Samael vs the brothers whim

[Youngmurda]

This is a question what many people are asking. Which of the 2 pets is better.

So far imo based on my knowledge about whims abilities. I'm thinking samael for sure is worth your gold as an arcane pet.

Let's discuss this guys. What are your opinions ?

[falmear]

First I am only going to talk about the mage class, someone else can discuss their own class if they want. Also I don't know everything on the whim brothers so this is mostly going based on what I have read. For an arcane mage and PvP, Samael is best IMO. Because you already have a lot of damage what you lack is crit. With Samael I can get my crit to 34.88%. This on top of +35 INT & +10% damage makes you a formidable opponent in PvP. And his stun while doesn't work as often as I like is very good when it does work.

Now if we look at brothers whim you have similar stats +35 INT and 15% damage. So this makes it the best damage pet for mage but sacrificing crit. Mages lack anyway of getting crit. So to look at it another way its 34.88% vs 24.88%. Your lightning is critting 1 in 3 vs 1 in 4 times. So if you crit with broths whim you will do more damage because of the 5% more damage bonus. But you are critting less IMO for a mage Samael wins in damage. Because an extra 5% isn't a huge difference. Brothers whim wins in speed because 15% speed in PvP is under estimated and will help you kite and get away while you are dieing. 10% dodge isn't anything to get excited over. The arcane is unknown until I see it in PvP. A description can say whatever it wants but how it works is completely different. So I will reserve judgement on it but from what I read in another thread it sounds very interesting.

If we look at PvE I think this is where Brothers Whim has a real advantage. And if we start to consider doing timed runs then this pet really starts to look great. 15% speed in timed runs is OP. With the increased damage, this will be very good for certain maps. Where having a big crit doesn't matter as much because just stuff dies fast, so think of various easy elite maps, tombs, etc. Samael has the edge IMO for harder maps because of his arcane ability. If you have to beat on mobs for a longer period of time Samael can help with his banishment by thinning the herd or getting rid of that last remaining mob. Also Samael gives you an extra +100 health. And stunning is useful on these harder maps and bosses. Also if the arcane for Brothers whim is correct then a rogue trap on this pet will be great in PvE timed runs. Because doing pulls with this pet will improve times because the more mobs are packed together closely, the faster you can kill them.

So for me I would go for Samael in PvP. Though I think Brothers whim will not be a slouch in PvP. But we will have to see how its arcane works in PvP. And what exactly the passive ability is. But let me go out on a limb and say I think Brothers Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

[Ravager]

First I am only going to talk about the mage class, someone else can discuss their own class if they want. Also I don't know everything on the whim brothers so this is mostly going based on what I have read. For an arcane mage and PvP, Samael is best IMO. Because you already have a lot of damage what you lack is crit. With Samael I can get my crit to 34.88%. This on top of +35 INT & +10% damage makes you a formidable opponent in PvP. And his stun while doesn't work as often as I like is very good when it does work.

Now if we look at brothers whim you have similar stats +35 INT and 15% damage. So this makes it the best damage pet for mage but sacrificing crit. Mages lack anyway of getting crit. So to look at it another way its 34.88% vs 24.88%. Your lightning is critting 1 in 3 vs 1 in 4 times. So if you crit with broths whim you will do more damage because of the 5% more damage bonus. But you are critting less IMO for a mage Samael wins in damage. Because an extra 5% isn't a huge difference. Brothers whim wins in speed because 15% speed in PvP is under estimated and will help you kite and get away while you are dieing. 10% dodge isn't anything to get excited over. The arcane is unknown until I see it in PvP. A description can say whatever it wants but how it works is completely different. So I will reserve judgement on it but from what I read in another thread it sounds very interesting.

If we look at PvE I think this is where Brothers Whim has a real advantage. And if we start to consider doing timed runs then this pet really starts to look great. 15% speed in timed runs is OP. With the increased damage, this will be very good for certain maps. Where having a big crit doesn't matter as much because just stuff dies fast, so think of various easy elite maps, tombs, etc. Samael has the edge IMO for harder maps because of his arcane ability. If you have to beat on mobs for a longer period of time Samael can help with his banishment by thinning the herd or getting rid of that last remaining mob. Also Samael gives you an extra +100 health. And stunning is useful on these harder maps and bosses. Also if the arcane for Brothers whim is correct then a rogue trap on this pet will be great in PvE timed runs. Because doing pulls with this pet will improve times because the more mobs are packed together closely, the faster you can kill them.

So for me I would go for Samael in PvP. Though I think Brothers whim will not be a slouch in PvP. But we will have to see how its arcane works in PvP. And what exactly the passive ability is. But let me go out on a limb and say I think Brothers Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

Im still wondering if there is any hidden happiness bonus like the aura found on samael.

[iiirootzz]

First I am only going to talk about the mage class, someone else can discuss their own class if they want. Also I don't know everything on the whim brothers so this is mostly going based on what I have read. For an arcane mage and PvP, Samael is best IMO. Because you already have a lot of damage what you lack is crit. With Samael I can get my crit to 34.88%. This on top of +35 INT & +10% damage makes you a formidable opponent in PvP. And his stun while doesn't work as often as I like is very good when it does work.

Now if we look at brothers whim you have similar stats +35 INT and 15% damage. So this makes it the best damage pet for mage but sacrificing crit. Mages lack anyway of getting crit. So to look at it another way its 34.88% vs 24.88%. Your lightning is critting 1 in 3 vs 1 in 4 times. So if you crit with broths whim you will do more damage because of the 5% more damage bonus. But you are critting less IMO for a mage Samael wins in damage. Because an extra 5% isn't a huge difference. Brothers whim wins in speed because 15% speed in PvP is under estimated and will help you kite and get away while you are dieing. 10% dodge isn't anything to get excited over. The arcane is unknown until I see it in PvP. A description can say whatever it wants but how it works is completely different. So I will reserve judgement on it but from what I read in another thread it sounds very interesting.

If we look at PvE I think this is where Brothers Whim has a real advantage. And if we start to consider doing timed runs then this pet really starts to look great. 15% speed in timed runs is OP. With the increased damage, this will be very good for certain maps. Where having a big crit doesn't matter as much because just stuff dies fast, so think of various easy elite maps, tombs, etc. Samael has the edge IMO for harder maps because of his arcane ability. If you have to beat on mobs for a longer period of time Samael can help with his banishment by thinning the herd or getting rid of that last remaining mob. Also Samael gives you an extra +100 health. And stunning is useful on these harder maps and bosses. Also if the arcane for Brothers whim is correct then a rogue trap on this pet will be great in PvE timed runs. Because doing pulls with this pet will improve times because the more mobs are packed together closely, the faster you can kill them.

So for me I would go for Samael in PvP. Though I think Brothers whim will not be a slouch in PvP. But we will have to see how its arcane works in PvP. And what exactly the passive ability is. But let me go out on a limb and say I think Brothers Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.



