I challenge *you*!

[MightyMicah]

Hello everybody! Hope you're doing well!

I'm gonna get straight to the point, here. At level 51 I've been playing a strength/dex avian for a long time. I believe it is the best spec to be, but many pure dex birds would disagree. So I've decided to issue a challenge to every single dex bird at 51.

I challenge you to a duel to 10! I will be on my str/dex avian, and you will be on your pure dex avian.

Rules:
1. You may wear any gear you want as long as you are pure dex. I, as well may wear any gear I want as long as it's either strength or dex.
2. No trash talking! Let's do this in a friendly way. We are all bros at 51 for the most part :)
3. It will be 1v1 to 10. (If you wish to FFA to 10, that's fine, but I suggest 1v1 due to warbird having an advantage in FFA.)
4. You must be a level 50-53 pure dex bird.

Rewards:
Here's how the prizes go: If I lose the game to 10, I owe you a quarter of a million gold. (That's 250,000g) If I win the game to 10, you owe me 50,000g plus you've got to post on the forums and admit that warbird is superior to dex bird when played right ;)

With college classes going on, I can only be so active. However, I should be free each night around 6-10pm eastern time to do some dueling. Hit me up in this thread or on the forums if you're brave enough to accept my challenge!

Why am I doing this? Partly to prove that warbird is superior, and partly just to get people off my back. There have been a lot of people dissing me for going warbird as well a lot of people claiming that any good dex bird could whoop me. I want to put an end to these rumors! But if they are true, I want to face them and go down like a man! So hit me up!

-MM

[synfullmagic_23110]

I already know str birds are better than full dex birds
I just don't enjoy the fact :/


\^.^

[MightyMicah]

I already know str birds are better than full dex birds
I just don't enjoy the fact :/


\^.^

Play what you love; love what you play!

[Ks_Leon]

-.-too bad idont pvp 51.

[Sus]

Hmmmmmm I accept your challenge! *starts levelling bird up again to 51*

[Rolocolo]

Isn't it obvious str birds are better because of the stacked dodge? What does this prove? Everyone already knows this

[MightyMicah]

Isn't it obvious str birds are better because of the stacked dodge? What does this prove? Everyone already knows this

It's not obvious, and dodge isn't the only factor that makes strength bird superior. The point is to prove three things
1. Warbird, when played right, is superior to dex bird.
2. Two people can have some fun dueling each other.
3. I know what I'm talking about when I recommend warbird to new 51 Avians.


Hmmmmmm I accept your challenge! *starts levelling bird up again to 51*

Swagger bruh ;)

[SillyJuan]

Too bad I just made a 51 bear 😥 was thinking of making bird

[Demonkinghero]

I have a war bird oveabeke I still wanna PvP you MIGHTY:D

~ Demonkinghero ^.^`

[Rescind]

I have a war bird oveabeke I still wanna PvP you MIGHTY:D

~ Demonkinghero ^.^`

he said he'll use HIS str/dex bird against YOUR pure dex bird

[Zapder]

he said he'll use HIS str/dex bird against YOUR pure dex bird

He knows that's why u he said he STILL wants to Pvp mighty( for the experience)

[MightyMicah]

Yeah, it's cool guys, Demon is a good friend of mine in game. We duel all the time and I think that's what he's referring to. :)

[SillyJuan]

I would make a 51 pure bird if one of you guys would tell me what ear to use. Anyone volunteer?

[Rolocolo]

Warbird, with no clue how to play is superior than dex bird

[Caiahar]

Warbird, with no clue how to play is superior than dex bird

Wrong, that's mostly higher lvls like endgame.
Str/dex 51 bird would be easier for beginners, full dex would be slightly harder.

[Laar]

I would make a 51 pure bird if one of you guys would tell me what ear to use. Anyone volunteer?
Full RR set, Drainer set, shotty set, cyber set.. yeah.

[MightyMicah]

Full RR set, Drainer set, shotty set, cyber set.. yeah.

Don't forget sewer set! :P

[Laar]

Full RR set, Drainer set, shotty set, cyber set.. yeah.

