel if PL got as much attention as AL, things would be different.
Right now they're giving a bit attention, but not as before.

The thing is (as we have all heard many a time), they are a business. They've got bills to pay and kids to feed. Right now AL is raking in the big bucks which means they're going to put effort into that. They hate to see their other games go to waste, I'm sure of it, but there's not much they can do. Hopefully PL will catch on again and start making them money and then they can start giving it more attention as well.
Yeah, I know that.
But..I think PL would have the same amount of players and where people pay lotsa $$...if StG focused the attention on PL, not AL.
If attention wasnt given to AL, and gaven to Pl, I think it would be very succesful.

[angeldawn]

@Coot
You are wonderful :) and here I thought I was special cuz you were my friend.

I do not accept all requests. I do have about 1500 though. I also keep a good bit of 'acquaintances' on my friends request list and still chat with them. I think my logic or justification for it is that by not adding all the randoms it's saves me ALOT of grief. Girls deal with more crap online and it just gets worse.

@Crims
You are just so lovable!! :-D

I don't think the community is too far gone. I just think some of us (myself included) could be better.

[Oldcoot]

Angel, your definitely on my short list of good folk :)

[Justg]

The fact that you are all here talking about how to be a better community means that you are already an awesome community. Always have been :)

[killinclaw]

This is the "deepest" thread I've seen in a while and every one has really good opinions and ideas. I have the same sentiments as old coots, having a new cap doesn't necessarily mean a better game, its the lack of content thats available.
And angel hit it right on the nose with her post.
Imo, there are no glory days, I know I didn't have any, and I started playing when sewers was the cap. My name back then was Seanishesin, before I changed it, and I grinded my way through every level. Didnt like to buy plat back then so I did thousands if crush the keeper runs, thousands of bb hide out runs, then when nuris came out, thousands more there. Help was few and between, from same lvl characters and higher characters. The game, pl, was new and exciting but as far as calling them glory days, I dont think so. My glory days are now, these days. I know the system, know my characters, been around the block a few times, have a lot of gold, all the sets I want, aaand have good frnds, in and out of guild.
Now as for future changes, they have to be refreshing, like a new beginning in a sense. New gear that won't offset a lot of things, new pets, I'd even like em to battle, pokemon style lol. New maps added to ones that already exists, along with new quests with rewarded items, gears. Basically new content that will attract new players and hopefully bring others back to pl.
Just my opinion. ..

[killinclaw]

Maaaan, I wish I was a dev lol

[Anatroak]

everythings too expensive in pl half cant afford it and half can afford it. ex.: savage set, swift, hate, shadow, fiery, humanian sets, etc

[Cheenivie]

everythings too expensive in pl half cant afford it and half can afford it. ex.: savage set, swift, hate, shadow, fiery, humanian sets, etc

And 3/4 of the half that can afford it are people who farm/merch hard the 1/4 that's left are either lucky, buy gold with plat or farm plat maps. Lazyness is a factor here..

[Roberto077]

Maaaan, I wish I was a dev lol

Step 1: learn to program
Step 2: be awesome
Step 3 - Application: Imma be a spacetim.
Step 4: take a walk
Step 5: to Austin
Step 6: find a place to live
Step 7: forgot how to program *wink*
Step 8: learn how to program again from a spacetim
Step 9: bribe
Step 10: join a gang called "The Spacetims"
Step 11: raid the STS office
Step 12: return all the stuff you stole using a separate identity
Step 13: go for a walk
Step 14: take a nap
Step 15: re-read all previous steps
Step 16 - Application II: I WANA BE AN SPACE
Step 17: cry in the happy corner for a bit
Step 18: learn how to program a 3rd time
Step 19: go to college
Step 20: go to the STS office
Step 21: get onto one of their puters
Step 22: type in textpad: g.drawstring("i am spacetim now", 10, 10)
Step 23: compile java
Step 24: run java applet
Step 25: u a game dev naow
Step 26: celebrate

[Caiahar]

Step 1: learn to program
Step 2: be awesome
Step 3 - Application: Imma be a spacetim.
Step 4: take a walk
Step 5: to Austin
Step 6: find a place to live
Step 7: forgot how to program *wink*
Step 8: learn how to program again from a spacetim
Step 9: bribe
Step 10: join a gang called "The Spacetims"
Step 11: raid the STS office
Step 12: return all the stuff you stole using a separate identity
Step 13: go for a walk
Step 14: take a nap
Step 15: re-read all previous steps
Step 16 - Application II: I WANA BE AN SPACE
Step 17: cry in the happy corner for a bit
Step 18: learn how to program a 3rd time
Step 19: go to college
Step 20: go to the STS office
Step 21: get onto one of their puters
Step 22: type in textpad: g.drawstring("i am spacetim now", 10, 10)
Step 23: compile java
Step 24: run java applet
Step 25: u a game dev naow
Step 26: celebrate

Lol!!!


All for one, and one for all.

[killinclaw]

Lol, Robert, you're hilarious!

[Mothwing]

Crim, I think if you were to quit right now, the whole community would fall apart. I am so thankful that you are still here, posting amazing things over and over again. You are the biggest role model of the PL community, and I think a lot of us take that for granted. I cannot tell you how much I love reading your posts, and just saying to myself "Why couldn't I think of that?" It is such an honor to be able to play this game with you, and you have inspired me (starting now) to stop the impulsive actions that I tend to do. I think a lot of the trolling and immaturity is starting to get at some of the veterans of this community, and it's so cool to see that one of us can't be affected. Starting now, I am going to try to make a difference with the new players. If we can't change end game, then go to the root of the problem. Teach people that trolling isn't cool, and help them develop a love for the game like the rest of us.

Thank you for not giving up on this community Crim.

[Nihiliste]

Crim, I think if you were to quit right now, the whole community would fall apart. I am so thankful that you are still here, posting amazing things over and over again. You are the biggest role model of the PL community, and I think a lot of us take that for granted. I cannot tell you how much I love reading your posts, and just saying to myself "Why couldn't I think of that?" It is such an honor to be able to play this game with you, and you have inspired me (starting now) to stop the impulsive actions that I tend to do. I think a lot of the trolling and immaturity is starting to get at some of the veterans of this community, and it's so cool to see that one of us can't be affected. Starting now, I am going to try to make a difference with the new players. If we can't change end game, then go to the root of the problem. Teach people that trolling isn't cool, and help them develop a love for the game like the rest of us.

Thank you for not giving up on this community Crim.

