Very Disappointed

[Straticus]

I've been thinking about the best way to frame this, but I keep coming back to the same verbage, so I'm just going to speak my mind. I've been playing MMOs for a very long time; from EverQuest 1 to every single MMO since. In all of these games, if one worked hard, one could find the very best gear through drops. I don't really even mind the new genre of game, the "free to play" with in app purchasing. In this particular game, which I must hasten to say, I really love and enjoy playing, I have a HUGE issue that at end game, white crap gear drops off mobs with no hint of decent end game gear. Why? Because Spacetime understands what true greed means. They know we spend sometimes large amounts of money to unlock crates that have the lowest margin of possibility of containing myth gear. How does this impact us and the game? First and most obviously, it impacts us financially. Second and more subtly, many groups simply don't want to group with players who aren't fully geared in myth. You'll still get your plat and gold purchase from lower and mid level players who need to upgrade their gear.

I'm in a very good guild, in fact, the number 1 guild on the server. Most of the members are very cool and very fun and I have no complaints about them, or the way we treat one another. But no matter how good a player you are, generally you can't get into groups that would help us progress simply because we aren't fully mythed out.

Spacetime, people are STILL going to be purchasing plat and gold. So my question to you is why would you set up such a player unfriendly environment where tough elite mobs will NEVER drop myth gear? What would it cost you give us end game players the opportunity to get our myth dropped, instead of having to spend millions of gold to get something I'd prefer to earn rather than pay for? This is nothing but a pure money sink, and I find it offensive and remarkably greedy. I honestly suggest that you take a moment to rethink this situation and create an area or an instanced dungeon that's as difficult as you want to make it, so that we have the opportunity to earn our drops? This can only help you in terms of both customer service and customer loyalty. I'd love to have a response to this question, as I'm clearly not the only player who feels this way. I eagerly look forward to hearing a meaningful answer to these questions. Thanks for listening.

Straticus, 36 mage
Vulgarus, 36 rogue
Stratbruiser, 36 warrior

[Anarchist]

Actually there is a way to earn myths and arcanes instead of paying for them via gold or plat.
Farm elites loot golden chests and open them. It is hard but not impossible.

Dropping myths directly from a elite boss is a 1 barrier and it would be the simplest way to earn myth/arcane.
The loot was made with a 2 barrier: you drop elite chests then you loot myths/arcanes from them.

It could even have been worse with a 3 barrier system: you loot elite chests drop recipes from them and with X recipes create a mythic item.
Or even a 4 barrier[....]


Sadly i must say it's true that people do "descriminate" you if you look "noobish", NOT ALL but a lot of players look at gear first then at the fact if you know how to play and your personality, i fully agree on this.

For example today at KM3 some players kept asking for mythic rogue and mage for their party waiting and waiting while their elixirs were running out...even though right in front of them there were undergeared legendary mages and rogues asking for party they didn't pick them.


AL is difficult to play without popping crates especially if you lunge for the desire of wearing mythics and arcanes but that's exactly what should keep you playing hard...the desire to become stonger, growing day by day and overcoming the obstacles on your way.


Ps: A high percentage of players with myths/arcane don't even know how to play their toon, they pooped crates at their early stages and got lucky.
If you know how to play and i think you know how to play this game, you are miles away from them and have nothing to be disappointed about :)

[xcainnblecterx]

You'll probably get alot of hate for this thread nd hear the obvious "sts needs to feed theor familes" thing. Yes sts needs to feed themselves and keep a company goin but i do agree with you that this is a greedy game along with the Battle games. How many times ive heard people rant and rave they spent thousands of actual dollars on this game to get nothing is to numerous to count. Thats thousands, not hundreds, not 20 or so dollars. Top that with how many players are actually dropping the much of money on crates alone just shows that why should sts let best gear be dropped any more. Thats what drove me from this game, the fact the lucky can get fully geared but there is no feeling of reward to being lucky to me

[Ihateppl]

well now I wanna hunt you down straticus. NO ONE TALKS TO MY H2N LIKE THAT *****************!!!!!!!!!

[Hiosahaf]

well now I wanna hunt you down straticus. NO ONE TALKS TO MY H2N LIKE THAT *****************!!!!!!!!!

You didn't even complete his profile on hipstershaadi.com :p "my H2N".. huh! :D

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk

[Samhayne]

We hear ya.

In the Dragon Enclave expansion, we are working toward a token system for the Crafting component of the Arcane Ring. Bosses will have a rare chance to drop Teeth currency that you'll need to get the recipe for the Arcane Ring. You'll still need to get your hands on an Arcane Shard that drops from a Locked Crate, but that shard can be used toward whatever Arcane item you want to craft. More at http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?139349-Developing-Story-Arcane-Shards-Discovered-in-Mount-Rockhorn!

I have always been a fan of token systems. Other MMORPGs put them to good use. They allow you to have continual progress toward an item. It might take a while to get there, but you can see the path to what you want, rather than just if you get lucky. We still have a lot of work to do to flesh the system out and need to see how well it is received, but I believe it is a step in the direction you are interested in seeing the game go.

Warm regards,
Samhayne

[FluffNStuff]

Your post seems genuine, and you don't seem jealous of the players that are able to get there faster by opening crates, so I have to wonder if you just don't know that these drop CAN be gotten through the game. While yes, they do not DROP off of elite MOBS, ELITE GOLD CHESTS do drop off of Elite Bosses. These Elite Gold Chests do contain Mythics AND Arcane items (I got a Mythic Fang from an Elite Golden Puzzle Box yesterday) so there are indeed ways players can get the items without paying the plat or opening the locked crates. I personally do not like that they drop from the boxes and not directly from the bosses, but luck elixirs have no effect on what you get when you open a box so they are better able to keep the rates under control.

