Four Skills. (4)

[Solid]

I think it's obvious that some people use more than 4 skills.
I think it's also obvious that there are only 4 skill slots.

The four skill slots were probably implemented as a balancing factor, more than 4 skills could make a class Superior to one.

For example; if there was a 6 skill slots, as a rogue I would use viel, massive armor and damage boost, razor shield (dodge), packs, aimed shot, noxious, and shadow piercer. That doesn't sound very fun to fight.

If the developers really wanted us to use more than 4 skills, they could've added more slots or implemented a Star Legends like system, you have 4 skills and if you press a button, you can switch to another 4 skills instataneously.

Clearly this was not added.

I think using more than 4 skills isn't really fair because

1. Not all classes can swap for maximum efficiency.
2. There is no "wait"

---------------

1. Not all classes can swap for maximum efficiency, in terms of using more than 4 skills rogues are at a disadvantage;
Sorcerers and Warriors have a 2 second invulnerability to any damage which is basically time to swap skills, on top of that Warriors have 6k health and 2k armor which makes swapping even more easy. If a rogue tried to swap, he/she would fail, there is no 2 second invulnerability to depend on, there is no shield to depend on.

2. There is no "wait", swapping skills is almost perfect for Mages and Warriors, buff up and swap to attack skills.

For example,

Sorcerers can easily use shield, apply curse to the opponent then stun the him/her, then quickly replace the skills on CD with more attack skills.

Warriors can use VB (damage and heal), Juggernaut (health boost and Rambo), Horn of renew( 2 sec invulnerability and heal), then swap to attack skills because the buffs are on CD.

Pet spamming is esentially the same thing and pet spamming is undergoing fixture.

There are many solutions to this illegitimate way of PvP.
Here are some of my ideas.

1. Lock the swapping of skills on Cool Down. I personally think this is the best and simple solution, if the skill is on cool down, you can't swap it out.
2. Limit skills to 4. Worst case scenario.

Constructive feedback is welcome, do not flame please.

[Bless]

Ik half of the warrior and mage population is going to hate on this thread and I am not supporting him because he is a friend, this thead is filled with logic!

Firstly, if sts intended for us to use more than 4 skills, there would be extra slots BUT there arent, sooooo guess what! You're not supposed to use more than 4..If you play the game like it is meant to, and not try to exploit the gaps (not everybody exploits it though) then it would be hella lot balanced.

Secondly, switching skills out wouldn't be such a problem (I wouldnt mind) IF all classes are able to do it. The warrior can easily switch skills because of high armor and hp, then comes the mage, they have one of THE best defence skills: Arcane shield - both of the classes have 2 seconds to switch out skills. Then comes the rogue which has the least survivability overall, we rogues cannot switch skills out because we have NO skills that provide us with invincibility and if we stand in the same place for 2 seconds inactive, we will easily die, as tested.

Lastly, this 'trick' topples the balance of classes hugely, it gives some classes inkredble survivability along with damage.

This doesn't apply to everybody switching out skills, its just to those that do it in mid fights which is really frustrating and unfair.

My 2 cents :/

[Anarchist]

Prepare for them Ctf ,they will soon be here ranting that you are wrong.

As for me i think when you start a 1vs1 fight you shouldn't change anything. If you do it's no more a fair fight it has been contaminated. This include pet,skill,gear changing.

After you die then change whatever you want and have a second fight.

[Cero]

First!!

Ok, heres a thought that i would like to give.

Rogue Do not need a 5th skill to do better. You're saying its unfair? Think how rogue can do with just 4skills. They can survive and kill without the need of a 5th skill that a sorc or tank needs
To play better on a match. As what you said there's no "wait", it is one's risk to switch during a fight.

#pawnby4skills

[Solid]

First!!

Ok, heres a thought that i would like to give.

Rogue Do not need a 5th skill to do better. You're saying its unfair? Think how rogue can do with just 4skills. They can survive and kill without the need of a 5th skill that a sorc or tank needs
To play better on a match.

#pawnby4skills

Good tanks can kill a rogue with 4 skills, any additional skills are just improvements.

[Rare]

If the developers only wanted you to use 4, the would only allow you to spec 4.

You really think STS had the forethought to only allow 4 skills in pvp for balance??? The game was out a couple months before pvp was even added. Do you really believe sts made that decision based on the little internal testing they did? Im betting no.

More than likely, the limitation is due to real estate on the screen. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was confirmed.

[Solid]

If the developers only wanted you to use 4, the would only allow you to spec 4.

You really think STS had the forethought to only allow 4 skills in pvp for balance??? The game was out a couple months before pvp was even added. Do you really believe sts made that decision based on the little internal testing they did? Im betting no.

More than likely, the limitation is due to real estate on the screen. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was confirmed.


You have not read my thread completely, they have other games where u can use 12 skills and 8 skills at once,

AL is 4.

[Ebezaanec]

I have five skills, but I only swap one pve skill in favor for a pvp skill for when I head to TDM or CTF.

[Instanthumor]

Sorry Postulate1, but I strongly disagree with you. If I use 5 skills against you, that's no one else's problem but yours. Deal with it please. It's been almost an year already since the release of PvP, and if they wanted to limit the skills, they would have done so already.

[Solid]

Sorry Postulate1, but I strongly disagree with you. If I use 5 skills against you, that's no one else's problem but yours. Deal with it please. It's been almost an year already since the release of PvP, and if they wanted to limit the skills, they would have done so already.

Please read the thread carefully,

Constructive feedback.

[Instanthumor]

Please read the thread carefully,

Constructive feedback.

This is constructive feedback. I'm telling you that you are wrong... Constructively.
Besides, you said construcive feedback is welcome. You didn't say constructive feedback only.

[Haowesie]

People have learned to do it to survive. Other classes has the ability to do it, and can learn it to. If the placement is the issue, then maybe your suggestion should be to "change skill placement location" rather than asking to remove the ability.

Like others have said, if STS did not intend it, they would have done so ages ago.

[Solid]

People have learned to do it to survive. Other classes has the ability to do it, and can learn it to. If the placement is the issue, then maybe your suggestion should be to "change skill placement location" rather than asking to remove the ability.

Like others have said, if STS did not intend it, they would have done so ages ago.

Windmill glitch took a month to fix.

Elite wraith heart as well,

As you can tell, they don't fix things asap.

[Instanthumor]

Windmill glitch took a month to fix.

Elite wraith heart as well,

As you can tell, they don't fix things asap.

For a month. PvP has been here for almost an year. Big difference there.

[Rare]

You have not read my thread completely, they have other games where u can use 12 skills and 8 skills at once,

AL is 4.

I did read it completely. And I've played those games. They did it because they didn't want to crowd the screen.

What was the last game they had with more than four skills on the screen at a time?

[Anarchist]

Changing skills/pet/gear during a fight is categorically unfair in a 1vs1 fight it's not a question of rogues mage or war, its a question the fight getting "contaminated".

My concept of 1vs1 pvp is:
Preparation-fight-conclusion - improvement.

Not

preparation - fight (shortcut to win) - conclusion.


Thats not fair! fight properly and ask Sts to enhance your class if you think its too weak instead of finding shortcuts.

You can understand this skill changing situation is just a makeup, a unnatural setup when cero said wars need 5 skills.
That means the strongest class in AL needs five skills to win a fight? weird joke.

The same mages that are saying 5 skills are ok even for wars are still the same that say wars are too overpowered, arrr come on people.

[Instanthumor]

Changing skills/pet/gear during a fight is categorically unfair in a 1vs1 fight it's not a question of rogues mage or war, its a question the fight getting "contaminated".

My concept of 1vs1 pvp is:
Preparation-fight-conclusion - improvement.

Not

preparation - fight (shortcut to win) - conclusion.


Thats not fair! fight properly and ask Sts to enhance your class if you think its too weak instead of finding shortcuts.

You can understand this skill changing situation is just a makeup, a unnatural setup when cero said wars need 5 skills.
That means the strongest class needs five skills to win a fight?

Changing skills is not unfair, it is a tactic. The use of hotkeys is unfair. And who would switch gear during a fight? Please go ahead and switch your gear, it wouldn't affect me. Try playing mage class, and then share you biased opinion with us later.

[Rare]

Changing skills/pet/gear during a fight is categorically unfair in a 1vs1 fight it's not a question of rogues mage or war, its a question the fight getting "contaminated".

My concept of 1vs1 pvp is:
Preparation-fight-conclusion - improvement.

Not

preparation - fight (shortcut to win) - conclusion.


Thats not fair! fight properly and ask Sts to enhance your class if you think its too weak instead of finding shortcuts.

You can understand this skill changing situation is just a makeup, a unnatural setup when cero said wars need 5 skills.
That means the strongest class needs five skills to win a fight?

That's like saying it's unfair to use an arcane staff against someone using a legendary staff.

[Solid]

That's like saying it's unfair to use an arcane staff against someone using a legendary staff.

Basically 6 skills vs 4.

[Bless]

Changing skills/pet/gear during a fight is categorically unfair in a 1vs1 fight it's not a question of rogues mage or war, its a question the fight getting "contaminated".

My concept of 1vs1 pvp is:
Preparation-fight-conclusion - improvement.

Not

preparation - fight (shortcut to win) - conclusion.


Thats not fair! fight properly and ask Sts to enhance your class if you think its too weak instead of finding shortcuts.

You can understand this skill changing situation is just a makeup, a unnatural setup when cero said wars need 5 skills.
That means the strongest class needs five skills to win a fight?
Eggg-freaking-xactly!

The point of ctf is not to 1v1, so if you guys are going to 1v1, then atleast dont complain about my class is UP so ill use 6 skills. If you want to do something that is not intended (1v1 in the ctf arena) then face the concequences (classes have strengths and weaknesses 1v1). In a mixed class fight, you wont see people switch skills a lot - because the classes support each other...



If the developers only wanted you to use 4, the would only allow you to spec 4.

You really think STS had the forethought to only allow 4 skills in pvp for balance??? The game was out a couple months before pvp was even added. Do you really believe sts made that decision based on the little internal testing they did? Im betting no.

More than likely, the limitation is due to real estate on the screen. In fact, I'm pretty sure it was confirmed.
5 skills would fit the UI, there were over 10 skills on the PL UI and it runs on armv6 devices, which (a lot of em) have smaller screens than the more developed new devices. A small change in UI will easily fit 5 skills.

Sts most likely allowed users to change skill mapping for pvp and pve runs, not in the middle of pvp fights. Thats why they dont allow you to respec in a pvp map.

[Solid]

Changing skills/pet/gear during a fight is categorically unfair in a 1vs1 fight it's not a question of rogues mage or war, its a question the fight getting "contaminated".

My concept of 1vs1 pvp is:
Preparation-fight-conclusion - improvement.

Not

preparation - fight (shortcut to win) - conclusion.


Thats not fair! fight properly and ask Sts to enhance your class if you think its too weak instead of finding shortcuts.

You can understand this skill changing situation is just a makeup, a unnatural setup when cero said wars need 5 skills.
That means the strongest class in AL needs five skills to win a fight? weird joke.

The same mages that are saying 5 skills are ok even for wars are still the same that say wars are too overpowered, arrr come on people.

I ran out of thanks, so thanks.

[Milan Lame Man]

That's like saying it's unfair to use an arcane staff against someone using a legendary staff.

Well... it is ;-)
I completely ignore the PvP aspect of the game, because I can never compete with people who play this game a lot longer / spend a lot more money on it.
When someone tries to play PvP with inferior gear, he becomes a target of public disgrace.

What the PvP really needs is work on the lobby part, so you can choose people to play with, and inspect their gear, and deny fight if you don't like it.

[Anarchist]

PVP TIP (for mages):

i hope you understand that if changing skills is ok in a 1vs 1 fight for you mages its also ok for a war and if a war uses five skills you are surely 150% going to loose the fight. If you can cope with that nice, no problem.


You will complety tip the little balance in the triangle to the wars side. Now they will not only farm mages but also rogues. You aren't getting stronger folks cause from a war point of view i can assure all mages you are digging deeper your tombs and making wars more stronger like this. :)

[Rare]

Well... it is ;-)
I completely ignore the PvP aspect of the game, because I can never compete with people who play this game a lot longer / spend a lot more money on it.
When someone tries to play PvP with inferior gear, he becomes a target of public disgrace.

What the PvP really needs is work on the lobby part, so you can choose people to play with, and inspect their gear, and deny fight if you don't like it.

Totally agreed. But, unfortunately these are the rules of the game that sts has created. If it's within the rules and isn't exploiting some glitch, it's fair game.

For all the talk about fair gaming and 1v1 and "skill" I'd be willing to bet that every player aims to get top gear. It gives you an inherent advantage. Skill or not. And when they go up against players with lesser gear, they aren't stopping to make it "fair".

This is exactly the same thing.

[Cero]

Changing skills/pet/gear during a fight is categorically unfair in a 1vs1 fight it's not a question of rogues mage or war, its a question the fight getting "contaminated".

My concept of 1vs1 pvp is:
Preparation-fight-conclusion - improvement.

Not

preparation - fight (shortcut to win) - conclusion.


Thats not fair! fight properly and ask Sts to enhance your class if you think its too weak instead of finding shortcuts.

You can understand this skill changing situation is just a makeup, a unnatural setup when cero said wars need 5 skills.
That means the strongest class in AL needs five skills to win a fight? weird joke.

The same mages that are saying 5 skills are ok even for wars are still the same that say wars are too overpowered, arrr come on people.

Are you thinking that warrior is the strongest? Strongest for tanking, that is.
Have you seen ink died fighting Aze?
Or seen venom asking for rematch against ipred ?
Both of this tanks are well geared and uses 5skills but still got owned by 4skills users.
Warrrior switch skills to get stronger because they cant win with just 4skills.

[Solid]

Are you thinking that warrior is the strongest? Strongest for tanking, that is.
Have you seen ink died fighting Aze?
Or seen venom asking for rematch against ipred ?
Both of this tanks are well geared and uses 5skills but still got owned by 4skills users.
Warrrior switch skills to get stronger because they cant win with just 4skills.

This is coming from a warrior.

[Erdnase]

Its sort of a matter of, "because i cant do it, its not fair." That may be partially true, but as Cero pointed out above, rogues arent suffering much from this. I dont see unfairness in this unless hotkey is involved. Its not always practical to switch, its just another tactic in the game. In all honesty, even a rogue could switch, but its just not practical anyway. In the time it would take a rogue to switch skills they could nearly kill their target. With this said, i wouldnt mind it if your first solution was implemented either (no switch during cool down). Im always open to some change in tactic. :)

[dantus]

I love people saying if sts didn't intend for is to swap skills in combat they wouldn't allow us to have more than 4 skills at the same time...we are able to spec into more than 4 skills so we can use different skill sets in different situations (example pve vs pvp) not to exploit it and use 6 skills at once.

[Solid]

I love people saying if sts didn't intend for is to swap skills in combat they wouldn't allow us to have more than 4 skills at the same time...we are able to spec into more than 4 skills so we can use different skill sets in different situations (example pve vs pvp) not to exploit it and use 6 skills at once.

This was most likely implemented for hybrid builds pve/PvP builds for people to save plat.

[Zynzyn]

I think it's obvious that some people use more than 4 skills.
I think it's also obvious that there are only 4 skill slots.

There are many solutions to this illegitimate way of PvP.


An sts dev himself/herself said in a previous thread (closed) that swapping skills is legit and fair and he/she does it as well while playing. It is not illegitimate to do so. To constructively criticize, I must point out that only 4 skill slots are there so that they fit snugly on the user interface without causing the user any discomfort. Swapping skills is very legit and if a mage for instance, chooses to swap skills during a fight, that is perfectly ok.

[Ravager]

I think it's obvious that some people use more than 4 skills.
I think it's also obvious that there are only 4 skill slots.

There are many solutions to this illegitimate way of PvP.


An sts dev himself/herself said in a previous thread (closed) that swapping skills is legit and fair and he/she does it as well while playing. It is not illegitimate to do so. To constructively criticize, I must point out that only 4 skill slots are there so that they fit snugly on the user interface without causing the user any discomfort. Swapping skills is very legit and if a mage for instance, chooses to swap skills during a fight, that is perfectly ok.

Delphina I believe stated she uses 5 skills and it is fine. Afterwards she closed the thread immediately. With my 4 skill build I could kill majority of rogues but had trouble with a few. I do considerably better with 5 now. Sometimes I mess up the skill switching but that's my fault, my loss and my risk.

In order to be a top player, players have to evolve with the game play and tactics. I dont want to constantly do the same thing over and over and win but not get better. Now I have something new to learn and get better at.

[Haligali]

Dont know how to do this against a rogue, i tried and wasnt fast enough so i died (im playing on tablet). But it was successful against a warrior: i saw he just standing (probably switch skills) so i decided to do it also.

[Ravager]

Dont know how to do this against a rogue, i tried and wasnt fast enough so i died (im playing on tablet). But it was successful against a warrior: i saw he just standing (probably switch skills) so i decided to do it also.

Maybe during initial activation of shield or curse.

[Bless]

It wouldnt be a problem if rogues can do it. Idk how delphina does it but then again she has full maxed gear and not all rogues have access to gear like that whereas all mages and wars have a 2 sec invincibility, that being said its unfair to rogues.

How are you supposed to counter this argument..?

[Instanthumor]

It wouldnt be a problem if rogues can do it. Idk how delphina does it but then again she has full maxed gear and not all rogues have access to gear like that whereas all mages and wars have a 2 sec invincibility, that being said its unfair to rogues.

How are you supposed to counter this argument..?

Delphina might be talking about her mage.

[Anarchist]

Delphina<3 might be doing this in a pve contest and not for pvp, i too on my rogue use five skills.

[Solid]

Delphina I believe stated she uses 5 skills and it is fine. Afterwards she closed the thread immediately. With my 4 skill build I could kill majority of rogues but had trouble with a few. I do considerably better with 5 now. Sometimes I mess up the skill switching but that's my fault, my loss and my risk.

In order to be a top player, players have to evolve with the game play and tactics. I dont want to constantly do the same thing over and over and win but not get better. Now I have something new to learn and get better at.

Delph actually asked me to make a thread on this,

Delph is a mod I believe, not a dev- she doesn't play the game as much as hardcore players she hasn't experienced how multiple skills can be exploited.

Buff and attack-,

[Black Market]

Ok just put another window after you choosing team red or blue, this window for choosing skill to use in pvp, just 4 skill is allowed. Done.

[Venom]

To each his own. What one wants to do with the skill points its their decision. You are nobody to judge what they should do. You are whining about it here coz you get owned in 1v1 by warriors now coz of this. If you were a warrior, you wouldn't be talking against it in here. If people were allowed to choose only 4 skills for the entire AL run, there won't be any passives left to add skills in. Its just that you can map 4 at a time, unlocking 5 or even all 8 active skills is not an abuse. It's not our fault if the game doesn't allow us to map more on HUD. As a human being, how many skills do you learn? Has anyone limited you to learn 4 skills? Why the hell would my character be limited to 4? I wont be able to save Arlor with just 4 skills. Thanks!

