Buffing Arcane Shield

[otb]

Good day STS, I have a suggestion, to address the squishy issues of mages.

Replace the knock back upgrade of arcane shield (which no one uses), to reduce cooldown to 15 seconds upgrade.

That way, there is less gap for us being unprotected. I say "less", and not "no gap" is because the arcane shield's 15 seconds duration (assuming you got the longer duration upgrade), rarely lasts the whole 15 seconds. In normal Shuyal/Tindirin, In elites, in PvP, shield maybe lasts at most 8-10 seconds when mages get the aggro of mobs.

When I recently did elite oltgar, you know the area wherein there's a long run towards the boss? I had to run there alone because i died on the boss area, the shield lasted only 2 seconds i think after the 2 seconds of invulnerability, and I died. Sad to say that I never made it to the boss area back again because I cant do it on my own. I just left the map. sigh.

Warriors have their permanent health and armor, rogues have their permanent dodge and armor, so at least give mages better protection pls.

[Bless]

Pvp perspective: A big no no from me. Shield is already OP as it is. Mages have more survivalility than a warrior. On a mage, I can hardly do more than 600~ dmg non-crit whereas on a warrior I can do about 700+ non-crit. The arcane shield, with the right upgrades can easily triple a mages survivability.

Prove me wrong, but I don't think you'd like it if rogues had their Combat Medic (only heal/survival skill) reduced to 5 seconds, now would you?


Also, the following arguments are quite illogical/conflicting (replies in bold):


Good day STS, I have a suggestion, to address the squishy issues of mages.
I have never played an mmo where the mage has >= armor than the tank or rogue. Fyi, mages have about equal hp to rogues

Replace the knock back upgrade of arcane shield (which no one uses), to reduce cooldown to 15 seconds upgrade.

That way, there is less gap for us being unprotected. So, you want to have the survivabilty of a tank, without any vulnerabilities? I say "less", and not "no gap" is because the arcane shield's 15 seconds duration (assuming you got the longer duration upgrade), rarely lasts the whole 15 seconds. In normal Shuyal/Tindirin, In elites, in PvP, shield maybe lasts at most 8-10 seconds when mages get the aggro of mobs.
Well, the shield absorbs damage, not repels it, so of course it has to be broken. Scorch's shield is the same, it doesnt last for 8 seconds in combat..

When I recently did elite oltgar, you know the area wherein there's a long run towards the boss? I had to run there alone because i died on the boss area, the shield lasted only 2 seconds i think after the 2 seconds of invulnerability, and I died. Sad to say that I never made it to the boss area back again because I cant do it on my own. I just left the map. sigh.
Play with a team, or buy good gear :p

Warriors have their permanent health and armor, rogues have their permanent dodge and armor, so at least give mages better protection pls. Ok. Lets look at this from the pvp perspective.

-Warriors have their permanent hp, armor - THEY DO LOWER DAMAGE - huge tradeoff
-Rogues have dodge and armor - armor? Just 300 more armor. Dodge? Dodge is USELESS in pvp, it does practically NOTHING.
-And whilst mages may have the lowest armor, they have the highest dmg! You want mages to have the best damage, stuns and many more abilities WITH the same armor as warriors? Get real, it's not going to happen.


Rogues, unlike the other two classes has no survivability buffing skill, pretty much. They are vulnerable to 3-4 hits ALL THE TIME, whereas mages are vulnerable to 3 hits, every 15 seconds? Hah!


From reading your situation, I can conclude that instead of asking for buffs when you die (whilst soloing) in elites, you should switch classes to a tank. Reason being, is that you favour survival more than damage.

Good day.
~ Bless

[otb]

Pvp perspective: A big no no from me. Shield is already OP as it is. Mages have more survivalility than a warrior. On a mage, I can hardly do more than 600~ dmg non-crit whereas on a warrior I can do about 700+ non-crit. The arcane shield, with the right upgrades can easily triple a mages survivability.

Prove me wrong, but I don't think you'd like it if rogues had their Combat Medic (only heal/survival skill) reduced to 5 seconds, now would you?


Also, the following arguments are quite illogical/conflicting (replies in bold):



From reading your situation, I can conclude that instead of asking for buffs when you die (whilst soloing) in elites, you should switch classes to a tank. Reason being, is that you favour survival more than damage.

Good day.
~ Bless

In PvP, mages are FAR from being "OP". If the shield in itself is OP for you, then so be it, I'm too lazy to go into details, but the mage as a whole, again, is FAR from being OP. But whatever, I rarely pvp.

Its in the elites that I wished about this a lot. That 20 seconds gap of not having a shield translates into too many deaths for me. Spamming pots doesn't even help. lol.

[otb]

Side note:

Also, STS, by replacing junk skills/skill upgrades with good ones, you could delay the major issue and work that you are facing right now about how characters and skills are already maxed out at L41.

With good skills and skill upgrades, people will be putting points there, instead of just putting it in passives because they ran out of place to spend their skill points in.

There are many skill and skill upgrades in all classes that are useless. rally cry, shadow storm shot, exploding traps, exploding time shift, shield knock back, life giver health and mana regen, etc.

[Bless]

I was saying that Arcane shield is op, not mages.

If you solely pve, shield isnt even useful there, unless you arent maxed. You may need to run with more tanks.

[otb]

I was saying that Arcane shield is op, not mages.

If you solely pve, shield isnt even useful there, unless you arent maxed. You may need to run with more tanks.

