What if they could sell Pocket Legends?

[fourleaf]

I have loved pocket legends since I downloaded it over 3 years ago. The past year, however, has been a let down for me. Great veterans quitting, lack of balance, lack of consistant, challenging, and new content.

Almost all attention has been poured to AL. I realize you are in it to make money. These games are your job not just a hobby. You can't ignore your old games. In the long run people will see, they will have a great game to play for a year, then they are left discontent to look for a new game.
Pocket Legends was one of the first mobile MMOs and it had so much potential while you were ahead of the pack, instead of time consuming work to update it, new games were created with copied interfaces.
Not sure if this was considered, but could you not sell the Pocket Legends game to a developer studio that could give it the attention you could not? At least for the sake of the customers who got you where you are give this some consideration.

edit: wrong word 'poured' *facepalm*

[Elitephonix]

Actually, I agree with this guy. Stg will probably delete this thread because they are what they are, but I thought of this before on my own time, listen to this guy sts.

[Int]

Can't find the quote(someone please correct me) but samhayne did say if StS only worked on PL, they wouldn't be here today. Making more games such as PL puts food on their table. AL is currently making money because of locked crates mostly and they work on that. PL has had attention for 3+ years, They are just simply putting the same attention to AL. But Sts will have updates for PL such as 81 cap and etc

[fourleaf]

Can't find the quote(someone please correct me) but samhayne did say if StS only worked on PL, they wouldn't be here today. Making more games such as PL puts food on their table. AL is currently making money because of locked crates mostly and they work on that. PL has had attention for 3+ years, They are just simply putting the same attention to AL. But Sts will have updates for PL such as 81 cap and etc
PL had the spotlight because even with their newer stuff, SL and DL, still didn't have near the popularity.
And like I said, I realize they need to exist and make more money, who doesn't want to make more.

Atleast have a bit of gratitude to the players that started when PL was nothing and stuck with them through a year of nothing. If they can't provide content, why not make the money by selling their masterpiece to someone who will?

[Jig]

PL had the spotlight because even with their newer stuff, SL and DL, still didn't have near the popularity.
And like I said, I realize they need to exist and make more money, who doesn't want to make more.

Atleast have a bit of gratitude to the players that started when PL was nothing and stuck with them through a year of nothing. If they can't provide content, why not make the money by selling their masterpiece to someone who will?

And how would that work? selling "Just' Pocket legends to another company....? if that happened, I think the game would get A LOAD worse, or better, it's a risk, but it's up to sts it is their choice, yes maybe the community has a say in it to but man.. it's sts's game, they can do what they want

[Isopure]

I think this would probably be a good solution. I couldn't agree more with the lack of content, challenging level of the game ect. It would make sense to sell the game if they aren't even putting any real time into it. Although, in my opinion the reason they would keep it would be to get as much money from us as possible without giving us any real updates. Small things that would still bring in money seeing as they clearly don't have enough time to manage the game. Selling the game to another company would make them money but keeping pl on the back burner will make them more money over time.

[fourleaf]

And how would that work? selling "Just' Pocket legends to another company....? if that happened, I think the game would get A LOAD worse, or better, it's a risk, but it's up to sts it is their choice, yes maybe the community has a say in it to but man.. it's sts's game, they can do what they want
Just asking them to consider, honestly, I don't think it would get worse maybe some unpopular changes, like subscriptions, more pay per run dungeons, or whole paid campaigns. No one is going to buy the game and not try to increase its sales.
The main problem I see is that all of their games have similar codes, so I am not sure how that would work as far as another company owning one game or multiple.

[ooommmggg]

I hate to agree, but I do.

[Jig]

Just asking them to consider, honestly, I don't think it would get worse maybe some unpopular changes, like subscriptions, more pay per run dungeons, or whole paid campaigns. No one is going to buy the game and not try to increase its sales.
The main problem I see is that all of their games have similar codes, so I am not sure how that would work as far as another company owning one game or multiple.

I have no idea how this stuff works but they're sort of connected...? like AL DL SL. I'm not the smartest with this stuff >.< And no I wouldn't agree that is dumb, the way it is, is perfect, just need to have some faith..

[fourleaf]

I would hesitate to call the current state of PL 'perfect'

[Grrrrimadoggy]

Seeing as we haven't had any real new content except some vanity, revamped stuff, ect. And none are "On the horizon" I think this might be a good idea if it was sold to someone who really would work on it and put in the time and effort.

[Jig]

I would hesitate to call the current state of PL 'perfect'

I don't mean it like that.. I mean all this Subscription free to play and such is how it should be, and how you buy platinum, how you buy items all that.

Like example, That crappy game chaos whatever, costs to BUY it, then costs monthly to play.. crap. hate it.. PL sits on its face

[Cavoc]

I would have to disagree. Simply because this is a mobile game, and I don't think there very many reliable companies that would keep it updated or even keep it running. If a big company like EA, or one that has a backbone to really rely on, I doubt it's a company run completely on mobile games. Meaning they will have just as many (if not more) games to maintain.

[Jig]

I would have to disagree. Simply because this is a mobile game, and I don't think there very many reliable companies that would keep it updated or even keep it running. If a big company like EA, or one that has a backbone to really rely on, I doubt it's a company run completely on mobile games. Meaning they will have just as many (if not more) games to maintain.

nonononnnononono not EA NO they're worse with there servers! i mean RIDICULOUS BAD! EA is big yes but... still not the best

[Noodleleg]

Selling?

Offers?

[Caiahar]

I would have to disagree. Simply because this is a mobile game, and I don't think there very many reliable companies that would keep it updated or even keep it running. If a big company like EA, or one that has a backbone to really rely on, I doubt it's a company run completely on mobile games. Meaning they will have just as many (if not more) games to maintain.
Pretty much. Already, mobile games won't make as much money, so people wouldn't bother to buy and do stuff with it.
And I would hate for something way more terrible happening with another company working on this :(

[fourleaf]

Like example, That crappy game chaos whatever, costs to BUY it, then costs monthly to play.. crap. hate it.. PL sits on its face
Order and Chaos is actually no longer subscription based, most of its revenue comes from lottery chests were you can get lucky and just buy the best gear with no effort, which IMO is a turn for the worse.

Subscription is actually an ideal set up as far as the consumer is concerned. When the content sucks subscribers drop and the developer has to make better content to keep the players happy.

[Cavoc]

nonononnnononono not EA NO they're worse with there servers! i mean RIDICULOUS BAD! EA is big yes but... still not the best

Yeah I know, it was just an example. the point is sts is one of the most reliable companies to keep the game even running.

[Grrrrimadoggy]

Why are we even talking about this...it will never be sold.

[Jig]

Why are we even talking about this...it will never be sold.

Lol we know..

[fourleaf]

atleast this appears to be one of the more constructive threads here...
Although I highly doubt this will happen primarily due to the low number of possible buyers as far as I know.
Just thought they could give it a thought especially as it continues to die.

[Grrrrimadoggy]

I'm glad you know.lol

[Caiahar]

Why are we even talking about this...it will never be sold.

Lol we know..
Like jig, all of us are noobs and like to talk about the most random stuff.
So jig, how much was that toilet polish you just bought? Canz I offerz on it? :]




Wow.

[Jig]

This is just silly lol.

[Jig]

Like jig, all of us are noobs and like to talk about the most random stuff.
So jig, how much was that toilet polish you just bought? Canz I offerz on it? :]




Wow.

Shadow! the toilet polish is horrible! it smells! and barely does its job! never buy that type again smh

[Caiahar]

Like jig, all of us are noobs and like to talk about the most random stuff.
So jig, how much was that toilet polish you just bought? Canz I offerz on it? :]




Wow.

Shadow! the toilet polish is horrible! it smells! and barely does its job! never buy that type again smh
Oh, what about those boot polishes that are all black and slimy? Wut bout it? Lets see, 100k? :D

And also those new eatable toothpaste? Tried it?
& the new kind of soap that looks weird?

Lol at this.

[Jig]

Oh, what about those boot polishes that are all black and slimy? Wut bout it? Lets see, 100k? :D

And also those new eatable toothpaste? Tried it?
& the new kind of soap that looks weird?

Lol at this.

Look, if you wanna buy all this then fine, but warning, eatable toothpaste after lots of eating, it grows your.. no not what you think, it grows your chin a lot fatter, so its not the best to eat a lot. But I can take 50K for that

well screw it, 300k for all! deal?

soap is wonderful and the boot polishes are a different brand as the toilet polish so yeah it's the good type! BUY NOW!

[Caiahar]

Oh, what about those boot polishes that are all black and slimy? Wut bout it? Lets see, 100k? :D

And also those new eatable toothpaste? Tried it?
& the new kind of soap that looks weird?

Lol at this.