#ctfwhinesalot

[dantus]

They should just add a 5th map spot. Problem solved. Or better yet 8 togglable skill slots.

[Bless]

To each his own. What one wants to do with the skill points its their decision. You are nobody to judge what they should do. You are whining about it here coz you get owned in 1v1 by warriors now coz of this. If you were a warrior, you wouldn't be talking against it in here. If people were allowed to choose only 4 skills for the entire AL run, there won't be any passives left to add skills in. Its just that you can map 4 at a time, unlocking 5 or even all 8 active skills is not an abuse. It's not our fault if the game doesn't allow us to map more on HUD. As a human being, how many skills do you learn? Has anyone limited you to learn 4 skills? Why the hell would my character be limited to 4? I wont be able to save Arlor with just 4 skills. Thanks!

#ctfwhinesalot

Its almost exactly like spamming pet skill, why did loads of people support that thread..? 5+ skills are just unfair to those who CANT DO IT AKA ROGUES and idc who wants to put skill points where, keep it fair.

The point of ctf is not to 1v1, so if you guys are going to 1v1, then atleast dont complain about my class is UP so ill use 6 skills. If you want to do something that is not intended (1v1 in the ctf arena) then face the concequences (classes have strengths and weaknesses 1v1). In a mixed class fight, you wont see people switch skills a lot - because the classes support each other...

If warriors and mages suck at 1v1 IN A CTF BASED PVP SYSTEM, it doesnt mean they should be entitled to 6 skills, why not play 5v5 like its supposed to. If you want to 1v1 then deal with it.

What would happen if a rogue would use veil, razor shield, nox, as, sp and combat medic?

Veil > razor > Packs > AS > Nox = Total annihilation regardless of the class. Heck I could put a round to any warrior in < 20 seconds with this combo. But guess what....we cant, we dont have 2 free seconds like yall do, and ofc we will be mad if we are beaten by an unfair advantage. If this is whining then so be it, its like the windmill glitch again, only with mages involved too.

#Pro

[Erdnase]

It wouldnt be a problem if rogues can do it. Idk how delphina does it but then again she has full maxed gear and not all rogues have access to gear like that whereas all mages and wars have a 2 sec invincibility, that being said its unfair to rogues.

How are you supposed to counter this argument..?
Some rogues could stun with charged auto and then change, or better yet, because you cant do any dmg anyway, change while a mage/war has 2 sec invulnerability. Still just dont think its a practical move for rogues though.

[Bless]

It wouldnt be a problem if rogues can do it. Idk how delphina does it but then again she has full maxed gear and not all rogues have access to gear like that whereas all mages and wars have a 2 sec invincibility, that being said its unfair to rogues.

How are you supposed to counter this argument..?
Some rogues could stun with charged auto and then change, or better yet, because you cant do any dmg anyway, change while a mage/war has 2 sec invulnerability. :) Still just dont think its a practical moves for rogues anyway though. Nope, our stun has <40% chance and our stun duration is 4sec max

It wouldnt be easy and too risky wouldnt it? :p

[Rianaku]

Oh this thread was enjoyable to read! xD

IMO, it is how it is. You say the game was intended to have 4 skill slots because the GM's made it that way, well, they also made it possible to add points to more than 4 skills, and the ability to change those 4 skills with any other skills you have added points to at any given time.

It's the way the game is. :) Don't like it, change character, or talk to the GM's about it.

It reminds me of a game I use to play where you had HP/SP stones, like AL's potions, and you could get extra potions as well. And while you were pvp'ing, if you used normal potions, everybody lost their minds. But the way I see it, they're apart of the game, if you can use them, they were made to be used.

Each class has their pro's and con's. Deal with it or find a way to change it. ;)

my2cents ~

Edit:
& if you want to have a 1v1 pvp that is "fair" then just ask the person to comply by your "fair" rules. If they don't want to, they're probably not worth your time... or your not worth theirs :p

& @Venom
I wont be able to save Arlor with just 4 skills. This cracked me up xD!

[Energizeric]

The reason why we are only allowed 4 skill slots is to force is to make compromises. Do you want to be good at flagging? If so, then you will have to give up something else. Do you want to have good defense? If so, then your offense will suffer somewhat.

The idea is to have different builds for different players, and all have some sort of strength and some sort of weakness. If you allow for more skills, even one more, then you will start to see builds that are very well rounded with no weaknesses, and that is not good. I realize that many players think it will be good for themselves, but keep in mind that everyone will do it then, and we will be on the road towards the system in PL where everyone of each class had the same exact build, and that gets really boring.

[Instanthumor]

Seriously, the only people that are complaining about this are you and Bless... That two people in the whole population of AL. I just did some 1v1's with a few rogues just now, and I revealed to them that I use five skills. None of them had complained, they just accepted the fact like mature, courteous folks. There is nothing wrong with 5 skills. If you are so against it, just stop 1v1ing tanks and mages. Problem solved. And I really do doubt that Delphina actually told you to make this thread... You probably just asked permission to post a horrible thread like this.

[Energizeric]

Having 4 skills is no issue to me, I've had as many as 6 at one time. But I think only being able to map 4 at one time is a good thing. If you want to have more skills, then again you are making a compromise. You will be a "jack of all trades, master of none", meaning you have used extra skill points to have 2 extra skills that will be sitting idle at all times instead of making your stats more powerful by using those skill points for passives. Again, as long as there are compromises that have to be made, then I like the system. The point is to encourage people to have different builds, and I think the current system does exactly that.

In PL we all had enough skill slots to have all 12 skills, and so just about everyone ran with the same exact build.

[Bless]

Its impossible to argue with you guys, you dont even say points, theyre just conclusions, accusations and assumptions.

You probably dont know how it feels in a rogues position to be against curse, shield, heal and 3 attack skills do you instant, we actually have a backbone to make a suggestion and argue our points instead of just posting randomly and putting others down...Ignorance is the driving force of corruption. ROGUES CANT use 5 skills, there is no way for us to do it without risking getting 2hitted. Can you not see its unfair! Can you not see this is the SUGGESTIONS section where we are putting a suggestion. When a class feels OP, it never comes to the devs and tells em: WERE OP, NERF US. Thats the exact point you guys are defending, just so you stay OP..




Oh this thread was enjoyable to read! xD

IMO, it is how it is. You say the game was intended to have 4 skill slots because the GM's made it that way, well, they also made it possible to add points to more than 4 skills, and the ability to change those 4 skills with any other skills you have added points to at any given time.

It's the way the game is. :) Don't like it, change character, or talk to the GM's about it.
thats why I wasted hours on this thread, developers look at this forum section regularly

It reminds me of a game I use to play where you had HP/SP stones, like AL's potions, and you could get extra potions as well. And while you were pvp'ing, if you used normal potions, everybody lost their minds. But the way I see it, they're apart of the game, if you can use them, they were made to be used.

Each class has their pro's and con'sbeing able to use more than 5 skills isnt a PRO of a class, its unfair to classes who cant use it, its like an exploit in a way. Deal with it or find a way to change it. ;)

my2cents ~

Edit:
& if you want to have a 1v1 pvp that is "fair" then just ask the person to comply by your "fair" rules. If they don't want to, they're probably not worth your time... or your not worth theirs :p

& @Venom " I wont be able to save Arlor with just 4 skills. Thanks!" This cracked me up xD!

[Energizeric]

Agreed, if you think battles at end game are quick now, imagine having 5 or 6 skills. It will be a question of who gets first hit, and that person will win the battle every time. If I could put up my shield and then stun you and still have 3 attack skills left to use, you would be dead before the stun wears off.

[Bless]

Energizeric gets the point...I wish AL pvp wasnt horribly different to PL pvp...Lots of skill problems

[Instanthumor]

Its impossible to argue with you guys, you dont even say points, theyre just conclusions, accusations and assumptions.

You probably dont know how it feels in a rogues position to be against curse, shield, heal and 3 attack skills do you instant, we actually have a backbone to make a suggestion and argue our points instead of just posting randomly and putting others down...

Well I'm very sorry but it really isn't my problem. I hope you also realize that I am not invincible, why don't you ask for advice from the rogues that beat me i.e. pred, aze, joy, zeus, etc. They are impossible... Why don't you go rant on your fellow rogues instead of me.

[Solid]

Its almost exactly like spamming pet skill, why did loads of people support that thread..? 5+ skills are just unfair to those who CANT DO IT AKA ROGUES and idc who wants to put skill points where, keep it fair.

The point of ctf is not to 1v1, so if you guys are going to 1v1, then atleast dont complain about my class is UP so ill use 6 skills. If you want to do something that is not intended (1v1 in the ctf arena) then face the concequences (classes have strengths and weaknesses 1v1). In a mixed class fight, you wont see people switch skills a lot - because the classes support each other...

If warriors and mages suck at 1v1 IN A CTF BASED PVP SYSTEM, it doesnt mean they should be entitled to 6 skills, why not play 5v5 like its supposed to. If you want to 1v1 then deal with it.

What would happen if a rogue would use veil, razor shield, nox, as, sp and combat medic?

Veil > razor > Packs > AS > Nox = Total annihilation regardless of the class. Heck I could put a round to any warrior in < 20 seconds with this combo. But guess what....we cant, we dont have 2 free seconds like yall do, and ofc we will be mad if we are beaten by an unfair advantage. If this is whining then so be it, its like the windmill glitch again, only with mages involved too.

#Pro

#sitdownvenom

Apply cold water to burn.

[Solid]

Seriously, the only people that are complaining about this are you and Bless... That two people in the whole population of AL. I just did some 1v1's with a few rogues just now, and I revealed to them that I use five skills. None of them had complained, they just accepted the fact like mature, courteous folks. There is nothing wrong with 5 skills. If you are so against it, just stop 1v1ing tanks and mages. Problem solved. And I really do doubt that Delphina actually told you to make this thread... You probably just asked permission to post a horrible thread like this.

We chatted for a good 45 minutes in game and she told me I should make a thread :)

[Solid]

Well I'm very sorry but it really isn't my problem. I hope you also realize that I am not invincible, why don't you ask for advice from the rogues that beat me i.e. pred, aze, joy, zeus, etc. They are impossible... Why don't you go rant on your fellow rogues instead of me.

Would they beat you if u had gear?

Hells no.

[Anarchist]

As i said earlier even on the other thread remove all exploits and fight the natural way pvp was meant to be without exploiting your skills without abusing your pet arcane ability and everybody will have their old good fights.

Do you guys remember how the portal glitch was exploited during the first days of tarlok event and the conseguences it brought on tarlok equips ?
maybe now they would have worth three times their current value eh?

Thats is the same way things will go on the pvp side of the game if you keep finding shortcuts to win you will ruin everything!! :C

[Solid]

As i said earlier even on the other thread remove all exploits and fight the natural way pvp was meant to be without exploiting your skills without abusing your pet arcane ability and everybody will have their old good fights.

Do you guys remember how the portal glitch was exploited during the first days of tarlok event and the conseguences it brought on tarlok equips ?
maybe now they would have worth three tikes their current value don' you think?

Thats is the same thing that will happen on the pvp side of the game if you keep finding shortcuts to win you will ruin everything. :C

Preach.

[Bless]

Well I'm very sorry but it really isn't my problem. I hope you also realize that I am not invincible, why don't you ask for advice from the rogues that beat me i.e. pred, aze, joy, zeus, etc. They are impossible... Why don't you go rant on your fellow rogues instead of me.

Would they beat you if u had gear?

Hells no. exactly

[Instanthumor]

Would they beat you if u had gear?

Hells no.

That goes for anyone. If one does not have gear, they will die. If my warrior vs'd your rogue, and my warrior had dev maul with deary, and you had razors with Sam... You would win. If you don't have the gear, that's your problem.
And Bless, I remember 1v1ing you a few hours ago, and I used five skills on you. You then complained about curse, so I tried vs against you with four skills, without curse, and I still won. Point is, get some skill.

[trungle123]

Lol what about elite man spam Sam is the best

[Solid]

That goes for anyone. If one does not have gear, they will die. If my warrior vs'd your rogue, and my warrior had dev maul with deary, and you had razors with Sam... You would win. If you don't have the gear, that's your problem.
And Bless, I remember 1v1ing you a few hours ago, and I used five skills on you. You then complained about curse, so I tried vs against you with four skills, without curse, and I still won. Point is, get some skill.

Lol first off, bless uses hellish helm and iced armor.

First those rogues would not beat you Zeus, pref, joy etc. if YOU were geared, why?

You have more "skills".

[Speedofsound]

I agree with bless....

I dont see any given moments when a rogue has time to swap skills in a 1v1 simply because we are always moving and have no free time.
Sure we have a charged bow stun but that can fail quite a bit actually but we would still have to use another skill AND swap in that 2-4 seconds.
Doesnt sound too promising to me.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Instanthumor]

I like how all the rogues agree with each other. Well, good luck on whatever you're trying to do. It probably won't work... Again.

[falmear]

If you boost my damage to where lightning can one shot rogues, then I'll be happy to limit myself to 4 skills.

[Energizeric]

Now I understand what is going on. We have a clear balance problem in which mages are weaker than other classes, so instead of making a case to STS that we are weaker, some of you mages are using keystroke programs to switch skills mid-fight in order to exploit the system and even things out. While I applaud your effort, you all do a disservice to everyone who plays the game as it was intended -- with 4 skills loaded during a single fight.

Instead of clearly seeing that mages are at a disadvantage, STS looks at things and sees some mages winning these fights, so they think everything is fine. Then mages like myself who do not play on a PC and cannot switch skills mid-fight are at a huge disadvantage. If I try to switch skills mid-fight, I will be dead by the time I go back to the main screen.

Like I said in the other thread talking about pets, any change to spec or pet should be followed by a 10-15 seconds delay before you can use any of the newly added items, whether they be a newly summoned pet or a new skill added.

The game was intended to be played with 4 skills and one pet. If more skills were intended, then we would have more than 4 skill buttons and if more than one pet was intended, we would have more than one pet button. Anything you do to bypass these limitations is a way of cheating. You are doing the equivalent of putting cards up your sleeve during a game of poker.

[Madnex]

This is pathetic. Switching skills mid-fight is acceptable for those who can pull it off. Rogues do it after piercing away, other classes do it on the 2 second invulnerability window. Just because you haven't learned to use it doesn't mean it's unfair.


I've played end game PvP in every single Legends game and it's always been a skill people look forward to master, not something to look down at. Yes, achieving perfect balance is impossible and this game still has a long way to get there. But, the same way rogues get to lay down their HP packs and camp around them, the same way sorcs can depend on 5th.


Imho, it'd be better to focus on the huge gap between high geared players and the rest 80% of the game before we put the magnifying glass over such small issues.

[Energizeric]

Some poker players master the art of sliding cards up their sleeve so they can choose the best hand out of more than 5 cards. Yes, it is probably an amazing skill that takes years of practice to perfect. But I don't care how you slice it, it is still cheating.

As for the issue of focussing on the huge gap between different geared players, what do you suggest they do? You make it sound like some players have lousy gear by default. Those players should work towards better gear. Every expansion I always spend the first couple of months in PvE and merching in order to improve my gear. Then I enter PvP later on when I am fully geared. And no, I do not have the best gear. I have mythics, but most of them are level 30/31 including my weapon, and it's tough to compete against players who have level 36 mythic or arcane weapons. But I do just fine. There is nothing with this issue to focus on. It is working as intended. MMOs are suppose to give an advantage to those with better gear. If they advantage was not a noticeable one, nobody would spend the time required to get the best and rarest gear.

[Ravager]

Now I understand what is going on. We have a clear balance problem in which mages are weaker than other classes, so instead of making a case to STS that we are weaker, some of you mages are using keystroke programs to switch skills mid-fight in order to exploit the system and even things out. While I applaud your effort, you all do a disservice to everyone who plays the game as it was intended -- with 4 skills loaded during a single fight.

Instead of clearly seeing that mages are at a disadvantage, STS looks at things and sees some mages winning these fights, so they think everything is fine. Then mages like myself who do not play on a PC and cannot switch skills mid-fight are at a huge disadvantage. If I try to switch skills mid-fight, I will be dead by the time I go back to the main screen.

Like I said in the other thread talking about pets, any change to spec or pet should be followed by a 10-15 seconds delay before you can use any of the newly added items, whether they be a newly summoned pet or a new skill added.

The game was intended to be played with 4 skills and one pet. If more skills were intended, then we would have more than 4 skill buttons and if more than one pet was intended, we would have more than one pet button. Anything you do to bypass these limitations is a way of cheating. You are doing the equivalent of putting cards up your sleeve during a game of poker.

We assume that it was intended to be used with 4 skills. Maybe at the beginning. Who knows in its current state. Pet spamming will be fixed soon as stated by Delphina. Im sure if they didnt want us to map skills during battle, it can easily be disabled.

In the end, this game isnt balanced for 1v1. It makes a great effort though and is enjoyable nontheless especially when there are new tactics to learn and teach.

[Speedofsound]

Now I understand what is going on. We have a clear balance problem in which mages are weaker than other classes, so instead of making a case to STS that we are weaker, some of you mages are using keystroke programs to switch skills mid-fight in order to exploit the system and even things out. While I applaud your effort, you all do a disservice to everyone who plays the game as it was intended -- with 4 skills loaded during a single fight.

Instead of clearly seeing that mages are at a disadvantage, STS looks at things and sees some mages winning these fights, so they think everything is fine. Then mages like myself who do not play on a PC and cannot switch skills mid-fight are at a huge disadvantage. If I try to switch skills mid-fight, I will be dead by the time I go back to the main screen.

Like I said in the other thread talking about pets, any change to spec or pet should be followed by a 10-15 seconds delay before you can use any of the newly added items, whether they be a newly summoned pet or a new skill added.

The game was intended to be played with 4 skills and one pet. If more skills were intended, then we would have more than 4 skill buttons and if more than one pet was intended, we would have more than one pet button. Anything you do to bypass these limitations is a way of cheating. You are doing the equivalent of putting cards up your sleeve during a game of poker.

This.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Solid]

If you boost my damage to where lightning can one shot rogues, then I'll be happy to limit myself to 4 skills.

If you give me a 2 second invulnerability I'll be happy with you skill swapping.

What do rogues have besides AS?

Epic damage reduction?
Amazing armor?
The best heal?
Any stun skills?
Heavy AoE damage?

The only the rogues have that is significant is AS,

I don't understand where you are going.

[Madnex]

Some poker players master the art of sliding cards up their sleeve so they can choose the best hand out of more than 5 cards. Yes, it is probably an amazing skill that takes years of practice to perfect. But I don't care how you slice it, it is still cheating.

As for the issue of focussing on the huge gap between different geared players, what do you suggest they do? You make it sound like some players have lousy gear by default. Those players should work towards better gear. Every expansion I always spend the first couple of months in PvE and merching in order to improve my gear. Then I enter PvP later on when I am fully geared. And no, I do not have the best gear. I have mythics, but most of them are level 30/31 including my weapon, and it's tough to compete against players who have level 36 mythic or arcane weapons. But I do just fine. There is nothing with this issue to focus on. It is working as intended. MMOs are suppose to give an advantage to those with better gear. If they advantage was not a noticeable one, nobody would spend the time required to get the best and rarest gear.
This isn't poker though. Your argument would be correct if you could compare it with AL, which is impossible. We all have "sleeves", it's a matter of practice on how fast your hands can be. Using more than 4 skills is old news; there's no exclusivity to it because anyone can do it. Therefore it's not cheating. You may see it as so because it's harder to perform on a phone but that's equipment difference and a different issue itself. You choose to play on handheld device, knowingly accepting the limitations.


