View Full Version : what really irritates about merchers
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 01:13 PM
Although i merch , i hate when people pm me for price of my item they say "lol no one will buy" then they offer some rediculous low price...
So im kind of writing this to let newer players know not to believe merchers they just say stuff to turn things in they favor... Like merchers saying jester will drop in price. They say it to merch off you n trick you
Like really? These are the same people who will laugh at you for offering what they just offered you.
Like if hammerjaw is 7.5 n im sellin 7m
Some idiot will say "lol it will never sell" and then offer me 6m...
But if i vice versa that same person will sell hammerjaw 7.5m i offer 6m he will call me noob.
So to sum it up when a full mythic arcane players wants your items and he tries to make you feel noob saying you overpricing your items just ignore them because they will sell it higher.
I wish for a capped listing fee in cs. Something like 100k. Then people would actually LIST items there. Then merchs and shady lowballers (not all merchs) wouldnt control the economy and so many people wouldnt be taken advantage of all the time.
Anarchist
02-21-2014, 01:22 PM
It is buisness.
It is buisness.
Actually, for us players its quite the opposite.
Bless
02-21-2014, 01:28 PM
5% for CS listing is a lot. 2% to 4% would at least be better for players, and we wouldn't need to use these shady tricks to lull innocent players for profits and instead list items directly in CS...
I could also say the same thing for expecting obscene prices like 26m for a vanity and wondering why the rich won't pay. O_O
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 01:30 PM
Its a lame buisness when you harass newer players and sike them out they items
And aedenos thts good idea somthin like o&c i see
Its a lame buisness when you harass newer players and sike them out they items
And aedenos thts good idea somthin like o&c i see
I'm not that type of merch, please don't mix me with them.
Bless
02-21-2014, 01:34 PM
But, Zeus has a point. We are driving prices up. It's the merchants that rise item value to sky high prices.
matanofx
02-21-2014, 01:38 PM
Guys, its just human nature, there will be people with a decent conscious who wouldnt try to trick others to get items for a low price
And there will ALWAYS be those who are a bit lower on the personality scale and will try to trick other players to get what they want
I dont think anything STG will do can change low ballers and i dont think people who dont know to avoid low ballers log in to forums
The idea of making auction listing fee smaller for the more expensive items seems logical to me, seems weird to lose 100k's or millions over listing fees.
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 01:39 PM
I could also say the same thing for expecting obscene prices like 26m for a vanity and wondering why the rich won't pay. O_O
If you want you will pay i have offers every where ranging18-22m gold n i got item/gold offers also...sooo???
Did yu look at your offers??
Even skeu a not so advanced mercher/player laughed even he see your offer is a complete joke .like your slapping me in the face.
Oh and even someone else commented on your offer lol
So you cant compare.
P.s this thread wasnt directed at you :) in general to let the newer people not be so gullible
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 01:43 PM
Guys, its just human nature, there will be people with a decent conscious who wouldnt try to trick others to get items for a low price
And there will ALWAYS be those who are a bit lower on the personality scale and will try to trick other players to get what they want
I dont think anything STG will do can change low ballers and i dont think people who dont know to avoid low ballers log in to forums
The idea of making auction listing fee smaller for the more expensive items seems logical to me, seems weird to lose 100k's or millions over listing fees.
Matan i kno by human nature we tricky
Jus raising awarness for newer people.
And yea i guess listing fees need a fix, items r getting expensive like arlor hats cost 150k to list
Ventus
02-21-2014, 01:44 PM
Matan i kno by human nature we tricky
Jus raising awarness for newer people.
And yea i guess listing fees need a fix, items r getting expensive like arlor hats cost 150k to list
the reason they made it so high to list higher items is because people start cutting eachother repeatedly in a rush to sell there item. oh no he cut me by 1 gold. better take mine out and re put it in costing 50-100k and cut him by 1 gold aswell! that will show him ! ._.
matanofx
02-21-2014, 01:47 PM
Ventus- when you think about what you said, its a double edge sword not a solution to anything.
dwellzz- read the 3rd line of my previous comment here. I seriously doubt youre raising awareness tho i wish you were.
If you want you will pay i have offers every where ranging18-22m gold n i got item/gold offers also...sooo???
Did yu look at your offers??
Even skeu a not so advanced mercher/player laughed even he see your offer is a complete joke .like your slapping me in the face.
Oh and even someone else commented on your offer lol
So you cant compare.
P.s this thread wasnt directed at you :) in general to let the newer people not be so gullible
I'm just giving example by example.
Honestly, I didn't really want it - it was more of something to start you off. Did I expect to get it? No. If I wanted it, I would have to sell off investments which doesn't make sense to me as I am expecting more turnover on them. Also, as I stated in your thread, I expected you to counter with a gold offer.
However, what is also just as bad is what I stated where people are expecting obscene prices. Right now, if you are looking at the offers - it is mainly merchants passing the sets to merchants, each merchant hoping that they will make profit on it. Yes, there are a few who want it for collection purposes, but most have bought the sets for 10-15m when they were initially released and then doubled the price.
Lastly, judging from the contest winners, you didn't win the set. So, I am guessing that you bought it from someone for much cheaper and now are using the same tactics I just described? The reason you've made this thread is because you're expecting more return on your jester vanity than what you bought it for.
Cry me a river, this thread is purely hypocritical.
wvhills
02-21-2014, 01:54 PM
i have no idea why there's a listing fee at all. it supposedly 1) acts as a gold sink to keep inflation down and 2) prevents people from listing items for obscene amounts because they could lose gold.
Well, here's my take:
1) having a gold sink in a game where u can add more gold into the economy buy converting gold to plat is ineffective
2) if ur a new player and get a good item you may not have enough gold to list in in CS. This only adds to the problem being discussed (i.e. new player feeling pressured into selling his item for much less than it's worth).