Look, if you wanna buy all this then fine, but warning, eatable toothpaste after lots of eating, it grows your.. no not what you think, it grows your chin a lot fatter, so its not the best to eat a lot. But I can take 50K for that

well screw it, 300k for all! deal?

soap is wonderful and the boot polishes are a different brand as the toilet polish so yeah it's the good type! BUY NOW!

Wat about those chainsaws? Maybe u let one loose in your house accidently and its screwing up your ping. Get better chainsaws plz. Or better chains

[Jig]

Wat about those chainsaws? Maybe u let one loose in your house accidently and its screwing up your ping. Get better chainsaws plz. Or better chains

The chainsaw has no fuel in it :/

[Chopper]

It should be sold. A start up company can get millions of loyal customers right off the bat (and believe me, the ones who are left are loyal). STG can make a bit of money by selling instead of waiting until the lights turn off by themselves and the players get an energized new team who will put their attention into PL again to try and rebuild as much player base as possible. Winners all around.

Otherwise, STG continues to drag PL out, making no definite promises so they can keep players in limbo and make diminishing returns until they can close the doors and PL will be worthless, at the same time, destroying all the goodwill left towards STG from the PL player base. losers all around.

[LEVEL ONE]

Yes, please. Sell it to someone who would appreciate the huge (for a mobile mmo) and loyal community.

[Jig]

Shutup noobs no

[Hawkbby]

Wow all u doodz one PL tu b sowd, all wii can ssay iz wut if's, I woodn't eben ahsoom STS wood eben du et cuz dey dnt ned monies fer hax on AL, DL, SL, so liek let dem b mayne, even my bb Doc, and Jig agree, cus if dey has tu, dey wil hax. N ee way ef yu tink dat sts should sell, ten jumph off da sts boat. K? K.

[Doodlebeast]

Well. I hate to say it but.. This might be a pretty good idea...

[Suchislife]

This is a great idea!!! Even if they the new company make bad decisions, how worse can this game get anyway? Stg made huge mistakes even after 3 years, I would be pretty happy if they sold it to a company who would actually care for it instead of just pretending and "saying" they loved us. If you love us, please show us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[Jig]

This is a great idea!!! Even if they the new company make bad decisions, how worse can this game get anyway? Stg made huge mistakes even after 3 years, I would be pretty happy if they sold it to a company who would actually care for it instead of just pretending and "saying" they loved us. If you love us, please show us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

This game would be a lot worse if they change anything from what sts already have

[Suchislife]

Mhm that can be true but at least after time they will learn and fix things up and actually give PL some attentiob


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[Jig]

Mhm that can be true but at least after time they will learn and fix things up and actually give PL some attentiob


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

Incorrect, depends on who's buying, even if they did fix it, still won't be the same game is it used to be :(

[Burningdex]

i swear... if this game dies i not going to be happy nand i will ask for my money back

[Doodlebeast]

Pl players faith in STG = 7.45/100

[Jig]

Pl players faith in STG = 7.45/100

Nope

[programmed]

I doubt they would sell PL and I wouldn't want them to. So what if they aren't fixed on PL right now. They were for what like 3 years? Let AL have their turn at making them the money they need to keep PL running. Besides, without STS PL might never be the same again. If they were to sell it who's to say PL wouldn't be completely changed? Other companies aren't going to have the same design team and whatnot and they wouldn't think the same way STS does. Just stop making all these threads about PL and its end. STS has said many times that without AL they wouldn't have the money to keep PL around. They are using AL as their money maker because its new and has more potential right now because more can be done with it since it doesn't run on the older programs like PL does. Please just stop with the threads about stuff like the end of PL and such. I'm sure they will come back to us soon. Didn't a dev say a little while ago that they called a meeting about what they can do with PL? That means they are planning something with PL and we should wait and see what it is but you have to be patient and it will come.

[Jig]

I doubt they would sell PL and I wouldn't want them to. So what if they aren't fixed on PL right now. They were for what like 3 years? Let AL have their turn at making them the money they need to keep PL running. Besides, without STS PL might never be the same again. If they were to sell it who's to say PL wouldn't be completely changed? Other companies aren't going to have the same design team and whatnot and they wouldn't think the same way STS does. Just stop making all these threads about PL and its end. STS has said many times that without AL they wouldn't have the money to keep PL around. They are using AL as their money maker because its new and has more potential right now because more can be done with it since it doesn't run on the older programs like PL does. Please just stop with the threads about stuff like the end of PL and such. I'm sure they will come back to us soon. Didn't a dev say a little while ago that they called a meeting about what they can do with PL? That means they are planning something with PL and we should wait and see what it is but you have to be patient and it will come.

Thanks, I don't have the patience to type like you did, remind me to thank your post when I have one :D

[Ijooo]

I agree with your points regarding PL as a game but i dont agree with selling it. I hope the dev can read this thread. if they make AL by adopting PL they can also try to adopt to AL to use PL to have more funds for them. If the crates in AL gives them more sale why not try it to PL so that sales can increase. I hope the statements that are posted above will be put into consideration.

Thank you and Good day!

[Impact]

Guys give sts a break, their just doing what every other company would, spend most of their time on their best game, ill just say though the events in all the othe legends games need improvement not just pl

[Caiahar]

Guys give sts a break, their just doing what every other company would, spend most of their time on their best game, ill just say though the events in all the othe legends games need improvement not just pl
Didn't we give StG their break for ONE YEAR o_O?

[Roberto077]

The answer is no. Case closed.

[Samhayne]

Hey guys,

You know that I love you all for your passion and enthusiasm for Pocket Legends.

I know that the below is probably "too long, didn't read" and that I won't make you happy because I won't promise a new expansion for Pocket Legends. Sorry.

The fact is we're not in this just for the money, just for a job. I think that very few are in gaming for the $$. Their are a lot more lucrative industries if money is what you are after. As for Spacetime, I can say with some authority that we're in it because it is our passion and we couldn't see ourselves doing anything else.

As for running a successful business, yeah, that is hard. If you don't know about that, well then don't throw stones, ok? Learn a bit about what it takes to run a business and then come back and let's chat, thanks :) We're a small shop, doing ok for now largely because of the hit that Arcane Legends is and our latest Battle games.

As for selling Pocket Legends, honestly, it's all theory, because honestly few would even be interested and like I said, we'd have to do a lot of work to make it something that is even sellable. Even if we could package it up where someone would want to buy it who wanted to aggressively develop it like you want it to be - why would we create a competitor for Arcane Legends?

As others in this thread have brought up, you should be thankful for the success of Arcane Legends and the Battle Games because without them (and the learning that we gained from Star and Dark) we wouldn't even have had Arcane. I know that we're talking about Pocket Legends right now, but really, Arcane is its spiritual successor. Pocket is a great game and thousands of people have fun with it every day. But going back to Arcane, 100's of thousands enjoy that game daily. The work and cost to make an expansion for PL is about the same (honestly, even more because of the state of it) than making an AL expansion. As a small shop (we're under 40 people folks - many of those are CS/QA/HR and not the people that make what you want) we just can't do everything.

Life is full of hard decisions. Every quarterly planning I ache personally at our inability to put together full on rockin' expansions for PL (and SL and DL). I know that people want them. But - we are for AL which is where the vast majority of our fans are and I feel great about the stuff that we are able to make. Arcane Legends winning accolades for 2013 is a big testament to what we are able to do. We plan to keep that momentum going for as long as we can.

As I started off, I love you guys for your dedication and passion for Pocket Legends. Thanks.



PS. Also, thanks for keeping the conversation friendly. We're people too and being mean about the hard choices we have make doesn't make a continuing conversation easy.

[Ijooo]

Just an idea, if the devs cannot think of other expansion why not recycle some episode that promotes quest. Many threads i read are expressing excitement with AO and humania episodes. Players are asking for new cap and expansion just to have elite rings (like me) also for fox and rhino. So it will be better for us newbie players if we can have a chance to have some.

Thank you and Good day!

[saool]

Hey guys,

You know that I love you all for your passion and enthusiasm for Pocket Legends.

I know that the below is probably "too long, didn't read" and that I won't make you happy because I won't promise a new expansion for Pocket Legends. Sorry.

The fact is we're not in this just for the money, just for a job. I think that very few are in gaming for the $$. Their are a lot more lucrative industries if money is what you are after. As for Spacetime, I can say with some authority that we're in it because it is our passion and we couldn't see ourselves doing anything else.

As for running a successful business, yeah, that is hard. If you don't know about that, well then don't throw stones, ok? Learn a bit about what it takes to run a business and then come back and let's chat, thanks :) We're a small shop, doing ok for now largely because of the hit that Arcane Legends is and our latest Battle games.

As for selling Pocket Legends, honestly, it's all theory, because honestly few would even be interested and like I said, we'd have to do a lot of work to make it something that is even sellable. Even if we could package it up where someone would want to buy it who wanted to aggressively develop it like you want it to be - why would we create a competitor for Arcane Legends?