As for the later matter, I'm sure you've noticed how much the rarity mechanisms have failed. Adding 2 extra rarity classes resulted in the first three (common, rare and epic) becoming useless. Mythics were supposed to be almost exclusive platinum user items dropped from grand locked crates, not the common capped player's gear as it is at the moment.

I agree it would be no fun if the best gear was attainable in the first months but looking closer, it's exactly what happens. The difference has moved to the actual mythic rarity weapons such as the lvl36 ones and the arcane ones. Anyone who buys platinum regularly already owns arcane rarity equipment, be it weapon or pets. F2P can get that too; dreaming. On second thought no, he'd have to be dreaming in a dream for that to happen. So excuse me if I can't accept this Inception-like scenario.

FYI, we're on the same boat here. The problem with PvP is, it's now synonymous to platinum purchase. Especially with the classes being imbalanced as is, it drives away the undergeared in seconds. Where's the fun in that?

[Solid]

This isn't poker though. Your argument would be correct if you could compare it with AL, which is impossible. We all have "sleeves", it's a matter of practice on how fast your hands can be. Using more than 4 skills is old news; there's no exclusivity to it because anyone can do it. Therefore it's not cheating. You may see it as so because it's harder to perform on a phone but that's equipment difference and a different issue itself. You choose to play on handheld device, knowingly accepting the limitations.


As for the later matter, I'm sure you've noticed how much the rarity mechanisms have failed. Adding 2 extra rarity classes resulted in the first three (common, rare and epic) becoming useless. Mythics were supposed to be almost exclusive platinum user items dropped from grand locked crates, not the common capped player's gear as it is at the moment.

I agree it would be no fun if the best gear was attainable in the first months but looking closer, it's exactly what happens. The difference has moved to the actual mythic rarity weapons such as the lvl36 ones and the arcane ones. Anyone who buys platinum regularly already owns arcane rarity equipment, be it weapon or pets. F2P can get that too; dreaming. On second thought no, he'd have to be dreaming in a dream for that to happen. So excuse me if I can't accept this Inception-like scenario.

FYI, we're on the same boat here. The problem with PvP is, it's now synonymous to platinum purchase. Especially with the classes being imbalanced as is, it drives away the undergeared in seconds. Where's the fun in that?

None of your points invalidated Ener's points and you even wandered off topic.

Constructive feedback please.

[Ravager]

If you boost my damage to where lightning can one shot rogues, then I'll be happy to limit myself to 4 skills.

If you give me a 2 second invulnerability I'll be happy with you skill swapping.

What do rogues have besides AS?

Epic damage reduction?
Amazing armor?
The best heal?
Any stun skills?
Heavy AoE damage?

The only the rogues have that is significant is AS,

I don't understand where you are going.

Ok this answered the entire thread for me.
So you ARE ok with the skill swapping, but on a condition. Its not about if skill swapping is ok or not but that rogues have less to no advantage doing this.

Lets change it to rebalancing PVP thread.

[Solid]

Ok this answered the entire thread for me.
So you ARE ok with the skill swapping, but on a condition. Its not about if skill swapping is ok or not but that rogues have less to no advantage doing this.

Lets change it to rebalancing PVP thread.


I am not OK with it,

I made an impractical statement to follow his even more impractical statement.

[Alhuntrazeck]

So this is just another "rogues are underpowered" thread? Jeez...

Mages switch skills to even out their disadvantage. If rogues could switch skills they'd be invincible. If mages do it they'll be competitive. Mages can switch skills while rogues cannot. What's the issue here?

[Madnex]

I believe I proved my points enough. There's no black and white in these kind of matters. Also no mod/dev is going to go through all of this to make a decision; they'll ignore it after seeing how many disagree on the first few posts.

As for going off topic, it's impossible not to; the matters of which functions me and ener debated on were designed to coexist. Gear difference issue aside, instead of 2 seconds invulnerability your class was given second best armor, second best healing(two HP regenerating skills) and max HP. Plus the best critical/dodge statistics(by far).


Stop flagging anything that doesn't appeal to your likings as inconstructive feedback. The kind of topic title you're looking for is: "Petition to disable 5+ skills(Rogues only)."

[dantus]

In the end like pet spamming skill swapping gives a huge disadvantage to non pc users. Furthermore to classes with less survivability. We all need another skill button this would even things out and mostly eliminate the need to swap skills.

[Energizeric]

In the end like pet spamming skill swapping gives a huge disadvantage to non pc users. Furthermore to classes with less survivability. We all need another skill button this would even things out and mostly eliminate the need to swap skills.

This would do nothing as then some folks would be switching out skills to add a 6th or 7th skill.

I'm not suggesting that switching out skills should be banned inside PvP. I often do it in between battles. But there should be a 5 second delay minimum before you can use that skill. If they did this one little thing, then it would fix the issue. I'm going to post this in a separate suggestion thread.

[Solid]

I believe I proved my points enough. There's no black and white in these kind of matters. Also no mod/dev is going to go through all of this to make a decision; they'll ignore it after seeing how many disagree on the first few posts.

As for going off topic, it's impossible not to; the matters of which functions me and ener debated on were designed to coexist. Gear difference issue aside, instead of 2 seconds invulnerability your class was given second best armor, second best healing(two HP regenerating skills) and max HP. Plus the best critical/dodge statistics(by far).


Stop flagging anything that doesn't appeal to your likings as inconstructive feedback. The kind of topic title you're looking for is: "Petition to disable 5+ skills(Rogues only)."

What are your points? I see none, sorry. We have the worst heal, - warriors have best, mages even heal mana. Max crit and dodge? Sorcerers have 5k mama? Tanks have 2k armor and 6k health?

Moral- rogues have aimed shot.

[falmear]

If you give me a 2 second invulnerability I'll be happy with you skill swapping.

What do rogues have besides AS?

Epic damage reduction?
Amazing armor?
The best heal?
Any stun skills?
Heavy AoE damage?

The only the rogues have that is significant is AS,

I don't understand where you are going.

Mages don't do enough damage with 2 attack skills. This is why mages use 3 attack skills and 2 defensive. To meet rogues head on we need 3 attack skills. Mage's heal is the worst heal in the game by the amount it heals and on a percentage basis. Also this season shield breaks very fast in a fight and doesn't last 15 seconds. So this is where I am going with this, if you want to limit everyone to 4 skills, then mages will need a boost in damage and armor. We don't generate enough damage with just 2 attack skills. Forget about what you see in the stats screen this is purely vanity at this point. Rogues do the most damage this is an indisputable fact. Mages are forced to use 2 defensive skills and one of them is the worst in the game. As to what rogues have besides AS:

1) Epic armor reduction
2) The best heal on a percentage basis (90%) even if you sacrafice damage. So can increase your str and lower your damage without affecting how much you heal. No other class can do this.
3) 30% more armor then mages
4) 3 attack skills without having to use 5 skills which basically is risking death for a mage if you try to switch at the wrong time.

If you don't like playing a rogue go start a warrior or mage if using 5 skills is so OP. But I can tell you despite all of this rogues still get the most kills. But I would rather see 4 skills because the entire skill switching is pretty sad. By far the worst game play I ever countered in any game to date. The amount of screens I have to flip through to get there is bad UI design. And the fact to be successful in PvP I have to do this is pretty ridiculous. This has nothing to do with build. It comes down to the simple fact of numbers. 3 skills will do more damage then 2. And the 2 defensive skills we have are pretty weak. But I see most of these debates entirely pointless because you're not going to see our side and certainly I am not convinced of yours based on what I see and experience on a daily basis.

[Solid]

Mages don't do enough damage with 2 attack skills. This is why mages use 3 attack skills and 2 defensive. To meet rogues head on we need 3 attack skills. Mage's heal is the worst heal in the game by the amount it heals and on a percentage basis. Also this season shield breaks very fast in a fight and doesn't last 15 seconds. So this is where I am going with this, if you want to limit everyone to 4 skills, then mages will need a boost in damage and armor. We don't generate enough damage with just 2 attack skills. Forget about what you see in the stats screen this is purely vanity at this point. Rogues do the most damage this is an indisputable fact. Mages are forced to use 2 defensive skills and one of them is the worst in the game. As to what rogues have besides AS:

1) Epic armor reduction
2) The best heal on a percentage basis (90%) even if you sacrafice damage. So can increase your str and lower your damage without affecting how much you heal. No other class can do this.
3) 30% more armor then mages
4) 3 attack skills without having to use 5 skills which basically is risking death for a mage if you try to switch at the wrong time.

If you don't like playing a rogue go start a warrior or mage if using 5 skills is so OP. But I can tell you despite all of this rogues still get the most kills. But I would rather see 4 skills because the entire skill switching is pretty sad. By far the worst game play I ever countered in any game to date. The amount of screens I have to flip through to get there is bad UI design. And the fact to be successful in PvP I have to do this is pretty ridiculous. This has nothing to do with build. It comes down to the simple fact of numbers. 3 skills will do more damage then 2. And the 2 defensive skills we have are pretty weak. But I see most of these debates entirely pointless because you're not going to see our side and certainly I am not convinced of yours based on what I see and experience on a daily basis.

No one has limited you to 2 attack skills.

I just think "having" to use more than 4 is pathetic and unfair.

If you play a rogue you know your heal is bad, 75% of the time they glitch, you don't get them in time, someone steals, or are too far from you.

Armor reduction, where?
We have 3 attack skills because we don't have any debuff or stuns skills.

[falmear]

No one has limited you to 2 attack skills.

I just think "having" to use more than 4 is pathetic and unfair.

If you play a rogue you know your heal is bad, 75% of the time they glitch, you don't get them in time, someone steals, or are too far from you.

Armor reduction, where?
We have 3 attack skills because we don't have any debuff or stuns skills.

1) By design mages are limited to 2 attack skills. You have to you shield otherwise you're dead by being potentially one hit or combo'd by a rogue. And we also need heal to recover our own health and give mana to the group. If you're strictly talking 1v1 against a rogue then I don't use heal because the fight doesn't last that long and lifegiver is useless.
2) Whatever you don't like about packs, it heals the most on a percentage basis and not including healing over time. 3 packs = 90% plus heal over time. Sorry I can't be sad for you when my heal barely gives me 50%.
3) Last upgrade on Aimed shot called Shatter Armor does 15% armor reduction for 5 seconds. I don't know how you can say you don't have any armor reduction or no debuffs when its clearly stated right on your skills screen. Also if you want to get technical, shadow pierce has a 15% chance to reduce 10% armor.
4) Rogues can stun, they can use charged attack on a bow or use a pet that stuns/panics.

Whether its unfair or pathetic, I'll let you be the judge of that.

[Solid]

1) By design mages are limited to 2 attack skills. You have to you shield otherwise you're dead by being potentially one hit or combo'd by a rogue. And we also need heal to recover our own health and give mana to the group. If you're strictly talking 1v1 against a rogue then I don't use heal because the fight doesn't last that long and lifegiver is useless.
2) Whatever you don't like about packs, it heals the most on a percentage basis and not including healing over time. 3 packs = 90% plus heal over time. Sorry I can't be sad for you when my heal barely gives me 50%.
3) Last upgrade on Aimed shot called Shatter Armor does 15% armor reduction for 5 seconds. I don't know how you can say you don't have any armor reduction or no debuffs when its clearly stated right on your skills screen. Also if you want to get technical, shadow pierce has a 15% chance to reduce 10% armor.
4) Rogues can stun, they can use charged attack on a bow or use a pet that stuns/panics.

Whether its unfair or pathetic, I'll let you be the judge of that.

The best 1v1 mages use 3 attack skills. By design mages are limited to 2? This is purely your opinion. For pve I use 4 attack skills.

High heal %? It would be awesome if I was guaranteed to get all 3 packs and receive the full %. In clashes I'll be lucky if I get 1 of those packs or if a full 3 actually come.

15% armor reduction is epic? Define epic... Also nobody uses armor reduction on piercer...

We don't have STUN SKILLS, every class can charge attack or use a stun pet. Mages have fireball, tanks have skyward smash, and rogues have no stun skills.

Next.

[falmear]

The best 1v1 mages use 3 attack skills. By design mages are limited to 2? This is purely your opinion. For pve I use 4 attack skills.

High heal %? It would be awesome if I was guaranteed to get all 3 packs and receive the full %. In clashes I'll be lucky if I get 1 of those packs or if a full 3 actually come.

15% armor reduction is epic? Define epic... Also nobody uses armor reduction on piercer...

We don't have STUN SKILLS, every class can charge attack or use a stun pet. Mages have fireball, tanks have skyward smash, and rogues have no stun skills.

Next.

In a 5v5 match you need 2 defensive skills. In a 1v1 match between mages and warriors you need a 2 defensive skills. Only in a 1v1 match against a rogue can you run only one defensive skill. Prove me wrong. As for PvE are you kidding me? We are talking PvP and you bring up PvE? In PvP mages by design are limited to 2 attack skills because they have to spec 2 defensive skills. Unless they don't use life giver then you have rogues crying about mana. Which is okay with me since I got plenty of it and if there is a warrior or two, their healing is enough for me.

My arcane staff doesn't stun on charged attack. So not every class or weapon does. I wish it did. Seems like you need to spend a little more time reading your own skills page and researching what weapons do then generalizing.

[Solid]

In a 5v5 match you need 2 defensive skills. In a 1v1 match between mages and warriors you need a 2 defensive skills. Only in a 1v1 match against a rogue can you run only one defensive skill. Prove me wrong. As for PvE are you kidding me? We are talking PvP and you bring up PvE? In PvP mages by design are limited to 2 attack skills because they have to spec 2 defensive skills. Unless they don't use life giver then you have rogues crying about mana. Which is okay with me since I got plenty of it and if there is a warrior or two, their healing is enough for me.

My arcane staff doesn't stun on charged attack. So not every class or weapon does. I wish it did. Seems like you need to spend a little more time reading your own skills page and researching what weapons do then generalizing.

Again, 2 defensive skills is your opinion and is based on playstyle.

The arcane staff not stunning on charged is obviously a trade off, as it has the capability to do 15% DMG to a rogue when its auto attack is charged. But, MOST WEAPONS STUN ON CHARGED AUTO.
spend more time reading skills page, are you referring me not knowing there was an armor reduction skill? I was confused because you said an EPIC armor reduction skill. Maybe your excessive overaggerations are confusing people.

[falmear]

The arcane staff not stunning on charged is obviously a trade off, as it has the capability to do 15% DMG to a rogue when its auto attack is charged. But, MOST WEAPONS STUN ON CHARGED AUTO.

Maybe you can enlighten me on what this 15% DMG to a rogue is on a charged auto attack. I have never heard of this before. Nor have I seen it in my testing.

[Solid]

Maybe you can enlighten me on what this 15% DMG to a rogue is on a charged auto attack. I have never heard of this before. Nor have I seen it in my testing.

Pretty sure it was hali, when he charged his auto attack (hold down the staff icon and release at opponent) it took me to 85%.

[falmear]

Pretty sure it was hali, when he charged his auto attack (hold down the staff icon and release at opponent) it took me to 85%.

Non-charged attack does more damage. Charging arcane staff is useless.

[Solid]

Non-charged attack does more damage. Charging arcane staff is useless.

Proc.

[Bless]

Some poker players master the art of sliding cards up their sleeve so they can choose the best hand out of more than 5 cards. Yes, it is probably an amazing skill that takes years of practice to perfect. But I don't care how you slice it, it is still cheating.

As for the issue of focussing on the huge gap between different geared players, what do you suggest they do? You make it sound like some players have lousy gear by default. Those players should work towards better gear. Every expansion I always spend the first couple of months in PvE and merching in order to improve my gear. Then I enter PvP later on when I am fully geared. And no, I do not have the best gear. I have mythics, but most of them are level 30/31 including my weapon, and it's tough to compete against players who have level 36 mythic or arcane weapons. But I do just fine. There is nothing with this issue to focus on. It is working as intended. MMOs are suppose to give an advantage to those with better gear. If they advantage was not a noticeable one, nobody would spend the time required to get the best and rarest gear.

Yes mages are weaker in a 1v1, but they arent built for single target so they shouldnt be doing 1v1 in the first place, like i said if they want to do 1v1s in a ctf based game then face the concequences. Mages are fine in 5v5s.

[Bless]

None of us will admit our classes are op, thus its a pointless argument.

[Madnex]

None of us will admit our classes are op, thus its a pointless argument.
That cracked me up lol. So wait, who said sorcs are OP in PvP?

I admit we are PvE monsters, yet I thought this was PvP based conversation.

I agree that these debates are most likely of no real importance and have no real chances of changing the game unless more people join them or at least support the main debaters. Also, I do consider pet spamming unfair since not everyone has access to pets that can panic or stun. That's why it's going to be fixed.

I'll gladly come back to this topic once our skills are rebalanced to make a feasible PvP build that can counter any class 1v1 possible. Saying that sorcs can't and shouldn't PvP is plain unfair; rogues can easily balance their lack of AoE skills with potions while keeping their extreme damage/crit rates, making it the best or second best all around class. Somehow that doesn't sit well, does it.

[Bless]

None of us will admit our classes are op, thus its a pointless argument.
That cracked me up lol. So wait, who said sorcs are OP in PvP?

I admit we are PvE monsters, yet I thought this was PvP based conversation.

I agree that these debates are most likely of no real importance and have no real chances of changing the game unless more people join them or at least support the main debaters. Also, I do consider pet spamming unfair since not everyone has access to pets that can panic or stun. That's why it's going to be fixed.

I'll gladly come back to this topic once our skills are rebalanced to make a feasible PvP build that can counter any class 1v1 possible. Saying that sorcs can't and shouldn't PvP is plain unfair; rogues can easily balance their lack of AoE skills with potions while keeping their extreme damage/crit rates, making it the best or second best all around class. Somehow that doesn't sit well, does it. You just proved my point...did I say anything about specific classes? People will obv support their class because they dont want to get nerfed.

[Ravager]

Is switching loadouts going to be cheating too? It involves going to the menu and pressing a button. I used to do this while jug cools down.

[Instanthumor]

Now I understand what is going on. We have a clear balance problem in which mages are weaker than other classes, so instead of making a case to STS that we are weaker, some of you mages are using keystroke programs to switch skills mid-fight in order to exploit the system and even things out. While I applaud your effort, you all do a disservice to everyone who plays the game as it was intended -- with 4 skills loaded during a single fight.

Instead of clearly seeing that mages are at a disadvantage, STS looks at things and sees some mages winning these fights, so they think everything is fine. Then mages like myself who do not play on a PC and cannot switch skills mid-fight are at a huge disadvantage. If I try to switch skills mid-fight, I will be dead by the time I go back to the main screen.

