Changes to Mages!

[Alhuntrazeck]

Hey AL players and developers (I hope),

This season has seen mages being significantly more weak than the last due to the damage nerf. But that's not the entire reason...mages simply do not have enough survivability.

Disclaimer: These ideas are NOT entirely mine. They are from several community members and some from my own marvelously intelligent smurfish head.

Here we go...

I. An Armor Buff:
A mage has the lowest armor of all classes in the game, which partially explains why rogues always one-shot us. Instead of nerfing rogues, why not buff our armor? I'm sure most, if not all, mages would like to see their armor comparable to a rogues'.

II. An Armor Buffing Skill Addition:
This works as an and/or to 1. A neat option would be to merge the mana and heal regen upgrades in Lifegiver into one Regen upgrade, and making the last upgrade one that temporarily increases armor of all allies by, say 30%. So when the mage is about to die and casts Lifegiver which heals like 60% hp, the mage is also increasing armor so his death won't be quite so fast. :)

III. Reduce Stun Invulnerability for Mages' skills:
If STG could make the stun invulnerability FOR MAGES way lower than its current (I believe) 7 seconds it'd make mages much more a deadly foe in PvP. A decent time would be 3 seconds, which means all of our charged fireball (which, let's be honest, is the only skill other than gale force that stuns for mages - more on that later) attacks will stun! This wouldn't be too different from warriors stacking skyward smash's stun and arcane maul proc.

IV. Make Ice a Stunning Skill:
This isn't very probable but...If Ice could stun as well as freeze, it would be great to use in 5v5s and 1v1s. It would, of course, be subject to stun immunity so it wouldn't be OP but I think this would work great if worked correctly. It would also be tons more useful than Gale Force IMHO.

EDIT: I realize this would work better if Ice was made to ROOT instead of stun, similar to Crawly. The rooted player would still be able to fire skills but would be unable to move. :)

V. Buffing Arcane Staff:
The staff in itself is the best weapon a mage can have but honestly, it isn't quite comparable to mauls and hooks back in their day. IMHO, its partly due to its disgusting proc - compared to a maul's its pathetic. I propose making it:
+60 INT, +30 STR, +30 DEX, and a stun. Sure, it's OP, but isn't that what arcanes are supposed to be?

I realize most of these suggestions revolve around fixing the squishiness of mages, but that's what I intended for in the first place.

Constructive criticisms are welcome. Please voice what you have to say! :)

EDIT: I just thought I'll post some of the other interesting threads about mages and buffing (as per .Sorc.'s recommendation):


http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?t=134933
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?t=134319
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?t=134519

Too lazy to dig up more...

Anyway this has become quite a problem. I hope the Devs have a solution for us! :)

[Hoardseeker]

FULLY Agreed!!! Also check the thread Mages in general discussion and Quote it and add it to your thread :)

[Anarchist]

Buff this, enhance those, buff that, add more of these, give us that.

The only buffs i would give to a mage are the arcane staff buff and slight reducement of the other 2 classes stun invulnerability.

Stop.

[Giuewek]

+1

Sent from my HTC Desire C using Tapatalk

[Bless]

Buff this, enhance those, buff that, add more of these, give us that.

The only buffs i would give to a mage are the arcane staff buff and slight reducement of the other 2 classes stun invulnerability.

Stop. Exactly. When rogues stop asking for buffs and nerfs, mages somewhat feel the need to go on and on about getting buffs when they are infact flawed - wether in the sense that they are ungeared appropriately vs full mythic players or that they want to be able to kill both other classes easily in 4 seconds...

Alhunt my friend, its not that mages are weak, its maybe your gear :/ I have crap gear and I accept that fact and therefore dont complain when I get killed by somebody better geared because I know that they have an advantage over gear. I've had to gear up with mythics 3 times which cost me 50m easily, and thats the reason I have just mythic helm and armor now.

5 buffs on mages? Thats more buffs than the rogue has ever gotten (significant buffs) since pvp started. It would be silly to implement even 2 of those as your and my definition of balanced is when yours or my class is OP.

Lets just say that in a fair 5v5 all classes are balanced, because in fact they are balanced, try a 5v5 with two warriors, two/one mage and two/one rogue and you'll see my point.


Now lets just stop with all this :)

[Instanthumor]

Buff this, enhance those, buff that, add more of these, give us that.

The only buffs i would give to a mage are the arcane staff buff and slight reducement of the other 2 classes stun invulnerability.

Stop.


Exactly. When rogues stop asking for buffs and nerfs, mages somewhat feel the need to go on and on about getting buffs when they are infact flawed - wether in the sense that they are ungeared appropriately vs full mythic players or that they want to be able to kill both other classes easily in 4 seconds...

Alhunt my friend, its not that mages are weak, its maybe your gear :/ I have crap gear and I accept that fact and therefore dont complain when I get killed by somebody better geared because I know that they have an advantage over gear. I've had to gear up with mythics 3 times which cost me 50m easily, and thats the reason I have just mythic helm and armor now.

5 buffs on mages? Thats more buffs than the rogue has ever gotten (significant buffs) since pvp started. It would be silly to implement even 2 of those as your and my definition of balanced is when yours or my class is OP.

Lets just say that in a fair 5v5 all classes are balanced, because in fact they are balanced, try a 5v5 with two warriors, two/one mage and two/one rogue and you'll see my point.