As others in this thread have brought up, you should be thankful for the success of Arcane Legends and the Battle Games because without them (and the learning that we gained from Star and Dark) we wouldn't even have had Arcane. I know that we're talking about Pocket Legends right now, but really, Arcane is its spiritual successor. Pocket is a great game and thousands of people have fun with it every day. But going back to Arcane, 100's of thousands enjoy that game daily. The work and cost to make an expansion for PL is about the same (honestly, even more because of the state of it) than making an AL expansion. As a small shop (we're under 40 people folks - many of those are CS/QA/HR and not the people that make what you want) we just can't do everything.

Life is full of hard decisions. Every quarterly planning I ache personally at our inability to put together full on rockin' expansions for PL (and SL and DL). I know that people want them. But - we are for AL which is where the vast majority of our fans are and I feel great about the stuff that we are able to make. Arcane Legends winning accolades for 2013 is a big testament to what we are able to do. We plan to keep that momentum going for as long as we can.

As I started off, I love you guys for your dedication and passion for Pocket Legends. Thanks.



PS. Also, thanks for keeping the conversation friendly. We're people too and being mean about the hard choices we have make doesn't make a continuing conversation easy.

I actually read everything that you wrote, and honestly I understand where you're coming from with the whole 100's of thousand million hundred thousand players that play AL and all...but I'm sure you guys can work on something even if it's adding crafted sets and such to the existing cap in PL. I'm still a pretty active player, but I've moved on to almost strictly playing gaming consoles, and spending my money on that then PL. The only true thing about AL that IMO makes it even slightly better would be the graphics.

[aav5224]

i say there are NO MORE GAMES!

[Samhayne]

i say there are NO MORE GAMES!

That's just being silly.

If you have ever worked in a retail environment, you'll know that customers are always looking for the latest and greatest. New is cool. Just hang out for a bit in a GameStop store and you'll hear people ask, "So, what's new?"

To reiterate, if we hadn't learned from Star and Dark and built Arcane, Spacetime likely wouldn't be around right now (at least not in it's current incarnation - that includes Pocket Legends running).

We will continue to build new games because that's the path to growth. We know this from having done it. I know you are coming from the viewpoint of a Pocket Legends afficiando, so I completely understand your feeling that new games are taking away from the game you want to see developed - but again, if we don't grow, we won't thrive.

Long way of saying, sorry, but there will be more new games.

As always, thanks for your enthusiasm for Pocket Legends. Lots of <3 to you.

[GymClassHeroe]

Samhayne, I read your posts in this thread. My only question is: In a summary what you mean is that for now, there will be no more expansions since most attention goes to AL? And if that is so, it means that in the near future and maybe later than that, Pl will begin to grow-develop again?

I don't wanna judge STS but from the business side of things, in order to make customers buy a product or playing a game in our case, shouldn't there be something new added on? Even something pretty small like a very slow progress in the game?

We all love PL and most of us play this game for years buying platinum or not. I personally ,and I believe most people in PL do, want to stick to this game because the whole concept of PL fulfills our needs as a game. Though keeping PL kind of inactive (as long as we are talking about development of it) will be a mistake that will make many people quit. :/

[for the lulz]

i wanna be a successful computer person and buy pl ...i mean if i cud afford to buy sts i wud still have ppl work on al and others but pl is the baby . btw how much is sts worth? like if u buy them out how much does it cost ? i have 12 dollars and my mom might loan me another 12 updat: lvl1 is giving me another 12 dollars , cmon we got this , 27k here we come

$$27k according to this site http://www.freewebsitereport.org/www.spacetimestudios.com

[Oldcoot]

@sam, thanks for the feedback. I wish we could speak face to face because I have trouble expressing myself in this medium but I'll try. I have owned and operated a small construction business for the last 20 years and it seams your not taking care of your repeat customers for the search of new costumers. Im good at building houses not typing so I'll put it like this, you must have a good foundation or the rest you build on it will crumble.

[for the lulz]

@sam, thanks for the feedback. I wish we could speak face to face because I have trouble expressing myself in this medium but I'll try. I have owned and operated a small construction business for the last 20 years and it seams your not taking care of your repeat customers for the search of new costumers. Im good at building houses not typing so I'll put it like this, you must have a good foundation or the rest you build on it will crumble.
but they are making money of al , i mean soon sam will be out with the other devs in their rolls royces bling bling lots of swags . sts will surely amount to something HUGELY successful , by asking them to spend time developing pl for us when they can make much more by putting that time into the hit game al they wud be sacrifising their own future. i love pl but if i was a dev id work on al too .
but u never know , maybe if they made alot of money of al they cud hire new younger nub programmers to work on pl , then we cud all have a thriving community .
personally i hope al does really well , i hope u guys make alot of money

[Roberto077]

That's just being silly.

If you have ever worked in a retail environment, you'll know that customers are always looking for the latest and greatest. New is cool. Just hang out for a bit in a GameStop store and you'll hear people ask, "So, what's new?"

To reiterate, if we hadn't learned from Star and Dark and built Arcane, Spacetime likely wouldn't be around right now (at least not in it's current incarnation - that includes Pocket Legends running).

We will continue to build new games because that's the path to growth. We know this from having done it. I know you are coming from the viewpoint of a Pocket Legends afficiando, so I completely understand your feeling that new games are taking away from the game you want to see developed - but again, if we don't grow, we won't thrive.

Long way of saying, sorry, but there will be more new games.

As always, thanks for your enthusiasm for Pocket Legends. Lots of <3 to you.

Do you think we will be seeing any new events like the infested deck or forgotten treasure events? Just little week long extravaganzas?

[for the lulz]

Do you think we will be seeing any new events like the infested deck or forgotten treasure events? Just little week long extravaganzas?

pls no forg event , il be sad

[Sprout]

Let's see.. AL is doing really well, I wouldn't ever give up on that. But PL has huge potential, in my opinion more than AL, you were clever when you said that if you sold the game to someone who wants to develop the game, would cause competition. But as for the fact that you are making a new game, before even adding a small update on one of these games.. Isn't okay, at all. That's like a punch to the face to loyal players that have spent a lot of money on this game, some even hundreds of dollars. There's like a bazillion little updates that can be done to make players satisfied with this game that don't require a lot of coding, but for now we are doing exact same things for over 12 months now. And during this Christmas time, the game is completely dead. PL>AL anytime. As time goes, you will notice it.

[Roberto077]

pls no forg event , il be sad

The event was fun, the items were cool, the only bad thing was the insane stats for the items. I'd actually like to see a more balanced forgotten event with different items (so the current ones don't loose value).

[LEVEL ONE]

The event was fun, the items were cool, the only bad thing was the insane stats for the items. I'd actually like to see a more balanced forgotten event with different items (so the current ones don't loose value).

Thats not a bad idea at all... Maybe 1h weapons this time? With gem shields, bracers and wings...

[Fusionstrike]

That's just being silly.

If you have ever worked in a retail environment, you'll know that customers are always looking for the latest and greatest. New is cool. Just hang out for a bit in a GameStop store and you'll hear people ask, "So, what's new?"

To reiterate, if we hadn't learned from Star and Dark and built Arcane, Spacetime likely wouldn't be around right now (at least not in it's current incarnation - that includes Pocket Legends running).

We will continue to build new games because that's the path to growth. We know this from having done it. I know you are coming from the viewpoint of a Pocket Legends afficiando, so I completely understand your feeling that new games are taking away from the game you want to see developed - but again, if we don't grow, we won't thrive.

Long way of saying, sorry, but there will be more new games.

As always, thanks for your enthusiasm for Pocket Legends. Lots of <3 to you.

This is where I always get hung up on your strategy at STS. You feel like you have to keep building new games because that's what the public demands. This has been stated over and over, along with the claim that without AL the company would have failed. People seem to just agree because someone from STS said it, but I say it's far from an established fact. I say this because I can give you one humongous counter-example: WoW.

World of Warcraft has been chugging along for 10 years. It is the undisputed leader of its category. It has a community of 10s of millions, and somehow it has managed to grow and advance its position without once creating a "new game". They've expanded, revamped, brought in many new changes, etc. The game today is very different from where it started out. But at no point did they close down the old game and make a new one. They never left their established community behind and forced them to start over on "WoW 2". But that's what you guys have done over and over, as you've attempted to meet this supposed "demand for something new".

What you could have done instead is carried the community forward. If AL had been a major revamp of PL, which in many ways it was, but one that the community could follow along in, it would have been an entirely different situation. Instead of choosing between investing time in your loyal PL community OR the new people in AL, you could have had both. The heartache for those playing PL, DL, SL etc is that you guys walked away, leaving a loyal player base stranded but unwilling to allow their investment to end. And it is an investment: people love these games because of what they put into it, so they don't want to have to walk away from that.

