Dual build int/str?

[Lesrider]

My Mage has always been an int Mage (with a bit of dex). But I looted a screaming shield last night and now I'm debating whether to try a dual build str/int for my Mage or just stay Mage and sell the shield. Any dual builds these days? Is it a good build after the update? I'm not a huge fan of hand-to-hand combat, but I do like the idea of extra armor and possibly tanking. So should I do it? At the very least it'd give me a new goal, as right now I'm kinda bored.

If I do decide to do it, what equipment do I need for it to work and what stats? Thanks.

[Ellyidol]

Personally I'm str/int pally. I used to be pure. It's still pretty good after update especially with emphasis on skills. Not much hand to hand combat aside from the small hits you put in while casting spells, or just that one hit to kill a mob. I dual with int since i still want as much heal, spell damage and mana despite using rift.

I use a rift set and dont regret it one bit. I find it way better than the squishy cosmos mage i used to have. The rift and less int reduces your heal by like 20 points i think. I think it cuts down your lightning damage max points by 40 but thats the most it does.

I like it better since i can survive heaps easier making it easier for me to combo skills instead of catching aggro every time and dying if i mess up. Never switched back to my cosmos yet since i switched :)

[Kalielle]

Yes, do it!!!!!! Str/int dual rocks ever since the updates! Just consider: rift has mana regen, int mages were boosted and a keepers staff useful for clearing but still need survivability for rushing, and more emphasis on spells means lots of int makes sense even for a non-dual pala. I abandoned my dex mage in favor of my int/str dual and rarely use anything else for farming. I use the Keeper's Staff for the clearing part, then when it comes to the rush I just switch to str and never have to worry about a thing. Don't even need to armor pot for Overlord! :D

For other maps it's really convenient too. Like yesterday I was leveling some friends in Map 2 with my Keepers Staff, and when Mynas spawned I just changed to str and voila, we had a tank. And for the Keeper I could choose to go str for easy tanking, or stay with the staff if we really needed more dps. (Yes, I can tank Keeper unpotted with my staff mage after the latest nerf. No, it's not fun.)

Oh, and I can solo farm the first boss in nighmares with my str side without much difficulty, whereas with an int mage I die a lot more. Scimitar soul leech really saves the day there.

My build is 128 str/125 int/2 dex naked. You need at least 125 to equip a two-handed weapon, so the minimum for int is 125 and for str 125 if you ever want to equip a hammer.

I wear full cosmos with keeper's staff, and full rift set on the str side. My mana regen with the staff is 12, and on the str side it's 10 (not too bad!). Str side health pool is 536, armor 134.

Lower level gear for quick switching takes some figuring out. Ideally you want str Thoth level 40 pieces for building the int side, and Osiris pieces plus zuraz plasma (level 43 works great) for the str side. Also if you go only 125 int you will need a wand and shield (Thoth works fine if you don't have cosmos) for one step switching to cosmos robe and helm from the lower level gear - then from there it's easy to equip the staff.

Anyway, I'd be happy to help out if you have questions. Add Clusterstorm - I'm online a lot these days. (I know I have you on Kalielle but I don't use her that often these days - for the reasons described above. :D)

[Lesrider]

Cool, you've almost convinced me. It does sound like fun. I haven't been using my bear since the latest update, so I can strip him of his rift and give it to my mage :)

I am a bit confused on the lower-lvl gear. I want to make sure I can get the cheapest pieces I need. I've already sold most of my pinks I wasn't using, so will probably have to buy. And they all have to be lvl 40, not 45 right? Sounds pricy.
And why Zuraz plasma? I have a lvl 45 -- would that work?

I do have Clusterstorm on one of my chars, probably my Mage (I think we were farming shock lances a little while back).

[Kalielle]

To be honest I mostly figure out the low lever gear by experimentation too, so I don't know all the combinations that would work. Let me see if I can explain as best what I know - it's gonna be a bit complicated but bear with me. :)

There are two issues with the low level gear: 1) what gear do you absolutely need, because you can't equip the level 50 pieces otherwise; and 2) what gear you ideally want so that you can go from one build to the other using the quick load slots.