It's all levels...not just end game.

[Mothwing]

It's all levels...not just end game.

Yeah I poorly worded that...I meant if we can teach the new players how much of an impact trolling, trash talking, etc. has, then we might be able to make a difference.

[Roberto077]

Lol, Robert, you're hilarious!

But seriously, you need to have a lot of programming experience in order to make a game like PL, or even just to run it.

[WhoIsThis]

I'm currently on a train typing this, so I'm hoping I'll have more time later this weekend (or next week). So far though, I have refrained from participating, as I am more interested in seeing what people have to say.

Based on this conversation, I can conclude the following:

1. The general consensus is that the quality of the community is in general decline. The loss of many of the oldies has left a hole that nothing can fill. Compounding the situation immensely, the new generation is simply not in a position to pick up the losses. The issue isn't so much that there are a lack of new good players as it is the percentage of new good to bad players. From the new generation, we do not see a new Ellyidol, a new Royce, or a new Physiologic emerging.

2. The lack of content has taken it's toll on the game, which is somewhat related to part 1. The existing content is simply not enough to attract quality new players (most will end up in AL), nor will it attract back many of the old greats.

3. PvP is in need of a total revamp. There are major class imbalances. The nerf is likely only the tip of the scale of the magnitude of issues. All stats should be built with PvP in mind first, seeing that PvE has become severely elixir dominated.

The state of PvP balance is also another issue - good PvPers are not going to be attracted unless we can expect a reasonable degree of balance.

4. This brings me to the next point, which is the extent that elixir domination has taken hold. Skill is no longer rewarded in PvE, and indeed, skilled players are hard to find. For example, scatter bears have become the status quo. We now have 2 types of runs - first where there is at least 1 elixir user in which case the run has very little challenge, the second, where there are no elixirs, which becomes an exercise in frustration.

5. The rich-poor gap has become a severe issue. We now have the gap between a very wealthy population and a population that cannot afford the top end gear with little hope of upward mobility.

6. Perhaps the biggest issue of all (next to the lack of new content) is the overall attitude of new players. It's a mentality thing I guess. When you are dealing with a playerbase unwilling to learn to play their class effectively, and unwilling to learn from existing veterans, you have an environment that is well, problematic.

Ok, seeing this thread, I think we should address the issues one at a time. The easiest by far to ask for is reforms to existing gear so that will be the object of my first major thread.

[Rare]

4 5 and 6 are all related to the same thing.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

[WhoIsThis]

The thing is (as we have all heard many a time), they are a business. They've got bills to pay and kids to feed. Right now AL is raking in the big bucks which means they're going to put effort into that. They hate to see their other games go to waste, I'm sure of it, but there's not much they can do. Hopefully PL will catch on again and start making them money and then they can start giving it more attention as well.

Remember what I said. AL is not eternal.

You know it's interesting. In 2011, SL was the latest and greatest that STS had to offer. There were quite a few posts saying that SL would avoid the issues that had plagued PL and that it would be the shining beacon of mobile gaming. I disagreed at the time. Well, today is 2013, and well, I wish I did not have the last laugh on that one.

The real question is, what happens after AL. Either BD becomes the new AL, STS has yet another game in development (I bet they do at this very moment), or they redouble their efforts on existing IP.

I think it's the third one that has the best potential to earn a truly big fanbase if done correctly, but that's the big "if".

[XghostzX]

@Whoisthis - That pretty much sums it up.

This issue has been addressed in the past, but I've always had an issue in our PL economy and how everything is overpriced. Am I the only one that feels we are in need of a gold sink?

As Whoisthis mentioned, there is a large gap between the poor and the rich, and it will continue to stay like that. I consider my 5mill to be on the poorer side of PL (as all of my good buddies have like 80+mill).

[WhoIsThis]

Ok a few replies worth noting, more will come later.


I'm not sure how to word this ...

I do believe the immaturity level of players, scammers and overinflated egos hurt the community on a whole. I also think we need to look at ourself and how we have changed since our personal "glory days". I'm sure if you say you are still the person and act the exact same way you are lying to yourself or it's close to a miracle. I know I'm a different person now. More vocal not as innocent and intimated. I don't just sit there and let ppl talk out their asses like I once did.

I'm not saying ppl back then were angels or gods because back then ppl weren't 100% helpful or nice to strangers either, which I understand. The community wasn't perfect back then either. Like the GOA tired if answering the question what is that shield where did u get it? And please don't all you GOAs reply and say I always answer and I always help because I was one of those noobs, before reading the forums and educating myself, asked multiple ppl, multiple times and never got a response.

How many of you stay with in your own circle of friends or forumers? How many actually talk to new ppl and accept their requests? How many of you actually say hi back every time someone says hello to you?

We are part of the problem.

I agree that the existing players did help bring about the end. But not accepting friend requests I don't think was the issue. There are people who quite literally spam those requests to anybody. But change is indeed inevitable. I do agree though that a "teaching" system would help immensely, but it's entirely contingent on new players actually wanting to learn and to aspire to be better than they are.


Crim, I think if you were to quit right now, the whole community would fall apart. I am so thankful that you are still here, posting amazing things over and over again. You are the biggest role model of the PL community, and I think a lot of us take that for granted. I cannot tell you how much I love reading your posts, and just saying to myself "Why couldn't I think of that?" It is such an honor to be able to play this game with you, and you have inspired me (starting now) to stop the impulsive actions that I tend to do. I think a lot of the trolling and immaturity is starting to get at some of the veterans of this community, and it's so cool to see that one of us can't be affected. Starting now, I am going to try to make a difference with the new players. If we can't change end game, then go to the root of the problem. Teach people that trolling isn't cool, and help them develop a love for the game like the rest of us.

Thank you for not giving up on this community Crim.

Hence the issue I noted. The community did once lose someone very important because they fundamentally disagreed with the direction of the game, a very long time ago. A person, who at the time influenced the game as much as Crim - a person only most of the oldies would know: Royce.

I believe that earlier it was noted that posters in this thread speak in absolutes. Well - I hate to say it, but there are absolutes in many cases in terms of the legacies that people have left on the community. I must admit I am not a fan of the politically correct "everyone is special in their own way" kind of stuff. Seeing that we cannot meet face to face (or probably will not ever), we must look to their contributions based on what they say on the forums and do in the games.


@Whoisthis - That pretty much sums it up.

This issue has been addressed in the past, but I've always had an issue in our PL economy and how everything is overpriced. Am I the only one that feels we are in need of a gold sink?