I know you guys have your strategy, and no amount of forum posts is going to change that. But I can't just let you get away with saying "we have to put out new things or we'll die". It's clearly the strategy you've chosen to take, but it's also just as clearly not the only strategy there is, even though you keep claiming so. And all I have to do is point to WoW to prove that it is possible to advance, grow, bring in new customer and not abandon the old ones in the process. Just because you chose a different path doesn't mean the other one doesn't exist.

[Justg]

I appreciate your speculations on what you think our business direction should be, but it really does not hold water with reality.

WoW was (and still is) an anomaly, but more than that it is a PC subscription-based game. The mobile market is vastly different and rapidly evolving every day. And video games are a notoriously difficult business in general.

I think we've done pretty good in this environment.

So we'll do our best to run a good business and provide you with more free games. We'll also try to support our older games as much as we can.

[programmed]

Thanks, I don't have the patience to type like you did, remind me to thank your post when I have one :D

It didn't take patience. I actually rushed through it not having much time before I had to leave for school and it took only like 3 minutes. If I wanted to I could've typed more than a page long and maybe 4 but then no one would even read that haha.

[quantionus]

Pl is still best of all but some nice maps and elite items,vanities and contests that are held by sts would be awesome for PL. In my opinion , just an opinion , instead of making new games there you should focus more on the old games however i know how hard your job is (some say its not) i dont have a right to speak against what you do (did). So at all , at least dont forget the PL players pls :).
I appreciate your job and looking forward to see more stuff in PL. Ty and good luck :D

[Oldcoot]

Thank you fusionstrike

Edit: I would pay a subscription fee if it went to development of pl, I feel my plat purchases should have done that instead of funding your next big game that I don't want to play

[Eearay]

I think that sts could at least update PL's graphics and quality of game to match newer technology and standards, but STS was the company that started, designed, and dreamed up the game we love, and who better than STS could further that. Imagine the work that went into PL, STS's first mmo, and the pride they hold in its success. How is it fair that we are suddenly asking them to give up Pl to another developer.

Although on the other hand PL is losing some of its valued players and that is partially due to lack of attention

[Samhayne]

I think that sts could at least update PL's graphics and quality of game to match newer technology and standards, but STS was the company that started, designed, and dreamed up the game we love, and who better than STS could further that. Imagine the work that went into PL, STS's first mmo, and the pride they hold in its success. How is it fair that we are suddenly asking them to give up Pl to another developer.

Although on the other hand PL is losing some of its valued players and that is partially due to lack of attention

We did that - it's called Arcane Legends :) Really, in the time it would take to update PL's graphics, we could build a new game. Just keepin' it real.


@sam, thanks for the feedback. I wish we could speak face to face because I have trouble expressing myself in this medium but I'll try. I have owned and operated a small construction business for the last 20 years and it seams your not taking care of your repeat customers for the search of new costumers. Im good at building houses not typing so I'll put it like this, you must have a good foundation or the rest you build on it will crumble.

Yeah, maybe we should get on a Google Hangout or Skype call someday, it would be great to chat. Sorry to keep bringing things back to Arcane Legends, but as a reminder the vast majority of our current daily players are playing that or one of our new Battle Games. So we are continuing to service our customers as best we can. Also, we do continue to do regular events in Pocket (and Star and Dark). We do what we can.

[XghostzX]

This is all incredibly insightful feedback - thank you Sam and Gary.

Going back to what Fusion said, I think, and I'm saying this out of my heart because of the kind of people you are and not from a PL stand point, that your company should challenge yourself to make AL that one immense game similar to WoW. I'm only saying this because you guys have probably the best community I've ever seen in an MMO and that's something you should be proud of - you provide entertainment and a sense of community for literally thousands of people each day. Truly, it's an incredible thing.

It would be cool to see you guys take this "moment" with AL and try to make it that big game. Because pretty soon game ideas start to run out, then you could potentially lose your core community base - Ah, I'm having trouble conveying these words similar to OldCoot. As a founder of PL, the dedication you put into your community is astounding. I wish you could have seen the community you formed just 2 years back during the 56 cap, I made so many "friends" in a game that I'd never thought I'd ever be hooked on. Not only was the game the best of the best, but I could enjoy with an awesome group of guys. That was my description of a perfect MMORPG which unfortunately faded away.

I'll always have my passion for Pocket Legends so I apologize for the occasional posts of me ranting - I mean c'mon, that's just a natural feeling for any customer. But you guys are doing a great job giving your perspective and as you continue doing this for us, you'll maintain a stable community. So another word of advice: Don't let your community down in AL. Don't make them feel like they have wasted their time. Keep in touch with them as you are, and AL can have that potential to be the one MMO. Learn from PL because I'd hate seeing you guys as a company steer in the wrong direction. Fusionstrike said it already, the strategy that you guys have taken has many potential risks.

IF I were to give the company one challenge, it would be to create a game/MMORPG that would be the one game that allows you guys to sit back, relax, and watch the revenue come in and allow to expand on other things. I feel it's time we've stopped sorrowing over "PL's demise". But hey, Thomas Jefferson once said, "I like the dreams of the future better than the history of the past."

[Fusionstrike]

I appreciate your speculations on what you think our business direction should be, but it really does not hold water with reality.

WoW was (and still is) an anomaly, but more than that it is a PC subscription-based game. The mobile market is vastly different and rapidly evolving every day. And video games are a notoriously difficult business in general.

I think we've done pretty good in this environment.

So we'll do our best to run a good business and provide you with more free games. We'll also try to support our older games as much as we can.

First, I'd like to commend you and the rest of the dev team for your level of engagement with the community. Although it has dropped off for PL from what it used to be, you've in general remained more responsive than you had to and have been willing to level with us, even when the truth has been painful. I consider your continued willingness to engage with the communities of all your games a definite strength of STS. It's clearly something you care about since you're willing to have tough discussions about uncomfortable topics. Kudos to STS for sticking with this value even when things get rocky.

As to your specific response, I completely agree that the gaming industry is particularly competitive and tricky to navigate. Technology in general and gaming in particular change very quickly, so you're always having to adjust to find the way forward. And mobile gaming like what you're doing is a much younger field, making it that much harder to keep your footing.

However, you dismiss (without proof) my viewpoint as not holding water. To my specific example of WoW, you dismiss it (again without proof) as an anomaly. All I can say is, of course it's an anomaly. Any best-in-class company or product is by definition an anomaly, because it's having far more success than any of the competition. No other company or product has been able to replicate or threaten it (yet). That's what an anomaly is. This does not in any way invalidate it as an example of what is possible in its industry. Had you pointed out some specific, special condition that catapulted WoW to its current position but that the competition is unable to replicate, then it would be fair to argue against it as a valid comparison.

It's true that WoW operates on a PC, which has specific challenges of its own, and that mobile presents its own challenges not faced on a PC. However, there are quite a lot of similarities in how all MMOs (and games in general for that matter) operate, which makes it still a fair example. WoW has faced, for example, a continuously-changing hardware environment, competitors eagerly trying to be better and steal their customers away, the need to keep up with technology changes to remain relevant, continuously trying to remain attractive to new customers while keeping the old ones happy and engaged, adding new and fresh spins to a game with a lot of history both in the community and a codebase that gets harder to maintain with age, and numerous other, similar challenges of games in general and MMOs in particular.

Somehow, WoW managed to come through all this not only intact, but wildly successful. It is the undisputed leader in its field. There must have been many times along the way that it would have been easier if they had just started over with "WoW 2.0", closing down the old game and building a new one from scratch incorporating all the lessons learned along the way. But they didn't do that. And it is my assertion that maintaining continuity of community is the biggest factor in its undeniable success. That all its customers continue to benefit from a continually supported and expanded game experience is an advantage that's hard to overstate.

And let's not forget that WoW wasn't just selling into an established market either. It had to innovate to become what it is today, introducing the MMO genre to a far wider consumer base than had ever existed before. Although other MMOs had come before it, WoW revolutionized the space with what it did. In that way, it's very similar to what STS has done in mobile. You guys have these other MMO examples to draw from, but no established path for success in mobile gaming. You had to take that on, and have been very successful at it. Even now, few mobile MMOs compete with the engagement and depth of STS titles. STS certainly deserves credit for what it's done for mobile gaming, and it's been a hard trail to blaze.

I don't ascribe any malice to the decisions of how STS has navigated its path forward. You've made choices along the way, ones that you certainly felt were in the best interest of the company's progression. And it has required doing so with imperfect information and the need to react to a fast-changing environment. Certainly it has been a difficult road to travel. I just can't see how there was literally no other way forward than to move away from an established and successful game, given how damaging it is to break customer continuity, especially in MMOs. One of the consequences of that choice is vocal customer dissatisfaction, which we've seen plenty of, and that's just the cost of doing business this way. It must be frustrating to have made this choice "for our own good", since you've stated repeatedly that the company could not have survived otherwise, and still hear negative comments from the community, which inevitably must seem incredibly ungrateful. Maybe there's something you could say that shows why this strategy was the only viable one. I'm listening and willing to change my mind when presented with contrary evidence. But so far I have seen none, and as a result I just can't get myself to agree that this was the only way forward. It's a shame, because I wish I could come around and be wholly supportive of a company that's done so much I've appreciated over the years.