So concise!! +1 sir

[Azepeiete]

Over 50% dodge with the brothers whim as a rogue! so I'd say they fare well in pvp for a rogue.

In pve, speaking on timed runs, the brothers whim are good in early maps where it's all about speed. Samaels crit and banish abilities will fair better in nordr/Shuyal where you kill in groups mostly

[Youngmurda]

I agree with pretty much everything you say besides this.

Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

Remember this pet gives the lowest Health out of all the arcane pets. On top of this disadvantage it doesn't even have health regen! Health is important for rouges to avoid those quick deaths from other rouges. Also rouges have always been lacking in mana.. Guess what tho? This pet also has no mana regen either ! Samael easily wins in this category imo.

In pvp 15% movement for a rouge isn't much useful imo. Shadow pierce gives like a 100% movement burst ( heck maybe more its faast) Sure you lose a bit of mana but that's why samael is such a beauty for this. You get back the mana you've lost pretty quickly! Making you being able to get to a specified location very quickly without mana lost if your timing is right ofcourse you can't just spam pierce obviously. lets say its 15% movement vs samaels 100 health, mana and health regain. Which one would you prefer? This is a no brainer lol

Also the 10% dodge we can both agree on that its pretty much a waste of a stat. Yes I agree rouges don't need much crit in endgame due to already having high amounts of crit but heck I'd pick samaels 10% crit over 10% dodge ANYDAY!! who wouldent?

The only category I'd say where whim beats sam in is by its arcane ability and its 15% dmg compared to sams 10% dmg. Lets face it its not like 5% DMG is going to be a ridiculous noticeable difference or even make you super OP. What's the 5% dmg difference to you? Wouldent you rather have more health and health regen so you can live longer? Wouldent you rather have mana regen so you can atk more? heck maybe if it was %25 dmg then it could be better then those things lol

Now the arcane ability... I've heard it's basically a trap which sucks enemies in and has a chance to stun. We can all agree that this is better then sams arcane ability but its not like sams arcane ability is TONS worst. The only way this pet even has a chance of being better then Sam imo is if it has AMAZING RIDICULOUS passives which most likely wont be the case lol. Samael also has a passive stun ability and I haven't heard about whim having this ability yet but maybe it does. I'm not sure ( if it doesn't oh man oh man ) lol.

Me being a rouge, I'd conclude that samael is definitely the better pvp pet by a long shot imo. Im pretty sure any others who pvp as a rouge would agree also. I haven't compared whims pve aspect vs sams because even if whim is better in pve I doubt anyone's going to want to cough up around 40m to play pve lol. We all know the majority of the population love arcane pets for pvp rather then pve.

[Desperoto]

I will say the brothers for 1v1 fights against rogues or other mages. A mage have to deal as much as possible damage when his shield is launched before the stuns and invulnarty is over. U can us ethe 3 sec stun after the 2 seconds are gone and u can kill the rogue easy

[Ish Shakunt]

What about for warriors? Which is better? I like my samael but.. if brothers whim gets an passive stun.. samael may not stand a chance against it :/

Sent from my Q800 using Tapatalk

[Desperoto]

What about for warriors? Which is better? I like my samael but.. if brothers whim gets an passive stun.. samael may not stand a chance against it :/

Sent from my Q800 using Tapatalk
Samael is very hard for me..

[Zeus]

I will say the brothers for 1v1 fights against rogues or other mages. A mage have to deal as much as possible damage when his shield is launched before the stuns and invulnarty is over. U can us ethe 3 sec stun after the 2 seconds are gone and u can kill the rogue easy

A mage's health is already so low with Samael that I can one combo it if shield is inactive. They're meant to be glass cannons, but now this would be pushing the survivability. Dropping a mage's health even more with The Brother's Whim isn't a good idea.

I honestly think that we can all agree many are happy Samael is still the best. However, I do think that happiness bonus should be reflected to be something more useful and arcane in quality.

[Saribeau]

I agree with pretty much everything you say besides this.


Remember this pet gives the lowest Health out of all the arcane pets. On top of this disadvantage it doesn't even have health regen! Health is important for rouges to avoid those quick deaths from other rouges. Also rouges have always been lacking in mana.. Guess what tho? This pet also has no mana regen either ! Samael easily wins in this category imo.

In pvp 15% movement for a rouge isn't much useful imo. Shadow pierce gives like a 100% movement burst ( heck maybe more its faast) Sure you lose a bit of mana but that's why samael is such a beauty for this. You get back the mana you've lost pretty quickly! Making you being able to get to a specified location very quickly without mana lost if your timing is right ofcourse you can't just spam pierce obviously. lets say its 15% movement vs samaels 100 health, mana and health regain. Which one would you prefer? This is a no brainer lol

Also the 10% dodge we can both agree on that its pretty much a waste of a stat. Yes I agree rouges don't need much crit in endgame due to already having high amounts of crit but heck I'd pick samaels 10% crit over 10% dodge ANYDAY!! who wouldent?

The only category I'd say where whim beats sam in is by its arcane ability and its 15% dmg compared to sams 10% dmg. Lets face it its not like 5% DMG is going to be a ridiculous noticeable difference or even make you super OP. What's the 5% dmg difference to you? Wouldent you rather have more health and health regen so you can live longer? Wouldent you rather have mana regen so you can atk more? heck maybe if it was %25 dmg then it could be better then those things lol

Now the arcane ability... I've heard it's basically a trap which sucks enemies in and has a chance to stun. We can all agree that this is better then sams arcane ability but its not like sams arcane ability is TONS worst. The only way this pet even has a chance of being better then Sam imo is if it has AMAZING RIDICULOUS passives which most likely wont be the case lol. Samael also has a passive stun ability and I haven't heard about whim having this ability yet but maybe it does. I'm not sure ( if it doesn't oh man oh man ) lol.

Me being a rouge, I'd conclude that samael is definitely the better pvp pet by a long shot imo. Im pretty sure any others who pvp as a rouge would agree also. I haven't compared whims pve aspect vs sams because even if whim is better in pve I doubt anyone's going to want to cough up around 40m to play pve lol. We all know the majority of the population love arcane pets for pvp rather then pve.

have u consider this is their idea of "buffing" mages? not end game mages twinks.so many twinks complain about how mages need buffing, they arent good without arcane, how warrs challenge them and they lose everytime.....well there it is. 2 +35 int pets. just my 2 cents

[Saribeau]

also, since i use the hardened upgrade on shield, and if the brothers become 10m, ill try my hardest to get one. ill be invincable for a few sec, so i can nuke a rogue and the use his AA to pull them away from pack and stun and they are dead.

[Z]

Im a little inexperienced with alot of this but in my opinion I see the differences of the 2 to be sam has 10 crit and 100 health, and whim bros have 5 more damage 15 speed and 10 dodge so I would have to say I feel bros have the edge.