Like I said in the other thread talking about pets, any change to spec or pet should be followed by a 10-15 seconds delay before you can use any of the newly added items, whether they be a newly summoned pet or a new skill added.

The game was intended to be played with 4 skills and one pet. If more skills were intended, then we would have more than 4 skill buttons and if more than one pet was intended, we would have more than one pet button. Anything you do to bypass these limitations is a way of cheating. You are doing the equivalent of putting cards up your sleeve during a game of poker.

Just wanna emphasize that you do not need pc to switch skills. I am not a pc player myself, yet I use (and switch) five skills. In fact, it is way easier to switch skills on Ipad or Tablet (without using these 'keystoke programs'), only takes 1-2 seconds.

[Madnex]

You just proved my point...did I say anything about specific classes? People will obv support their class because they dont want to get nerfed.
I play all three classes, with sorc as main. I've delved into each class's skills and combo possibilities long ago before this thread came up.

I do not wish for the other two classes to be nerfed necessarily but it's obvious that a little tweaking on sorcs is a little more than needed at this point. Objectively, it's the correct decision. The isn't your daily war newb who wants to squash blue smurfs without resistance even easier (yes, we all remember that hilarious incident), this is a large portion of top geared, experienced sorcs that's currently getting the cold shoulder on PvP.

Pay attention now; I didn't say boost or enhance, I said tweak. I'll happily trade off some of sorc's one too many PvE stuns/roots or DoT's for a better PvP survivability rate. Sorc skills are full of holes, ice and FB DoT's mean literally nothing in PvP; time shift is plain inefficient since there's no root and as both wars and rogs can skysmash/pierce out of it, without even wasting a skill.

As a rogue, I'd sacrifice some of the countless extra damage or extra crit per shot unlocks for single targe to AoE changing unlocks. Problem is, wars and rogues possess some sufficient AoE features already and since PvE-PvP AoE gap is covered by team ups and potion spamming, you can't realize the difference. The role of sorc as support is tending to be rendered completely useless and as a PvE class it's plainly preferrable, not necessary. I don't even bother swapping to lifegiver anymore on Elite runs anymore; potions heals 30% HP 3 times in 4 seconds.

I don't know where exactly our HP and armor, as wars, went totally through the roof but the latest arcanes certainly had something to do about it. To be fair, the 2 second invulnerability needs to be traded for stats like dodge or crit. The initial cast heal could be slightly improved, in that case. This will effectively deal with the invincibility mode wars can go into (which has become really lethal after our damage output has been raised twice past few months). I've been winning with ease even over arcane geared sorcs by pure brute force and a bit of correct skill timing. Rogues are a little harder but the trick is not to let them wear you out of your mana.


Tbh, rogues and wars can PvP each other just fine. Overpowered critical hits, damage buffs and armor debuffs are countered with overpowered armor, HP and stuns. It just appears like sorcs weren't cut out to be enabled in this PvP fun, which is unacceptable since it's limiting us to PvE and leading to cheap tricks like undergeared players hunting or kill farming.

[Haligali]

I think that lock the swapping of skill which on cooldown is a good idea.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

my opinion if you want to hear it.

well some of you warriors are sayin that yes this is acceptable because there are rogues with 4 skills that can beat you 1 on 1, not mentioning names but you have an idea who these persons are. well those rogues are full mythic + sameal i believe. Not everyone has these.

i realise that AL is a growing game and there are more than enough skill point so you now have multiple skils. well i think its ok to 'have' more than 4 skills. *my opinion* i think skiils are meant to be switched between pve and pvp.

what this thread is about is not whether 5+ skills are acceptable its about how you use them. i think it has something to do with chivalry . what i mean by this out of fairness of a 1v1 a rogue using 4 skills would want you as a warrior to play with 4 also and same applys for mage vs rogue. i use 6 skills on my mage and i swap between skills for pvp and pve. in pvp i sacrifice heal for shield + 3 offensive skills.

if you skip to 13:00 this is how pvp 1v1 should be played using 5 skills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X2IObnmP4U
and thats how i play 1v1 also

i mean sometimes i just watch players stats in 4v4 clashes and the warriors are using 5 skills and 5 seconds after the whole team are dead the warrior is still hacking away lol. its a little unfair but the will to live is strong in anything

But anyways nothing anyone can do unless devs do something. But in the 1v1 situation I would say that in the it's only fair that you use the same amount of skills as your opponent

[Bless]

I think that lock the swapping of skill which on cooldown is a good idea. thats what we want!

[Bless]

my opinion if you want to hear it.

well some of you warriors are sayin that yes this is acceptable because there are rogues with 4 skills that can beat you 1 on 1, not mentioning names but you have an idea who these persons are. well those rogues are full mythic + sameal i believe. Not everyone has these.

i realise that AL is a growing game and there are more than enough skill point so you now have multiple skils. well i think its ok to 'have' more than 4 skills. *my opinion* i think skiils are meant to be switched between pve and pvp.

what this thread is about is not whether 5+ skills are acceptable its about how you use them. i think it has something to do with chivalry . what i mean by this out of fairness of a 1v1 a rogue using 4 skills would want you as a warrior to play with 4 also and same applys for mage vs rogue. i use 6 skills on my mage and i swap between skills for pvp and pve. in pvp i sacrifice heal for shield + 3 offensive skills.

if you skip to 13:00 this is how pvp 1v1 should be played using 5 skills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X2IObnmP4U
and thats how i play 1v1 also

i mean sometimes i just watch players stats in 4v4 clashes and the warriors are using 5 skills and 5 seconds after the whole team are dead the warrior is still hacking away lol. its a little unfair but the will to live is strong in anything

But anyways nothing anyone can do unless devs do something. But in the 1v1 situation I would say that in the it's only fair that you use the same amount of skills as your opponent I like how you put things. Its op to use 4+ skills and everyone who is reading this knows it and dont reply saying its not op because it is. Rofl i can down a mage in under 10 seconds with 6 skills and a warrior in under 20...why would you think its ok to do the same.

[Madnex]

I like how you put things. Its op to use 4+ skills and everyone who is reading this knows it and dont reply saying its not op because it is. Rofl i can down a mage in under 10 seconds with 6 skills and a warrior in under 20...why would you think its ok to do the same.
This made my day lol. "Don't reply because we all know my opinion is the correct one". Nice.

If you could use 5th and 6th we wouldn't be having this conversation. Your whole argument was based on how unfair it is for sorcs to use it since it's not as effective for rogues. Contradiction level cap.

[Speedofsound]

Yes mages are weaker in a 1v1, but they arent built for single target so they shouldnt be doing 1v1 in the first place, like i said if they want to do 1v1s in a ctf based game then face the concequences. Mages are fine in 5v5s.

This is also a point. why should mages dominate in 1v1? Sts has not made a 1v1 arena and ctf is team based as well as tdm. From what ive seen mages show worth in 5v5 with only 4 skills.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Solid]

This made my day lol. "Don't reply because we all know my opinion is the correct one". Nice.

If you could use 5th and 6th we wouldn't be having this conversation. Your whole argument was based on how unfair it is for sorcs to use it since it's not as effective for rogues. Contradiction level cap.


It's hard arguing with people who don't understand things in-depth...

[Madnex]

This has been a shallow misplaced complaint thread from the beginning. The only real issue that has surfaced through this useless debate is --apparently-- the frequent use of recorded keystrokes to gain unfair advantage on PvP.

Since you're all so confident about using 5th and "owning" us all, why don't you do just that? Do you seriously expect anyone to believe you made this thread out of ethical dilemmas concerning the purity and fairness of PvP?


It's hard arguing with people who don't understand things in-depth...
Oh please, enlighten us with your in-depth explanation of the matter.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

Why cant we just be friends??!!! :P

[Rare]

Why cant we just be friends??!!! :P

That's not any fun :D

[Bless]

This has been a shallow misplaced complaint thread from the beginning. The only real issue that has surfaced through this useless debate is --apparently-- the frequent use of recorded keystrokes to gain unfair advantage on PvP.

Since you're all so confident about using 5th and "owning" us all, why don't you do just that? Do you seriously expect anyone to believe you made this thread out of ethical dilemmas concerning the purity and fairness of PvP?


It's hard arguing with people who don't understand things in-depth...
Oh please, enlighten us with your in-depth explanation of the matter. You probably dont pvp much on your rogue, because if you pvp for just 10minutes youll see that rogues have THE worst survivability out of all 3 classes - mages have arcane shield which doubles their survivability.

Both mages and warriors have a 2sec invincibility -thats the easiest way to switch skills..

That being said, rogues are unable to use 5 skills. You have a rogue dont you, why dont you fight me with 5+ skills with ur rogue

[Energizeric]

The reason why rogues would not use 5 skills is because rogue skills have very short cooldowns, so there would be no advantage to switching skills while waiting for cooldown since it would actually take longer than just waiting for your current skills to cooldown. For warriors and sorcerers, we have some skills with very long cooldowns, so that's why players are using this exploit.

But I could see one situation where a rogue could use 5 skills. At the beginning of the battle, drop your health packs, then switch out that skill immediately for another attack skill and then attack.

[Bless]

The reason why rogues would not use 5 skills is because rogue skills have very short cooldowns, so there would be no advantage to switching skills while waiting for cooldown since it would actually take longer than just waiting for your current skills to cooldown. For warriors and sorcerers, we have some skills with very long cooldowns, so that's why players are using this exploit.

But I could see one situation where a rogue could use 5 skills. At the beginning of the battle, drop your health packs, then switch out that skill immediately for another attack skill and then attack. Its a good suggestion however not ALL rogues (even undergeared) have the health of 3500+, its quite easy to snipe someone if theyre sitting there, especially against rogues and maes with critpower. Imho the risks topple over the benefits so I wouldnt use it. Yep agreed with ener, mages and warriors dont want to wait for cooldowns so they use another skill. Inarguably, his sounds EXACTLY like the pet spam exploit because warriors and mages dont like cooldowns and therefore swap it with another skill.

In a previous fight with a mage, the mage uses charged arcane shield, after using arcane shield, a mage will never use it again in a fight so they switch it with another skill because they dont want to wait for cd. Then they curse, lightning, fireball and heal if necessary. So after reading this, you 4+ skill users dont consider it an exploit? This way mages get SUPER survivability from arcane shield, then they get a heal which helps them survie and they get 3 ATTACK SKILLS! Thats not an exploit? With warriors its probably similar.

My 2 cents: Imo this is in no way a tactic, if you think its a smart tactic and therefore exploit cooldowns, then you should get punished, youre no worse than the other cheaters as you are also abusing cooldowns to gain unfair advantages. If you're weak then get gear instead of an extra skill. Its not hard to kill other classes with 4 skills when you have gear and skill, or maybe stick to your role? Warriors are built around tanking, so why use 5+ skills to tank AND dps? Pick either one with 4 skills...Mages arent built for 1v1ing in the first place but 5 mages vs 5 rogues WHO would win? They are a team and support/dps class not single target - which is a 1v1.

[Uzii]

My 2 cents: Imo this is in no way a tactic, if you think its a smart tactic and therefore exploit cooldowns, then you should get punished, youre no worse than the other cheaters as you are also abusing cooldowns to gain unfair advantages. If you're weak then get gear instead of an extra skill. Its not hard to kill other classes with 4 skills when you have gear and skill, or maybe stick to your role? Warriors are built around tanking, so why use 5+ skills to tank AND dps? Pick either one with 4 skills...Mages arent built for 1v1ing in the first place but 5 mages vs 5 rogues WHO would win? They are a team and support/dps class not single target - which is a 1v1.

What cooldown? Changing skills normal way (i mean go to menu and so on) takes few seconds within those I can be dead. It depends on how fast u r with ur fingers, and u do it in ur own risk. Its like new skill that just didnt get the spot yet (i think sooner or later we will need that spot) and when u switch to the previous skill its still in cooldown if its a skill with high cooldown time. So there is no abusing of any cooldown unless u using those keystrokes or whatever, but that is unfair even with only 4 skills

[Bless]

My 2 cents: Imo this is in no way a tactic, if you think its a smart tactic and therefore exploit cooldowns, then you should get punished, youre no worse than the other cheaters as you are also abusing cooldowns to gain unfair advantages. If you're weak then get gear instead of an extra skill. Its not hard to kill other classes with 4 skills when you have gear and skill, or maybe stick to your role? Warriors are built around tanking, so why use 5+ skills to tank AND dps? Pick either one with 4 skills...Mages arent built for 1v1ing in the first place but 5 mages vs 5 rogues WHO would win? They are a team and support/dps class not single target - which is a 1v1.

What cooldown? Changing skills normal way (i mean go to menu and so on) takes few seconds within those I can be dead. It depends on how fast u r with ur fingers, and u do it in ur own risk. Its like new skill that just didnt get the spot yet (i think sooner or later we will need that spot) and when u switch to the previous skill its still in cooldown if its a skill with high cooldown time. So there is no abusing of any cooldown unless u using those keystrokes or whatever, but that is unfair even with only 4 skills Escaping CD as in: They use a skill, say arcane shield which has a 20+ sec cd, they dont want to wait 20+ sec so they replace shield with an attack skill eg. Lightning.

See now?

[Uzii]

Escaping CD as in: They use a skill, say arcane shield which has a 20+ sec cd, they dont want to wait 20+ sec so they replace shield with an attack skill eg. Lightning.

See now?

No, thats not escaping any cooldown that is just using 5th skill. U cant forbid to use it, players got the skill points they allocate them to skills they wanted and now they using it, its hard way tough bc as i said switching is risky.
U cant dictate ppl how to play, and im sorry but thats what u r trying to do

[Instanthumor]

No, thats not escaping any cooldown that is just using 5th skill. U cant forbid to use it, players got the skill points they allocate them to skills they wanted and now they using it, its hard way tough bc as i said switching is risky.
U cant dictate ppl how to play, and im sorry but thats what u r trying to do

True facts here. And btw, this is coming from a rogue's perspective. +1 to you Uzii.

[Anarchist]

No, thats not escaping any cooldown that is just using 5th skill. U cant forbid to use it, players got the skill points they allocate them to skills they wanted and now they using it, its hard way tough bc as i said switching is risky.
U cant dictate ppl how to play, and im sorry but thats what u r trying to do

When devs will put a nice 10sec cooldown on the skill changed you will see how fast they will stop switching skills during fights ^^

[Instanthumor]

When devs will put a nice 10sec cooldown on the skill changed you will see how fast they will stop switching skills during fights ^^

Let's see if this will happen. I think not.

[Anarchist]

Let's see if this will happen. I think not.

Just be hoping it doesn't cause if it does mages and wars have finish exploiting.

what leaves me perplexed most is that mages are so concentrated in trying to beat rogues, they are already capable of beating, supporting this skill exploit thing and can't see who is really benefitting from the whole matter are wars now they can also add juggernauth in their build. Aren't you happy? c:

Players are acting base on their current interest, the one they see right in front of their noses and not looking at the whole situation. Nice. c:

[Bless]

Escaping CD as in: They use a skill, say arcane shield which has a 20+ sec cd, they dont want to wait 20+ sec so they replace shield with an attack skill eg. Lightning.

See now?

No, thats not escaping any cooldown that is just using 5th skill. U cant forbid to use it, players got the skill points they allocate them to skills they wanted and now they using it, its hard way tough bc as i said switching is risky.
U cant dictate ppl how to play, and im sorry but thats what u r trying to do Using a 5th skill? Thats not what everyone has a chance to do and thats what I have a problem with. Lets 1v1 uzi, u try to switch skills in midfight and see the result. ITS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to switch as a rogue because of our limted survivability. We only have our heal packs in pvp as a heal, 99% rogues dont use razor or other skills except packs, As, sp, nox. Without these four we wouldnt fulfill our role, and with these four skills its way too risky to switch unlike mages or wars.


And yes it is escaping a CD as they switch the skills and use another one MIDFIGHT. I doubt any mage will refuse a chance to do a double arcane shield but since they dont have that chance, they replace it with another attack skill. As for telling people how to play, we should all have a fair chance to use 4+ skills OR NONE OF US can do it.

Sts allowed us to spec 5 and more skills to switch between pvp/pve or ctf/tdm, or use different builds for different situations NOT for switching the CD skills midfight and im pretty sure about this because pvp wasnt invented in early S2 where we could spe 5 skills.


You guys just dont see the other perspectives. Insta may I ask the honest reason you switch skills? Is it because 4 skills cant suffice? You dont wish to wait to CD?

And I do want the cooldowns to stay on the skill slots, so then you ppl wont exploit the system just to use 5 skills. If it was implemented, would you still use 5+skills?

[falmear]

I find it funny that rogues are the ones crying about this but they have the best KDR in the game. Anything that threatens this seems like the end of the world. And please don't tell me about previous seasons. You can look at people's TDM kdr which was only released last season. And rogues still have the best KDR. People don't use 5 skills to avoid the cool down. Its because the 2 defensive skills mages have aren't good enough. Shield only lasts for 15 seconds with a 30 second cool down. When you are fighting a rogue with mythic daggers, shield breaks very fast. It doesn't last 15 seconds. And lifegiver doesn't recover enough health. And once shield is down you are instantly killed. So using lifegiver in a lot of situations is basically useless. Not every class is the same and not every class has 5 skills which can be used in PvP. If you don't like it then create another class and start playing it. In fact you should be able to use all your skills regardless. Being limited to only 4 skills is rather silly. You should have the option to add a 5th or 6th skill to the HUD if you want. People have extra skill points now so it makes sense to have more skills on the HUD.

[Solid]

I find it funny that rogues are the ones crying about this but they have the best KDR in the game. Anything that threatens this seems like the end of the world. And please don't tell me about previous seasons. You can look at people's TDM kdr which was only released last season. And rogues still have the best KDR. People don't use 5 skills to avoid the cool down. Its because the 2 defensive skills mages have aren't good enough. Shield only lasts for 15 seconds with a 30 second cool down. When you are fighting a rogue with mythic daggers, shield breaks very fast. It doesn't last 15 seconds. And lifegiver doesn't recover enough health. And once shield is down you are instantly killed. So using lifegiver in a lot of situations is basically useless. Not every class is the same and not every class has 5 skills which can be used in PvP. If you don't like it then create another class and start playing it. In fact you should be able to use all your skills regardless. Being limited to only 4 skills is rather silly. You should have the option to add a 5th or 6th skill to the HUD if you want. People have extra skill points now so it makes sense to have more skills on the HUD.

Kdr means nothing. Crying rogues? Yes ener is a rogue. 5/6 slots? Class equality was built on the idea that you would use 4 skills, basically a checks and balance system.

How I see using more than 4 skills is -

*Obese person walks to a stand*

Stand- Please take one COOKIE

*Obese person grabs 3 cookies*

[Cero]

Sigh, this guys.
As i pointed out on the previews pages, warriors and sorc switch to survive and kill other classes.
What exploit of nonesense are you talking about? Others switch because 4skill isn't enough to take down the rogues.
Most annoying part is you guys are crying because its "unfair, we are the weakest, we die easy, etc BS etc"
Which class can two hits? One hit? Or use samael stunlock and spam arrows?

