Scam Problems? Some Tips for Sts.

[Anarchist]

Just like in real life some people think they are wiser than others, they think they can do whatever they want and go free with it. In real life this actually sometimes works cause the influence of some people gives them the ability to tip justice in their favour. Justice can be influenced by few things:
money.
power.
fame.

AL is a miniworld similar to the real one only that the people that amministrate justice here (Sts, devs, mods ecc) can't be influenced by the players; not even the richest player nor the most popular nor the strongest can tip AL Justice in their favour.

So why isn't AL a utopic perfect model for the real world? Why are there still scammers in a world that should pressumingly have a perfect justice system?

Simple

Even though AL justice is uncorruptable, it is weak.


It is not that they aren't any sanctions if a player break the ToS, the problem is that who even reads the Tos?

Most players log and play the game without bothering themselves at all about rules, ban or the behaviour they should have when playing.
This makes a potencial scammer or dummy farmer see justice far away, very very very far away.



Now i am not a lawyer but reading the RULES OF CONDUCT (http://support.spacetimestudios.com/customer/portal/articles/961570-rules-of-conduct) it is clearly stated that:

"The following actions are also considered to be a violation of our Rules of Conduct ( ergo give a temporal or permaban):

- Intentionally deceiving or “scamming” another player out of in-game currency or items.
- Exploiting any bug found in a Spacetime Studios game."

Exploiting a bug is dummy farming and it is against the rules, so why do i see players happily farming their dummies like it is the most innocent thing to do, like they are picking flowers?
Intentionally deceiving or scamming is against the rules so why do i see scammers laughing in the face of their victims?

(I will pick only this two as examples to show everyone how the idea of justice is so far from a random player.)




SOME IDEAS FOR GIVING INGAME JUSTICE MORE POWER
How do we give Justice more power? By giving her a menacing look, by letting her stay right behind the potencial scammer back with a wielded hammer.

1) THE BLACK LIST:

After following regular investigations and procedures if PlayerX is found guilty of breaking the Tos his name should be written on a Blacklist thread.
- Only Mods can update the specific thread meant for the blacklist.
- I don't think if you are caught scamming the first time you get a permaban but a temporary ban ,so after the temporary ban is over the name of the player is removed from the list.

Now for resolving scammers changing their name right after being caught scamming or dummy farming or cheating ecc comes point 2.



2) ADD MORE CONTROL TO NAME CHANGING:

The current name changing system is something absurd that i don't comprehend. It's a 100% scam boosting system.
Sts give it a sheild, if PlayerX want's to change his name he will have to send a email to the support group so they can see if PlayerX is a genuine person or has a opened or closed scam issue in his history record.

If there is a opened scam issue and PlayerX is found guilty in that case StS will not allow him to change his name.
If PlayerX already has a closed scam issue on his record then he can't change his name.

I see no issue with the 30plat policy.


CONSEQUENCES
IMHO this will prevent people scamming, changing their name and repeating the procedure to their heart content.
It will also give players a list of potencial cheaters to watch out for.
Just like in reality if you are caught stealing the police doesn't hide your name and protect you like a golden egg but pubblicly annouce it to the society, the Blacklist will drastically bring down the number of scams cause unlike before a potencial scammer will think twice if he is ready to compromise his gameplay with a dirty record.



StS i know this might cost extra work on cross checkings and investigations but please give a sheild to our beloved game, she is constanly exploited and harrassed by cheaters and scammers.

[xXz21]

i have an idea to prevent scammers..

STS can add when u check people profile a ''reputation'' how this can work? listen

When u make a trade with X person this person can put u a ''feedback'' in ur profile with a short comment maybe with something like +rep good trader trustable guy. and u can put a positive or negative in this feedback.

u can see how positive and negative feedback X guy have on he's profile. example: 20+ positive and -2 negative. it should be good for prevent a scam before trade.

[Anarchist]

i have an idea to prevent scammers..

