Major damage bug on warrior gear

[mitno]

When i equip Magma claymore assault instead of Maul i loose 160 damage but my skills damage go up. It is not only happens in display, I also tested it in fight and the result is that with claymore I hit distinctively harder.
I always thought skill's damage is a derivative of damage stat, isnt it?
Here are screens:
With maul:
85783

with Claymore:
85784

p.s. it happens not only with Claymore, it hapens with all lvl 40+ warrior weapons.

[mitno]

After farther investigation, it seems that the lvl of the gear effects the damage of the skills.
Which raises even more questions as to the efficiency of all current mythics.
I haven't tested other types of gear yet (armors, helms, amulets and ect.), but this may change the entire equipment considered OP. For all Classes!

[Ogani]

After farther investigation, it seems that the lvl of the gear effects the damage of the skills.
Which raises even more questions as to the efficiency of all current mythics.
I haven't tested other types of gear yet (armors, helms, amulets and ect.), but this may change the entire equipment considered OP. For all Classes!
I found this out when I originally got a claymore. I have now ran and PvP with both sets of gear And by far the maul isbest weapon in the game . For some reason the Claymore does stack up when it comes to skills but that is the only place it provides more damage. But again it should be adjusted by developers

[Ogani]

and don't worry I have tested it with other pieces of equipment the damage Lowers considerably when not wearing mythic gear.but this weapon skill damage should be no where near that of the hall it is not okay please developers fix this immediately

[Bret Corey]

Yeah no legend weapons should be anywhere near the the same skill dmg as an arcane let alone more than a arcane weapon....

[aarrgggggg]

the maul has been in the game for 3 seasons now its days are numbered

[Morholt]

The damages should be close to each other.
A lvl 31 arcane item is the same as a lvl 41 elite legendary.

HOWEVER, the maul's damage should be higher one, as maul weapons are supposed to be the warriors high damage/low dps weapon.


Edit: it has already been seen that the lvl 36 mythic glaive shows higher damage in the skill screen than the maul--both weapons are lvl 41 legendaries, the maul is supposed to be the damage weapon still, with the glaive having better dps & low damage in the stat screen.

[Xbadboyx]

You are talking about level31 arcane weapon bro , and you are comparing it with legendary weapon +10 levels ,however the maul is still good only bcs of the proc which is deadly , maybe at level51 the arcane ring level41 will become as same as legendary ring .

[Anarchist]

Legendary should be no where near arcane?

Err we are talking of 10 level gaps here.

How long do you guys want to keep using that ollerus maul, till lv 100?

[Energizeric]

Whether or not a level 41 legendary item should be comparable to a level 31 arcane item is a separate debate which has little to do with the OP's complaint. If the damage shown on the stat screen is higher for one weapon, then the skill damage should also be higher. If it is not, then there is something wrong which needs to be fixed.

I'm really getting tired of this happening. We need to stat page to accurately reflect what is happening with our gear. Otherwise there is really no way for anyone to judge which gear is better.

[Serancha]

How was the damage output of the two weapons tested? Mathematically or by perception? Without hard numbers from clean testing there's no way to say what the actual difference is.

We all know STS is bad at math (sorry devs, but it's true), but there's no way any level 31 weapon should be better than the top 41 item. Look at hooks. The quills last season were way way higher damage than the level 26 hooks. If anything I would say the maul damage on the stat sheet is off, not the skill damage value of the Magmatic.

We already know the stat display sheet is inaccurate in many many ways. You can also have 2 weapons with the exact same values on their description, yet one has 20 more damage than the other. There's obviously a lot of stuff involved in calculating stats that is not on the display. I don't think this is a magmatic blade problem at all. I've used the blade, it's good, but it's not OP at all.

[supersyan]

maul 1 year old now. and its op at it respective level. it looks like the magma claymore display is not showing properly ( not maul- lol)

[Haligali]

Something not ok indeed. Usually - unlike here - higher damage means higher skill damage and higher dps means higher or faster auto attack.

To the others: he is not complain about maul vs legendary or mythic weapons, re read the op again.

[mitno]

Whether or not a level 41 legendary item should be comparable to a level 31 arcane item is a separate debate which has little to do with the OP's complaint. If the damage shown on the stat screen is higher for one weapon, then the skill damage should also be higher. If it is not, then there is something wrong which needs to be fixed.

I'm really getting tired of this happening. We need to stat page to accurately reflect what is happening with our gear. Otherwise there is really no way for anyone to judge which gear is better.

Exactly what I meant. I could never write it better myself. Thnx!

I have no problem with claymore, or any other weapon, being better than maul. My complaint is that if one weapon is better than the other I want to see it on its stats! The situation where one weapon shows 160 more damage on stats but in reality yields less damage is unacceptable IMHO.