AL has 4skill slot available but that doesn't mean that you can just play with only 4skills. It's dumb if you think that way.

[falmear]

Kdr means nothing. Crying rogues? Yes ener is a rogue. 5/6 slots? Class equality was built on the idea that you would use 4 skills, basically a checks and balance system.

How I see using more than 4 skills is -

*Obese person walks to a stand*

Stand- Please take one COOKIE

*Obese person grabs 3 cookies*

KDR demonstrates how well the class can survive in PvP. If you're very squishy then you die easier hence you'll end but with a worse KDR. This is when looking at KDRs overall and not just one specific person. Overall rogues have the best KDR. So previous posts which say mages have super survivability and rogues have limited survivability is wrong and proven in any 1v1 and 5v5 fight. If you are only talking about mages vs rogue in a 1v1 fight then this is not a realistic picture. As for using 4 skills vs 5 skills, I wouldn't use 5 skills mid combat. But I do use 5 skills and I switch when its safe or if I die. It depends on the situation, the make up of my team and the make up of the other team. If someone wants to risk it to switch skills mid combat then that's up to them. Its a big risk and could mean they'll die.

[Alhuntrazeck]

You probably dont pvp much on your rogue, because if you pvp for just 10minutes youll see that rogues have THE worst survivability out of all 3 classes - mages have arcane shield which doubles their survivability.

Both mages and warriors have a 2sec invincibility -thats the easiest way to switch skills..

That being said, rogues are unable to use 5 skills. You have a rogue dont you, why dont you fight me with 5+ skills with ur rogue

Its called a trade-off...warriors n mages don't have god-like crits, 1 hit abilities, and Ofc they dont get most of the kills in the team. Like Fal said, just look at mages' kdrs...

And why cant you switch skills on a rogue? Doing it while the mage switches seems possible, no?

[Solid]

KDR demonstrates how well the class can survive in PvP. If you're very squishy then you die easier hence you'll end but with a worse KDR. This is when looking at KDRs overall and not just one specific person. Overall rogues have the best KDR. So previous posts which say mages have super survivability and rogues have limited survivability is wrong and proven in any 1v1 and 5v5 fight. If you are only talking about mages vs rogue in a 1v1 fight then this is not a realistic picture. As for using 4 skills vs 5 skills, I wouldn't use 5 skills mid combat. But I do use 5 skills and I switch when its safe or if I die. It depends on the situation, the make up of my team and the make up of the other team. If someone wants to risk it to switch skills mid combat then that's up to them. Its a big risk and could mean they'll die.

Kdr represents a classes ability to KS.

[Solid]

Its called a trade-off...warriors n mages don't have god-like crits, 1 hit abilities, and Ofc they dont get most of the kills in the team. Like Fal said, just look at mages' kdrs...

And why cant you switch skills on a rogue? Doing it while the mage switches seems possible, no?

A sorc can crit me to 15%.

[Solid]

Its called a trade-off...warriors n mages don't have god-like crits, 1 hit abilities, and Ofc they dont get most of the kills in the team. Like Fal said, just look at mages' kdrs...

And why cant you switch skills on a rogue? Doing it while the mage switches seems possible, no?

Unless you can read minds or come to an agreement as to when to swap, its is impossible to synch swaps.

[Rianaku]

Its impossible to argue with you guys, you dont even say points, theyre just conclusions, accusations and assumptions.

You probably dont know how it feels in a rogues position to be against curse, shield, heal and 3 attack skills do you instant, we actually have a backbone to make a suggestion and argue our points instead of just posting randomly and putting others down...Ignorance is the driving force of corruption. ROGUES CANT use 5 skills, there is no way for us to do it without risking getting 2hitted. Can you not see its unfair! Can you not see this is the SUGGESTIONS section where we are putting a suggestion. When a class feels OP, it never comes to the devs and tells em: WERE OP, NERF US. Thats the exact point you guys are defending, just so you stay OP..

I'm sorry, I just believe that it's not exploiting the game. The GM's have allowed the access to remap our skills at any stage. The fact that Rogues cannot is simply because they can, but it would not work as much in their favour.
So the way I see it, you're complaining because something isn't working in your favour? And personally I believe that it's pointless. Instead of complaining why not figure out a way to be better than others regardless or the circumstances instead of just getting frustrated?

I don't overly know what it's like being a Rogue because I enjoy being a warrior, and I also don't overly enjoy PvP because there are so many people who get angry over it, and in the end, it's just a game. :)

Peace ~

[Alhuntrazeck]

Unless you can read minds or come to an agreement as to when to swap, its is impossible to synch swaps.

When the sorc isn't moving...or if hes in your party and a busy Icon shows up.

[Alhuntrazeck]

A sorc can crit me to 15%.

Right, and you can 1 hit us. Besides, only arcane staffs can usually crit your, what, 3.5k Hp? I have never hit that high a crit myself.

[Instanthumor]

Grr I'm out of thanks... I would thank Alhun 3 times... And thank Rianaku ..

[Solid]

When the sorc isn't moving...or if hes in your party and a busy Icon shows up.

Even if u begin as soon as you seem him swapping, that leaves the mage a timeframe of 1-2 seconds in which catastrophic damage is possible.

[Solid]

Right, and you can 1 hit us. Besides, only arcane staffs can usually crit your, what, 3.5k Hp? I have never hit that high a crit myself.

Right besides that fact that we can't one hit normal mythic mages, if you mean one combo maybe- what do we have? No stun skill, no 5k mana, no DMG reduction skill. Zzz it all boils down to how well you can play your class, but if one decides to use more than 4 skills, no matter how well you play your class, your hit was a disadvantage.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Right besides that fact that we can't one hit normal mythic mages, if you mean one combo maybe- what do we have? No stun skill, no 5k mana, no DMG reduction skill. Zzz it all boils down to how well you can play your class, but if one decides to use more than 4 skills, no matter how well you play your class, your hit was a disadvantage.

I have mythic armor, helm and anulet you yourself have 1 hit me...

[Instanthumor]

And besides, no one asked for 5k mana...

You also 1 hit me as well Ctf, And I'm fully mythic with archon

[Alhuntrazeck]

Even if u begin as soon as you seem him swapping, that leaves the mage a timeframe of 1-2 seconds in which catastrophic damage is possible.

2 seconds? How much damage can a mage do in 2 seconds...but that's beside the point. The point is you don't NEED to switch skills because you're already the best class at 1v1s and you and the whole of AL know it. And please, our shields can only absorb a certain amount of dmg, its almost impossible for a shield to last the full 15s so stop complaining! Switching is our way of getting better at something 1 class dominates.

[Instanthumor]

its almost impossible for a shield to last the full 15s so stop complaining! Switching is our way of getting better at something 1 class dominates.

This is true. Postulate1, please stop complaining. IMO, if the devs wanted to do something, they would have done so (or at least mentioned it) towards the beginning of the posting of this whining thread. Quit it already.

If you and your other rogue friends are against the idea of using 5+ skills, just don't 1v1 mages and warriors. Just go along and 1v1 your fellow rogues which is entirely based on luck.

[Madnex]

Right besides that fact that we can't one hit normal mythic mages, if you mean one combo maybe- what do we have? No stun skill, no 5k mana, no DMG reduction skill. Zzz it all boils down to how well you can play your class, but if one decides to use more than 4 skills, no matter how well you play your class, your hit was a disadvantage.
Both my sorc accs are full mythic gemmed purely with supergems. 3.3K HP and close to 1100 armor.

Without shield, I've been oneshot countless times, even by non full mythic rogues. I invite you to test again for yourself, because clearly you have no idea about endgame PvP.

1. And we have only one stun ourselves and it needs charging. It'd be extremely OP if you did too with such insane crit/dodge. 40+ on each of those is not rare for full mythic rogue with sammy.

2. You don't need 5k mana when you can oneshot stuff. With 700 mana you can fire all of your skills twice.

3. Your Combat Medic beats Lifegiver every day. Overall we get 50-60% heal while you get 90% without counting the original self-heal when casting it (Trauma Surgeon, mispelled in game as Trama).

4. All of your reload times are half the duration of ours. You don't even need to attack normally with 2 second reloads.

5. You have no right to complain about a mere 10% damage reduction when rogues have stackable:
-15% armor debuff (Shatter Armor),
+10 crit buff (Deadly Focus),
+10% damage buff (Accuracy).

And to top all that, none of those effects requires charging!



We've been through this before, statistically rogues beat sorcs no matter the situation. Period.

Your real problem here is that because of your overpowered attacking skills you have no need for second defensive-type skill. Well excuse me if rogues take 4 more seconds to kill sorcs now.

[Artae]

if the devs wanted to do something, they would have done so (or at least mentioned it) towards the beginning of the posting of this whining thread.

There is truth in this. There are 8 skills to choose from. And yes, there are only 4 skill slots. If people want to have more than 4 active skills, and switch between them in combat, that's perfectly fine, since STS hasn't done anything against it. The game does not specify how many skills you are supposed to open.

[Solid]

2 seconds? How much damage can a mage do in 2 seconds...but that's beside the point. The point is you don't NEED to switch skills because you're already the best class at 1v1s and you and the whole of AL know it. And please, our shields can only absorb a certain amount of dmg, its almost impossible for a shield to last the full 15s so stop complaining! Switching is our way of getting better at something 1 class dominates.

It is impossible for me to ONE HIT a mage, my aimed usually does 2.5 on a mage, what I can do IF I'm lucky is one combo a mage. A combo consists of 3 ATTACK skills. LIKEWISE a mage can one combo me as well, with TWO skills. Fireball and lightning. It can last the whole 15 seconds IF your GOOD and GEARED.

Rogues are the best at 1v1? A glaive can kill a rogue easily in 1v1, some tanks I can't get past my 2nd packs,

How much DMG can a sorc do in 2 seconds? Over 3.5k.

[Solid]

Both my sorc accs are full mythic gemmed purely with supergems. 3.3K HP and close to 1100 armor.

Without shield, I've been oneshot countless times, even by non full mythic rogues. I invite you to test again for yourself, because clearly you have no idea about endgame PvP.

1. And we have only one stun ourselves and it needs charging. It'd be extremely OP if you did too with such insane crit/dodge. 40+ on each of those is not rare for full mythic rogue with sammy.

2. You don't need 5k mana when you can oneshot stuff. With 700 mana you can fire all of your skills twice.

3. Your Combat Medic beats Lifegiver every day. Overall we get 50-60% heal while you get 90% without counting the original self-heal when casting it (Trauma Surgeon, mispelled in game as Trama).

4. All of your reload times are half the duration of ours. You don't even need to attack normally with 2 second reloads.

5. You have no right to complain about a mere 10% damage reduction when rogues have stackable:
-15% armor debuff (Shatter Armor),
+10 crit buff (Deadly Focus),
+10% damage buff (Accuracy).

And to top all that, none of those effects requires charging!



We've been through this before, statistically rogues beat sorcs no matter the situation. Period.

Your real problem here is that because of your overpowered attacking skills you have no need for second defensive-type skill. Well excuse me if rogues take 4 more seconds to kill sorcs now.


1. Charging on a mage only takes a fraction of time on charging on a rogue. You can charge 1.5 skills in the time a rogue charges 1.

2. The chances of me catching you without shield is low, and if your any good, you will survive my combo. Likewise, if your any good you can kill a rogue in one combo.

3. If your a good mage, (I highly doubt you are) no offence, I can not make it to all my packs. YOUR HEAL IS GUARANTEED, us rogues have to pick it up
This takes time. Throws of your concentration, as you are desperately running for packs. and once again, you are not guaranteed your full heal.

4. The reload time is longer? Yea... Because your charge time takes less time.

5. Our stackables expire in time, and reset if a shot is missed.
Also, you have a stun skill.
CURSE (OMIGOD)
damage reduction
DoT and AoE damage.

ALL OF YOUR SKILLS CHARGE FASTER THAN ROGUE SKILLS!

[Solid]

There is truth in this. There are 8 skills to choose from. And yes, there are only 4 skill slots. If people want to have more than 4 active skills, and switch between them in combat, that's perfectly fine, since STS hasn't done anything against it. The game does not specify how many skills you are supposed to open.

We are currently waiting for a dev's reply.

[Instanthumor]

Ok, maybe it's 'impossible' (although I do not know your definition of impossible) for you to one hit a mage, but it is possible for other rogues to one hit even arcane staffed mages with Samael. To add to that, you don't even need to use a 'combo' on a mage to kill them, all it takes is 1-2 crits and GG us mages. And besides, luck is in your guys' favor when you crit (and dodge), so don't even mention anything about 'IF' and luck.

Against rogues especially with Samael and razorbacks, it is impossible for our shield to last its full 15 seconds. You rogues dish out way too much damage for that to happen; our shield, as Alhunt had stated, can only absorb so much damage until is disappears, leaving us as vulnerable as ants.

(All around) Rouges are the best at 1v1. A glaive cannot kill a rogue EASILY in 1v1, usually, the rogue must run out of mana first, which most skilled rogues don't. Besides, like rogues and mages, there are always the OP and skilled bunch of the category.

A normal, full mythic sorcerer canNOT do 3.5k+ damage in 2 seconds. We crit Lightning, which usually goes for 1k-1.3k damage on average, then Ice (the second strongest skill) which deals approximately 500-800 on a critical hit. Add them up, and it equals to around 1.5-2.1k damage in 2 seconds. That's barely over 50% of your health IF I get lucky enough to do that, even with Ribbit, the odds of that are not in our favor. Most sorcerers don't even have the stun skill on Lightning, so it will be easy to reach your packs. All you need is 1 pack, and you're already up to 90%+ hp.

Please stop complaining already.

[Madnex]

ALL OF YOUR SKILLS CHARGE FASTER THAN ROGUE SKILLS!
I think this statement alone proves the level of your ignorance. There's no difference in the time it requires to charge different skills.

On 1v1 AoE doesn't matter. On PvP builds, no sorc unlocks any AoE upgrades because they are useless without the stuns/roots those skills have in PvE. DoT? In 5 seconds any DoT skill would take to deal 10% of your HP, the fight is over.

There are no realistic chances of missing a skill, sorcs have no dodge and have to attack normally while the skills load so they stay in range. Desperately running around? I've yet to see a fight when someone stays still. The packs are dropped in your immediate range, they're not hidden and you can reach any ofthem with 3 steps.


You keep basing your weak arguments on how good I am or not as a player. You deny to look at solid evidence like numbers and math formulas because you very well know that the statistics I present are correct. I'm wondering if there's any point disproving you anymore since it's obvious to everyone now how pathetic this whole attempt to complain is.


Stay at your 16 twink farming undergeared newbs --because that's pretty much the range of your capabilities(no offense)-- while the rest of us work towards actual issues.

Bye.

[Instanthumor]

I think this statement alone proves the level of your ignorance. There's no difference in the time it requires to charge different skills.

On 1v1 AoE doesn't matter. On PvP builds, no sorc unlocks any AoE upgrades because they are useless without the stuns/roots those skills have in PvE. DoT? In 5 seconds any DoT skill would take to deal 10% of your HP, the fight is over.

There are no realistic chances of missing a skill, sorcs have no dodge and have to attack normally while the skills load so they stay in range. Desperately running around? I've yet to see a fight when someone stays still. The packs are dropped in your immediate range, they're not hidden and you can reach any ofthem with 3 steps.


You keep basing your weak arguments on how good I am or not as a player. You deny to look at solid evidence like numbers and math formulas because you very well know that the statistics I present are correct. I'm wondering if there's any point disproving you anymore since it's obvious to everyone now how pathetic this whole attempt to complain is.


Stay at your 16 twink farming undergeared newbs --because that's pretty much the range of your capabilities(no offense)-- while the rest of us work towards actual issues.

Bye.

At times like these, I wish I could thank people more than once. I salute you Madnex.

[Bless]

@cero what balance are you talking about? When mages and warriors use 5 skills it totally topples the pvp balanxe and only the best geared rogues can beat them -those with 3.8k up and 1.6k+ mana and 400+ dmg

I dont mind yall aying differently, but this? Most rogues always die...thats not balancing, you just want class to be OP when theyre not meant to be in a 1v1. A mage isnt built for 1v1, so they start using 4+ skills to gain unfaor advantages?

Rogues cant do this so why should the other classes.

[Instanthumor]

@cero what balance are you talking about? When mages and warriors use 5 skills it totally topples the pvp balanxe and only the best geared rogues can beat them -those with 3.8k up and 1.6k+ mana and 400+ dmg

I dont mind yall aying differently, but this? Most rogues always die...thats not balancing, you just want class to be OP when theyre not meant to be in a 1v1. A mage isnt built for 1v1, so they start using 4+ skills to gain unfaor advantages?

Rogues cant do this so why should the other classes.

IMO, if the classes were balanced in the first place, warriors and sorcerers wouldn't have to be using 5 skills anyways. Why don't we nerf rogues now and y'all just flame me?

[Bless]

@cero what balance are you talking about? When mages and warriors use 5 skills it totally topples the pvp balanxe and only the best geared rogues can beat them -those with 3.8k up and 1.6k+ mana and 400+ dmg

I dont mind yall aying differently, but this? Most rogues always die...thats not balancing, you just want class to be OP when theyre not meant to be in a 1v1. A mage isnt built for 1v1, so they start using 4+ skills to gain unfaor advantages?

Rogues cant do this so why should the other classes.

IMO, if the classes were balanced in the first place, warriors and sorcerers wouldn't have to be using 5 skills anyways. Why don't we nerf rogues now and y'all just flame me? This is the third time im saying this: Yes mages are weaker in a 1v1, but they arent built for single target so they shouldnt be doing 1v1 in the first place, like i said if they want to do 1v1s in a ctf based game then face the concequences. Mages are fine in 5v5s. You arent built for single target, cant have the best of both worlds.

[Cero]

@cero what balance are you talking about? When mages and warriors use 5 skills it totally topples the pvp balanxe and only the best geared rogues can beat them -those with 3.8k up and 1.6k+ mana and 400+ dmg

I dont mind yall aying differently, but this? Most rogues always die...thats not balancing, you just want class to be OP when theyre not meant to be in a 1v1. A mage isnt built for 1v1, so they start using 4+ skills to gain unfaor advantages?

Rogues cant do this so why should the other classes.

IMO, if the classes were balanced in the first place, warriors and sorcerers wouldn't have to be using 5 skills anyways. Why don't we nerf rogues now and y'all just flame me? This is the third time im saying this: Yes mages are weaker in a 1v1, but they arent built for single target so they shouldnt be doing 1v1 in the first place, like i said if they want to do 1v1s in a ctf based game then face the concequences. Mages are fine in 5v5s. You arent built for single target, cant have the best of both worlds.



Lol, ok sorc clearly isnt build for 1v1 and most can accept that. And now the class who isnt build for 1v1 manages to kill the class built for OP single damage, you guys come here and complain? What a sore loser.
I advice you to something other than crying here. The mages and warriors did something outside the box to survive.

And most cases, ive always seen you doing 1v1. So whos promoting what?

