Mage Class Improvements for Jungle Expansion.

[Joncheese]

So based on this season i think we need to talk about the Mage class. It's clear we are the underdogs, and its also clear that even an arcane mage is pretty much screwed as soon as our shields have worn off. Rogues are still by far the better all round class and warriors are a close second with the fact that at the moment they cant be killed and they have also been given glaives...... urgh. It still takes me and Emma together to beat Venom 1v1.... and we have 1206 dmg between us.

I'm not gonna sit here and whine too much, we know mages are a supportive class, but please give us something to work with here.

Some suggestions i think may help:

Arcane Staff Buff increase in proc, maybe with a stun.
Armor Buff Make it so we can stay alive for a little longer against other classes.
Skill buff Make our stuns as good as the arcane maul.


I do appreciate that we have had some mage geared pets this season with Whimm and Sammy, but considering the huge armor and dmg buffs that the other classes have already i dont think that this was anything to shout about.

I'm not saying that other classes dont need tweaking too, there is a lot that can be done with all classes IMO but i am asking about mages here because i am one :p

Please guys put your suggestions below, I KNOW there are plenty out there :)

[Anarchist]

IMHO i think rogues and wars are balanced.

Rogues also have the best Overall healing skill

On the other hand mages healing skill and armor are the weakest

Now since rogues and mages are similar in stats, i think mages should have same max defence and max health equal to rogues and their healing skill should also be enhanced to:
1) heal more health.
2) give a better overtime heal.

mages REAL damage output should also be slightly improved.

Instead of concentrating the improvements directly on the arcane staff that few people have i will rather buff the the overall stats and healing skill of the mages bringing them to a rogues level.

I hope this helped c:

[Alhuntrazeck]

I'd love for the mage's heal over time to be buffed from 10 per sec as it currently is to 10% the healer's (or the person being healed, whichever) hp for 5 seconds - meaning we would be able to recover practically full health from 0% from our heal, making it like a warrior's heal. :)
Since there isn't a support class, why cant AL mages fill in that niche?

Another thing I'd like to be buffed is armor. Our armor is ridiculously low - I understand about how high armor plus a shield would become OP but I'm not asking for a huge buff: just, say, enough to be competitive with a rogue's, who after all are the DPS classes not the tanks...

Just a few suggestions. I agree completely with Jon about how mages are sort of weaker - an aarcane staff has 0% chance to kill a mythic warrior (without heal fails or lags or whatever).

Just IMO.

G'day people :)

[Haligali]

Hopeless attempt, just read the few first comment here: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?86578-Class-Balance-in-CTF-PvP-Feedback

[dantus]

Need a 5th skill map slot. Or the cool down on shield to be reduced to 15 seconds but reducing the % of damage reduction every 3 seconds until gone. This would also cost us slightly reduced damage output due to the damage loss while casting shield twice as often. Hopefully this would be enough reduction for us to survive between heal cooldowns.

[Joncheese]

Hopeless attempt, just read the few first comment here: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?86578-Class-Balance-in-CTF-PvP-Feedback

Hopeless as in not worth even trying?

[hakoom7]

I couldnt agree more with u more jon, i tried do many 1v1 with tanks and rouges and only if the tank or rouge has much weaker gear then i can win, i cant by any chance kill a warrior with arcane weapon or glaiv, and i cant kill rouge with mythic daggers, why is that ? Actually i came up with 2 reasons why mages so weak.

1.Heal (lifegiver) mages can heal only once, our heal over time is completly useless it adds 50 hp per second ! Really ? 1 bow shot and 700 hp is gone in less than a second, warriors heal give them shield and huge amount of heal over time he can go back to 50% hp before heas shield worn off, rouges have 3 packs each give them huge amount of heal and heal over time they can use it 1 by one and by the time they finished the 3 their heal is alrdy cooled down so they can re use it. Deffently mages have the worse heal

2.Armor. Ok so we have shield but we have very very low armor, we use shield and we fine for 3 seconds ok lets say 5 second, then shield gone, 1 aimed shot and we dead,

I dont get it why mage with 600 damage can do combo on me and im still alive and rouge with 300 damage can kill me with 1 combo, that if the aimed shot didnt crit and killed me already (with 40% crit, they always crit with aimed shot), so we have the highest damage instead of armor but its completly useless, i would rather the 300 damage if it means my lightning will do 3k damage on crit.