As Whoisthis mentioned, there is a large gap between the poor and the rich, and it will continue to stay like that. I consider my 5mill to be on the poorer side of PL (as all of my good buddies have like 80+mill).

A money sink would have to target the very richest if that were to work and not harm the poorest. Often money sinks in other MMOs, from experience hurt the poor the most. The other problem is that many wealthy players are a disproportionately high source of income for STS in terms of platinum sales and that they may resent a money sink.

I'm going to think about this more in depth. I suspect though that a solution would radically change the economy.

[Mothwing]

So nice to have you back :)

[MightyMicah]

Remember what I said. AL is not eternal.

You know it's interesting. In 2011, SL was the latest and greatest that STS had to offer. There were quite a few posts saying that SL would avoid the issues that had plagued PL and that it would be the shining beacon of mobile gaming. I disagreed at the time. Well, today is 2013, and well, I wish I did not have the last laugh on that one.

The real question is, what happens after AL. Either BD becomes the new AL, STS has yet another game in development (I bet they do at this very moment), or they redouble their efforts on existing IP.

I think it's the third one that has the best potential to earn a truly big fanbase if done correctly, but that's the big "if".

In theory I certainly agree with you. It seems to me that if they would concentrate on their relatively inactive games and make them good, word would spread and they would pick up a player base as well as more cash in the long run. However, I believe it might be noteworthy to mention that some of the most successful gaming companies out there right now, to my knowledge (Which is indeed limited, I admit) have many games. Gameloft and Zynga to mention two.

I definitely agree that AL will not last forever. Other games are going to come out and the AL fan base will die eventually. As you mentioned, STS will have a few options and for some reason my gut tells me that they'll opt to release a whole new game. I guess we'll find out when the time comes.

[Argyros]

I'm currently on a train typing this, so I'm hoping I'll have more time later this weekend (or next week). So far though, I have refrained from participating, as I am more interested in seeing what people have to say.

Based on this conversation, I can conclude the following:

1. The general consensus is that the quality of the community is in general decline. The loss of many of the oldies has left a hole that nothing can fill. Compounding the situation immensely, the new generation is simply not in a position to pick up the losses. The issue isn't so much that there are a lack of new good players as it is the percentage of new good to bad players. From the new generation, we do not see a new Ellyidol, a new Royce, or a new Physiologic emerging.

2. The lack of content has taken it's toll on the game, which is somewhat related to part 1. The existing content is simply not enough to attract quality new players (most will end up in AL), nor will it attract back many of the old greats.

3. PvP is in need of a total revamp. There are major class imbalances. The nerf is likely only the tip of the scale of the magnitude of issues. All stats should be built with PvP in mind first, seeing that PvE has become severely elixir dominated.

The state of PvP balance is also another issue - good PvPers are not going to be attracted unless we can expect a reasonable degree of balance.

4. This brings me to the next point, which is the extent that elixir domination has taken hold. Skill is no longer rewarded in PvE, and indeed, skilled players are hard to find. For example, scatter bears have become the status quo. We now have 2 types of runs - first where there is at least 1 elixir user in which case the run has very little challenge, the second, where there are no elixirs, which becomes an exercise in frustration.

5. The rich-poor gap has become a severe issue. We now have the gap between a very wealthy population and a population that cannot afford the top end gear with little hope of upward mobility.

6. Perhaps the biggest issue of all (next to the lack of new content) is the overall attitude of new players. It's a mentality thing I guess. When you are dealing with a playerbase unwilling to learn to play their class effectively, and unwilling to learn from existing veterans, you have an environment that is well, problematic.

Ok, seeing this thread, I think we should address the issues one at a time. The easiest by far to ask for is reforms to existing gear so that will be the object of my first major thread.

1. There are players who have done painful work such as Royce and the other fellows. Why don't you notice them? They are not recognized. "Back in the day," players with high intellectual abilities recieved the GOA status. For better or for worse that program has been shut down.

It's very bold of me to say this but... Y'all "oldies," are way more mature then you were 3 years ago. I love the oldies, they have so much experience. To prove my point, look at Mysticals threads/posts from 3 years ago, and check em out now. Whoa.

The "new generation," may be imature, but that because they obviously are not on the same experience level as y'all.

2. Agreed. But I think promoting upcoming content would also help, I.e. ads.

3. I play a broad range of PvP levels, and there are many imbalances. The recent tweak has solved some important issues though. Just today, I fought a 61 bear for 3 minutes, and lost. I was level 51 that is. ^^ PvP is getting there slowly though.

4. Very true. I, as an endgame bear suffer from this. Crowd control is almost nonexistent, players beckon stomp, because it looks cool and they can do it. Elixir wise, something must change?

5. Hm no. I have personal experiences with players earning enough to purchase endgame sets in 1-2 months. It takes comitment, time, and patience, but it is very possible.

6. "When you are dealing with a playerbase unwilling to learn to play their class effectively, and unwilling to learn from existing veterans, you have an environment that is well, problematic."

Hm, "...unwilling to learn..."
You may hear players talk of, "ignorant, imature, fb users," but until you actually try and teach them... You cannot judge them. Go ahead and share some knowledge.

Actions speak louder than words.

[WhoIsThis]

In theory I certainly agree with you. It seems to me that if they would concentrate on their relatively inactive games and make them good, word would spread and they would pick up a player base as well as more cash in the long run. However, I believe it might be noteworthy to mention that some of the most successful gaming companies out there right now, to my knowledge (Which is indeed limited, I admit) have many games. Gameloft and Zynga to mention two.

I definitely agree that AL will not last forever. Other games are going to come out and the AL fan base will die eventually. As you mentioned, STS will have a few options and for some reason my gut tells me that they'll opt to release a whole new game. I guess we'll find out when the time comes.

I do not consider either Gameloft or Zynga to be successful companies. Gameloft for the most part has been well, copying other people's games and porting them. What I do not expect from them is a game that will define a generation the way WoW, Starcraft, LoL, or any of the other top games are.

Zynga ... well, I have a quote I would like to share with you, but if you follow the news, they're in trouble. Pretty big trouble. I recommend reading them up in the news. Anyways, apparently they've turned to online gambling in a bid to turn around their business. There's even speculation that they may go bankrupt. Well, they rose fast, and now they seem to be in rapid decline. Google them up on the latest news.

I still maintain that the games that defined their era were for the most part, made by companies that focused.