[Impact]

well now I wanna hunt you down straticus. NO ONE TALKS TO MY H2N LIKE THAT *****************!!!!!!!!!
Lmao but arcane legends isn't "greedy" sure it cost lots of money, but think about how much money it takes to make the game itself including paying the people working for the company, and they're just taking advantage of their amazing game making skills and the popularity of the game, wanna see a greedy company? Check out Gameloft(although the rip off copies are fun) But sts is doing its best to survive and live in the mmorpg company, Imo, I think sts should n't abandon all their other "legends" games, the new "battle" games aren't a original idea hence I don't play them.
In conclusion, dont blame sts if u dont like these games best you dont play them, Ive never spent a penny for arcane legends and I can compete with Mythics and Arcanes.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

Well it's too late to do anything the economy in arcane legends is already flowing. Allowing mythics to be dropped would decrease their value into the legendary category and many of those who earned their mythic though farming will be very unhappy if they become obtained directly.
However I don't disagree it's just that it's too late to do anything.

EDIT: imagine if did happen how much harder would the The Midas Touch ap would be to get. :)

[Rare]

You'll still need to get your hands on an Arcane Shard that drops from a Locked Crate, but that shard can be used toward whatever Arcane item you want to craft. More at http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?139349-Developing-Story-Arcane-Shards-Discovered-in-Mount-Rockhorn!


Hey Sam. Do you mean it will be this way or that it's still just a possibility?

[stackz]

Goes back to wanting it all instantly. Mmorpgs are either pay monthly or pay in game. But sets games you can get everything you want free.

Took me a while to realize it.

You farm farm farm
.....and then farm some more

Locks goes for 10-12k in bad times and double that in good times. Good gear that sells nicely drops from elites...and elite chests drop myth/arcane...that's why they cost so much.

Then there events and seasons and discontinued gear/vanities/gems (well now) to buy/sell/trade. You just have to hold it till it gets rarer.

Soon to be arcane shards (can't wait to see how expensive they go for lol) that are tradable. It goes on and on you just don't see the forest for the trees. Patience and farming and merching smartly can get you a huge bankroll.

I remember when locks first came out. They sold for 150 gold in auction. Then announcement that mythic pet was going to be in them and they went CRAZY. Some people who hoarded them at stupid cheap prices made out like kings that day I tell you

[Warlord0520]

I've been thinking about the best way to frame this, but I keep coming back to the same verbage, so I'm just going to speak my mind. I've been playing MMOs for a very long time; from EverQuest 1 to every single MMO since. In all of these games, if one worked hard, one could find the very best gear through drops. I don't really even mind the new genre of game, the "free to play" with in app purchasing. In this particular game, which I must hasten to say, I really love and enjoy playing, I have a HUGE issue that at end game, white crap gear drops off mobs with no hint of decent end game gear. Why? Because Spacetime understands what true greed means. They know we spend sometimes large amounts of money to unlock crates that have the lowest margin of possibility of containing myth gear. How does this impact us and the game? First and most obviously, it impacts us financially. Second and more subtly, many groups simply don't want to group with players who aren't fully geared in myth. You'll still get your plat and gold purchase from lower and mid level players who need to upgrade their gear.

I'm in a very good guild, in fact, the number 1 guild on the server. Most of the members are very cool and very fun and I have no complaints about them, or the way we treat one another. But no matter how good a player you are, generally you can't get into groups that would help us progress simply because we aren't fully mythed out.

Spacetime, people are STILL going to be purchasing plat and gold. So my question to you is why would you set up such a player unfriendly environment where tough elite mobs will NEVER drop myth gear? What would it cost you give us end game players the opportunity to get our myth dropped, instead of having to spend millions of gold to get something I'd prefer to earn rather than pay for? This is nothing but a pure money sink, and I find it offensive and remarkably greedy. I honestly suggest that you take a moment to rethink this situation and create an area or an instanced dungeon that's as difficult as you want to make it, so that we have the opportunity to earn our drops? This can only help you in terms of both customer service and customer loyalty. I'd love to have a response to this question, as I'm clearly not the only player who feels this way. I eagerly look forward to hearing a meaningful answer to these questions. Thanks for listening.

Straticus, 36 mage
Vulgarus, 36 rogue
Stratbruiser, 36 warrior

I get what your saying, but if you think this is bad, in DL the first week the game came out it REQUIRED energy to even step into a dungeon. Yes, it required energy to even attack mobs to get a few points to level up, so one would only be able to play 3 dungeons per hour/hours. So a week from then they decided to change it, maybe this will happen but i agree 100% with what you are saying, thats why i dont play end game content on most mmo's i normally prefer to twink out characters.

[falmear]

The game doesn't really favor farming. Because everything in the game declines in value over time. There are brief periods of where the value for items is very high. The price of most items have no basis on performance but rarity. But as more of these items come on the market the price quickly declines. We are coming up on a period where farming will be profitable again. So you should try to get to the next level cap as fast as possible and farm elites. Because new elite golden chests during this time can sell for 200-300k or more. Also new gear which drops from elite bosses can be 1-2m. In the mean time just farm for locked crates in brackenridge/jarl, gold mine or km3. Farming anything else at this time is a waste of time with the possible exception of some eggs.

