Is there any reason NOT to upgrade your passive skills for PVE?

[noneo]

I work in a strictly PVE environment and with only 4 skill slots, why would you increase any more of your skills besides passive once you have each of those 4 maxed?

I suppose if you have a mob mapping and a boss mapping it would make sense, but other than that I really see no point for someone who doesn't play PVP.

At level 36, you get 35 points to distribute, which means maxing 7 skills total - 4 main skills to fill your map and you can add in a full 3 other passive skills if necessary. I am just looking for the most effective way to spend my skill points so that I won't be wasting points sitting there waiting for the boss.

It seems like Fireball (with the knock-down upgrade), Gale Force (with the AOE upgrade), Lightning (with the 250% crit, and AOE on death upgrade) are all no brainers. Then for the remaining slot, Lifegiver and Time Shift is a toss up.



On one hand Lifegiver allows runners to spend less money on pots, and helps out your party if they don't use pots frequently. However, you loose a damage inducing slot - and for me who typically leads parties at the front line I need to kill those suckers ASAP.
On the other hand, Time Shift can offer both damage and snaring, but the cooldown is 10 seconds and you sacrifice healing.


Let's hear some input!

[keikali]

Take a read at this: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?98946-Level-by-Level-Skill-Guide

It's pretty much your basic cookie cutter build for a PvE Mage. My build is based off of that with a minor tweak recently. Note that the good thing about the build is that it is not gear dependent.

[Frekken]

Hey I would suggest to add some "durable" skills. In pvp most used is shield. But for pve I think heal is a most due to the squishiness of smurfs
Also you run most elite or normal maps?
Each have a different running techniques

Also remember pasive are there all time. No mana needed so there's that

[Robhawk]

Hey I would suggest to add some "durable" skills. In pvp most used is shield. But for pve I think heal is a most due to the squishiness of smurfs
Also you run most elite or normal maps?
Each have a different running techniques

Also remember pasive are there all time. No mana needed so there's that

Nobody needs lifegiver for PvE everybody can buy pots and manage this on his/her own! Lifegiver is just a must for PvP!

[noneo]

Hey I would suggest to add some "durable" skills. In pvp most used is shield. But for pve I think heal is a most due to the squishiness of smurfs
Also you run most elite or normal maps?
Each have a different running techniques

Also remember pasive are there all time. No mana needed so there's that

I am only level 15 at the moment and am pretty new to the game (started on friday), and haven't even seen what an elite map is.

As far as normal ones go; I can solo most campaigns (aside from that level4 dungeon.) and am not afraid to use pots. I ran a test soloing runs with four skills and no passive and it seemed very effective:

Fireball, lightning, life giver, gale force.

Literally the only time I would use life is between mobs. I just couldn't bring myself to waste time in a fight with a selfish use of my skills that won't really benefit my team. I would rather just go powered up fireball to stop them in their tracks, powered up gale force to damage and stun the already frozen mobs (it seems like If you just gale force right away the mobs scatter like nuns at a rock concert, but if you use fireball to stun them first, gale won't launch them away).

Also I can't justify using the good chunk of mana needed to cast the spell especially when I am spamming my other three skills.

So I think I have made up my mind to go on my quest sans any healing skills.

My goal is to be a magical powerhouse. I have every point in INT right now to boost my mana and bonus damage, and will probably throw in some DEX to up my damage and DPS and CRIT more than INT can. The way I see it is if I can kill these monsters before they can land a finger/claw on me, then what's the point of health pots, healing skills, and armor?

Just with my limited skill in this game, I have found that using my method jist described, most low to mid level mobs will die before I even hit my regular casting. And with a party of a good tank and rogue we can kill a group of ten without anyone losing a hit point.

And keep in mind this is all just with various green gear that I have looted on my travels - no pinks or anything crazy.

[noneo]

Take a read at this: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?98946-Level-by-Level-Skill-Guide

It's pretty much your basic cookie cutter build for a PvE Mage. My build is based off of that with a minor tweak recently. Note that the good thing about the build is that it is not gear dependent.

Thanks for the advice. However I am not really a 'cookie-cutter' kind'a guy. I am in process of building a simulation that allows my to simulate running maps at extremely high speeds so I can test out the 'real world' and see which attribute points are most effective, which skills, how many pots I am estimated to use, and give an estimate on time to clear and survivability. All of this will include actual distributions of data from sample sets to give the most realistic results. Will keep ya'll posted.

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

Check out this thread:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?118214-Why-not-seven-skills

[Sorcerie]

I am only level 15 at the moment and am pretty new to the game (started on friday), and haven't even seen what an elite map is.