Now lets just stop with all this :)

Well.. These are coming from rogue's point of views.. Pretty invalid to me.

[Andrew Ouye]

I agree. I am warrior, but I really do think that mages are way underpowered. I feel like a bully at times, because they literally can't do anything about it except leave the room.

[Bless]

Buff this, enhance those, buff that, add more of these, give us that.

The only buffs i would give to a mage are the arcane staff buff and slight reducement of the other 2 classes stun invulnerability.

Stop.


Exactly. When rogues stop asking for buffs and nerfs, mages somewhat feel the need to go on and on about getting buffs when they are infact flawed - wether in the sense that they are ungeared appropriately vs full mythic players or that they want to be able to kill both other classes easily in 4 seconds...

Alhunt my friend, its not that mages are weak, its maybe your gear :/ I have crap gear and I accept that fact and therefore dont complain when I get killed by somebody better geared because I know that they have an advantage over gear. I've had to gear up with mythics 3 times which cost me 50m easily, and thats the reason I have just mythic helm and armor now.

5 buffs on mages? Thats more buffs than the rogue has ever gotten (significant buffs) since pvp started. It would be silly to implement even 2 of those as your and my definition of balanced is when yours or my class is OP.

Lets just say that in a fair 5v5 all classes are balanced, because in fact they are balanced, try a 5v5 with two warriors, two/one mage and two/one rogue and you'll see my point.


Now lets just stop with all this :)

Well.. These are coming from rogue's point of views.. Pretty invalid to me. how are they invalid..? You just make bold statements opposing rogues when you have no evidence or reasoning, so stop being a hippocrit and learn to debate, or atleast say why..

[Instanthumor]

how are they invalid..? You just make bold statements opposing rogues when you have no evidence or reasoning, so stop being a hippocrit and learn to debate, or atleast say why..

Well, I thought there was no need for an explanation. It's pretty obvious to me.

[Bless]

how are they invalid..? You just make bold statements opposing rogues when you have no evidence or reasoning, so stop being a hippocrit and learn to debate, or atleast say why..

Well, I thought there was no need for an explanation. It's pretty obvious to me. What is? That mages that arent geared want buffs because they can't keep up with full maxed people?

It's like:

Legendary Mage vs maul warrior = mage owned -> "We need buffs"

And what's wrong with a rogue commenting on a Mage thread? You've never played a rogue and yet you're on every Balancing thread...what's wrong with my opinions?

I swear sometimes I come in these threads just to get laughs!

[Kuragasi]

What is? That mages that arent geared want buffs because they can't keep up with full maxed people?

It's like:

Legendary Mage vs maul warrior = mage owned -> "We need buffs"

And what's wrong with a rogue commenting on a Mage thread? You've never played a rogue and yet you're on every Balancing thread...what's wrong with my opinions?

I swear sometimes I come in these threads just to get laughs!


Alhunts points have nothing to do with gear, for one he's full mythic and probably one of the best PvP mages I've seen.


Now on another note, I believe mages should be squishy, kinda is the point of being a mage however I don't believe our damage reflects what it should truly be. Mages should be the damage leader its the trade off to being squishy. Hide in the back nuke and don't get hit is the life of a mage.

[Bless]

What is? That mages that arent geared want buffs because they can't keep up with full maxed people?

It's like:

Legendary Mage vs maul warrior = mage owned -> "We need buffs"

And what's wrong with a rogue commenting on a Mage thread? You've never played a rogue and yet you're on every Balancing thread...what's wrong with my opinions?

I swear sometimes I come in these threads just to get laughs!


Alhunts points have nothing to do with gear, for one he's full mythic and probably one of the best PvP mages I've seen.


Now on another note, I believe mages should be squishy, kinda is the point of being a mage however I don't believe our damage reflects what it should truly be. Mages should be the damage leader its the trade off to being squishy. Hide in the back nuke and don't get hit is the life of a mage. It pretty much is the top damage, with curse mage is inarguably the highest dmg dealing class against mages or rogues, maybe wars.

[falmear]

If devs believe that mages are underpowered they would have done something months ago and not at end of the season....


Actually this is wrong. In the past most class changes have been near the end of the season. This is probably why you are seeing these threads now because all buffs/class/skill changes have been near the end of the season. You can go back to the announcement threads and verify this. My guess though is that any changes will be towards rogues even though they don't need any. Season 3 had changes to warriors and season 4 had changes for mages. So following this trend, one would assume rogues are next.

[Bless]

If devs believe that mages are underpowered they would have done something months ago and not at end of the season....


Actually this is wrong. In the past most class changes have been near the end of the season. This is probably why you are seeing these threads now because all buffs/class/skill changes have been near the end of the season. You can go back to the announcement threads and verify this. My guess though is that any changes will be towards rogues even though they don't need any. Season 3 had changes to warriors and season 4 had changes for mages. So following this trend, one would assume rogues are next. Thanks for the clarification falm!

I still think they should do the balancing at start of each season so all bugs etc can be fixed instead of us waiting a long time whilst they work on expansiin

[Striderevil]

I agree to all accept Ice. ice has slow and freeze. Though slow is present Freeze should be as well instead of stun. Its kinda the same thing anyways. Also would help by bypass their stun 7 sec invulnerability like panic.