You don't need to open any chests or crates to advance. Just sell everything you farm, but you have to farm at the right times and potentially sell at the right times. Also you can do some merching to help earn some extra gold.

[Straticus]

All of your responses are fair enough, and I respect the time taken to address my points of view. I've had literally hundreds of elite gold chests drop for me, and end up getting worthless pink drops that are considerably worse than my current gear, or gear that would net me nothing in the AH. I am not a jealous, foolish, or greedy man. In fact, I spend a great deal of time running youngsters through their zones or quests simply because I enjoy helping them progress. I don't want to have to rely on luck alone. I want to work hard to achieve my goals by raiding and taking down hard elite bosses to EARN my gear. That's my entire point here. Relying on getting lucky on getting the right crate or chest doesn't work for me, because then you end up with players geared up who haven't the slightest idea about how to play their classes, and end up getting you killed. If I had a dollar for every Mage who has told me that dropping well placed clocks for CC was a complete waste of skill points, not only would I have full myth, but with plenty of cash left over. Don't minimize this point either please, as knowing what role your toon plays is critical. Then you have tanks who have no clue that their role is NOT as a dps class, but rather a taunter to keep mobs on them, so that the dps and rdps classes can burn the mobs down quickly. I know many warriors who think that having their AC as high as possible regardless of their dps and damage is ridiculous, and take no taunting skills or put skill points into taunting. Would any of you group with players like this even if they had the best gear in the game? I sure as hell won't, and don't. I just want to be able to earn my gear, and don't understand why this has been made so difficult to achieve. And Sam, I really thank you sincerely for your prompt and honest response to my post. It's good to know that a long time and loyal member of the STS family has been heard :). I have maxed out toons in your other games as well, and really do find the brand top notch. Just please at least consider having the teeth and shards drop, rather than merely being lucky enough to find one after spending a lot of cash opening crates :). Thanks again for your response.

[Roberto077]

Actually there is a way to earn myths and arcanes instead of paying for them via gold or plat.
Farm elites loot golden chests and open them. It is hard but not impossible.

Dropping myths directly from a elite boss is a 1 barrier and it would be the simplest way to earn myth/arcane.
The loot was made with a 2 barrier: you drop elite chests then you loot myths/arcanes from them.

It could even have been worse with a 3 barrier system: you loot elite chests drop receipes from them and with X receips creat a mythic item.
Or even a 4 barrier[....]


Sadly i must say it's true that people do "descriminate" you if look "noobish" NOT ALL but a part of players look at gear first then at the fact if you know how to play and your personality, i fully agree on this.

For example today at KM3 some players kept asking for mythic rogue and mage for their party while waiting and waiting while their elixirs where running out...even though there where undergeared legendary mages and rogues they chosed not to pick them.


AL is difficult to play without popping crates especially if you lunge for the desire of wearing mythics and arcanes but that's exactly what should keep you playing hard...the desire to become stonger, growing day by day and overcoming the obstacles on your way.


Ps: A high percentage of players with myths/arcane don't even know how to play their toon, they pooped crates at their early stages and got lucky.
If you know how to play and i think you know how to play this game, you are miles away from them and have nothing to be disappointed about :)

You have... let's say a 10% chance to get an Elite Golden Chest from a boss, now you have to take in consideration the percent chance that you get a mythic from the chest, which is lower than the chance in a locked crate, mythic percent... let's say 1%

Now let's say you do 10000 runs, that's 1000 chests, and then 1% chance of getting a mythic is 10 mythics per 10000 runs. Now let's take crates which can't be dropped from Elite Chests. 5% rate for crates, 10000*.05=500*.02=10 which is the same exact chance as Elite Chests considering rarity of the drop from an Elite Boss. Essentially, you can farm crates a ton faster or you can run elites and get the same chance as simply getting a locked crate from the boss and opening it.

Let's take a look at arcanes. Let's say arcanes have a drop rate of .1% (in locked crates). 10000*.05=500*.001=5 arcanes per 10000 runs of Elite missions.
(these are all estimations and still probably greater than the real values, plus luck is always a factor)

Long story short, they would rather have you run KM3 and use tons of plat or you could waste your time running elites for a relatively close chance between both chests.

P.S. farming 100 crates is 1m, so farming those is always an option

[Straticus]

Huh?????? Guess you didn't read my post well enough, or you're just joking. Don't know you, so I can't tell :)

[stackz]

All I know is OP has had hundreds of elite gold chests....and opened them all. There's the first mistake. Let someone else take that chance, you take the gold.

Even at the median value of 30k/elite gold chest in the three lvls they are in now...100 chests is 3million gold. That's enough for at least one mythic armor.

And that's just if you had those chests at today's value....its not hard. You just have to resist urge to open, let some other gambler do that

[Solid]

We hear ya.

In the Dragon Enclave expansion, we are working toward a token system for the Crafting component of the Arcane Ring. Bosses will have a rare chance to drop Teeth currency that you'll need to get the recipe for the Arcane Ring. You'll still need to get your hands on an Arcane Shard that drops from a Locked Crate, but that shard can be used toward whatever Arcane item you want to craft. More at http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?139349-Developing-Story-Arcane-Shards-Discovered-in-Mount-Rockhorn!