1. There are players who have done painful work such as Royce and the other fellows. Why don't you notice them? They are not recognized. "Back in the day," players with high intellectual abilities recieved the GOA status. For better or for worse that program has been shut down.

It's very bold of me to say this but... Y'all "oldies," are way more mature then you were 3 years ago. I love the oldies, they have so much experience. To prove my point, look at Mysticals threads/posts from 3 years ago, and check em out now. Whoa.



Yes and no. I will be the first to say that we are all different people than 3 years ago. It's interesting. I was one of those that supported scrapping the GOA (let's just say I ruffled a few feathers to put it mildly). The program had split the community in two. There were people who were well, "suck-ing up" for the GOA and in some cases were getting awarded it. I'll talk more about the issues in the series of threads I will post later on.






The "new generation," may be imature, but that because they obviously are not on the same experience level as y'all.

6. "When you are dealing with a playerbase unwilling to learn to play their class effectively, and unwilling to learn from existing veterans, you have an environment that is well, problematic."

Hm, "...unwilling to learn..."
You may hear players talk of, "ignorant, imature, fb users," but until you actually try and teach them... You cannot judge them. Go ahead and share some knowledge.

Actions speak louder than words.

This one I gotta disagree with. When I say unwilling to learn, I firmly stand by what I said. The majority of players from the new generation are simply unwilling to learn. A run without elixirs often ends with one side blaming the other. The irony is that often the blamer does not understand the mechanics themselves ... and they are certainly not going to listen to someone that they are busy blaming. That's pretty common. I don't like complaining about it because I sound like a broken record, but I have to say, it's true, and judging by the posts in this thread, I'm not the only one with palpable frustration. Let's just say that more than a couple of people have tried to teach in the past, and with less than satisfactory results. Mitch even tried to open up a "teaching school" back in late 2011.

You have to understand, the first players back in 2010, were what I called "self made players". When they came in, none of the resources that you see here were available. Theorycrafting had to be developed for the first time and in that era, a lot of it was guesswork. But the difference was mentality. At the end of each run, we would in our heads, always ask ourselves, what could we have done better? That's something I asked myself every time. When my old guild lost a game to Unity, you know, I spent a long, long time asking myself that question. So did Mitch. So did Amy. Starting with what became known as the Mynas generation, I think we've seen a steady drop. While there are undoubtedly some very remarkable new players (and I'm honored by their arrivals - really I am, and I actually think you are one of those), I think that the percentage of players asking themselves how they can improve has gone down.

I myself was never a founder, nor do I belong in the generation of "self made players", but I came in with a mentality that I wanted to play my class to the best I could. I do however look up to the first generation and am humbled by their accomplishments. What did I do when I came in? I read the guides available then, used all resources I found available. That does not happen with this generation, in terms of the percent of players interested. The resources are out there and arguably more sophisticated than anything we had in well, our learning periods. The point is that it takes time, a lot of practice, and a lot of dying to get truly good at a game. A lot of the newer players - they just don't want to do that. I should mention that this is nothing new. Even in my day, there were tons of players where you could see all their stats, but they hid their PvP ones. You could always tell those were the ones that were unwilling to take the time to get good at PvP. I mean, the first time you step into PvP, you get owned. That's the same in most MMOs and MOBAs. To get good at something, you have to do your research, and most of all, practice.

I'm not perfect, nor do I pretend to be. I actually consider my main, Attackelf to be an average PvPer (although there are going to be those on this forum that will disagree with me on that one). That and the past was definitely not perfect. I don't look at the past with rose colored lenses. A lot of the features that you see around you did not exist, like guilds for example were added only in fall of 2011. The engine too was older, more primitive. But I personally would trade it all for the experiences offered in that era.

Edit:

Ok this issue seems more critical.

First will be a community building thread, then the equipment thread.

[killinclaw]

Really, really good response and postings. I really am honored to be apart of this community and to share ideas, thoughts with all of you. Especially you, moth and crim, your ideas are always so thoughtfully expressed. I myself have been around for a while, but I've stayed in the shadows, and kept my opinions to myself. But I believe now is the time for us, l Iong time pl players to express themselves, even more than what everyone has in the past.
As we can tell, justg has responded to this post, devs are listening, lets give them our minds worth. Pl may have 10 times less players than pl but even stg doesn't know how al will turn out a year, 2 years from now. Stg cares but they can only do so much.
My point is they listen, for feedback, for ideas for what we have to say, how can they as devs for this beloved game that we cherish so much, though its not their "cash cow" anymore, make it better, make it sustainable for us.
I noted some ideas in my earlier post, but I was on my lunch break from work lol, then I started thinking, if I was stg, what can I do, if I was a player, what would I want to see.
Here are just some thoughts, new cap, set in outer space, gurox's older brothers are mad, and they want to do what whatever it takes to take over altera, hence new bosses and minions. New gear, lord of the rings meet starcraft. Cyber swords, similar to light sabers, can also be like metallic arabian swords. If devs can't make a full lvl cap, then add it to existing lvls, min 2 lvls per map. Make it with a whole new story, call it guroxs revenge for all I care. Its new material for all of us. Im revealing my age here but anyone remember the "choose your adventure" books? Make each answer a different one than the previous one, with different rewards. Idk just my 2 cents, I may not be well renowned, or set records in pl but im a long term player, and I love this game just like all of you. Lets give the devs an ear full of our ideas on what we'd like to see in the future. Srry for the rambling.
But new cap id like to see, called Silver Moons if Alterra, who said Alterra only had one moon ;)

[angeldawn]

I actually find it easy to help and teach lower level new players (55 and under) PVE skills.

When running with low level new players it is easy to say. Hey by the way do you know your bird combos? Did you know you can combo with my Mage? Ok let's try it!! Ppl actually get so excited when they do this and see the combos come up on the screen. Then they start to ask what other combos are there and what else can learn.

It is also very easy in maps to say ..,. Ok guys do u know how to kill this boss? And then wait for them to answer and explain before entering boss area.

I have run into issues with higher levels like bears saying taunt is useless and not needed but lower level are very accepting as long as you aren't insulting them as you do it.

[Argyros]

I actually find it easy to help and teach lower level new players (55 and under) PVE skills.

When running with low level new players it is easy to say. Hey by the way do you know your bird combos? Did you know you can combo with my Mage? Ok let's try it!! Ppl actually get so excited when they do this and see the combos come up on the screen. Then they start to ask what other combos are there and what else can learn.