Let me take on the first question because it's much simpler. You need 154 str or int to equip a level 50 helm, so that's what you need to be aiming for. (All other level 50 stuff requires 158, but the helm really saves you. Once you equip the helm you get plus 11 boost so you can equip the 158 stuff.) So if you'll have, say 125 in a stat naked, then 154 minus 125 is 29, so that's how many points you need to get from gear to equip the helm. So you can do 3 pieces that add 7 in that stat (there are lots of them, even some level 19 pinks will work) and one that adds 8. Or you could go 126 in that stat and then four 7 pieces will work (4x7 = 28...). So if you go at least 126 in both str and int then you'll only need pinks that add 7 int or str.

I hope the above makes sense... The idea is to just do the math and see how many points you need. If you go 126 in both stats it should be easy to find some cheap low level pinks out there that add plus 7 int/str. Look for one handed gear and shield of course, so you can wear 4 pieces not 3.

Now, the second question is whether you can save your build with your lower level gear in a quick load slot and your higher level gear build in another quick load slot, and go from naked to quick load slot 1 to quick load 2 without your gear being unequipped because you don't meet the requirements. Well, this works with some gear and not with others, and for no reason that I can figure out. I think it has to do with the order in which PL equips your gear and calculates your requirements when you quick load gear. This is the part for which I found it helps to have low level pinks that add 8 in a stat - meaning level 40 (and maybe 41) stuff. Zuraz - either lance or plasma - adds 9 str which is really neat; you don't strictly need it at all, I just found it helps me quick load builds that you'd think you couldn't load at once. Level 45 might work just fine - really a question of experimenting at that point.

[Lesrider]

Ok, so can I ask you exactly which items you use for all that? Then I can shop around and see if it's viable. Right now I don't really have any items lower than lvl 45 (maybe 1 or two lvl 41 or 43 but doubt they're the right ones) and I don't want to buy a whole bunch of items just to find out it won't work!

Thanks again! :)

[Kalielle]

Int intermediate build (requires 127 str to equip these items):
All lev 40 Thoth: mynas helm, djinn spear, thoth mail, pharaos shield.

Int final build with wand (can't quick load staff):
cosmos helm
cosmos robe
level 50 djinn wand of thoth (other levels work too)
lev 40 pharaos shield of thoth
(Cosmos wand and eye would work too, it's just that I'm using them on my other mage).

Str intermediate build (works for 128 str, don't know for others):
Lev 25 conquerors ursan helm (any plus 7 str item will do)
Lev 43 or 45 Zuraz
lev 45 mynas plate of Osiris
Lev 45 Osiris buckler

Str final build: full rift 4 piece

I actually just tried the above build with the 3 level 45 items and you can quick load it from naked in one move.

But you will still need some plus 7 items to build the build for the first time. You can quick load it if you have it saved, but you can't do it if you equip items one by one.
I'd be happy to lend you some plus 7 stuff if you like. Also, I bought a lev 40 mynas thoth plate for 25k yesterday - if you need it I'll sell it at that price.

[Typhee]

Kalielle conviced me ! I'm going str/int with my mage. I'm just missing sun scim and laser wand and buying them for reasonable price.

@Lesrider I already have my bear str/dex and to load my rift and void I'm using the pinks iceberg and shivering from FN. I guess I'll do the same for str/int and have some extra to sell if you interested.

@Kalielle I have some question too, for my bear I have 125 str / 129 dex. Can I do 125 str and 129 int on my mage or better 127/127. If I put 125 str can I wear Gurg hammer or how much str I need minimum if I want to use it ? Tyvm

[Lesrider]

Wow, sounds like I have to do some shopping around.

I feel like such a moron right now, but which items can be borrowed temporarily and which ones are needed for the loadouts?

And Kalielle, how come you have two mages? Do you still use your int Mage at all?

[Kalielle]

I feel like such a moron right now, but which items can be borrowed temporarily and which ones are needed for the loadouts?


A plus 7 helm, a lev 45 zuraz and 2 level 45 osiris worked for me for the build that's needed for the loadout. So you would need to have those permanently. (If you have lower level zuraz and osiris those are good too.) If you're going with the level 45 stuff for the load out you'll need to borrow some plus 7 items to bridge the gap and equip them the first time. Because think about it, you'll have 128 str, you equip the helm and it's gonna be 128 plus 7 equals 135 str... now what? You can't equip level 45 stuff yet, you have to have some stuff that requires only 135 str and adds 7 bonus, and that's mainly lev 35 (or maybe 39) and lower str stuff. Once you equip one of those then you'll have 135+7 = 142, which I believe is the requirement for level 45 gear - so now the last 2 pieces can be level 45. So I guess you'd need just one other low level plus 7 item temporarily.