..but the mages are the ones using arcane shield sir. :dejection:

Have you ever played a mage? A mage's main problem is survivability. So shield is useful wherever. The problem with shield is that there is a wide gap between active and inactive state. It still leaves a mage very vulnerable even though he has shield in his skills. In elite Nordr and above especially, try dropping a clock in the middle of a mob and the warrior is not holding aggro (warriors cannot hold aggro all the time because their taunt skills have their gaps too). Lets see what happens.

[otb]

Mages have more survivalility than a warrior.

What are you talking about? Whichever way you want to put it, however you want to explain it, this is just not true. lol.

[Hoardseeker]

I'm too Squishy :[

[otb]

unless you arent maxed.

I am not maxed. I'm all pinks actually.

[Hoardseeker]

Pvp perspective: A big no no from me. Shield is already OP as it is. Mages have more survivalility than a warrior. On a mage, I can hardly do more than 600~ dmg non-crit whereas on a warrior I can do about 700+ non-crit. The arcane shield, with the right upgrades can easily triple a mages survivability.

Prove me wrong, but I don't think you'd like it if rogues had their Combat Medic (only heal/survival skill) reduced to 5 seconds, now would you?


Also, the following arguments are quite illogical/conflicting (replies in bold):



From reading your situation, I can conclude that instead of asking for buffs when you die (whilst soloing) in elites, you should switch classes to a tank. Reason being, is that you favour survival more than damage.

Good day.
~ Bless

In PvP, mages are FAR from being "OP". If the shield in itself is OP for you, then so be it, I'm too lazy to go into details, but the mage as a whole, again, is FAR from being OP. But whatever, I rarely pvp.

Its in the elites that I wished about this a lot. That 20 seconds gap of not having a shield translates into too many deaths for me. Spamming pots doesn't even help. lol.

@Bless You can do 600 DMG on Mage with Arcane Shield and 700 DMG on Warrior....


Mage- 3K HP 3000/600= 5Hits= Death
Warrior- 6K HP 6000/700= 8-9Hits= Death

Still Mages are Squishy

[Sceazikua]

LOL no they are not if you know how to play. If you say squishy, rogues have the same hp with only 300 more armor, no shield no absorb no 2sec invulnerability. Give me any rogue in 1v1 with same gear as me (not the ones with maxed out gear) and see how I take out that rogue who doesnt have any skill to increase survivability.
If you say in PvE mages are the squishy because the shield will be broken fast, then dont run into a group of mobs of 10 or more, seriously. Everyone knows how many mobs after the boss-spawn-pull will be left behind in oltgar keep.
EDIT: time bomb is NOT useless. It is really a bomb, useful in both PvE and PvP. If I managed to keep a rogue in the clock, after 10 sec of tick tocking, shes dead.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

Mages are too squishy...
Mages may have the highest damage but.... (It's a big but) this class is at the highest disadvantage. Let's start with pve. The lowest survivability is the main concern... There really is nothing you can do to alter your toon so that you can run to the boss if the aggro from mobs is too much. A simple solution is to pull the mobs to a corner, die and then sneak past (this method does not work sometime and will not work in solo mode).

Now pvp lol. @bless just because the mages have more skills that stuns doesn't mean anything in pvp. Each class can only stun once in 7.5 seconds. But you are right in saying that dodge is next to useless in pvp. Mages have more survivability than a warrior? that is unheard of. Warriors have 4 skills to improve survivability, horn of renew, vengeful blood, juggernaut with rally cry being the weakest. Mages have three, arcane shield, lifegiver and gale (counting the 50% armour upgrade). Rogues have 4 but 2 of which are rarely used in pvp, so shadow pierce (counting the75% chance to 10% self heal), razor shield (avoids movement impairing debuffs I believe this includes stuns + 20% dodge), shadow veil (armour buff (works wonders against curse)) and lastly a rogues best friend, medic. Believe me waiting for the CD on shield in pvp is the most antagonising wait ever. The amount of times rogues rush out to kill me after I've killed them 1v1 is not cool at all.

Btw if you didn't know 300 armour is a lot

[otb]

If you say in PvE mages are the squishy because the shield will be broken fast, then dont run into a group of mobs of 10 or more, seriosuly

You have to run into them when you use clock.

[otb]

And yes, 300 armor is a lot if you dont realize it. Combine this with high dodge, and it makes pot spamming a viable strategy for rogues, whereas in mages (w/o shield) it just doesnt cut it

[Gensin]

Yes, as bless said. It will be very too op.
In pvp perspective. In pvp mage can also stun hard without using any stunning/locking pet like crawly, slag etc
What more if the shield last longer and mages use stun pet a mage will turn into a hybrid of a tank, in pve it is fine specially in elites but using mage in maps without dying is kinda easy (with a party of course)., there long range, have big Aoe skills and a stunner.

Imho

[otb]

in pve it is fine specially in elites but using mage in maps without dying is kinda easy (with a party of course)., there long range, have big Aoe skills and a stunner.

Imho

No its not.

The clock which arguably is the most important skill in elite requires that you go into the middle of the mobs and drop it there. If you go in w/o shield because its CD, and the warrior is not maintaining taunt, youre doomed. Also many mobs dont get stunned in elite. If you play long range, with lightning ice and fire, then yes surviving is quite easy but again, no one would want to do elite with a mage w/o timeshift, unless ur gears are super op.

[Sceazikua]

Then find a better party instead of making your own smurf rambo, LOL. Btw There is always few seconds before the clock falls down from the sky, so it doesnt take agro that quickly.

[supersyan]

And don't forget some mob (snakes & scorn) can't be rooted or snared using clock. And the exploding clock is a useless skill. And about gale, worst skill for elite and best skill in normal map(50/50). Buffing Shield is not required. Increase our ARMOR!