[Youngmurda]

Im a little inexperienced with alot of this but in my opinion I see the differences of the 2 to be sam has 10 crit and 100 health, and whim bros have 5 more damage 15 speed and 10 dodge so I would have to say I feel bros have the edge.

Lol ... you must not pvp much

[csyui]

The only category I'd say where whim beats sam in is by its arcane ability and its 15% dmg compared to sams 10% dmg. Lets face it its not like 5% DMG is going to be a ridiculous noticeable difference or even make you super OP. What's the 5% dmg difference to you? Wouldent you rather have more health and health regen so you can live longer? Wouldent you rather have mana regen so you can atk more? heck maybe if it was %25 dmg then it could be better then those things lol


For a myth mage, he probably have over 600 dmg. 600*5%=30. Are you saying 30 more dmg is not big difference?

[Zeus]

Im a little inexperienced with alot of this but in my opinion I see the differences of the 2 to be sam has 10 crit and 100 health, and whim bros have 5 more damage 15 speed and 10 dodge so I would have to say I feel bros have the edge.

You're also ignoring the insanely strong passive and passive healing ability of Sam, Zhau.

Trust me, this pet does not come close to any of the arcane pets.

[Youngmurda]

For a myth mage, he probably have over 600 dmg. 600*5%=30. Are you saying 30 more dmg is not big difference?

If you didn't read correctly. I was talking about for rouges because he stated basically that its better then Sam for rouges

[csyui]

If you didn't read correctly. I was talking about for rouges because he stated basically that its better then Sam for rouges

And I am talking about your statement that 5% dmg is not big difference. Tell me, 20-25 more dmg and 100 more health, which will you choose when your myth rogue has over 3k HP.

Same thing applies on rogue. More dmg a character has, more advantages percentage increase will give.

[Zeus]

Same thing applies on rogue. More dmg a character has, percentage increase give more advantage.

It's very bad for rogues, IMO.

You're sacrificing a lot of mana, a lot of health, and a lot of other very useful passives for theoretical max damage. Plus, the slight increase in damage is negated by Samael's armor ignoring passive attacks.

[csyui]

It's very bad for rogues, IMO.

You're sacrificing a lot of mana, a lot of health, and a lot of other very useful passives for theoretical max damage. Plus, the slight increase in damage is negated by Samael's armor ignoring passive attacks.

How much health? how much mana? Rogues fight won't last long, it's all about who gets crit shot first. You can't expect more health will give you more chance to survive in this case.

[Z]

You're also ignoring the insanely strong passive and passive healing ability of Sam, Zhau.

Trust me, this pet does not come close to any of the arcane pets.

I ignored them purposely, considering it seems no one seen the brothers abilities yet. I was just comparing the official stats that has been available. And to oldmurda youre right, I dont pvp much but the idea of running faster and habing more dodge is quite appealing

[Z]

And when my mage has 3400 health I really dont think id miss 100

[Youngmurda]

And I am talking about your statement that 5% dmg is not big difference. Tell me, 20-25 more dmg and 100 more health, which will you choose when your myth rogue has over 3k HP.

Same thing applies on rogue. More dmg a character has, more advantages percentage increase will give.

100health, health regen and mana regen is very useful dude. As a rouge u can still crit ridiculous DMG without the extra 5% boost. So I'd pick the extra health and regenerations Sam has instead.

[falmear]

For me +100 health in PvP can be a big deal and the passive healing is very good because my armor sucks and I need as much health as possible without sacrificing damage. Livegiver is crappy so I don't even use the heal over time upgrade. However mythic rogues have more health and armor then mythic mages. And on top of that rogues do more damage. So what do you guys really want? Samael 2.0, with more health, more damage and better everything else? The game starts to escalate out of control with damage. And this is not taking into account how hard it is to kill warriors right now. This is an interesting pet and just wait until people using it in PvP or PvE. Just because no one will want to pay 30m for a pet is not justification to boost this pet.

[Z]

That ability to pull and stun is fairly impressive

[Emmacheese]

Well for me sammy wins, and I have them both (even tho mine is only level 15) I really miss Sams heal too when I have the brothers out :-/ I'm really disappointed tbh Jon pvp'd with his yesterday and he said he won't be doing that again!

[Emmacheese]

That ability to pull and stun is fairly impressive

It's ok but it's not a patch on banish (when Sam isn't being lazy that is)

[Zeus]

Well for me sammy wins, and I have them both (even tho mine is only level 15) I really miss Sams heal too when I have the brothers out :-/ I'm really disappointed tbh Jon pvp'd with his yesterday and he said he won't be doing that again!

It's an upgraded abaddon, which is slightly dissapointing. :/

[Azepeiete]

A very largely upgraded abaddon. As I don't own the brothers, my observations aren't solid, but I believe sts did an awesome job with this.

If you expected a banish from the brothers then i completely disagree with you. A trap proc is an AWESOME arcane and on top of it it reduces armor. This means your dmg to opponents increase while they are being perfectly grouped for you. On top of at, rogues shouldn't need trap anymore. This is awesome, especially in the earlier maps. In a pvp perspective, I think it's just nice to have the dodge, speed, and huge dmg. I maintain that 5% dmg is worth more than 10% crit. All of course, in my personal opinion.

[Limsi]

A very largely upgraded abaddon. As I don't own the brothers, my observations aren't solid, but I believe sts did an awesome job with this.

If you expected a banish from the brothers then i completely disagree with you. A trap proc is an AWESOME arcane and on top of it it reduces armor. This means your dmg to opponents increase while they are being perfectly grouped for you. On top of at, rogues shouldn't need trap anymore. This is awesome, especially in the earlier maps. In a pvp perspective, I think it's just nice to have the dodge, speed, and huge dmg. I maintain that 5% dmg is worth more than 10% crit. All of course, in my personal opinion.

Exactly. Well it's impossible to please everyone with their standards of what an arcane pet should be. Indeed Samael is a great PvP pet with the mana and hp heal as well as the banish, but people should not forget about the PvE aspect of the game. I'd take the brothers any time of the day when it comes to elite runs.

[falmear]

Does anyone know if this pet is a limited time thing? Or will it be in crates forever? Can anyone in STS confirm?

[Limsi]

Does anyone know if this pet is a limited time thing? Or will it be in crates forever? Can anyone in STS confirm?

This was posted in the announcement section:

Locked Grand Crates of the Watch
Pet Eggs have been added to Locked Grand Crates of the watch that will only have a chance of dropping during the Tarlok's Wrath event Dec 9 to Jan 6. These may rarely drop when opening a Locked Crate:
• New Holiday Arcane rarity pet egg: The Brothers Whim
• Mythic rarity pet eggs: Slag, Ripmaw and Abbadon
You only have a chance of obtaining these pet eggs from Locked Grand Crates of the Watch from Dec 9 to Jan 6. After Jan 6, these pet eggs will no longer drop.