[Instanthumor]

This is the third time im saying this: Yes mages are weaker in a 1v1, but they arent built for single target so they shouldnt be doing 1v1 in the first place, like i said if they want to do 1v1s in a ctf based game then face the concequences. Mages are fine in 5v5s. You arent built for single target, cant have the best of both worlds.

Question, what's wrong with having the best of both worlds? Since STG is doing nothing about this (unless they are talking about it behind the scenes, which they are mostly likely not) at the moment, you have a problem here. I, on the other hand, have some solutions for you. Either you quit complaining and learn to accept the facts, you quit 1v1, or you can create a mage/warrior class and take advantage of the tactic, and yes, it is a tactic. The only other option is to quit the game, but I totally doubt that. Learn to deal with your problem. Tell me, are you still in Elementary/Grade school, where you have to go see an adult for help? Instead of complaining here, why don't you actually do something about it, and if you can't do anything about it, go figure. I am sorry if I offended you in anyway, but you have not apologized and shown sincerity to our fellow mage and warrior class either. Life is tough, games are not supposed to cause stress, and you're not helping out at all.

[falmear]

I dont mind yall aying differently, but this? Most rogues always die...thats not balancing, you just want class to be OP when theyre not meant to be in a 1v1. A mage isnt built for 1v1, so they start using 4+ skills to gain unfaor advantages?


Who says mages are not build for 1v1? Lightning & ice are only single target skills. These are the 2 most highest damaging skills a sorcerer has. This is why I prefer fireball,lightning,ice when fighting rogues 1v1. Because they all work against a rogue, fireball stuns, ice slows you down from your packs and crits from lighting will kill you. Just because you think mages aren't build for 1v1 is just your opinion. Seems like rogues have this all figured out what a mage is and like to tell mages what they can or can't do. Post me anywhere that a dev has said mages aren't meant to be in a 1v1. This is like you saying mages are a support class, when in fact this was proven wrong by a dev.



Rogues cant do this so why should the other classes


Not every class is suppose to be the same. Seems like you want that, if so please make my lightning crit as much damage as aimed shot crits.

[Instanthumor]

Who says mages are not build for 1v1? Lightning & ice are only single target skills. These are the 2 most highest damaging skills a sorcerer has. This is why I prefer fireball,lightning,ice when fighting rogues 1v1. Because they all work against a rogue, fireball stuns, ice slows you down from your packs and crits from lighting will kill you. Just because you think mages aren't build for 1v1 is just your opinion. Seems like rogues have this all figured out what a mage is and like to tell mages what they can or can't do. Post me anywhere that a dev has said mages aren't meant to be in a 1v1. This is like you saying mages are a support class, when in fact this was proven wrong by a dev.



Not every class is suppose to be the same. Seems like you want that, if so please make my lightning crit as much damage as aimed shot crits.

Or make warrior's base crit stat 50% and make Skyward Smash dish the same (or even more) amount of damage that aimed shot crits do as well. That would be very interesting and there would be more 'nerf' and 'complaint' threads like this one.

[Ravager]

If I have 5 skills and the 5th skill is just sitting there doing nothing, I'm gonna use it.

Just like in other games, if I have ammo on a ranged weapon I'm gonna use it. Then I'll switch to melee.

[Energizeric]

I keep seeing people say that sorcerers are not built for 1-on-1. I disagree. Up until a couple of months ago, I was able to handle myself just fine in 1-on-1 and only a few players out there could beat me. But now in the last couple of months, something has changed with regard to warriors. Warriors can now stun me more than I can stun them (it wasn't like that before) and they can also hit extremely hard if they have a glaive/bonesaw. That combination means a warrior with that weapon will defeat me rather quickly most of the time. Although I do not have an arcane staff, and I bet if I did perhaps the outcome would be different. As for rogues, I can usually beat them 1-on-1 without much difficulty, except for a couple of pros out there who I have a bit of trouble with. Either way, I disagree about sorcerers not being able to do 1-on-1.

[Alhuntrazeck]

It is impossible for me to ONE HIT a mage, my aimed usually does 2.5 on a mage, what I can do IF I'm lucky is one combo a mage. A combo consists of 3 ATTACK skills. LIKEWISE a mage can one combo me as well, with TWO skills. Fireball and lightning. It can last the whole 15 seconds IF your GOOD and GEARED.

Rogues are the best at 1v1? A glaive can kill a rogue easily in 1v1, some tanks I can't get past my 2nd packs,

How much DMG can a sorc do in 2 seconds? Over 3.5k.
Ok so...

1. Its impossible for you to 1 hit a mage? That's ridiculous, just ask Predator.
2. An aimed-nox-shadow piercer combo will 90% of the time finish a non-shielded sorc (ignore aarcane staffs).
3. A mage canNOT combo a rogue with fire and lightning. If you think I - or any other mage - can combo you with fb+lightning you need a wake up slap.
4. So mythics aren't good gear now? Are arcanes the new norm? Great, ive been living under a rock all this season while working towards what I thought the best armor, helm and amulet in the game...
5. About the glaive easily killing you...maybe you need a revamp in strategy. Predator has much the same gear as you yet can kill most tanks in the game (love ya pred)
6. Again, let me or any other sorcerer combo u n see if we can hit 3.5k.

[Solid]

Ok so...

1. Its impossible for you to 1 hit a mage? That's ridiculous, just ask Predator.
2. An aimed-nox-shadow piercer combo will 90% of the time finish a non-shielded sorc (ignore aarcane staffs).
3. A mage canNOT combo a rogue with fire and lightning. If you think I - or any other mage - can combo you with fb+lightning you need a wake up slap.
4. So mythics aren't good gear now? Are arcanes the new norm? Great, ive been living under a rock all this season while working towards what I thought the best armor, helm and amulet in the game...
5. About the glaive easily killing you...maybe you need a revamp in strategy. Predator has much the same gear as you yet can kill most tanks in the game (love ya pred)
6. Again, let me or any other sorcerer combo u n see if we can hit 3.5k.

Pres has daggers, I use devourer bow. *hero deep* no difference eh?

A sorcerer can't one combo? YOU DONT KNOW ANY GOOD ONES.

I think arrypotta is the best 1v1 sorc, try talking to him- I can't even get to my first pack because I'm dead.

[Solid]

I think this statement alone proves the level of your ignorance. There's no difference in the time it requires to charge different skills.

On 1v1 AoE doesn't matter. On PvP builds, no sorc unlocks any AoE upgrades because they are useless without the stuns/roots those skills have in PvE. DoT? In 5 seconds any DoT skill would take to deal 10% of your HP, the fight is over.

There are no realistic chances of missing a skill, sorcs have no dodge and have to attack normally while the skills load so they stay in range. Desperately running around? I've yet to see a fight when someone stays still. The packs are dropped in your immediate range, they're not hidden and you can reach any ofthem with 3 steps.


You keep basing your weak arguments on how good I am or not as a player. You deny to look at solid evidence like numbers and math formulas because you very well know that the statistics I present are correct. I'm wondering if there's any point disproving you anymore since it's obvious to everyone now how pathetic this whole attempt to complain is.


Stay at your 16 twink farming undergeared newbs --because that's pretty much the range of your capabilities(no offense)-- while the rest of us work towards actual issues.

Bye.

Try charging on a rogue before you state opinions, charging on a sorc is faster than charging on a rogue.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

Seriously, in all my days, I haven't seen whinier people than pvpers. No offense.

+∞
sorry i took this from a sepperate thread

[Anarchist]

At the end all this talk talk is useless, for hell mages and war would accept their precious advantage to be removed and rebalance things the way they are supposed to be.
Mage > rogue.
Rogue > War.
War > Mage.

Any skill exploit is just by passing the natural order of things and trying to pull as much power to your side of the triangle. This is the truth not "it is for survivability" "we are weak" those are just mere excuse.

I am sure Sts will eventually fix this skill exploit.
Freeing a class from having skill cooldowns wheither he changes the skill for more "survivability" or not is unacceptable.

If sts consider Energ idea i am sure 100% none of you will be changing anymore your skills during a fight.

[Madnex]

Try charging on a rogue before you state opinions, charging on a sorc is faster than charging on a rogue.
It's not an opinion, it's a fact. I timed both multiple times and the difference is nonexistent.

Seriously, learn to accept a loss already.

[becky_xil]

Helo guys.. how are you?

Send using my cellphone.. yes my cellphone

[Bless]

It is impossible for me to ONE HIT a mage, my aimed usually does 2.5 on a mage, what I can do IF I'm lucky is one combo a mage. A combo consists of 3 ATTACK skills. LIKEWISE a mage can one combo me as well, with TWO skills. Fireball and lightning. It can last the whole 15 seconds IF your GOOD and GEARED.

Rogues are the best at 1v1? A glaive can kill a rogue easily in 1v1, some tanks I can't get past my 2nd packs,

How much DMG can a sorc do in 2 seconds? Over 3.5k.
Ok so...

1. Its impossible for you to 1 hit a mage? That's ridiculous, just ask Predator.
2. An aimed-nox-shadow piercer combo will 90% of the time finish a non-shielded sorc (ignore aarcane staffs).
3. A mage canNOT combo a rogue with fire and lightning. If you think I - or any other mage - can combo you with fb+lightning you need a wake up slap.
4. So mythics aren't good gear now? Are arcanes the new norm? Great, ive been living under a rock all this season while working towards what I thought the best armor, helm and amulet in the game...
5. About the glaive easily killing you...maybe you need a revamp in strategy. Predator has much the same gear as you yet can kill most tanks in the game (love ya pred)
6. Again, let me or any other sorcerer combo u n see if we can hit 3.5k. Why are you comparing the of us to pred? We dont have full maxed super mythics and samaels now do we? :p

Isnt ctf missing mythic daggers?

[Serancha]

I find it funny that rogues are the ones crying about this but they have the best KDR in the game.

This is an inaccurate generalization. There are some rogues who live by KSing and leaving games when the other team gets too strong. There's warriors and mages who do this also. These people have exceptional K/D's. I've played partner with a warrrior since I started PVP and thus don't play by KS out of respect for him. I also don't believe in leaving my team and bailing.

As a rogue who played since before the days of the windmill glitches, my K/D is near even, and believe it or not, more rogues have stats like mine than Pred's - nobody should be comparing the entire rogue class to the top player in it, or to the handful that play for K/D alone. Most mages I see today have K/D's that are crazy good - and there's tons of warriors 3:1 or better at end game PVP. Maybe Rogues had it better once, but that is no longer the case.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

This is an inaccurate generalization. There are some rogues who live by KSing and leaving games when the other team gets too strong. There's warriors and mages who do this also. These people have exceptional K/D's. I've played partner with a warrrior since I started PVP and thus don't play by KS out of respect for him. I also don't believe in leaving my team and bailing.

You... You are a most honourable fighter!

[Anarchist]

This is an inaccurate generalization. There are some rogues who live by KSing and leaving games when the other team gets too strong. There's warriors and mages who do this also. These people have exceptional K/D's. I've played partner with a warrrior since I started PVP and thus don't play by KS out of respect for him. I also don't believe in leaving my team and bailing.

As a rogue who played since before the days of the windmill glitches, my K/D is near even, and believe it or not, more rogues have stats like mine than Pred's - nobody should be comparing the entire rogue class to the top player in it, or to the handful that play for K/D alone. Most mages I see today have K/D's that are crazy good - and there's tons of warriors 3:1 or better at end game PVP. Maybe Rogues had it better once, but that is no longer the case.

Who even believes many of those good kdr these days the way the game is full of dummy farmers.
Personally i prefer to roll with someone with a even kdr.

[falmear]

Pres has daggers, I use devourer bow. *hero deep* no difference eh?

A sorcerer can't one combo? YOU DONT KNOW ANY GOOD ONES.

I think arrypotta is the best 1v1 sorc, try talking to him- I can't even get to my first pack because I'm dead.

This is the height of hypocrisy right here. First you say Pred has daggers and you use dev bow. Then you sight an example as arrypotta who has arcane staff? Make up your mind because you can't compare dev bow to arcane staff. Mythic daggers vs arcane staff is a much fairer comparison. And I can tell you as someone who has an arcane staff and fighting a rogue with mythic daggers, if my lightning don't crit or they get to all of their packs I am dead. And forget about it if they surprise me with my shield down, or its in cool down. Basically I die instantly. But if I surprise them and fire 3 attack skills all at once, they don't die. So since you don't have mythic daggers I don't think you can speak with any authority. Seems like your problem is the gear you are using.

[Solid]

This is the height of hypocrisy right here. First you say Pred has daggers and you use dev bow. Then you sight an example as arrypotta who has arcane staff? Make up your mind because you can't compare dev bow to arcane staff. Mythic daggers vs arcane staff is a much fairer comparison. And I can tell you as someone who has an arcane staff and fighting a rogue with mythic daggers, if my lightning don't crit or they get to all of their packs I am dead. And forget about it if they surprise me with my shield down, or its in cool down. Basically I die instantly. But if I surprise them and fire 3 attack skills all at once, they don't die. So since you don't have mythic daggers I don't think you can speak with any authority. Seems like your problem is the gear you are using.

alhunt stated that i had daggers, i clarified that i did not. Are you implying that because I cannot afford daggers, I have no authority or voice on forums? It seems as if you have an arrogant egoistic attitude towards game players.

[falmear]

alhunt stated that i had daggers, i clarified that i did not. Are you implying that because I cannot afford daggers, I have no authority or voice on forums? It seems as if you have an arrogant egoistic attitude towards game players.

No thats not what I am saying. What I am saying is how can you talk about class balance of a mage with an arcane staff when you don't have mythic daggers? You sight an arcane mage in your example as why you lose 1v1. Dev bow sells for 1k in cs. Arcane staff is a 50+m gold weapon. How is this a fair comparison? Seems like you want to skew everything in a way that makes it sound rogues are so weak. I bet if I started a forum thread about how weak mages are that use dimensional percussion of assault and I can't kill a rogue with mythic daggers. You'd be the first to tell me to buy better gear. Here is something I posted a while ago and seems fitting for this discussion, try to figure out who are you in this:

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/thumb/459/large

[Rare]

No thats not what I am saying. What I am saying is how can you talk about class balance of a mage with an arcane staff when you don't have mythic daggers? You sight an arcane mage in your example as why you lose 1v1. Dev bow sells for 1k in cs. Arcane staff is a 50+m gold weapon. How is this a fair comparison? Seems like you want to skew everything in a way that makes it sound rogues are so weak. I bet if I started a forum thread about how weak mages are that use dimensional percussion of assault and I can't kill a rogue with mythic daggers. You'd be the first to tell me to buy better gear. Here is something I posted a while ago and seems fitting for this discussion, try to figure out who are you in this:

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/thumb/459/large

That picture is hillarious.

[Rianaku]

Both my sorc accs are full mythic gemmed purely with supergems. 3.3K HP and close to 1100 armor.

Without shield, I've been oneshot countless times, even by non full mythic rogues. I invite you to test again for yourself, because clearly you have no idea about endgame PvP.

1. And we have only one stun ourselves and it needs charging. It'd be extremely OP if you did too with such insane crit/dodge. 40+ on each of those is not rare for full mythic rogue with sammy.

2. You don't need 5k mana when you can oneshot stuff. With 700 mana you can fire all of your skills twice.

3. Your Combat Medic beats Lifegiver every day. Overall we get 50-60% heal while you get 90% without counting the original self-heal when casting it (Trauma Surgeon, mispelled in game as Trama).

4. All of your reload times are half the duration of ours. You don't even need to attack normally with 2 second reloads.

5. You have no right to complain about a mere 10% damage reduction when rogues have stackable:
-15% armor debuff (Shatter Armor),
+10 crit buff (Deadly Focus),
+10% damage buff (Accuracy).

And to top all that, none of those effects requires charging!



We've been through this before, statistically rogues beat sorcs no matter the situation. Period.

Your real problem here is that because of your overpowered attacking skills you have no need for second defensive-type skill. Well excuse me if rogues take 4 more seconds to kill sorcs now.

I'm sorry Postulate1 but this caption proves your argument wrong IMO.
Goodluck healing the burn buddy.

Ohhh hold upp...

This one proves it too... and the picture is hilarious xD


No thats not what I am saying. What I am saying is how can you talk about class balance of a mage with an arcane staff when you don't have mythic daggers? You sight an arcane mage in your example as why you lose 1v1. Dev bow sells for 1k in cs. Arcane staff is a 50+m gold weapon. How is this a fair comparison? Seems like you want to skew everything in a way that makes it sound rogues are so weak. I bet if I started a forum thread about how weak mages are that use dimensional percussion of assault and I can't kill a rogue with mythic daggers. You'd be the first to tell me to buy better gear. Here is something I posted a while ago and seems fitting for this discussion, try to figure out who are you in this:

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/thumb/459/large

Very well put together. Sounds like the end of the story to me.

Peace ~

[Solid]

No thats not what I am saying. What I am saying is how can you talk about class balance of a mage with an arcane staff when you don't have mythic daggers? You sight an arcane mage in your example as why you lose 1v1. Dev bow sells for 1k in cs. Arcane staff is a 50+m gold weapon. How is this a fair comparison? Seems like you want to skew everything in a way that makes it sound rogues are so weak. I bet if I started a forum thread about how weak mages are that use dimensional percussion of assault and I can't kill a rogue with mythic daggers. You'd be the first to tell me to buy better gear. Here is something I posted a while ago and seems fitting for this discussion, try to figure out who are you in this:

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/thumb/459/large

Even if u used daggers, I would still be one combos. The health difference between bow and daggers is not 3k or 4k, it is 200.

[Rianaku]

:sorrow:

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

this has gone from 5 skills to hotkeys to mages having shorter charging times to rogues having skills the can stack buffs to a picture about gear being better than skill

[Instanthumor]

this has gone from 5 skills to hotkeys to mages having shorter charging times to rogues having skills the can stack buffs to a picture about gear being better than skill

In other words, this has gone nowhere.

[Bless]

@cero what balance are you talking about? When mages and warriors use 5 skills it totally topples the pvp balanxe and only the best geared rogues can beat them -those with 3.8k up and 1.6k+ mana and 400+ dmg

I dont mind yall aying differently, but this? Most rogues always die...thats not balancing, you just want class to be OP when theyre not meant to be in a 1v1. A mage isnt built for 1v1, so they start using 4+ skills to gain unfaor advantages?

Rogues cant do this so why should the other classes.

IMO, if the classes were balanced in the first place, warriors and sorcerers wouldn't have to be using 5 skills anyways. Why don't we nerf rogues now and y'all just flame me? This is the third time im saying this: Yes mages are weaker in a 1v1, but they arent built for single target so they shouldnt be doing 1v1 in the first place, like i said if they want to do 1v1s in a ctf based game then face the concequences. Mages are fine in 5v5s. You arent built for single target, cant have the best of both worlds.



Lol, ok sorc clearly isnt build for 1v1 and most can accept that. And now the class who isnt build for 1v1 manages to kill the class built for OP single damage, you guys come here and complain? What a sore loser.
I advice you to something other than crying here. The mages and warriors did something outside the box to survive.