[Justg]

Edit, I'd like to apologize for the tone of my earlier response. This is such a tough issue for us I get defensive sometimes. PL has our hearts and souls in in. But there are undeniable (to us) business reasons that have led us to continue to expand our focus. So discussions about how we could do better with it are painful to me. We all want to do more for PL.

I promise you this: We will always look for ways to support our older games, and we will always try to infuse in to our new ones the same spirit that spawned PL.

[Ijooo]

I think if they make an expansion and update. The players will increase in pl. In my opinion, the reason why veteran players and others left PL and joined AL bec of lack of updates.

[Oldcoot]

Thank you for that promise G an that will keep me playing an waiting

[Extreme]

Edit, I'd like to apologize for the tone of my earlier response. This is such a tough issue for us I get defensive sometimes. PL has our hearts and souls in in. But there are undeniable (to us) business reasons that have led us to continue to expand our focus. So discussions about how we could do better with it are painful to me. We all want to do more for PL.

I promise you this: We will always look for ways to support our older games, and we will always try to infuse in to our new ones the same spirit that spawned PL.

Thank you for that promise.

[Jig]

Al is just a beautiful game admit it guys, go play it >.< btw wow fusion you can write some paragraphs >.<

[fourleaf]

Edit, I'd like to apologize for the tone of my earlier response. This is such a tough issue for us I get defensive sometimes. PL has our hearts and souls in in. But there are undeniable (to us) business reasons that have led us to continue to expand our focus. So discussions about how we could do better with it are painful to me. We all want to do more for PL.

I promise you this: We will always look for ways to support our older games, and we will always try to infuse in to our new ones the same spirit that spawned PL.
Thanks for re-opening the thread, and again I would like to thank you and Sam for your quick and very explanatory posts here. I don't agree about everything with you as can be expected, I am sure you guys are very tight budgetted for time especially.

Not gonna argue the points now; would simply waste more time.

Thanks again for the great thread and feedback!

[Suchislife]

Al is apparently a pay-to-win. And I will be waiting on the promise! If it ever comes.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[ReligionIsABarrier]

Edit, I'd like to apologize for the tone of my earlier response. This is such a tough issue for us I get defensive sometimes. PL has our hearts and souls in in. But there are undeniable (to us) business reasons that have led us to continue to expand our focus. So discussions about how we could do better with it are painful to me. We all want to do more for PL.

I promise you this: We will always look for ways to support our older games, and we will always try to infuse in to our new ones the same spirit that spawned PL.

An you simply just earned my respect. Ill wait any length of time bro, thanks for that promise.

[ReligionIsABarrier]

Edit, I'd like to apologize for the tone of my earlier response. This is such a tough issue for us I get defensive sometimes. PL has our hearts and souls in in. But there are undeniable (to us) business reasons that have led us to continue to expand our focus. So discussions about how we could do better with it are painful to me. We all want to do more for PL.

I promise you this: We will always look for ways to support our older games, and we will always try to infuse in to our new ones the same spirit that spawned PL.

I also apologize for the way i reacted to you last night. But i have put 1000+ dollars into PL on different accounts., an watched it drop as so many other people have, i have understand where you were getting at, haha, but for a grand, an knowing PL is slowly declining, you guys could always give me a maxed character on AL, that maybe id give AL another run haha.

[Deadsoldiers]

Well I have played this game for a real real long time, i started playing a few months after it started, but now i just log in every few days because theres nothing new happening. A few days after blacksmoke came out i grinded from level 1 to 76 within 10days. i played a lot each day and I spent quiet some money on the Game. But now after a LOONG time of no-new updates, renaming old stuff and repeating events that noone really cares about, for example this winter fest in Pl i dont really think that there was something to spent any plat on especially not on runs since the reward was worth like 5k gold in the end. But i also dont think that selling Pl is an option. 1. It would be hard to sell it as sam said 2. as many mentioned we dont know if the company that buys it would do more than stg does by just letting Pl kill himself and try to dry out the last money that the customers are willing to spent. Thats just my opinion tho.

[Zeus]

Al is apparently a pay-to-win. And I will be waiting on the promise! If it ever comes.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

I've spent 20k platinum and very very very little of my gold has come from the pay to win aspect. You can pay, yes, but there is a very very very very very rare chance that you're going to win due to paying.

[Nagin]

Plz selll sl to gameloft

[Jig]

Lmao ohhhh whyyyy make this threaddddd

[Suentous PO]

Having checked out other games and forums I just wanted to say thx to Sam and G for putting their necks out to be so honest with us, even if we disagree or misunderstand sometimes. Just trying to have this dialog with us is appreciated.
And to all who know how to keep it civil, GG.

[Roberto077]

Plz selll sl to gameloft

NOOOOOO! THAT'S GUARANTEED 0 UPDATES OF CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!

Seriously, horrible idea.

[Freobr]

Ok AL makes a lot of money, I'm not telling you to quit that. But the fact that you haven't made an update for over 12 months and making new games during that time and sayin' you cannot afford any updates even the small ones that can make a huge difference, that is like a slap in the freaking face to all the loyal players.

All I gotta say ^

[Justg]

Ok AL makes a lot of money, I'm not telling you to quit that. But the fact that you haven't made an update for over 12 months and making new games during that time and sayin' you cannot afford any updates even the small ones that can make a huge difference, that is like a slap to the freaking face to all the loyal players.

All I gotta say ^

This is why this is such a painful conversation. We love this game more than you do. We do updates when we can (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114961-PL-Balance-after-the-Great-Nerf-of-2013) but they are quickly forgotten. We also are running a smart business. Which keeps all our games running. So your perceived "slap in the face" is actually us doing right by you and keeping the games running. Weird, no? And definitely painful for us here. But we love and respect you guys, which is why we continue to try and keep you up on why we do the things we do.

[Zeus]

This is why this is such a painful conversation. We love this game more than you do. We do updates when we can (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114961-PL-Balance-after-the-Great-Nerf-of-2013) but they are quickly forgotten. We also are running a smart business. Which keeps all our games running. So your perceived "slap in the face" is actually us doing right by you and keeping the games running. Weird, no? And definitely painful for us here. But we love and respect you guys, which is why we continue to try and keep you up on why we do the things we do.

Gary, check this out?

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?132923-A-possible-solution-to-PL-Players-(Free-Characters)

[Roberto077]

Gary, check this out?

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?132923-A-possible-solution-to-PL-Players-(Free-Characters)

Do it. I recommend it.

[Freobr]

This is why this is such a painful conversation. We love this game more than you do. We do updates when we can (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114961-PL-Balance-after-the-Great-Nerf-of-2013) but they are quickly forgotten. We also are running a smart business. Which keeps all our games running. So your perceived "slap in the face" is actually us doing right by you and keeping the games running. Weird, no? And definitely painful for us here. But we love and respect you guys, which is why we continue to try and keep you up on why we do the things we do.

You have to make an update that will make people play for a long time... I have thought for this for a while and I thought it would be absolutely awesome if you could work on your character more... So what I would suggest is make new achievements where you get the old elite stuff from. For example, completing all the quests you get the old MF armor (maybe orange color for this one). If you do 100k kills on your character you get a ring similar to the 3pc (maybe a little weaker and different sparkles. 50k for a 2pc one. Then if you have a 3pc character maybe you get 4pc for doing 100k kills on your character.. Things like that I think would be a lot fun in my opinion. I have a 3pc character myself.. I think there can be a lot opinions about this but I think this is something you could very well consider. Would make a lot people happy.. I think. If there's something bad it would cause that I've missed you can tell me?

[imxoriginal]

This is why this is such a painful conversation. We love this game more than you do. We do updates when we can (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114961-PL-Balance-after-the-Great-Nerf-of-2013) but they are quickly forgotten. We also are running a smart business. Which keeps all our games running. So your perceived "slap in the face" is actually us doing right by you and keeping the games running. Weird, no? And definitely painful for us here. But we love and respect you guys, which is why we continue to try and keep you up on why we do the things we do.
Justg,
Would you mind taking a look at this? It's a constructive thread and has ways you can help us without spending any money. You just have to fix stats in game and adjust some things. Thanks for taking the time to read this!
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?132705-Time-For-A-New-Era-Help-in-the-quest-to-restore-PVP

[Azataso]

AL is currently making money because of locked crates mostly and they work on that.