[csyui]

This was posted in the announcement section:

Locked Grand Crates of the Watch
Pet Eggs have been added to Locked Grand Crates of the watch that will only have a chance of dropping during the Tarlok's Wrath event Dec 9 to Jan 6. These may rarely drop when opening a Locked Crate:
• New Holiday Arcane rarity pet egg: The Brothers Whim
• Mythic rarity pet eggs: Slag, Ripmaw and Abbadon
You only have a chance of obtaining these pet eggs from Locked Grand Crates of the Watch from Dec 9 to Jan 6. After Jan 6, these pet eggs will no longer drop.

We absolutely don't know whether it will be discontinued right after event or not. The post on forum says it's holiday arcane rarity pet egg. But the pet description in game is the same as other arcane pet. (Not saying it's holiday exclusive.)

I really don't want to see developers bring up "Oops, you guys misunderstood us again."

[falmear]

Thanks Lim.

[Kakashis]

The brothers pull in and stun ability is very interesting. I would love to have that kind of crowd control ability on a pet! However, Frost eye does the same thing but without the stun!

[Joncheese]

Ok so i thought i would just give mine and Emmas opinions as we capped the Twins last night:

Overall Stats of Pet

In our opinion the Twins Base Stats are pretty good on the mages, yes you lose some crit, but the extra 30 in damage certainly makes up for it and the 15% speed boost is just awesome. You really cant complain about the base stats of the pet, STS arent going to make another Samael and we wouldnt have wanted a 'Holiday' version anyway. You dont want 2 of the same pet do you? That would just be silly. Also we wouldnt have wanted to buy an extremely expensive version of the one we already have...... Although no doubt we probably would have done.

Passive Ability

We are fairly happy with the passive. The chance to provide -10% speed and armor to the opponent is great, and the final Passive can hit up to 4. This means as a mage and a rogue you can kill faster. Now, whether it be timed runs or PVP this should be an awesome passive... Theoretically in PVP you are 25% faster than your opponent. This passive COULD be the difference in a fight, and in PVE this is going to be a valuable difference against bosses, and with us having 2 of them, the mobs in timed runs are going to be interesting.... We are going to test this more later tonight.

Arcane Ability

So, this is the issue for us. This is the only thing we are undecided on. The Trap is good...... But seems somewhat unreliable. We leveled them in wt4 and Undim and every time we popped their arcane it seemed to be a gamble as to what was going to happen. Sometimes they would drag in 4 mobs, other times they would drag in 8. Sometimes they would be dragged from far out, sometimes they wouldnt be. Its a lottery in our opinion. Also, the stun after the trap seems to be.... erm...... cack.

I also tried this pet in PVP. Now admittedly it was at a lower level, but the arcane and passives still did the same thing. It was awful and the trap was pointless.

Summary

Great pet but it NEEDS to have its arcane ability looked at. STS need to in our opinion buff the Ability by:

1. Making the Stun Guarenteed
2. Adjusting the radius of the Arcane ability.
3. Guarentee the amount of mobs pulled in.


If you do this the pet will be worthy of PVP and PVE. This isnt much to ask for i dont think, and will actaully mean that the pet is worthy of the Arcane status.

Jon and Emm

So me and em tested them in Pvp a lot more tonight.

The arcane ability only seems to be useful as kind of an axe throw of sorts. We tried it out in 5v5 match and it worked surprisingly well, dragging the other team into a temporary ball, and whilst it is good the range and unreliability of it needs to be addressed. Also the stun is just awful. Changing both of these would make it perfect in our opinion.

The passive however is something else entirely...... Just wow. The bleed dmg is just immense. Once u start bleeding every tick is about 100. Your health seriously drops when this buff finally kicks in and if ur not careful they can actually kill u very fast. It's impressive.

Also we noticed that fireball has roughly an extra 100 dmg per ball, same with lightning, and if they crit. Light was topping out over 3k.

I'd say the pet is growing on us.... Quickly :)

[Valkiryas]

I dind't play with Samael or with the Whims Bothers but I'm pretty sure that Samael could beat very easy the whim bothers because their arcane hability is "weak' against the Samael's arcane ability.

Also Samael have heal regen and a nice critical

[Crowsfoot]

First I am only going to talk about the mage class, someone else can discuss their own class if they want. Also I don't know everything on the whim brothers so this is mostly going based on what I have read. For an arcane mage and PvP, Samael is best IMO. Because you already have a lot of damage what you lack is crit. With Samael I can get my crit to 34.88%. This on top of +35 INT & +10% damage makes you a formidable opponent in PvP. And his stun while doesn't work as often as I like is very good when it does work.

Now if we look at brothers whim you have similar stats +35 INT and 15% damage. So this makes it the best damage pet for mage but sacrificing crit. Mages lack anyway of getting crit. So to look at it another way its 34.88% vs 24.88%. Your lightning is critting 1 in 3 vs 1 in 4 times. So if you crit with broths whim you will do more damage because of the 5% more damage bonus. But you are critting less IMO for a mage Samael wins in damage. Because an extra 5% isn't a huge difference. Brothers whim wins in speed because 15% speed in PvP is under estimated and will help you kite and get away while you are dieing. 10% dodge isn't anything to get excited over. The arcane is unknown until I see it in PvP. A description can say whatever it wants but how it works is completely different. So I will reserve judgement on it but from what I read in another thread it sounds very interesting.

If we look at PvE I think this is where Brothers Whim has a real advantage. And if we start to consider doing timed runs then this pet really starts to look great. 15% speed in timed runs is OP. With the increased damage, this will be very good for certain maps. Where having a big crit doesn't matter as much because just stuff dies fast, so think of various easy elite maps, tombs, etc. Samael has the edge IMO for harder maps because of his arcane ability. If you have to beat on mobs for a longer period of time Samael can help with his banishment by thinning the herd or getting rid of that last remaining mob. Also Samael gives you an extra +100 health. And stunning is useful on these harder maps and bosses. Also if the arcane for Brothers whim is correct then a rogue trap on this pet will be great in PvE timed runs. Because doing pulls with this pet will improve times because the more mobs are packed together closely, the faster you can kill them.

So for me I would go for Samael in PvP. Though I think Brothers whim will not be a slouch in PvP. But we will have to see how its arcane works in PvP. And what exactly the passive ability is. But let me go out on a limb and say I think Brothers Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

You really need to work on your over use of rhetorical writing. After reading you have labled as follows.

1) Brother Whim has an additional +5% damage but lacks the +10% crit that Samael offers. The dodge chance is unimportant.

2) Samael stuns, the brothers don't.

3) Samael has his passive heal to consider

4) the speed bonus makes the brothers better for timed runs.

Points you missed:

1) Samael's banish ability is unmatched for power in PvE making it superior for most elite timed runs (I agree the brothers would be best for the crypts).

2) the Brothers can inflict very high bleed damage (57 damage a tick to me, who has 2004 armor) to four targets at a time. The proc rate is very high for their bleed.