[Nesox]

I would be fine with armour/health that makes us more than a one/two combo without our shield up, and a heal that actually heals fully. Either way damage needs to go way up to make up for being so easy to kill; or Health/armour needs a buff to help keep us alive longer at a lesser damage rate; or stuns need to return and we rely on stun locks to stay alive. The skills are pretty good as is if I only lived long enough to use them.

[Jig]

I would be fine with armour/health that makes us more than a one/two combo without our shield up, and a heal that actually heals fully. Either way damage needs to go way up to make up for being so easy to kill; or Health/armour needs a buff to help keep us alive longer at a lesser damage rate; or stuns need to return and we rely on stun locks to stay alive. The skills are pretty good as is if I only lived long enough to use them.

I agree on this, Heal skill needs to charge faster, and give wayyyy more health, well if we are to give mages more health then give the heal skill much more healing. I'm a mage player, in all games, in pl, they made int mage crappy, just as they release 36 now they make mages crappy in this game.. y u hate wizzies so much sts!

[Alhuntrazeck]

Exactly. When rogues stop asking for buffs and nerfs, mages somewhat feel the need to go on and on about getting buffs when they are infact flawed - wether in the sense that they are ungeared appropriately vs full mythic players or that they want to be able to kill both other classes easily in 4 seconds...

Alhunt my friend, its not that mages are weak, its maybe your gear :/ I have crap gear and I accept that fact and therefore dont complain when I get killed by somebody better geared because I know that they have an advantage over gear. I've had to gear up with mythics 3 times which cost me 50m easily, and thats the reason I have just mythic helm and armor now.

5 buffs on mages? Thats more buffs than the rogue has ever gotten (significant buffs) since pvp started. It would be silly to implement even 2 of those as your and my definition of balanced is when yours or my class is OP.

Lets just say that in a fair 5v5 all classes are balanced, because in fact they are balanced, try a 5v5 with two warriors, two/one mage and two/one rogue and you'll see my point.


Now lets just stop with all this :)

I get your point. However, the armor buff upgrade on Lifegiver benefits not just the mage but his party members - wouldn't that be a great upgrade to have?

Just FYI I know I'm not the best mage, I know I can never get gear some people have but by the end of the day its all the same; mages are (usually) the first to die in a 5v5. An armor boost would work marvels - our armor is laughable at this stage. Buffing it would just prevent us from being 1 hit as often, it wouldn't significantly tip the scales towards mages IMHO.

The reason why rogues haven't got many buffs is, IMO, they were already very strong to begin with. But mages were nerfed to the point of them being pretty much useless.

Half of my suggestions don't need to b implemented. Just the armor buff (either in heals upgrade or base stats) and possibly an arcane staff buff would be good because lets be frank, an arcane staff is
pretty much nothing but a pretty stick with a purple Tinkerbell floating around you.

Peace :)

[Limsi]

For the love of the game, there's no such thing as one hit skill from aimed shot unless the one on the receiving end is totally under-geared.

@Alhunt: I do agree on the buffing of the mage's heal. I believe that they should be the one with the best heal in game which is a compensation to their low armor. Also a little boost on armor would be a good way to buff them up!

[Bless]

For the love of the game, there's no such thing as one hit skill from aimed shot unless the one on the receiving end is totally under-geared.

@Alhunt: I do agree on the buffing of the mage's heal. I believe that they should be the one with the best heal in game which is a compensation to their low armor. Also a little boost on armor would be a good way to buff them up! Yep. No one hits.

[Zeus]

Yep. No one hits.

Not true.

I've one hit a full arcane staff Mage more than a few times.

Of course, the rarity of that is so extreme it only happens 1-2 times a day.

However, all rogue skills hit so hard and fast that even if aimed shot doesn't get you, the Nox and pierce surely will.

[Bless]

Yep. No one hits.

Not true.

I've one hit a full arcane staff Mage more than a few times.

Of course, the rarity of that is so extreme it only happens 1-2 times a day.

However, all rogue skills hit so hard and fast that even if aimed shot doesn't get you, the Nox and pierce surely will. I find it hard to one hit other mythic mages because of gear differences but even still, one hits are rare in 5v5 situations or when fighting in teams

[Itoopeo]

If u dont like AL, then come to PL. Im waiting for u here.

[Madnex]

Not true.

I've one hit a full arcane staff Mage more than a few times.

Of course, the rarity of that is so extreme it only happens 1-2 times a day.

However, all rogue skills hit so hard and fast that even if aimed shot doesn't get you, the Nox and pierce surely will.
Exactly, oneshots do exist.

We tested this with bless, non full mythic rogue build managed to get a 3k Aimed Shot crit on my full mythic sorc 2/5 times. Non arcane sorcs have a maximum of 3000-3300 HP. So it's very probable to oneshot them with a bit of luck.

And even if in the majority of occassions it leaves the victim with 10-15% left, no self respecting rogue fires one AS and runs away. There will be a combo of either nox or pierce to finish it off in an instant. Same goes for other undergeared (or not) rogues as well.

[Alhuntrazeck]

For the love of the game, there's no such thing as one hit skill from aimed shot unless the one on the receiving end is totally under-geared.

@Alhunt: I do agree on the buffing of the mage's heal. I believe that they should be the one with the best heal in game which is a compensation to their low armor. Also a little boost on armor would be a good way to buff them up!