I have always been a fan of token systems. Other MMORPGs put them to good use. They allow you to have continual progress toward an item. It might take a while to get there, but you can see the path to what you want, rather than just if you get lucky. We still have a lot of work to do to flesh the system out and need to see how well it is received, but I believe it is a step in the direction you are interested in seeing the game go.

Warm regards,
Samhayne

OK I am very confused right now. You said in the other thread that initially only the ring will be available for crafting with the arcane shard.

And in This thread, you make it sound like all the arcanes will be craftable. Which thread do I believe?

Please clear this up for us...

[Samhayne]

OK I am very confused right now. You said in the other thread that initially only the ring will be available for crafting with the arcane shard.

And in This thread, you make it sound like all the arcanes will be craftable. Which thread do I believe?

Please clear this up for us...

Depending on how things go with the Ring, we may make other Arcane or Mythic rarity items craftable. The key word is "may". Only the ring is currently implemented to involve crafting.

The misty veil of the future hides what may be...

[Solid]

Depending on how things go with the Ring, we may make other Arcane or Mythic rarity items craftable. The key word is "may". Only the ring is currently implemented to involve crafting.

The misty veil of the future hides what may be...

Thanks for the speedy response!

[Anarchist]

Depending on how things go with the Ring, we may make other Arcane or Mythic rarity items craftable. The key word is "may". Only the ring is currently implemented to involve crafting.

The misty veil of the future hides what may be...

*Looks in his logic crystal ball*

If you do it for 1 and it works out ( why shouldn't it even work out? i mean if the devs make everything in order for it to work out and that is what they will do considering pros and cons it will work out for sure) then this system is probably going to be added to the other mythic/arcane rarity items for sure.

[chitgoks]

lol the goal for a business is to reap profits. so greed will always be there

[Kakashis]

Depending on how things go with the Ring, we may make other Arcane or Mythic rarity items craftable. The key word is "may". Only the ring is currently implemented to involve crafting.

The misty veil of the future hides what may be...

Then it's in everyone's best interest to not craft out a ring yet!

[GoodSyntax]

Hey Strat, it's been a while since we used to run together (about two seasons now), but if you ever need help farming any elite map, give me a shout and a party invite and I'll be happy to help you!

<3 Kalizzaa

[GoodSyntax]

And, as far as the scaled dungeon goes, I really like the idea, provided that the reward for the time and pot investment is suitable.

Frankly, I really should not be able to solo every elite map, let alone multiple times without too much drama. I've been able to run elite Inan solo consistently at 8 mins or so with a single plat revive, or around 12 minutes without a revivie. I have been asking for elite maps to be, for lack of a better word, more elite for a while now. With the supreme challenge should come supreme loot at a far better drop rate. On any given day, I will run anywhere from 30-50 elite maps, and most days, the best I have to show for it may be an EGP or two, which considering I'm blowing through about 3-4k pots per day, means I am lucky to break even most of the time.

I would really love to see a Master level setting for maps, where even the best parties may only be able to complete it at a 30% success rate. With the odds stacked so far against you, the drops should bevoutstanding - something with an average value of 300-500k, and the possibility of a Mythic or Arcane drop (perhaps at 5% and 1% respectively). I don't want to loot a Locked Crate on this map either. I want elite drops with a 100% drop rate because if the map is so challenging that the best parties will fail 7 times out of 10, then we should be rewarded when we succeed. I would also like these maps to disallow elixirs, since that adds to the challenge.

I had extremely high hopes that Undim Fields was going to be that map, and it still has potential, but the way it currently stands, it's not quite there. I'm picturing something where mob aggro range is doubled or tripled, mob density is roughly double and we could sprinkle in two or three random "normal" elite bosses that spawn either before the "Master" spawns, or during the fight with the "Master." Not for nothing, I would also like to see a "Master" that is tough to deal with. Strong like Truell, but faster and far more aggressive. There is something about grinding 10 minutes through a long run to the boss and then having a minute and a half fight that is a bit anti-climatic.

Furthermore, I would like the "Master" levels to be locked so that you can only access them once you have completed all Elite maps.

I think that this would provide a suitable avenue for the pro free players out there to be truly challenged, and provide a solid source of income so they can actually afford arcane gear and pets. As much as I would love to own a set of Razors, or Samael/Singe, 30-40 million seems so far out of reach for me, and I've had absolutely no luck popping crates. Give us a means to attain the best without buying our way into it, just getting lucky or spending most of our game time merching. This game is desperately missing incentive and reward for being skilled, and tactical and I think that this would be a means to that end.

[Limsi]

Spacetime Studios,

Give us a hard dungeon wherein not even a full arcane/mythic party can complete without a good strategy. What we wanna see would be a mix of players (legendary+mythic+arcane) who can finally come together as one with a unique strategy. Please give us a dungeon where it takes more than spamming pots to survive a wave. Remember when it took 30 mins to finish Bael back in season 1? Something along those lines would be appreciated.

As for the drops, please make the best drops available through bosses. I am selfish I know but it seems to me that those who farm hard never even get what they long for. Make the legendaries be better than the crate gear (pink) The Arcane Shard is a start and I must say i am indeed pleased with the decision!

[Roberto077]

I suggest people look up the laws of The Shadow Lairs in a game called Spiral Knights. They are a series of maps that grant you access (for each map beaten) to a place called Sanctuary where you can craft/get the best sets in the game. There is no luck involved in this, only skill.