It is also very easy in maps to say ..,. Ok guys do u know how to kill this boss? And then wait for them to answer and explain before entering boss area.

I have run into issues with higher levels like bears saying taunt is useless and not needed but lower level are very accepting as long as you aren't insulting them as you do it.

Thank you Angel, you summed up exactly what I was leading to.
I have met players (55 and under) who are teachable and pretty bright.

It always starts with a player asking me a question like, "hey do you have any swords?" Most people will take this as downright begging, but that's simply not true.
I usually give them a pink/purp item right above their level, which is probably worth around 10k. They are always ecstatic.

This, in turn, gives me the chance to ask them questions, rebuke them on using combos in wrong situations. This often leads to more questions, like "what does debuff mean?" "what are my debuffs?"

To summarize, new players are often willing to learn, if you take the time to teach them.

Edit- I see bears, not even using taunt and hs. They are so important, without them, I wouldn't even play that class. >.<

[tHelonestud]

This one I gotta disagree with. When I say unwilling to learn, I firmly stand by what I said. The majority of players from the new generation are simply unwilling to learn. A run without elixirs often ends with one side blaming the other. The irony is that often the blamer does not understand the mechanics themselves ... and they are certainly not going to listen to someone that they are busy blaming. That's pretty common. I don't like complaining about it because I sound like a broken record, but I have to say, it's true, and judging by the posts in this thread, I'm not the only one with palpable frustration. Let's just say that more than a couple of people have tried to teach in the past, and with less than satisfactory results. Mitch even tried to open up a "teaching school" back in late 2011.
This is a huge thing especially endgame, I remember stepping into pvp and getting destroyed, thankfully several of my friends gave me tips and patiently taught me after I asked.
Now endgame you see a bear use rage beckon and stomp, unsure of what a bird's debuff does. When the bird is actually skilled enough to counter and pull off a fairly simple win the bear doesn't even say a disgruntled "gf" but rather "lol" or say something about luck. I really find this the most in bears, pallies, and warbirds. They act if their godlike dodge is actually based on their skill.
Heard from another bear that beckon stomp combo was "supposed to be overpowered" and that they were supposed to be most damage outputting class.
I realized this goes back to the pvp issues rather than just the community. I actually think the problems of the in game community springs from the lack of understanding for the game, and now with this pvp issues and the elixirs in pve, the lack of this need to understand it.
The game hardly promotes teamwork anymore.

[Roberto077]

Reading this full thread would take way too long for me: so to the past 17 replies, I say maybe.

EDIT: now that I have read some comments, I agree that there is little to no teamwork because of elixir dominance and easiness of PvE, and PvP at endgame can be dominated by a simple combo or build.

[Extreme]

1. Go to Tx
2. Go to sts
3. Kiss devs
4. Back home.

[CrimsonTider]

First will be a community building thread, then the equipment thread.

I can save you some time.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?101809-***Calling-All-Arms!***

[joshtheboss]

IMO a time machine would do the trick.

Sent from my One V using Tapatalk 4

[Zeus]

I've started playing PL again, mainly PvP. I have to say, after coming from AL and returning... WOW, I forgot how much better the PL community is. Sure, there are trash talkers, but not at the level that AL has them.

So, in regards to the community, I think we are pretty on path with that. There may be some things like the yola site scammers, but if we come together as a community and warn everybody about them, they too won't have much to feed on.

In regards to content updates, I truly think it's the end of the line for PL. However, does that mean that there's nothing to do? No. There are 76 different levels. Within those 76 different levels, there are 15+ gaming communities. Why do I say 15+ gaming communities? Well, there's twinking. So, if we are going by every 5 levels, that means every 5 levels there's a whole other community & tactics to learn.

However, does AL have that? Truthfully, not really. While AL has some amazing PvP & some of the best FFA I have seen through all their games, the level of skill required to PvP in PL is far superior. So, there are some advantages to PL over AL.

So, do we really need a new campaign to fix things? I wouldn't say so. However, I have noticed that other MMOs will release new gear and items to obtain that mix up the content without increasing the level cap. Perhaps, developers can try that? More elite weapons would be cool! What about elite gear like armor, weapons, etc? That would keep players busy for a while and revive many people's interest.

Again, I don't think PL needs a new campaign, just needs new content like elite gear.

[Roberto077]

Now introducing the 6 piece elite ring! :D

Provides: 50 dodge, 90% hit, 75% crit, 3 armor, 19 health, x h/s (since it can be stashed), 10 m/s, adds unique active - exterminate: wipes any of 1 enemy, 75 dex, int, and str, increases 752.3 damage, gives you a red name, gives a GoA shield, gives you Flip's staff, and you become Justgg (if you catch my drift).

[Kingzila]

It would take a ressurgence of the "oldies." What I mean by that is, the community that you and I joined is almost completely dead. No matter what changes STS makes to the game, this newer generation, and their "attitudes", will hinder any rise back to glory. The community is no where near as mature as it once was and there is a lot more selfishness in-game as well as on the forums. The "educated" are almost extinct and those with at least some knowledge of the game and it's mechanics don't want to bother with helping because of the rise of the trolls.

Sorry if I make that sound bad, but it is what it is. I started a group a few months back called "The Movement" in hopes to try and revive some of that old feeling. There is a good group who try and make an attempt to maintain a positive playing environment, but the numbers of immature, uneducated players is almost at an overwhelming level.

The rise up of trolls is kinda false since I troll daily and have never met someone who trolled like me as and old player or general troll on the Internet. I see most players that try to troll now are just cursing and spamming with caps (which is not trolling) just being childish and immature. Which feeds to your argument incredibly that the new generation of pl players and there "attitudes" will hinder any rise back to glory.

I feel with the old players such as my self are starting to get lazy since all the players we keep training act the same and have no motivation (with the exception of a hand full of good new players). I've met a lot of great players in pl back before my 5 month break off back in 2010-11 ish due to scammers became a plague in pl where they were everwhere. And Pl was staring and is started to get like that some what again.

[Kingzila]

I've started playing PL again, mainly PvP. I have to say, after coming from AL and returning... WOW, I forgot how much better the PL community is. Sure, there are trash talkers, but not at the level that AL has them.

So, in regards to the community, I think we are pretty on path with that. There may be some things like the yola site scammers, but if we come together as a community and warn everybody about them, they too won't have much to feed on.