They do exist as stated above. I got predator to test on me a while ago and 5/10 times he 1 hit me. There IS a chance seeing aimed shots can easily crit 3k.

[Jig]

Aimed shot crits, your screwed ;)

[Zeus]

They do exist as stated above. I got predator to test on me a while ago and 5/10 times he 1 hit me. There IS a chance seeing aimed shots can easily crit 3k.

Your HP IS a bit low, Al. :D

However, if we are going up against an equally geared opponent, the one shot can happen a few times a day.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Your HP IS a bit low, Al. :D

However, if we are going up against an equally geared opponent, the one shot can happen a few times a day.

I think its just fine, 3.2k! :)

[Zeus]

I think its just fine, 3.2k! :)

I hate to break it to you, Al, but that is pretty low. :/

You're comparing your gear to somebody who is fully geared up. While one hits do happen, they are very rare provided that each player is equally geared up. In your case, it's not that damage is too high but your gear/pet may be insufficient.

[moot]

I hate to break it to you, Al, but that is pretty low. :/

You're comparing your gear to somebody who is fully geared up. While one hits do happen, they are very rare provided that each player is equally geared up. In your case, it's not that damage is too high but your gear/pet may be insufficient.

Let's pretend his health are low, so they crit 3.2k then if a mage with the 'appropriate gear' survive and heal once, and in 2 sec later, boom, the rogue fires 1 more aim shot and the mage dead.

Mage can't even one shot with 4 attack skill combo (lightning, fire,ice,clock).

[will0]

Let's pretend his health are low, so they crit 3.2k then if a mage with the 'appropriate gear' survive and heal once, and in 2 sec later, boom, the rogue fires 1 more aim shot and the mage dead.

Mage can't even one shot with 4 attack skill combo (lightning, fire,ice,clock).

Adding to that, all our skills needs to be "charge" to stun or % to stun ... i guess most people knows it already

[Zeus]

Let's pretend his health are low, so they crit 3.2k then if a mage with the 'appropriate gear' survive and heal once, and in 2 sec later, boom, the rogue fires 1 more aim shot and the mage dead.

Mage can't even one shot with 4 attack skill combo (lightning, fire,ice,clock).

I'm not denying that changes to mages must be made. However, I am defining the difference between a one shot and a case of being outclassed gear-wise. In Alhuntrazeck's case, his testing cannot be considered proper because he's testing himself, who is not on equal standing, against a rogue who is maxed out. That alone is a huge difference in itself.

If you want to suggest something, you have to be very exact about it. Exaggeration and other variables must be made aware, which is what I am doing.

[Jig]

I'm pretty sure I have 3.1-3.2k health and I dont have any mythics, i dont have the best legendary! Ribbit is a great pet, to add health and a lot of crit

[Bless]

Let's pretend his health are low, so they crit 3.2k then if a mage with the 'appropriate gear' survive and heal once, and in 2 sec later, boom, the rogue fires 1 more aim shot and the mage dead.

Mage can't even one shot with 4 attack skill combo (lightning, fire,ice,clock).

Adding to that, all our skills needs to be "charge" to stun or % to stun ... i guess most people knows it already atleast u have a stun...

Rogues are missin out on one of their most important stats: Dodge...

[Nagin]

I'm pretty sure I have 3.1-3.2k health and I dont have any mythics, i dont have the best legendary! Ribbit is a great pet, to add health and a lot of crit

Without mythics mage is 2.5k health

[Jig]

Without mythics mage is 2.5k health

I have 3k i think, 3k+ .. so what?

EDIT: Unless your referring to having no pet equipted, I still get 2.8k+ so yeah.

[Alhuntrazeck]

I'm not denying that changes to mages must be made. However, I am defining the difference between a one shot and a case of being outclassed gear-wise. In Alhuntrazeck's case, his testing cannot be considered proper because he's testing himself, who is not on equal standing, against a rogue who is maxed out. That alone is a huge difference in itself.

If you want to suggest something, you have to be very exact about it. Exaggeration and other variables must be made aware, which is what I am doing.
That is true. I'll try to get a similarly geared rogue to test on me.


atleast u have a stun...

Rogues are missin out on one of their most important stats: Dodge...

Rogues have stuns too. I fought this rogue named Sixtycent and he killed me 9/10 times cuz he stunlocked with charged bow and slag...

[will0]

That is true. I'll try to get a similarly geared rogue to test on me.


Rogues have stuns too. I fought this rogue named Sixtycent and he killed me 9/10 times cuz he stunlocked with charged bow and slag...

mythic bows "snares" which means "stun" ~ "freeze" or equivalent .. 60000

[Alhuntrazeck]

I'm not denying that changes to mages must be made. However, I am defining the difference between a one shot and a case of being outclassed gear-wise. In Alhuntrazeck's case, his testing cannot be considered proper because he's testing himself, who is not on equal standing, against a rogue who is maxed out. That alone is a huge difference in itself.

If you want to suggest something, you have to be very exact about it. Exaggeration and other variables must be made aware, which is what I am doing.
Ok, so I tested with a rogue with mythic armor and helm plus dev bow and fang ie same gear (but rogue equivalent) as me. His damage was 25 less than mine and equal Hp. We used the same pet.