As far as normal ones go; I can solo most campaigns (aside from that level4 dungeon.) and am not afraid to use pots. I ran a test soloing runs with four skills and no passive and it seemed very effective:

Fireball, lightning, life giver, gale force.

Literally the only time I would use life is between mobs. I just couldn't bring myself to waste time in a fight with a selfish use of my skills that won't really benefit my team. I would rather just go powered up fireball to stop them in their tracks, powered up gale force to damage and stun the already frozen mobs (it seems like If you just gale force right away the mobs scatter like nuns at a rock concert, but if you use fireball to stun them first, gale won't launch them away).

Also I can't justify using the good chunk of mana needed to cast the spell especially when I am spamming my other three skills.

So I think I have made up my mind to go on my quest sans any healing skills.

My goal is to be a magical powerhouse. I have every point in INT right now to boost my mana and bonus damage, and will probably throw in some DEX to up my damage and DPS and CRIT more than INT can. The way I see it is if I can kill these monsters before they can land a finger/claw on me, then what's the point of health pots, healing skills, and armor?

Just with my limited skill in this game, I have found that using my method jist described, most low to mid level mobs will die before I even hit my regular casting. And with a party of a good tank and rogue we can kill a group of ten without anyone losing a hit point.

And keep in mind this is all just with various green gear that I have looted on my travels - no pinks or anything crazy.By the time you hit lvl 31-35 I guarantee that you will have to respec your toon. Especially if you plan on running elite maps which have all the best loot.

Last night I spent plat and respec'd for the first time since I started this game. I was running with Ice 4/5, Fire 4/5, Time 4/5 and Heal 2/5 with the rest in passive skills. But after having run elite for a few weeks I noticed that this build, while good for some pretty decent crowd control, is not optimal for running elite maps which pretty much demands having lightning for bosses and shield in your build to be of any real use to a party as most mobs and bosses can kill you nigh instantly without it.

And if you plan on running an all attack build you better stock up on pots and gold cause you're gonna be chugging them every couple seconds. It's truly difficult to run on an all attack build, trust me I tried during the last free respec weeked and i was spending serious gold on pots to stay alive and active.

[kamikazees]

It seems like Fireball (with the knock-down upgrade), Gale Force (with the AOE upgrade), Lightning (with the 250% crit, and AOE on death upgrade) are all no brainers. Then for the remaining slot, Lifegiver and Time Shift is a toss up.

I run with 4 skills currently, but am considering trying more skills during the respec weekend coming up. I can't comment about that, but I disagree on your "no brainer" list.

Part of the reason you like lightning and gale over heal and timeshift is because you are lvl 15. At those levels, it is okay to one shot single monsters, or scatter monsters around. I also thought the cooldown on timeshift was too high.

Then I got to Kraken Isles, and Nordr, and Shuyal, where tons of monsters actually started trying to kill me. I went insane trying to kill monsters one by one with lightning after scattering them all over the place with gale. It seems I spent more time running (with Gale speed incrase yay! :p ) than actually fighting.

Then I switched to time clock. I (or a tank) could gather the mobs in one place, drop a fully upgraded clock on them, and blast them from a safe distance. I now have almost 32k kills with just 250 deaths.

I do think heal loses its value at higher levels though. Especially in elites, all the damage is spike damage. There's hardly enough time to worry about getting into a good spot to cast (or charge) heal when you will be dead in 1 more hit if you wait...

[noneo]

Check out this thread:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?118214-Why-not-seven-skills

Sorry, but that is not for me. I only have 5 skills now with points and don'e even use the fifth. I am all about optimization. The faster I can run, the less I am toggling menus, the more practice I get with each skill, the better I become. Now maybe my view will change once I get to Elite runs, but for now 4 skills with as much AOE as possible works great for me.

[noneo]

I run with 4 skills currently, but am considering trying more skills during the respec weekend coming up. I can't comment about that, but I disagree on your "no brainer" list.

Part of the reason you like lightning and gale over heal and timeshift is because you are lvl 15. At those levels, it is okay to one shot single monsters, or scatter monsters around. I also thought the cooldown on timeshift was too high.

Then I got to Kraken Isles, and Nordr, and Shuyal, where tons of monsters actually started trying to kill me. I went insane trying to kill monsters one by one with lightning after scattering them all over the place with gale. It seems I spent more time running (with Gale speed incrase yay! :p ) than actually fighting.

