Do we understand Damage and DPS?

[Crowsfoot]

As many of us agree in game, Damage and DPS relate to the power of our skills and basic attack respectively. Therefore, it would be easy to assume that the Arcane Maul would deal more damage than the Mythic Glaive. Then two warriors meet and find that the glave user deals more damage and everyone quickly claims a glitch. I will point out that the glaive has more armor so the mauls sheer power is reduced when attacking a glaive user. This is why the claim to a glitch was buried.


PvP Data:
Axe Throw: glaive dealt 50 more damage per hit on average.
Basic attack charged: maul dealt 60 more damage per hit
Basic attack uncharged​​​: maul dealt 40 more damage per hit.
*Bias was that we were not hitting the same target.

Today, I preformed a similar test (it started out as a test of whether or not Axe throw stuns) when the question was raised as to which weapon was better. The results were consistent with what I expected until we tested our basic attack. The maul, with far less DPS dealt more damage charged and uncharged than the glaive. We then went to Elite Rooks Nest and found the maul dealing more damage from its basic attacks but less from its skills even though we were both hitting the same target.


PvE Data:

Axe Throw: Glaive dealt 210 more damage per hit
Basic attack charged: Maul dealt 180 more damage per hit
Basic attack uncharged: Maul dealt 130 more damage per hit.
*this is the least biased data since we both hit the same target.

Precautions taken to remove bias:
-All pets were removed.
-Any hits that were critical was removed as faulty.
-Any hits that caused a peoc were ignored.
-Our data size was 5 hits each in PvP and 3 hits each in the Elite map.
-Both of us have similar passive, the only difference was armor for one of us and intelligence for the later.
-We both have the same points in Axe throw (the skill tested).
-All gear besides weapons was identical for each respective player.
-We took turns attacking so damage dealt could be properly associated with the dealer.
-The average of all data was rounded to the nearest tens place.

It should be noted that the maul user had more super gems than the glaive user. However, the stats page indicates that the glaive user had had more DPS and the Maul user had more Damage.

The Conclusion:
We may have all been wrong. Either DPS relates to our skills and Damage to pur basic attacks, or one of the two weapons tested (the Arcane Maul and Mythic Glaive) is glitched.

Please leave any critiques of my methodology, assessments of the data, or findings of your own in the comments. Additionally, special thanks to Venom for helping me with these tests.

[Anarchist]

Whaaat i thought maul gave higher skill damage and normal damage and its only minus was that it was slower than a glaive!!!

?è_é?

Did you try removing your gear too and leaving only the glaive and the maul?

[Venom]

Dear STS, please give me full worth of my Maul, increase the amount of damage my skills deal. Thanks!

[Sheener]

Thats cool. Too bad I cant even come close to having enough money for either lol.

[Morholt]

3-5 hits is a really small sample number.
The statistical room of error/deviation is huge here.

[Sheener]

Yes I agree u need a much larger sample so u can include crits because the crit of a maul should be better than a crit from glaive

[phillyr]

I wish a dev would properly explain how the game works in that aspect. If it was simple, a higher damage would in turn give you a higher damage per second. But as most of us know a higher dps weapon usually gives us lower damage from a similar counterpart weapon. And you are correct I(and many others) was always under the assumption that higher damage meant skill damage and dps was relevant to the weapon attack

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Anarchist]

Try it on yourselves in a pvp room:
- Be naked holding only your weapons
- remove your pets
- respec to have the same passives and skill.


I really want to know if this true..

[Zeus]

Taken from PL, skill damage is entirely different from weapon damage.

Weapon damage is the damage that is reflected from the auto attack of your weapon. Skill damage is damage that is inflicted via your skills, but can be boosted up via a weapon.

Now, the skill damage of a glaive is roughly 60 higher per skill than the skill damage of maul. It's always been like this in most of STG's games, where a maul weapon type has relatively low skill damage in exchange for high attack damage.

[Sheener]

But glaive does attack faster so if glaive attacks faster and does more skill damage then glaive must be way better. Lol

[Crowsfoot]

Yes I agree u need a much larger sample so u can include crits because the crit of a maul should be better than a crit from glaive
In elite the glaive dealt 470 on the money three times in a row. I didn't see an incentive to test more since the maul dealt 652 twice in a row and 650 the third hit. However, I will do a sample size of 20 when Venom logs back on.

Crits is an entirely different argument. I don't want to skew the data with a second independent variable.

[Crowsfoot]

But glaive does attack faster so if glaive attacks faster and does more skill damage then glaive must be way better. Lol
I didn't think of attack speed this will be hard to test but I will certainly try to

[Crowsfoot]

Try it on yourselves in a pvp room:
- Be naked holding only your weapons
- remove your pets
- respec to have the same passives and skill.


I really want to know if this true..
I have no plat and never buy, if a maul user is willing to copy my spec I am willing to test this though.