[Limsi]

I suggest people look up the laws of The Shadow Lairs in a game called Spiral Knights. They are a series of maps that grant you access (for each map beaten) to a place called Sanctuary where you can craft/get the best sets in the game. There is no luck involved in this, only skill.

Omg definitely! + 10. Ran out of thanks sigh

[Roberto077]

Omg definitely! + 10. Ran out of thanks sigh

I still can't get over how little the game is based on luck. It's all running dungeons for money and then crafting increasingly power items to fight stronger enemies.

For those of you not familiar with what I'm talking about, this is the passage between the Shadow Lair and Sanctuary: http://youtu.be/7IZ1q4Gb2Vc

I was using crappy gear because I could. My teammates were using what is considered to be the best gear in the game.

[Anarchist]

And, as far as the scaled dungeon goes, I really like the idea, provided that the reward for the time and pot investment is suitable.

Frankly, I really should not be able to solo every elite map, let alone multiple times without too much drama. I've been able to run elite Inan solo consistently at 8 mins or so with a single plat revive, or around 12 minutes without a revivie. I have been asking for elite maps to be, for lack of a better word, more elite for a while now. With the supreme challenge should come supreme loot at a far better drop rate. On any given day, I will run anywhere from 30-50 elite maps, and most days, the best I have to show for it may be an EGP or two, which considering I'm blowing through about 3-4k pots per day, means I am lucky to break even most of the time.

I would really love to see a Master level setting for maps, where even the best parties may only be able to complete it at a 30% success rate. With the odds stacked so far against you, the drops should bevoutstanding - something with an average value of 300-500k, and the possibility of a Mythic or Arcane drop (perhaps at 5% and 1% respectively). I don't want to loot a Locked Crate on this map either. I want elite drops with a 100% drop rate because if the map is so challenging that the best parties will fail 7 times out of 10, then we should be rewarded when we succeed. I would also like these maps to disallow elixirs, since that adds to the challenge.

I had extremely high hopes that Undim Fields was going to be that map, and it still has potential, but the way it currently stands, it's not quite there. I'm picturing something where mob aggro range is doubled or tripled, mob density is roughly double and we could sprinkle in two or three random "normal" elite bosses that spawn either before the "Master" spawns, or during the fight with the "Master." Not for nothing, I would also like to see a "Master" that is tough to deal with. Strong like Truell, but faster and far more aggressive. There is something about grinding 10 minutes through a long run to the boss and then having a minute and a half fight that is a bit anti-climatic.

Furthermore, I would like the "Master" levels to be locked so that you can only access them once you have completed all Elite maps.

I think that this would provide a suitable avenue for the pro free players out there to be truly challenged, and provide a solid source of income so they can actually afford arcane gear and pets. As much as I would love to own a set of Razors, or Samael/Singe, 30-40 million seems so far out of reach for me, and I've had absolutely no luck popping crates. Give us a means to attain the best without buying our way into it, just getting lucky or spending most of our game time merching. This game is desperately missing incentive and reward for being skilled, and tactical and I think that this would be a means to that end.




Eh... from a mythic player point of view "hard extremely difficult maps even for mythics and arcanes but not that impossible cause if no one can complete it what is it usefulness?" seems to be exciting....

But from a legendary player point of view you are describing me Hell fire.


The current system aren't that bad actually now that i think about it, all we need is fresh goods to reactivate the market.. and they are coming mid march.

[falmear]

In the Dragon Enclave expansion, we are working toward a token system for the Crafting component of the Arcane Ring. Bosses will have a rare chance to drop Teeth currency that you'll need to get the recipe for the Arcane Ring. You'll still need to get your hands on an Arcane Shard that drops from a Locked Crate, but that shard can be used toward whatever Arcane item you want to craft. More at http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?139349-Developing-Story-Arcane-Shards-Discovered-in-Mount-Rockhorn!


While this sounds good in theory, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Because how arcane items have been created. Whoever makes an Arcane Shard will craft the most expensive arcane item then sell it. But use the proceeds to buy the arcane then want and pocket the proceeds. No different then if they could only craft an arcane ring. If we had multiple arcane items of the same level then this would make more sense but we don't. What we have is a situation where we have one arcane item for lvl 26,31,36,41. Whats the point of crafting a level 26 arcane item? You can craft a level 41 item, sell for lets say 50 million. And buy 4 or 5 hooks. So I don't really see the benefit. Seems like a nice to have but in no way will help anyone now or in the future.

[Fyrce]

I like the Token systems. I hope arcane shards will also come from Elite Golden <whatever the new chests are called> and not just the Locked Crates.

In addition, I would still love if the Elite Maps were not just end game but graduated end game: So the maps up to Dead City can be run by L16+. Kraken by L21+. And so on, since they might be easy for an L36, but not so for the elite levels for which they were intended.

[Haligali]

I like the Token systems. I hope arcane shards will also come from Elite Golden <whatever the new chests are called> and not just the Locked Crates.

In addition, I would still love if the Elite Maps were not just end game but graduated end game: So the maps up to Dead City can be run by L16+. Kraken by L21+. And so on, since they might be easy for an L36, but not so for the elite levels for which they were intended.

An elite rooks would be hard for a lvl16, because brackenridge and ydra scaled to lvl25.

But the idea is not bad, lvl25 could enter elite brackenridge&ydra, lvl30 could enter elite dead city&kraken.