[mitno]

How was the damage output of the two weapons tested? Mathematically or by perception? Without hard numbers from clean testing there's no way to say what the actual difference is.


I haven't done Excel sheet with 200 test data points for each case, if that what you mean by hard numbers. That being said, I think the difference between 548 damage and 390 damage (40 percent difference) should be visible without the need of 200 data points. A very simple test shows that in this case claymoe yields more damage than maul, just as it 's description suggests on the screens i posted in my first entery

[Giuewek]

Oh wow wish I brought magmatic claymore now :/

Sent from my HTC Desire C using Tapatalk

[mitno]

Maybe i wasn't clear enough about what i meant. Here is a clarification:
Maul:
85840

Claymore:
85841

[Giuewek]

I see what you mean magmatic claymore has more skill damage but it doesn't show on the stats?

Sent from my HTC Desire C using Tapatalk

[Bless]

More stat damage yet less skill damage. To me it looks like a full on bug.

[iacito]

I have noticed that all warhammers have less skill DMG than their sword counterparts; mythic glaives also have more skill DMG than the Arcane maul. Maybe for warhammers and swords/glaives, skill DMG is directly related to DPs instead of DMG.

[Serancha]

Maybe for warhammers and swords/glaives, skill DMG is directly related to DPs instead of DMG.

I was thinking this when I looked into it a bit last night. Very possible ^^

[Ogani]

this is exactly my point. I know there is a massive level cap which is completely understandable. But the malls damage has over 120 points more than the Claymore, therefore the mall skill point damage should be higher as well. That is the problem, not get my weapon is arcane at the fact that the damage should be higher as well
Whether or not a level 41 legendary item should be comparable to a level 31 arcane item is a separate debate which has little to do with the OP's complaint. If the damage shown on the stat screen is higher for one weapon, then the skill damage should also be higher. If it is not, then there is something wrong which needs to be fixed.

I'm really getting tired of this happening. We need to stat page to accurately reflect what is happening with our gear. Otherwise there is really no way for anyone to judge which gear is better.

[Ebezaanec]

Maul = Raw dmg (auto attack)

Claymore = Skill dmg

[twoxc]

so does this mean...

staff=raw gun=skill

daggger=raw and bow=skill?

or vice versa LOL something is off. why only warrior weapon...


Maul = Raw dmg (auto attack)

Claymore = Skill dmg

[Samdegreat]

I noticed it was op when warriors where critting 800-1000 on me XD
But I don't think it needs to be changed :)

[Zeus]

This is not a bug, allow me to explain!

First off, this is old coding ported over from PL. This coding is also present in SL, DL, and AL.

So, what is skill damage?
• Skill damage is the amount of damage that you will do when using a particular skill.

What is attack damage?
• Attack damage is the amount of damage that you will do when using the attack button.

What is skill damage based on?
• Skill damage is based on the weapon's level and weapon type. Thus, there are different classes of weapons. A maul is considered a heavy hitting weapon due to its high attack damage stat. So, to balance it, it has lower skill damage. If you compare a legendary sword to a maul, you should find the skill damage pretty similar. So, to the OP, this is why you are seeing that all L40 weapons have higher skill damage than the maul.

So, to answer your question:
No, this is not a bug. A sword is a high DPS weapon with low attack damage, but in return, it will give you higher skill damage. The glaive is the same way in this aspect! If you check a glaive, the skill damage is ~60 higher than the maul.

Does that make the magmatic sword better than the maul?
• Not necessarily. Remember, a warrior has very few attack skills and a large portion of his damage is done through the attack button. So, depending on the build, one weapon might suit you better. More attack skills = preference to sword. Less attack skills = preference to maul.


So in short, Iacito is right and y'all just skirted over his comment! :/

[Serancha]

Interesting that the magmatic of assault 40 gives 34 skill damage more than the 40 entombed of security,

yet, assuming the 41 was used for the arcane maul comparison, that only gives 39 more skill damage than the arcane maul?

Unless my ability to read is way off, that means the entombed of security would have almost the same skill damage as the arcane maul.....implying a display issue on maul as well. Someone might want to check this. I don't have an arcane maul, so I don't have these rich people problems. :disillusionment:

[Zeus]

Interesting that the magmatic of assault 40 gives 34 skill damage more than the 40 entombed of security,

yet, assuming the 41 was used for the arcane maul comparison, that only gives 39 more skill damage than the arcane maul?

Unless my ability to read is way off, that means the entombed of security would have almost the same skill damage as the arcane maul.....implying a display issue on maul as well. Someone might want to check this. I don't have an arcane maul, so I don't have these rich people problems. :disillusionment:

Hey Serancha,

Level plays an effect for skill damage as well! I think I stated it in my post, iirc.