STS can add when u check people profile a ''reputation'' how this can work? listen

When u make a trade with X person this person can put u a ''feedback'' in ur profile with a short comment maybe with something like +rep good trader trustable guy. and u can put a positive or negative in this feedback.

u can see how positive and negative feedback X guy have on he's profile. example: 20+ positive and -2 negative. it should be good for prevent a scam before trade.

It's will get exploited in 3miliseconds.

[xXz21]

It's will get exploited in 3miliseconds.

exploited why? obviusly sts can add a security to do it. is not only to say add this.

only 1 feedback per trade. not work with same ip accounts :)

or can be in forum!

[Temarichan]

Best Solution!








Just don't get scammed :P don't trust anyone, don't fall for suspicious activities, don't do anything.
"Easier said then done, Tema!" ~ it's easier done then said.

[Fauksuras]

These codes of conduct are not absolute when they are open to context and degree of seriousness.

For example when crafting came about and Archons were dropping easily a lot of people farmed them.
How would you categorize this? In the literal sense it was bug exploitation but on the other side it was a mistake by STS and some capitalized on it.

Another more recent example the Tarlok Portals, who can say honestly they did not use on the "tolls" in game? If they were to ban for that bug I believe game would be empty and believe me more than a share of people got veeeeery rich via that bug and others that emerged.


About scammers I have personally submitted 2 very lengthy and detailed reports in less than a month on different people, with screenshots and basically them admitting what they were doing (by asking them in game to detail what we were doing). I don't know what has happened to those people.

Perhaps STS should consider releasing a monthly list of banned scammers? Or players in general and the reason? Show people that there ARE repercussions and not just a myth?

[Spyce]

It's really simple. DON'T TRUST ANYONE.

[Sariita]

It's really simple. DON'T TRUST ANYONE.
I do trust some people Lol Hopefully I know those people won't run away with my things xD

[Spyce]

I do trust some people Lol Hopefully I know those people won't run away with my things xD

You never know..
Even my real life friend took my gear :(
Beat him up the next day though!

[Sariita]

You never know..
Even my real life friend took my gear :(
Beat him up the next day though!
Really? o.o

[Commanderkeen]

It's really simple. DON'T TRUST ANYONE.

This. It's so simple to not be scammed. Double check trade windows, check prices of items before selling/buying, never give an item your not willing to lose, oh and just a little of common sense.

There's no need for this "Blacklist" and StS employees working even more. Let's think of this if StS does try this system they will have to pull at least two people off of making and developing six games with only thirty five employees total in the company. This will bring all games to maybe one or two new expansions every year. Doesn't sound like fun to me.

[Spyce]

Really? o.o

I didn't beat him up, lmfao.
He's my best friend..

[Zylx]

Just don't get scammed :P don't trust anyone, don't fall for suspicious activities, don't do anything.

Couldnt have said it better. And! There is a pretty sizeable flaw in the part about the blacklist.. Say PlayerX scams PlayerZ. The name "PlayerX" gets put on the blacklist. After that, the person behind PlayerX deletes his character, releasing the name (therefore sneaking past the name change approbation). So along comes a newcomer...They create an account and they're like "Omg this game looks cool". They create a character, and decide to name it PlayerX, not knowing before-hand that the name is on the blacklist. So after a while of playing, someone says "hey! Your a scammer!!". STS isnt going to take the time to organize a list and continually update it after every single change. They're too busy creating content and dealing with support issues.

And just for the record: if PlayerX Scams PlayerZ, and quickly changes his name to PlayerY after the scam, STS can still trace the name to the account and apply the necessary consequential action. All transactions between the server and an account are recorded and stored in case of any issues for verification (this is proven by the plat-use history in your account info). It's just an added bonus that it can be used to apprehend a scammer. So even if a player changes his name, STS will still be able to trace the name to the account and apply the appropriate action

[Anarchist]

Couldnt have said it better. And! There is a pretty sizeable flaw in the part about the blacklist.. Say PlayerX scams PlayerZ. The name "PlayerX" gets put on the blacklist. After that, the person behind PlayerX deletes his character, releasing the name (therefore sneaking past the name change approbation). So along comes a newcomer...They create an account and they're like "Omg this game looks cool". They create a character, and decide to name it PlayerX, not knowing before-hand that the name is on the blacklist. So after a while of playing, someone says "hey! Your a scammer!!". STS isnt going to take the time to organize a list and continually update it after every single change. They're too busy creating content and dealing with support issues.