[Instanthumor]

Instead of decreasing the cooldown of the shield, I think the shield just needs to be able to absorb more damage, or just make it last a whole 15 seconds. My shield doesn't even last 15 seconds against non-glaive/maul warriors, and even normal Tindirin mobs can destroy my shield before its time is up. And I have 140ish STR so this is a big problem.

Besides, without your shield, you are doomed as a mage. Most mages have 3.5k - 3.9k hp, and horribly geared rogues can hit a lucky 3.7k crit no problem. A geared rogue with razorbacks can easily hit a 4.1k crit, which would even one-shot arcane mages. Hell knows what a rogue with an arcane ring could do, are we talking about 6k crits here?

Bless, you and I both know that in a way, the Arcane shield is probably the mage's most important skill, as well as the mage's most horrible skill. You and I both know that any mage without a shield is good as dead. And you and I both know that it is ridiculously easy to 2 combo (and kill) any mage even with their shield activated.

Please buff the shields tyvm.

[Bless]

Instead of decreasing the cooldown of the shield, I think the shield just needs to be able to absorb more damage, or just make it last a whole 15 seconds. My shield doesn't even last 15 seconds against non-glaive/maul warriors, and even normal Tindirin mobs can destroy my shield before its time is up. And I have 140ish STR so this is a big problem.

Besides, without your shield, you are doomed as a mage. Most mages have 3.5k - 3.9k hp, and horribly geared rogues can hit a lucky 3.7k crit no problem. A geared rogue with razorbacks can easily hit a 4.1k crit, which would even one-shot arcane mages. Hell knows what a rogue with an arcane ring could do, are we talking about 6k crits here?

Bless, you and I both know that in a way, the Arcane shield is probably the mage's most important skill, as well as the mage's most horrible skill. You and I both know that any mage without a shield is good as dead. And you and I both know that it is ridiculously easy to 2 combo (and kill) any mage even with their shield activated.

Please buff the shields tyvm. I agree with you, I wouldnt mind 500-600 dmg more absorption, but the arcane shield has already been buffed once previously.

Also, the new skill system can change gameplay so right now I am neutral (or slightly against) over skill balances.

[extrapayah]

sts should really remove the potion delay/cooldown...

[Nesox]

Pvp perspective: A big no no from me. Shield is already OP as it is. Mages have more survivalility than a warrior. On a mage, I can hardly do more than 600~ dmg non-crit whereas on a warrior I can do about 700+ non-crit. The arcane shield, with the right upgrades can easily triple a mages survivability.

Whatever you are smoking, I need some. Mages are more powerful than someone with double armour and double my hp because of a shield that last a few seconds?

You are correct that shield triples make survivability.. although that isn't saying much seeing a mythic mage's life expectancy is one unchanged rogue shot.

[Bless]

Pvp perspective: A big no no from me. Shield is already OP as it is. Mages have more survivalility than a warrior. On a mage, I can hardly do more than 600~ dmg non-crit whereas on a warrior I can do about 700+ non-crit. The arcane shield, with the right upgrades can easily triple a mages survivability.

Whatever you are smoking, I need some. Mages are more powerful than someone with double armour and double my hp because of a shield that last a few seconds?

You are correct that shield triples make survivability.. although that isn't saying much seeing a mythic mage's life expectancy is one unchanged rogue shot. Sorry, typing error, I meant Mages have more survivability than warriors WITH arcane shield. If the shield is made a shorter CD, it can be used more often. Isnt that a on/off warrior that does 450-500 dmg? Tell me that isn't OP, and I'll have what you're smoking.

[Haligali]

Mages have more survivalility than a warrior.

You just proof your incompetence with such statements.

[Bless]

Mages have more survivalility than a warrior.

You just proof your incompetence with such statements.

Sorry, typing error, I meant Mages have more survivability than warriors WITH arcane shield. If the shield is made a shorter CD, it can be used more often. Isnt that a on/off warrior that does 450-500 dmg? Tell me that isn't OP?

Refer to the above.

Ps. You're rich hali so lets bet, lets go ingame right now and test this..? I'll put down money on the line.

And incompetent? How so?

[Madnex]

Lol at how every little rogue jumped on this suggestion even though the OP was clearly referring to PvE. There can be changes that affect only one part of the game, y'know.

Spec some STR, learn the pulls for elites. The shield is fine as it is.

[Meguy]

Roques having 3 - 4k crit is not op, Warrior with 4 survival skills and super armor and hp is not op, so definitely a mage with 15 secs shield should not be op, the shield will not last last 3 seconds when crit by a roque. Right now the most op class are roques and when threads like this starts roque users always complains. 15 secs is not bad since the shield breaks, and really most players in pvp look at the smurfs as food.

[CrazyTank]

Yes I know mages are squishy in PvE. It is just balanced because mages have an edge in PvE(look at LB). All the AoE skills and stuns. If you die too often try with good party. Mages are never meant to tank. According to my build mages have the highest armour in game for like 4 sec. Gale force + sheild.

[otb]

For those commenting here, please try out what im saying first, run a mage in elite nordr at least and with 1 warrior. Then also read the whole thread again because from what I've read in the comments so far, it seems that you are not getting me.

though admittedly, I run mostly with pugs, so i cant say for sure if the warrior is lacking or what. But I can say that for the most part, im doing the right thing as a mage. Fireball, clock, ice, shield.

[Haligali]

Sorry, typing error, I meant Mages have more survivability than warriors WITH arcane shield. If the shield is made a shorter CD, it can be used more often. Isnt that a on/off warrior that does 450-500 dmg? Tell me that isn't OP?