Locked crates? Ah ha! Thats the solution!
A game called Team Fortress 2 also uses locked crates to make money, in fact, they make a lot, considering Team Fortress 2 has been out since 2007. What they do is they have crates that drop in-game, and require keys, which you buy from the store, to open them. You have a chance to receive one item listed in its contents, but if you are really lucky, you might get a rare "unusual" which everyone desires. Unusual in TF2= Vanities in PL except the unusuals are less common. I think that the developers of STG can implement this system into their games :)


Website to teamfortress2: www.teamfortress.com

[Cheenivie]

This is why this is such a painful conversation. We love this game more than you do. We do updates when we can (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114961-PL-Balance-after-the-Great-Nerf-of-2013) but they are quickly forgotten. We also are running a smart business. Which keeps all our games running. So your perceived "slap in the face" is actually us doing right by you and keeping the games running. Weird, no? And definitely painful for us here. But we love and respect you guys, which is why we continue to try and keep you up on why we do the things we do.

What ever happened to part 2 of the great nerf? :/

[Samhayne]

To come back to the point about Pocket Legends potential, I love that you guys love the game. I can see from your viewpoint that anything and everything should be done for Pocket Legends. We have. We cranked _hard_ on Pocket. TV commercial. Lots and lots of hard work, refinements and expansions. New classes witha big PR push. After years we know what Pocket does. I hope that you guys can see that.

Yes, nothing is certain in the future, but when you have gone around the track a few times, you get to know how it goes.

Again, we are a small shop trying to do right by as many of our fans as we can. Thanks, as always for playing our games and you fervor for Pocket Legends.

[Samhayne]

Justg,
Would you mind taking a look at this? It's a constructive thread and has ways you can help us without spending any money. You just have to fix stats in game and adjust some things. Thanks for taking the time to read this!
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?132705-Time-For-A-New-Era-Help-in-the-quest-to-restore-PVP

We have read that thread. It is a great one and points out a big issue with Pocket - balance is all over the map. I am not saying we won't do more with class balance, but I will say that it is no small task. There is a reason that you don't find the kinds of numbers like that in AL. Regen is crazy, hit % and dodge can get crazy high. Crit can go through the roof. 4x elixirs. Taking on "fixing" that could be quite the rabbit hole, depending on how you tackle it.

Love you all and mean it. Will check back in the morning, but right now gwtting the "what are you doing typing on your phone" look from my better half :)

[fourleaf]

We have read that thread. It is a great one and points out a big issue with Pocket - balance is all over the map. I am not saying we won't do more with class balance, but I will say that it is no small task. There is a reason that you don't find the kinds of numbers like that in AL. Regen is crazy, hit % and dodge can get crazy high. Crit can go through the roof. 4x elixirs. Taking on "fixing" that could be quite the rabbit hole, depending on how you tackle it.

Love you all and mean it. Will check back in the morning, but right now gwtting the "what are you doing typing on your phone" look from my better half :)
Possible a simple solution to crazy crit dmg is to make it instead of doing double the regular damage, crits could just do 130% standard dmg. That shouldn't take long to change
another possibility would be to make debuffs like hellscream/blinding shot/weakness become hit and crit debuffs.

as for dodge would it be possible to:
1. only be able to dodge damage from auto attacks
or
2. only be able to dodge damage(debuffs/pushback/pull/stuns would still take effect)


Rather than having to nerf the stats on gear, reworking mechanics may be simpler.

[IGN Storm]

We have read that thread. It is a great one and points out a big issue with Pocket - balance is all over the map. I am not saying we won't do more with class balance, but I will say that it is no small task. There is a reason that you don't find the kinds of numbers like that in AL. Regen is crazy, hit % and dodge can get crazy high. Crit can go through the roof. 4x elixirs. Taking on "fixing" that could be quite the rabbit hole, depending on how you tackle it.

Love you all and mean it. Will check back in the morning, but right now gwtting the "what are you doing typing on your phone" look from my better half :)

Can you explain why balancing is "no small task"? I think changing a few numbers is fairly easy, though I am very likely to be wrong. We, the players, have (IMO) a better sense of balance than you guys and can help come up with the numbers. All you have to do is take that and work it into the game. Heck we can even come up with Stats and Designs for the gear and npcs for the next campaign, kind of like the Rockin Retro and Humania Crafted weapon contest.

[Jig]

Can you explain why balancing is "no small task"? I think changing a few numbers is fairly easy, though I am very likely to be wrong. We, the players, have (IMO) a better sense of balance than you guys and can help come up with the numbers. All you have to do is take that and work it into the game. Heck we can even come up with Stats and Designs for the gear and npcs for the next campaign, kind of like the Rockin Retro and Humania Crafted weapon contest.

Who's volunteering ? Anyone? Lol

[jiu]

NOOOOOO! THAT'S GUARANTEED 0 UPDATES OF CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!

Seriously, horrible idea.

Glu Mobile is another excellent studio

[Doodlebeast]

Glu Mobile is another excellent studio

Horrible. No way. The fact that they made a pixel weapon selling for 500 USD told me that PL wouldn't end up not pay to win at all.

[Samhayne]

Can you explain why balancing is "no small task"? I think changing a few numbers is fairly easy, though I am very likely to be wrong. We, the players, have (IMO) a better sense of balance than you guys and can help come up with the numbers. All you have to do is take that and work it into the game. Heck we can even come up with Stats and Designs for the gear and npcs for the next campaign, kind of like the Rockin Retro and Humania Crafted weapon contest.

If we take it small and go step by step with things that are just number changes, sure that is do-able. If you want to take big swings that involve reworking client and server functionality, then you are looking at man weeks or months of work.

As for the design of new content, that is easy. You or I can kick out ideas that write themselves (A dark knight has raised an army of rabid wolves and trolls and seeks to overthrow Alterra!) It is the actual implementation of that content that is pretty laborous. It is not procedurally generated. It is all hand crafted. New art is also a big chunk of work.

But back to balance, it is something we can keep poking at, especially if we can keep the scope measured and not sweeping.

Good discussion guys, lets keep it friendly and focused and we can get to some good action items that we can turn around.

[Roberto077]

Glu Mobile is another excellent studio

I'm fine with them.

[XghostzX]

This is a very engaging and informative thread... thanks for coping with us STS. Just as you guys are having difficult with decisions as a small business, it is difficult being a customer where we spent time/money on for lots of time. All it is.

[lightzone]

Wow... this is awesome! Love this discussion.

I'm not going to post any of my own opinions because everyone has already taken the words out of my mouth :)

[Jig]

If we take it small and go step by step with things that are just number changes, sure that is do-able. If you want to take big swings that involve reworking client and server functionality, then you are looking at man weeks or months of work.

As for the design of new content, that is easy. You or I can kick out ideas that write themselves (A dark knight has raised an army of rabid wolves and trolls and seeks to overthrow Alterra!) It is the actual implementation of that content that is pretty laborous. It is not procedurally generated. It is all hand crafted. New art is also a big chunk of work.

But back to balance, it is something we can keep poking at, especially if we can keep the scope measured and not sweeping.

Good discussion guys, lets keep it friendly and focused and we can get to some good action items that we can turn around.


If small step by steps is your only way then fine, rather have a fixed game then a messy one in the end..

[Kixxler]

If we take it small and go step by step with things that are just number changes, sure that is do-able. If you want to take big swings that involve reworking client and server functionality, then you are looking at man weeks or months of work.

It HAS been months since a "big swing" has occured. If you guys weren't so obsessed with making money, you could put a little effort into doing your job

[Jig]

It HAS been months since a "big swing" has occured. If you guys weren't so obsessed with making money, you could put a little effort into doing your job

Ouch, harsh

[IGN Storm]

If we take it small and go step by step with things that are just number changes, sure that is do-able. If you want to take big swings that involve reworking client and server functionality, then you are looking at man weeks or months of work.

As for the design of new content, that is easy. You or I can kick out ideas that write themselves (A dark knight has raised an army of rabid wolves and trolls and seeks to overthrow Alterra!) It is the actual implementation of that content that is pretty laborous. It is not procedurally generated. It is all hand crafted. New art is also a big chunk of work.

But back to balance, it is something we can keep poking at, especially if we can keep the scope measured and not sweeping.

Good discussion guys, lets keep it friendly and focused and we can get to some good action items that we can turn around.

Thank you for clarifying, but if number changes are easy, why hasn't endgame been fixed yet? Imxoriginal and Whoisthis have already came up with better replacement Stats. Also, Rhinos and Foxes are still a tad bit under powered and need a few minor adjustments.

[Elitephonix]

Thank you for clarifying, but if number changes are easy, why hasn't endgame been fixed yet? Imxoriginal and Whoisthis have already came up with better replacement Stats. Also, Rhinos and Foxes are still a tad bit under powered and need a few minor adjustments.

Actually, pvp was meant to be for FFA. I'm guessing your never fought with a rhino or fox in FFA? The rhinos party buffs give you a big boost.

[IGN Storm]

Actually, pvp was meant to be for FFA. I'm guessing your never fought with a rhino or fox in FFA? The rhinos party buffs give you a big boost.

I'd take a Pally over a Rhino any day. The Pally offers much more damage, faster heals, better debuffs, and Rev with a higher range. The rhino's party buffs gives what, +24 damage and +5 armour?