[Crowsfoot]

I wish a dev would properly explain how the game works in that aspect. If it was simple, a higher damage would in turn give you a higher damage per second. But as most of us know a higher dps weapon usually gives us lower damage from a similar counterpart weapon. And you are correct I(and many others) was always under the assumption that higher damage meant skill damage and dps was relevant to the weapon attack

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
If STS made an explanation guide twice as long and confusing as the apple terms of agreement I would read it. I was perplexed with the test results (to be honest we stubbles upon this on accident when we were aimlessly stabbing each other and venom pointed out the stark differences in damage).

[phillyr]

If STS made an explanation guide twice as long and confusing as the apple terms of agreement I would read it. I was perplexed with the test results (to be honest we stubbles upon this on accident when we were aimlessly stabbing each other and venom pointed out the stark differences in damage).

I think a lot players would read it, or at least the parts that confuse even the most dedicated players to the game



Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Anarchist]

According to crows test apparently glaive is better than maul, but after some maths i think maul is overall better than glaive.

Damage dealth by maul in the test was 130 more.

Lets say the basic damage on a normal attack for:
-glaive: 100
-maul:100+130 =230.

and lets say glaive attacks two times faster than a maul...(I think it's slower than x2 times not sure though)
1Second:

glaive:200dmg
maul:230 dmg

multiply the damage per X2 for maul and glaive on the second attack total damage would be:

-glaive :400dmg
-maul: 460 dmg.

Now if a glaive skill does +210dmg that means glaive will recover the gap of -60 dmg it lost from the normal attacks.
After 2 second + 1 skill

axe throw= 100 dmg :

-glaive : 400+100+210=710
-maul : 460+100= 560.


Now the skill has to cool down axe throw CD=7Sec

after 7 sec and following the rules i applied earlier:

-Glaive: (200*7)+710=2110dmg
-Maul: (230*7)+560=2170dmg

I didn't consider critics proc(MAUL PROC IS BEASTY) or damage variations just used crows avrage damage.



Conclusions:

1. No, i don't have anything doing my gf isn't at home.
2. Maul is still better for overall damage dealth ergo dmg over dps.

[inkredible]

my understanding has always been that the damage u see (530 on maul) is "like" the normal attack hits
skill damage is calculated based on ur damage plus the other factors that contribute to it

if you compare rogue with blades and warrior with maul normal attack, without any buff etc, warriors will hit higher than rogues (based on normal attacks)

so it make sense to me that maul would be hitting higher via normal/ basicc attack charge/ uncharge than glaive since glaive has lower weapon damage

[Solid]

3-5 hits is a really small sample number.
The statistical room of error/deviation is huge here.

This, and glaive may be bugged.

[Ravager]

It can be the skills are calculated by certain stats as well. Mage shield is not just calculated by int but str as well. Maybe a warriors axe throw is bugged or calculated similarly. Most likely not, but still should be considered.

[falmear]

Check the skills page when wielding each weapons, what does the damage say.

[Zeus]

I didn't think of attack speed this will be hard to test but I will certainly try to

I'm sure you know the math behind it, but I would find a time interval where both weapons would be able to hit a whole integer of attacks.

Secondly, I would wear no other gear than the maul/glaive to reduce the chance to crit in this interval.

Lastly, as I said before, the glaive is always going to hit harder with a skill.

The formulas have been stated for it and are buried deep inside the forums.

However, skill damage is entirely different from weapon damage.

When you use a skill, you are not attacking with your weapon but with a skill. So, think of it like a function: instead of "x" damage, you do "y" damage.

As I said before, weapon damage will boost skill damage - but - the amount of skill damage is also based on the weapon type class if I'm not mistaken.

If you check an L36 maul versus and architect blade's skill damage - you will see that.

So, in short, if you have a build that has one attack skill, a maul should suit you more.

If you have a build with more than one attack skill, the higher skill damage of a glaive will be potentially more useful if we are ignoring proc's.

[Sheener]

Warriors have a pretty high crit. With venge plus a crit pet like samael glacien or ribbit. So dont forget ab crit

[moot]

It make sense that maul auto attack damage is higher. But it is a hammer so glaive will deliver more hit per second than maul thus surpasses the auto attack damage difference resulting in higher dps in glaive in stat page.


idk wtf im writing sorry -_-

[becky_xil]

I hv tested this once in pvp.. im glaiver.. the dmg I deal almost the same with mauler.. thats is why I don't even bother to change to maul

Send using my cellphone.. yes my cellphone

[Sheener]

Well. This turns the logic of this game into silliness. I consider myself great at math and this blows all I have learned

[Milan Lame Man]

Check the skills page when wielding each weapons, what does the damage say.
This.
Let's break it to two parts, listed weapon dmg -> listed skill dmg -> actual skill dmg

I am not familiar with the two weapons but I assume none of them has target armor reduction?