And btw gale adds 50% armor bonus, lets see i tested it and seem like those 50% armor means u can see a shield elix under ur name but u can still get 3k damage from aimed shot crit, so whats the difference here ? Thank u for making us have an awesome shield pic under our names but we actually rather have a Real shield.

Of course now warriors and rouges going to complain saying we just whining for a buff but seriously fully geared with arcane staff mage is as far as we can go and we still weak, what else can we do ? Stick to using curse and running away in clashes to get kills ?

In my openion, we have too long cool down for shield and heal, we have too long time to charge shield and heal aswell and we have very very less time for thier benifit to worn off. Try it see how annoying it is to wait for ur shield to cool down or heal.

Sorry for making my post too long i had to mention everything

[Sorcerie]

To add to Jon's concern let's look at the facts.

We have an arcane mage with the best gear in the game for the sorcerer class saying that he needs his arcane weapon to be buffed because even with another fully geared arcane mage at his side, it's barely enough to take down a single warrior. To add to this, it has been said by developers in the past that each class has been balanced so that there is no need for mages to be designated as the clear and distinct 'support class' -- and yet we have Jon testifying here that they are indeed a support class.

Granted, he could be referring to the pvp environment exclusively, but never the less, for jon to have to come to these conclusions this not only speaks to the state of the gear he is wielding, but the class as a whole.

It's no secret among mages that there still needs to be some work done to the class to truly balance things out.

Fact: We still have a heal that is a far cry from being as useful as the other two classes -- that being two of the skills in the heal tree (regens) are literally useless at end game play, and there have been no real signs of this being improved other than a 'perhaps it deserves a look'.

Fact: Our mana heal in the skill tree adds an extra 20% mana, while a mana potion heals for 30%. Why is it that our skill heals less mana than a potion? Shouldn't it be the other way around? In every RPG I have ever played a potion is a last resort in a pinch, but in this game it is vastly preferred over the actual skill in our build.

Furthermore, Jon represents the top of the class and he's still not able to compete on an even playing field, so what does that say to the rest of us who aren't armed to the teeth with arcane pets and weapons like he is?

Let's also take into consideration what this expansion will be doing to the classes overall. If the mages are already at a disadvantage without the extra 5 skill points, what will happen when rouges and warriors will be given more room for skills? At the current pace the mage class will just be the punching bags of pvp/pve more than they already are.

I don't mind being a glass cannon, but let's be honest here, the glass could stand to be tempered a little better.

[Saribeau]

IMHO i think rogues and wars are balanced.

Rogues also have the best healing skill

On the other hand mages healing skill and armor are the weakest

Now since rogues and mages are similar in stats, i think mages should have same max defence and max health equal to rogues and their healing skill should also be enhanced to:
1) heal more health.
2) give a better overtime heal.

mages REAL damage output should also be slightly improved.

Instead of concentrating the improvements directly on the arcane staff that few people have i will rather buff the the overall stats and healing skill of the mages bringing them to a rogues level.

I hope this helped c:

tytytytytytytyty thank u sir, a non mage player, but for understanding. they need more armor and a lil more dmg. rogue will complain about the dmg but u guys crit all the time. u do crazy dmg to 1 person with crit so let us have more dmg ty. i want heal to be the same as warr but i think the extra shield would be op so just a GOOD heal over time. not that crappy one that heals 10 hp. get that out.

[dantus]

I think we are rather balanced in terms of rogues. I have a mythic gun and Samuel and can beat 90% of bow users. Daggers I beat maybe 50% of the time, depending on the player. I've also tried dagger users using mythic staff which is about the same outcome. To that I attribute poor itemization on the mythic staff vs. Daggers.

[Haligali]

Hopeless as in not worth even trying?