Yes, I am just thinking through this as I type it, so no guarantees. :D But I hope from reading it you can see what the though process is when you figure out what will work and what won't.

Typhee - glad to hear I'm having such influence! :D I think you are given 2 points in dex as a mage that you can't remove, so you can't do 125/129, but you can do 125/128 or 126/127 in any combination you choose - I don't see why any would be better than the other, except maybe if you have 127 str you can use a lev 41 Osiris shield instead of the Gur eye if you're gonna be using wand, which gives you more armor. But then again if you're dual I see no reason to use the wand much, if you need survivability just switch to str.

You can wear the hammer with 125 str. As far as I know all level 50 rifts require at most 158 str (but don't just take my word please, do double check requirements on any pieces of gear that you know you absolutely want to wear!) So work backwards from that to figure out the bare minimum requirement: with a hammer you can only wear 3 pieces and they each give you plus 11 str. 158 minus 3x11 is 125. So that's why 125 is the minimum for two handed weapons, like staff blaster and hammer. (Btw you might think that by the same logic you would only need 158 minus 4x11 equals 114 str if you're only ever going to use four pieces - but that would actually be too little str because you have no intermediate pieces to bridge the gap to 154 to equip the helm.)


And Kalielle, how come you have two mages? Do you still use your int Mage at all?

Haha, loong story. Back in the days of AO2 bear rushing I wanted to do an experiment, to see if I could build the perfect rush paladin and be good enough to get accepted in all my bear groups which booted non-bears - without telling them who I was. (What can I say, I had a lot of free time on my hands. :D) So that's how Clusterstorm was born - and yes incidentally he did very well rushing with all the bears, and especially in map 5 with all the mummy debuffs he came in very handy. Ah, I miss the good old days. Anyways, so Kalielle is now pure int for maximum spellpower, and I use her mainly for casual clearing games and when I like the challenge of working together with a tank - because she is quite fragile. :)

[Lesrider]

Before I start spending money on all those items -- do you notice a big difference in spell effectiveness, hit %, etc? I like that my Mage can nuke everything now -- not sure yet that I'm ready to give that up, if there's a noticeable difference from having all that strength.

[Typhee]

Well I checked with my dual bear, with 125 str and 129 dex.
I first load my Iceberg gears then my Rift and I can equip the gurg hammer at the end.
So 125 str is enough. I will go with 125 str and 128 int and hope I will enjoy my dual mage ^^.

[Kalielle]

Typhee, I just remembered if you're gonna use lev 40 Thoths for the intermediate build, then you want 127 in str at least. (There is no level 40 int Thoth.)

[Typhee]

I'll use Frozen Nightmare gears and for helms int and str I have lvl 25 of each

[Lesrider]

Got it all working. Thanks Kalielle for the help. I hope I enjoy my dual wield as much as you do :)

[Lesrider]

Gotta say, though, my now-naked bear is very sad.

[Lesrider]

So far really liking my new build :). It's nice to be able to switch to pally if it turns out to be a weak team. That way if everyone else is dying, at least I don't ;)

[Typhee]

Omg cant wait to respec, I need sun scim so bad lol

[Kalielle]

Gotta say, though, my now-naked bear is very sad.

Rofl!!


So far really liking my new build :). It's nice to be able to switch to pally if it turns out to be a weak team. That way if everyone else is dying, at least I don't ;)

Yeah, I farmed Victory a lot this morning and the 4 other team members were bow/blaster birds. Great team, but def needed a tank - so I just used my pala side and had no problems. Imagine what that would have been like with int mage... :D

[Lesrider]

I still prefer to have one bear tank (for the skills), but yeah, I make a pretty decent tank now :)

Omg it makes such a difference when you have a team that knows what it's doing. Had a few motley crews last night, and people were just dying all over the place (mostly bc our bear liked to smash barrels into everyone, when he's supposed to be rushing and keeping us safe!). Then today I was playing with a solid group of friends and the bosses all went down so fast. It's a pretty good argument for not even playing if your friends aren't around...

