Discussion on the Newly Revealed DMG % System

[Reunegade]

What are your thoughts on it? (Null_void revealed that dmg % bonus is only the largest variable taking action. So for example, a 25% dmg elixir beats all other dmg stacks because this is the largest variable.)

I think that arcane pets, such as Singe and Hammerjaw, would decrease in usage more than they already have been because their damage bonus becomes obselete.

[GoodSyntax]

I'm still doing more research, so let's not jump to conclusions just yet.

I am looking into armor and pet AA's today. If I have time, I will also look into the bonuses from Aimed Shot's 10% DMG bonus as well.

[Cero]

Can you give us the link or quote the statement and post it here.

[Xpolosion]

Yes so sts add crit to damn singe

[Ebezaanec]

You are both correct. The way that the current multiplier system works depends on the statistic being multiplied. In the case of damage specifically, we apply the following rules:

- Is there one or more debuff? If so, use the lowest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 0.5 damage multiplier debuff and a 0.25 damage multiplier debuff, this would result in a multiplier of 0.25).
- Otherwise, is there one or more buff? If so, use the highest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 1.05 damage multiplier buff and a 1.25 damage multiplier buff, this would result in a multiplier of 1.25).

Because of this, yes. If you have a passive skill with a 1.05 multiplier (5/5 skill), and you also have a pet out that gives you a 1.15 multiplier, your total damage multiplier will be 1.15.

There are a few things that override this - bonus damage, double damage weekends and such interact with the statistic system differently from the normal multipliers, so they don't use this logic.

Here ya go

[Cero]

You are both correct. The way that the current multiplier system works depends on the statistic being multiplied. In the case of damage specifically, we apply the following rules:

- Is there one or more debuff? If so, use the lowest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 0.5 damage multiplier debuff and a 0.25 damage multiplier debuff, this would result in a multiplier of 0.25).
- Otherwise, is there one or more buff? If so, use the highest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 1.05 damage multiplier buff and a 1.25 damage multiplier buff, this would result in a multiplier of 1.25).

Because of this, yes. If you have a passive skill with a 1.05 multiplier (5/5 skill), and you also have a pet out that gives you a 1.15 multiplier, your total damage multiplier will be 1.15.

There are a few things that override this - bonus damage, double damage weekends and such interact with the statistic system differently from the normal multipliers, so they don't use this logic.

Here ya go

Thanks you very much
This is a good info.

If what i understand is right Then passive bonus is useless for most pet i use gives more dmg multiplier.

[matanofx]

Why cant everything just stack up for everyone on any item/pet/elixir? isnt simple the easiest way?

[Anarchist]

You are both correct. The way that the current multiplier system works depends on the statistic being multiplied. In the case of damage specifically, we apply the following rules:

- Is there one or more debuff? If so, use the lowest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 0.5 damage multiplier debuff and a 0.25 damage multiplier debuff, this would result in a multiplier of 0.25).
- Otherwise, is there one or more buff? If so, use the highest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 1.05 damage multiplier buff and a 1.25 damage multiplier buff, this would result in a multiplier of 1.25).

Because of this, yes. If you have a passive skill with a 1.05 multiplier (5/5 skill), and you also have a pet out that gives you a 1.15 multiplier, your total damage multiplier will be 1.15.

There are a few things that override this - bonus damage, double damage weekends and such interact with the statistic system differently from the normal multipliers, so they don't use this logic.

Does this mean sts knew right from day1 the damage % didn't stack?

[Serancha]

Does this mean sts knew right from day1 the damage % didn't stack?

As a web developer I write code according to the functionality I am asked to provide, I don't write code and then find out what it does after. Every line of code is written specifically to implement a certain functionality. This is the same in all fields of development - web, apps, software, gaming, etc.

Whoever coded the elixir stacking would have had to be following the game designer's instructions. Unless there was some rogue coder giggling and saying "ooh let's just leave these unstackable" without telling anyone (unlikely), it would have been a decision made when building the game.


Edit:

Pet damage is only obsolete IF you are using a damage elixir. The biggest points discussed so far are:
• Pet damage is nulled when using damage or combo elixirs
• Combo elixirs and single damage elixirs do not stack.
• Passive damage is useless when using a pet with damage %
• Archon damage bonus is overwritten by just about everything
• Shadow veil damage upgrade is part of this damage-non-stacking thing. So Abaddon and Shadow Veil do not work together.

[Rare]

So basically, if you're using any damage pet... the damage passive is pointless.

Interesting...

[Rare]

As a web developer I write code according to the functionality I am asked to provide, I don't write code and then find out what it does after. Every line of code is written specifically to implement a certain functionality. This is the same in all fields of development - web, apps, software, gaming, etc.

Whoever coded the elixir stacking would have had to be following the game designer's instructions. Unless there was some rogue coder giggling and saying "ooh let's just leave these unstackable" without telling anyone (unlikely), it would have been a decision made when building the game.

The other option is that there is a bug. Maybe the designer built it in a way that it isn't easily fixed. Or maybe it was as intended.

But I say this much... this is a game changer. And is something we would probably have figured out in season 1/2 with passive bonuses displayed.

[Yakiniku]

It's silly and unnecessarily complicated. A hard cap (like how it supposedly is on luck) would've been better and easier to understand for everyone.

Good thing there's a skill overhaul in the works, because damage passive just became another unused skill.

[Reunegade]

I say thanks to GoodSyntax. This really changed AL as we know it and could really affect gameplay and skill setups.

[Limitational]

Took us 6 seasons ... And to think, we'd of known this if instead of working on events to soak up platinum, they'd actually try and fix the bugs that have been here since season 1.
*sigh* looks like I'm respeccing since I've wasted 5 skill points for like ever. Thanks for sharing. Gonna go ahead and find a place for those 5 skill points now

[Deadroth]

This means, if i use pet with 10 % + dmg and have passive with +5 % dmg i will still have 10 % dmg

Just next trick to have elixirs active everytime...


Thx for telling me guys!!

STS Should fix that wierd system... otherway they put DMG passive without point.

[Anarchist]

As a web developer I write code according to the functionality I am asked to provide, I don't write code and then find out what it does after. Every line of code is written specifically to implement a certain functionality. This is the same in all fields of development - web, apps, software, gaming, etc.

Whoever coded the elixir stacking would have had to be following the game designer's instructions. Unless there was some rogue coder giggling and saying "ooh let's just leave these unstackable" without telling anyone (unlikely), it would have been a decision made when building the game.