It worth, i tried several times. I appreciate the sorcerer skill improvements,but the end nothing will change, ever. :(

[Haligali]

I think we are rather balanced in terms of rogues. I have a mythic gun and Samuel and can beat 90% of bow users. Daggers I beat maybe 50% of the time, depending on the player. I've also tried dagger users using mythic staff which is about the same outcome. To that I attribute poor itemization on the mythic staff vs. Daggers.

May i ask which rogues you vs?

[Anarchist]

It worth, i tried several times. I appreciate the sorcerer skill improvements,but the end nothing will change, ever. :(

I think Sts will eventually enhance the mage class by at least adeguately correcting the heal skill or sheild just maintain your complains continued and high.

Plz mages don't get angry but anytime i see one of you in a pvp room i take a laugh and pursue him till he is dead, no need to even heal.

[Instanthumor]

Yes, yes, and yes! Mages should be able to defeat warriors in 1v1! I'm just waiting for this day to happen.

[Haligali]

I suggested before, there was a glitch with the mythic staff just move that onto the arcane staff.

Tapatalk-kal küldve az én Nexus 4-el

[Imjebus]

I have a level 10 sorc that has a samael on it. Problem is, I don't even bother using the heal on it anymore because it doesn't make a difference if I'll survive or not against a rogue. The +35 hp is nice from samael and I tried to use heal and the health regen on the heal...it was pointless to say the least. Quite honestly the regen is useless in both end game and twinking. They really should look into sorc's heals AT LEAST.

Another thing to address is other classes will complain that we don't need a buff. If that's the case, then why are there more warriors and rogues than there are sorc's whenever you enter a pvp room? Simple, we are the weakest class so nobody wants to spend their time on a character that cannot compete in PvP.

[Striderevil]

Mages are specialists in mob clearance. So make our AoE dmg more effective. Honestly if improvements are being considered then

1) Make heal and mana regen. a %tage of total
2) Combine shield with curse or heal as honestly its far better than losing one slot to shield and then heal which is a useless skill
3) Allow us to be able to root in pvp with time stop. Also allow us to be able to slow with Ice bolt 100% for 4 sec. rather than just 20%. Why? because we deliver AoE damage and currently cannot do so effectively as we die long before we see the effects of our damage if any.
4) Increase critical skill damage of all skills as lightening is unpredictable at 20-25% critical chance, and even with this crit. skill rarely does it lead to a kill.

5) Explain how curse really works properly. It says it gives damage everytime an enemy attacks and yet mobs at lower level maps can't be killed with curse alone unless they can do some form of damage to the mage (reflected damage). This is pointless as mages do not have enough HP and armor to withstand many hits to begin with. So please explain what curse is really supposed to do so that we know if its working as intended or not.

[Morholt]

Mages are quite awesome in the pve aspect of the game. Keep in mind that any change to benefit them in PvP would also benefit them in pve, which could make them highly overpowered in pve. It's a very tough thing to balance out for sts.

Also, there is no 1v1 deathmatch in this game. So, you could say that the reason mages are bad in PvP is because you're playing wrong. :P The PvP in this game is team oriented. So, play your mage to its stengths. Curse & stun from afar while your team gets close. Sadly, there are kill APs and you won't get tons of kills like this. :/ It does then feel like a support class in PvP. A support class certainly is fun, though, as they are normally a staple in team play in other games. However, there are those kill APs...and that makes being a [situational] support oriented character feel lame. :( I'm not saying take away the higher kill count APs, but if they weren't there, playing a mage in PvP could become more enjoyable.


One thing is for sure, though: the mage's heal seriously needs to be worked on. lol

[dantus]

Mages are quite awesome in the pve aspect of the game. Keep in mind that any change to benefit them in PvP would also benefit them in pve, which could make them highly overpowered in pve. It's a very tough thing to balance out for sts.