Refer to the above.

Ps. You're rich hali so lets bet, lets go ingame right now and test this..? I'll put down money on the line.

And incompetent? How so?

So you say that you can kill a warrior faster with juggeranut+vengeful blood+horn of renew activated than me with shield?

[Bless]

Lol at how every little rogue jumped on this suggestion even though the OP was clearly referring to PvE. There can be changes that affect only one part of the game, y'know.

Spec some STR, learn the pulls for elites. The shield is fine as it is. Yeah, it's not a pve suggestion solely. The OP mentioned that in pvp, mages shield doesnt last the whole 15 seconds - which implies that thy want shield in pvp to be elongated too. And you've been on the forums a lot, its like a neverending buff/nerf fight with the three classes. Balance will be easily toppled if sts buffs or nerfs.

Mages get buffed -> rogues wont stand a chance
Rogues get buffed -> mages wont stand a chance
Warriors get nerfed -> get owned by the other classes

Didnt you see how lots of warriors didnt like the following suggestion? Because they will die a lot as a result of neverending mana.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?139394-Packs-Blue-for-Mana-Rouge




Roques having 3 - 4k crit is not op, Warrior with 4 survival skills and super armor and hp is not op, so definitely a mage with 15 secs shield should not be op, the shield will not last last 3 seconds when crit by a roque. Right now the most op class are roques and when threads like this starts roque users complains. 15 secs is not bad since the shield breaks, and really most players in pvp look at the smurfs as food. Food? Far from food. Scenerio: A mage can easily 3 shot me with a crit, and thats the thing, their stun is so long and definate that I can't even drop packs before they execute the full combo. Only maxed rogues hit 4k. You want to make the mage an on/off warrior and they will own rogues....STG gave you the highest dmg and at the same timethe lowest survivability FOR A REASON.





So you say that you can kill a warrior faster with juggeranut+vengeful blood+horn of renew activated than me with shield? I never said that :P, I only said the following:


On a mage, I can hardly do more than 600~ dmg non-crit aimed shot whereas on a warrior I can do about 700+ non-crit aimed shot. The arcane shield, with the right upgrades can easily triple a mages survivability.


Want to test it? C: Also, I am incompetent how so?

[UndeadJudge]

I actually wish the cooldown was just 40 seconds instead of 45. WHENEVER I vs a warrior, my shield ALWAYS!!! is ALMOST finished cooling down...then I die.

Playing sorcerer in PvP is just awful.. You can kill a rogue (maybe.) but then they respawn and kill you back when you don't have shield lol..

I play both sorcerer and rogue, and sorcerer is by no means survivable even with shield. Rogues can crit about 1/4 of my health even with shield, and I am probably the highest health sorc in my bracket at around 2400 health @ L24

The other issue is our heal is beyond terrible. Mine heals about 50% of my health. Is that even useful? By the time I need to use heal, my shield would probably break anyway, and 50% health won't save me. I might as well just keep attacking.

[Bless]

I actually wish the cooldown was just 40 seconds instead of 45. WHENEVER I vs a warrior, my shield ALWAYS!!! is ALMOST finished cooling down...then I die.

Playing sorcerer in PvP is just awful.. You can kill a rogue (maybe.) but then they respawn and kill you back when you don't have shield lol..

I play both sorcerer and rogue, and sorcerer is by no means survivable even with shield. Rogues can crit about 1/4 of my health even with shield, and I am probably the highest health sorc in my bracket at around 2400 health @ L24

The other issue is our heal is beyond terrible. Mine heals about 50% of my health. Is that even useful? By the time I need to use heal, my shield would probably break anyway, and 50% health won't save me. I might as well just keep attacking. Heal % is in your control. If you have more damage, your heals will be better.

[Haligali]

Yeah, it's not a pve suggestion solely. The OP mentioned that in pvp, mages shield doesnt last the whole 15 seconds - which implies that thy want shield in pvp to be elongated too. And you've been on the forums a lot, its like a neverending buff/nerf fight with the three classes. Balance will be easily toppled if sts buffs or nerfs.

Mages get buffed -> rogues wont stand a chance
Rogues get buffed -> mages wont stand a chance
Warriors get nerfed -> get owned by the other classes

Didnt you see how lots of warriors didnt like the following suggestion? Because they will die a lot as a result of neverending mana.
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?139394-Packs-Blue-for-Mana-Rouge



Food? Far from food. Scenerio: A mage can easily 3 shot me with a crit, and thats the thing, their stun is so long and definate that I can't even drop packs before they execute the full combo. Only maxed rogues hit 4k. You want to make the mage an on/off warrior and they will own rogues....STG gave you the highest dmg and at the same timethe lowest survivability FOR A REASON.



I never said that :P, I only said the following:



Want to test it? C: Also, I am incompetent how so?

Oh yea, mages got better survivalility with using skills than a non moving warrior, or the best is even not on the map.

Have you ever played as a mage in pvp?

[otb]

In pvp, a mage vs rogue match doesnt last 15 seconds anyway so whats the fuss all about? In a group match, a mage, more often than not, dies within 15 seconds unless they run and abandon their team when their shield breaks, so again, whats the fuss all about?

[falmear]

Heal % is in your control. If you have more damage, your heals will be better.

This is wrong. You can only increase damage at the expensive of STR. By doing so lowers your health and weakens your shield. You boost STR you get more health but it lowers your damage so life giver recovers less health. But basically its a zero sum game because if you boost your damage, you are getting more percentage wise because you have less health. So it only looks more impressive then it is because the health bar only shows as a percentage. In reality they should nerf rogue packs. They are always 90% regardless of rogue damage. They should tie rogue packs to damage so if they add STR and lower damage it recovers less.