Edit:

Pet damage is only obsolete IF you are using a damage elixir. The biggest points discussed so far are:
• Pet damage is nulled when using damage or combo elixirs
• Combo elixirs and single damage elixirs do not stack.
• Passive damage is useless when using a pet with damage %
• Archon damage bonus is overwritten by just about everything
• Shadow veil damage upgrade is part of this damage-non-stacking thing. So Abaddon and Shadow Veil do not work together.

What about vengeful blood and shadowlurk AA ???





Seriously this thing is making me laugh.

The system and what we believed till today has all been thrown into thr dustbin.

Aaaah my plats :"S

[FluffNStuff]

Why cant everything just stack up for everyone on any item/pet/elixir? isnt simple the easiest way?

If all 'different buffs' stacked ... 5% passive + 10% veil + 15% pet + 25% single elixir + 30% combo ... you are looking at + 95% damage, or nearly double. Would you like to design a board that is both possible AND not insanely easy to BOTH players, one of whom puts out twice as much damage as the other? For how well that work, take a look at PL.

[Limitational]

If all 'different buffs' stacked ... 5% passive + 10% veil + 15% pet + 25% single elixir + 30% combo ... you are looking at + 95% damage, or nearly double. Would you like to design a board that is both possible AND not insanely easy to BOTH players, one of whom puts out twice as much damage as the other? For how well that work, take a look at PL.
If it's unable to be combined why even go to all the trouble to make fake things. They should remove all the damage buffs from skills\passives since the pet apparently cancels them out and the elixir cancels all of it. This is really disappointing. They need to take a serious look at this and stop trying to push out content. Fix your bugs first please sts:/

[Ravager]

As a web developer I write code according to the functionality I am asked to provide, I don't write code and then find out what it does after. Every line of code is written specifically to implement a certain functionality. This is the same in all fields of development - web, apps, software, gaming, etc.

Whoever coded the elixir stacking would have had to be following the game designer's instructions. Unless there was some rogue coder giggling and saying "ooh let's just leave these unstackable" without telling anyone (unlikely), it would have been a decision made when building the game.


Edit:

Pet damage is only obsolete IF you are using a damage elixir. The biggest points discussed so far are:
• Pet damage is nulled when using damage or combo elixirs
• Combo elixirs and single damage elixirs do not stack.
• Passive damage is useless when using a pet with damage %
• Archon damage bonus is overwritten by just about everything
• Shadow veil damage upgrade is part of this damage-non-stacking thing. So Abaddon and Shadow Veil do not work together.

What about vengeful blood and shadowlurk AA ???





Seriously this thing is making me laugh.

The system and what we believed till today has all been thrown into thr dustbin.

Aaaah my plats :"S

Basically shadowlurk adds 10% to the user. The aa adds 10% too. Since the 2 10% buffs are equal and based on the information, the aa does nothing for the user. Most likely the 10% dmg increase is going to do nothing to your teammates if they have a buff like from a pet with 10% or higher (which is common at endgame) . Consider the aa of shadowlurk aa as just 20 crit.

Vengeful blood adds 25% dmg increase for a few seconds. In pve, if you already have a dmg elixir the vb dmg increase is equal and no point. You can still use vb for the str and crit increase.

[GoodSyntax]

Why cant everything just stack up for everyone on any item/pet/elixir? isnt simple the easiest way?

Imagine 5/5 DMG passive, 15% DMG Happiness Bonus from your pet Loki, 10% DMG from a party members Arcane Ability on Orion, a 30% DMG bonus from a Combo Elixir and a 15% bonus in DMG% from standing in a Shadow Veil.

What would you expect your damage bonus to be? +75% through straight addition of the bonuses, +98.57% through stacking with the Elixir stacked last?

Whichever way you view it, +75% to almost +100% is grossly overpowered. With most Rogues possessing 450+ DMG, that almost means that you are one-hitting mobs in elite Tindirin.

[matanofx]

Mhm why even put the +2.5% dmg on rogue archon rings? its obviously not being calculated, and thats just 1 out of many examples.

[Rare]

Mhm why even put the +2.5% dmg on rogue archon rings? its obviously not being calculated, and thats just 1 out of many examples.

Price dip coming

[Deadroth]

Imagine 5/5 DMG passive, 15% DMG Happiness Bonus from your pet Loki, 10% DMG from a party members Arcane Ability on Orion, a 30% DMG bonus from a Combo Elixir and a 15% bonus in DMG% from standing in a Shadow Veil.

What would you expect your damage bonus to be? +75% through straight addition of the bonuses, +98.57% through stacking with the Elixir stacked last?

Whichever way you view it, +75% to almost +100% is grossly overpowered. With most Rogues possessing 450+ DMG, that almost means that you are one-hitting mobs in elite Tindirin.

I wouldn't mind since they are one-hitting me. At least they could have stack pet + skills...

[Defilading]

Mhm why even put the +2.5% dmg on rogue archon rings? its obviously not being calculated, and thats just 1 out of many examples.

Erm this im skeptical on. Because unlike the damage passives. the archon rings damage actually shows up on your stats. I dont think its broken. however this 5/5 damage not working should either be fixed or taken out.

DEVS look at this topic please. Either tell us you are gonna "look into" or fix it. or tell us you don't care so i can go ahead and find uses for the skill points:(

[Serancha]

Erm this im skeptical on. Because unlike the damage passives. the archon rings damage actually shows up on your stats. I dont think its broken. however this 5/5 damage not working should either be fixed or taken out.

DEVS look at this topic please. Either tell us you are gonna "look into" or fix it. or tell us you don't care so i can go ahead and find uses for the skill points:(

This is why the price of Archon won't drop fast. People like to believe what is displayed. Nothing wrong with that, but looks can be deceiving. Remember the Alp glitch anyone?

[falmear]

You can't believe whats on the stats page. They recently fixed a bug with the arcane ring and singe wasn't showing on the stats page properly. Also its likely the code that calculates damage in combat and the code which shows your stats are completely separate.

[Defilading]

This is why the price of Archon won't drop fast. People like to believe what is displayed. Nothing wrong with that, but looks can be deceiving. Remember the Alp glitch anyone?

which is why the devs need to hurry up and post in here confirming some stuff or confirming that theyre gonna at least fix some of it. Theres going to be alot of anger once more people peak at this thread. Especially if the archons are bugged. i know alot of people who spent dozens of plat to super gem the 41 archons.

[Slappityslap]

Correct me if I'm wrong. So basically if I use Samael to clear mobs faster and switch to Singe in boss fight, I basically need to respec for optimal build if I have 5/5 in dmg passive?