that is why your name gets deleted after your ban is over. if it is a temporal ban it will get deleted after some time, if it is a permaban it will stay there forever
FYI Till when you are banned you can't access your toon ergo you can't delete it

And just for the record: if PlayerX Scams PlayerZ, and quickly changes his name to PlayerY after the scam, STS can still trace the name to the account and apply the necessary consequential action. All transactions between the server and an account are recorded and stored in case of any issues for verification (this is proven by the plat-use history in your account info). It's just an added bonus that it can be used to apprehend a scammer. So even if a player changes his name, STS will still be able to trace the name to the account and apply the appropriate action


I know that records are kept but the system seems so scarn without protections whatsoever, it also gives a cheater a sort of temporal protection, it is like a hiding place where they can fastly run and cancel traces of their bad conduct in this lass of time with a clean record they can strike again, slowing the process of name changing will break that sheild

Commander: you only have to update a list it is not that difficult, and do crosscheckings lets say once a week, it is definately not a overpowered task.

My reflections are just a way of dropping the percentage of scamming in game if you have one that is not"don't trust anybody" please say it.

[Milan Lame Man]

I would love to hear from STS if all chat is logged or not. I.e. if it is enough to say "This person tried to sell plat to me" and they can check the logs for themselves, or I have to describe it in more detail and they only act if there are many reports of the same player.

Also I believe a "reputation" might in fact work. The ability to only vote for a person you've already traded with, sounds like a good countermeasure to downvoting someone by a guild of sheep. Obviously there's no need for positive votes since nobody would bother giving them, so it would be "scams/trades ratio".
It should be possible to change the vote afterwards. This happened to me:
Me: buy glacial 1k
Player: sell glacial 1.5k
Me: It's 1.2k in auc
Player: Trade
Me: put 1k, player puts glacial, confirm and accept
Me: (cool)
Player: 200
Me: (huh). Trade, give 200

In any case I would totally prefer an automated solution over investigation, anytime. Unless EliteFamily volunteers 3 hours a day to read through the logs, or buy enough plat every day to pay for someone else.
And finally, dummy farming is not a scam or bug exploit. How would you classify running Jarl then?

[Anarchist]

I would love to hear from STS if all chat is logged or not. I.e. if it is enough to say "This person tried to sell plat to me" and they can check the logs for themselves, or I have to describe it in more detail and they only act if there are many reports of the same player.

Also I believe a "reputation" might in fact work. The ability to only vote for a person you've already traded with, sounds like a good countermeasure to downvoting someone by a guild of sheep. Obviously there's no need for positive votes since nobody would bother giving them, so it would be "scams/trades ratio".
It should be possible to change the vote afterwards. This happened to me:
Me: buy glacial 1k
Player: sell glacial 1.5k
Me: It's 1.2k in auc
Player: Trade
Me: put 1k, player puts glacial, confirm and accept
Me: (cool)
Player: 200
Me: (huh). Trade, give 200
Good idea but at deeper inspection it doesn't solve the problem. For example how many negative points do you need to consider someone a scammer?
What if i give you negative feedback cuz i dont like you?


In any case I would totally prefer an automated solution over investigation, anytime. Unless EliteFamily volunteers 3 hours a day to read through the logs, or buy enough plat every day to pay for someone else.

I am not a staff so it is not my job, but i will only say this: it takes a very long time to create a game like AL i am talking of years . So after spending so much time to create something this good you think it is a big deal to spend 3 hrs per week
minimalizing a major problem that the game you putted your heart and self to create is having?

And finally, dummy farming is not a scam or bug exploit. How would you classify running Jarl then?

3 words: PLAYER vs PLAYER


:O..