Ventus
02-21-2014, 01:56 PM
Ventus- when you think about what you said, its a double edge sword not a solution to anything.
dwellzz- read the 3rd line of my previous comment here. I seriously doubt youre raising awareness tho i wish you were.
I don't understand how you think I was posting a solution, lol. I was stating that is what peoples mindset are. I didn't once state that I had a solution?
i have no idea why there's a listing fee at all. it supposedly 1) acts as a gold sink to keep inflation down and 2) prevents people from listing items for obscene amounts because they could lose gold.
Well, here's my take:
1) having a gold sink in a game where u can add more gold into the economy buy converting gold to plat is ineffective
2) if ur a new player and get a good item you may not have enough gold to list in in CS. This only adds to the problem being discussed (i.e. new player feeling pressured into selling his item for much less than it's worth).
Agreed.
The high listing fee of the AH generate too much of a gold sink. Also, money in this game is harder to obtain than a game like PL - so why do we have an even higher listing fee?
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 01:58 PM
I'm just giving example by example.
Honestly, I didn't really want it - it was more of something to start you off. Did I expect to get it? No. If I wanted it, I would have to sell off investments which doesn't make sense to me as I am expecting more turnover on them. Also, as I stated in your thread, I expected you to counter with a gold offer.
However, what is also just as bad is what I stated where people are expecting obscene prices. Right now, if you are looking at the offers - it is mainly merchants passing the sets to merchants, each merchant hoping that they will make profit on it. Yes, there are a few who want it for collection purposes, but most have bought the sets for 10-15m when they were initially released and then doubled the price.
Lastly, judging from the contest winners, you didn't win the set. So, I am guessing that you bought it from someone for much cheaper and now are using the same tactics I just described? The reason you've made this thread is because you're expecting more return on your jester vanity than what you bought it for.
Cry me a river, this thread is purely hypocritical.
Ok so if i pmed you sayin deal for your offer you would of said no although you was just offering and didnt want it ?? Get real ..you offered like 10m in items , the people who paid 10-15m got the clueless people which i feel bad for
Delph posted winners names to congrat them which also set them up to be bombarded with pms from the know it all merchers
And those are the 10m-15m sets that got sold
5% for CS listing is a lot. 2% to 4% would at least be better for players, and we wouldn't need to use these shady tricks to lull innocent players for profits and instead list items directly in CS...
Exactly
I could also say the same thing for expecting obscene prices like 26m for a vanity and wondering why the rich won't pay. O_O
That's true. If there was a better system in CS, it would be MUCH easier to gauge what the "true" market value is.
Rather than this
"its worth this much"
"i got an offer for this much"
"it will never sell for that much"
"so and so is selling for this much"
I dont think anything STG will do can change low ballers and i dont think people who dont know to avoid low ballers log in to forums
The idea of making auction listing fee smaller for the more expensive items seems logical to me, seems weird to lose 100k's or millions over listing fees.
Exactly. Take this for example. Singe egg. What's the "REAL" price for this? Nobody knows. One day someone buys for 35M, another day, 25M. By capping the CS listing fee (some decently high value), it will encourage people to list these items rather than walking around town gossiping and trying to sell at some artificial value.
If there are 25 listed in CS, you can reasonably assume the market value is at or below the lowest value. If there is 1 or none... what do you do? You have to go by what people say. This creates a very unstable market with huge fluctuations in item values.
For items over 3m (for example) most people are not going to list these in cs because of:
1) the very high cost of listing fees
2) listing runs a high risk of losing your listing fee because you really have no idea of the actual value of an item
Hence the reason there are so few items at this price.
Ok so if i pmed you sayin deal for your offer you would of said no although you was just offering and didnt want it ?? Get real ..you offered like 10m in items , the people who paid 10-15m got the clueless people which i feel bad for
Delph posted winners names to congrat them which also set them up to be bombarded with pms from the know it all merchers
And those are the 10m-15m sets that got sold
I'm saying that you didn't win the set. So, you most likely also bought it from some poor chap with an offer that you now scoff at?
As for the offer, it's worth like 13m or so. Would I have said yes? Sure, but what that have happened? No, so let's not talk about hypotheticals that are not going to happen. That, dwellzz, is only illogical and fallacious.
As I've said before, the message behind the thread is true - but you made it for reasons to benefit yourself.
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 02:06 PM
And i am talkin in general for the newer players
Zeus feeling like hes being directed lol i wonder why
Anyway read my post again its about shady merchers tryna trick people by lying saying things like "lol that
will never sell gl" and stuff.
Dont get so defensive exposing yourself
Crymeariverrrr
Anarchist
02-21-2014, 02:07 PM
Come on everyone it is buisness. Even irl a merchant will do everything to buy your stuff at a lower price so he can make profit out of it.
It is in your interest as a seller to get smarter, battle the price, ask around and inform yourself of the REAL value of your items.
If you don't inform yourself and let others manipulate you it is your fault.
This thread makes no sense.
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 02:08 PM
Il be honest zeus your offer sparked it but in general i made it for all
Il giv u credit where its due dev close it :)
Bless
02-21-2014, 02:10 PM
Lastly, judging from the contest winners, you didn't win the set. So, I am guessing that you bought it from someone for much cheaper and now are using the same tactics I just described? The reason you've made this thread is because you're expecting more return on your jester vanity than what you bought it for.
Cry me a river, this thread is purely hypocritical.
Not taking sides but that is a legit argument! Some merchants frequently try to first lower prices then buy an item (or just buy at normal) then they try to raise prices to get more profits. Including fake offers from fake forum accs etc. These shady merchants need to just leave the market as it is.
I am a merchant too but I have never tried to intentionally raise the whole market price for an item, it is just stupid because others will have to suffer. Instead, just find bargains and sell for normal, or wait for special events!
And i am talkin in general for the newer players
Zeus feeling like hes being directed lol i wonder why
Anyway read my post again its about shady merchers tryna trick people by lying saying things like "lol that
will never sell gl" and stuff.