3) the Brothers reduce movement speed of those they attack and pull mobs into mele range with their ability (this is huge for warriors like myself in both PvE and PvP).

4) the Brothers' ability reduces armor by 10%.

---

For a mage or rogue, I would go with samuel. But, as a warrior I actually really like the Brothers for PvP. They are the best pet for anti-kiting. Couple that with +15% damage and the high bleed damage, this pet should be great for long fights (what warriors are known for).

[phillyr]

Me and some people were talking in another post in"aimed shot vs lightning" and the main reason aimed does more damage is the armor debuff the skill has, so I would think the brothers aren't getting a fair assessment. -10% armor would make your attacks hit that much harder I would think...as a mage with crap for armor to begin with, it is kind of intimidating

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[gatzoo5505]

I have the brothers whim as a maxxed out mage its a disappointing pet. The stun is non existent has not seen it happen once. Without a reliable stun this pet in my humble opinion is a war pet.

Just imagine a war sucking a bunch of rogues n mage n knocking them off 1 by 1. Combo that with axe throw whoa... tks sts for making warriors more op.

Seriously if I was a war ill be drooling for this pet. Yes you do lose the crit sam offers but I think the arcane ability n awesome bleed damage from its passive makes up for it.

[gatzoo5505]

First I am only going to talk about the mage class, someone else can discuss their own class if they want. Also I don't know everything on the whim brothers so this is mostly going based on what I have read. For an arcane mage and PvP, Samael is best IMO. Because you already have a lot of damage what you lack is crit. With Samael I can get my crit to 34.88%. This on top of +35 INT & +10% damage makes you a formidable opponent in PvP. And his stun while doesn't work as often as I like is very good when it does work.

Now if we look at brothers whim you have similar stats +35 INT and 15% damage. So this makes it the best damage pet for mage but sacrificing crit. Mages lack anyway of getting crit. So to look at it another way its 34.88% vs 24.88%. Your lightning is critting 1 in 3 vs 1 in 4 times. So if you crit with broths whim you will do more damage because of the 5% more damage bonus. But you are critting less IMO for a mage Samael wins in damage. Because an extra 5% isn't a huge difference. Brothers whim wins in speed because 15% speed in PvP is under estimated and will help you kite and get away while you are dieing. 10% dodge isn't anything to get excited over. The arcane is unknown until I see it in PvP. A description can say whatever it wants but how it works is completely different. So I will reserve judgement on it but from what I read in another thread it sounds very interesting.

If we look at PvE I think this is where Brothers Whim has a real advantage. And if we start to consider doing timed runs then this pet really starts to look great. 15% speed in timed runs is OP. With the increased damage, this will be very good for certain maps. Where having a big crit doesn't matter as much because just stuff dies fast, so think of various easy elite maps, tombs, etc. Samael has the edge IMO for harder maps because of his arcane ability. If you have to beat on mobs for a longer period of time Samael can help with his banishment by thinning the herd or getting rid of that last remaining mob. Also Samael gives you an extra +100 health. And stunning is useful on these harder maps and bosses. Also if the arcane for Brothers whim is correct then a rogue trap on this pet will be great in PvE timed runs. Because doing pulls with this pet will improve times because the more mobs are packed together closely, the faster you can kill them.

So for me I would go for Samael in PvP. Though I think Brothers whim will not be a slouch in PvP. But we will have to see how its arcane works in PvP. And what exactly the passive ability is. But let me go out on a limb and say I think Brothers Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

You really need to work on your over use of rhetorical writing. After reading you have labled as follows.

1) Brother Whim has an additional +5% damage but lacks the +10% crit that Samael offers. The dodge chance is unimportant.

2) Samael stuns, the brothers don't.

3) Samael has his passive heal to consider

4) the speed bonus makes the brothers better for timed runs.

Points you missed:

1) Samael's banish ability is unmatched for power in PvE making it superior for most elite timed runs (I agree the brothers would be best for the crypts).

2) the Brothers can inflict very high bleed damage (57 damage a tick to me, who has 2004 armor) to four targets at a time. The proc rate is very high for their bleed.

3) the Brothers reduce movement speed of those they attack and pull mobs into mele range with their ability (this is huge for warriors like myself in both PvE and PvP).

4) the Brothers' ability reduces armor by 10%.

---

For a mage or rogue, I would go with samuel. But, as a warrior I actually really like the Brothers for PvP. They are the best pet for anti-kiting. Couple that with +15% damage and the high bleed damage, this pet should be great for long fights (what warriors are known for).

He did say he was a mage so yes he is right sam is better for mage n u r also correct this pet is deadly for warriors.

[Xpell]

I think if u look at each arcane pet as a whole, u would find out that Samael has a bit of an edge against Brothers Whim. Each pet has a better use for ones class, u just have to choose whats best for u.

[falmear]

Points you missed:

1) Samael's banish ability is unmatched for power in PvE making it superior for most elite timed runs (I agree the brothers would be best for the crypts).

2) the Brothers can inflict very high bleed damage (57 damage a tick to me, who has 2004 armor) to four targets at a time. The proc rate is very high for their bleed.

3) the Brothers reduce movement speed of those they attack and pull mobs into mele range with their ability (this is huge for warriors like myself in both PvE and PvP).

4) the Brothers' ability reduces armor by 10%.

---

For a mage or rogue, I would go with samuel. But, as a warrior I actually really like the Brothers for PvP. They are the best pet for anti-kiting. Couple that with +15% damage and the high bleed damage, this pet should be great for long fights (what warriors are known for).

My post was before much was known about Brothers Whim. So points #2,#3,#4 weren't even known at the time I wrote this. And I specifically mentioned point #1 but on some elite maps I would use Brothers Whim where you need speed and banishment doesn't buy you anything. You can go back and re-read my post. And I already stated that I would go with Samael, who I have. Lots of things come down to playing style and what you use. I have been wrong about pets in the past, specifically Orion and I can remember trashing this pet on the forums when I first saw him. But I was wrong and found him useful in different scenarios. So I try to keep a more opened mind about pets because not everything is clearly stated in the descriptions and sometimes there are hidden features. I personally don't like Abaddon for PvE or PvP even though I have used him on various occasions. But I have seen others use him in PvP and be successful with using him. Anyways, I'll let people speak that have him because I don't and at this point its irrelevant. But personally I'm glad there is some variation in arcane pets.

[phillyr]

I think I was there, everybody was telling him/her market value in Sam was around 25m...could have been with somebody else but I remember someone there trying to sell at 35

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[Saribeau]

Ok so i thought i would just give mine and Emmas opinions as we capped the Twins last night:

Overall Stats of Pet

In our opinion the Twins Base Stats are pretty good on the mages, yes you lose some crit, but the extra 30 in damage certainly makes up for it and the 15% speed boost is just awesome. You really cant complain about the base stats of the pet, STS arent going to make another Samael and we wouldnt have wanted a 'Holiday' version anyway. You dont want 2 of the same pet do you? That would just be silly. Also we wouldnt have wanted to buy an extremely expensive version of the one we already have...... Although no doubt we probably would have done.