Also, there is no 1v1 deathmatch in this game. So, you could say that the reason mages are bad in PvP is because you're playing wrong. :P The PvP in this game is team oriented. So, play your mage to its stengths. Curse & stun from afar while your team gets close. Sadly, there are kill APs and you won't get tons of kills like this. :/ It does then feel like a support class in PvP. A support class certainly is fun, though, as they are normally a staple in team play in other games. However, there are those kill APs...and that makes being a [situational] support oriented character feel lame. :( I'm not saying take away the higher kill count APs, but if they weren't there, playing a mage in PvP could become more enjoyable.


One thing is for sure, though: the mage's heal seriously needs to be worked on. lol
Most have replied regarding the survivability of a mage..making changes to this would have no significant effect on pve. I look at it this way as far as offense and defense mages should be able to withstand a warriors damage and rogues should be squished than mages.

[Haowesie]

Being a full myth last season, I could get a 50/50 chance win fighting against a full myth warrior or full myth rogue. That to me was balanced.

Now, I also have an arcane staff and full myth and I can't beat a full myth warrior or rogue :(

It's a pity that this season was supposed to be the sorc's turn to shine. But warriors rule like they did during windmill glitch imho... and yet other classes still want sorcs to be nerf'd x_x

[Joncheese]

I suggested before, there was a glitch with the mythic staff just move that onto the arcane staff.

Tapatalk-kal küldve az én Nexus 4-el

What a brilliantly simple solution. I'd go for this 100%.


I have a level 10 sorc that has a samael on it. Problem is, I don't even bother using the heal on it anymore because it doesn't make a difference if I'll survive or not against a rogue. The +35 hp is nice from samael and I tried to use heal and the health regen on the heal...it was pointless to say the least. Quite honestly the regen is useless in both end game and twinking. They really should look into sorc's heals AT LEAST.

Another thing to address is other classes will complain that we don't need a buff. If that's the case, then why are there more warriors and rogues than there are sorc's whenever you enter a pvp room? Simple, we are the weakest class so nobody wants to spend their time on a character that cannot compete in PvP.


Mages are specialists in mob clearance. So make our AoE dmg more effective. Honestly if improvements are being considered then

1) Make heal and mana regen. a %tage of total
2) Combine shield with curse or heal as honestly its far better than losing one slot to shield and then heal which is a useless skill
3) Allow us to be able to root in pvp with time stop. Also allow us to be able to slow with Ice bolt 100% for 4 sec. rather than just 20%. Why? because we deliver AoE damage and currently cannot do so effectively as we die long before we see the effects of our damage if any.
4) Increase critical skill damage of all skills as lightening is unpredictable at 20-25% critical chance, and even with this crit. skill rarely does it lead to a kill.

5) Explain how curse really works properly. It says it gives damage everytime an enemy attacks and yet mobs at lower level maps can't be killed with curse alone unless they can do some form of damage to the mage (reflected damage). This is pointless as mages do not have enough HP and armor to withstand many hits to begin with. So please explain what curse is really supposed to do so that we know if its working as intended or not.


So its clear from all of the replies so far that mages seem to need a few improvements. The main points being:

Arcane Staff Buff

Heal Buff/improvement Make the heal worth having. Give us a greater Mana Regen and a better Heal Over Time

Make Timeshift actually do its job so that it can be used in PVP If it was done properly this may actually be of some use in PVP.

Improved Sheild If you're going to make us squishy.... At least give us a better sheild, maybe include Health Regen in the sheild?


Mages are quite awesome in the pve aspect of the game. Keep in mind that any change to benefit them in PvP would also benefit them in pve, which could make them highly overpowered in pve. It's a very tough thing to balance out for sts.

Also, there is no 1v1 deathmatch in this game. So, you could say that the reason mages are bad in PvP is because you're playing wrong. :P The PvP in this game is team oriented. So, play your mage to its stengths. Curse & stun from afar while your team gets close. Sadly, there are kill APs and you won't get tons of kills like this. :/ It does then feel like a support class in PvP. A support class certainly is fun, though, as they are normally a staple in team play in other games. However, there are those kill APs...and that makes being a [situational] support oriented character feel lame. :( I'm not saying take away the higher kill count APs, but if they weren't there, playing a mage in PvP could become more enjoyable.