[Serancha]

It does, but not that much from 40-41. Remember I've been doing testing gear for well over a year, I know the basics. I agree there's likely a bug somewhere, but I don't believe the claymore is in need of a nerf.

[Zeus]

It does, but not that much from 40-41. Remember I've been doing testing gear for well over a year, I know the basics. I agree there's likely a bug somewhere, but I don't believe the claymore is in need of a nerf.

What's the damage difference of gear from 35 to 36?

It might be a bigger difference due to it being an elite level.

[falmear]

Whats the point of show stats then? If Show stats is meaningless then how can you determine what your skill damage will be if the damage stat has no relation to skill damage. This looks like a bug to me, if not we need a better explanation from one of the devs. Not people making up random explanations.

[mitno]

The skill Damage is level dependent 100%. I can post another screen of maul vs Entombed warfare 40. Maul is better in both damage and dps but yet have less skill damage than entombed. My conclusion here is that all the above mentioned damage/dps explanations are not correct.
Moreover, my logic says, the heavy but slow weapon should yield the higher skill damage, while the quick and agile sword should yield lower skill damage but high dps.
In any case, I think that the stats must reflect the damage done by a certain weapon. The assumption must be that when I choose a weapon I don't own it. Hence, the only data available for me to make my decision is stats the weapon displays. So when a certain weapon, Entombed warfare 40 for example, causes a lost in ALL stats, I would expect it to yield less damage. Right now it is not the case

[Zeus]

Whats the point of show stats then? If Show stats is meaningless then how can you determine what your skill damage will be if the damage stat has no relation to skill damage. This looks like a bug to me, if not we need a better explanation from one of the devs. Not people making up random explanations.

It's not random explanations, it is confirmed from a developer from way back in PL. Search the forums; your join date is April 2013. That is 3 years of data that you missed out on.

This is not something new at all and honestly, I thought it was known already.

There's an example in that game: demonic mace vs. orlok sword. The mace has very high attack damage but attack speed and lower skill damage. The sword has medium attack damage but high attack speed and higher skill damage.

The general rule is:
• Slower attacking weapons but higher damage = lower skill damage
• Faster attacking weapons but lower damage = higher skill damage

[mitno]

It's not random explanations, it is confirmed from a developer from way back in PL. Search the forums; your join date is April 2013. That is 3 years of data that you missed out on.

This is not something new at all and honestly, I thought it was known already.

There's an example in that game: demonic mace vs. orlok sword. The mace has very high attack damage but attack speed and lower skill damage. The sword has medium attack damage but high attack speed and higher skill damage.

Bro you miss the point... Its ok for one weapon have higher damage and lower skill damage. But one of the stats must reflect it.

[Zeus]

Bro you miss the point... Its ok for one weapon have higher damage and lower skill damage. But one of the stats must reflect it.

So you want skill damage to be reflected on the stat menu?

[mitno]

So you want skill damage to be reflected on the stat menu?

If skill damage is not a direct derivative of damage stats -YES
As long as there is no such stat i would expect a weapon that is superior in all stats to yield better skill damage

[alexdroog]

I am confused now.
Is entombed warfare or magma assault better for PVP now?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100 mit Tapatalk

[mitno]

I am confused now.
Is entombed warfare or magma assault better for PVP now?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9100 mit Tapatalk

probably not. i would still rather use maul. but this is not the issue here

[shatrio]

I after tes Fight with My fren 1 vs 1. Helm, armor, ring and amulet same (no pet). I used Maul and he use bonesaw. Normal attck Maul hit 386 and Bonesaw hit 423. With charge Maul hit 439 and bonesaw hit 512. Sorry my enghlis.

[toxorto]

I think now that the Maul is better only if you are playing pvp at the level 31.
I will not spend over 30 mil. to buy this hammer.
i could easily buy magma of claymore for 1 mil. and thats it. And with the ohter 29 mil i could buy arcane and mythic pets. :P

[mitno]

Just to demonstrate it not damage/dps issue, here is maul vs Entombed warfare lvl 40 screens:
maul:
86019
Entombed warfare lvl 40:
86020
maul vs entombed stats:
86021

As you can see maul is better in every single stat, but somehow the skill damage on maul is higher!
So please explain to me how on earth when i loose 138 damage with entombed my skills damage go up?????

[falmear]

It's not random explanations, it is confirmed from a developer from way back in PL. Search the forums; your join date is April 2013. That is 3 years of data that you missed out on.

This is not something new at all and honestly, I thought it was known already.


One thing that should be apparent is that arcane legends is not pocket legends. This is the exact same logic when used to explain rerolls but yet we found out it doesn't work the same as pocket legends. So now you say there are 3 stats and one is basically invisible

1. Damage
2. DPS
3. Invisible skill damage stat

And when i invisible I mean doesn't show up on the avatar or show stats. So tell us what stat calculates skill damage. Because everyone else seems to think it is #1.