Dont get so defensive exposing yourself
Crymeariverrrr
I used myself as an example because of you being a hypocrite. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered. It's very evident exactly why you made the thread, so please don't try to deny it. You can't use the same tactics and then when it comes time to sell the product, you scoff at others paying what you bought it for. That, dwellzz, is my point.
It's the name of the game - deal with it if you are going to be merchanting.
Not taking sides but that is a legit argument! Some merchants frequently try to first lower prices then buy an item (or just buy at normal) then they try to raise prices to get more profits. Including fake offers from fake forum accs etc. These shady merchants need to just leave the market as it is.
I am a merchant too but I have never tried to intentionally raise the whole market price for an item, it is just stupid because others will have to suffer. Instead, just find bargains and sell for normal, or wait for special events!
I would thank you if I could, but I'm out of thanks! :/
As for the offer, it's worth like 13m or so.
This is kind of what I mean. This is impossible to gauge right now. You're right... kind of. Its worth 13mish to you. But maybe not to others.
And this, for me, has absolutely nothing to do with the jester. You can ask anyone that's asked me in game. If they ask me to sell I say no before I even get an offer from them.
It's about even smaller more common things. For example. I have a Tarlok Scaled Plate of Assault L20 with 2 grand blood gems. Its listed in CS at 1.75m. So when I sell I ask for 1.4m and I get "lol"ed. Well, what's a person suppose to do? Should I lower my price because this guy "lol"ed me? Meanwhile, there are 50 other people trying to sell these too. And they have no idea about a good value because there is nothing to base it off of.
Desperoto
02-21-2014, 02:15 PM
As example, idk who it was.. But someone made the price from the green arlor sets from 2 to 4m
It is in your interest as a seller to get smarter, battle the price, ask around and inform yourself of the REAL value of your items.
Its impossible to know the real value as it stands now. There are over 100k players in AL I'm sure. In a given day, how many can you talk to? How many have legit knowledge? How many of those are merchants? And of those merchants how many can you trust?
Come on, don't be naive. Its a very legit concern. To say it doesn't make any sense doesn't make any sense. It makes perfect sense.
This is kind of what I mean. This is impossible to gauge right now. You're right... kind of. Its worth 13mish to you. But maybe not to others.
And this, for me, has absolutely nothing to do with the jester. You can ask anyone that's asked me in game. If they ask me to sell I say no before I even get an offer from them.
It's about even smaller more common things. For example. I have a Tarlok Scaled Plate of Assault L20 with 2 grand blood gems. Its listed in CS at 1.75m. So when I sell I ask for 1.4m and I get "lol"ed. Well, what's a person suppose to do? Should I lower my price because this guy "lol"ed me? Meanwhile, there are 50 other people trying to sell these too. And they have no idea about a good value because there is nothing to base it off of.
You do have a point. Whenever I am trying to merch legendaries, people try to apply the mythic listing prices to legendary items and think what they are offering you is a fair price. In all honesty, in order for the market to stabilize more, the listing fee needs to be reduced.
@Desp
That was supply and demand. I regret selling the initial sets I collected for 2.5m each, lol!
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 02:21 PM
I used myself as an example because of you being a hypocrite. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered. It's very evident exactly why you made the thread, so please don't try to deny it. You can't use the same tactics and then when it comes time to sell the product, you scoff at others paying what you bought it for. That, dwellzz, is my point.
It's the name of the game - deal with it if you are going to be merchanting.
Still no...i merch yes im sure u see me a lot in auc or w.e
i dont sit there saying stuff like
"your jester gonna drop because sts gonna release this color and then this blahblahblah" or "i buy hammerjaw 5m because thats how much he cost now"(im not saying u say this its example of who im talkin about since u said i use same tactics when i dont)
Like who is anyone to make predictions of what sts is doing or say any price is perfectly correct lol
So again zeus taking it personal get off the high horse. Its not about you your offer or me n my vanity
Your ignorance is bliss
Its impossible to know the real value as it stands now. There are over 100k players in AL I'm sure. In a given day, how many can you talk to? How many have legit knowledge? How many of those are merchants? And of those merchants how many can you trust?
Come on, don't be naive. Its a very legit concern. To say it doesn't make any sense doesn't make any sense. It makes perfect sense.
This is very true.
Heck, I even ask other merchants the price checks on items because when somebody sets a price in this game, it's a dominos effect. The next person wants higher and the next person wants even higher. There's really no end to it until people run out of money to pay.
Runescape
02-21-2014, 02:21 PM
Merchers are horribly sad and mistakes of nature
Envoyé de mon iPod touch à l'aide de Tapatalk
This is very true.
Heck, I even ask other merchants the price checks on items because when somebody sets a price in this game, it's a dominos effect. The next person wants higher and the next person wants even higher. There's really no end to it until people run out of money to pay.
I ask people prices all the time too. And there are only a few people I think I can trust. And I go to them a lot. You probably know some of them :)
But its not enough to have 4 or 5 people.
Still no...i merch yes im sure u see me a lot in auc or w.e
i dont sit there saying stuff like
"your jester gonna drop because sts gonna release this color and then this blahblahblah" or "i buy hammerjaw 5m because thats how much he cost now"
Like who is anyone to make predictions of what sts is doing or say any price is perfectly correct lol
So again zeus taking it personal get off the high horse. Its not about you your offer or me n my vanity
Your ignorance is bliss
You keep saying this bolded area as a defense, but I am not doing this either. So, who are you trying to prove this to...yourself? Anyways, this argument is going to go nowhere so I suggest we just be mature about it and drop it as we have a difference in thoughts.
I've stated why you made the thread, you've attempted to disprove it. In my view, I'm looking at the facts and information provided and there can only be one reason why you made the thread. Heck, you even stated that your offer is what set you off towards creating this thread. Again, this is just my opinion though.