One thing is for sure, though: the mage's heal seriously needs to be worked on. lol

Yes i agree with you mate, Mages are just awesome in PVE, but i dont think we need to worry about them being OP in PVE. Why? Because firstly there is no VS in PVE. Secondly Mages are a crowd control specialist anyway and when you are using an arcane staff the aggro that you attract from mobs is just crazy, so IMO a buff on any of the above wont affect the PVE aspect of the game as warriors will still maintain their jobs as Healers/Protectors. Rogues will still be single target masters. Mages will still be CC... It just means they have a bit more weight behind their punches and we can survive a little longer.

Whilst i know that there is no 1v1 in the game inevitably players end up coming up against someone on their own even if they dont plan to. If they do they are screwed (unless its a rogue and you have an Arcane Staff and Sammy and full myth with the right skills and the right combo and and and and......) and a buff on some of the above would certainly be appreciated. I agree though that in group fights if you have a Mage they are fairly handy i suppose, but only as a mana store and only as a kind of addition to damage for the Rogues.

I don't think the kill count AP's being deleted is an option that anyone can consider mate. Think about the people that have been getting kills this season and the past 4. This season since Pride started i have got 7.5k kills which i'm very proud of being a Mage so i would definitely not want the achievements taken away.

I just hope a Dev has a serious look at the mage class. Like I said there is no doubt that all classes need improvements but i am concentrating on Mages as that is my main character and seems to be the class in most need of some much needed improvements.

[Alfai]

Ok fine with the requests.





Please buff rogues.







......runs

[Haligali]

Please buff rogues.


http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?133716-Find-the-only-one-non-rogue-giving-away-elite-golden-puzzlebox

Uhm, sure -.-

[Anarchist]

Since we are on buff topic please also buff wars hoR with infinite invulnerability.

[Imjebus]

Since we are on buff topic please also buff wars hoR with infinite invulnerability.

Yeah and bring back the windmill glitch from season 1/2 please :) hahahaa xD

[kinzmet]

This season its the sorc's turn to shine, there will be a passive "dual-cast" on mages that makes 50% chance of double spamming a skill in one go on a normal cast and 100% chance on charged cast (well its only my imagination to impro mages on pvp). :)

[Asphiroth]

I agree. Something has to be done about the sorcerers. If things keep going the way they are, we'll practically be doomed in the Dragon's Enclave maps. Buff up the armor!

[Zeus]

The combat triangle, the way it has been in a good percentage of MMOs (I cannot speak for DL, as I haven't gotten past L10 in that game) that STG has produced is Mages > Rogues & Rogues > Warriors & Warriors > Mages.

The way that it is set up now is mages have a 50/50 chance of beating a rogue and almost a 0% chance of beating an equally geared warrior. While the 0% chance is fine, IMHO due to the combat triangle, the chance towards beating a rogue should be 100% if the rogue is equally geared.

There are great suggestions that I am not going to repeat. While I do not believe that ALL of them should be implemented, because that would defeat the purpose of having some weaknesses in the class, I think that some should be implemented.

The one I have suggested below is a permanent fix.

To fix that, I propose that they reduce the stun immunity. Instead of 7 seconds, make it 5 second stun immunity. As a stun typically lasts 2-3 seconds, that leaves a user who got stunned with 3 seconds to do something. Thus, this would make it easier for a sorcerer to kill a rogue as the chance of keeping a rogue's extremely rapid and hard hitting damage nullified is increased. Rogues - keep in mind that we do have the ever increasing dodge factor that will wear away stuns as caps grow exponentially larger. So please, don't complain if mages are killing you. According to the combat triangle, they are supposed to kill you!

Mages - remember that DoTs are currently your enemies against a warrior due to them triggering juggernaut. However, as the cap raises, juggernaut's effectiveness will weaken due to it being a fixed skill. So, hopefully in the next expansion, this is taken into account.





Warriors have had their damage increased slightly in PvP.




Slightly lowered how much damage all three classes take in PvP, to make the battles last longer and be more interesting. Feedback on this change is very welcome!