[mitno]

The funny thing is that we always thought that damage determines skills damage while dps determines auto attack damage.
If you compare claymore (more dps) against Entombed (more damage) you will see that Claymore actually yield more skills damage than Entombed.

Something is fishy here...

[Zeus]

I after tes Fight with My fren 1 vs 1. Helm, armor, ring and amulet same (no pet). I used Maul and he use bonesaw. Normal attck Maul hit 386 and Bonesaw hit 423. With charge Maul hit 439 and bonesaw hit 512. Sorry my enghlis.

They both have a wide range of damage, so I think that's a bit inconclusive.

[Zeus]

@Falmear

Skill Damage Factors:
• Damage
• DPS/Weapon Type
• Item Level

How to determine this:

Compare weapons! For example? Bonechill bow vs. Mythic Bow...or Razorbacks vs. Mountain Teeth. In my testing, the higher damage weapon of the same weapon type had the higher skill damage.

Next up, we have DPS! Example? L31 Entombed Hammer of Warfare vs L31 Storm Sword of Potency. Higher skill damage goes to Storm Sword of Potency. Also, if possible, keep the item types the same to reduce variance. If you do see a discrepancy, it's most likely due to the "of" suffix. The same is also true for the recurve vs. magmatic blades. The blades have higher DPS, so they get higher skill damage.

Item level! Example? L31 Mountain Teeth vs L35 Mountain Teeth. Both of these weapons are of the same "of" suffix and the attack damage loss is -30 when equipping the L31 one. Yet, on the skill damage page, the L31 Mountain Teeth has a skill damage loss of 50+. In order to compare further, compare a L30 Entombed Hammer of Warfare to a L35 Entombed Hammer of Warfare.

I think this is the closest that we can get to an explanation without a developer themselves commenting which is something I do not expect them to do because we all know how rare it is for them to explain inner workings of the game (rightfully so! I like figuring it out so it doesn't become common knowledge to everybody. Remember, knowledge is power).

[Serancha]

Devourer maul of potency vs Architect blade of assault - both with 2 normal blood gems

This is differences across gear types, as well as 1 non-elite level, with gear that is 4/5 levels below my character. It is possible this scales in any number of ways, and these are all legendary so cross-rarity is not applicable. However, this proves (in actual warrior gear) that the concept is correct. A blade gives higher skill damage than a hammer weapon, even when the stat damage displayed is significantly higher on the maul.

Cross Type & Same Level

Level 36 Dev Maul > has 27.1 MORE stat damage than 36 Architect Blade
Level 35 Dev Maul > has 26.5 MORE stat damage than 35 Architect Blade

Both level 35 and 36 Dev Maul < have 2 LESS skill damage than Architect Blade of the same levels


Cross Level same Type

Level 36 Dev Maul has 6.4 more stat damage than the level 35 Dev Maul
The 36 Architect Blade of Assault has 5.8 more stat damage than 35 Architect Blade

The skill damage is 9 more on the 36 than the 35 for both weapons


Cross Level & Type

The 35 Maul of Potency has 20.7 higher stat damage than 36 architect of assault

The 35 Maul of Potency is 10 lower in skill damage than the 36 architect of assault

[mitno]

Cross Type & Same Level

Level 36 Dev Maul > has 27.1 MORE stat damage than 36 Architect Blade
Level 35 Dev Maul > has 26.5 MORE stat damage than 35 Architect Blade

Both level 35 and 36 Dev Maul < have 2 LESS skill damage than Architect Blade of the same levels


So in addition to the news that weapon lvl effect the skill damage, we also confirmed that the "damage=skill; dps= regular attack" theory is wrong too

[Serancha]

So in addition to the news that weapon lvl effect the skill damage, we also confirmed that the "damage=skill; dps= regular attack" theory is wrong too

Correct. This is another reason that we should never listen to the nefarious "everyone". That guy doesn't know as much as he thinks. Also it proves that tests done in season 1 & 2 should never be used as a rule of thumb in season 6. Much has changed.

[Zeus]

Devourer maul of potency vs Architect blade of assault - both with 2 normal blood gems

This is differences across gear types, as well as 1 non-elite level, with gear that is 4/5 levels below my character. It is possible this scales in any number of ways, and these are all legendary so cross-rarity is not applicable. However, this proves (in actual warrior gear) that the concept is correct. A blade gives higher skill damage than a hammer weapon, even when the stat damage displayed is significantly higher on the maul.