I hope you're less angry later on...
Cheers!
Sorcerie
02-21-2014, 02:31 PM
I don't care much for the merchers, too much shade no matter how you look at it - at the end of the day it's all about the gold and they will use whatever form of persuasion is needed to get that item out of you. Some are slightly more reputable than others, but they're all thieves. period.
Madnex
02-21-2014, 02:33 PM
Human greed, hello?
No one's going to be a good Samaritan when he can profit at the cost of just some petty acting or little trickery.
There are no morals in the world of business (yes, it's spelled business); as long as the risk is at moderate levels, it will be done.
In conclusion:
http://i62.tinypic.com/2dr71cj.gif
Bless
02-21-2014, 02:34 PM
Merchanting is a bad business if you're greedy, it'll eat away at your reputation as you get richer (greedier). But among some bad apples, there are those reputed merchants who try not to rip people off immensely. Maybe it's because it's nearly expansion time? I remember last season was similar, the market went haywire and merchants dominated the market because mythics were being upgraded.
Also is anybody else aware that mythics and arcanes are mostly ONLY being circulated amongst merchants - that's why prices fluctuate I guess. A week ago I could buy whim at 15m but now it's atleast a mil or two higher.
ruizerwin
02-21-2014, 02:36 PM
Happen many times...
Ventus
02-21-2014, 02:38 PM
Merchanting is a bad business if you're greedy, it'll eat away at your reputation as you get richer (greedier). But among some bad apples, there are those reputed merchants who try not to rip people off immensely. Maybe it's because it's nearly expansion time? I remember last season was similar, the market went haywire and merchants dominated the market because mythics were being upgraded.
Also is anybody else aware that mythics and arcanes are mostly ONLY being circulated amongst merchants - that's why prices fluctuate I guess. A week ago I could buy whim at 15m but now it's atleast a mil or two higher.
This is sadly true.. Due to the guys in every pier. every travelors. constantly typing buying all mythics/arcane eggs. some new guy could end up looting a egg or a mythic out of his first locked and falls into this trap because the guy he said he'd sell to offered him a horrible offer. Only for him to sell it. Im aware that itll be his fault for not looking at places but come on. What if he tried searching the auction and the samael egg he just looted wasnt in the auction. And captain reseller decides to offer 10m and the kid thinks omg im rich. and then the reseller turns and sells for 10m+ profit. :S I feel bad for things like that that happen but we can't do much about it..
Luckily for anyone who isn't new and uses the forums. Its quite easy to spot a reseller.
Anarchist
02-21-2014, 02:38 PM
Its impossible to know the real value as it stands now. There are over 100k players in AL I'm sure. In a given day, how many can you talk to? How many have legit knowledge? How many of those are merchants? And of those merchants how many can you trust?
Come on, don't be naive. Its a very legit concern. To say it doesn't make any sense doesn't make any sense. It makes perfect sense.
IMHO i don't think it makes sense.
The Cs is a helping tool made for selling things it's secondary purpose though seems to be that of showing the average price of every item.
But if the item you are selling cost too much to be listed or it so rare nobody can actually determinate it's price what do you do?
You start a thread saying people are trying to steal from you cause they are low balling?
Lmao!
First of all it is a free world and i can offer 1 gold for your jester vanity it is you as the seller that has to say NO.
Secondly this is how the game of merching runs, if there is a possibility of buying something low and reselling it higher which mercher wouldn't do it? It is practically the base of merch everyone has been prophesizing since day 1.
To those regreting they sold their jester vanities for lower price than its actual value, to those complaining about merchers low balling for their jesters i say:
"GET BETTER MERCHING TECHNIQUES AND STOP COMPLAINING"
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 02:40 PM
You keep saying this bolded area as a defense, but I am not doing this either. So, who are you trying to prove this to...yourself? Anyways, this argument is going to go nowhere so I suggest we just be mature about it and drop it as we have a difference in thoughts.
I've stated why you made the thread, you've attempted to disprove it. In my view, I'm looking at the facts and information provided and there can only be one reason why you made the thread. Heck, you even stated that your offer is what set you off towards creating this thread. Again, this is just my opinion though.
I hope you're less angry later on...
Cheers!
Again you are wrong.
You stated why i made this and i have stated why i made this. How can you tell me why i made this? Ignorance is bliss
If you read that area u bolded i didnt say thats what you do neither so again you just feel targeted like how you brung my vanity up you felt targeted
And how say this thread isnt going no where i already said
"devs close this"
This is what i mean by your high horse
You keep going because you feel as your opion is greater then others and you demand recognition nd want last say altho you are wrong.
You try to tell me why i made this so you can be correct but no...you are wrong.
Devs close :P
Human greed, hello?
No one's going to be a good Samaritan when he can profit at the cost of just some petty acting or little trickery.
There are no morals in the world of business (yes, it's spelled business); as long as the risk is at moderate levels, it will be done.
In conclusion:
http://i62.tinypic.com/2dr71cj.gif
I disagree. Many of us play this game for fun. I'm not interested in cheating people. However, I do want to make gold for one reason or another. But I'd never go so far as to cheat someone. But, I wouldn't really consider myself a merchant (at least not a good one)
IMHO i don't think it makes sense.
The Cs is a helping tool made for selling things it's secondary purpose though seems to be that of showing the average price of every item.
But if the item you are selling cost too much to be listed or it so rare nobody can actually determinate it's price what do you do?
You start a thread saying people are trying to steal from you cause they are low balling?
Lmao!
First of all it is a free world and i can offer 1 gold for your jester vanity it is you as the seller that has to say NO.
Secondly this is how the game of merching runs, if there is a possibility of buying something low and reselling it higher which mercher wouldn't do it? It is practically the base of merch everyone has been prophesizing since day 1.