[Foebegone]

While this sounds good in theory, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Because how arcane items have been created. Whoever makes an Arcane Shard will craft the most expensive arcane item then sell it. But use the proceeds to buy the arcane then want and pocket the proceeds. No different then if they could only craft an arcane ring. If we had multiple arcane items of the same level then this would make more sense but we don't. What we have is a situation where we have one arcane item for lvl 26,31,36,41. Whats the point of crafting a level 26 arcane item? You can craft a level 41 item, sell for lets say 50 million. And buy 4 or 5 hooks. So I don't really see the benefit. Seems like a nice to have but in no way will help anyone now or in the future.

And that would be awesome right :) you just looted ARCANE!!! and its not HOOKS!!! yay ;p the market would adjust if ppl were never making hooks or the other items not saying for the better, everyone would make rings, then there would be a shortage of the others meaning prices fall slower. Personally I would like to see things costing a number of shards, say 10 then recipes can be reduced by season say by 2 shards down to a cost of 6. Even the possibility to disenchant to get half the shards back would be nice. This would lead to a more true token system as progression will be toward the shard cost and not be measured on how close you are to the recipe and a single luck drop.

On topic:

Farming elites in shayul is still profitable and with mythic set under 3 mil now quite achievable with no real money. the chests still go for a good price and you get the occasional Arc stuff which has a decent market value still.

[Roberto077]

Of course you're going to require locked crates... Please make them drop from elite bosses with the same if not greater looting rate.

[GoodSyntax]

Eh... from a mythic player point of view "hard extremely difficult maps even for mythics and arcanes but not that impossible cause if no one can complete it what is it usefulness?" seems to be exciting....

But from a legendary player point of view you are describing me Hell fire.


The current system aren't that bad actually now that i think about it, all we need is fresh goods to reactivate the market.. and they are coming mid march.

I disagree because a considerable percentage of the population in my guild are dying for something way more challenging than running Elite Undim and getting lucky with two Kroms.

I soloed all elite maps in full Legendary gear (albeit Elite Legendary items), so what I'm asking for isn't really that absurd.

And yes, Hell Fire would be appropriate here because it isn't all that elite if the majority of the capped population has every elite AP. I don't think it's unreasonable to want something more demanding on your skill and party strategy than what we currently have.

Truell is probably the most difficult, non luck based AP at this point because it takes skill and good teamwork to pull it off - and you can't cheat the system by having everyone run with Combo elixirs and spamming Samael AA.

[MoloToha]

Originally, AL was designed to be a pocket game in which instances take max 20-30 mins to complete, so, I think, you all shouldn't blame devs for easy elites. They see that there is a lot of hardcore players, so, I think, they will satisfy their wishes soon.

Talking about mythics, I have a good example which I heard from another guy at forum. In PL there is a Dragon armor. Some time ago it costed tens of millions. Then devs made it re-rollable, so it's price dropped under 2m. Of course, everybody wants to loot a mythic/arcane item, but if it all goes in that way, mythic will no longer be "mythic". Imagine that there is a hard map which takes 1h to complete, and boss has 1% chance of getting mythic item (just like most of players suggest). Then let's imagine that there are 1000 players who are strong enough to complete this map in 1h. During the day, they log in and make 2-3 runs (someone even more). It means that wheel of fate rolled 2000-3000 times. That is 20-30 mythics. 20-30 mythics per day means that they will become trash in a couple of weeks.

[GoodSyntax]

As opposed to the thousands of Locked Crates and Elite Goldens being opened every day?

The reason why the PL economy failed is because reroll mechanics always looted an item one level up in rarity (ie., Elite becomes Legendary) coupled with 100% reroll elixirs and Shamus/Thrasher elixirs. This meant that you cut down the run time by 50% and the worst possible loot you could get was an Epic rarity, and Legendaries would drop 30-50% of the time. AL does not have the same reroll mechanics and does not have such cheap listing fees to auction, so value degredation is not as much of a concern. Over in PL, junk items (and by junk, I literally mean junk Commons) sold for 7-10k and liquidated for 150g, so the valuation of the gold currency is not indicative to what we should expect here.

I would wager that AL does see 20-30 mythics created per day, and I personally know many players who have dozens of mythics (eggs, weapons, armor, etc.) in inventory and stash.

Finally, you assume that people would just farm this type of map to death. I didn't know that many farming parties for Elite Skull Cove when it was the baddest, most challenging map around. Actually, just putting together a Cove run was difficult, as was Rooks Nest when that was the worst of the worst (pre-nerf of course). Runs there took 40-60 minutes for a solid party, and most who completed it, did so once, never to return again. If an uber map is that challenging, it is nothing more than a gold/platinum sink (via pot expenditure and revives) for those that enjoy tough runs - I don't think that thousands of players will be lining up for a 60 minute long run that consumes thousands of pots for the <1% chance at a mythic; it would be easier and more cost effective to just pop crates.

[Limsi]

As opposed to the thousands of Locked Crates and Elite Goldens being opened every day?

The reason why the PL economy failed is because reroll mechanics always looted an item one level up in rarity (ie., Elite becomes Legendary) coupled with 100% reroll elixirs and Shamus/Thrasher elixirs. This meant that you cut down the run time by 50% and the worst possible loot you could get was an Epic rarity, and Legendaries would drop 30-50% of the time. AL does not have the same reroll mechanics and does not have such cheap listing fees to auction, so value degredation is not as much of a concern. Over in PL, junk items (and by junk, I literally mean junk Commons) sold for 7-10k and liquidated for 150g, so the valuation of the gold currency is not indicative to what we should expect here.

