View Full Version : Fixing CTF: A PL Perspective
Hello,
As the title of the thread states, I am sure that many players that do CTF realize how broken CTF actually is. In AL, what is CTF?
AL CTF: CTF in this game has the following outcomes:
• 5v5 situations with nobody actually making the flag a goal.
• Using the spawn areas to 1v1
• Locking matches so opposing teammates may rack up flags for achievement points.
However, what is the actual definition of CTF? Well, it involves capturing the opponent's flag and bringing it safely back to your flag zone, effectively scoring. In the process, one will have to fight off the opposing team.
Now, to those interested in seeing what an actual CTF game constitutes of in PL, watch the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvjEwJQ0cBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvjEwJQ0cBs
P.S: Excuse the lag on the phone, it isn't my recording.
If you noticed in the video, team members WAIT until each team is even with players, and then actually play capture the flag. One has to get past the opposing team, get the flag, then get back to their own flag to score. Of course, your team supports you and offers back-up when needed.
So, how do we actually fix this?
• In PL, there were specific tournament & ladder leaders, myself included, that would have the ability to make tournaments and then get developer support for prizes. These prizes typically included platinum and special vanity items signifying the winners of a developer supported tournament. With enough support, I promise, I will regulate a tournament to the best of my abilities and try to get the same thing started in AL which PL regularly benefits from.
• It all starts with each and every person. So, the major guilds in AL, I would encourage you to convince your guild members to start actively forming CTF games to play! In PL, this CTF trend started with the top 2-3 PvP guilds constantly challenging each other. I think, that if we get the same thing started here, it would be great!
• Creating a smaller map with only 1 spawn location. Why? The multiple spawn locations completely break apart the ability to regroup without effective use of the mini-map. Doing this will help teammates regroup and defend/attack/strategize in order to win the game. (This one is for you, developers!)
In the meantime, judging by the comments and popularity this thread gets, I will use it as a measure wether or not to create an actual CTF tournament. Think about it... this could be the chance where guilds finally can compete against each other to see the who's the top dog in PvP!
P.S: Wouldn't it be cool if like in other ____ Legend title games, players would receive special rewards and platinum for winning? I'm pretty sure, like in PL, it helped to bring together the PvP community & rile up the need to get better! I'm sure many people would love to show off their cool new CTF banner & associated vanity set.
Argyros
10-16-2013, 07:57 PM
Agreed. I definetly can relate to actively starting guild ctf games.
Ebezaanec
10-16-2013, 08:06 PM
Hehe.. I can already tell which guilds will be constantly challenging each other ;)
Agreed. I definetly can relate to actively starting guild ctf games.
I forgot to mention that in PL, platinum rewards would be 500+ platinum for first place and halving for each place after that. I'm pretty sure that players would love platinum gifted like that. :p
Also, on top of the platinum, special tournament exclusive vanities would be given.
Taejo
10-16-2013, 08:26 PM
Is it possible to get tournaments running every two weeks? The more continuity, the more impact this will have on day-to-day CTF - which is my primary concern for the casual gamers. If there is only one tournament every month or two months, this idea would fix CTF temporarily in small quantities. Either way, I can see this bringing the community together, especially if the ladders/rules are moderated well.
I also agree with the issue of having two respawn areas. Never really understood the purpose of that other than to prevent spawn camping. Like Apollo said, it makes regrouping a tedious task.
You got my support on this!
Argyros
10-16-2013, 08:44 PM
Agreed. I definetly can relate to actively starting guild ctf games.
I forgot to mention that in PL, platinum rewards would be 500+ platinum for first place and halving for each place after that. I'm pretty sure that players would love platinum gifted like that. :p
Also, on top of the platinum, special tournament exclusive vanities would be given.
I know alot of players who hope to someday be good enough to compete for those vanities. The thing is, those tournament are very very rare nowadays. It's great that you want to hopefully create a new one.
I know alot of players who hope to someday be good enough to compete for those vanities. The thing is, those tournament are very very rare nowadays. It's great that you want to hopefully create a new one.