[TheReturn]

Never in my life have I fell for a scam, until I came to arcane legends,

[TheReturn]

I was 16, now im 17, and still havent fell for a scam. Elitefamily those are some excellent suggestions, great way to fight against scammers

[Fauksuras]

A list or some sort of "mark" of somebody being a scammer could be useful (kind of like sex offenders where there's a list and by law they have to inform it to new neighbors) BUT in game where you can make new alts in 3 minutes it won't be useful.

I don't know how many of you have been scammed or tried to be scammed first hand, but I assure you only noob scammers use their real or capped toon. The rest make alts or use low levels, how do you stop that?

Device ban sounds a bit extreme (considering everybody deserves second chances)

I wish reporting was a bit more seamless though.

Not something abusable but more intuitive as for people to know how (and bother) to report players.

Not everybody know how to take screenshots (or have the insight to detect a scammer to do it before hand) or can write a ver detailed report (as discussed earlier in forums there's a lot of non English speaking players)

[Zylx]

There is no better way of avoiding a scam than not trusting anyone. Dont give anything to anyone that you want back later. As STS said before, all trades are final. If a person truly is your friend, they wont put you in a situation that would demand 100% of your trust.

[Anarchist]

There is no better way of avoiding a scam than not trusting anyone. Dont give anything to anyone that you want back later. As STS said before, all trades are final. If a person truly is your friend, they wont put you in a situation that would demand 100% of your trust.

Thank you very much... but i think everyone already knows you don't have to trust anybody ecc and ecc. Thats common sense even a monkey knows (A monkey will diligently protect is banana).

What i am talking about is how to dissuade a potencial scammer from scamming. The best solutions i found how just like reality ones:

-Instill a fear of justice in a scammer. (Black List).
-inform players of the consequences of their actions.(Divulgating the ToS everywhere).
-Remove any possible protection for a scammer. (Adding control on name changing).

[Zylx]

Thank you very much... but i think everyone already knows you don't have to trust anybody ecc and ecc. Thats common sense even a monkey knows (A monkey will diligently protect is banana).

So, you're saying people who fall for scams are dumber than monkeys? Lol

What i am talking about is how to dissuade a potencial scammer from scamming. The best solutions i found how just like reality ones:

The best way is to make the scammer starve. After a while, and after a bunch of his scams fail, he'll probably realize that everyone else is smarter than him

-Instill a fear of justice in a scammer. (Black List).
-inform players of the consequences of their actions.(Divulgating the ToS everywhere).

This wont stop a scammer. Most of the time, a scammer scams because he thinks he can get away with it. Every one knows you can get banned from this game, but it doesnt stop them. Scammers are amoral people whose fear is overshadowed by their stupidity.

-Remove any possible protection for a scammer. (Adding control on name changing).

Again, character deletion/recreation would be an easy temporary exploit.

...

[Anarchist]

61349

So, you're saying people who fall for scams
are dumber than monkeys? Lol
I refuse to answer such a stupid question.

The best way is to make the scammer
starve. After a while, and after a bunch of
his scams fail, he'll probably realize that
everyone else is smarter than him

Most scammers don't wake up and decide from today henceforth they will go around tricking people it is because they get the opportunity to do so: maybe they ask their guild to help them with the midas, maybe they ask their friend to borrow them X item. Preventing a potencial scammer from becoming a scammer is what i am looking for.

This wont stop a scammer. Most of the
time, a scammer scams because he thinks
he can get away with it. Every one knows
you can get banned from this game, but it
doesnt stop them. Scammers are amoral
people whose fear is overshadowed by
their stupidity.

I never talked about stopping scam but reducing it. We as common players don't even know what happens to scam issues emailed to the support group. What happens to the scammer, to the items, to the victim? Everything is covered by a fog of secretecy and this helps scammers. For example If a theif knows that if he gets caught he will go to jail, his name will on newspaper, on tv, he will be put aside from community and he would be pubblicly marked as a theif ergo everyone will run away from him,
If this theif sees with is eyes that this rule was really applied and hundreds of theives have been condemned before him, the fear of justice will control his stupidity. Before he steals he will think ten times if it worth it.

Again, character deletion/recreation would
be an easy temporary exploit.

If a scammer deletes his toon then the problem is solved.