Slightly decreased amount of heals in PvP.
Slightly increased amount of damage Warriors do in PvP.


Lastly, in the above (listed in chronological order) quotes, developers have not addressed the issue where warriors were given a damage boost TWICE in PvP. Other classes were merely given a damage reduction - meaning how much damage they can take, while for warriors? They get both benefits. Where's the system of checks and balances!? So, now, not only are they more survivable - they are also hitting harder at an exponential level due to the percentage increase they are granted that IS NOT visible upon entering a PvP match.

[Haligali]

Since we are on buff topic please also buff wars hoR with infinite invulnerability.

Warriors dont need any buff, warriors need better pve maps where we really need them. Even the hardest maps now doable and faster now - less time consuming, so more efficient - without them. :(

[Anarchist]

Warriors dont need any buff, warriors need better pve maps where we really need them. Even the hardest maps now doable and faster now - less time consuming, so more efficient - without them. :(

When the new mobs will be whopping squishy rogues and mages arse i will see how we will do without wars.

Warrios will be begged to enter a farming party next expansion watch and see xD.

[Instanthumor]

@Zeus For my mage (full mythic with Runic), I find that is it almost impossible to beat a rogue with Samael and mythic daggers. However, against rogues without both of those items i.e. mythic daggers and Glacian, mythic bow and Samael are easily beatable, at least 95% of the time.

[Zeus]

@Zeus For my mage (full mythic with Runic), I find that is it almost impossible to beat a rogue with Samael and mythic daggers. However, against rogues without both of those items i.e. mythic daggers and Glacian, mythic bow and Samael are easily beatable, at least 95% of the time.

You have to spec all damage skills & shield, no?

I'm not trying to be rude, but by saying this - what is your point? I'm asking so I know how to reply. :)

[Instanthumor]

You have to spec all damage skills & shield, no?

I'm not trying to be rude, but by saying this - what is your point? I'm asking so I know how to reply. :)

This is why, no hard feelings, and yes, all damage skills and shield, if you consider Curse as a damage skill.

[Zeus]

This is why, no hard feelings, and yes, all damage skills and shield, if you consider Curse as a damage skill.

First off, I'm a tiny bit confused. What do you mean by "This is why". As of right now, you're quoting and replying ambiguously, so I can't give a proper response! :/

And, what I wanted to say was that if you're having to spec an all damage build, that isn't a solution. Why? It leaves you pretty vulnerable to not only your own class but even more vulnerable to warriors.

Thus, it is why I was suggesting what I suggested on regards to stun immunity.

Moreover, there are boosts still applicable to PvP on warriors when they do not need them anymore. So, they should be removed. As of right now, they are only imbalancing and making warriors rather advantageous. There is no other class in AL where the general rule "the more the better" can apply other than with warriors.

[Instanthumor]

At times, I really do not get you, and no one said I only used 4 skills...

Just forget I said anything.

[nelson131]

Weird........why do I always hunt down mages and get screwed by warriors while I am a rogue?
I use mixed build.... Refer to alfai's mixed experimental build.
U should be able to find it in rogue's discussion

Thx

[falmear]

They need to improve the durability of shield. Now it drops way too fast as compared to season 4 when they introduced the changes. With mythics and upgrades everyone's damage went way. Now shield breaks way too fast.

[Imjebus]

They need to improve the durability of shield. Now it drops way too fast as compared to season 4 when they introduced the changes. With mythics and upgrades everyone's damage went way. Now shield breaks way too fast.

My shield use to hold up until my 2nd heal was ready (I play as a level10 twink) and now my shield is starting to bust before it's even close to being used again. Doesn't help that our heal is basically worthless so I just had to get rid of it lol.

[Anarchist]

Weird........why do I always hunt down mages and get screwed by warriors while I am a rogue?
I use mixed build.... Refer to alfai's mixed experimental build.
U should be able to find it in rogue's discussion

Thx

LoL!! it happens to me too with my rogue (twink) i have like 90% chance of killing a mage but 50:50 with a war xP