Then I switched to time clock. I (or a tank) could gather the mobs in one place, drop a fully upgraded clock on them, and blast them from a safe distance. I now have almost 32k kills with just 250 deaths.

I do think heal loses its value at higher levels though. Especially in elites, all the damage is spike damage. There's hardly enough time to worry about getting into a good spot to cast (or charge) heal when you will be dead in 1 more hit if you wait...

Perhaps it was a bit rash to say 'no brainer'. Especially as there is no 'perfect' build, just ones that work the best for each person.

Lightning I rarely use during mobs to be honest. Upon arriving at a group I charge up my fireball, cast that which will burn the mobs in place, then I will charge Gale Force and cast which will freeze them even longer without scattering them around. By the time they get back up, my charged fireball is ready again and that usually takes them all out. I don't even typically click my standard casting (as I have pretty weak weaponry at the moment).

Typically I will use lightning when fighting a mini-boss or boss.

I am fully aware I will blow through pots with a damage pure, but that is my style :). I am more of a fast paced gambler than a mage who shoots from a far.

The time clock skill is intriguing to me and will dally with that during a free respec event. What is the cooldown time on it?

[kamikazees]

The time clock skill is intriguing to me and will dally with that during a free respec event. What is the cooldown time on it?

Time clock renders most melee enemies harmless. With the "Freeze Time" upgrade, they simply hold still and wait to die. The clock itself lasts almost as long as the coodown (1 or 2 seconds less). With Fire and Time, you can AOE stun lock enemies. The only ones who can hit you are the ranged ones.

That said, it's not the best boss skill. Bosses run all over the place. There are also a few enemies unaffected by it (the hulking melee dudes in Dead City and bigger hulking dudes in later levels of Shuyal, for example). Ranged enemies can also still shoot you if you are in range.

I've been thinking of giving Gale another go, maybe instead of Fireball. It seems that most warriors and rogues now run with skyward smash and shadow pierce. They zip all over the screen and make me jealous.

It's just so annoying when a mage runs into the middle of my clock and blasts the mobs out of it. Really, Gale is the opposite of Time Clock. It makes everyone move a lot more, while Time Clock makes everyone stop.

[noneo]

So, the ranged mobs can still hit you even if trapped in the time bubble?

If the mobs are trapped in the bubble, and I am standing outside of it, will Gale Force push them out?

I agree that when Gale is used with reckless abandon the mobs don't end up pretty. BUt when used properly and in the correct order it really can be an effective way of completely paralysing mobs until death. I will be excited for a respec event to try out some new builds :)

[Sorcerie]

Yes, ranged mobs can take you out really quickly even if they're trapped in the time sphere, which is why I recommend using ice or fire to freeze/stun as many ranged mobs as you can and then dropping the clock and getting some distance before attacking again.

And if you drop a Clock and use Gale they will be pushed out even if you charged your clock to pin them.

It's best that you use gale directly after a fireball when they're stunned for maximum damage and no scattering.

[noneo]

Yes, ranged mobs can take you out really quickly even if they're trapped in the time sphere, which is why I recommend using ice or fire to freeze/stun as many ranged mobs as you can and then dropping the clock and getting some distance before attacking again.

And if you drop a Clock and use Gale they will be pushed out even if you charged your clock to pin them.

It's best that you use gale directly after a fireball when they're stunned for maximum damage and no scattering.

Yeah I like that method.

1. Charged fireball
2. Charged Gale
3. Charged Time
4. Repeat

Time does seem pretty effective though especially with the DOT upgrade and the explosion afterward.

The only problem I have about 'attacking from a distance' is you can't really damage all the mobs, usually it's just a few in the front of the pack when in the time freeze. Which really makes even more sense to stun then time so you can stay close enough to hit everyone when they are down.

[Sorcerie]

Yeah I like that method.

1. Charged fireball
2. Charged Gale
3. Charged Time
4. Repeat

Time does seem pretty effective though especially with the DOT upgrade and the explosion afterward.

The only problem I have about 'attacking from a distance' is you can't really damage all the mobs, usually it's just a few in the front of the pack when in the time freeze. Which really makes even more sense to stun then time so you can stay close enough to hit everyone when they are down.Yea that works really well to keep on the pressure of mobs, but you're sacrificing serious amounts of damage since the cooldown times on the skills you're using in your build are a bit long. After hitting upper levels you'll start to see how important it is to have a skill like ice or lightning which have the shortest cooldown.

I just prefer ice because of the aoe freezing and slow component when charged, it can be a serious life saver in a pinch.