To those regreting they sold their jester vanities for lower price than its actual value, to those complaining about merchers low balling for their jesters i say:
"GET BETTER MERCHING TECHNIQUES AND STOP COMPLAINING"
I can understand if you said you don't agree with it. No problem. But to say "it doesn't make sense"... that's a you problem. Not a me problem. It makes perfect sense if you look outside your bubble.
You can feel free to offer whatever you want for anything. it doesn't change the fact that it remains impossible to determine anything's value (well, lets say rare, "high" value items). And why there are such huge swings in values of things. Just look at the traders market. Look at the delta in prices for (buying or selling) jester vanities. One person selling for 20m+... another for 16m... another wants to trade for singe. Why? because nobody has any idea about the real value.
I say, allow the market determine the value. Not 10 or 20 people in arlor. Cap the listing fees in CS and let people list them without fear of losing a large chunks of gold. If someone lists too high, nobody will buy it. What's the difference? CS is transparent. EVERYONE can see it. Not a little black market that operates from the shadows where most people don't really know whats going on.
Anarchist
02-21-2014, 03:04 PM
I can understand if you said you don't agree with it. No problem. But to say "it doesn't make sense"... that's a you problem. Not a me problem. It makes perfect sense if you look outside your bubble.
You can feel free to offer whatever you want for anything. it doesn't change the fact that it remains impossible to determine anything's value (well, lets say rare, "high" value items). And why there are such huge swings in values of things. Just look at the traders market. Look at the delta in prices for (buying or selling) jester vanities. One person selling for 20m+... another for 16m... another wants to trade for singe. Why? because nobody has any idea about the real value.
I say, allow the market determine the value. Not 10 or 20 people in arlor. Cap the listing fees in CS and let people list them without fear of losing a large chunks of gold. If someone lists too high, nobody will buy it. What's the difference? CS is transparent. EVERYONE can see it. Not a little black market that operates from the shadows where most people don't really know whats going on.
I see where you are going but i am sorry to tell you this...
I think enough have already been done for the jester winners giving them just the chance to win.
Changing the whole system for just 1 item makes no sense to me.
If you want to list your jester pay the fee or sell it outside the cs taking the risk.
When value swings is the time the true skills of a seller emerge.
Get better skills, do a lot of research and you will sell your jesters for a good price trust me.
Anyway it is normal that new and rare items valie swings all this talk is for nothing.
falmear
02-21-2014, 03:09 PM
64198
I see where you are going but i am sorry to tell you this...
I think enough have already been done for the jester winners giving them just the chance to win.
Changing the whole system for just 1 item makes no sense to me.
If you want to list your jester pay the fee or sell it outside the cs taking the risk.
When value swings is the time the true skills of a seller emerge.
Get better skills, do a lot of research and you will sell your jesters for a good price trust me.
Anyway it is normal that new and rare items valie swings all this talk is for nothing.
I think there was a misunderstand about what I was saying. Let me clarify. I AM NOT selling my Jester vanity and I'm not interested in prices. None of this discussion has anything to do with it. I was merely using it as an example of a high priced item who's value fluctuates daily.
Its a greater problem with any item of value high enough that people can't (or won't) list in CS because of the high listing price. My example earlier of the Tarlok. Its in CS for 1.75m. What should I list it at? I am trying to sell in town for even 1.4 and a person scoffs at me. Should I spend the 100k and list it? I don't know. I have no idea if that person was right or if CS is more acurate. Because there is only one listed.
This is just an example. Not asking advice or anything like that. Just to illustrate my point. If the listing price was lower, many more people would list their items with the potential loss being much lower. In the end, the market will dictate when the item hits the sweet spot. Rather than speculation.
Fauksuras
02-21-2014, 03:37 PM
I understand the purpose of the fee as it helps avoid ridiculous prices and undercutting by constant relisting but what bothers me the most is tje concept of paying a fee whether it sells or not.
In my opinion it should be: Item sells? You get sale gold and lose deposit/fee
Item doesn't sell? You get item back to relist and the fee/deposit
You want to cancel sale? You can cancel but lose fee/deposit
That way people won't be scared of losing money (because let's be honest I usually don't mind the fee as much as losing it because somebody undercut me or simply not lucky those 3 days), there will be a gold sink on actual sales and constant relisting is still controlled.
Win/win/win
About marchers everyone is trying to make a buck. Some use less than ethical means, those are in my ignore list sinply. With that said there are many fair merchers.
If you're really interested in names I'm sure you can find some in game.
Theres a particular one im yet to find somebody who likes him or even takes him seriously due to his low ball offers, only way he can be in "business" is taking advantage of newbies cause nobody with some experience will deal with him.
Anarchist
02-21-2014, 03:43 PM
I think you're completely missing my point. Let me clarify. I AM NOT selling my Jester vanity, and none of this discussion has anything to do with it. I was merely using it as an example of a high priced item that's value fluctuates daily.
Its a greater problem with any item of value high enough that people can't (or won't) list in CS because of the high listing price. My example earlier of the Tarlok. Its in CS for 1.75m. What should I list it at? I am trying to sell in town for even 1.4 and a person scoffs at me. Should I spend the 100k and list it? I don't know. I have no idea if that person was right or if CS is more acurate. Because there is only one listed.
This is just an example. Not asking advice or anything like that. Just to illustrate my point. If the listing price was lower, many more people would list their items with the potential loss being much lower. In the end, the market will dictate when the item hits the sweet spot. Rather than speculation.
Aah now i understand :)
but 2 things i would like you to remember and i am done:
1. without speculation and with the average price of all the items dictated by the cs there will be no fun and no gain in merching. By the way these days it is already hard to merch in profit.
2. There are many times when the price of a item in the cs is absolutely wrong due to too many players selling that same item at the same time. This commonly resuls in you getting bad info from Cs and loosing gold.
At the end of the day it all comes down to 2 things:
1. how much research you do.
2. your merching skills.