[Kalielle]

Yeah, I used to try to pull together groups of randoms just for the challenge of it, but now I just wait until my friends are online and farm with them. They know what they're doing and farming goes like clockwork. Also I don't have to wonder if it's my fault when things fail (for not selecting the right group, because I was being nice and wanted to give someone a chance and then they fail on me), or explain to some level 48 scarab bow bird who joins why I don't really want him there (really is there even any nice way of dealing with that situation? Sometimes it feels like the motto is, "be nice, farm efficiently - choose one").

Btw we've got to get together for farming at some point. :) Seemes I just happen to be in games already whenever you get started, and vice versa... We'll get the timing right one of these days, I swear.

[Arterra]

It's official. Arterra is dual int and str. Full cosmos, able to use staff, and now farming for power armor (yea I know good luck with that)

I have a specific set of changes for victory lap:
Start with str to take down middle room (force cutter for armor debuff) switch to keeper staff to clear mobs in any room that is next. Once enough are gone for boss purposes, mynas is wand and eye (stay away from Aoe attack) and the rest are with my cutter, to make it quicker.

Love it.

[Lesrider]

A lvl 48 Mage joined the other night when we already had two mages. She said "don't boot" when she popped in, and everyone else seemed eager to go already so I didn't boot. I can't recall what happened, bc it might have been one of those nights that no matter how long I waited, I couldn't get a good team together. But if I see a group is weak, I might just do all the bosses except OL, so at least if we wipe I didn't lose elixer money. I'll explain it that way, too. If I don't feel we have a strong enough team for OL, I'll tell them. The good members of the group know it's not their fault, and will usually follow into the next game. Sometimes the weak link takes the hint and doesn't join again.

And yep, I've been inviting you when we need a second Mage, but haven't been able to get you in yet ;)

Arterra, I find this the fastest way to do Victory Lap: clear Keeper room first (I use keeper staff as long as I'm not the only Mage/tank). Then pally to clear/rush mynas depending on how your team handles it. Then either rush desert or pot rush OL/Gurg on the same tank elixer.

[Lesrider]

I basically use tank for any rushing so I have better chance of surviving, especially the darn barrels! I sometimes do a quick switch to cosmos when I get to Gurg, bc I like having range attack in there. And the armor does no good anyway. The orbs are what counts. I find it easier to attack AND grab the orb if I'm using a ranged weapon instead of sword.

[Arterra]

Yup starting to stick with wand for Gurg. Maybe put on some darkbolt if my stats allow it for -hit%.

Sorry if I don't join. Either browsing CS or currently engaged in Ol fight lol.

I think that as soon as I get a power armor, I will be able to use a Gurgox hammer in str. I'm thinking that it's best use would be in the desert (as long as I don't grab aggro, will stop his moving around).
Hammer ideas for mages? I know generally risky, but I've always wanted a hammer pally.

[Lesrider]

I have a Gurg hammer that I didn't bother selling since they're so cheap now. But haven't found the situation where I'd prefer it. For my bear, maybe if I were clearing low levels. But why would I clear low levels with my bear if I have a mag/pally? And why would I use a hammer on my Mage if I can use an Aoe keeper staff?
So I don't really know when the hammer would come in handy, other than just for fun smashing the ground lol.

[ONANEBEZ]

I have 125 INT and I can only get it to go up to 156, so I can't equip most of the level 50 gear. What am I doing wrong?

[Ellyidol]

156 is enough to equip the int gear.

Refer to : http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?13772-Dual-Spec-Guide

[ONANEBEZ]

The Keeper's Staff requires 158 INT to equip. I don't understand how it would let me equip it if I only have 156.

[Ellyidol]

You put on a Laser Wand + Gurgox Eye first. Then you manually equip your keeper staff.

Under the guide its how to equip two-handed weapons.

[ONANEBEZ]

I want to switch directly from naked to my 156 INT set to my full mage set. I would need three preload slots to do this, and I thought the goal was to only use two.

[Ellyidol]

Whats your base int first of all?

[ONANEBEZ]

Base INT is 125

[Ellyidol]

You then use a boost gear set up right? To boost your grade up to 154? Or how much is your boosted int?

[Lesrider]

Try base int/str each at 126. And the items you use to boost makes a difference.

I managed to do it with a purple armor for both int/str, so I didn't have to buy pinks yay!