Lightning isn't as effective with crowed control because it's meant for a single target, not to mention the discharge skill in the tree is pretty much worthless at elite levels since it only activates upon your enemies death which can be difficult to predict in huge mobs. There's also the problem of hitting your intended target when multiple enemies are on you, it seems like lightning changes targets very wildly if you're not right on top of the one you wanna hit. So it's mostly a boss skill.

I really wish that the discharge skill in the tree would activate as you're attacking instead of at enemy death. Something like 10% chance for uncharged, and 20% at charged so it's not completely OP.

[noneo]

Yeah I like that method.

1. Charged fireball
2. Charged Gale
3. Charged Time
4. Repeat

Time does seem pretty effective though especially with the DOT upgrade and the explosion afterward.

The only problem I have about 'attacking from a distance' is you can't really damage all the mobs, usually it's just a few in the front of the pack when in the time freeze. Which really makes even more sense to stun then time so you can stay close enough to hit everyone when they are down.Yea that works really well to keep on the pressure of mobs, but you're sacrificing serious amounts of damage since the cooldown times on the skills you're using in your build are a bit long. After hitting upper levels you'll start to see how important it is to have a skill like ice or lightning which have the shortest cooldown.

I just prefer ice because of the aoe freezing and slow component when charged, it can be a serious life saver in a pinch.

Lightning isn't as effective with crowed control because it's meant for a single target, not to mention the discharge skill in the tree is pretty much worthless at elite levels since it only activates upon your enemies death which can be difficult to predict in huge mobs. There's also the problem of hitting your intended target when multiple enemies are on you, it seems like lightning changes targets very wildly if you're not right on top of the one you wanna hit. So it's mostly a boss skill.

I really wish that the discharge skill in the tree would activate as you're attacking instead of at enemy death. Something like 10% chance for uncharged, and 20% at charged so it's not completely OP.

My skill set is fireball, gale, time, lightning.

I understand that I may be sacrificing some damage output from myself by just going through the three stunning skills (note that I do use my auto attack while cooldowns are regenerating), but I do this for a few reasons.

1. In a full or mostly full party, I am only ~1/3 - 1/4 of the total damage output (may be a bit more than that if the others are more conservative in the party). This means that the small extra damage I can place upon a single mob with lightning get overshadowed by the fact that now all the mobs are attacking every one! That extra lightning only targets one person, and sure I may kill him, but there are 10 other mobs right on top of my team teaching us how to touch our toes.

2. By mainly focusing on the burn and knock down and stun skills, the mobs never even have a chance to hurt us. Whether they are ranged or melee or magic men, they are rendered useless with any of the three skills aforementioned. By repeating these skills consistently, the skills essentially regenerate right as you finish the other two. Also, the damage dealt on impact, and the DOT WILL kill them. Sure it may take an extra second here or there, but not getting tag teamed by some archers makes me smile.

3. I dint know about said AOE effect for ice :p is it damage dealing? I know that when lightning is upgraded you have a slim chance to have an AOE blast that can damage other mobs, but it's only in the order of 15% or so.

Now this is all focusing on mob control, boss situations are a different story and I use lightning in place of Gale typically to utilize the high damage and low cool down. The way I see it is I have a decent chance to hit a 250% CRIT on a boss - that is quite impressive. That basically reduces my fighting time by about 14 seconds - or two other entire skills! And lightning is pretty powerful on its own. But you are right that it can be a bit sporadic on occasion.

[Rianaku]

My skill set is fireball, gale, time, lightning.

I understand that I may be sacrificing some damage output from myself by just going through the three stunning skills (note that I do use my auto attack while cooldowns are regenerating), but I do this for a few reasons.

1. In a full or mostly full party, I am only ~1/3 - 1/4 of the total damage output (may be a bit more than that if the others are more conservative in the party). This means that the small extra damage I can place upon a single mob with lightning get overshadowed by the fact that now all the mobs are attacking every one! That extra lightning only targets one person, and sure I may kill him, but there are 10 other mobs right on top of my team teaching us how to touch our toes.

2. By mainly focusing on the burn and knock down and stun skills, the mobs never even have a chance to hurt us. Whether they are ranged or melee or magic men, they are rendered useless with any of the three skills aforementioned. By repeating these skills consistently, the skills essentially regenerate right as you finish the other two. Also, the damage dealt on impact, and the DOT WILL kill them. Sure it may take an extra second here or there, but not getting tag teamed by some archers makes me smile.

3. I dint know about said AOE effect for ice :p is it damage dealing? I know that when lightning is upgraded you have a slim chance to have an AOE blast that can damage other mobs, but it's only in the order of 15% or so.