[Fyrce]

Anyone remember when people were asking about players being overpowered w/ skills and buffs and lixers? And devs said they thought about that and had a solution? And we all assumed that meant things were capped? And they sort of confirmed that?

Now we know that it is capped. Only not quite what we had assumed.

[Kakatoa91]

Oh for players sake... sts

Plz simplify all this.
Make things clearer.

[Haligali]

Correct me if I'm wrong. So basically if I use Samael to clear mobs faster and switch to Singe in boss fight, I basically need to respec for optimal build if I have 5/5 in dmg passive?

No, both samael(10%) and singe(12%) got higher dmg than the 5% passive, so dont put skill point there.

Skill points on passive damage should be considered only if u use pets without dmg on happyness bonus like malison or crawly.

[ujangkampak]

nice guide. ty sir :)

[Classychic]

I wonder how things are going in the Crit research department? Thinking where to allocate the 5 skill points I used to put in DMG :)

[Energizeric]

I don't really care what rules they have, but the stat page MUST match the actual statistics used during battle. Otherwise players have no way to judge their build. I really do hope the fix coming soon will make this so.

[MetalForce]

As a endgame pve rogue I find this very disturbing. So since I use Grimm my passive damage is useless? And my archon may or may not stack... We really need damage % to reflect in stat page, especially including current pet buff.

[Instanthumor]

So basically, if you're using any damage pet... the damage passive is pointless.

Interesting...

This is true. When equipped with Samael, you recieve an extra 10% dmg from happiness bonus, so putting skill points in the dmg passive is useless. Unfortunately, it applies with Archon Rings as well (STR and DEX types), so with a 3.5% armor bonus, your durable passive is useless. Because of this, I have to switch to a mythic ring for my warrior because I rather have 5% armor bonus from passives than 3.5% armor bonus.

[Cero]

This is true. When equipped with Samael, you recieve an extra 10% dmg from happiness bonus, so putting skill points in the dmg passive is useless. Unfortunately, it applies with Archon Rings as well (STR and DEX types), so with a 3.5% armor bonus, your durable passive is useless. Because of this, I have to switch to a mythic ring for my warrior because I rather have 5% armor bonus from passives than 3.5% armor bonus.



I dont think the armor% applies in this because when you equip archon ring your armor is boosted

[Serancha]

This is true. When equipped with Samael, you recieve an extra 10% dmg from happiness bonus, so putting skill points in the dmg passive is useless. Unfortunately, it applies with Archon Rings as well (STR and DEX types), so with a 3.5% armor bonus, your durable passive is useless. Because of this, I have to switch to a mythic ring for my warrior because I rather have 5% armor bonus from passives than 3.5% armor bonus.

Actually in pvp we tested the armor ring quite carefully, and it did still have effect when combined with passive armor.

This was not the case for archon damage ring when combined with damage pet having over 10% damage boost. I put the info on the original thread about this.

[Ravager]

So basically, if you're using any damage pet... the damage passive is pointless.

Interesting...

This is true. When equipped with Samael, you recieve an extra 10% dmg from happiness bonus, so putting skill points in the dmg passive is useless. Unfortunately, it applies with Archon Rings as well (STR and DEX types), so with a 3.5% armor bonus, your durable passive is useless. Because of this, I have to switch to a mythic ring for my warrior because I rather have 5% armor bonus from passives than 3.5% armor bonus.

Actually, the description for warrior archons is that it grants 2.5% armor. It actually calculates in 5% armor, not 2.5%. Tests with serancha showed having the archon was more effective than having it off. I had durability in and it didnt seem to cancel the archons armor effect.

[-no]

Wow, failed build. So I have had points in damage all this time, wasted. Wow.

[Limitational]

Lol so we've been being lied to this whole time. A lot of people dished out a lot of platinum to perfect gem archons. And now this has been brought up LOL
Sts good job! Great way to show the people who PAY YOUR BILLS lmao. I also love how popular this threads getting all day long yet no developer has said anything yet

[Bless]

Only applies in pve unless you use a dmg passive for pvp

[Kellhus]

Lol so we've been being lied to this whole time. A lot of people dished out a lot of platinum to perfect gem archons. And now this has been brought up LOL
Sts good job! Great way to show the people who PAY YOUR BILLS lmao. I also love how popular this threads getting all day long yet no developer has said anything yet

Sam did comment in the other thread about this. Take a look. :-)

...

[otb]

So only damage is affected and not armor and crit passives?

[Serancha]

I am not sure how much armor testing has been done.

The tests Ravager and I did on armor were only for the archon armor ring and passive armor, and only in PvP.

It is known that PvE behaves differently due to pvp balancing, so that will need testing independently.

This test also did not include an armor % pet.

If someone has tested this for PvE and with an armor % pet, it would be great to know.

[GoodSyntax]

@Serancha - what are the armor% pets? Most of my pets seem to have damage reduction, or a fixed armor value, not armor% improvement.

If I happen to have one of the armor% pets, I'll do some testing tomorrow.

[Serancha]

Gah I don't remember. It's one of the arcane ones. And I don't have it.....whim or singe perhaps? I don't think we have any others yet, but who knows what will come in the future.

[Sdbigdaddy]

head..about..to explode. Now will have to really look at which pets to buy and use. Also, "free respec" weekend please! :)

BTW, I was perfectly happy not reading about this. I thought it all stacked. Freekin' noob.

[Instanthumor]

Actually, the description for warrior archons is that it grants 2.5% armor. It actually calculates in 5% armor, not 2.5%. Tests with serancha showed having the archon was more effective than having it off. I had durability in and it didnt seem to cancel the archons armor effect.

From what I was told, when equipping the Archon Ring (with the armor bonus), it cancels the durable passive (because Archon was dominant). But without the Archon, the 5% from the passive would work.

[Ravager]

Gah I don't remember. It's one of the arcane ones. And I don't have it.....whim or singe perhaps? I don't think we have any others yet, but who knows what will come in the future.

Only armor % pet I know of is Glacian w/ its AA.
All others are dmg reduction pets


From what I was told, when equipping the Archon Ring (with the armor bonus), it cancels the durable passive (because Archon was dominant). But without the Archon, the 5% from the passive would work.

That's what I thought too. I wanted to take off durability and put it elsewhere if this was the case. Serancha gave me the numbers as we tested in PVP and results showed differently as stated above.

[Instanthumor]

That's what I thought too. I wanted to take off durability and put it elsewhere if this was the case. Serancha gave me the numbers as we tested in PVP and results showed differently as stated above.

My sources tell me otherwise. Besides, what makes armor so special that it would be excluded from this case? Doesn't make much sense. Maybe you should try testing again :p

Btw, there isn't a huge difference between 5% armor bonus and 3.5% armor bonus.