Arg, one thing... you realize this is AL discussion, right? Only reason why I'm saying that is because I rarely see you venture into the AL side of forums. :p
I do realize that developer support for PL tournaments is a little rare these days, but I doubt that it would be so rare in AL, considering the amount of people that STS has the opportunity to get interested in CTF with. Also, with new players wanting to get involved into CTF, they'll crave the gear the pros are wearing are perhaps starting popping open lockeds or save up to get it. :)
@Taejo
The only thing about it running every 2 weeks is that I doubt developers will want to continuously hand out platinum every 2 weeks. Unless, of course, I got a tournament fund running, but in AL, gold can be pretty hard to come by. :p
Taejo
10-16-2013, 08:59 PM
I wouldn't expect STS to hand out platinum that often. There could be different types of tournaments with respective prizes: gold, VIP elixirs, platinum, special vanity/banners (they would have to create) or maybe a new leaderboard for bragging rights. Plenty of room for creativity.
There's enough gold out there, it just depends on 1) how collaborative this community actually is and 2) who's willing to sacrifice their precious gold to have some fun.
I'm just saying that in order for tournaments to be a solution for those who want to play a real game of CTF, they would have to be often. I think teams would end up practicing on a day to day basis if the intervals were shorter than 1-2 months, directly impacting day to day PvP as a whole. Otherwise, there needs to be another solution to fix that issue.
I wouldn't expect STS to hand out platinum that often. There could be different types of tournaments with respective prizes: gold, VIP elixirs, platinum, special vanity/banners (they would have to create). Plenty of room for creativity.
There's enough gold out there, it just depends on 1) how collaborative this community actually is and 2) who's willing to sacrifice their precious gold to have some fun.
I'm just saying that in order for tournaments to be a solution for those who want to play a real game of CTF, they would have to be often. I think teams would end up practicing on a day to day basis if the intervals were shorter than 1-2 months, directly impacting day to day PvP as a whole. Otherwise, there needs to be another solution to fix that issue.
Ah, I see.
In that case, I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult for STG to create a vanity set including a banner strictly related to PvP and then give out pieces of the vanity set? That way, even those who won previous tournaments could work towards obtaining the full set.
iluvataris
10-16-2013, 09:28 PM
OMG worst time to be out of thanks.. I'll get you back.
This is awesome and I love the idea of 1 spawn zone.
OMG worst time to be out of thanks.. I'll get you back.
This is awesome and I love the idea of 1 spawn zone.
Thanks Ataris! :)
I really didn't understand why they put a multi-spawn zone... it just comes at the cost of player's gaming experience. Sure, there's going to be players that take advantage of a 1 spawn zone, but there's also going to be many players who prefer it more because it makes it that much easier to regroup.
Alhuntrazeck
10-16-2013, 09:57 PM
I remember in the beginning of AL PvP, how I used to run likeabaws style with epics and charge hooks users - and really CAPTURE THE FLAG. Me and a friend used to guard the flag base, whenever we played together - the opposite team would have to get to us first!
Now CTF is essentially TDM...id love if CTF became CTF once more!
I'm supporting you on this idea, Apollo. My guild seems to have something cooking up about a real CTF match...if more guilds took up this idea it would be great!
Tourneys seem fun too. Id donate a lot for a legendary set tourney!
Its rare to see an actual capture the flag, mostly i see is Came to Fight/Flag.
Its rare to see an actual capture the flag, mostly i see is Came to Fight/Flag.
Haha, yes, but I'm sure players would take interest if there was rewards involved. :)
iluvataris
10-17-2013, 11:03 AM
Haha, yes, but I'm sure players would take interest if there was rewards involved. :)
that and also get some good ol competition going again, seems like most everyone's on the idea of join the team with the most players overwhelm the enemy : /
that and also get some good ol competition going again, seems like most everyone's on the idea of join the team with the most players overwhelm the enemy : /
I wonder who got that idea set into place. .-.
iluvataris
10-17-2013, 11:16 AM
I don't know.. Maybe alphawolf and maneater?