[fourleaf]

Actually, pvp was meant to be for FFA. I'm guessing your never fought with a rhino or fox in FFA? The rhinos party buffs give you a big boost.
Very true, I still would like to see the rhino made into a bit more of a support class than they are now, considering how few of their skills are active non-buffs
As for fox I think they really just need a freeing skill that isn't a buff



It HAS been months since a "big swing" has occured. If you guys weren't so obsessed with making money, you could put a little effort into doing your job
They mean it will actually take months to implement the changes meaning that is all they are working on.
Ofcourse I think minor reworks on mechanics would merely take a week of work, which is actually alot of time they could be creating new content for more revenue.

[XghostzX]

@Sam - I understand you guys hate the criticism from other players and almost feel as if you don't know what else to say (because you've only said it an endless amount of times). Fusionstrike mentioned it earlier, but until there's some sort of evidence/proof of the situation PL is in, customers will only continue to make posts and negative responses (which if it were me in your position, I'd only feel put down). Players don't know the work and choices you put into your games, and if you could make that come alive, players would understand. Even a video of some sorts would be neat! Remember when Cinco would make a video simply announcing that everything was "Free, free and free!" in PL? Things like that are awesome.

Just my thoughts, I only want a company like you to succeed.

[IGN Storm]

@sam - i understand you guys hate the criticism from other players and almost feel as if you don't know what else to say (because you've only said it an endless amount of times). Fusionstrike mentioned it earlier, but until there's some sort of evidence/proof of the situation pl is in, customers will only continue to make posts and negative responses (which if it were me in your position, i'd only feel put down). Players don't know the work and choices you put into your games, and if you could make that come alive, players would understand. Even a video of some sorts would be neat! Remember when cinco would make a video simply announcing that everything was "free, free and free!" in pl? Things like that are awesome.

Just my thoughts, i only want a company like you to succeed.

LOL, Cinco is awesome

[Oldcoot]

Cinco was awesome

[Jig]

Cinco you crazy mofo where you at

I feel PL was the only game that had so much energy and comedy, AL seems so serious.. :/ seriously some people need to get a sense of humour

[Samhayne]

It HAS been months since a "big swing" has occured. If you guys weren't so obsessed with making money, you could put a little effort into doing your job

Kixxler, please be cool mate. We are trying to have a friendly conversation. Getting hostile makes it hard, ya know?

It isn't an obsession with money, it is called running a business. A business that needs to make payroll so that employees can make a living, pay their mortgages, put food on the table for their kids.

Take a minute and watch this piece from a bit ago about the history of Spacetime.http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?77897-History-of-Spacetime-Studios-KLRU-Capital-of-Innovation-Video

Gary has had to lay off the studios several times before. In his words, "A soul crushing experience" if memory serves.

So yeah, not an obsession, just trying to run a business. We welcome you to be part of the discussion about what we can do with PL while we also run our other games. If you can't handle that like an adult, well we will remove you from it.

Thanks.

[Samhayne]

@Sam - I understand you guys hate the criticism from other players and almost feel as if you don't know what else to say (because you've only said it an endless amount of times). Fusionstrike mentioned it earlier, but until there's some sort of evidence/proof of the situation PL is in, customers will only continue to make posts and negative responses (which if it were me in your position, I'd only feel put down). Players don't know the work and choices you put into your games, and if you could make that come alive, players would understand. Even a video of some sorts would be neat! Remember when Cinco would make a video simply announcing that everything was "Free, free and free!" in PL? Things like that are awesome.

Just my thoughts, I only want a company like you to succeed.

Thanks xghost. I really appreciate the sentiment. We are doing more to let people see what we are doing, how we do it and the people behind it. Moderator14 will have some announcements to that end next week

[Elitephonix]

58591
Lmao that first comment on that video via Sam ^^

[Jig]

58591
Lmao that first comment on that video via Sam ^^

What comment? Carr's sig saying "STS nOOb"? lmao too funny

[Elitephonix]

What comment? Carr's sig saying "STS nOOb"? lmao too funny

"I read a handbook for iPad "for dummies" one of the recommended games were pocket legend" ehhh.... What I'm getting is that it hints that pl is for dummies.

[Jig]

"I read a handbook for iPad "for dummies" one of the recommended games were pocket legend" ehhh.... What I'm getting is that it hints that pl is for dummies.

Oh, I didn't take much notice of that comment, there was probably some advertisement in there somewhere. Nah he wouldn't be lol it's a book for iPad users that aren't really familiar with technology so they probably advertised some apps 'The Best' apps ;) to get him started and get his liking :P

[Ijooo]

Sam please do answer this simple question. Can you give a quest regarding new players having elite rings.

Thank you in advance.

[Samhayne]

Sam please do answer this simple question. Can you give a quest regarding new players having elite rings.

Thank you in advance.

We could schedule something like that in, but the larger question is that what we should be doing? It seems like pvp balance is still a main sticking point.

[Extreme]

We could schedule something like that in, but the larger question is that what we should be doing? It seems like pvp balance is still a main sticking point.

Hello sam,

In my opinion, the main thing is PvP for many people in PL as it is the only thing left to do here, but as the others has said, we just need something to do, for example new sets and PvE or PvP map.. If I could suggest that quest thing ijooo mentioned was pretty good idea, just that could you make the Elite rings different sparkles? Also, There is a thread posted by "Everyone'sFavMage" about PvP maps, that I think alot would love to see. Sam, I really love how you would care about us and reply more often now, Thank you very much.

Extreme.

[Ijooo]

We could schedule something like that in, but the larger question is that what we should be doing? It seems like pvp balance is still a main sticking point.

Thank you for answering my question. I hope you can consider giving us a chance to have elite rings bec seriously its kind the hard to win without them in pvp and ctf. So until now i am sad that i didnt find this game during its glory days of expansion.

[Ijooo]

Hello sam,

In my opinion, the main thing is PvP for many people in PL as it is the only thing left to do here, but as the others has said, we just need something to do, for example new sets and PvE or PvP map.. If I could suggest that quest thing ijooo mentioned was pretty good idea, just that could you make the Elite rings different sparkles? Also, There is a thread posted by "Everyone'sFavMage" about PvP maps, that I think alot would love to see. Sam, I really love how you would care about us and reply more often now, Thank you very much.

Extreme.

Yeah, like maze ctf map so that flagging is difficult.

[Lovingly]

We could schedule something like that in, but the larger question is that what we should be doing? It seems like pvp balance is still a main sticking point.

+1321111111111111111111111111111111172791919928837 372892929299999282828828299292838392911111811111

[fourleaf]

We could schedule something like that in, but the larger question is that what we should be doing? It seems like pvp balance is still a main sticking point.
Sam, do you think changing the mechanics like I mentioned in my last post or modifying all the stats on gear and buffs would be easier to implement?
I see major benefits with the crit and dodge mechanics reworked.
If crit was just changed to a 130% dmg it would considerably nerf the dmg but it would be as luck based as lowering the crit stat, I actually see a higher crit chance as easier to balance because you can count on basing armor stats off of 130% dmg if people have near 80% crit, rather than basing 300 armor of a 350 dmg stat, that would do a rare crit with an extravagant double damage. Main downside is the cut in damage for pve, but I think we could cope with that. Challenging pve is always better than unbalanced pvp imo.

As for the dodging only auto attacks, it would still allow for a high dodge stat without making it entirely luck based, it would also keep pve working fine as pretty much all mobs use just autos so that would remain unharmed.

It seems this would only take about day of work, and could be removed rather easily if my guesses are very off.

[quantionus]

Hello sam,

In my opinion, the main thing is PvP for many people in PL as it is the only thing left to do here, but as the others has said, we just need something to do, for example new sets and PvE or PvP map.. If I could suggest that quest thing ijooo mentioned was pretty good idea, just that could you make the Elite rings different sparkles? Also, There is a thread posted by "Everyone'sFavMage" about PvP maps, that I think alot would love to see. Sam, I really love how you would care about us and reply more often now, Thank you very much.

Extreme.

if there wont be any caps then i agree with u about the elite rings

[Multibird]

I'd take a Pally over a Rhino any day. The Pally offers much more damage, faster heals, better debuffs, and Rev with a higher range. The rhino's party buffs gives what, +24 damage and +5 armour?
What are you talking about? Rhinos rev has more range than a pally/mage.

[Samhayne]

More about why we didn't make an expansion/level cap raise to Pocket Legends in 2013 at: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?133283-Why-we-didn-t-make-a-new-expansion-for-Pocket-Legends-in-2013

[Samhayne]

Sam, do you think changing the mechanics like I mentioned in my last post or modifying all the stats on gear and buffs would be easier to implement?
I see major benefits with the crit and dodge mechanics reworked.
If crit was just changed to a 130% dmg it would considerably nerf the dmg but it would be as luck based as lowering the crit stat, I actually see a higher crit chance as easier to balance because you can count on basing armor stats off of 130% dmg if people have near 80% crit, rather than basing 300 armor of a 350 dmg stat, that would do a rare crit with an extravagant double damage. Main downside is the cut in damage for pve, but I think we could cope with that. Challenging pve is always better than unbalanced pvp imo.