Cross Type & Same Level

Level 36 Dev Maul > has 27.1 MORE stat damage than 36 Architect Blade
Level 35 Dev Maul > has 26.5 MORE stat damage than 35 Architect Blade

Both level 35 and 36 Dev Maul < have 2 LESS skill damage than Architect Blade of the same levels


Cross Level same Type

Level 36 Dev Maul has 6.4 more stat damage than the level 35 Dev Maul
The 36 Architect Blade of Assault has 5.8 more stat damage than 35 Architect Blade

The skill damage is 9 more on the 36 than the 35 for both weapons


Cross Level & Type

The 35 Maul of Potency has 20.7 higher stat damage than 36 architect of assault

The 35 Maul of Potency is 10 lower in skill damage than the 36 architect of assault

Thanks Sera!

I've encountered something strange though...compare the expedition recurve to the expedition bow. The damage difference is 1.5 on the STAT page, but skill damage difference is around 4.

What is your theory?

[Serancha]

That's what I mean by it having the potential to scale in any number of ways.

The difference on rogue and mage weapons generally goes up and down with the stat damage, but not by the same amounts. Like +12 stat damage / +19 skill damage when going from the totem to the gun. (But then the totem has such a sexy proc, who cares about damage :P ). I've noticed similar oddities in rogue weapons of all types.

This maul / sword thing seems to be part of the basic game design, although class-specific to warrior.

I think rogues have something different, however it is not really relevant or worth looking into this season, since the magmatic blades and expedition / raiding bows are almost identical in both stat and skill. We will need to remember to watch for it in future gear though.

[mitno]

Correct. This is another reason that we should never listen to the nefarious "everyone". That guy doesn't know as much as he thinks. Also it proves that tests done in season 1 & 2 should never be used as a rule of thumb in season 6. Much has changed.

in this case what the hell is DPS????? and what is damage good for?????

[Serancha]

Apparently it is different for each class :) time for warriors to start testing.

[Haligali]

I think this anomaly is something similar as the mage guns, the crate guns got lower auto attack than the store guns despite the better dmg and dps stats, as i discovered long time ago in my signature thread. A bit annoying that need to look after everything.

[Zeus]

Is anyone up for making a weapons comparison thread with me for items currently used at end game?

[Madnex]

This has been brought up in the past in both Hali's thread and a few random ones but no one paid much attention:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89787
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?113463



Skill-damage seems to be solely dependent on the main attribute of each class (on the process of testing further). Makes you wonder, what exactly does the "Damage" in one's profile page actually reflect..

[mitno]

Skill-damage seems to be solely dependent on the main attribute of each class (on the process of testing further). Makes you wonder, what exactly does the "Damage" in one's profile page actually reflect..

And apparently the lvl of the weapon

As far as damage goes, assuming dps actually reflects normal attack, reflects mainly the awsomness of your weapon and its price

[Zeus]

This has been brought up in the past in both Hali's thread and a few random ones but no one paid much attention:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89787
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?113463



Skill-damage seems to be solely dependent on the main attribute of each class (on the process of testing further). Makes you wonder, what exactly does the "Damage" in one's profile page actually reflect..

No need to test, I actually forgot about this but a developer has confirmed that skill damage is also based off your attributes.

Wondering if someone can test this for me:
I've always wondered why heal would be based off of damage, not attribute points here as people claim. Can someone test the healing capabilities of a +18 glaive versus a +15 maul? The strength difference is 0, so theoretically, the health should be the same if AL is following the same systems for healing. It's easy to think that it was the damage increase that cause heal to go up, but it actually might be the same system like other legend titles and that healing is based on attributes.

[Grezzil]

Just to demonstrate it not damage/dps issue, here is maul vs Entombed warfare lvl 40 screens:
maul:
86019
Entombed warfare lvl 40:
86020
maul vs entombed stats:
86021

As you can see maul is better in every single stat, but somehow the skill damage on maul is higher!
So please explain to me how on earth when i loose 138 damage with entombed my skills damage go up?????

This one is the best example IMO, can any of the devs shed some light regarding this please

PS. That lvl40 entombed aint even full-gemmed, and it trashes the mauls damage range

[inkredible]

it deff is the bug it doesnt make sense that "level" of weapon should affect the skill damage presented thats just nonsense LOL
ur talking like what mitno said around 20 dmg increase per level? thats ridiculous lol but im also not surprise if DEVS purposely do that
so that old weapons would expire aka maul / arcantestaff .. because i know for a fact that maul will remain pretty much the highest damage even in lvl 46- possible lvl51
its always gonna be somewhat +100 dmg unless they pull out another weapon that tops maul

[inkredible]

No need to test, I actually forgot about this but a developer has confirmed that skill damage is also based off your attributes.