I suggest mage's don't use life giver in PvP or PvE. Force rogues to spec more INT and use lower damage mana pets. You will die anyways by the time you need to use life giver so its not helping you. Its better to spec as much STR as you can to improve your shield. And stay close to a warrior so you get hit by horn and steal a rogue pack or two. All that matters is number of kills right?

[Bless]

Heal % is in your control. If you have more damage, your heals will be better.

This is wrong. You can only increase damage at the expensive of STR. By doing so lowers your health and weakens your shield. You boost STR you get more health but it lowers your damage so life giver recovers less health. But basically its a zero sum game because if you boost your damage, you are getting more percentage wise because you have less health. So it only looks more impressive then it is because the health bar only shows as a percentage. In reality they should nerf rogue packs. They are always 90% regardless of rogue damage. They should tie rogue packs to damage so if they add STR and lower damage it recovers less.

I suggest mage's don't use life giver in PvP or PvE. Force rogues to spec more INT and use lower damage mana pets. You will die anyways by the time you need to use life giver so its not helping you. Its better to spec as much STR as you can to improve your shield. And stay close to a warrior so you get hit by horn and steal a rogue pack or two. All that matters is number of kills right? Yeah, it's like the mages mana heal, it heals the same mana on all three classes but it looks like the other classes get way more.

[Madnex]

Heal only as fifth in PvP. Unless you're really skillful with curse and shield.

[otb]

In pvp, a mage vs rogue match doesnt last 15 seconds anyway so whats the fuss all about? In a group match, a mage, more often than not, dies within 15 seconds unless they run and abandon their team when their shield breaks, so again, whats the fuss all about?

This.

So STS pls consider my suggestion.. It would affect PvE survivability of mages greatly.

As for PvP the only thing that it would affect is that a mage can't be hunted down right away after enemy respawn after the mage wins a duel. Thats all I can see there, which shouldnt be the case in the first place.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

STG gave you the highest dmg and at the same timethe lowest survivability FOR A REASON.


On stats we have the highest damage. But in fact rogues do. The average rogue and mage roughly have the same hp (3300-ish). The damage on rogues is about 450 at level 41 and about 500 for mage. The big difference is that rogues crit goes up to 60%-65%. This doesnt compare with 25%-30% crit. And also bear in mind 25% armour reduction so we abosrb more damage from the first aimed shot is fired. -.-" so rogues have a max 2/3 chance to crit whereas mages have a less than 1/3 chance to crit, bear in mind also that rogues crit do higher damage than mages. So here is really how things stand:

Rogues: highest damage - medium survivability
Mage: medium damage - weak survivability
Warrior: medium damage - highest survivability

Also....


the thing, their stun is so long and definate that I can't even drop packs before they execute the full combo.

A normal bow shot stuns the same duration as a fireball so umm...... yea.... the only difference in mages stun is AOE.

[Bless]

STG gave you the highest dmg and at the same timethe lowest survivability FOR A REASON.


On stats we have the highest damage. But in fact rogues do. The average rogue and mage roughly have the same hp (3300-ish). The damage on rogues is about 450 at level 41 and about 500 for mage. The big difference is that rogues crit goes up to 60%-65%. This doesnt compare with 25%-30% crit. And also bear in mind 25% armour reduction so we abosrb more damage from the first aimed shot is fired. -.-" so rogues have a max 2/3 chance to crit whereas mages have a less than 1/3 chance to crit, bear in mind also that rogues crit do higher damage than mages. So here is really how things stand:

Rogues: highest damage - medium survivability
Mage: medium damage - weak survivability
Warrior: medium damage - highest survivability

Also....


the thing, their stun is so long and definate that I can't even drop packs before they execute the full combo.

A normal bow shot stuns the same duration as a fireball so umm...... yea.... the only difference in mages stun is AOE. Normal bow stun only stuns half the time, and also FB is easily longer stun time as it is a knockdown and a stun combined.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

Normal bow stun only stuns half the time, and also FB is easily longer stun time as it is a knockdown and a stun combined.

Is that so? Lol no disrespect but you can believe that all you want :)

[Sceazikua]

@^ :I have to agree on this. Knock down never lasts its full 5s especially on warrior. With warriors it lasts like 0.5 sec, they get no stun at all, only enough to make them miss some of their skill.

[Bless]

Normal bow stun only stuns half the time, and also FB is easily longer stun time as it is a knockdown and a stun combined.

Is that so? Lol no disrespect but you can believe that all you want :) I believe FB stuns do last longer, you may not, but either way, it is a higher stun chance.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

I believe FB stuns do last longer, you may not, but either way, it is a higher stun chance.

I'm not referring to the chance to stun. I'm talking about the duration of the stun. So let's say we both have a 1v1. I start with FB and you start with charged bow does that mean I will have enough time to pop up my shield before you combo me?

[Bless]

I'm not referring to the chance to stun. I'm talking about the duration of the stun. So let's say we both have a 1v1. I start with FB and you start with charged bow does that mean I will have enough time to pop up my shield before you combo me? Thats your problem with tactics. Start out with shield? The rogue wont be able to hit you for 2 seconds, so you can do fb after shield

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

Thats your problem with tactics. Start out with shield? The rogue wont be able to hit you for 2 seconds, so you can do fb after shield

I'm just using that as an example to prove to you that FB stun duration is the same as charged bow *sigh*

[Bless]

Thats your problem with tactics. Start out with shield? The rogue wont be able to hit you for 2 seconds, so you can do fb after shield

I'm just using that as an example to prove to you that FB stun duration is the same as charged bow *sigh* Lol, we both can't prove our arguments because Stuns aren't fixed amounts of time, therefore this is futile :rolleyes:

[Instanthumor]

Bless, it's been tested that any normal charged bow stun is longer than a Fireball stun.