[Ravager]

My sources tell me otherwise. Besides, what makes armor so special that it would be excluded from this case? Doesn't make much sense. Maybe you should try testing again :p

Btw, there isn't a huge difference between 5% armor bonus and 3.5% armor bonus.

Did your sources test as well? I had serancha slash me about 50 times with archon of potency and 50 times with a random legendary ring without armor increase.
I thought durability would kick in and get exact same results but they differed. What method did your sources use?

Yes, that's the glitch that Enegizeric pointed out a long time ago in a buried thread. The description says 2.5% armor bonus, you put it on, do the math, its actually increasing your armor by 5% instead of 2.5%.

[Serancha]

I'd be happy to post the numbers if anyone wants. I think the document is still on my desktop.

[Cero]

I'd be happy to post the numbers if anyone wants. I think the document is still on my desktop.

Pls and thank you.

[JaytB]

I've always been saying there was something off with the +dmg% calculation and that it was also most probably the reason why we didn't see those stats appear in our stats window.

It's kind of a let down that at least passive damage isn't stacked. Although, it's good to know that just about everyone with a +dmg% pet has been wasting 5 precious skill points on a useless stat. Thanks for clearing that up.

Maybe it's time for STS to act, and make our damage stat in our stats window actually reflect the exact damage we're getting.. Including elixirs, pets, passives, gear (even if it's only the highest number that counts, everything should be included). We've been promised this for literally over a year and it would have prevented the entire community having to guess where to best put their stat points in.

[utpal]

for this reason my war has 7skill build lol.

[Wutzgood]

This just had me thinking what happens when you wear mythic armor, blood ruby and mythic amulet that all have damage bonus? Do they stack or only the highest works?

[conradev]

As a web developer I write code according to the functionality I am asked to provide, I don't write code and then find out what it does after. Every line of code is written specifically to implement a certain functionality. This is the same in all fields of development - web, apps, software, gaming, etc.

Whoever coded the elixir stacking would have had to be following the game designer's instructions. Unless there was some rogue coder giggling and saying "ooh let's just leave these unstackable" without telling anyone (unlikely), it would have been a decision made when building the game.


Edit:

Pet damage is only obsolete IF you are using a damage elixir. The biggest points discussed so far are:
• Pet damage is nulled when using damage or combo elixirs
• Combo elixirs and single damage elixirs do not stack.
• Passive damage is useless when using a pet with damage %
• Archon damage bonus is overwritten by just about everything
• Shadow veil damage upgrade is part of this damage-non-stacking thing. So Abaddon and Shadow Veil do not work together.

Please keep this post updated with the latest "biggest points". Thanks

[conradev]

I want my platinum back for all the damage elixers I bought during combo...which was all of them.

I want every last platinum of it...

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[Serancha]

This just had me thinking what happens when you wear mythic armor, blood ruby and mythic amulet that all have damage bonus? Do they stack or only the highest works?

This has nothing to do with it. The issue is only on percent based damage. Hard coded static numbers (like 3.0 damage on a full circuit of potency) do not change. They are built into the item.

However the stat numbers on gear often appear to have no relation to the stats they provide, or else only some of the calculated variables are listed. There's some super messed up math in the weapons areas, which implies the "stats" displayed on an item are often just for show. This is why we have a preview window in the cs though. It is just hoped that it shows something close to the truth.

[Serancha]

Pls and thank you.


Archon Armor / Passive Durability Test

Purpose: Verify if archon armor % has an effect while specced with durability, or if the ring's bonus is overwritten by the passive.

Test subject: Ravagerx. Big burley warrior specced with 5 passive durability. Testing with and without armor % archon ring.

Specific: Testing in CTF arena. These results may be different for PvE.


Test 1:

Single non-crit slashes with archon equipped.

Sample size: 50 hits

Highest hit: 162
Lowest hit: 138

Average damage: 150



Test 2:

Single non-crit slashes with a generic ring equipped.

Sample size: 50 hits

Highest hit: 176
Lowest hit: 145

Average damage: 161



Conclusion: The archon of Potency ring blocks more damage than a non-archon ring, meaning it does still give it's armor % bonus, even with durability passive specced. It is not over-written in the PvP arena.

(side note that although I do not count crits in the data, there was a noticable increase in criticals scored for Test 2)

[Ravager]

I want my platinum back for all the damage elixers I bought during combo...which was all of them.

I want every last platinum of it...

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

At least let us respec out of the crummy builds we have with a free respec weekend.

[Serancha]

Test for Archon Damage % Ring / Damage % Pet

Purpose: Verify if archon damage % has an effect while using a damage pet, or if the ring's bonus is overwritten by the pet's % buff.

Test subject: Serancha: Super-cute Rogue equipped with Flapjack (15% damage). Testing with and without archon damage ring.

Specific: Testing in CTF arena. These results may be different for PvE. I have NO passive damage specced.

Gear: Both rings used gave the same damage, pre-archon % boost. IE: If I wear the non-archon ring, and inspect the archon without equipping it, the damage is equal. This is the pre-buff damage, since the archon only shows it's % buff on stats when equipped.


Control:

Single non-crit slashes with no pet and no archon.

Sample size: 50 hits

Highest hit: 162
Lowest hit: 138

Average damage: 150


Test 1:

Single non-crit slashes with Flapjack (15%) and archon equipped.

Sample size: 30 hits

Highest hit: 175
Lowest hit: 142

Average damage: 158



Test 2:

Single non-crit slashes with Flapjack (15%) and non-archon ring equipped.

Sample size: 30 hits

Highest hit: 171
Lowest hit: 139

Average damage: 157



Conclusion: With a pet giving 15% damage, the increase over the non-pet damage was only 5%, which is 10% below the pet's normal boost. This 10% cut is most likely due to class balancing in pvp.

The damage was no better with archon than without, meaning when a 15% damage pet is used in pvp, you get a 5% damage buff which overrides the archon.



Follow-up test with 5% damage pet

This test is identical to the one above, with the only difference being that this one is using Timber, who has a 5% damage buff, rather than Flapper with 15%.


Test 1:

Single non-crit slashes with Timber (5%) and archon equipped.

Sample size: 30 hits

Highest hit: 177
Lowest hit: 142

Average damage: 162



Test 2:

Single non-crit slashes with Timber (5%) and non-archon ring equipped.

Sample size: 30 hits

Highest hit: 167
Lowest hit: 138

Average damage: 150



Conclusion: A pet with 5% damage buff does not have its damage calculated at all in pvp. The damage with it is identical to using no pet. Therefore, when you equip a damage archon, the ring's damage buff is applied, since there is no other buffs to take precedent.