Wondering if someone can test this for me:
I've always wondered why heal would be based off of damage, not attribute points here as people claim. Can someone test the healing capabilities of a +18 glaive versus a +15 maul? The strength difference is 0, so theoretically, the health should be the same if AL is following the same systems for healing. It's easy to think that it was the damage increase that cause heal to go up, but it actually might be the same system like other legend titles and that healing is based on attributes.

attributes meaning passives etc? lol doesnt make sense still because technically speaking he got the same "attributes" and dps shouldnt increase damage skill

[Serancha]

it deff is the bug it doesnt make sense that "level" of weapon should affect the skill damage presented thats just nonsense LOL
ur talking like what mitno said around 20 dmg increase per level? thats ridiculous lol but im also not surprise if DEVS purposely do that
so that old weapons would expire aka maul / arcantestaff .. because i know for a fact that maul will remain pretty much the highest damage even in lvl 46- possible lvl51
its always gonna be somewhat +100 dmg unless they pull out another weapon that tops maul

It shouldn't be. If we go by what they did with hooks, the top weapons this season should be out-performing maul in all except proc. There is no way it should still be the best, come 46 or 51. That's outrageous to even consider. If you want an arcane item that will be good forever, buy a pet.

[Zeus]

attributes meaning passives etc? lol doesnt make sense still because technically speaking he got the same "attributes" and dps shouldnt increase damage skill

Attributes = Int, dex, str.

[falmear]

This has been brought up in the past in both Hali's thread and a few random ones but no one paid much attention:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?89787


If you are talking about the Borean Cage Rifle, then the bug with a certain set of guns that still exists today. On their auto attack they always do a charged attack. And the reason we know this is because in S4, Borean Cage Rifle does this spin attack on a non-charged attack. Other guns that season only do a spin attack on a charged attack. Borean Cage rifle gives more damage on non-charged auto attack then a charged auto attack.



Skill-damage seems to be solely dependent on the main attribute of each class (on the process of testing further). Makes you wonder, what exactly does the "Damage" in one's profile page actually reflect.


This is easily disproved. Go buy and equip these two rings:

1) Lvl 41 Silver Hoop of Brutality
41 INT 21 STR 3.0 DMG

2) Lvl 41 Silver Hoop of Force
42 INT 10 STR 2.88% Crit

Now go check any skill for example with lightning:

1) With Silver Hoop of Brutality gives 972-1215 skill damage for lightning

2) With Silver Hoop of Force gives 952-1190 skill damage for lightning

If you were right, the Silver Hoop of Force should give higher skill damage but it doesn't. But Silver Hoop of Brutality gives higher skill damage despite having lower INT because it gives 3.0 DMG. So how can you say that "Skill-damage seems to be solely dependent on the main attribute of each class" when this is proven false.

[Zeus]

If you are talking about the Borean Cage Rifle, then the bug with a certain set of guns that still exists today. On their auto attack they always do a charged attack. And the reason we know this is because in S4, Borean Cage Rifle does this spin attack on a non-charged attack. Other guns that season only do a spin attack on a charged attack. Borean Cage rifle gives more damage on non-charged auto attack then a charged auto attack.



This is easily disproved. Go buy and equip these two rings:

1) Lvl 41 Silver Hoop of Brutality
41 INT 21 STR 3.0 DMG

2) Lvl 41 Silver Hoop of Force
42 INT 10 STR 2.88% Crit

Now go check any skill for example with lightning:

1) With Silver Hoop of Brutality gives 972-1215 skill damage for lightning

2) With Silver Hoop of Force gives 952-1190 skill damage for lightning

If you were right, the Silver Hoop of Force should give higher skill damage but it doesn't. But Silver Hoop of Brutality gives higher skill damage despite having lower INT because it gives 3.0 DMG. So how can you say that "Skill-damage seems to be solely dependent on the main attribute of each class" when this is proven false.

It's not solely as Mitno pointed out earlier. However, skill damage might be reliant on attribute which is why I requested earlier in the thread for somebody to test the heal of a +18 glaive vs a +15 maul.

I'll ask my guildies later on this, I know they have both.

[mitno]

I tested horn too, it works like the other skills, i.e. higher skill damage - bigger heal

[mitno]

It shouldn't be. If we go by what they did with hooks, the top weapons this season should be out-performing maul in all except proc. There is no way it should still be the best, come 46 or 51. That's outrageous to even consider. If you want an arcane item that will be good forever, buy a pet.

As far as I remember, from dev's comments, arcane items should be OP for 3 seasons. Hence, maul should still be OP this season.
However, I really don't want to make this thread turn to a discussion about the efficiency of the maul vs claymore and whether maul still op or not. It is another issue completely. I made this thread to understand the illogical under-hood mechanics of skill damage. So please lets stay on topic

[falmear]

It's not solely as Mitno pointed out earlier. However, skill damage might be reliant on attribute which is why I requested earlier in the thread for somebody to test the heal of a +18 glaive vs a +15 maul.