Now this is all focusing on mob control, boss situations are a different story and I use lightning in place of Gale typically to utilize the high damage and low cool down. The way I see it is I have a decent chance to hit a 250% CRIT on a boss - that is quite impressive. That basically reduces my fighting time by about 14 seconds - or two other entire skills! And lightning is pretty powerful on its own. But you are right that it can be a bit sporadic on occasion.

I agree, but only to a certain extent. You'll learn once you're starting to do Elites that you are not the #1 in charge of keeping everyone alive, the tank is. At a lower level most don't play their characters "part" overly well. As you hit Elites, you need to play your role properly, and as efficiently as possible or you'll end up stunting your party.

And as for not having passives,
It's a balancing act. For example, you may know martial arts like the back of your hand, but if you have no strength or endurance (in real life btw) you're not going to be as good as someone who still knows martial arts very very well, but also spends his spare time (like your spare points) strength and endurance training. One is not complete without a good balance of the other. You can't have all passives, it just wouldn't work, but likewise for all skills IMO.

Anyway, once you hit the higher levels and Elites, you'll be screaming and shouting at yourself for not making the most of passives.

Peace ~

[utpal]

IMO u should use this skill build
frostbolt 3/5
fireball 4/5
shield 3/4
lifegiver 2/5
when u get to shuyal give points to light 3/5 and give 2sec invulnerable upgrade in shield.
rest points in knowledge and might

so here is the combo:

engage large group of mobs with a charged shield.( 2sec invulnerable upgrade will help u mch here.) and blast charged fireball and the whole group will b stunned and knockdown then quickly use charged frost. all of those clustered enemies will b froze and then use charged life as ur HP will bcome low when those enemies who r not effected by ur skill will b hitting u.

again circle the above process.

thenat boss fight switch lifegiver to light as that heal is useless in boss coz it taunts boss which will be a bad idea.

this build also works great in pvp as well as elites.

[Striderevil]

In an elite map the only job of a mage is mob control. As far as bosses go the amount of damage contributed to a boss is far less than a rogue and of the three classes even with shield the first to die is the mage. So that being said a pve build even in elite is effective

I have done a few runs with shield vs lifegiver and in all honesty I save far more money with life than shield. The simple reason is in elite the simlplest of mobs with one or two hits will reduce your Hp to 40% easily. You are going to pot anyway regardless of shield or having lifegiver but the idea behind it is the first contact with a mob especially ranged will reduce your hp before you freeze or stun or root them. For that part life giver along with its mana replenish is the most useful. It not hard to lose 100 pots in 3-5 elite runs and get nothing for it especially if your war does not have aggro. In fact if your going to farm then it involves a heck of a lot of runs before you are lucky and get something worth selling to make up for the losses incurred from potting all the time. Its also impossible to expect your party to heal as often as you lose Hp. Elite grimnr, innanesh, frostir, shields make very little difference like maybe if your Hp is high enough your shield is broken and by the time the cool down is over your dead in the next 2-3 crits they throw. Apart from hp potting mana is another pain

I run with

-charged Fireball 5/5 (People avoid scorch but it reduces enemy hit chance by 25% all the time means increases my dodge and increase my survivability)
-Ice 4/5 (leave out arctic shatter cause in most cases mobs are dead rooted or frozen long before arctic shatter does anything)
-Clock 4/5 (I leave out time bomb because it does less damage than a charged fireball or Ice and is just a waste of a point because clock cool down is fast enough to recast.)
- Lifegiver 2/5 with mana replenish (everything else is a waste)

Passives - Damage, agility, Knowledge, might all 5/5

Next when expansion comes I'll add it to Crit/shield as in all honesty increasing armor will not increase survivability as you just never have enough. I have avoided crit because if you have over 20% already your going to see a lot of crits in your 3 DoT skills above Which will be as good as 1 lightening. For lightening to land the elusive 1.3 k crit is as rare as a locked crate so dont bother depending on that as Ice will do just as much damage with additional helpful skills like freeze and slow and has DoT.

I play on a tablet and running more than 4 skills is a pain to change unless you know how the map is and you need more defense and add shield.

The idea behind the build is that I stun the mob I throw clock, they they come together get rooted and then I freeze the rangers so that I have immobilzed the mob and I can kill them at leisure. Freeze does a better job than stun when activated because it lasts longer. Stun is more consistent though. So shield is useless to me as I try to shutdown the mob from attacking and kill them before they recover.