[Bless]

Bless, it's been tested that any normal charged bow stun is longer than a Fireball stun. Solidly tested Data? STG confirmed?

[Instanthumor]

Solidly tested Data? STG confirmed?

A few other individuals and myself confirmed. A bit sad, isn't it?

[falmear]

Normal bow stun only stuns half the time, and also FB is easily longer stun time as it is a knockdown and a stun combined.

Its only a stun in PvP. In PvE its a knock down sometimes and a stun always. Take a pic of it in PvP and prove me wrong but I never seen any knock down. Just the stars above people's heads which means their stunned. Another mage skill nerfed in PvP.

[Joncheese]

From PVE perspective, run with a good tank. They are there to keep the aggro and heal you. If your tank is good then you will live. As far as i can see STS have tried to make it so that every class has a function this season for elites, unlike last season where they just weren't needed. As for Nordr.... tbh you shouldn't be dying a lot there anymore, what level are you? Try and keep them frozen and clock more, i can keep 2 groups isolated on my own without hassle providing i get the timing right. Ice cooldown is quicker than FB, u can stun one group and freeze the second and rotate.

Speaking from a PVP perspective Mages sheild is only of any use for the first 2 secs. After that it goes downhill extremely fast. With the new level Cap i have found that Mages are easily the most squishy class in pvp. Yes they have high dmg (about 675 with arcane ring) but as many have said this comes at a cost. Our armor is worthless, and rogues in this season at this precise moment remain the class to be afraid of. They can crit and one shot each other and mages very easily, and i've since heard of them breaking Jugg this season with their crits. I also watched numerous rogues 3 shot warriors...... insanity.

Imo tho the shield doesnt need a buff, it does what it needs to do. It is after all a skill, its not a base stat. Our armor is what needs looking at, to be able to compete with the higher dmg. Lets not forget that we are all using lvl36 armor and helm with lvl 41 dmg.... its gonna hurt.

Warriors should have the dmg buff they receive as they enter PVP removed now, they dont need it they have enough dps and dmg to compete.

To sum it up our shield is fine, our armor isnt. But then tbh no ones armor apart from Warriors is good....... They need some more balance.

[Farz]

Yes mage have the biggest damage in this Arlor World,but,how do we do that big damage if we cant stay to make that damage?and if you say you can do it fast,nooo...there is something that called "Cooldown"

[Alhuntrazeck]

Mages have the highest stat page damage - but the highest skill damage is easily the rogues'. That's how its supposed to be, though :)
...Except for the fact that they have higher armor than mages as well...sts should consider buffing armor and/or adding an armor buff to heal - see my thread.

[Imjebus]

Yeah I doubt we'll be seeing a buff to mages any time soon.

[Bless]

Solidly tested Data? STG confirmed?

A few other individuals and myself confirmed. A bit sad, isn't it? Nope.

[Zeus]

I believe FB stuns do last longer, you may not, but either way, it is a higher stun chance.

Stuns and panics actually vary in duration, test it. :)

Anyone who says that a sorcerer does not need some sort of buff at this point in time is kidding themselves. If I spec to the right build, any mage is relatively easy (even the geared out ones!)

Here's some key points to keep in mind:
• All rogues can hit very hard now, even semi geared rogues. Geared out rogues like me? Well, a 5k crit is just 300-500 damage away. Do mages even have 5k health yet? No.
• Warriors - I crit 3.7k on them. So, all I can actually crit through jugg pretty easily as can any rogue who knows what they're doing and can avoid the short range crippling effects.
• As Falmear said, the health pool effect is rather miserable. At the very least, heal should not only replenish health but perhaps renew a portion (if not completely) the amount of damage reduction a mage's shield can take? That should considerably improve their damage.
• A mage doesn't do all that much damage. I've seen about a 2.4k crit on lightning tops from a mage. It's really not all that much and it's significantly reduced under the effects of veil.

[Sceazikua]

But
1.Mages are NOT suposed to be tank, in fact its the most squishy. Why are we asking to make them more tanky and survive in all 15 sec and more? Its because of the playstyle, for example the OP meant "I want to run to boss in elite oltgar but shield doesnt last long enough to save me", well we all know how many mobs there are in the run-way to boss in oltgar. You cant expect to live long enough when playing the squishiest class and running into a big crowd of mobs/a PvP clash.

2.Mages are NOT meant to solo, rogues are. most of mage's skills are AOE, while rogues only do damage to 1 target (at least in PvP) to play well. Its different kinds. Damage to all party =/= damage to 1 target.

3.The set duration (15 sec) is only there to serve as a timer. What if they made it 10 sec in first place, and the shield often only absorbs enough damage in 10 sec, then "it lasts to its full extend", will you (referred to people who cried) stop crying that "mages shield are meant to be 15 sec, not down in 10 sec"?

Only thing I dislike is the heal :( Pls get rid of 10 hp and 10 mp regen upgrades and give us something usefull :(

[Bless]

I believe FB stuns do last longer, you may not, but either way, it is a higher stun chance.

Stuns and panics actually vary in duration, test it. :)

Anyone who says that a sorcerer does not need some sort of buff at this point in time is kidding themselves. If I spec to the right build, any mage is relatively easy (even the geared out ones!)