1) Lvl 31 Solid Circuit of Warfare
- 30 STR 1.9 Damage 31 Armor
- Gives +7.6 Damage vs not wearing any ring

2) Lvl 37 Gold Hoop of Stability
- 14 STR 37 DEX 2.90% Dodge
- Gives +7.5 Damage vs not wearing any ring

Skill damage of lightning:

1) Lvl 31 Solid Circuit of Warfare gives 909 - 1137 skill damage for lightning
2) Lvl 37 Gold Hoop of Stability gives 909 - 1136 skill damage for lightning

I picked these 2 rings for these specific purposes:

1) The damage boost is very similar but Solid Circuit of Warfare gives me NO STATS that increase my damage except DAMAGE 1.9.
2) Level 37 Gold Hoop of Stability is 6 levels higher then Lvl 31 Solid Circuit of Warfare
3) Solid Circuit of Warfare doesn't give me ANY INT which is the primary stat for mage

So now why do I get 1 skill point higher with a level 31 ring that doesn't give me any INT or DEX which are the only stats which increases damage. Why does a lower level ring give me more 1 skill damage higher?

[Anarchial]

Can I ask a few questions? Did STS ever mention that skill damage depends on only "damage"? If yes, then only the conplaining is valid. But as I think that it was just common folk's knowledge that spread that skill damage is dependant on only damage. As Zeus pointed out that it was stated way before that weapon level is considered in skill damage and is also evident.

So in short no one has the right to complain that weapon damage solely isnt translating to skill damage unless any dev specifically confirmed that weapon damage only decides skill damage. I dont mean to be disrespectful to anyone but imho you cant bash anyone for some common folklore which apparently was wrong.

However if some dev did ever confirm that weapon damage solely defines skill damages then we should definitely take it up to STS by pointing to the thread.

[Zeus]

1) Lvl 31 Solid Circuit of Warfare
- 30 STR 1.9 Damage 31 Armor
- Gives +7.6 Damage vs not wearing any ring

2) Lvl 37 Gold Hoop of Stability
- 14 STR 37 DEX 2.90% Dodge
- Gives +7.5 Damage vs not wearing any ring

Skill damage of lightning:

1) Lvl 31 Solid Circuit of Warfare gives 909 - 1137 skill damage for lightning
2) Lvl 37 Gold Hoop of Stability gives 909 - 1136 skill damage for lightning

I picked these 2 rings for these specific purposes:

1) The damage boost is very similar but Solid Circuit of Warfare gives me NO STATS that increase my damage except DAMAGE 1.9.
2) Level 37 Gold Hoop of Stability is 6 levels higher then Lvl 31 Solid Circuit of Warfare
3) Solid Circuit of Warfare doesn't give me ANY INT which is the primary stat for mage

So now why do I get 1 skill point higher with a level 31 ring that doesn't give me any INT or DEX which are the only stats which increases damage. Why does a lower level ring give me more 1 skill damage higher?

I'm not sure about rings, as this is new code (jewelry did not exist in the previous games). If you can answer that question, that's great. I honestly have no idea.

I'm sure if we do additional testing on jewelry, we could figure out the logic behind that.

The rules that I have mentioned seem to be playing out for the weapons. As a result, I still want to see how the weapons play out in terms of heal.

PS: Thanks for proving that jewelry may/may not follow the rules that I listed. It's something I did not account for. It's appreciated!

[Serancha]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the developers of Arcane Legends, for giving us all so many wonderful opportunities to totally geek out.

[falmear]

I'm not sure about rings, as this is new code (jewelry did not exist in the previous games). If you can answer that question, that's great. I honestly have no idea.

I'm sure if we do additional testing on jewelry, we could figure out the logic behind that.

The rules that I have mentioned seem to be playing out for the weapons. As a result, I still want to see how the weapons play out in terms of heal.

PS: Thanks for proving that jewelry may/may not follow the rules that I listed. It's something I did not account for. It's appreciated!

Lvl 36 Expedition Rifle of Fatality
116.5 DPS 10 DEX 39 INT 2.67% Crit
- Lightning skill damage is 799-999

Lvl 41 Indigenous Staff of Brutality
128.8 DPS 42 INT 21 STR
- Lightning skill damage is 732-915

The lower level Lvl 36 Expedition Rifle of Fatality gives +36.5 Damage over Lvl 41 Indigenous Staff of Brutality thereby giving higher skill damage. Previously you stated:


This is not a bug, allow me to explain!
No, this is not a bug. A sword is a high DPS weapon with low attack damage, but in return, it will give you higher skill damage. The glaive is the same way in this aspect! If you check a glaive, the skill damage is ~60 higher than the maul.