And most cases, ive always seen you doing 1v1. So whos promoting what? This thread was started before I pvped the mages, so it couldnt have been that I was a sore loser because the post was made when I was still lvl 35 rofl. I didnt have many fights with 4+ skill users, but with those I did, they always had the advantage. Just bcause you use 4+ skills you think were crybabies but infact you dont play rogue so how would you know.. like I said ask a rogue to try pvp with 5 skills and they would die when swiching, were not crying because we cant kill mages - Im fully capable of killing a lot of full mythic staff mages that use 4 skills but when they use 5 or more it is unfair as we cant do the same and therefore its hard to keep health up. Like I said you cant possibly comment on this because you arent in our position.

Sts allows us to switch skills for pve builds, then some smart players exploit this advantage and want to use more skills so they switch out skills in pvp IN MIDFIGHT. Its unfair to those who cant do it dont you understand? Its like the windmill exploit, it made wars OP and other classes wanted it fixed and thats what were doing.


Its ok for you to defend your thesis but yall are stooping so low calling us crybabies, complainers etc when were just defending our beliefs. You guys have an infection which jumps from person to person, calling others crybabies everytime we report an issue. Ironically it seems you guys are crying about rogues being one hitters (in some situations when youre not fully geared vs a fully maxed rogue) and then use 4+ skills and switch them if theyre on CD just to keep your health, damage higher than other classes, so instead of exploiting skills, get some skill yourself. Stop trying to find these cheap shortcuts and play how its meant to be played, using 4 skills at any one time in combat.

Anyways Ill give up on this thread as Im overwhelmed by the ignorance and have to repeat things more than 3 times atleast, hope devs read this, if not we tried to argue our points, if any came out rude - know that we are frustrated and probably didnt mean to be rude and were just emphasising a point.

~Crybabies.
Hit me up ingame if you have a problem thanks.

[Striderevil]

I've played this game since its lvl cap was 16. When pvp came out I was pleasantly surprised and stopped playing it thinking that I needed far better gear to compete. It soon became apparent that mages as a pvp class were simply punching bags. If you have shield which all pvp mages do then survivability is not as much the issue as dealing damage and actually gaining a kill in pvp.

The mage as a class is supposed to deal DoT which is what makes them effective mob killers and for that everything from freeze to root is generally what achieves the end result. However because this does not effect bosses or other players in pvp the mage class suddenly finds itself weak. I don't play on a pc and for many like me, 5 skills is not an option. 2 secs of invulnerability may be enough to switch lep but in a situation where you would wan't to use that time to either run or deal damage back before you start taking damage, switching skills is tough in pvp for mobile users. PC users who can program hotkeys on their keyboard definitely have the advantage here.

While I could care less whether any class would switch skills during pvp, it comes down to whether the devs are not doing anything about the mage class pvp ability being under powered because the use of a 5th skill makes the class seem balanced. It is next to impossible for tablet users and other mobile users to be effective in switching skills while being attacked lol. Sure you can load shield and forget about the invulnerability and switch skill then run after your opponent if you are not being attacked. But most experienced with pvp will wait out the shield and just kill in the 15 sec. it take for cool down or will break the shield and kill the mage.

Mages at the extreme end can achieve 25% crit with pet. In most cases its just 17%-21% which means if your going to use lightening there is a 79-83% chance that you will not crit. Even when you do crit there is no guarentee that its the upper level at 1.3k, you might very well crit at 700 dmg. Which means most of the time your dead unless you can use ice and ethyl to slow the rogues from reaching packs and ofcourse against a war. you are dead 100% of the time 1 vs. 1. Rogues can achieve as much as 40 - 48% crit chance to their aimed shot apart from the fact that the skill was proved more effective in causing damage than lightening skill in another post in mage class discussion. This is fine as mages were never meant to do single hit dmg but DoT which somehow escaped the devs idea of the mages strength and capability in pvp to deliver.

The reason why i don't care about other classes being able to use more than 1 skill is because if one more slot is introduced or the devs make it possible to use more skills, mages will be the only class currently being able to use another attack effectively without running out of mana. However in time this may not be an issue as mana pools grow. Also most who use 5 skills have sacrificed their points in other areas whether it is in passives or DoT so it is still balanced. Now once lvl caps increase to lvl 41 thats 6 more points and a lot more people who have maxed passives will suddenly find extra skill points to put into other skills. So what then? As levels increase more skill points will be used and so it would be easier to allow access to more slots.. or increase skill upgradability.

So until sometime towards the end of Feb., we can wait and see what direction the devs will move in concerning the next 2 expansions. Because more skill points means more access to more skills so they either have to become available or if they expect to use hot keys on a keyboard then it makes no sense to celebrate being awarded the best mobile mmo. 2013 if its not first and foremost mobile friendly.

PvP means player vs. player so every class should be able to play whether its one on one or 5 vs. 5. Mages are not support classes as they neither buff up their party or effectively heal anyone other than replenish mana. Warriors are the support class. They take hits from aggro., heal party and can even give speed to the whole party. Mages and Rogues are offensive classes yet somehow mages are sidelined and Warriors have arisen to be able to not only tank, support but also kill effectively while repeatedly applying stuns either from weapon or skill lol. Rogues and Wars can escape movement impairing effects something that mages can't do.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

I've played this game since its lvl cap was 16. When pvp came out I was pleasantly surprised and stopped playing it thinking that I needed far better gear to compete. It soon became apparent that mages as a pvp class were simply punching bags. If you have shield which all pvp mages do then survivability is not as much the issue as dealing damage and actually gaining a kill in pvp.

The mage as a class is supposed to deal DoT which is what makes them effective mob killers and for that everything from freeze to root is generally what achieves the end result. However because this does not effect bosses or other players in pvp the mage class suddenly finds itself weak. I don't play on a pc and for many like me, 5 skills is not an option. 2 secs of invulnerability may be enough to switch lep but in a situation where you would wan't to use that time to either run or deal damage back before you start taking damage, switching skills is tough in pvp for mobile users. PC users who can program hotkeys on their keyboard definitely have the advantage here.

While I could care less whether any class would switch skills during pvp, it comes down to whether the devs are not doing anything about the mage class pvp ability being under powered because the use of a 5th skill makes the class seem balanced. It is next to impossible for tablet users and other mobile users to be effective in switching skills while being attacked lol. Sure you can load shield and forget about the invulnerability and switch skill then run after your opponent if you are not being attacked. But most experienced with pvp will wait out the shield and just kill in the 15 sec. it take for cool down or will break the shield and kill the mage.

Mages at the extreme end can achieve 25% crit with pet. In most cases its just 17%-21% which means if your going to use lightening there is a 79-83% chance that you will not crit. Even when you do crit there is no guarentee that its the upper level at 1.3k, you might very well crit at 700 dmg. Which means most of the time your dead unless you can use ice and ethyl to slow the rogues from reaching packs and ofcourse against a war. you are dead 100% of the time 1 vs. 1. Rogues can achieve as much as 40 - 48% crit chance to their aimed shot apart from the fact that the skill was proved more effective in causing damage than lightening skill in another post in mage class discussion. This is fine as mages were never meant to do single hit dmg but DoT which somehow escaped the devs idea of the mages strength and capability in pvp to deliver.

The reason why i don't care about other classes being able to use more than 1 skill is because if one more slot is introduced or the devs make it possible to use more skills, mages will be the only class currently being able to use another attack effectively without running out of mana. However in time this may not be an issue as mana pools grow. Also most who use 5 skills have sacrificed their points in other areas whether it is in passives or DoT so it is still balanced. Now once lvl caps increase to lvl 41 thats 6 more points and a lot more people who have maxed passives will suddenly find extra skill points to put into other skills. So what then? As levels increase more skill points will be used and so it would be easier to allow access to more slots.. or increase skill upgradability.

So until sometime towards the end of Feb., we can wait and see what direction the devs will move in concerning the next 2 expansions. Because more skill points means more access to more skills so they either have to become available or if they expect to use hot keys on a keyboard then it makes no sense to celebrate being awarded the best mobile mmo. 2013 if its not first and foremost mobile friendly.

PvP means player vs. player so every class should be able to play whether its one on one or 5 vs. 5. Mages are not support classes as they neither buff up their party or effectively heal anyone other than replenish mana. Warriors are the support class. They take hits from aggro., heal party and can even give speed to the whole party. Mages and Rogues are offensive classes yet somehow mages are sidelined and Warriors have arisen to be able to not only tank, support but also kill effectively while repeatedly applying stuns either from weapon or skill lol. Rogues and Wars can escape movement impairing effects something that mages can't do.

I love this comment, it just made so much sense and I've run out of thanks

[Alhuntrazeck]

alhunt stated that i had daggers, i clarified that i did not. Are you implying that because I cannot afford daggers, I have no authority or voice on forums? It seems as if you have an arrogant egoistic attitude towards game players.

Ok, I never said you had mythic daggers. I said Pred has MUCH the same gear as you not ENTIRELY the same gear as you.

Besides, I picked Pred as an example. Zeus kills warriors, heck Yoggie used to kill them even before she got her daggers.

[Solid]

Ok so...

1. Its impossible for you to 1 hit a mage? That's ridiculous, just ask Predator.
2. An aimed-nox-shadow piercer combo will 90% of the time finish a non-shielded sorc (ignore aarcane staffs).
3. A mage canNOT combo a rogue with fire and lightning. If you think I - or any other mage - can combo you with fb+lightning you need a wake up slap.
4. So mythics aren't good gear now? Are arcanes the new norm? Great, ive been living under a rock all this season while working towards what I thought the best armor, helm and amulet in the game...
5. About the glaive easily killing you...maybe you need a revamp in strategy. Predator has much the same gear as you yet can kill most tanks in the game (love ya pred)
6. Again, let me or any other sorcerer combo u n see if we can hit 3.5k.


Ok, I never said you had mythic daggers. I said Pred has MUCH the same gear as you not ENTIRELY the same gear as you.

Besides, I picked Pred as an example. Zeus kills warriors, heck Yoggie used to kill them even before she got her daggers.

Why did you compare me with a daggers rogue? Zeus can't kill every 6 skill warriors. Yoggie can kill a 6 skill warrior that is geared?

Must be a terrible tank.......... Really. Terrible. Embarrassingly terrible!

[Nesox]

A sorc can crit me to 15%.

Any rogue can crit me to 0% and that chance is generall faaaarrr higher than a mage crit chance.

[Solid]

Any rogue can crit me to 0% and that chance is generall faaaarrr higher than a mage crit chance.

This is completely untrue , unless your using architect gear or you are just terrible. I'd love to see a rogue one shot you. (If your actually any good)

[Cero]

This thread was started before I pvped the mages, so it couldnt have been that I was a sore loser because the post was made when I was still lvl 35 rofl. I didnt have many fights with 4+ skill users, but with those I did, they always had the advantage. Just bcause you use 4+ skills you think were crybabies but infact you dont play rogue so how would you know.. like I said ask a rogue to try pvp with 5 skills and they would die when swiching, were not crying because we cant kill mages - Im fully capable of killing a lot of full mythic staff mages that use 4 skills but when they use 5 or more it is unfair as we cant do the same and therefore its hard to keep health up. Like I said you cant possibly comment on this because you arent in our position.

Sts allows us to switch skills for pve builds, then some smart players exploit this advantage and want to use more skills so they switch out skills in pvp IN MIDFIGHT. Its unfair to those who cant do it dont you understand? Its like the windmill exploit, it made wars OP and other classes wanted it fixed and thats what were doing.


Its ok for you to defend your thesis but yall are stooping so low calling us crybabies, complainers etc when were just defending our beliefs. You guys have an infection which jumps from person to person, calling others crybabies everytime we report an issue. Ironically it seems you guys are crying about rogues being one hitters (in some situations when youre not fully geared vs a fully maxed rogue) and then use 4+ skills and switch them if theyre on CD just to keep your health, damage higher than other classes, so instead of exploiting skills, get some skill yourself. Stop trying to find these cheap shortcuts and play how its meant to be played, using 4 skills at any one time in combat.

Anyways Ill give up on this thread as Im overwhelmed by the ignorance and have to repeat things more than 3 times atleast, hope devs read this, if not we tried to argue our points, if any came out rude - know that we are frustrated and probably didnt mean to be rude and were just emphasising a point.

~Crybabies.
Hit me up ingame if you have a problem thanks.

In summary, you hit lvl36 and died from 5skill user then come here to post.
Crybabies.

[Bless]

In summary, you hit lvl36 and died from 5skill user then come here to post.
Crybabies.

My 10 year old sister can observe better than you man...cmon..I commented on and supported this thread before I was even 36 and fought these mages.
It's not being a crybaby to report an issue, this is exactly like windmill bug. Warriors said: "its just a spec, if u want to then make a warrior and own" and mages said "warrior class has an unfair advantage".

If you use 5 skills then you don't have much skill because you obviously cannot fight with 4 skills and win. Or atleast stay away from 1v1s of your class doesn't do well in them.

Hit me up ingame or play me if you have a problem ;)

[Instanthumor]

Why did you compare me with a daggers rogue? Zeus can't kill every 6 skill warriors. Yoggie can kill a 6 skill warrior that is geared?

Must be a terrible tank.......... Really. Terrible. Embarrassingly terrible!

You need to learn to not exaggerate so much. Give me names of people who uses 6 skills durig clashes and 1v1's, because I know no one that uses 6 skills. 5 skills are ok, but six is really pushing it.

[Solid]

You need to learn to not exaggerate so much. Give me names of people who uses 6 skills durig clashes and 1v1's, because I know no one that uses 6 skills. 5 skills are ok, but six is really pushing it.
Geo, xbadboy, etc.

[Cero]

My 10 year old sister can observe better than you man...cmon..I commented on and supported this thread before I was even 36 and fought these mages.
It's not being a crybaby to report an issue, this is exactly like windmill bug. Warriors said: "its just a spec, if u want to then make a warrior and own" and mages said "warrior class has an unfair advantage".

If you use 5 skills then you don't have much skill because you obviously cannot fight with 4 skills and win. Or atleast stay away from 1v1s of your class doesn't do well in them.

Hit me up ingame or play me if you have a problem ;)

Covering "crying" as reporting "exploit, bug, etc". Not the same as you, i don't have
Mythic so i find a way to improve my gameplay. I use 5skills to fill up the gap of gear not
To come here at forum and cry for a "fix" o.O

"Hit me up in game"? funny
If you win does that settle this?

[Bless]

My 10 year old sister can observe better than you man...cmon..I commented on and supported this thread before I was even 36 and fought these mages.
It's not being a crybaby to report an issue, this is exactly like windmill bug. Warriors said: "its just a spec, if u want to then make a warrior and own" and mages said "warrior class has an unfair advantage".

If you use 5 skills then you don't have much skill because you obviously cannot fight with 4 skills and win. Or atleast stay away from 1v1s of your class doesn't do well in them.

Hit me up ingame or play me if you have a problem ;)

Covering "crying" as reporting "exploit, bug, etc". Not the same as you, i don't have
Mythic so i find a way to improve my gameplay. I use 5skills to fill up the gap of gear not
To come here at forum and cry for a "fix" o.O

"Hit me up in game"? funny
If you win does that settle this? If you dont have gear doesnt mean you cheat, it means farm to get money to buy gear- usin 5 skils to fill that gap is lame and undeserving. I had 0 gold when i started now i have mythic helm and armor + 2m...its not our fault you dont have mythics

Youre not understanding my points, you just think its all crying man, whatever.

[zwapper]

i am guilty on this topic coz im one of those who switch skills during the fight and i need to state my opinion regarding on this matter.

just one phrase!!!

"Survival of the fittest"

being the lowest in armor and hp we need to find a way to adopt in an environment, so we need to look for better option to sustain our flaws.
-Shield is a must in pvp (for sorcs) same as heal, having this 2 will compromise our attack skills. Having 2 attack skills are just like tickling our opponent, since their armor is better than us.
-So, using 5th skills is not that kind of big deal. Besides everybody can do it, just a matter of practice and good ping!!!

BTW: changing skills can open us vulnerable in any attack for about 4 secs using tab. 4 secs is my fastest switch.

[Solid]

Covering "crying" as reporting "exploit, bug, etc". Not the same as you, i don't have
Mythic so i find a way to improve my gameplay. I use 5skills to fill up the gap of gear not
To come here at forum and cry for a "fix" o.O

"Hit me up in game"? funny
If you win does that settle this?

You don't have mythics? You don't play enough. This game has been out for over a year. ITS more than EASY, if not AVERAGE to have accumulated 10m+ over the course of a year.

The fact that you saying that 5 skills compensates for your gear just proves how over powered and imbalanced using 5 skills is.

You just fortified my argument, thanks.

-Hit me up in game if you have a problem.

Kthxbai

[Solid]

If you dont have gear doesnt mean you cheat, it means farm to get money to buy gear- usin 5 skils to fill that gap is lame and undeserving. I had 0 gold when i started now i have mythic helm and armor + 2m...its not our fault you dont have mythics

Youre not understanding my points, you just think its all crying man, whatever.

This was done over a period of 2 weeks, @ cero,

[Instanthumor]

Geo, xbadboy, etc.

They might be using 6 skills, but they do not use all six in a match at one time. Maybe 5.

[Solid]

They might be using 6 skills, but they do not use all six in a match at one time. Maybe 5.

Oh I did not know you were Geo or Badboy.

[Madnex]

Oh I did not know you were Geo or Badboy.
No clue you were a guy either.

Inst is probably speaking from experience as a warrior, saying that it's impractical to use six. What makes you so certain they are?

[Solid]

No clue you were a guy either.

Inst is probably speaking from experience as a warrior, saying that it's impractical to use six. What makes you so certain they are?

Because maybe I know and am friends with Geo and bad boy and have discussed builds, but ya know, its whatever.

[Imjebus]

Surprised this hasn't gotten locked yet xD

[Madnex]

Because maybe I know and am friends with Geo and bad boy and have discussed builds, but ya know, its whatever.
Fair enough, since there is no direct way to confirm that would you care to elaborate? Since you've only met two warriors who use six and remember it so clearly, it shouldn't be hard to share that build right?

This can possibly help the rest including myself how six skills can be used efficiently; I have a warrior myself to test on. So?

[Solid]

Fair enough, since there is no direct way to confirm that would you care to elaborate? Since you've only met two warriors who use six and remember it so clearly, it shouldn't be hard to share that build right?

This it can possibly help the rest including myself how six skills can be used efficiently; I have a warrior myself to test on. So?

Pm xbadboyx.

[Anarchist]

Fair enough, since there is no direct way to confirm that would you care to elaborate? Since you've only met two warriors who use six and remember it so clearly, it shouldn't be hard to share that build right?

This it can possibly help the rest including myself how six skills can be used efficiently; I have a warrior myself to test on. So?

Ermm This or it?

[Madnex]

Pm xbadboyx.
Alright, will do.


Ermm This or it?
Allowed since the correction there was made to make the post more friendly, totally not my style.

It's understandable that I'll need some time to adjust to not mixing insults with correcting on people's post. ;)

[Energizeric]

It would really be nice to hear a comment from a developer on one of these many threads on this subject. Just a simple answer to let us know if this sort of behavior was intended or not, and if they plan to fix it at some point or not. Then it will put to an end this debate which none of us actually know the true answer to.