Passive Ability

We are fairly happy with the passive. The chance to provide -10% speed and armor to the opponent is great, and the final Passive can hit up to 4. This means as a mage and a rogue you can kill faster. Now, whether it be timed runs or PVP this should be an awesome passive... Theoretically in PVP you are 25% faster than your opponent. This passive COULD be the difference in a fight, and in PVE this is going to be a valuable difference against bosses, and with us having 2 of them, the mobs in timed runs are going to be interesting.... We are going to test this more later tonight.

Arcane Ability

So, this is the issue for us. This is the only thing we are undecided on. The Trap is good...... But seems somewhat unreliable. We leveled them in wt4 and Undim and every time we popped their arcane it seemed to be a gamble as to what was going to happen. Sometimes they would drag in 4 mobs, other times they would drag in 8. Sometimes they would be dragged from far out, sometimes they wouldnt be. Its a lottery in our opinion. Also, the stun after the trap seems to be.... erm...... cack.

I also tried this pet in PVP. Now admittedly it was at a lower level, but the arcane and passives still did the same thing. It was awful and the trap was pointless.

Summary

Great pet but it NEEDS to have its arcane ability looked at. STS need to in our opinion buff the Ability by:

1. Making the Stun Guarenteed
2. Adjusting the radius of the Arcane ability.
3. Guarentee the amount of mobs pulled in.


If you do this the pet will be worthy of PVP and PVE. This isnt much to ask for i dont think, and will actaully mean that the pet is worthy of the Arcane status.

Jon and Emm

So me and em tested them in Pvp a lot more tonight.

The arcane ability only seems to be useful as kind of an axe throw of sorts. We tried it out in 5v5 match and it worked surprisingly well, dragging the other team into a temporary ball, and whilst it is good the range and unreliability of it needs to be addressed. Also the stun is just awful. Changing both of these would make it perfect in our opinion.

The passive however is something else entirely...... Just wow. The bleed dmg is just immense. Once u start bleeding every tick is about 100. Your health seriously drops when this buff finally kicks in and if ur not careful they can actually kill u very fast. It's impressive.

Also we noticed that fireball has roughly an extra 100 dmg per ball, same with lightning, and if they crit. Light was topping out over 3k.

I'd say the pet is growing on us.... Quickly :)

sounds like a win if the 2 things u addressed are fixed. pull and stun for 5v5 most the rogues and mages will die. gf

[Crowsfoot]

My post was before much was known about Brothers Whim. then why/how did you post such a "concise" response?So points #2,#3,#4 weren't even known at the time I wrote this. hence, why I added them. They were missing, now they are not.And I specifically mentioned point #1 but on some elite maps I would use Brothers Whim where you need speed and banishment doesn't buy you anything. elite timed runs do major pulls where banish clears the majority of mobs. I assumed you would be able to see that I was disagreeing (I read your entire post)You can go back and re-read my post. redundant, why would I reread after being told to reference your post? And I already stated that I would go with Samael, If you read MY post you see that I agree Samael is superior for mages. who I have. Lots of things come down to playing style and what you use. I have been wrong about pets in the past, specifically Orion and I can remember trashing this pet on the forums when I first saw him off topic. You are filling space with an unecessary story that limits your credibility. But I was wrong and found him useful in different scenarios. So I try to keep a more opened mind about pets because not everything is clearly stated in the descriptions and sometimes there are hidden features. If you are open minded, why wouldn't you use my post to adapt your opinion?I personally don't like Abaddon for PvE or PvP even though I have used him on various occasions. Again, off topic But I have seen others use him in PvP and be successful with using him. Anyways, I'll let people speak that have him because I don't and at this point its irrelevant. As I said, off topic. Thank you for admitting it But personally I'm glad there is some variation in arcane pets.

I'm entirely willing to annotate your posts if you REALLY want to nit pick, and stick to your generalizations.

Response is the bold print in quote.

[inkredible]

Ok so i thought i would just give mine and Emmas opinions as we capped the Twins last night:

Overall Stats of Pet

In our opinion the Twins Base Stats are pretty good on the mages, yes you lose some crit, but the extra 30 in damage certainly makes up for it and the 15% speed boost is just awesome. You really cant complain about the base stats of the pet, STS arent going to make another Samael and we wouldnt have wanted a 'Holiday' version anyway. You dont want 2 of the same pet do you? That would just be silly. Also we wouldnt have wanted to buy an extremely expensive version of the one we already have...... Although no doubt we probably would have done.

Passive Ability

We are fairly happy with the passive. The chance to provide -10% speed and armor to the opponent is great, and the final Passive can hit up to 4. This means as a mage and a rogue you can kill faster. Now, whether it be timed runs or PVP this should be an awesome passive... Theoretically in PVP you are 25% faster than your opponent. This passive COULD be the difference in a fight, and in PVE this is going to be a valuable difference against bosses, and with us having 2 of them, the mobs in timed runs are going to be interesting.... We are going to test this more later tonight.

Arcane Ability

So, this is the issue for us. This is the only thing we are undecided on. The Trap is good...... But seems somewhat unreliable. We leveled them in wt4 and Undim and every time we popped their arcane it seemed to be a gamble as to what was going to happen. Sometimes they would drag in 4 mobs, other times they would drag in 8. Sometimes they would be dragged from far out, sometimes they wouldnt be. Its a lottery in our opinion. Also, the stun after the trap seems to be.... erm...... cack.

I also tried this pet in PVP. Now admittedly it was at a lower level, but the arcane and passives still did the same thing. It was awful and the trap was pointless.

Summary

Great pet but it NEEDS to have its arcane ability looked at. STS need to in our opinion buff the Ability by:

1. Making the Stun Guarenteed
2. Adjusting the radius of the Arcane ability.
3. Guarentee the amount of mobs pulled in.


If you do this the pet will be worthy of PVP and PVE. This isnt much to ask for i dont think, and will actaully mean that the pet is worthy of the Arcane status.

Jon and Emm

So me and em tested them in Pvp a lot more tonight.

The arcane ability only seems to be useful as kind of an axe throw of sorts. We tried it out in 5v5 match and it worked surprisingly well, dragging the other team into a temporary ball, and whilst it is good the range and unreliability of it needs to be addressed. Also the stun is just awful. Changing both of these would make it perfect in our opinion.

The passive however is something else entirely...... Just wow. The bleed dmg is just immense. Once u start bleeding every tick is about 100. Your health seriously drops when this buff finally kicks in and if ur not careful they can actually kill u very fast. It's impressive.

Also we noticed that fireball has roughly an extra 100 dmg per ball, same with lightning, and if they crit. Light was topping out over 3k.