Seems like it got really bad beginning of season 4
Alrisaia
10-17-2013, 11:30 AM
Thanks for this guys. I might actually play CTF if there were some sort of structure to it. Right now the way it is all I do is farm deaths :)
Deadroth
10-17-2013, 12:12 PM
Yes. i agree. PVP nowdays is combat without combat. If You aren't veery weeelll geared You will only gain kills to those better geared than You, if someone thinks otherway, i will Send him to the thread with glavie proc (there, Falmear added a comic, it says everything). If it would be really combat like i saw on that film, it could be neat :) Baah, veery neat! :) It would bring me to play more in pvp.
TuMadreee
10-17-2013, 02:09 PM
Count Judgement in!
If we have a tournament, will it be several days long or all matches done in one day?
Also, no Arcane/Too much of one class could make the matches more interesting and based on skill. Just some things to keep in mind.
Thanks for the post Apollo. Hopefully there will be enough guilds willing to participate and make ctf what it should be. :-)
Speedofsound
10-17-2013, 02:58 PM
I love this idea. All i do now is play tdm because ctf is full of 1v1 or team fights, not actually ctf. Getting enough guilds to encourage players to play ctf for what it really is would really help pvp. I also love the idea of only one spawn room. It would make regrouping and getting ready to go for the flag easier.
Drearivev
10-17-2013, 04:51 PM
I remember in the beginning of AL PvP, how I used to run likeabaws style with epics and charge hooks users - and really CAPTURE THE FLAG. Me and a friend used to guard the flag base, whenever we played together - the opposite team would have to get to us first!
Now CTF is essentially TDM...id love if CTF became CTF once more!
I'm supporting you on this idea, Apollo. My guild seems to have something cooking up about a real CTF match...if more guilds took up this idea it would be great!
Tourneys seem fun too. Id donate a lot for a legendary set tourney!
That would be awesome. I expect other tourneys (like the one Delph hosted a few months ago) to mostly be filled up with Mythic users. Something like that a legendary set only would help me :D
Also, this idea is great. Would love some tourneys in this game, at least more often.
Roberto077
10-17-2013, 05:22 PM
I thought this was in PLs PvP section....
Update: Samhayne responded to my PM and stated he will try to throw together an exclusive tournament banner along with platinum rewards.
As for the rules, expect a tournament thread some time this week.
Also, for a heads up...this tournament will require coordination as it will run through several days. The last thing I want is for a tournament like this to drag on for months.
So, as a reminder, choose your teammates wisely as if everybody is not able to make it on the schedule time of fighting the opposing team, they will be disqualified without repeal.
Lastly, I'm thinking of imposing a limit on how many arcane/mythic players a team can have. I'm think 2-3 mythic/arcane players per team with mythic weapons being excluded as being counted as a mythic player, as specific classes can be considered useless without a mythic weapon.
P.S: A class limitation of having no more than 2 of the same class in a team will also be implemented.
Please, if there is anything you do not agree with, state reasons why respectfully & I will take them under consideration.
Taejo
10-17-2013, 06:14 PM
Lastly, I'm thinking of imposing a limit on how many arcane/mythic players a team can have. I'm think 2-3 mythic/arcane players per team with mythic weapons being excluded as being counted as a mythic player, as specific classes can be considered useless without a mythic weapon.
I think for Season 5, mythics are abundant enough to be considered "fair" in a tournament. Arcanes, however, are not - especially Samael (tbh he completely ruins the fun of Player versus Player). My vote is do not allow arcane weapons or pets at all.
Thanks for setting this up. Let me know if you need a hand with anything. Sounds like it will be fun!
EDIT: Side thought - might be interesting to have a special circumstance such as every team must use Deary or George. Just an example, something along those lines. Having a twist that helps balance out teams is always a good thing in tournaments, I think.
I think for Season 5, mythics are abundant enough to be considered "fair" in a tournament. Arcanes, however, are not - especially Samael (tbh he completely ruins the fun of Player versus Player). My vote is do not allow arcane weapons or pets at all.
Thanks for setting this up. Let me know if you need a hand with anything. Sounds like it will be fun!