Fauksuras
02-21-2014, 03:46 PM
Its impossible to know the real value as it stands now. There are over 100k players in AL I'm sure. In a given day, how many can you talk to? How many have legit knowledge? How many of those are merchants? And of those merchants how many can you trust?
Come on, don't be naive. Its a very legit concern. To say it doesn't make any sense doesn't make any sense. It makes perfect sense.
IMHO i don't think it makes sense.
The Cs is a helping tool made for selling things it's secondary purpose though seems to be that of showing the average price of every item.
But if the item you are selling cost too much to be listed or it so rare nobody can actually determinate it's price what do you do?
You start a thread saying people are trying to steal from you cause they are low balling?
Lmao!
First of all it is a free world and i can offer 1 gold for your jester vanity it is you as the seller that has to say NO.
Secondly this is how the game of merching runs, if there is a possibility of buying something low and reselling it higher which mercher wouldn't do it? It is practically the base of merch everyone has been prophesizing since day 1.
To those regreting they sold their jester vanities for lower price than its actual value, to those complaining about merchers low balling for their jesters i say:
"GET BETTER MERCHING TECHNIQUES AND STOP COMPLAINING"
While I get the gist of what you're saying I think the issue stems from the low ball merchers trying to use dirty tactics to get low prices, such as the "it will never sell for that you noob" aforementioned. Somebody with good or legit intention or purchase will just take the "no thanks" and go on their way, not try to bully or pressure somebody to sell them for whatever ludicrous price they offered.
Another technique they do (and somebody tried on me who probably changed IGN again) is the "mystery alternate seller". When i had hooks I was trying to sell for 10M, this mercher messages me saying she will buy. SUDDENLY "wait" , a few minutes pass and... "just got a message from another seller he is selling for 8M,you're selling too high I'll give 7.5M"
I didn't even bother replying to her, a few hours later I sold for 10.25M to a legit buyer.
Food for thought
dwellzz
02-21-2014, 04:25 PM
While I get the gist of what you're saying I think the issue stems from the low ball merchers trying to use dirty tactics to get low prices, such as the "it will never sell for that you noob" aforementioned. Somebody with good or legit intention or purchase will just take the "no thanks" and go on their way, not try to bully or pressure somebody to sell them for whatever ludicrous price they offered.
Another technique they do (and somebody tried on me who probably changed IGN again) is the "mystery alternate seller". When i had hooks I was trying to sell for 10M, this mercher messages me saying she will buy. SUDDENLY "wait" , a few minutes pass and... "just got a message from another seller he is selling for 8M,you're selling too high I'll give 7.5M"
I didn't even bother replying to her, a few hours later I sold for 10.25M to a legit buyer.
Food for thought
This!!!! Exactly what i mean patience is key .
elmanco
02-21-2014, 04:29 PM
Actually this a another way of scam. Just ripping off with high prices..
Sts probably can make a trading system, with an historic sale of same item is trading, so buyer and seller can know the las 5 prices of the same item...isnt hard to implement
ElfDreamer
02-21-2014, 04:39 PM
Its business guys.
Need experience+merching skills!
Aah now i understand :)
but 2 things i would like you to remember and i am done:
1. without speculation and with the average price of all the items dictated by the cs there will be no fun and no gain in merching. By the way these days it is already hard to merch in profit.
2. There are many times when the price of a item in the cs is absolutely wrong due to too many players selling that same item at the same time. This commonly resuls in you getting bad info from Cs and loosing gold.
At the end of the day it all comes down to 2 things:
1. how much research you do.
2. your merching skills.
For your first point, I disagree slightly. There is still the ability to buy low. If people are trying to move things fast, they will sell low. This is an opporunity for merchants to find these people and buy their wares. Still, if I were going to sell outside of cs (or buy) I would expect somewhere between a 10-20% discount at least. This is for the convenience of "selling now". The higher the price of the item the more you are going to potentially make. As you get into arcane item rarity, there aren't nearly as many buyers as there are for say mythic rarity. So people will still be willing to wiggle. AT LEAST they will know a good starting point.
For the second point, I disagree. The example you gave is exactly what supply in demand is. With the CS, its supply and demand in plain view where everyone can see it. If there are 30 people wanting to sell an item and only 10 people buying, the price will go down. And vice versa. Then it becomes the responsibility of the seller to wait until the price is right for them to sell.
Now of course, this is NOT good for the afformentioned merchant that would like to manipulate the market.
elmanco
02-21-2014, 04:50 PM
For your first point, I disagree slightly. There is still the ability to buy low. If people are trying to move things fast, they will sell low. This is an opporunity for merchants to find these people and buy their wares. Still, if I were going to sell outside of cs (or buy) I would expect somewhere between a 10-20% discount at least. This is for the convenience of "selling now". The higher the price of the item the more you are going to potentially make. As you get into arcane item rarity, there aren't nearly as many buyers as there are for say mythic rarity. So people will still be willing to wiggle. AT LEAST they will know a good starting point.
For the second point, I disagree. The example you gave is exactly what supply in demand is. With the CS, its supply and demand in plain view where everyone can see it. If there are 30 people wanting to sell an item and only 10 people buying, the price will go down. And vice versa. Then it becomes the responsibility of the seller to wait until the price is right for them to sell.
Now of course, this is NOT good for the afformentioned merchant that would like to manipulate the market.
Ade read first post, that wasnt waiting to sell. Just push ppl to sell lower and the they would sell lot higher isnt merching
baddiva
02-21-2014, 06:29 PM
Agreed.
The high listing fee of the AH generate too much of a gold sink. Also, money in this game is harder to obtain than a game like PL - so why do we have an even higher listing fee?
maybe it was intended to boost plat -> gold sales
Yah i agree with this..kids nowadays.pfft!
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Bless
02-21-2014, 06:59 PM
Agreed.