I'd say the pet is growing on us.... Quickly :)

must copy paste this on oldmurda's first post
incase this thread get flooded, be nice to see this summary +1


make this a poll? i wanna see the majority of people's opinion

[Azepeiete]

I think the brothers whim is good in lots of time runs, not just crypt. In example, brackenridge forest, you will not stop much if at all. Personally, i own samael, but i use my slag in maps from brack forest to rooks nest, and again in some of dead city, because of long run. Make sense? Not every map is huge huge pulls, sometimes its stop and go, or even run and gun. Not always "lets pull half the map here and banish them".

Edit: this was to crowfoot and falmear, i was unclear on your opinion of it like that, so i stated my own

[Crowsfoot]

I think the brothers whim is good in lots of time runs, not just crypt. In example, brackenridge forest, you will not stop much if at all. Personally, i own samael, but i use my slag in maps from brack forest to rooks nest, and again in some of dead city, because of long run. Make sense? Not every map is huge huge pulls, sometimes its stop and go, or even run and gun. Not always "lets pull half the map here and banish them".

Edit: this was to crowfoot and falmear, i was unclear on your opinion of it like that, so i stated my own

True, I gennerally don't consider these maps since the lb for them is dominated by rogues. I can see the movemenet speed being an advantage here, for the same reason it is in the crypts, mobs die fast.

[Joncheese]

You really need to work on your over use of rhetorical writing. After reading you have labled as follows.

1) Brother Whim has an additional +5% damage but lacks the +10% crit that Samael offers. The dodge chance is unimportant. The extra dmg is noticeable, also when you crit it really hurts. The dodge chance IS important, i've noticed a difference when using him and now avoid 1 in 5.

2) Samael stuns, the brothers don't. The brothers dont sun, but they do inflict a 200 dmg attack at the end of the pull. This can crit up to 370 ish.

3) Samael has his passive heal to consider The only thing this pet lacks IMO is a decent passive.

4) the speed bonus makes the brothers better for timed runs. Like running with an elixir on, absolutely awesome speed.

Points you missed:

1) Samael's banish ability is unmatched for power in PvE making it superior for most elite timed runs (I agree the brothers would be best for the crypts). Whilst its unmatched for banish if yo uare using more than one the armor and speed debuff does help, and its constant unlike the banish. i'd agree that samaels arcane is better though

2) the Brothers can inflict very high bleed damage (57 damage a tick to me, who has 2004 armor) to four targets at a time. The proc rate is very high for their bleed. Its crazy, if you havent got alot of health (say 40%) and you're a rogue or mage you have to watch out. The Tick is quick.... Insanely quick.

3) the Brothers reduce movement speed of those they attack and pull mobs into mele range with their ability (this is huge for warriors like myself in both PvE and PvP). I'd be scared of a warrior with this in PVP if they had a Glaive too. If i could justify it i would put one on my warrior.

4) the Brothers' ability reduces armor by 10%.As a mage with over 600 dmg this makes things interesting.

---

For a mage or rogue, I would go with samuel. But, as a warrior I actually really like the Brothers for PvP. They are the best pet for anti-kiting. Couple that with +15% damage and the high bleed damage, this pet should be great for long fights (what warriors are known for).

Hope you dont mind Crow but i added some replies to your post.

I'd be scared of you if you had this pet Crow. All i'm saying is, remember who your buddies are if you do get one!

I keep saying it though, change the arcane ability or make it stronger. There's a certain hype surrounding this pet, but i think its for the wrong reasons. I bet the pets popularity would be so much greater if the arcane was something a little bit more special. Thats my opinion though, dont get me wrong i like the pet, but i dont love it as much as Sammy.



I have the brothers whim as a maxxed out mage its a disappointing pet. The stun is non existent has not seen it happen once. Without a reliable stun this pet in my humble opinion is a war pet.

Just imagine a war sucking a bunch of rogues n mage n knocking them off 1 by 1. Combo that with axe throw whoa... tks sts for making warriors more op.

Seriously if I was a war ill be drooling for this pet. Yes you do lose the crit sam offers but I think the arcane ability n awesome bleed damage from its passive makes up for it.

Try it some more, try some different methods of attack with them. Try and forget the arcane being a bit naff and use the pull to your advantage. I was having a 1v1 yesterday in ctf, both myself and my opponent went for the heal drop, i pulled them back and the devastate of the arcane killed them... I then grabbed the heal. Remember that we have excessive dmg, and with +15% dmg from Whimm, +5% from passives your dmg can be well over 700. Couple that with a proc or someone elses pet buff and whoever your fighting is in some serious trouble.... and there's no escape cos you can pull them in if they try to run away :p

[nelson131]

you guys should check on a guide on the guide part about samael. it is really good. i think samael is better cause 10 crit and passive has poison attack on every strike. he also have an aoe skill whch has a 3m radius.

[Joncheese]

you guys should check on a guide on the guide part about samael. it is really good. i think samael is better cause 10 crit and passive has poison attack on every strike. he also have an aoe skill whch has a 3m radius.

No one is saying that Sammy isnt better buddy, we're just having a general discussion about it...... Most if not all of the people chatting about it already have Samael ;) I think the general consensus is that Sammy is better for Mage/Rogue and Whimm is better for warriors. At least at first glance.

[Youngmurda]

I keep saying it though, change the arcane ability or make it stronger. There's a certain hype surrounding this pet, but i think its for the wrong reasons. I bet the pets popularity would be so much greater if the arcane was something a little bit more special. Thats my opinion though, dont get me wrong i like the pet, but i dont love it as much as Sammy.


Exactly bro. Give it's arcane ability a stun then everyone's happy. I wouldn't hate on the pet anymore if this happened lol. Tbh I guess I was just excited for a new arcane pet until I seen whim ..... Disappointed.

[Crowsfoot]

Lol, np Jon. However, why did you anotate my analysis of Falmear's post?

Anyway, I'm just hoping I win one of the eggs from the forum contest *fingers crossed*

[Crowsfoot]

you guys should check on a guide on the guide part about samael. it is really good. i think samael is better cause 10 crit and passive has poison attack on every strike. he also have an aoe skill whch has a 3m radius.

You do realize all four of the main people posting on this page have Samael right?

A few falseties in your statement:

1) his poison isn't every hit (I hardly see it) and it usually only lasts 2-4 seconds before dying off.

2) his aoe stun, though amazing, isn't every hit. Its a chance and a long cool down. I do believe it is stronger than the whim brother's ability, but I truley don't want to see the whim brothers become OP.

---

IMO, if -50% movement speed for 2-3 seconds was added to the whim brothers ability I think it would become massively stronger.

With such a hard slash to the movement speed of both players and mobs, those hit by this ability would be yemporarilly stuck in the ball the brothers force them into. This leaves a nice window for any area based attacks like fireball, wind, curse, clock, wm, ss, nox bolt, and shadow storm shot to make fatal blows.