EDIT: Side thought - might be interesting to have a special circumstance such as every team must use Deary or George. Just an example, something along those lines. Having a twist that helps balance out teams is always a good thing in tournaments, I think.
True, the only thing I'm worried about is teams just going with fully geared players which is why I thought of implementing the rule. If that happened, there simply wouldn't be enough players to have a decent size bracket.
Taejo
10-17-2013, 06:26 PM
True, the only thing I'm worried about is teams just going with fully geared players which is why I thought of implementing the rule. If that happened, there simply wouldn't be enough players to have a decent size bracket.
I agree with what you're saying. The problem is gear will be difficult to verify with vanities and loadouts being used. Weapons can be easily verified, however. You will definitely need referees if you choose to limit gear somehow.
I agree with what you're saying. The problem is gear will be difficult to verify with vanities and loadouts being used. Weapons can be easily verified, however. You will definitely need referees if you choose to limit gear somehow.
No vanities will be allowed.
Also, I think I already have a system in place to prevent any of that going on. If players still want to figure out ways to cheat, then there simply wouldn't be prizes or any further incentives for more tournaments.
Argyros
10-17-2013, 06:30 PM
I play both games, Al and Pl. I'm on mobile, where I see threads from both forums. I always view them, but I never bother to actually post on them. Partially because I don't do endgame in Al, and never do anything but pvp. I have just enough to have a good twink. I do think that vanities maybe banners, would be really motivational for pvp guild wars ect.
Oh sorry for not clarifying, but the first two sentences I was talking about Pl, the last one was about Al. I really had bad wording. >.<
wowdah
10-17-2013, 07:27 PM
Good.
Here's a teaser of tournament rules!
Tournament Rules:
• A team leader may have no more than 2 of the same class on his team.
• Before starting the match, each team must regroup into ONE spawn that is directly across from where the other team's spawn location is.
• Before starting the match, one player of each team must go near the enemy's spawn to insure that no team member is attempting to get a head start. (Yes, these team members that go explore are technically the only players that are allowed a head start)
• No vanities may be warn.
• No trash talking during the entire time the tournament is taking place may occur. If any team player is found to be trash talking or behaving non-sportsmanlike, they will be disqualified and the team will not be allowed to sub in another player.
• A team is allowed to have 1 sub, but that sub may not qualify to play if there is 2 of the same class active in the team.
• Opposing teams facing each other MUST agree on a time & date to play. This must be done within 2 days of knowing who your opposing team is.
• If a team does not meet on the time & date specified, they will be disqualified. (Under special circumstances, I will allow ONE re-trial to successfully meet up). If this means that team players have to stay up at a time inconvenient to them, so be it. There are sacrifices one must make for developer sponsored tournaments.
• A screenshot of an agreeing time and date for each match-up must be posted AND PM'd to Apollo
• If a team member goes AFK, it is up to the other team to decide wether to wait or not. However, sportsmanship and common courtesy will be appreciated.
• Any drama/situations/disagreements once the tournament is in session must be PM'd to me. If any posts are made on the tournament thread, it will result in that player dropping out of the tournament.
• There may be no more than 2 stun pets on one team. This tournament will require variation.
• Arcane pets will be allowed, but no more than 2 arcane pets will be allowed on the team.
• Arcane weapons will be allowed.
• Mythic items will be allowed.
• Only 1 arcane rarity item is allowed to be equipped. Meaning, if one has a Maul of Ollerus and Samael, they will have to choose which one to use.
• Every team must have at least ONE non-mythic player.
• Spawning or blocking off an opposing team's entrance will result in the entire team's automatic disqualification.
• ANY RULES BROKEN MUST BE PROVEN WITH EVIDENCE OR THEY WILL BE CONSIDERED NULL.
Note: These rules are subject to change at any time, but let me know how these sounds. Please, constructive criticism only! If there is any add-ons, let me know.
If anyone would like me to add any rules as well, please suggest them & I will do so.
Please post on this thread if you're interested in joining the tournament: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=131
With that being said, I will be participating in this tournament. However, there is a situation which involves me requires judgement, I would request that Taejo be the co-tournament host if an event like that occurs.