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smoae
11-10-2010, 07:02 PM
Ok, I got two suggestions that I think would greatly improve the next content. If you think that there’s not enough variety, not enough replayability, or not enough rarity, then read on!

(Throughout this whole thread I’m going to use a warrior as my examples because I am one, but all of this applies to archers and mages too)

Right now, there are really only 5 items that a bear has to collect in order to get the best gear. Power armor, overlord helmet, screaming skull shield, gurgox hammer, and vibra battlesword. Almost all of the other items for ao3 are hardly used at all, except by people don't have the best gear(which is now not a whole lot of people). All the other 15 or so pinks for ao3 are hardly used at all by the best players. When you also take into account all the greens and purples created (gotta be 30 at least), thats about 45 items that aren’t being used by any of the top players. Multiply that by 3 because of archers and mages and that’s 135 items that are rarely used. Seems like a lot of wasted effort. Greens and purples are sometimes used by levels 45-49, but still the 5 pinks mentioned earlier are by far the most used.

With that being said, my solution is to make more pinks, and less greens and purples, and also to have the pinks more balanced.

In ao3, I’m guessing at least 70% of the new items are greens or purples and about 30% are pinks. Why not reverse that? Think about it, greens and purples are used for maybe a week or so, until the player levels up and gets the best gear. Pinks are used until new items come out, so they are used a lot longer. If there were 70% pinks and 30% greens and purples, players would have more of a variety of items to choose from, and more items desired. That means that they would have to farm more in order to get all the best items. This would increase replayability by a lot. (If 70-30 is too drastic of an increase, maybe 50-50 would be better.)

The other thing is to make the pinks more balanced. For all the best ao3 items (and many other items too), every item has the same bonus stats. There are 14 stats in the game, and no offense, but it’s just stupid to only change 2 or 3 of those for the different items (I’m referring to rift/void/cosmos). All that’s changing is the damage, dps, and armor. So, naturally, which ever item has the highest dps or armor is going to be the best. if item stats were more varied, like maybe have one weapon have more armor and dodge, one could have more health and h/s, one could have more hit and crit, one could have more damage, etc, then that would make things MUCH more varied rather then just having 4 or 5 best items to collect. This would make players want to get more items rather than just a few, and would once again raise replayability and variety. I know if that for the next content, there were 20 weapons that came out, all being very balanced and no one was a lot better than another, I would want to collect them all to compare them. In addition, the item’s rarites would not be too far apart. Maybe there would be slightly (very slightly) better weapons that are a little more rare, but they are all around the same rarity and performance. Priced would still be varied though, because for example, a lot more people farm gurgox or mynas than they do keeper, so the items that dropped from the keeper would be more rare. It would also raise prices a bit, and a lot of people have been complaining about prices being too low.

Summary:
Create more pinks, less greens and purples. This will make people want to farm more and it will increase replayability.
Get rid of the set bonus stats for each item type, make every item different by lots of stats, not just 2 or 3. This will increase variety in items and not have one superior item that is obviously better than the rest

Feedback?

Rusalio
11-10-2010, 07:28 PM
TOTALLY makes, however I think this is really coming from leveled user perspective.

Problem I see is that it doesn't balance out right (at least to me). Greens and purps generate low income in liquidation or small sells, aka increases the bottom line bit by bit. Creating more pinks would remove the desire to pursue pinks because it would be so common. PINKS generate a desired target which is good for the game. You’re simply trading one for the other. Purps and greens offer/add more uniqueness to player’s personal preferences. The more bells and whistles offered keeps it interesting. Lets face it, once you've leveled using whatever means of purps, greens and pink, not much to do other than to run groups, respec and the sorts. To the bonus, IDC either way.

Nerfing the rush, mixed on that...

Snakespeare
11-10-2010, 07:29 PM
Good explanation of the problem.

My solution is to modify the existing pinks, the ones people call "crap" so that they are not crappy. What do people need? m/s and h/s! Well, add some of that to the "crap" pinks. And what is really wrong with them? Why, they have less armor, for one thing.

armor
Whipcord, 60
Raptorhide, 65
Wraith, 73 !!!

helm
Whipcord, 9
Raptorhide, 12
Wraith, 18 !!!

wings
trickster, 20
force, 28

+archer set bonus is +3

total difference 32 points of armor !!! AND 15 m/s !!!

What were they thinking? Whose idea was this? What use does this "crap" armor have at all? None! Absolutely none. We have to use level 45 Thoth and Isis armor just to keep from wasting our gp on potions.

What they need to do is fix this terrible stuff, or better STOP DROPPING IT. I'd rather have a purple. The only difference between the purples and those pinks of nearly identical names is 1 hit percentage! It's ludicrous.

So, either they should stop dropping crappy pinks and get the good stuff out there in the hands of the players, or they should make the crappy pinks better.

These shouldn't even BE pink in color, they are so crappy. Someone was confused when they made them.

TwinkTastical
11-10-2010, 07:29 PM
Wed still want top tiers....

smoae
11-10-2010, 08:16 PM
Good explanation of the problem.

My solution is to modify the existing pinks, the ones people call "crap" so that they are not crappy. What do people need? m/s and h/s! Well, add some of that to the "crap" pinks. And what is really wrong with them? Why, they have less armor, for one thing.

armor
Whipcord, 60
Raptorhide, 65
Wraith, 73 !!!

helm
Whipcord, 9
Raptorhide, 12
Wraith, 18 !!!

wings
trickster, 20
force, 28

+archer set bonus is +3

total difference 32 points of armor !!! AND 15 m/s !!!

What were they thinking? Whose idea was this? What use does this "crap" armor have at all? None! Absolutely none. We have to use level 45 Thoth and Isis armor just to keep from wasting our gp on potions.