The loadouts should be:
1 for int stat boost
1 for cosmos/wand/eye
1 for str stat boost
1 for full rift

If you want to wear your keeper staff, you have to equip it manually. So it's best used as a starting weapon, not so good for quick switching mid-battle.

[Ellyidol]

Try base int/str each at 126. And the items you use to boost makes a difference.

I managed to do it with a purple armor for both int/str, so I didn't have to buy pinks yay!

The loadouts should be:
1 for int stat boost
1 for cosmos/wand/eye
1 for str stat boost
1 for full rift

If you want to wear your keeper staff, you have to equip it manually. So it's best used as a starting weapon, not so good for quick switching mid-battle.

Spot on.

How did you manage with a purple armour for int/str? :O They gave +7 too?

[Htiek]

purple that +8 is lvl47/49/50 fate/destiny

[Lesrider]

Spot on.

How did you manage with a purple armour for int/str? :O They gave +7 too?

Nope they're only +6, but somehow I managed to get it to work. Not even sure I used any +8 items -- the rest may just be +7. will have to double check.

That new stormstrike wand came in handy. I thought I'd have almost none of the items I needed, but turned out I was just missing three, so bought one and got two from a friend :)

[Lesrider]

purple that +8 is lvl47/49/50 fate/destiny

I don't think that would work for dual wield stat boosting....?

[Lesrider]

Oh and you need to equip the rift/cosmos helm first before any other cosmos/rift -- the helm is 154 while the rest is like 158.
The boosting helmets also have to be lower level to loadout correctly. I tried with lvl 45 helms, but they unequipped during loadout. A lvl 45 eye did work, tho. So just play around with items you have before you go buying anything.

[Htiek]

can use for boost, but not the best way...
only 1 good point, during switching, lvl47 gear have more armor vaule

normally i use lvl39/40 thoth str & osiris for boost

it have a rule for loadout, it go for eq the helm first, so u need the req of str of the helm

[Lesrider]

I haven't kept an ao3 purp long enough to check. I always liquidate on the spot. Maybe i'll try one next time before liquidating.

Yeah, gotta love those few seconds during switch, when you see flashes of red but can't tell how much damage you've been dealt.

[ONANEBEZ]

My boosted INT is 156. I guess I HAVE to wear one of the Cosmos helmets, then.

[Lesrider]

Ok I have now managed to use purples for 3/8 of my boosting equipment. I'm still trying to see if I can find a fourth that would work, so I can sell the pinks. Lesson: don't liquidate Purps till you take a good hard look at them!

Edit: Make that 4/8 are Purps, and none of the pinks are
8. Somehow it works...

[chrononh]

Which purples are those? All my low level purples have only 5 or 6 points each at most.

[Lesrider]

Mine have 6 int, but I realized that there might be a glitch that allows it to work. My pre-rift/cosmos stats are only 152 & 153, but I'm able to wear all the rift/cosmos, and it works with the loadouts. I see in another thread someone was even able to do it with 150 str. I'd almost Respec to less str, but I'm afraid the second I do that the devs will prob change it and I'll be screwed.

[Lesrider]

Oh man I shouldn't have said anything. I think they fixed the glitch with the last update :(. My str loadout with 152 doesn't work anymore :(

[gentlemen1]

can i be a paladin with str:154 and int:100?
i jsut want to use Axe and Shield

[Lesrider]

can i be a paladin with str:154 and int:100?
i jsut want to use Axe and Shield

Yes you can be a pally with that setup, but you won't be able to switch to Mage with only 100 int. If you only want to be pally, then that's fine.

[gentlemen1]

ok is the skill power with that setup decent?
i mean are the healing and dmgin ability with it fine than being 128/125?

[Lesrider]

IMO, you'd be better of with more int. Int is really important for any Mage. The str is only really necessary for being able to equip items with better armor. I, personally would never sacrifice that much into for str. In fact, I made sure I put the absolute minimum str I needed to dual wield. I think I have 1 or 2 more point in int over str.

Others may have a different opinion on the matter, but that's mine.

[gentlemen1]

could it be possible you can post your build here?

[Lesrider]

I I have 127 int and 125 str, with one point leftover. I'll prob put it into int eventually, but right now I like having the unused point to prevent me from accidentally using a respec (until they add a confirmation button to it).

[Pharcyde]

I did 125 int and 128 str for survivability. you can 126 126 it to balance or put the rest into int for extra damage.