We tested 1 hits with aimed shot and yes, he 1 hit me 2/5 times which is less than I expected. Apparently his damage being 374 wasn't enough. On the next test we tested aimed+box combos. On 3/5 times he killed me. Lastly we checked out a classic rogue combo and 4/5 times he killed me.

My armor without shield is too low. That's why I believe that needs a buff.


mythic bows "snares" which means "stun" ~ "freeze" or equivalent .. 60000
It was a dev bow that sixty used.

[Serancha]

All Bows stun on charged normal attack. This is not a proc but a feature of the game. Blades used to also, but I am not sure if they do anymore. Same as all warriors can stun with charged normal attack (not quite as often as rogue). Not sure about mages. Someone might want to test that, but I think it prob doesn't.

[Bless]

That is true. I'll try to get a similarly geared rogue to test on me.


Rogues have stuns too. I fought this rogue named Sixtycent and he killed me 9/10 times cuz he stunlocked with charged bow and slag...

mythic bows "snares" which means "stun" ~ "freeze" or equivalent .. 60000
Snares do nothing except slow you down. That proc is near useless imo.

Snares = slow speed, not sun or freeze...

[Madnex]

Snaring by definition means stun. Now how and if the bow procs the corresponded effect is another thing.

I believe it's the same as with time shift; snare in PvP becomes slowdown. I agree that this specific proc is nearly useless unless you play with stunlocks or get lucky with timing. Charged bow does stun though.

[Bless]

You can still move and attack so how the heck is it a stun?!

[Madnex]

If we're talking about the same thing, you're not able to move or attack, you just stay there with your head laid back like someone spiked a tennis ball on your forehead with little stars going over it.

Unless charged normal bow attack doesn't do this, the rogues that hit me with that must be practising some sort of magic.

[Serancha]

This is charged normal attack effect, NOT a bow proc. Snare = slow, Not stun. All bows stun on charged normal, unless the target is in 7 sec stun immunity.

Mythic bow proc is very rare and will show a green smoke ring like an uncharged shadow veil, if that is the effect you are getting. All this does is slow people a bit, however if you want to effectively slow people, use a gloom bow and ethyl. They are much more useful for that purpose.

The reason mythic bow is popular is not for its proc, but for its decent mana supply and high crit. Damage is little more than gloom, and proc is next to useless, so that's not what they're spending millions for.

[Madnex]

This is charged normal attack effect, NOT a bow proc. Snare = slow, Not stun. All bows stun on charged normal, unless the target is in 7 sec stun immunity.

Mythic bow proc is very rare and will show a green smoke ring like an uncharged shadow veil, if that is the effect you are getting. All this does is slow people a bit, however if you want to effectively slow people, use a gloom bow and ethyl. They are much more useful for that purpose.

The reason mythic bow is popular is not for its proc, but for its decent mana supply and high crit. Damage is little more than gloom, and proc is next to useless, so that's not what they're spending millions for.

I believe it's the same as with time shift; snare in PvP becomes slowdown. I agree that this specific proc is nearly useless unless you play with stunlocks or get lucky with timing. Charged bow does stun though.

I don't see who or what you're trying to correct there.


Thanks on the slowdown build though, might give it a try.

[Bless]

If we're talking about the same thing, you're not able to move or attack, you just stay there with your head laid back like someone spiked a tennis ball on your forehead with little stars going over it.

Unless charged normal bow attack doesn't do this, the rogues that hit me with that must be practising some sort of magic.

LOL that head laid back stun is the arcane skill of crawly, it has nothing to do with bows, dude atleast do your homework...

[Madnex]

LOL that head laid back stun is the arcane skill of crawly, it has nothing to do with bows, dude atleast do your homework...
"LOL", that's the player-being-stunned animation. It's not crawly exlusive either, genius. Who needs to do his homework again?

[Bless]

LOL that head laid back stun is the arcane skill of crawly, it has nothing to do with bows, dude atleast do your homework...
"LOL", that's the player-being-stunned animation. It's not crawly exlusive either, genius. Who needs to do his homework again? LOL mythic bows dont stun on proc, homework

[Madnex]

I believe it's the same as with time shift; snare in pvp becomes slowdown. I agree that this specific proc is nearly useless unless you play with stunlocks or get lucky with timing. Charged bow does stun though.

Unless charged normal bow attack doesn't do this, the rogues that hit me with that must be practising some sort of magic.

lol mythic bows dont stun on proc, homework

60154

[Serancha]

I don't see who or what you're trying to correct there.
.

Not everyone posts to "correct" (aka argue with) others, some posts are just meant for clarification of a point.

[Instanthumor]

clarification of a point.

It pretty much is 'correcting'.

[Serancha]

Wow people really do love trolling on this forum, don't they. Ridiculous.

[Madnex]

Not everyone posts to "correct" (aka argue with) others, some posts are just meant for clarification of a point.
Well those caps threw me off. I also have this weird feeling rogues don't even read my posts anymore; the clarification on how normal charged attack stuns and not the bow proc was already there. See quotes on above post.


This isn't trolling, it's backing up same class users and both rogues and sorcs do it. So ridiculous would go for both.

[Anarchist]

Every thread becomes a battle ground. I hope sts post a official thread clarifying they won't buff mages nor nerf rogues to stop all this talky talky.

[Instanthumor]

Every thread becomes a battle ground. I hope sts post a official thread clarifying they won't buff mages nor nerf rogues to stop all this talky talky.