I would wager that AL does see 20-30 mythics created per day, and I personally know many players who have dozens of mythics (eggs, weapons, armor, etc.) in inventory and stash.

Finally, you assume that people would just farm this type of map to death. I didn't know that many farming parties for Elite Skull Cove when it was the baddest, most challenging map around. Actually, just putting together a Cove run was difficult, as was Rooks Nest when that was the worst of the worst (pre-nerf of course). Runs there took 40-60 minutes for a solid party, and most who completed it, did so once, never to return again. If an uber map is that challenging, it is nothing more than a gold/platinum sink (via pot expenditure and revives) for those that enjoy tough runs - I don't think that thousands of players will be lining up for a 60 minute long run that consumes thousands of pots for the <1% chance at a mythic; it would be easier and more cost effective to just pop crates.

Exactly my point. I don't recall a lot of parties even trying to kill Elite Bloodhammer/Bael (Pre-nerf) if it wasn't for A.P. Those who ran in hoping to loot the Kraken Skewer would find it very impossible to form a party just by waiting for PUGS. Remember when malison was worth 700-1m + way before the nerf was conducted? - Pure heaven for hardworking players as opposed to those who simply pop up crates.

While I understand the never dying "STG is a business which needs to run through fundings", there's no harm in even trying to reward those who would prefer the good ole' almost impossible farming. These are the types of dungeons which will separate those who play casually and would see the game as a past time killer and those who spend time to sit down and get all fired up with some hardcore farming. While we have the elite golden chests to provide non spenders with mythic and arcane items, it's still a different feeling of having to loot what we want directly after killing a boss.

Opening chests are no different from opening crates - both are considered as gambling.

[MoloToha]

As opposed to the thousands of Locked Crates and Elite Goldens being opened every day?

The reason why the PL economy failed is because reroll mechanics always looted an item one level up in rarity (ie., Elite becomes Legendary) coupled with 100% reroll elixirs and Shamus/Thrasher elixirs. This meant that you cut down the run time by 50% and the worst possible loot you could get was an Epic rarity, and Legendaries would drop 30-50% of the time. AL does not have the same reroll mechanics and does not have such cheap listing fees to auction, so value degredation is not as much of a concern. Over in PL, junk items (and by junk, I literally mean junk Commons) sold for 7-10k and liquidated for 150g, so the valuation of the gold currency is not indicative to what we should expect here.

I would wager that AL does see 20-30 mythics created per day, and I personally know many players who have dozens of mythics (eggs, weapons, armor, etc.) in inventory and stash.

Finally, you assume that people would just farm this type of map to death. I didn't know that many farming parties for Elite Skull Cove when it was the baddest, most challenging map around. Actually, just putting together a Cove run was difficult, as was Rooks Nest when that was the worst of the worst (pre-nerf of course). Runs there took 40-60 minutes for a solid party, and most who completed it, did so once, never to return again. If an uber map is that challenging, it is nothing more than a gold/platinum sink (via pot expenditure and revives) for those that enjoy tough runs - I don't think that thousands of players will be lining up for a 60 minute long run that consumes thousands of pots for the <1% chance at a mythic; it would be easier and more cost effective to just pop crates.

PL was just an example of how items drop in price once their drop rate is increased, there is no need to dive into re-roll mechanics of PL, etc. Skull Cove, huh? Who needs a junk armor with stats, equal to Sealord one and a staff which drops at 1/100500 rate? Bad example. People ran it just to show how badass they are (The same thing with Hall of Valheim). And who says that a hard map should drop only mythics at a miserable chance? There will be more various loot table, and there will be items, which can compensate pots and plat spent in battle. You reduce all to lockeds. All you say is just a typical locked spammer logic.

[GoodSyntax]

PL was just an example of how items drop in price once their drop rate is increased, there is no need to dive into re-roll mechanics of PL, etc. Skull Cove, huh? Who needs a junk armor with stats, equal to Sealord one and a staff which drops at 1/100500 rate? Bad example. People ran it just to show how badass they are (The same thing with Hall of Valheim). And who says that a hard map should drop only mythics at a miserable chance? There will be more various loot table, and there will be items, which can compensate pots and plat spent in battle. You reduce all to lockeds. All you say is just a typical locked spammer logic.

That's kind of how a discussion goes - point, counter point.

Your point was how the value of Dragon gear in PL dropped like a stone. My counter point was that the phenomenon was due to PL reroll mechanics, elixirs and monetary valuation.

Your point was uber maps serve no purpose but to degrade value. My counter point was look at Elite Skull Cove and Elite Rooks nest - they actually enhanced value and entertained the hardcore runners.

And now, my counterpoint to you is look at the valuation of Architect Gear, which is this seasons "Elite" Legendary gear. I can't sell them the helm or armor. Shoot, I can barely even give them away. Contrast that with Tarlok gear, which is far superior to Architect. Top end Tarlok gear IS holding value. So, at this moment in time, the only items of value are Arcanes, Mythics, Tarlok and a dozen or so eggs. Even EGP and EGW values have dropped to the point where hardcore farmers cannot derive revenue from loot anymore.