In regards to content updates, I truly think it's the end of the line for PL. However, does that mean that there's nothing to do? No. There are 76 different levels. Within those 76 different levels, there are 15+ gaming communities. Why do I say 15+ gaming communities? Well, there's twinking. So, if we are going by every 5 levels, that means every 5 levels there's a whole other community & tactics to learn.

However, does AL have that? Truthfully, not really. While AL has some amazing PvP & some of the best FFA I have seen through all their games, the level of skill required to PvP in PL is far superior. So, there are some advantages to PL over AL.

So, do we really need a new campaign to fix things? I wouldn't say so. However, I have noticed that other MMOs will release new gear and items to obtain that mix up the content without increasing the level cap. Perhaps, developers can try that? More elite weapons would be cool! What about elite gear like armor, weapons, etc? That would keep players busy for a while and revive many people's interest.

Again, I don't think PL needs a new campaign, just needs new content like elite gear.

Oh man I've gotte like 12 yola site scammers in the past 5 months banned. Yola moves very fast with these things and I'm very greatful of it (THANKS YOLA). On the matter of AL yah The cummunaty there is pretty bad even for me who trolls.

And on the topic of content I feel pl just does not see that pl is there main battle ship and that's why pl has been put on hiatus with caps and content (also I feel this is due to al not having much content as pl) Which is debatable but telling players just flat out
((Don't expect new content or a new cap on the horizon in pl)) is some bs. And we can all agree on that old or new.

[WhoIsThis]

I actually find it easy to help and teach lower level new players (55 and under) PVE skills.

When running with low level new players it is easy to say. Hey by the way do you know your bird combos? Did you know you can combo with my Mage? Ok let's try it!! Ppl actually get so excited when they do this and see the combos come up on the screen. Then they start to ask what other combos are there and what else can learn.

It is also very easy in maps to say ..,. Ok guys do u know how to kill this boss? And then wait for them to answer and explain before entering boss area.

I have run into issues with higher levels like bears saying taunt is useless and not needed but lower level are very accepting as long as you aren't insulting them as you do it.

It's interesting that you mention that. The issues are:

1. At endgame, (and it's always been like this), the willingness to learn is not there, save for beginners in endgame PvP (and only occassionally).

2. Twinking can be unpleasant at times.

3. If people don't know what to do, they've got to ask. If it's a matter of things like not knowing the orbs on Gurgox, well, asking would help for sure. If someone doesn't ask, well, it's expected that they know.

But the biggest issue I think is at endgame where people should have a clue how to play (except maybe at PvP).



1. Go to Tx
2. Go to sts
3. Kiss devs
4. Back home.

The truth is, even on dev teams, there's usually a lot of disagreement on what to do. I've worked with software engineers before. There's always a lot of debate going on behind the scenes.


I've started playing PL again, mainly PvP. I have to say, after coming from AL and returning... WOW, I forgot how much better the PL community is. Sure, there are trash talkers, but not at the level that AL has them.

So, in regards to the community, I think we are pretty on path with that. There may be some things like the yola site scammers, but if we come together as a community and warn everybody about them, they too won't have much to feed on.

In regards to content updates, I truly think it's the end of the line for PL. However, does that mean that there's nothing to do? No. There are 76 different levels. Within those 76 different levels, there are 15+ gaming communities. Why do I say 15+ gaming communities? Well, there's twinking. So, if we are going by every 5 levels, that means every 5 levels there's a whole other community & tactics to learn.

However, does AL have that? Truthfully, not really. While AL has some amazing PvP & some of the best FFA I have seen through all their games, the level of skill required to PvP in PL is far superior. So, there are some advantages to PL over AL.

So, do we really need a new campaign to fix things? I wouldn't say so. However, I have noticed that other MMOs will release new gear and items to obtain that mix up the content without increasing the level cap. Perhaps, developers can try that? More elite weapons would be cool! What about elite gear like armor, weapons, etc? That would keep players busy for a while and revive many people's interest.

Again, I don't think PL needs a new campaign, just needs new content like elite gear.

Regarding scammers, well, like any game, once a game reaches a certain level, you're going to get scammers no matter what. Similar things happen with Eve, WoW, LoL, Dota, and a lot more of them. Pretty much everything that you see in the PC is going to happen on the phone.

I haven't played much AL, so I fear that you may be right about that. I would like to hope otherwise though. Other MMOs do frequently release new gear, although it is often via a tier system like WoW.

Updates wise, I fear that you may be right. But as far as what to do? Well, reforming major guilds would be a step forward.

[Cheenivie]

Nice to see you decided to start playing again Parth, by the way in PvP nowadays I find it much easier to start FFAing then it was before, if you wanna FFA you have to organize it but many more players have been for FFA in the past few weeks.

[Trenton]

Nice to see you decided to start playing again Parth, by the way in PvP nowadays I find it much easier to start FFAing then it was before, if you wanna FFA you have to organize it but many more players have been for FFA in the past few weeks. Because they're finally realizing how damn boring that calling Go is

[The Sadness]

I've started playing PL again, mainly PvP. I have to say, after coming from AL and returning... WOW, I forgot how much better the PL community is. Sure, there are trash talkers, but not at the level that AL has them.

So, in regards to the community, I think we are pretty on path with that. There may be some things like the yola site scammers, but if we come together as a community and warn everybody about them, they too won't have much to feed on.

In regards to content updates, I truly think it's the end of the line for PL. However, does that mean that there's nothing to do? No. There are 76 different levels. Within those 76 different levels, there are 15+ gaming communities. Why do I say 15+ gaming communities? Well, there's twinking. So, if we are going by every 5 levels, that means every 5 levels there's a whole other community & tactics to learn.

However, does AL have that? Truthfully, not really. While AL has some amazing PvP & some of the best FFA I have seen through all their games, the level of skill required to PvP in PL is far superior. So, there are some advantages to PL over AL.

So, do we really need a new campaign to fix things? I wouldn't say so. However, I have noticed that other MMOs will release new gear and items to obtain that mix up the content without increasing the level cap. Perhaps, developers can try that? More elite weapons would be cool! What about elite gear like armor, weapons, etc? That would keep players busy for a while and revive many people's interest.

Again, I don't think PL needs a new campaign, just needs new content like elite gear.
I want to fight Zeus. <3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkiuAxP9vPM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOkiuAxP9vPM

[Zeus]

I want to fight Zeus. <3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkiuAxP9vPM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOkiuAxP9vPM

If you can find me in game, although I think at L76 it's mainly just whoever hits their HS and Crushing Blow first. I hate the fact that they nerfed buffs, but then they didn't nerf debuffs. What logic is that?? .-.