They should also throw in that it is ok to use 5 or more skills, because it is totally ok.

[Bless]

clarification of a point.

It pretty much is 'correcting'. Clarification isnt correcting. Rofl. What if the person just wanted to elaborate?

[Zeus]

It pretty much is 'correcting'.

Allow me to clarify what the difference between clarification and correcting is. Also, I hope you don't mind me correcting you through use of this clarification. :)


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60210

[Jig]

Sometimes I can call sts forums my teacher..^_^

[cindersx]

Allow me to clarify what the difference between clarification and correcting is. Also, I hope you don't mind me correcting you through use of this clarification. :)


60209

60210

Lol, nice reply.

Anyways, why does the mage need a buff so badly? Oh yeah, it doesn't! As I said in the Mages thread, just use the right skills and you will own. And I have to say no to turning the ice skill into a skill that stuns. If that happens, it seems like people would be getting stunlocked.

I mean seriously, why does the mage need a buff so badly? These 'buff mage' threads are starting to make no sense. Mages are meant to be like that. Have you ever seen a game that has mages with a lot of armor? Well of course not. That would just make the game even more unbalanced.

Here's the solution to this. Try using a different class. Instead of making a ton of threads about this. Is it really that hard to find a simple solution?

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[Instanthumor]

Lol, nice reply.

Anyways, why does the mage need a buff so badly? Oh yeah, it doesn't! As I said in the Mages thread, just use the right skills and you will own. And I have to say no to turning the ice skill into a skill that stuns. If that happens, it seems like people would be getting stunlocked.

I mean seriously, why does the mage need a buff so badly? These 'buff mage' threads are starting to make no sense. Mages are meant to be like that. Have you ever seen a game that has mages with a lot of armor? Well of course not. That would just make the game even more unbalanced.

Here's the solution to this. Try using a different class. Instead of making a ton of threads about this. Is it really that hard to find a simple solution?
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You always say 'use the right skills'. Question, would you mind telling us what the 'best skill' are? Since you seem to know so much about the topic. Next, no one said to buff the mage's armor by a lot. We are asking for a slight buff because we are too underpowered compared to the other classes at the moment. This game is already unbalanced, I really do not know what you are talking about. Now you are telling everyone to stop playing mage and play a different class... You sure this won't have a huge impact in PvP? I think it will. Why don't you tell your fellow rogues to stop making those threads and complaining about the use of five skills? Go figure.

[cindersx]

You always say 'use the right skills'. Question, would you mind telling us what the 'best skill' are? Since you seem to know so much about the topic. Next, no one said to buff the mage's armor by a lot. We are asking for a slight buff because we are too underpowered compared to the other classes at the moment. This game is already unbalanced, I really do not know what you are talking about. Now you are telling everyone to stop playing mage and play a different class... You sure this won't have a huge impact in PvP? I think it will. Why don't you tell your fellow rogues to stop making those threads and complaining about the use of five skills? Go figure.

Well when I say use the right skills, I mean try out different builds and see which one works for you. Sorry about the armor buff by a lot. Try to not to get that wrong if it bugs you so much. Well not everyone would leave the mage. As said in other threads, this game is based off of pve, not pvp. If they tried to balance it in pvp, pve would be ruined. So what's the point of fixing pvp?



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[Madnex]

Here's the solution to this. Try using a different class. Instead of making a ton of threads about this. Is it really that hard to find a simple solution?
Hahaha now that's a really effective solution eh? Whenever you see something's not right, you know, just leave it as it is and try something else. Some people..

We're not requesting "a lot of armor", we're requesting changes to be made to balance out the ineffectiveness of the sorcerer's class main element; stun/root skills. Considering the other two classes kept theirs (massive damage absorption, extreme critical hits).


Edit:

And to answer the second comment, changes can be made to PvP only. It's already been done (eg. lowering the healing/damage output for every class in PvP). No one talked about global changes.

[cindersx]

Hahaha now that's a really effective solution eh? Whenever you see something's not right, you know, just leave it as it is and try something else. Some people..

We're not requesting "a lot of armor", we're requesting changes to be made to balance out the ineffectiveness of the sorcerer's class main element; stun/root skills. Considering the other two classes kept theirs (massive damage absorption, extreme critical hits).

Well what I said was just a suggestion.

How exactly is a sorcerer's stun ineffective?

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[Zeus]

Well what I said was just a suggestion.

How exactly is a sorcerer's stun ineffective?

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There's a stun immunity in place to prevent stun locks. A sorcerer cannot stun again with his skills for a period of 7 seconds once he has stunned once.

[cindersx]

There's a stun immunity in place to prevent stun locks. A sorcerer cannot stun again with his skills for a period of 7 seconds once he has stunned once.

Mmk.

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[sevenpain]

Can a pro mage with Max gear Beat A Warrior With Max Gear In Pvp?
I would like to know what is the percentage roughly speaking from your own experience

[Instanthumor]

Can a pro mage with Max gear Beat A Warrior With Max Gear In Pvp?
I would like to know what is the percentage roughly speaking from your own experience

0%. The best you could do is leave the game.

[Zeus]

0%. The best you could do is leave the game.

Yup, this post says it all.