10% damage pets: Because the pet damage % buffs are dropped by 10% for pvp, it is most likely that any pet giving 10% will act the same way as my Timber did, and have none of its % damage added on. This means that wearing archon (or using passive damage) is advisable when using one of these pets. However, I did not have time to actually test a 10% one so this is not proven.

[Kakashis]

I think what we all thought was that we would get benefits from stacking. Now that we know that it's just the highest variable, some of us feel cheated. It's no wonder whenever I purchased +25% damage lix, we still couldn't Crack egg because it was only 10 damage more. Can't believe it's so different from what we all expected. Had I known, I would have never spec in damage passive. Upon some testing, a fellow guild member also had no difference in damage bonus from archon rings using pets 10% damage and up. It's all about perception and I think it's safe to say we assumed it stacked because other things stack.

Not sure if anything should be or can be done, but my veil has officially become tank support and not damage based. I will drop it and not even bother with being inside with risk of getting one hitted. This makes bows much more viable than daggers for the foreseeable future for pve.

[Madnex]

Points removed, turns out Samael's damage buff does not take effect for any of the three classes as the pet itself is bugged. Will have to rerun some tests after it's fixed.

[Serancha]

PvE Elixir junkies need to put passive elsewhere though.

[Madnex]

PvE Elixir junkies need to put passive elsewhere though.
Indeed but I'd expect those who roll in PvE to have six actives itfp.
Suggested passives build for elixir-injected PvE'ers:
5/5 Might,
5/5 Intelligence,
5/5 Agility,
5/5 Critical.

Is there any test done on whether damage reduction elixir overrides armor passive? If it doesn't, instead of Critical a tank can go for Armor passiv.e

[Kakashis]

Indeed but I'd expect those who roll in PvE to have six actives itfp.
Suggested passives build for elixir-injected PvE'ers:
5/5 Might,
5/5 Intelligence,
5/5 Agility,
5/5 Critical.

Is there any test done on whether damage reduction elixir overrides armor passive? If it doesn't, instead of Critical a tank can go for Armor passiv.e

Still waiting on the reduction damage testing. Heck if it stacks a rogue might be better off 5% armor and also stand in a veil plus a lix XD

[GoodSyntax]

I believe a few have tested it and claim that armor does not stack, but I will test it tomorrow and post it to my main thread on this subject.

Shoot....there goes 15 plat on 3 respecs :-(

This thing is draining me dry!

[Limitational]

Someone clarify this since I keep reading different posts.
I have samael
I have a perfect archon of potency dex
so my 5/5 damage passive is useless right ? And what about my archon ? Do I have to go buy a different ring because the 2% doesn't work because of my 5% passive and Sams 10% ?

[Madnex]

Someone clarify this since I keep reading different posts.
I have samael
I have a perfect archon of potency dex
so my 5/5 damage passive is useless right ? And what about my archon ? Do I have to go buy a different ring because the 2% doesn't work because of my 5% passive and Sams 10% ?
Sam has 10% which overrides both passive 5% and of course archon's 2.5%. However, the 10% damage debuff aka PvP damage nerf makes Sam's 10% --> 0%. So passive damage 5% kicks in, now overriding archon.

Therefore, archon provides no damage boost at your current build in PvP.

[Serancha]

I believe a few have tested it and claim that armor does not stack, but I will test it tomorrow and post it to my main thread on this subject.

Shoot....there goes 15 plat on 3 respecs :-(

This thing is draining me dry!


Armor at the top of this page :) Curious about PvE on that though.

I am not even going to start testing armor reduction. I don't have the insanity level for that one.

[Limitational]

Sam has 10% which overrides both passive 5% and of course archon's 2.5%. However, the 10% damage debuff aka PvP damage nerf makes Sam's 10% --> 0%. So passive damage 5% kicks in, now overriding archon.

Therefore, archon provides no damage boost at your current build in PvP.

Haven't pvped since 36 cap. So sam overrides everything for pve I'm guessing?

[Madnex]

Haven't pvped since 36 cap. So sam overrides everything for pve I'm guessing?
For PvE, you may as well get rid of both passive and archon. The only thing to take note of is that when you run on 25% damage increase elixir, Sam's 10% is overriden as well. So for those cases you're better off with a non damage pet.

[GoodSyntax]

Armor at the top of this page :) Curious about PvE on that though.

I am not even going to start testing armor reduction. I don't have the insanity level for that one.

Fortunately for everyone, I'm a glutton.

I will be testing with 5/5 Armor passive, with Shadow Veil and with DMG Reduction Elixir (15% IIRC). So, we shall see definitively whether armor stacks or not....I suspect not, since that is what null_void implied. But, here goes 15 plat and 30k.

I'm hoping that I discover Shadow Veil stacks since it is a skill upgrade...If it does, then it's plat and gold well spent!

[Madnex]

Glad to know but if you're basing this off the first upgrade of Aimed Shot being effective you might want to consider the difference; Veil's effects show up as bufs, Aimed Shot's damage doesn't. :P

[GoodSyntax]

Aimed Shot does show up as a buff...you get the weapon icon, representing DMG buff.

Come on, keep those fingers crossed! Let a poor Rogue dream

[Classychic]

Aimed Shot does show up as a buff...you get the weapon icon, representing DMG buff.

Come on, keep those fingers crossed! Let a poor Rogue dream

I don't see a dmg buff (crossed swords) when I use Aimed shot, only the Crit buff (single upright sword).

[Serancha]

I have never seen aimed shot show as a damage buff. That is why I always beleived that upgrade was a skill feature, not a buff. But I might be wrong, I am bad at observing things outside testing.

[Madnex]

Aimed Shot does show up as a buff...you get the weapon icon, representing DMG buff.

Come on, keep those fingers crossed! Let a poor Rogue dream
84317

[Nesox]

Does the PvP nerf apply before or after all other buffs? If it removed off our base damage before the buffs then the 10% pets would still be better than the 5% passives.

[Serancha]

I am not sure I understand. I don't think anything is removed from our stats.

The pet damage buff that gets added is 10% less than what the pet's statistics show. If that calculates to be 0 or less, then it treats it as no buff at all. Nothing gets altered.

So using a 5% damage pet was the same as using no pet.

Using a 15% damage pet gave a 5% damage buff.

So a 12% pet would give 2%, and a 10% pet would give 0, assuming everything uses the same formula.