Here's some key points to keep in mind:
• All rogues can hit very hard now, even semi geared rogues. Geared out rogues like me? Well, a 5k crit is just 300-500 damage away. Do mages even have 5k health yet? No.
• Warriors - I crit 3.7k on them. So, all I can actually crit through jugg pretty easily as can any rogue who knows what they're doing and can avoid the short range crippling effects.
• As Falmear said, the health pool effect is rather miserable. At the very least, heal should not only replenish health but perhaps renew a portion (if not completely) the amount of damage reduction a mage's shield can take? That should considerably improve their damage.
• A mage doesn't do all that much damage. I've seen about a 2.4k crit on lightning tops from a mage. It's really not all that much and it's significantly reduced under the effects of veil. That's what I said. Firstly, I said that stun times are random but others are arguing that bow stuns last longer than FB stuns, which is disproved in my 16 months of pvp, that is definitely not the case, because a) the stun chance is pretty random and b) there is no evidence.

Secondly, although I agree that mages need a buff, at the same time, I disagree that arcane shield does NOT need a buff. Arcane shield has been buffed twice previously and now is pretty OP, the thing that is the let down for mages is their armor not their HP or their Arcane shield (or damage).

Buff their armor by 100-200, but anything greater, and it would be too op. It would be like giving rogues an arcane shield along with their usual SP, heal and Aimed shot, imagine how effin' OP that is. That's the only reason I argue against this.

As for your examples, don't forget that pvp should be balanced for everyone. Pvp shouldn't be balanced according to (solely) maxed players stats but an average pvpers stats too. I can pretty much take anybody with equal gear but skills shouldn't be buffed, gear should.

Tbh leave the skills and current mythics alone. Buff new mythics and magma gear respectively - considering all players.


Also, new skill system guys!

[falmear]

Everything you said is wrong and here is why:


But
1.Mages are NOT suposed to be tank, in fact its the most squishy. Why are we asking to make them more tanky and survive in all 15 sec and more? Its because of the playstyle, for example the OP meant "I want to run to boss in elite oltgar but shield doesnt last long enough to save me", well we all know how many mobs there are in the run-way to boss in oltgar. You cant expect to live long enough when playing the squishiest class and running into a big crowd of mobs/a PvP clash.


This is wrong, I have been running all the way to boss in Oltgar since season 4. So this is possible without arcane shield. So you can expect to live long enough playing the squishiest class. You can see here:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?142513-Season-5-Leaderboard-Winners!

And see whose name is next to the pure timed run for Oltgar. Do you really think we killed all mobs or anyone died?



2.Mages are NOT meant to solo, rogues are. most of mage's skills are AOE, while rogues only do damage to 1 target (at least in PvP) to play well. Its different kinds. Damage to all party =/= damage to 1 target.


This is also wrong because I routinely solo many maps and if I wanted to could solo almost all elite maps. Another mage claimed you couldn't solo an elite boss and only a rogue could do this but I demonstrated this was wrong:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?112903-Solution-to-fix-the-issue-of-rogues-being-OP-in-PvE&p=1258635&viewfull=1#post1258635



3.The set duration (15 sec) is only there to serve as a timer. What if they made it 10 sec in first place, and the shield often only absorbs enough damage in 10 sec, then "it lasts to its full extend", will you (referred to people who cried) stop crying that "mages shield are meant to be 15 sec, not down in 10 sec"?


This is nonsensical. Shield has a 15 second duration with a 30 second cool down. But it is only damage reduction of 30-45% depending on upgrades. Once it absorbs up to a certain amount of damage it will drop before the 15 seconds is up. So it seems you don't understand how shield works given your strawman argument. Because given enough damage shield can last only 1 second. And having used it in the past, I have seen this basically saving me from a 1 shot death. And whatever damage was prevented (30%-45%) you take the rest of the damage.

The issue here is that its more challenging to play a mage then other classes because of our low armor. The only advantage you have as a mage is crowd control. But when STS nerfs our crowd control ability then we are weak. This is why we suck at PvP and in Tindirin is the most challenging expansion. Because they have nerfed which mobs can be rooted, frozen and stunned. When you keep nerfing our skills and giving us nothing in return then people are going to be upset. But this stuff has been complained about for over 1 year since the game was started. Nothing is going to be done. Anyone who doesn't like playing a mage I suggest you sell all your stuff and buy new gear and play a warrior or rogue.

[Sceazikua]

I think you misunderstood my points, or you just tried to think it another way to make me sound wrong lol. And btw, by "not meant to" I didnt mean "cant" or I just put there cant, right? Mages CAN still do it, just not as effective as others. all 3 classes have their own roll you must have known: warrior-tank (stated in point 1), rogue-solo aka single target kill (stated in point 2) and mages-team player (stated in point 2 too)

1.My first point means that generally mages are squishy, some who are skilled and geared like you may be not. Didnt I state it is because of playstyle? What did I say wrong when I said mages are not suposed to be tank? Not because you can run there doesnt mean all other squishy mages without skill can run there too (for example the OP).

2.Solo here refers solo in PvP, where people just say "rogue do 3k 4k damage mage cant stand". solo in PvE and PvP are different. Mages are more effective in clashes than to do 1v1 with rogues to get all those single targeted damage to their squishy armor by themselves.

3.I dont understand what your "nonsensical" refers to, seriously. What I meant is that 15 sec duration is not suposed to always last to its full 15 sec, its just a timer to turn off your shield when not enough damage absorbed. We all know that as long as the shield is still up the smurf is still alive dont we? You guys are basically asking for a "15 sec immortality shield" by asking to make them "last to its full extend". Its just a normal shield, it has its cap, and it can absorb some damage to save you some seconds not insta-killed, not granting immortality.