While the warrior class should have an advantage on the sorcerer class in terms of the combat triangle, the chance for an equally geared mage should not be 0%. I would expect it be somewhere around a 3:1 ratio, that is, for every 3 kills a warrior gets on a mage, a sorcerer should be able to obtain 1 kill. Note, that is only a general guideline.

However, switch it around for a sorcerer vs. a rogue, the same ratio should apply. For every 3 kills a sorcerer gets on a rogue, a rogue should be able to get one kill on a sorcerer.

This is balance, where the combat triangle has checks and balances.

Right now, the checks and balances are very very skewed in favor of warriors.

[Zylx]

Considering that im gonna make my mage my main after it caps, i'd like it to not be an underdog. I agree on all these idears. +69

Edit: Just realized this is the 69th post ;).

[Hoardseeker]

Reduce the proc and damage for arcane maul(Arcane maul has damage NEAREST to staff!)&make no crit in PvP for rogue & Problem solved!

[Madnex]

Yup, this post says it all.

While the warrior class should have an advantage on the sorcerer class in terms of the combat triangle, the chance for an equally geared mage should not be 0%. I would expect it be somewhere around a 3:1 ratio, that is, for every 3 kills a warrior gets on a mage, a sorcerer should be able to obtain 1 kill. Note, that is only a general guideline.

However, switch it around for a sorcerer vs. a rogue, the same ratio should apply. For every 3 kills a sorcerer gets on a rogue, a rogue should be able to get one kill on a sorcerer.

This is balance, where the combat triangle has checks and balances.

Right now, the checks and balances are very very skewed in favor of warriors.
The suggestion for warriors to get their invulnerability removed from horn in the same way roots have been removed for sorcerers --meaning in PvP only-- is starting to appeal to me more and more. Thoughts?

[Alhuntrazeck]

The suggestion for warriors to get their invulnerability removed from horn in the same way roots have been removed for sorcerers --meaning in PvP only-- is starting to appeal to me more and more. Thoughts?

Thing is, that would make sense in 1v1s but not in proper 5v5s. I cant count how many times that miraculous green shield has pulled my blue butt across the line between survival and annihilation. Nerfing that is out of question imo. What I do think would make sense is to add stun immunities to procs so warriors cant stack skyward smash and maul proc.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Lol, nice reply.

Anyways, why does the mage need a buff so badly? Oh yeah, it doesn't! As I said in the Mages thread, just use the right skills and you will own. And I have to say no to turning the ice skill into a skill that stuns. If that happens, it seems like people would be getting stunlocked.

I mean seriously, why does the mage need a buff so badly? These 'buff mage' threads are starting to make no sense. Mages are meant to be like that. Have you ever seen a game that has mages with a lot of armor? Well of course not. That would just make the game even more unbalanced.

Here's the solution to this. Try using a different class. Instead of making a ton of threads about this. Is it really that hard to find a simple solution?

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Okay, so according to you using the right skills will make you 'own'. Well then, here's a challenge for you: go into PvP and fight any warrior with Tarloks and above alone. Then come back and post, thank you.

Ice being made a stun kill wouldn't in any way create stublocks because there are 7 seconds of invulnerability. So even if you stack fb n slag, there's still 3 seconds before stun immunity wears off.

Just look at the difference between arcane staff aand maul. Then you'll realize why mages' arcane staff should be buffed :)

I'm not asking for a lot of armor. None of us want mages to be tanks. However a competitive buff in the mages' base stats should work miracles.

Ure basically telling me to quit my mage and go play a rogue. That is just...crazy. I like playing a mage so why the heck would I switch to rogue just because mages need a buff...?

[cindersx]

Okay, so according to you using the right skills will make you 'own'. Well then, here's a challenge for you: go into PvP and fight any warrior with Tarloks and above alone. Then come back and post, thank you.

Ice being made a stun kill wouldn't in any way create stublocks because there are 7 seconds of invulnerability. So even if you stack fb n slag, there's still 3 seconds before stun immunity wears off.

Just look at the difference between arcane staff aand maul. Then you'll realize why mages' arcane staff should be buffed :)

I'm not asking for a lot of armor. None of us want mages to be tanks. However a competitive buff in the mages' base stats should work miracles.

Ure basically telling me to quit my mage and go play a rogue. That is just...crazy. I like playing a mage so why the heck would I switch to rogue just because mages need a buff...?

Ok.. cool? And by the way, it's just a suggestion. You don't have to do it. No one is forcing you, right?

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[Madnex]

I don't think your blue butt (or mine either) would be on the line if the opposition didn't have horn.


Truth is, the majority of the warriors only heal when their health is low and pay no attention the health points of their team members anyway.

[Alhuntrazeck]

I don't think your blue butt (or mine either) would be on the line if the opposition didn't have horn.


Truth is, the majority of the warriors only heal when their health is low and pay no attention the health points of their team members anyway.

True. However there have been plenty of times I've been about to die vs a team without a tank/with their tanks heal on Cd...

Agree with par. 2. I've only met, say, 10 tanks out of AL's entire warrior population who control team support perfectly. (Hi pizzasalad)

P.S: The blue butt was a lie. Mages have pink butts. True story.

[Zeus]

Thing is, that would make sense in 1v1s but not in proper 5v5s. I cant count how many times that miraculous green shield has pulled my blue butt across the line between survival and annihilation. Nerfing that is out of question imo. What I do think would make sense is to add stun immunities to procs so warriors cant stack skyward smash and maul proc.