[Black Market]

Ok just put another window after you choosing team red or blue, this window for choosing skill to use in pvp, just 4 skill is allowed. Done.

plus disable skill and pet window. or current skill and pet that u using is that only allowed in pvp area, skill and pet window tab disable in pvp area. Both, skill switch and pet spam argument is solve.

[Energizeric]

plus disable skill and pet window. or current skill and pet that u using is that only allowed in pvp area, skill and pet window tab disable in pvp area. Both, skill switch and pet spam argument is solve.

And when your pet gets hungry and you don't want to feed him and would instead switch to another pet?

[Black Market]

@Energizeric

You did this in pvp area too? i thought only pve did this. So when your samael hungry, you switch to whim to hammerjaw to glacian to slag to colton until samael fresh again? Nice tactic. Rarely seen this tactic in pvp.

[Alhuntrazeck]

@Energizeric

You did this in pvp area too? i thought only pve did this. So when your samael hungry, you switch to whim to hammerjaw to glacian to slag to colton until samael fresh again? Nice tactic. Rarely seen this tactic in pvp.

People who don't want to waste 900g do it. I do it, switching between Mali and Colton and Orion and ribbit and Ethyl and you get the picture.

[Black Market]

900g?oh end game pvper? for me, i just stick with my best pet rather than changed it to other pet. Change pet, means changed your stat, pet ability, pvp tactic etc...its ok if you just flagging there.

[Instanthumor]

900g?oh end game pvper? for me, i just stick with my best pet rather than changed it to other pet. Change pet, means changed your stat, pet ability, pvp tactic etc...its ok if you just flagging there.

I'm sorry, but apparently, we are obviously not as rich as you are.

[Anarchist]

Alright, will do.


Allowed since the correction there was made to make the post more friendly, totally not my style.

It's understandable that I'll need some time to adjust to not mixing insults with correcting on people's post. ;)


Ok :-P

[Solid]

I'm sorry, but apparently, we are obviously not as rich as you are.

900g per 15mins is exactly 3600 per hour. You can play 10 hours straight on the price of 3 locked crates.

If having enough gold to feed pets is "rich",

I'LL MAKE IT RAIN!!!!!!!!!

60131

[Instanthumor]

Please make it rain. It's awfully hot out here.

[Anarchist]

@Energizeric

You did this in pvp area too? i thought only pve did this. So when your samael hungry, you switch to whim to hammerjaw to glacian to slag to colton until samael fresh again? Nice tactic. Rarely seen this tactic in pvp.

Meh at me i didn't want to "thank" but reply.

Rich or not rich pet rotation is a must, there are different pets for different situation.

[Solid]

Meh at me i didn't want to "thank" but reply.

Rich or not rich pet rotation is a must, there are different pets for different situation.

I always use Samael.

[Anarchist]

I always use Samael.

Good for you c:

[Solid]

Good for you c:

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2012/06/rdj_thanks.g
TY...

[Geusaquc]

Idk how qualified I am to post here cos I'm not a hardcore pvper (although I enjoy going in every now and then), but my 2 cents is this... (Not calling out anybody in particular at any time in this post btw just random thoughts)

Are you suggesting that skills are only limited to 4 no matter what? Pve or pvp it doesn't matter? If so.....
Ik ur a hardcore pvp and merch ctf but if ur idea is to lock the skills to only being able to physically spec 4, it puts the rest of us that aren't rogues at a disadvantage. It is perfectly possible for rogues to get by in the entire game with the power play pvp 4 skill set: elites, pvp, farming crates, anything, it doesn't matter. However it's highly ineffective for mages AND warriors to go between pvp and elites etc without a respec IF you don't have a larger spec than 4 skills. Eg Mage is most effective with clock ice fire shield for elites, however this is not the most effective pvp build. As it is, many mages switch clock to lightning at the boss etc so there's at least 5 skills already. Likewise with warrior, taunting etc is useless in pvp.
I agree that switching in the middle of a 1v1 fight is somewhat unfair, however like many have said, ctf it wasn't designed for 1v1... That aside, ppl that switch also sacrifice passives or critical perks in the active skills...(often not making much of a difference to their playing style or effectiveness in a fight, but just putting it out there)

Is the setup you are suggesting, being able to switch skills at will OUTSIDE of pvp but not when you are INSIDE the ctf or tdm room?



Anyway, that's just my concerns / questions / queries / and observations...

[Solid]

Idk how qualified I am to post here cos I'm not a hardcore pvper (although I enjoy going in every now and then), but my 2 cents is this... (Not calling out anybody in particular at any time in this post btw just random thoughts)

Are you suggesting that skills are only limited to 4 no matter what? Pve or pvp it doesn't matter? If so.....
Ik ur a hardcore pvp and merch ctf but if ur idea is to lock the skills to only being able to physically spec 4, it puts the rest of us that aren't rogues at a disadvantage. It is perfectly possible for rogues to get by in the entire game with the power play pvp 4 skill set: elites, pvp, farming crates, anything, it doesn't matter. However it's highly ineffective for mages AND warriors to go between pvp and elites etc without a respec IF you don't have a larger spec than 4 skills. Eg Mage is most effective with clock ice fire shield for elites, however this is not the most effective pvp build. As it is, many mages switch clock to lightning at the boss etc so there's at least 5 skills already. Likewise with warrior, taunting etc is useless in pvp.
I agree that switching in the middle of a 1v1 fight is somewhat unfair, however like many have said, ctf it wasn't designed for 1v1... That aside, ppl that switch also sacrifice passives or critical perks in the active skills...(often not making much of a difference to their playing style or effectiveness in a fight, but just putting it out there)

Is the setup you are suggesting, being able to switch skills at will OUTSIDE of pvp but not when you are INSIDE the ctf or tdm room?



Anyway, that's just my concerns / questions / queries / and observations...

It would be 100% OK for people to switch in towns.

[Nesox]

I am getting really tired of developers ignoring these issues/threads until they inevitably degrade into petty bickering. Please make me feel like a valued customer and respond to threads in a more timely manor. Thank you.

[Energizeric]

@Energizeric

You did this in pvp area too? i thought only pve did this. So when your samael hungry, you switch to whim to hammerjaw to glacian to slag to colton until samael fresh again? Nice tactic. Rarely seen this tactic in pvp.

Yes, why waste my money on feeding? I have several pets I use in PvP, and I tend to rotate them. I have slag, hammerjaw, ripmaw, ribbit, colton, clyde and misty. All are capped, and all are very good in PvP.

[Zeus]

Meh at me i didn't want to "thank" but reply.

Rich or not rich pet rotation is a must, there are different pets for different situation.

Pet rotation isn't a must, however, I like to use all 4 of my arcane pets from time to time as each have their benefits.

Samael is very very very good at both boss killing & clearing mobs. If you had one, you would realize just how OP it is. Here's a guide that has an in depth understanding to the abilities of Samael: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?114921-Samael-%96-in-depth-look/page3

[cindersx]

Maybe you should try using more than 4 skills. Any class can do it, so all the classes are equal in the amount of skills they can use. Every player gets 35 skill points. Don't really see how it's unfair.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

Maybe you should try using more than 4 skills. Any class can do it, so all the classes are equal in the amount of skills they can use. Every player gets 35 skill points. Don't really see how it's unfair.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

I've already answered your question on a previous thread, please take a look at it.

[cindersx]

I've already answered your question on a previous thread, please take a look at it.

You did? I don't remember it..

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[Madnex]

Well the whole point behind these complaints isn't that a specific class can't use five skills; it's the fact it's inefficient for rogues because of their:

1. extremely low skill cooldowns,
2. relatively small mana pool,
3. lack of two-second invulnerability.



I still pull it off on my rogue occassionally. For example, laying down a veil beforehand then switching to combat medic. One-shot crits with its extra +15% damage buff can cut down 100% of the times any unshielded sorc instantly and also tip the balance on rogue versus warrior fights. It's all about how fast you can react and decide the best course for the situation you're in. And of course how much you've practiced it.

[Solid]

Well the whole point behind these complaints isn't that a specific class can't use five skills; it's the fact it's inefficient for rogues because of their:

1. extremely low skill cooldowns,
2. relatively small mana pool,
3. lack of two-second invulnerability.



I still pull it off on my rogue occassionally. For example, laying down a veil beforehand then switching to combat medic. One-shot crits with its extra +15% damage buff can cut down 100% of the times any unshielded sorc instantly and also tip the balance on rogue versus warrior fights. It's all about how fast you can react and decide the best course for the situation you're in. And of course how much you've practiced it.


While ur switching, a good player can kill you. You're basically a sitting duck, try vsing some good people.

[Madnex]

beforehand
Magic word.

[Zeus]

Well the whole point behind these complaints isn't that a specific class can't use five skills; it's the fact it's inefficient for rogues because of their:

1. extremely low skill cooldowns,
2. relatively small mana pool,
3. lack of two-second invulnerability.



I still pull it off on my rogue occassionally. For example, laying down a veil beforehand then switching to combat medic. One-shot crits with its extra +15% damage buff can cut down 100% of the times any unshielded sorc instantly and also tip the balance on rogue versus warrior fights. It's all about how fast you can react and decide the best course for the situation you're in. And of course how much you've practiced it.

A better one would be razor shield for vs mages, as it will help avoid stuns and veil for vs warriors.

Mad, I can switch pretty darn fast as I am a chrome user but... it is inefficient for the rogue class. Trust me on this, there's just no purpose for it. The skill swap essentially removes the weaknesses of other classes, especially a warrior. Since the rogue's weakness lies in his/her mana bar, the only way to swap an empty mana bar for a replenished mana bar is through a heal or rapid arcane ability use via the summon/dismiss bug (which is being patched). So, for rogues, there will no longer be a counter to 5 skills.

However, that goes to show that the game itself is broken as the combat triangle is skewed towards warriors even without the skill swap. So, with that said, I think mages do need a buff so they can actually fall in with the combat triangle of being able to have an advantage on rogues.

[Imjebus]

However, that goes to show that the game itself is broken as the combat triangle is skewed towards warriors even without the skill swap. So, with that said, I think mages do need a buff so they can actually fall in with the combat triangle of being able to have an advantage on rogues.

Genius.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

Since the rogue's weakness lies in his/her mana bar, the only way to swap an empty mana bar for a replenished mana bar is through a heal or rapid arcane ability use via the summon/dismiss bug (which is being patched).

so we will no longer be able to swap pets in pvp?

[Madnex]

so we will no longer be able to swap pets in pvp?
Well they said they're looking into it so expect a solution in the next patch. Most likely some kind of timed lock on the arcane ability if you ask me.

You'll still be able to swap pets, no worries. Just something to prevent pet spamming will be added.

[Desperoto]

If they disable pet switching, then all mages have to add a lot of rogues on their ignore list i bet

[Uzii]

However, that goes to show that the game itself is broken as the combat triangle is skewed towards warriors even without the skill swap. So, with that said, I think mages do need a buff so they can actually fall in with the combat triangle of being able to have an advantage on rogues.

So its not so much a skill swaping problem but more the skills/class refinements issues

[Zeus]

So its not so much a skill swaping problem but more the skills/class refinements issues

Skill swapping is still a problem because even if classes were buffed to balance, people would still use 5 or more skills.

Just because you solve half of the problem doesn't mean you fixed the issue, you know? :)

[Uzii]

Skill swapping is still a problem because even if classes were buffed to balance, people would still use 5 or more skills.

Just because you solve half of the problem doesn't mean you fixed the issue, you know? :)


if there were more skill slots to use?

Bc truly we have more and more skill points to use, where to put them? Its abt time to get more skill slots, and with the class balance refinements it can work....

I think really the using more skills as 4 is not such a big problem as that unbalance

[Ravager]

Well the whole point behind these complaints isn't that a specific class can't use five skills; it's the fact it's inefficient for rogues because of their:

1. extremely low skill cooldowns,
2. relatively small mana pool,
3. lack of two-second invulnerability.



I still pull it off on my rogue occassionally. For example, laying down a veil beforehand then switching to combat medic. One-shot crits with its extra +15% damage buff can cut down 100% of the times any unshielded sorc instantly and also tip the balance on rogue versus warrior fights. It's all about how fast you can react and decide the best course for the situation you're in. And of course how much you've practiced it.

A better one would be razor shield for vs mages, as it will help avoid stuns and veil for vs warriors.

Mad, I can switch pretty darn fast as I am a chrome user but... it is inefficient for the rogue class. Trust me on this, there's just no purpose for it. The skill swap essentially removes the weaknesses of other classes, especially a warrior. Since the rogue's weakness lies in his/her mana bar, the only way to swap an empty mana bar for a replenished mana bar is through a heal or rapid arcane ability use via the summon/dismiss bug (which is being patched). So, for rogues, there will no longer be a counter to 5 skills.

However, that goes to show that the game itself is broken as the combat triangle is skewed towards warriors even without the skill swap. So, with that said, I think mages do need a buff so they can actually fall in with the combat triangle of being able to have an advantage on rogues.

Well in addition to this, we dont have true one v one. Some skills such as shadow pierce charged and gale would be effective in a large 1v1 room. Perhaps mages dont do good head on vs a warrior but are great evasive fighters. After that, we would be able to verify the triangle balance.

[Instanthumor]

To fix pet spamming, can't you make the cooldown in pet arcane ability like the cooldown on skills? Meaning, even if you activate the arcane ability and switch, you still have to wait the cooldown. I hope that makes sense.

[Solid]

To fix skill swapping, add a lock - skills that are on cool down cannot be swapped!

[extrapayah]

well, if sts really assume/expect balance with 4 skills for each characters in pvp, then it's simple, just make pvp has a safe zone that can be entered first time which allowed players to switch skills and pets, after that, players in pvp should not be allowed to change skills/pets

and i think sts should nerfs/buffs each class differently between pvp and pve, like how sts make grimm's skill to not be able to 1 HKO players in pvp, i think sts should do more like this, e.g. if people complaining high crt rate of AS, then, just reduce/limit the rate when targeting a player in pvp, or make all character has innate critical negate value.

i'm not a pvp players, but a normal pve with normal gears. and having played all three characters (with pure builds and popular skill builds for pve), i feel that rogue is the hardest class to play normally considering a very high rate of potions consumption, while warrior being the easiest one, i believe at some time sts did nerf rogue damage, and after that, i couldn't help to think that rogue is the weakest class with normal gear... also before nerfing some class, sts also should think its effect to new players (e.g. old pve maps difficulties isn't decreased, after certain class is nerfed).

thank you

[Solid]

well, if sts really assume/expect balance with 4 skills for each characters in pvp, then it's simple, just make pvp has a safe zone that can be entered first time which allowed players to switch skills and pets, after that, players in pvp should not be allowed to change skills/pets

and i think sts should nerfs/buffs each class differently between pvp and pve, like how sts make grimm's skill to not be able to 1 HKO players in pvp, i think sts should do more like this, e.g. if people complaining high crt rate of AS, then, just reduce/limit the rate when targeting a player in pvp, or make all character has innate critical negate value.

i'm not a pvp players, but a normal pve with normal gears. and having played all three characters (with pure builds and popular skill builds for pve), i feel that rogue is the hardest class to play normally considering a very high rate of potions consumption, while warrior being the easiest one, i believe at some time sts did nerf rogue damage, and after that, i couldn't help to think that rogue is the weakest class with normal gear... also before nerfing some class, sts also should think its effect to new players (e.g. old pve maps difficulties isn't decreased, after certain class is nerfed).

thank you

Or maybe only allowing to swap/switch after x seconds after spawning, or only when your spawn shield is up?

[Zeus]

To fix pet spamming, can't you make the cooldown in pet arcane ability like the cooldown on skills? Meaning, even if you activate the arcane ability and switch, you still have to wait the cooldown. I hope that makes sense.

It's already being fixed in this sense when the expansion hits, which is why people are asking for this to be fixed as well as it is essentially the same concept.

[Solid]

It's already being fixed in this sense when the expansion hits, which is why people are asking for this to be fixed as well as it is essentially the same concept.

Exactly.

[Solid]

Already thought of it :
Only use 4 skills

Yep,

[Solid]

Already thought of it :
Only use 4 skills

Yep,

[Madnex]

I don't think spamming will achieve what logical arguments didn't. Changes in UI? Maybe a couple of months after expansion.

[Instanthumor]

Yes, can we not already?

[Metztli]

This seems a PvP concern only ... On that matter, I'm in agreement with what TheMiraclebird said:

The point of ctf is not to 1v1, so if you guys are going to 1v1, then atleast dont complain about my class is UP so ill use 6 skills. If you want to do something that is not intended (1v1 in the ctf arena) then face the concequences (classes have strengths and weaknesses 1v1). In a mixed class fight, you wont see people switch skills a lot - because the classes support each other...

I think the solution is to make swapping skills more easy for everyone, so the 2 second invulnerability that rogues lack isn't an issue. As someone who does mainly PvE, I would like to see loadouts for skills (not just inventory) so that I can swap skills more easily.

[Madnex]

5
4
3

Just counting down the time before you get bashed by another rogue complaining more skills are not fair because they don't spec enough INT for the appropriate mana pool.

[zephyruh]

To fix pet spamming, can't you make the cooldown in pet arcane ability like the cooldown on skills? Meaning, even if you activate the arcane ability and switch, you still have to wait the cooldown. I hope that makes sense.

It's already being fixed in this sense when the expansion hits, which is why people are asking for this to be fixed as well as it is essentially the same concept.

Not the same concept bro. When you switch a pet and summon the same one the arcane ability resets. When you switch a skill the ability cd isn't reset you are just switching to another skill. I'm pretty sure they won't fix pet switching but the pet resetting. Pet switching and skill switching is the same concept. Pet resetting and skill switching is not

[Xbadboyx]

Geo, xbadboy, etc.
me and geo are using 5 skills "axe-ss-vb-jug-heal" anything else u wanna say?

[Xbadboyx]

I dont see the point in posting the same subject for many times , probably dev are working on swapping skills since this subject was posted for the first time .

and since this subject was repeated a lot this thread wont change anything so its pretty useless ,i hope members ignore repeated posts , no need for wasting time.

[zephyruh]

I dont see the point in posting the same subject for several times , probably dev are working on swapping skills
since this subject was posted for the first time ,so i hope members ignore repeated posts , no need to waste time.

I've been using rogue lately and have no problem vs wars that switch skills.

[Xbadboyx]

I've been using rogue lately and have no problem vs wars that switch skills.
me too and ive killed maul/glaive users easily .

today ive saw a match between full gear rogue vs full gear tank , while he was on jugg buff the rogue crit him aimed shot 50% hp lmao . insane

[Zeus]

me too and ive killed maul/glaive users easily .

today ive saw a match between full gear rogue vs full gear tank , while he was on jugg buff the rogue crit him aimed shot 50% hp lmao . insane

*cough cough* I wonder who that was. O_O

[Xbadboyx]

*cough cough* I wonder who that was. O_O
oh i understand it you have nice sense of humor :) , i cant remember all of them but i think 3 names will be enough , pm me in game and i will tell u , ofc i wont mention them on forums .