Btw I dont understand what youre talking about in the last part.

But when STS nerfs our crowd control ability then we are weak. This is why we suck at PvP and in Tindirin is the most challenging expansion. Because they have nerfed which mobs can be rooted, frozen and stunned. When you keep nerfing our skills and giving us nothing in return then people are going to be upset. But this stuff has been complained about for over 1 year since the game was started. Nothing is going to be done.
Not sure how STS nerfed our crowd control ability, they just fixed what that are considered OP. Idk how PvP is before the stun immune came, but (in my theory) I can imagine many smurfs keep cycling and stunning the opposite team. Is that not worth fixing? Btw they also nerfed warriors horn because (in my theory) many warrior keep cycling and shielding themselves = undead, just reminding. Btw in PvE in shuyal the shielded skeletons (stronger ones) and shadowmancers are not rootable or stunable, but why arent you complaining about them? Because they are easy enough that people can breeze through? Now there are only snakes unrootable and unstunable, and they may be the real challenge, and now you complain "mages are weak if cant root/stun them"?

Anyone who doesn't like playing a mage I suggest you sell all your stuff and buy new gear and play a warrior or rogue.
I never expected to hear this from someone like you, seriously. Wtf are you talking about? Just because I dont want to fight for sorc and ask for arcane shield to be OP and grant immortality that means "I dont like playing mage"? pff.

[falmear]

1.My first point means that generally mages are squishy, some who are skilled and geared like you may be not. Didnt I state it is because of playstyle? What did I say wrong when I said mages are not suposed to be tank? Not because you can run there doesnt mean all other squishy mages without skill can run there too (for example the OP).


If you play your skills right you can tank as a mage. This is the point of crowd control. Tanking means taking damage but if you play your skills right you take minimal damage. Instead of saying mages are this or that, you should recommend people improve their skills and gear and not perpetuate myths like this.



2.Solo here refers solo in PvP, where people just say "rogue do 3k 4k damage mage cant stand". solo in PvE and PvP are different. Mages are more effective in clashes than to do 1v1 with rogues to get all those single targeted damage to their squishy armor by themselves.


Mage vs Rogue is mostly fair assuming the right build. Mage vs Warrior is more difficult because of the armor and lack of critical damage. Mages in clashes is less fair because our crowd control is nerfed. All we have is stun or slow down effects. Stun also is nerfed because of stun immunity. So at best you have is AOE damage but in any clash, rogues get the most kills. How is it in a 5v5 fight, AOE damage gets the least kills and rogue who is single target gets the most. So what you are saying is wrong based in the real world and not based on forum posts.



3.I dont understand what your "nonsensical" refers to, seriously. What I meant is that 15 sec duration is not suposed to always last to its full 15 sec, its just a timer to turn off your shield when not enough damage absorbed. We all know that as long as the shield is still up the smurf is still alive dont we? You guys are basically asking for a "15 sec immortality shield" by asking to make them "last to its full extend". Its just a normal shield, it has its cap, and it can absorb some damage to save you some seconds not insta-killed, not granting immortality.


The problem with shield is that it drops after certain amount of damage has been absorbed. Veil which boosts your armor 20% lasts 15 seconds with a 20 second cool down. So asking shield to be extended or not go down so fast is reasonable. Veil is always active no matter how much damage it takes. How about they nerf veil so its only active 10 seconds and disappears once you receive a certain amount of damage?



Not sure how STS nerfed our crowd control ability, they just fixed what that are considered OP. Idk how PvP is before the stun immune came, but (in my theory) I can imagine many smurfs keep cycling and stunning the opposite team. Is that not worth fixing? Btw they also nerfed warriors horn because (in my theory) many warrior keep cycling and shielding themselves = undead, just reminding. Btw in PvE in shuyal the shielded skeletons (stronger ones) and shadowmancers are not rootable or stunable, but why arent you complaining about them? Because they are easy enough that people can breeze through? Now there are only snakes unrootable and unstunable, and they may be the real challenge, and now you complain "mages are weak if cant root/stun them"?


Maybe this is the problem that you don't understand. This season you can't freeze a lot of mobs with ice. Last season the only mob which you couldn't freeze was those shadowmancers. This season snakes, komodo dragon, troll thing aren't effected by ice and only until recently those snakes can be rooted. And all of these mobs are also uneffected by fireball stun. In PvP none of our skills work the same way as in PvE. All our skills are nerfed in PvP, fireball doesn't do a knock down, ice doesn't freeze, time shift doesn't root, and wind doesn't knock back. So you can see that STS made snakes rootable and this is a big mea culpa by STS. So yes crowd control is nerfed in PvP and PvE. Any one who plays a mage knows this.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?146513-2014-04-03-Content-Update-(143683)



The Winged Serpents in Tindirin can now be snared and slowed.

[Nesox]

From a pvp perspective my major beef is not with the mechanics of the shield itself but in the fact that we are 100% reliant on it and 100% non viable without it. Shield should be built as a compromise for those who prefer suvivability over damage (defense vs an extra offensive skill) rather than suvivability over insta-death. Even if you assume shield is the cats azz for the duration of the effect (which it is not), this still means that we are completely defenssless at least 50% of the game. Any Rogue can finish us off in a single shot with shield down. Warriors may take a couple more but they have nothing but time. Mages can be very viable in pvp... 25-50% of the time. The rest of the time we spend ducking, diving, and praying that cooldown finishes before someone else sees us.