So why in this instance does a higher level weapon with higher DPS give lower skill damage. Everything you have said contradicts everything found here:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?88373-DPS-vs-Damage-a-detailed-comparison

[Serancha]

It seems to work differently for different classes. Mage and rogue weapons appear to work in a similar fashion to each other.

Warrior, because of the negative damage / dps ratio in their mauls, work differently. The negative damage / dps ratio also affects charge time, whcih is interesting in itself.

[mitno]

There is one more possibility. There can be a hidden factor in each weapon that translates damage to skill damage.
If there is such factor it should not stay hidden and be displayed in the weapon's parameters.

[mitno]

Can I ask a few questions? Did STS ever mention that skill damage depends on only "damage"? If yes, then only the conplaining is valid. But as I think that it was just common folk's knowledge that spread that skill damage is dependant on only damage. As Zeus pointed out that it was stated way before that weapon level is considered in skill damage and is also evident.

So in short no one has the right to complain that weapon damage solely isnt translating to skill damage unless any dev specifically confirmed that weapon damage only decides skill damage. I dont mean to be disrespectful to anyone but imho you cant bash anyone for some common folklore which apparently was wrong.

However if some dev did ever confirm that weapon damage solely defines skill damages then we should definitely take it up to STS by pointing to the thread.

We are not claiming skill damage must or mustn't be a derivative of damage stats.
But i think that by looking at a weapon's parameters i should be able to decide which weapon is better. As for now this is not the case. Because by examining maul parameters the only conclusion i can make is that its better than other weapons cause its higher in ALL parameters. However, as you can easily see, it is not.
My point is that the attributes of any item should be known directly or indirectly from examining its parameters without the need of purchasing it and equipping it physically on your toon.

[Anarchial]

We are not claiming skill damage must or mustn't be a derivative of damage stats.
But i think that by looking at a weapon's parameters i should be able to decide which weapon is better. As for now this is not the case. Because by examining maul parameters the only conclusion i can make is that its better than other weapons cause its higher in ALL parameters. However, as you can easily see, it is not.
My point is that the attributes of any item should be known directly or indirectly from examining its parameters without the need of purchasing it and equipping it physically on your toon.

As you mentioned in this post that you want to know whether maul is BETTER or not? I dont think that only skill damage should be taken into consideration while deciding about a weapon's goodness. Maul has a killer proc and it is for that stun most people die in pvp.

One more thing maul isnt high in ALL parameters. It is 10 level down than the weapon you are comparing. Even then it dominates more than magma sword.

What I think you really want is to be able to identify your skill damage before buying the weapon, right? If that is the case I too want that. I would like to be able to guess my skill range(even approximate) before buying a weapon.

Edit: I read your last line after posting this. That I agree to bro. There should be a way to guess my skill damage before buying it and physically equipping.

[Madnex]

Falmear's disproving examples are correct. What I said seemed to be applying on the few bow-daggers comparisons I made but I was also testing other stuff at the same time; figured what got mixed up though.

So the equipment's level is not related to skill min-max damage range (at least for sorcerer). Then there's no explanation on the original issue reported?

[Serancha]

I think it's related to the negative damage : dps ratio on maul-type weapons. The mauls are the only weapons with that, and it is logical that it would affect skill damage somehow.

[alexdroog]

I noticed the same with entombed warfare.
Higher dmg than magma but skyward and cs do the same damage.
This is wrong somehow. What does dmg indicate at all now?

[mitno]

I noticed the same with entombed warfare.
Higher dmg than magma but skyward and cs do the same damage.
This is wrong somehow. What does dmg indicate at all now?

Actually magma has higher skill damage. Maybe the one lvl difference causes it

[Zeus]

Lvl 36 Expedition Rifle of Fatality
116.5 DPS 10 DEX 39 INT 2.67% Crit
- Lightning skill damage is 799-999

Lvl 41 Indigenous Staff of Brutality
128.8 DPS 42 INT 21 STR
- Lightning skill damage is 732-915

The lower level Lvl 36 Expedition Rifle of Fatality gives +36.5 Damage over Lvl 41 Indigenous Staff of Brutality thereby giving higher skill damage. Previously you stated:



So why in this instance does a higher level weapon with higher DPS give lower skill damage. Everything you have said contradicts everything found here:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?88373-DPS-vs-Damage-a-detailed-comparison

I'm not a mage, that's for you to answer. For my class and the warrior class, the rule seems to follow. You're right, Falmear. Cheers!

[Zeus]

Falmear's disproving examples are correct. What I said seemed to be applying on the few bow-daggers comparisons I made but I was also testing other stuff at the same time; figured what got mixed up though.

So the equipment's level is not related to skill min-max damage range (at least for sorcerer). Then there's no explanation on the original issue reported?

I honestly don't get it then. I guess it's just another something that we would have to account for when using the weapon? I always have anyways, but it's now more widely known.