As for the dodging only auto attacks, it would still allow for a high dodge stat without making it entirely luck based, it would also keep pve working fine as pretty much all mobs use just autos so that would remain unharmed.

It seems this would only take about day of work, and could be removed rather easily if my guesses are very off.

Turning big knobs like overall crit and dodge have big implications to the current state of balance. It's a decent thing to evaluate and is a good idea to look at, but I can't speak to how "easy" or "doable" such changes are without spending designer time to evaluate it.

[fourleaf]

Turning big knobs like overall crit and dodge have big implications to the current state of balance. It's a decent thing to evaluate and is a good idea to look at, but I can't speak to how "easy" or "doable" such changes are without spending designer time to evaluate it.
Ok thanks again for all the time u have spent in this thread

[Trenton]

What are you talking about? Rhinos rev has more range than a pally/mage. Considering rhino has a 14m revive, which is the farthest range of a skill in game, plus a glitch where you can press charge-rev and revive from 26m away, I'd say that the revive is a bit better. Rhino can instakill birds, and some int mages, tank decently, carry flags like a boss, and heal/buff others, and even if it can't get to the flag in time before someone else does, it's a great coverage class to keep others off the flagger. In Arena I'd say a pally is obviously better, but CTF, rhino all the way.

[Multibird]

Considering rhino has a 14m revive, which is the farthest range of a skill in game, plus a glitch where you can press charge-rev and revive from 26m away, I'd say that the revive is a bit better. Rhino can instakill birds, and some int mages, tank decently, carry flags like a boss, and heal/buff others, and even if it can't get to the flag in time before someone else does, it's a great coverage class to keep others off the flagger. In Arena I'd say a pally is obviously better, but CTF, rhino all the way.
Yeah

[Itoopeo]

Sell PL for another studio. They would do these:

-Recreate graphics engine
-Make the world look better than AL does
-And a lot more graphical updates.

After that game would make money like crazy.
AL has so much less content and skills are awfully terrible and camera cant be rotated. (example: a warrior throws this axe. It flies 6m but pulls the enemy from 12m. Lol. Also you cant move while throwing that axe. Ennggghh hate it.) PL works perfectly smoothly and nothing like that happens. Asn and example bear skills: Beckon + stomp. pull works perfectly and add stomp after that makes a combo and shoots the enemy far away. YAY! After that catch the enemy and throw a set of slashes on him like a ninja! Omg that so awesome! I love it! Thats why PL is much better than AL

Also in PL PvP you can know if your opponet is weak/strong/nuke and if he has some weak points. as an example mages have usually 400-500 health, depens on their set what they are using. In AL rogues can have health between 800 and 4000 its like so annoying you cant know how much your opponet can take damage. :D

PL has also one more advantage: Everyone can use all sets. Its so fun to try different sets with different classes. Like try using dex sets on mage or int stuff with bear. Thats something people just love.

[Schnitzel]

My reaction when i read the title
58755

IMO, STS is the best company to own PL,
PL wouldn't be the same if another company owned it.

[XghostzX]

Sell PL for another studio. They would do these:

-Recreate graphics engine
-Make the world look better than AL does
-And a lot more graphical updates.

After that game would make money like crazy.
AL has so much less content and skills are awfully terrible and camera cant be rotated. (example: a warrior throws this axe. It flies 6m but pulls the enemy from 12m. Lol. Also you cant move while throwing that axe. Ennggghh hate it.) PL works perfectly smoothly and nothing like that happens. Asn and example bear skills: Beckon + stomp. pull works perfectly and add stomp after that makes a combo and shoots the enemy far away. YAY! After that catch the enemy and throw a set of slashes on him like a ninja! Omg that so awesome! I love it! Thats why PL is much better than AL

Also in PL PvP you can know if your opponet is weak/strong/nuke and if he has some weak points. as an example mages have usually 400-500 health, depens on their set what they are using. In AL rogues can have health between 800 and 4000 its like so annoying you cant know how much your opponet can take damage. :D

PL has also one more advantage: Everyone can use all sets. Its so fun to try different sets with different classes. Like try using dex sets on mage or int stuff with bear. Thats something people just love.

Everything you said about the PvP I do agree with. I tried AL PvP for a nice lengthy time, and it's so hard figuring out when your opponent is low on health (I'm not sure if that's because I didn't quite understand most of the game mechanics yet or I was too busy watching the skills charging). Either way, PL's PvP is quick, strategic, bam-bam, boom-boom - it'll always be my favorite PvP in any game.

Here's the thing Finn - nobody would want to buy PL. If a company took PL off of STS' hands, that would be one less game to worry about. They would go full man-power on AL. No company will want to buy a game that's not in "first place" against its' other competitors.

[Rushorgtfo]

Ah we need a pvp rebalance...especially if this is the last cap for a while..

[Jig]

Ah we need a pvp rebalance...especially if this is the last cap for a while..

Yeah, if they decide on this then just re balance all dat stuff them go do ya thing on al... Lmao

[Itoopeo]

agreed

[Jig]

Yeah, if they decide on this then just re balance all dat stuff them go do ya thing on al... Lmao

But make them tiny updates iv read before someone said, a BSM part 2 makes abit easier for them I guess

Edit: ok I'm tired and I just quoted myself.. I will now sleep O.o

[Daniel Banuelos]

Ive been playing pl for an hour ago after a while i got bored maybe because of the graphics al has it all decent graphics fun boss fight the only problem in al is the charac

ters are imbalanced

[fourleaf]

Ive been playing pl for an hour ago after a while i got bored maybe because of the graphics al has it all decent graphics fun boss fight the only problem in al is the characters are imbalanced
Don't worry PL is more unbalanced.

[Jig]

Pl is just as bad as al pvp right now, it's ALL OVER THE PLACE

[fourleaf]

Pl is just as bad as al pvp right now, it's ALL OVER THE PLACE except PL has been like this 1.5 years.

[Jig]

except PL has been like this 1.5 years.

Mhhmmmmmm :-(

[fourleaf]

srsly tho, I am more than flattered this thread is still alive
fairly civil, perhaps this community has a glimpse of hope

[Zeus]

except PL has been like this 1.5 years.

This.

The downfall of PvP when capped reached L76 made me lose a majority of my interest. It just wasn't the same anymore - no matter how much skill you put into your fight, L9 skills would be far too OP.

[xcainnblecterx]

Have to say the whole "arcane legends is a huge successor to pl" is getting old. Tbh id rather play pl more then al as it stands. The economy there is complete crap, the way you get end game gear is even worse, and the huge plats sinks to increase the odds of getting gear is ridiculous. Pl wise way better economy, way more ways to spend plat, and thing feel less repitive/cramped or rushed. So i see it vice versa pl is the great predecessor to al

[Jig]

Have to say the whole "arcane legends is a huge successor to pl" is getting old. Tbh id rather play pl more then al as it stands. The economy there is complete crap, the way you get end game gear is even worse, and the huge plats sinks to increase the odds of getting gear is ridiculous. Pl wise way better economy, way more ways to spend plat, and thing feel less repitive/cramped or rushed. So i see it vice versa pl is the great predecessor to al

Lol, actually al you don't need plat IMO, I haven't payed a cent, I have a lvl 36 and capped all 16-21-26-31-36 and soon 41, I have made up to 500k but obviously lost 200k and I haven't really gone far with farming because I haven't played AL much, because I love playing PL, but now I'm back into al might actually get serious for once,I just made a new rogue, lvled to 21 hard to start of with but now its easy peasy, no platinum bought! PvP is great in al! Unless your a Mage at 36 but still! Ctf sucks atm but only because of flag boosters, it can be fixed, and it will stop eventually if they don't take action.. Overall, I'm liking pvp, lvling, and it is less repetitive then Pl's when your lvling up, you can lvl wherever because IMHO most maps are great! In Pl its the same, you can lvl up in the same map example sewers, bandit, nuris, the first map, fang, in castle, BSM, lost vall or if you want to farm other maps.

Right now, I'm on al side, only because sts has chosen the right way and to continue growing al

[ryanbemani1]

Spacetime, you made AL popular but you did not make it popular by adding new things to it. You increased publicity to experience the game so why can't you do that to PL. I have played PL from the very beginning it came out. For once, do not care about how many people play it, people like us are happy that only a couple thousand people play it so at least for us PL members, make it interesting because I cannot honestly care how many play it and to be fair, I think everyone here don't care as well. We just want to have fun so at least pay attention to this game for us.

[Samhayne]

Sorry guys, not going to happen.

I think everyone has had their say on this. No need to bring it back up and start it all over again.

*thread closed*