[Madnex]

Does the PvP nerf apply before or after all other buffs? If it removed off our base damage before the buffs then the 10% pets would still be better than the 5% passives.
84320

PvP damage debuff subtracts from highest buff multiplier after it's calculated for the first time. Pets with 10% damage have that aspect cancelled.

[Serancha]

Be nice Madnex, there's a lot of info to absorb.

[Madnex]

Be nice Madnex, there's a lot of info to absorb.
Fixed.

[Kakashis]

Fixed.


Fortunately for everyone, I'm a glutton.

I will be testing with 5/5 Armor passive, with Shadow Veil and with DMG Reduction Elixir (15% IIRC). So, we shall see definitively whether armor stacks or not....I suspect not, since that is what null_void implied. But, here goes 15 plat and 30k.

I'm hoping that I discover Shadow Veil stacks since it is a skill upgrade...If it does, then it's plat and gold well spent!

If shadow veil does stack including damage then I'll be less upset. Hehe when respecs are available for purchase, I'll donate a few to ya!

[Serancha]

Shadow veil damage does not stack. 98.5% positive on that. I am very curious to know about armor, although there's not much that can beat a 20% buff, so it would likely just override any passive armor people have on.

[Kellhus]

This has nothing to do with it. The issue is only on percent based damage. Hard coded static numbers (like 3.0 damage on a full circuit of potency) do not change. They are built into the item.

However the stat numbers on gear often appear to have no relation to the stats they provide, or else only some of the calculated variables are listed. There's some super messed up math in the weapons areas, which implies the "stats" displayed on an item are often just for show. This is why we have a preview window in the cs though. It is just hoped that it shows something close to the truth.

This explains why two identical items can give two completely different stats?

...

[Serancha]

The questionable numbers I was referring to were on weapons, so did not have any "damage stats" so to speak (static or percentage), at least not listed on their description. It's a discussion for another topic. I was just pointing out that numbers are frequently inaccurate.

[Haligali]

and a 10% pet would give 0

Ok its just in pvp, but i cant belive if its true, i find it very unfair. :/

[Madnex]

Another edit, turns out there were class-specific nerfs not class-global. Refer to link on my signature for more info.

[Haligali]

It's true, it was a speculation we confirmed through tests. It was done to make PvP more fun by making the fights last longer. I don't believe they gave us the exact raw percentage of the global PvP nerf but it's certainly in the changelog somewhere a few months back.

If its a part of a global dmg nerf in pvp, then its a very-very-very bad implementation. A pet with 10% should give more damage than a pet with 0 damage bonus on happyness, in any case.

[Serancha]

It should, but I did a small test after reading your post Hali, and it looks like the pattern is indeed the same.

I'd need to do a full data set to be 100% sure, but for a small sample size (15 hits of each) the difference between a 10% damage pet and using no pet at all, was about 2 damage when the sets were averaged.

I was having issues with excessive critting so had trouble getting good numbers on it this round, but I can say for sure that you're not getting 10% or even 5% damage boost from a 10% damage pet in pvp. Will do a full test at a later date.

[Haligali]

It should, but I did a small test after reading your post Hali, and it looks like the pattern is indeed the same.

I'd need to do a full data set to be 100% sure, but for a small sample size (15 hits of each) the difference between a 10% damage pet and using no pet at all, was about 2 damage when the sets were averaged.

I was having issues with excessive critting so had trouble getting good numbers on it this round, but I can say for sure that you're not getting 10% or even 5% damage boost from a 10% damage pet in pvp. Will do a full test at a later date.

Hmm so, if i use a pet with only 10% damage bonus, then the 5% passive damage skill point still worth in pvp?

[Anarchist]

Hmm so, if i use a pet with only 10% damage bonus, then the 5% passive damage skill point still worth in pvp?

Good question.

If the rule applies the highest damage buff but then the highest damage buff is nerfed to zero.....



Meh i sincerely feel scammed. :P

[GoodSyntax]

Testing on 5/5 Armor and Shadow Veil complete...


http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?147850-Are-we-hitting-a-cap-on-percent-based-buffs&p=1590292#post1590292

My conclusion is that 5/5 Armor passive is worthless and that the Armor passive does not stack with Veil.

I welcome any feedback.

[Cero]

Testing on 5/5 Armor and Shadow Veil complete...


http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?147850-Are-we-hitting-a-cap-on-percent-based-buffs&p=1590292#post1590292

My conclusion is that 5/5 Armor passive is worthless and that the Armor passive does not stack with Veil.

I welcome any feedback.


How is the archon bonus and armor passsive?:)

[GoodSyntax]

I didn't test archon bonus, but others have said it doesn't stack.

And, at least for me, the armor passive isn't helping at all.

[Classychic]

Shadow veil > armor passive for rogues then?

So I'm guessing it goes the same for warriors?

[GoodSyntax]

Yes, the buff from veil is noticeable and very useful.

The armor passive on the other hand isn't all that worthwhile. The test results were so poor that I respecced and dropped both DMG and Armor passives.

[Sorcerie]

84442

[Cesliz]

According to this, Scorn is one of the worst pets in the game since it removes 20% armor but adds 20% damage that isn't even noticeable?

[Serancha]

Hmm so, if i use a pet with only 10% damage bonus, then the 5% passive damage skill point still worth in pvp?

Correct. Since the 10% damage bonus is considered "no buff", your passive or archon damage can be used. However you can only use one of the two and have it work.

[Zynzyn]

Thats some good info, thanks. Time for respec.

[Ogani]

Imagine 5/5 DMG passive, 15% DMG Happiness Bonus from your pet Loki, 10% DMG from a party members Arcane Ability on Orion, a 30% DMG bonus from a Combo Elixir and a 15% bonus in DMG% from standing in a Shadow Veil.

What would you expect your damage bonus to be? +75% through straight addition of the bonuses, +98.57% through stacking with the Elixir stacked last?

Whichever way you view it, +75% to almost +100% is grossly overpowered. With most Rogues possessing 450+ DMG, that almost means that you are one-hitting mobs in elite Tindirin.

I think why most people are upset is because STS or the information has not been made available. I think most players would not be utilizing the passive damage bonus or dmg elixirs if this information was readily available. It bothers me that the only people who readily find this are those who go digging in the forums. This is at least my viewpoint. I agree with you that plus 98% dmg is cray cray :P and would take a ton of challenge from this game.