[bhutkeyur]

In lower lvl dungens time run whims is useful but in higher lvl sam is king because of banish spamming.

[Joncheese]

Lol, np Jon. However, why did you anotate my analysis of Falmear's post?

Anyway, I'm just hoping I win one of the eggs from the forum contest *fingers crossed*

Dunno. Boredom?


You do realize all four of the main people posting on this page have Samael right?

A few falseties in your statement:

1) his poison isn't every hit (I hardly see it) and it usually only lasts 2-4 seconds before dying off.

2) his aoe stun, though amazing, isn't every hit. Its a chance and a long cool down. I do believe it is stronger than the whim brother's ability, but I truley don't want to see the whim brothers become OP.

---

IMO, if -50% movement speed for 2-3 seconds was added to the whim brothers ability I think it would become massively stronger.

With such a hard slash to the movement speed of both players and mobs, those hit by this ability would be yemporarilly stuck in the ball the brothers force them into. This leaves a nice window for any area based attacks like fireball, wind, curse, clock, wm, ss, nox bolt, and shadow storm shot to make fatal blows.

Yes! Would be just beautiful.

[gatzoo5505]

See Jon that's the problem I'm having.. with Sam I can do half the work n still win that match easily. You need to be so precise to win a close match with Whim. Getting it to be position correctly n wat not quite a pain while getting blasted by your opponents.

I think the only class that benefits greatly r warriors but most of them so stuck up Sam's arse they don't see it..

Give me Sam or no peace!!!

[Crowsfoot]

See Jon that's the problem I'm having.. with Sam I can do half the work n still win that match easily. You need to be so precise to win a close match with Whim. Getting it to be position correctly n wat not quite a pain while getting blasted by your opponents.

I think the only class that benefits greatly r warriors but most of them so stuck up Sam's arse they don't see it..

Give me Sam or no peace!!!

Whim isn't what many want. The mass of players want pets that take limited skill and consitently prevail (gear > skill). The brothers offer a lot of potential, but require practice. Its like axe throw, jugg, or vixen. When you use the ability will prove more important than how often.

[Azepeiete]

In lower lvl dungens time run whims is useful but in higher lvl sam is king because of banish spamming.

Banish spamming is slower than using skills

[bhutkeyur]

Banish spamming is slower than using skills

Well if warrior in group - he can do that when juggernut/HoR is up. Not recommended for other classes. But meh hardly seen warriors in time run now a days.

[gatzoo5505]

See Jon that's the problem I'm having.. with Sam I can do half the work n still win that match easily. You need to be so precise to win a close match with Whim. Getting it to be position correctly n wat not quite a pain while getting blasted by your opponents.

I think the only class that benefits greatly r warriors but most of them so stuck up Sam's arse they don't see it..

Give me Sam or no peace!!!

Whim isn't what many want. The mass of players want pets that take limited skill and consitently prevail (gear > skill). The brothers offer a lot of potential, but require practice. Its like axe throw, jugg, or vixen. When you use the ability will prove more important than how often.

Trust me Whimms arcane ability is nowhere as consistent as axe throw. Just cause it feels alike it doesnt offer the same thing. In ctf probably works a lot better sinve its straight n narrow but tdm its way harder.

Jon make a valid point if u get this pet lets be friends :-)

[gatzoo5505]

See Jon that's the problem I'm having.. with Sam I can do half the work n still win that match easily. You need to be so precise to win a close match with Whim. Getting it to be position correctly n wat not quite a pain while getting blasted by your opponents.

I think the only class that benefits greatly r warriors but most of them so stuck up Sam's arse they don't see it..

Give me Sam or no peace!!!

Whim isn't what many want. The mass of players want pets that take limited skill and consitently prevail (gear > skill). The brothers offer a lot of potential, but require practice. Its like axe throw, jugg, or vixen. When you use the ability will prove more important than how often.

The other problem is as a mage we get like 5 sec fights its either me or them. We just dun have the armor or hp to fully ulitize this pet.

Stun is an ability that's far better no matter how inconsistent for us mages n rogues.

[Ravager]

See Jon that's the problem I'm having.. with Sam I can do half the work n still win that match easily. You need to be so precise to win a close match with Whim. Getting it to be position correctly n wat not quite a pain while getting blasted by your opponents.

I think the only class that benefits greatly r warriors but most of them so stuck up Sam's arse they don't see it..

Give me Sam or no peace!!!

Whim isn't what many want. The mass of players want pets that take limited skill and consitently prevail (gear > skill). The brothers offer a lot of potential, but require practice. Its like axe throw, jugg, or vixen. When you use the ability will prove more important than how often.

Trust me Whimms arcane ability is nowhere as consistent as axe throw. Just cause it feels alike it doesnt offer the same thing. In ctf probably works a lot better sinve its straight n narrow but tdm its way harder.

Jon make a valid point if u get this pet lets be friends :-)

It fails randomly in ctf as well.

[Crowsfoot]

Axe throw is commonly, IMO, misused. Hence my comparison. I see far too often warriors just use axe throw. You have to aim it. Even if it cools down its worth the extra two seconds to aim and hit the rogue.

Ps: I've seen emma and Jon use them in PvP. I'm well aware of its faults. Additionally it doesn't randomly fail. I was on the oposing temabin one match (Don't worry I was flagging) and emma tried to troll me with the pull and bleed damage. You can dodge the arcane ability, same as all other pets.

[Instanthumor]

Axe throw is commonly, IMO, misused. Hence my comparison. I see far too often warriors just use axe throw. You have to aim it. Even if it cools down its worth the extra two seconds to aim and hit the rogue.

Ps: I've seen emma and Jon use them in PvP. I'm well aware of its faults. Additionally it doesn't randomly fail. I was on the oposing temabin one match (Don't worry I was flagging) and emma tried to troll me with the pull and bleed damage. You can dodge the arcane ability, same as all other pets.

Omg, you should see Jon trolling with his whims... It's devastating... and it hurts for a mage!

[Ravager]

Axe throw is commonly, IMO, misused. Hence my comparison. I see far too often warriors just use axe throw. You have to aim it. Even if it cools down its worth the extra two seconds to aim and hit the rogue.

Ps: I've seen emma and Jon use them in PvP. I'm well aware of its faults. Additionally it doesn't randomly fail. I was on the oposing temabin one match (Don't worry I was flagging) and emma tried to troll me with the pull and bleed damage. You can dodge the arcane ability, same as all other pets.

I listed a few theories when it fails for me in the bug thread responding to Jon's thread. I dont dont believe it is dodge since it misses entire groups sometimes. Random perhaps from the users perspective but im sure there is calculation behind it.

[Joncheese]

I listed a few theories when it fails for me in the bug thread responding to Jon's thread. I dont dont believe it is dodge since it misses entire groups sometimes. Random perhaps from the users perspective but im sure there is calculation behind it.

I agree there is definitely an inconsistency.