The high listing fee of the AH generate too much of a gold sink. Also, money in this game is harder to obtain than a game like PL - so why do we have an even higher listing fee?
maybe it was intended to boost plat -> gold sales Omg...guys not every gold sink is designed to get people to buy gold with plat!
Samdegreat
02-21-2014, 07:43 PM
Like already mentioned its like life...
You have your individual classes-
Those who have too much gold and don't care if there ripped off they just want the item they desire.
(Plat buyers)
Those "business men" who just buy items of the poor and advertise and sell items to the ones who pay anything for them. (Merchers/merchants)
Then at rock bottom you have the workers at are the key feature to this kind of society, without them nothing would exist, they earn all the items and unfair trade occurs they end up getting little proportion of what is yet to be made allowing them to just about make a living (in this case buy decent gear)
(Newbies/farmers)
Don't criticise society, you know if you were part of the "upper class" you would easily take advantage!
As you "chavs" say YOLO
From what i am getting from the OP, it seems that everyone who merches (nearly everyone who is rich), is an evil medusa devouring everyone's gold potential in the hopes of gaining their own. I havent read through the comments, as i feel as though they probably have insufficient nonsense used to berate colliding opinions. Am i right or am i right? As for my opinion (which no one will probably care about), merching is life. If you dont take your understanding of the way things are seriously, you're eventually going to lose. If you give in to a merchant's offer (even if you are trying to sell for reasonably more), you do so by your own greed. You arent forced to sell them your item. You do it because you want to make quick cash.
Bless
02-21-2014, 07:49 PM
Like already mentioned its like life...
You have your individual classes-
Those who have too much gold and don't care if there ripped off they just want the item they desire.
(Plat buyers)
Those "business men" who just buy items of the poor and advertise and sell items to the ones who pay anything for them. (Merchers/merchants)
Then at rock bottom you have the workers at are the key feature to this kind of society, without them nothing would exist, they earn all the items and unfair trade occurs they end up getting little proportion of what is yet to be made allowing them to just about make a living (in this case buy decent gear)
(Newbies/farmers)
Don't criticise society, you know if you were part of the "upper class" you would easily take advantage!
As you "chavs" say YOLO Yep, and a very british example :p
Samdegreat
02-21-2014, 07:57 PM
Yep, and a very british example :p
British and proud :)
Xpell
02-21-2014, 08:25 PM
Im a bit confused. Seems like there are two slightly different conversations in one thread. lol
Bless
02-21-2014, 08:28 PM
Im a bit confused. Seems like there are two slightly different conversations in one thread. lol The topic has been over-beaten and conclusions have been jumped to. You now have 3 options: 1. Derail 2. Keep repeating the points as if it will make a difference 3. Let the thread be ignored and die down
Goodnight
Sheener
02-21-2014, 08:58 PM
I agree with making lower merch fees but only for high value items.
Htiek
02-22-2014, 02:13 AM
I often receive pms who ask for discount or try to lowballs.
Just reply "no ask just buy" or "no gold no ask"
Its work perfect. http://forum2.hkgolden.com/faces/agree.gif
Gensin
02-22-2014, 05:56 AM
VERY, normal for me you will just have to adjust and control yourself to stick with the price, if the buyer wants discount give him/her descent one.
Don't criticise society, you know if you were part of the "upper class" you would easily take advantage!
As you "chavs" say YOLO
That's a very shallow generalization. And false I might add
Anarchist
02-22-2014, 06:32 AM
That's a very shallow generalization. And false I might add
Aedenos there is noting bad in low balling and trying to make some profit or trying to manipulate market.
Manipulating the market is not the purest of all actions but trust me it is so
difficult that if you succeed you are only to be praised.
The number 1 rule in merch has always been: buy low, sell high.
There are also hundreds of threads and pseudo guides on the forum about merching this way to get rich, and nobody has ever said a word against it, infact it has always been promoted and approved.
So why all this ruckus now?.... (rhetorical question).
Lovingly
02-22-2014, 07:37 AM
Like already mentioned its like life...
You have your individual classes-
Those who have too much gold and don't care if there ripped off they just want the item they desire.
(Plat buyers)
Those "business men" who just buy items of the poor and advertise and sell items to the ones who pay anything for them. (Merchers/merchants)
Then at rock bottom you have the workers at are the key feature to this kind of society, without them nothing would exist, they earn all the items and unfair trade occurs they end up getting little proportion of what is yet to be made allowing them to just about make a living (in this case buy decent gear)
(Newbies/farmers)
Don't criticise society, you know if you were part of the "upper class" you would easily take advantage!
As you "chavs" say YOLO
mate, you can't put this any better, massive thumb + my big toe up to you sir (y)
Aedenos there is noting bad in low balling and trying to make some profit or trying to manipulate market.
Manipulating the market is not the purest of all actions but trust me it is so
difficult that if you succeed you are only to be praised.
The number 1 rule in merch has always been: buy low, sell high.
There are also hundreds of threads and pseudo guides on the forum about merching this way to get rich, and nobody has ever said a word against it, infact it has always been promoted and approved.
So why all this ruckus now?.... (rhetorical question).
Elite, please read my post and what I was responding to
Edit: Maybe I misunderstood what he was saying.
Also, there's no "ruckus" as you say. Rather a discussion about something that been s problem for a few seasons now, IMO.
I never said anything was wrong with lowballing OR merchanting. I'll just say it one more time. There is a flaw in the system. And I already explained it. It has nothing to do with low balling. In fact, the problem arises before an offer is ever made.
And, in response to Samdagreat's post, he is absolutely correct. However, just like society and real life, things can always be improved.
Titanium
02-22-2014, 10:38 AM
This thread is so hilarious cause is made by Dwellz ! Other than that i think Jester costs 200m ! Zeus you are so wrong ;)
Gensin
02-24-2014, 09:24 AM
Ok hunt a jester right now hahah
Alhuntrazeck
02-24-2014, 10:49 AM
I was selling colton for 95k (cs price 105k) and this merch pmd me saying he'd buy for 90k, because "lolol no one will buy come back to me when u cant sell that". Outta curiousity I sold it to him for 90k, hopped on my alt and asked him how much he was selling for. The answer? 95k. I said "lol no one will buy at that high price I'll buy for 90k he said "lol don't try to merch off me noob"
...