[Ogani]

Correct. Since the 10% damage bonus is considered "no buff", your passive or archon damage can be used. However you can only use one of the two and have it work.
Im not to sure if understand. So you stated that the 10% bonus is considered no buff so your passive damage can be used. But the next sentence states that you can only use one of the two to make it work? I am only asking because Im on the verge of respeccing now and really want to understand this. So basically if my pet has 10% dmg and I have lets say plus 4% in my dmg passive utilized, will I have plus 14% dmg or just the 10% dmg from my pet bc it is higher? Thanks so much in advance

[Kellhus]

Ofc this is all dependent on what pretty you use correct. If you use a pretty with no dmg then your passive kicks in if im reading this correct. Also, do we know that pet stats count first over others? And is the a cap to the dmg? Say if you have pet that is only 2%dmg, passive that is 4% dmg, how does this work? Au I'm sure you've answered this somewhere but to many pages in thread to read thru them all.

...

[GoodSyntax]

Ofc this is all dependent on what pretty you use correct. If you use a pretty with no dmg then your passive kicks in if im reading this correct. Also, do we know that pet stats count first over others? And is the a cap to the dmg? Say if you have pet that is only 2%dmg, passive that is 4% dmg, how does this work? Au I'm sure you've answered this somewhere but to many pages in thread to read thru them all.

...

The single highest buff wins, so in your scenario, the 4% passive will take effect and the 2% from your pet will be dropped. But, once you step into a Shadow Veil, the buff there is greater, so while in the veil, you will receive a 20% buff until the smoke dissipates, at which point, you drop back down to 4%

[AL_Newbie]

what about critical shot passive?

[Kellhus]

The single highest buff wins, so in your scenario, the 4% passive will take effect and the 2% from your pet will be dropped. But, once you step into a Shadow Veil, the buff there is greater, so while in the veil, you will receive a 20% buff until the smoke dissipates, at which point, you drop back down to 4%

Got it. So if you dont use any dmg pet or other dmg buff skills your passive are good to go. How does great factor into this? Sry sry im sure you answered these already.

...

[GoodSyntax]

what about critical shot passive?

Crit falls under a different stat system - so whatever you have will be honored.

[GoodSyntax]

How does great factor into this?
...

Not sure what you meant to say there...

[UndeadJudge]

what about critical shot passive?

It stacks normally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kellhus]

Not sure what you meant to say there...

Gear* sigh predictive text gotta love it. I mean does gear dmg bonus play a part in any of this?

...

[Nesox]

The single highest buff wins, so in your scenario, the 4% passive will take effect and the 2% from your pet will be dropped. But, once you step into a Shadow Veil, the buff there is greater, so while in the veil, you will receive a 20% buff until the smoke dissipates, at which point, you drop back down to 4%

As I understand it so far... Damage = [Base damage] * [=MAX(passive bonus, pet bonus, skill bonus, elix bonus)] where =MAX returns the largest value in the series.

I believe your logic is flawed unless I am missing something. I am still having trouble seeing the logic behind the 5% passive kicking in after the 10% nerf has been applied. That 5% has already been considered and discarded by the formula. At no time would the passive be used in PvP.

Just to clarify the pvp nerf is only applied to buffs to a maximum of 10% and not applied to total damage?
IE: [Base Damage * 10% pet bonus * 10% nerf] = [Base Damage * 5% passive bonus * 10% nerf]

Or is it possble to return a value less than base damage for bonuses less than 10%?





EDIT: Deleted the second formula as I realized it was not correctly describing what I was getting at and I was too tired to add the adjustments to make it compute correctly.

[GoodSyntax]

I am not entirely sure how it is calculated in PvP...Serancha and others have done more research in the arena that I have.

As far as I know, in PvE, your first formula is spot on. The single largest buff will rule, so whether that comes from passive, pet, skill or elixir, only one will be used for calculation.

Debuffs, as I understand works against the largest single buff, so if you have a 15% buff, then a 10% debuff, you retain a 5% buff (15% Buff - 10% Debuff = 5% Buff).

The key takeaway from all of this is that if you are running with Elixirs, then pet and passives aren't helping you in any way. If you have a pet bonus, then your passive won't be helping. While you are in Shadow Veil, only a Combo Elixir (30% DMG buff) will be stronger, otherwise Veil will be the strongest buff.

Based on that, I found limited value in both DMG and Armor passives, and if I have any kind of DMG elixir, I don't bother using % DMG pets, and instead use stat modifying pets.

[Xpolosion]

Fix singe

[Veluthe]

Ok so basically what we are saying is dmg and armorial passives useless correct? So does pet % stack with veil though? Is veil even worth it? Does crit passive apply same as these passives? All this time I thought the % was stacking. I don't use elixir however. So with this new found knowledge where Should I allocate these useless points? In skills? Either way points will be wasted Cu's 5-6 skills would be hard to utilize swapping out I think. Perhaps this all is bug afterall these passives never showed in stats. If they truly are useless and we should put more points in skills then I think we really need more skill slots or need new stuff. What's the point having the passives if they are useless. Sigh....:(

[GoodSyntax]

DMG and Armor passives do not stack - they will be overridden by any other buff that would be greater (including pet bonuses or elixirs). DMG and Armor passives are of limited use since most of the top pets give you a DMG % bonus, which would likely be higher than the max of 5% that you get via passive.

Veil is very much worth it! The buffs from standing in fully upgraded veil is nearly equal to a DMG and Armor elixirs combined.

Passives are useful for that time when your veil is on cooldown only if you do not use a pet that gives you a DMG or Armor modifier (assuming you don't get DMG elixirs from Klaas).

Personally, I went 5/5 in Crit, INT, STR and DEX.

[Sorcerie]

Does anyone else agree that dam, movement, and armor passive skills should stack with pets?

I mean, if nothing else these should be the only ones in the game that can stack or else what was the point in having them?

[Serancha]

Agreed. Shadow storm, razor, rally cry and now passives. I hope the new skill system comes soon, because we're running out of useful places to put our points....

[Kellhus]

What's people suggestions for having a situation of using half dmg pets and half crit pets? I still opted to not point passive dmg, even if i use my crit pets, bc i also have veil. Any other thoughts? Thanks.

...

[extrapayah]

all passives should stack... it meant to increase any stats permanently, and it cost a lot (1 skill point each)... kind of ridiculous knowing that some of it aren't stacking with others...

[Limitational]

I'm meh towards the other stuff. One things for sure this client update better at least make the archon damage be able to be combined with my pet or elixir. The fact that they knew the archon was basically useless yet rode it off as it was the best pve ring for rogues is sickening. I paid 3m for my ring about one month into shuyal, if it weren't for that accidental drop rate bug when the crafting was introduced the ring would still be 2m+ .
I'm dissapointed and hope this client update comes in the next week or two, because saying it will be here "soon" is just giving false hope. Just like how you guys said you would "soon" fix other issues like 5 months ago.