I mean, if a bear gets hit with a debuff now, they are so strong that essentially it renders him/her useless for 7-9 seconds.

[Everyone'sFavMage]

This is a huge thing especially endgame, I remember stepping into pvp and getting destroyed, thankfully several of my friends gave me tips and patiently taught me after I asked.
Now endgame you see a bear use rage beckon and stomp, unsure of what a bird's debuff does. When the bird is actually skilled enough to counter and pull off a fairly simple win the bear doesn't even say a disgruntled "gf" but rather "lol" or say something about luck. I really find this the most in bears, pallies, and warbirds. They act if their godlike dodge is actually based on their skill.
Heard from another bear that beckon stomp combo was "supposed to be overpowered" and that they were supposed to be most damage outputting class.
I realized this goes back to the pvp issues rather than just the community. I actually think the problems of the in game community springs from the lack of understanding for the game, and now with this pvp issues and the elixirs in pve, the lack of this need to understand it.
The game hardly promotes teamwork anymore.couldnt agree moar. I think a lot of the old players are quitting because Pvp is ruled by luck now, so what difference does it make if ur more skilled then the other person.


I've started playing PL again, mainly PvP. I have to say, after coming from AL and returning... WOW, I forgot how much better the PL community is. Sure, there are trash talkers, but not at the level that AL has them.

So, in regards to the community, I think we are pretty on path with that. There may be some things like the yola site scammers, but if we come together as a community and warn everybody about them, they too won't have much to feed on.

In regards to content updates, I truly think it's the end of the line for PL. However, does that mean that there's nothing to do? No. There are 76 different levels. Within those 76 different levels, there are 15+ gaming communities. Why do I say 15+ gaming communities? Well, there's twinking. So, if we are going by every 5 levels, that means every 5 levels there's a whole other community & tactics to learn.

However, does AL have that? Truthfully, not really. While AL has some amazing PvP & some of the best FFA I have seen through all their games, the level of skill required to PvP in PL is far superior. So, there are some advantages to PL over AL.

So, do we really need a new campaign to fix things? I wouldn't say so. However, I have noticed that other MMOs will release new gear and items to obtain that mix up the content without increasing the level cap. Perhaps, developers can try that? More elite weapons would be cool! What about elite gear like armor, weapons, etc? That would keep players busy for a while and revive many people's interest.

Again, I don't think PL needs a new campaign, just needs new content like elite gear. I like this idea frankly. We don't need a new campaign. We need new modes of play, new Pvp maps, new gear for all levels, stuff like that.


I want to fight Zeus. <3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkiuAxP9vPM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOkiuAxP9vPMwish I had a thanks bud.


If you can find me in game, although I think at L76 it's mainly just whoever hits their HS and Crushing Blow first. I hate the fact that they nerfed buffs, but then they didn't nerf debuffs. What logic is that?? .-.

I mean, if a bear gets hit with a debuff now, they are so strong that essentially it renders him/her useless for 7-9 seconds.
This is very true. Debuffs are really overpowered now. Especially hs and blind above 66.

[Trenton]

This is very true. Debuffs are really overpowered now. Especially hs and blind above 66. I know mages are fine just the way they are now, but why not make Weakness at L9 12m?

[Zeus]

I know mages are fine just the way they are now, but why not make Weakness at L9 12m?

You, sir, are hilarious. :)

[Caiahar]

I know mages are fine just the way they are now, but why not make Weakness at L9 12m?

Pallies would own me more than they do now D:

[Caiahar]

I know mages are fine just the way they are now, but why not make Weakness at L9 12m?

Pallies would own me more than they do now D:

[Trenton]

You, sir, are hilarious. :) Yessss I know they're op but its sorta weird that they'd make HS go from 8-12m and not weakness.. ._.

ty for compliment also gramma <3

[tHelonestud]

Weakness isn't even as much of a debuff is it?
Correct me if wrong, not much of a mage player.

[Trenton]

Weakness isn't even as much of a debuff is it?
Correct me if wrong, not much of a mage player. Pretty sure it's -60 hit%.. Lemme check.

EDIT: http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/12/nyhe4uda.jpg

Yep, also -60 dmg so I guess 8m is fair. ._.

[tHelonestud]

Pretty sure it's -60 hit%.. Lemme check.

EDIT: http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/12/nyhe4uda.jpg

Yep, also -60 dmg so I guess 8m is fair. ._.
Oh, like I said not sure
#themoreyouknow
Hellscream is -60 damage as well right?
Feel dumb, I am probably wrong on this too.

[Ks_Leon]

actually idk if this true or not but they nerf the debuff...lol

[Trenton]

Oh, like I said not sure
#themoreyouknow
Hellscream is -60 damage as well right?
Feel dumb, I am probably wrong on this too. Not sure either, might as well check ;)

[Trenton]

actually idk if this true or not but they nerf the debuff...lol They nerfed roots, crushing blow, and hamstring on foxes. Maybe a few more debuffs, not sure tho. But I know they didn't nerf weakness, hellscream, or blind shot

[The Sadness]

HS is 12m and has -60% hit & -60% damage.

[Trenton]

HS is 12m and has -60% hit & -60% damage. Don't do this to me I had this and now I don't feel imporant

43318

ha got a pic before u nub

[Zeus]

Yessss I know they're op but its sorta weird that they'd make HS go from 8-12m and not weakness.. ._.

ty for compliment also gramma <3

Trenton, ice is a 12meter debuff when ranked at L9. Lightning is also a darn good debuff. To make an elf's nightmare and weakness 12m would be insanity.

It's alright for bears, because they only have 2 12m skills to get in close. Before this, it used to be only one. IMO, the 12m increase was needed.

[Everyone'sFavMage]

IMHO hs should be 10 not 12. 12 is a bit much. 10 seems about right.

[WhoIsThis]

Don't do this to me I had this and now I don't feel imporant

43318

ha got a pic before u nub

Reducing the target's hit by 60% is pretty OP IMO. That means that unless their hit is well over 100%, they're not going to be able to hit much.

It looks like buffs and debuffs should have an upper limit of 6 points - in return, I say, they cannot be dodged.

[CrimsonTider]

Reducing the target's hit by 60% is pretty OP IMO. That means that unless their hit is well over 100%, they're not going to be able to hit much.

It looks like buffs and debuffs should have an upper limit of 6 points - in return, I say, they cannot be dodged.