Not only that, but cripple immunities as well. Right now, a warrior can constantly keep both a rogue and mage from critting if he uses the right build.

[phillyr]

P.S: The blue butt was a lie. Mages have pink butts. True story.

Lol

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[Striderevil]

Nothing in war or rogues needs to be nerfed. All thats needed is skill like root and freeze to work so that DoT damage of mage has chance to work. Also increase DoT damage of mage so that if war puts horn of renew then mages with 2 -3 attack skills time shift, ice and or fb should be able to counter heal rate. Then everything will be balanced. Right now mage DoT is useless. So mage is a rogue with no dodge, nerfed armor, no crit. and no skill for single shot damage. Mages excel in pve because of Dot damage and yet we are not allowed to use these effects in pvp.

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[Serancha]

There's a stun immunity in place to prevent stun locks. A sorcerer cannot stun again with his skills for a period of 7 seconds once he has stunned once.

I think he can stun, he just can't stun the same person again for 7 seconds.

However, panic does not follow stun immunity, correct? Skill stun + Pet panic used with proper timing can lock an opponent down for most of those 7 seconds. Just an addition to that comment - food for thought.


For clarification AND correction on a couple of things, here's some fun facts.

As per the AL glossary of terms and acronyms (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?105825-AL-Glossary-of-Terms-and-Acronyms), here are the definitions as used in this game. As you can see, Snare is NOT a stun.

Root - Rooting a Mob holds it in place - it cannot move if it's been rooted. Handy for solo kiting mages and crowd control.

Snare - Snaring a Mob makes it slower - slightly less effective than root, however still an effective means of kiting and crowd control.

Stun - A Stunned Mob does not move, nor can they attack or cast spells - a highly effective method of crowd control, although typically effects don't last as long as Root or Snare.


Samhayne announced (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?83021-Arcane-Legends-Development-PvP-Capture-the-Flag-amp-Next-Expansion/page2) when PVP was about to be launched, these work a bit different in pvp than the skill descriptions imply. Root was never taken out, it was never included in PVP in the first place.:


....Skills won't function the same as they do in a PvE map.

For example, all roots become snares. Stuns, knockdowns, etc. have lesser duration so they are not overpowered. Damage and heal values are also tweaked for balance....


Back to the point, mage squishiness is a global issue, not just a pvp one..

I have a 36 mage (legendary), and to get over 1K armor while retaining decent hp and damage, takes pretty serious creativity and much time spent scouring the CS. I have always loved the bonus/penalty setup STS has for gear, where if you want one stat boosted, it's going to cost you somewhere else. It's all about balance - for other classes. For mages now it's a constant struggle.

Even with an open mind and creative shopping / gemming, it boils down to the fact that there's just not enough substance to mage armor to allow non-maxed mages much in the way of independence. Unless something changes, this will eventually lead to mages getting invited to less and less runs, 'cause who wants to run with a dead guy?

[Madnex]

1. Allow ice to root in PvP.
2. Permafreeze noobs with third upgrade.
3. Win.


On a more serious note, agreed on everything above except sorc squishiness is a global issue. It's not.

Even on the hardest PvE elite maps, the ability to effectively keep the enemy rooted and stunned practically all the time in distance is what explains the low armor/HP.


The thing is that no mob has any skills that will allow it to break out of a stun or root. Some have stun immunity to skills but that's as far as it goes. PvP enemies not only have the intelligence to walk out/avoid things like time shift, they are equipped with skills that allow them to jump/dash away in seconds.

Sorc armor/HP is fine for PvE but not for PvP.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

Nothing in war or rogues needs to be nerfed. All thats needed is skill like root and freeze to work so that DoT damage of mage has chance to work. Also increase DoT damage of mage so that if war puts horn of renew then mages with 2 -3 attack skills time shift, ice and or fb should be able to counter heal rate. Then everything will be balanced. Right now mage DoT is useless. So mage is a rogue with no dodge, nerfed armor, no crit. and no skill for single shot damage. Mages excel in pve because of Dot damage and yet we are not allowed to use these effects in pvp.

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Its true. Mages DoT is weak. I belive rogues DoT with nox bolt is far more powerful than fire or ice. 0.o

[Jig]

I just tried PvP again, and man I can seriously not kill a thing! I just blew 20 plat for respects, I seriously cant just keep respecting trying to figure out crap, even though mages are weak I shouldn't even bother. Sts really don't like mages do they, they made mages utterly crap in Pocket Legends, and now they make them crap here. Better be better at 41 other whys I'm thinking of quitting the darn game, won't waste my time with un-balanced PvP.

Or, be an absolute million air and buy the best items for Mages, now it's probably not as unfair :/ if its going to be like that..

[Nesox]

I started playing PvP because PvE was dull. Now since crafting was introduced I don't even bother to PvP anymore as. I used to play for hours a day and now I haven't even turned it on in over a week.

While the details of what needs to be buffed/nerfed can be debated to no end the devs are still overlooking the obvious. In order for the mage>rogue>warrior>mage argument to be valid the kd ratios of each matchup must be equal. Since a fully geared mage still has 0.01% against a warrior, mages should dominate rogues by the same amount, and so on. This is not even close to the case. Mages should not need to be full mythic or sport 5 skills just to have a chance to be competitive.