Sigh, it's things like this that make people lose faith in the company they put a lot of money into. ;(

[extrapayah]

anyway, people might be not interested but:

1. movement bonus doesn't stack at all, so max = elix bonus
2. warcry increase ms give ms as fast as elix... -> 25% instead of written 10%

[Energizeric]

I know that speed bonus maxes out at 25%, but if you have a 15% speed bonus from shiloh and you have 5% passive speed bonus, do you end up with 20% or does the shiloh bonus cancel out the passive bonus?

[Sorcerie]

I know that speed bonus maxes out at 25%, but if you have a 15% speed bonus from shiloh and you have 5% passive speed bonus, do you end up with 20% or does the shiloh bonus cancel out the passive bonus?Shiloh will cancel out your 5% movement bonus, which is why im saying these passives should stack.

[uunknownn]

question please..i am using 10%dmg pet in pvp and a 10%dmg increase in my aimshot is it stacking ?=20%dmg
or the other 10% is useless?pls need an answer so i dont need to waste my skill point on it if ever.thanks

[GoodSyntax]

question please..i am using 10%dmg pet in pvp and a 10%dmg increase in my aimshot is it stacking ?=20%dmg
or the other 10% is useless?pls need an answer so i dont need to waste my skill point on it if ever.thanks

The buff from Aimed Shot does work as expected (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?147850-Are-we-hitting-a-cap-on-percent-based-buffs&p=1586687&viewfull=1#post1586687).

Also, the buff from pets work (though be aware of the highest buff wins scenario).

Individually, both work, but I have not tested both together; but, I do recall Null_Void saying that passives, elixirs and pets fall under one branch of code, and other buffs falling under another branch that is unaffected by the highest buff wins case. Without concrete testing, I would assume that since the buff only affects Aimed Shot damage, that it falls under the latter branch of code, so in your case, you should see an effective +20% DMG on Aimed Shot.

[uunknownn]

thanks for the usefull ans.:)

[nscacpt]

passive damage test in pvp in TDM against rogue (guild mate) 15 hit sample with dagger....all conditions were the same for each test

with damage passive 5/5 ...no pet (Samuel) 461.9 x .05 = 23.095 (461.9 + 23.095 = 484.995 damage)
1. 185
2. 207
3. 310 crit
4. 197
5. 296 crit
6. 197
7. 192
8. 290 crit
9. 220
10. 194
11. 341
12. 194
13. 182
14. 227 crit
15. 308 crit

203 average


without damage passive 5/5..no pet (Samuel) (461.9 damage)
1. 274 crit
2. 316 crit
3. 193
4. 188
5. 331 crit
6. 193
7. 316 crit
8. 222
9. 340 crit
10. 183
11. 189
12. 316 crit
13. 340 crit
14. 284 crit
15. 213

average 259


with damage passive 5/5 and with pet Samuel (484.9 damage)
1. 194
2. 237
3. 331 crit
4. 212
5. 211
6. 212
7. 204
8. 230
9. 199
10. 197
11. 350 crit
12. 204
13. 304 crit
14. 214
15. 206

average 233


Without damage passive 5/5 ..with pet Samuel (461.9 damage)
1. 204
2. 301 crit
3. 229
4. 220
5. 317
6. 328 crit
7. 317 crit
8. 203
9. 225
10. 306 crit
11. 301 crit
12. 212
13. 223
14. 353 crit
15. 343 crit

average 272

[GoodSyntax]

passive damage test in pvp in TDM against rogue (guild mate) 15 hit sample with dagger....all conditions were the same for each test

with damage passive 5/5 ...no pet (Samuel) 461.9 x.005 = 23.095 (461.9 + 23.095 = 484.995 damage)
1. 185
2. 207
3. 310 crit
4. 197
5. 296 crit
6. 197
7. 192
8. 290 crit
9. 220
10. 194
11. 341
12. 194
13. 182
14. 227 crit
15. 308 crit

203 average


without damage passive 5/5..no pet (Samuel) (461.9 damage)
1. 274 crit
2. 316 crit
3. 193
4. 188
5. 331 crit
6. 193
7. 316 crit
8. 222
9. 340 crit
10. 183
11. 189
12. 316 crit
13. 340 crit
14. 284 crit
15. 213

average 259


with damage passive 5/5 and with pet Samuel (484.9 damage)
1. 194
2. 237
3. 331 crit
4. 212
5. 211
6. 212
7. 204
8. 230
9. 199
10. 197
11. 350 crit
12. 204
13. 304 crit
14. 214
15. 206

average 233


Without damage passive 5/5 ..with pet Samuel (461.9 damage)
1. 204
2. 301 crit
3. 229
4. 220
5. 317
6. 328 crit
7. 317 crit
8. 203
9. 225
10. 306 crit
11. 301 crit
12. 212
13. 223
14. 353 crit
15. 343 crit

average 272

This is a very small sample, and you have to throw out critical hits. Averaging in crits will throw off your result significantly!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[Madnex]

Fifteen is a very low pool sample I'd try fifty and up for more reliable results. Also, criticals need to be ignored in this. I believe Serancha had a guide on the guidelines of testing, I'll see if I can dig it up. :)

[Kakashis]

It feels like speed passive 5 does stack on your pet no?

[Classychic]

It feels like speed passive 5 does stack on your pet no?

Does it? But maxed out passive speed doesn't feel like anything at all without a speed pet equipped. :(

[Kakashis]

Just did some testing, it too like damage doesn't stack. My god its so different from our expectations

[GoodSyntax]

Just did some testing, it too like damage doesn't stack. My god its so different from our expectations

If I recall correctly, there is a cap to the maximum speed buff.....I believe it is either 25 or 30%.

[Serancha]

I agree. Speed does stack, up to a certaain point. But there is only so fast you can run.

[Serancha]

This is a very small sample, and you have to throw out critical hits. Averaging in crits will throw off your result significantly!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

You also can't use Sam to test, since he changes too many other variables. If you want to test damge, you need a pet that adds only damage, or damage and something like dodge that wont affect results - squash is a good one.

Guide - How to test stat variables and get clean results (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?148547-Guide-How-to-test-stat-variables-and-get-clean-results)

[extrapayah]

Does anyone else agree that dam, movement, and armor passive skills should stack with pets?

I mean, if nothing else these should be the only ones in the game that can stack or else what was the point in having them?

100% agree... the value is too small to be not stackable, while the cost is too much for 5 skill points (the story will be different if we're given more than 1 point per level, lol)

i definitely don't mind if they have cap or limit, but... too bad for us, hahaha