And, people don't run Grimnr, BloodHammer or Inan because they want to show off how badass they are. Some genuinely appreciate the challenge and enjoy building a successful strategy, fastest run, lowest pot consumption etc. Some even enjoy soloing all elite maps because they aren't that difficult. The point is that if you bore the hardcore elite runners (who comprise 3 out of every 4 elite runs), and starve them of a consistent revenue source, then eventually, they will fall out of the AL population. If you don't offer up something suitably challenging, the hardcore players will farm the current crop of elite maps to death and will ultimately flood the market with top end gear. You need look no further than comparing the value delta of items like Architect Quills, Mountain Teeth, Life Thief's, etc. to see this phenomenon.

You are correct that a diverse loot table will help, but a diverse loot table of junk that no one is willing to buy because the stats are inferior to crate gear doesn't help anyone. Look at the value of Shade, Noble and Champion gear. See what the value of Deer Skin Caps and Mystic Knights are. Compare that with crate gear - Devourer bows, Bonechill Vests, Shipmaster and Watchman, they held their value because their stats were about as good as it got, unlike current Legendary gear. If the intent is an expansion of the loot table, then it had better include Legendary gear which people will want and actually use. Because useless gear that in some cases is inferior to Elite and Rare items is useless and just takes up an inventory slot. It's about as desirable as getting a Smelly Helm from the boss when running Elite Ferrix or Overgrowth.

[Solid]

They should add the best items to drop like dark legends relic system...

That relic hammer #_#

[MoloToha]

That's kind of how a discussion goes - point, counter point.

Your point was how the value of Dragon gear in PL dropped like a stone. My counter point was that the phenomenon was due to PL reroll mechanics, elixirs and monetary valuation.

Your point was uber maps serve no purpose but to degrade value. My counter point was look at Elite Skull Cove and Elite Rooks nest - they actually enhanced value and entertained the hardcore runners.

And now, my counterpoint to you is look at the valuation of Architect Gear, which is this seasons "Elite" Legendary gear. I can't sell them the helm or armor. Shoot, I can barely even give them away. Contrast that with Tarlok gear, which is far superior to Architect. Top end Tarlok gear IS holding value. So, at this moment in time, the only items of value are Arcanes, Mythics, Tarlok and a dozen or so eggs. Even EGP and EGW values have dropped to the point where hardcore farmers cannot derive revenue from loot anymore.

And, people don't run Grimnr, BloodHammer or Inan because they want to show off how badass they are. Some genuinely appreciate the challenge and enjoy building a successful strategy, fastest run, lowest pot consumption etc. Some even enjoy soloing all elite maps because they aren't that difficult. The point is that if you bore the hardcore elite runners (who comprise 3 out of every 4 elite runs), and starve them of a consistent revenue source, then eventually, they will fall out of the AL population. If you don't offer up something suitably challenging, the hardcore players will farm the current crop of elite maps to death and will ultimately flood the market with top end gear. You need look no further than comparing the value delta of items like Architect Quills, Mountain Teeth, Life Thief's, etc. to see this phenomenon.

You are correct that a diverse loot table will help, but a diverse loot table of junk that no one is willing to buy because the stats are inferior to crate gear doesn't help anyone. Look at the value of Shade, Noble and Champion gear. See what the value of Deer Skin Caps and Mystic Knights are. Compare that with crate gear - Devourer bows, Bonechill Vests, Shipmaster and Watchman, they held their value because their stats were about as good as it got, unlike current Legendary gear. If the intent is an expansion of the loot table, then it had better include Legendary gear which people will want and actually use. Because useless gear that in some cases is inferior to Elite and Rare items is useless and just takes up an inventory slot. It's about as desirable as getting a Smelly Helm from the boss when running Elite Ferrix or Overgrowth.

Ok, maybe I use incorrect arguments, but my point is that imbalance in loot tables and drop rates can ruin the game by abusing them 24/7 by hardcore farmers (it was a counterpoint to people who are asking for easy-farmable mythics). Like Limsyoker said, there should be a line between casual and hardcore players. Hardcore players farm elite Inan, casual players go to Brackenridge. And every category of players should get worth profit (currently, Brackenridge farmers get more than Inan farmers).

[GoodSyntax]

Ok, maybe I use incorrect arguments, but my point is that imbalance in loot tables and drop rates can ruin the game by abusing them 24/7 by hardcore farmers (it was a counterpoint to people who are asking for easy-farmable mythics). Like Limsyoker said, there should be a line between casual and hardcore players. Hardcore players farm elite Inan, casual players go to Brackenridge. And every category of players should get worth profit (currently, Brackenridge farmers get more than Inan farmers).

I agree. Anyone asking for easy to farm Mythics is nuts. Mythics in the loot table necessitates extreme difficulty, not child's play like an Elite Jarl run. Mythics in a loot table would be something like Elite Undim Fields with three Kroms and an Inanhesh.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[Kjalisi]

The misty veil of the future hides what may be...

Never before have I seen someone make uncertainty sound so epic !!!

I'm genuinely looking forward to the expansion, I can't wait for things to get shaken up again after so long of having the same systems and the same mythics (which don't get me wrong have all been great in their own time) but a game needs to stay interesting and move forward. I'm perfectly happy to have the board reset in terms of mythics, because it gives me something longer term to work towards again and that's what gives the game momentum. This longer term goal which is hopefully attainable but yet just out of reach is essentially what keeps up playing :) How can we enjoy the new direction and the new content if we are just constantly stuck on the old gear. I'm not gonna lie... there is a LOT of gear from the past that I love the look of but for our nostalgia there are vanities... ^_^ Besides not knowing whats going to happen next is fine... that's sometimes just part of the game and if you play the game... you gotta play the game :P