What they need to do is fix this terrible stuff, or better STOP DROPPING IT. I'd rather have a purple. The only difference between the purples and those pinks of nearly identical names is 1 hit percentage! It's ludicrous.

So, either they should stop dropping crappy pinks and get the good stuff out there in the hands of the players, or they should make the crappy pinks better.

These shouldn't even BE pink in color, they are so crappy. Someone was confused when they made them.
yep i agree whats the point of making items if they are barely gonna get used, if used at all? what they need to do is make all the pinks very balanced so that people have to deicde between 15 different weapons and 10 sets of armor, rather than just getting the one that is obviously better than the rest.

Lesrider
11-10-2010, 08:32 PM
Yes, ao2 had a balanced item system, because people could choose to wear the equipment thay gave them the stats they needed. It's why many lgl 50 players (mainly str build) are still using some lvl 45 items.

The warriors have several different ao3 weapons, but people are still using shock lances because they dommore damage. That is messed up. And the lack of ms; of course, for warriors.

Higher level items should offer more than the lower levels, not vice versa.

Fyrce
11-10-2010, 08:52 PM
I would like to see where there are stats on the "crap" pinks that would make some people choose to wear some of them. Someone mentioned m/s for warriors for example. Maybe more crit/dodge for birds. Not sure what for mages, but there are some green vs purp vs "crap" pinks like there where you get to decide which to wear depending on if you like dodge, hit or crit.

dirtball
11-10-2010, 09:44 PM
I am currently using a lvl 41 warrior, have lvl 49 mage and 46 bird. I now equip with 3 croc pieces for the M/S regen, along with 16 INT I get 4 M/S regen. Seems to be a pretty good amount. I rarely run out of mana during a fight and if I do against a boss I spam a few pots, nothing like the birds and mages have to spam all game. The lvl 45 Mynas helm of Thoth gives 6M/S by itself. Can't see needing too many more items that give bears more than say 10 M/S at most or game would be completely unbalanced with bears never running out of mana. I do agree that some pinks are worthless, I pray that a new player will buy them simply because they don't know any better. Conquerer's devil pithfork comes to mind. Maybe new equipment that decreases downtime between using ironblood or increases effect of hellscream. You could have same stat weps with different skill effects so we can choose which one to use.

Lesrider
11-10-2010, 10:03 PM
I think they just need to release more ao3 items, period.
If you lookat ao1-2 Vs ao3, there were so many more types of items. Now the common links only come in two diff choices for helm/armor, and all the weapons (fate, destiny, fortune) have similar stats. There just aren't enough ao3 items out there. So the common one's are worth mothing because the same ones drop all the time -- no variety. I'm tired of getting the havoc cowl of fate -- I have 5 at the moment, and that's after selling a few dirt cheap.

smoae
11-10-2010, 10:41 PM
I think a few of you are missing the point...
It's not that the gear doesn't have enough m/s or damage or whatever, it's that it doesn't have enough variety. Seriously there are 14 stats in the game and only 2 of them get changed thoughout the different items? Thats ridiculous. ALL the stats should be changed, not just damage and armor.

dirtball
11-11-2010, 12:17 AM
In the end I'd really rather see new content rather than spending time on new weapons. People will always settle on one best weapon and farm or buy that one anyway.

smoae
11-11-2010, 08:12 AM
In the end I'd really rather see new content rather than spending time on new weapons. People will always settle on one best weapon and farm or buy that one anyway.
Well the new items would come with the new content.

Lesrider
11-11-2010, 08:28 AM
Just an example of how ao2 items worked as a whole better than ao2. Everyone agrees that shock lances are the best ao2 str weapons. Ok, maybe Zuraz is a bit more desirable than the other two. But people can still be very happy with any of the lances. Hell, I used a Zuraz plasma sword till I was 50 and didn't start farming a lance till later. The point is, there were more items that were useful. There was the Khopesh as well. You didn't HAVE to have a lance because there were other weapons that were sufficient. The lance was just better. But with ao3, none of the items besides rift/void/cosmos are even worth having. And if you look at the shop now, they're going for next to nothing. I may start liquidating mine soon, as I don't see any way to sell them now that the shop is out.

Ellyidol
11-11-2010, 08:31 AM
Agree with the OP that it adds more replayability. People would be looking for other sets rather than stick to the usual void/cosmos/rift.

Just another suggestion though (which I've been trying to put out there and which others have as well) to increase replayability, without even having to edit or add more pinks, just add an upgrading system.

Get rid of excess pinks by allowing you to upgrade them. 2 hammers successfully upgraded = +1 Hammer. If it fails, both break, you'd want to find/buy more hammers. This can go up to +10 to be standard.

+1-+10 stats shouldn't even be that complex, first you'd want to add some sort of glow on milestone upgrades, 3-5-8-10 maybe? For stats you can just add them on milestone levels too.

This way, past, exisiting, and future content wouldn't be used to as quick. Since twinks would probably aim for +10 twink gear, +10 ao3 gear, and +10 whatever content in the future.

Back on topic, I almost used a Whipcord (not sure on name) set on my bird, since I noticed it added more damage and crit(?) than void. Until I equipped the void set and the bonus offset the additional stats from the whipcord set -.-

Ellyidol
11-12-2010, 03:40 AM
Hi all.

I've added this thread to the Upgrading thread : http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?12385-Revive-Consolidated-Upgrading-Suggestion

Hopefully it supports your ideas and would have a better result. Please check and decide if you like the changes suggested :)

smoae
11-12-2010, 07:04 PM
Added a few more points to my thread, still hoping some more people will read.

And Ellyidol, I have always been up for sort of upgrading system, and that's sounds great :)
I would like to see both of these implemented, so we could have lots base items with a variety of stats, and create even more depth by upgrading them.