Yep. Rhino's have -53 hit% after 2 HS's land. It's a beautiful thing

[tHelonestud]

HS is 12m and has -60% hit & -60% damage.
Definitely not 60% damage, that would reduce a birds 400 blast shot to 160 damage. It's just 60 damage points.

[OvigorothO]

If they released the sewers cap patch as a standalone title It would probably see more activity than the up to date version. It would certainly make me happy :) Just strap on some additional stuff such as updated UI functions, guilds, etc.

[dudetus]

This thread gave me a headache :(

[tHelonestud]

This thread gave me a headache :(
Poor ninja

[Extreme]

This thread gave me a headache :(

I don't think we asked, Uncle :b.

[WhoIsThis]

Definitely not 60% damage, that would reduce a birds 400 blast shot to 160 damage. It's just 60 damage points.

That's actually an interesting point - that damage does not scale as a percentage but an absolute value. This is problematic in that it will have a disproportionate effect on twinking, and a progressively smaller effect as you approach endgame.

[Uepauke]

What this game does well - grouping system. It's so easy to meet new players and form friendships.

What sucks: elixirs and how the newer maps seem to be designed around them. That level with the islands - every time I hop in, fully intending to give it a go and level up, I do one or two runs using the free daily elixir. Once that fades off, MAN, it. takes. ages. to. run. across. the. maps. That's when I get bored and log off.

What I used to love: the tightness of play around the time of Alien Oasis onwards through Sewers. Combos all the way ... Don't get that any more.

[angeldawn]

What this game does well - grouping system. It's so easy to meet new players and form friendships.

What sucks: elixirs and how the newer maps seem to be designed around them. That level with the islands - every time I hop in, fully intending to give it a go and level up, I do one or two runs using the free daily elixir. Once that fades off, MAN, it. takes. ages. to. run. across. the. maps. That's when I get bored and log off.

What I used to love: the tightness of play around the time of Alien Oasis onwards through Sewers. Combos all the way ... Don't get that any more.

UEP!!!!!

Omg I miss you!! U stalking PL forums? You must be bored lol. Tell everyone I miss them.

I stopped by LOTRO a little while ago and didn't see you guys. Fuzzy thought you might be playing something else. Been crazy busy here. Planning to stop in next week. Hope to see you guys soon :)

Mwah!! Love you!!

[tHelonestud]

What this game does well - grouping system. It's so easy to meet new players and form friendships.

What sucks: elixirs and how the newer maps seem to be designed around them. That level with the islands - every time I hop in, fully intending to give it a go and level up, I do one or two runs using the free daily elixir. Once that fades off, MAN, it. takes. ages. to. run. across. the. maps. That's when I get bored and log off.

What I used to love: the tightness of play around the time of Alien Oasis onwards through Sewers. Combos all the way ... Don't get that any more.
It is hard now for bears to gather mobs because the mobs dodge mainly fang and up you usually have 2 or 3 enemies dodge beckon, secondly, because with elixirs people don't even wait behind the bears, third, with the elixirs and the bears' already extremely powerful aoe combo the mob nearly dies being scattered across a room/corridor, lastly, the maps like humania especially, and blacksmoke, don't have the tight passages to make pulling easy. Many 76 don't even know what pull means in the context of mobs. The sewers revolved around this strategy though, even nuri's use it alot.

[Uepauke]

UEP!!!!!

Omg I miss you!! U stalking PL forums? You must be bored lol. Tell everyone I miss them.

I stopped by LOTRO a little while ago and didn't see you guys. Fuzzy thought you might be playing something else. Been crazy busy here. Planning to stop in next week. Hope to see you guys soon :)

Mwah!! Love you!!

Ha! A LIKELY STORY. Every time I'm in, no one's there.

I'm now down to playing my girl-dwarf-champ and that's saying lots. Yeah, I'm playing swtor - so's Ariskabar. Good fun but the f2p/premium model sucks so not going to stick around after going through with a few different characters. Just biding time to see what happens to mmo land after ESO comes, and also see what's happening with Helm's Deep.

Hope to see you soon tooo! Let's do some fun stuff :)

[angeldawn]

It is hard now for bears to gather mobs because the mobs dodge mainly fang and up you usually have 2 or 3 enemies dodge beckon, secondly, because with elixirs people don't even wait behind the bears, third, with the elixirs and the bears' already extremely powerful aoe combo the mob nearly dies being scattered across a room/corridor, lastly, the maps like humania especially, and blacksmoke, don't have the tight passages to make pulling easy. Many 76 don't even know what pull means in the context of mobs. The sewers revolved around this strategy though, even nuri's use it alot.

Fang was still easy for bears. Running crypt with my bear was so much fun!

Hum was prob was a little more difficult.

Bsm can have good pulls. But yes the dodge on mobs sucks!!

[angeldawn]

Ha! A LIKELY STORY. Every time I'm in, no one's there.

I'm now down to playing my girl-dwarf-champ and that's saying lots. Yeah, I'm playing swtor - so's Ariskabar. Good fun but the f2p/premium model sucks so not going to stick around after going through with a few different characters. Just biding time to see what happens to mmo land after ESO comes, and also see what's happening with Helm's Deep.

Hope to see you soon tooo! Let's do some fun stuff :)

It's all Fuzzys fault no one is on ;p (always blame the guys)

I can't believe you guys play SWTOR after all the crap you gave me!! Lol. I'm planning to preorder Helms Deep. Just been lazy

I'm excited for ESO!! Just so sad it won't be cross platforms. :-(

[Uepauke]

It's all Fuzzys fault no one is on ;p (always blame the guys)

I can't believe you guys play SWTOR after all the crap you gave me!! Lol. I'm planning to preorder Helms Deep. Just been lazy

I'm excited for ESO!! Just so sad it won't be cross platforms. :-(

Get that man off poker! Honestly, you'd think they're playing strip poker...

[The Sadness]

Definitely not 60% damage, that would reduce a birds 400 blast shot to 160 damage. It's just 60 damage points.
Oh look, Elyseon is still bored. Go read more of my posts and correct.

[Trenton]

Oh look, Elyseon is still bored. Go read more of my posts and correct. You think that's Ely?

[Elitephonix]

I just wanna say one thing. Us pl players are probably one of the best trolls in all mmo games.

[dudetus]

Oh look, Elyseon is still bored. Go read more of my posts and correct.

Stud? No, he's not ely. Ely is not studly enough to be thelonelystud.

[Justg]

I think this one has run it's course.

*click*