I was selling colton for 95k (cs price 105k) and this merch pmd me saying he'd buy for 90k, because "lolol no one will buy come back to me when u cant sell that". Outta curiousity I sold it to him for 90k, hopped on my alt and asked him how much he was selling for. The answer? 95k. I said "lol no one will buy at that high price I'll buy for 90k he said "lol don't try to merch off me noob"
...
LOL that's a lot of work for 5k. Maybe that's why I can't merch.
epicrrr
02-24-2014, 04:21 PM
Whats irritating is merch dude buy your items for 50k then after deal he goes shouting sell for 75k.. after he told you al those crap. Lol
Swimmingstar
02-24-2014, 06:06 PM
This thread should be a merching guide... very great tips.
Venom
02-24-2014, 08:17 PM
What AL really needs is a REAL Auction system. Right now what it has is just a Buy-it-now price system due to which items keep getting undercut. If they could add a Minimum bid price and a Buy-it-now price, it would be just great. That ways a seller can take offers and an item can be sold to the highest offer he has, if nobody buys it for the BIN price. Also, auction fee can be deducted once the item has been SOLD instead of taking away money at start whether or not it sells.
Xenobiotic
02-24-2014, 10:01 PM
What AL really needs is a REAL Auction system. Right now what it has is just a Buy-it-now price system due to which items keep getting undercut. If they could add a Minimum bid price and a Buy-it-now price, it would be just great. That ways a seller can take offers and an item can be sold to the highest offer he has, if nobody buys it for the BIN price. Also, auction fee can be deducted once the item has been SOLD instead of taking away money at start whether or not it sells.
The last part is genius, nice one def :p.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Swimmingstar
02-24-2014, 10:03 PM
The last part is genius, nice one def :p.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That was already suggested earlier in the thread, happened to see it while skimming for merching strategies.
Xenobiotic
02-24-2014, 10:04 PM
That was already suggested earlier in the thread, happened to see it while skimming for merching strategies.
Oh.y doesnt stg implement these fascinating ideas?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What AL really needs is a REAL Auction system. Right now what it has is just a Buy-it-now price system due to which items keep getting undercut. If they could add a Minimum bid price and a Buy-it-now price, it would be just great. That ways a seller can take offers and an item can be sold to the highest offer he has, if nobody buys it for the BIN price. Also, auction fee can be deducted once the item has been SOLD instead of taking away money at start whether or not it sells.
That seems too complicated for AL. The buy-it-now store is officially called the consignment shop, and consignment is placing an item to another person/thing in hopes of selling while still retaining ownership of the item. It's not an auction house, that's a player term. It would be pretty neat to be able to bid on items against other players, but you'd have to take into account the many copies of the same items people would post. If you want an item, are you going to bid on all of them? An auction would only be effective for the rare items that everyone wants, like mythics or arcanes.
Anarchist
02-25-2014, 01:27 AM
The art of merching is just like fighting a boss, the seller or buyer, trying to reach a goal, the item or gold, with minimum deaths possible, profit loss.
So if it were for me i would just eliminate the CS.
(For me it is limitative and makes things super easy to the extent people now want fixed price for items).
Then i will build a self selling system that includes:
1. world chat where everyone can partecipate saying what they want to sell and
2. A banner over your head where you can list the things you want to sell so any map you enter it can be seen
This will remove the help the cs gives and Real Merching will start.
I know it is rustic and basic but this is how i would like it to be.
Fauksuras
02-25-2014, 02:59 AM
The art of merching is just like fighting a boss, the seller or buyer, trying to reach a goal, the item or gold, with minimum deaths possible, profit loss.
So if it were for me i would just eliminate the CS.
(For me it is limitative and makes things super easy to the extent people now want fixed price for items).
Then i will build a self selling system that includes:
1. world chat where everyone can partecipate saying what they want to sell and
2. A banner over your head where you can list the things you want to sell so any map you enter it can be seen
This will remove the help the cs gives and Real Merching will start.
I know it is rustic and basic but this is how i would like it to be.
Really? People want good fast (which is how many merchers get by in the first place snatching deals) and a basic guideline of what their item is worth so they can go back to farming not a Stock Exchange sim.
MoloToha
02-26-2014, 01:29 PM
The problem is that merching is the only way to get gold without opening over 9000 crates. Farming can only give a starter fund for players to start merching with expensive things. A nice alternative way to farm gold is to buy an empty mythic (with a starter fund received by farming), insert gems and sell it 700k more expensive. But it requires patience, you need a couple of weeks to get all 3 grand gems without any platinum. Merching gives much faster profit. That's why Paradise Pier is full of noob merches who want to earn lots of gold easily and start flaming just after you try to sell an item for it's normal (close to CS) price. Only few merches ask politely and don't rip off...
bossqsorc
02-26-2014, 02:30 PM
I could also say the same thing for expecting obscene prices like 26m for a vanity and wondering why the rich won't pay. O_O
Actually, 26m Jester vanity was overpriced too Zeus XD
I Want Platinum! ♥
Actually, 26m Jester vanity was overpriced too Zeus XD
I Want Platinum! ♥
I know it was, that was my point, lol. I personally sold mine for 17.5m. I'm a merch, yes, but I like giving people good deals and not ripping them off entirely.
bossqsorc
02-26-2014, 02:58 PM
I know it was, that was my point, lol. I personally sold mine for 17.5m. I'm a merch, yes, but I like giving people good deals and not ripping them off entirely.
If i have jester don't care what they offers 11-15m i just need hammerjaw and done lawl.
I Want Platinum! ♥