Don't forget sewer set! :P
Lol thanks :)
Well, if I were a pure I'd do RR helm and armor and SK bow. A bit of mana regen but still glass tanky as hell :D

[Rolocolo]

Wrong, that's mostly higher lvls like endgame.
Str/dex 51 bird would be easier for beginners, full dex would be slightly harder.

No. I used to play 51-56 bird and had a hybrid bird, its wayyyyyy easier to play and beat dex birds. And you just said yourself full dex is harder? Isn't that what I said? 51-71 all warbirds are OP. Endgame its actually a good chance for the dex bird to win

[Caiahar]

Wrong, that's mostly higher lvls like endgame.
Str/dex 51 bird would be easier for beginners, full dex would be slightly harder.

No. I used to play 51-56 bird and had a hybrid bird, its wayyyyyy easier to play and beat dex birds. And you just said yourself full dex is harder? Isn't that what I said? 51-71 all warbirds are OP. Endgame its actually a good chance for the dex bird to win
Buddy, remember what I told you in game, you should know me by now, I say the exact of what I mean unintentionally
Also, my only experience as 51 bird was when my main was 51. Full dex drainers. So I don't know much.
Move on :)

[TastyChickens]

Would a lv45 or l51 bird be better at pvp??

[Waug]

One miss point I notice all over here is dat hybrid bird is superior not dex bird.
Fact is hybrid bird is superior than dex birds only means they have advantage over dex birds but dex birds can perform better against other classes.

Lastly dex birds r best if used properly.

[MightyMicah]

Would a lv45 or l51 bird be better at pvp??

Probably 51 if you can afford it. Though, admittedly I haven't ever tried 45 for more than a week or two.


One miss point I notice all over here is dat hybrid bird is superior not dex bird.
Fact is hybrid bird is superior than dex birds only means they have advantage over dex birds but dex birds can perform better against other classes.

Lastly dex birds r best if used properly.

Not true, pure dex birds almost always lose against a decent fox or rhino. Pure dex birds struggle equally with hybrids against bears, and do just as well as hybrids against mages.

[TastyChickens]

is 500k enough for l51 gear? and if so, could you help me with builds and techniques too? ^_^
thanks
and maybe if u might know my 61! tastychickens a bear :DDD

[Sheugokin]

But STR birds are frowned upon. Esp. at endgame lol. Plus I think pure is so much more fun! :)

[Caiahar]

is 500k enough for l51 gear? and if so, could you help me with builds and techniques too? ^_^
thanks
and maybe if u might know my 61! tastychickens a bear :DDD
I think drainers might be good :p

[synfullmagic_23110]

Probably 51 if you can afford it. Though, admittedly I haven't ever tried 45 for more than a week or two.



Not true, pure dex birds almost always lose against a decent fox or rhino. Pure dex birds struggle equally with hybrids against bears, and do just as well as hybrids against mages.

Fox in 51 are ez

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk

[Laar]

Probably 51 if you can afford it. Though, admittedly I haven't ever tried 45 for more than a week or two.



Not true, pure dex birds almost always lose against a decent fox or rhino. Pure dex birds struggle equally with hybrids against bears, and do just as well as hybrids against mages.

Fox in 51 are ez

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk
DUDE! Challenge Mighty for us and prove him wrong :D

[synfullmagic_23110]

DUDE! Challenge Mighty for us and prove him wrong :D

.-. Am lost u talkin' to me or someone else .-.

Sent from my SM-T210R using Tapatalk

[Waug]

Not true, pure dex birds almost always lose against a decent fox or rhino. Pure dex birds struggle equally with hybrids against bears, and do just as well as hybrids against mages.

The overall class bird suffered from nerfs and underpowered. Anyway ur tempting me to make a l50-56 dex bird, name da top foxes and rhinos or anyother class and I'm gonna devastate em for u :p

[Laar]

Not true, pure dex birds almost always lose against a decent fox or rhino. Pure dex birds struggle equally with hybrids against bears, and do just as well as hybrids against mages.

The overall class bird suffered from nerfs and underpowered. Anyway ur tempting me to make a l50-56 dex bird, name da top foxes and rhinos or anyother class and I'm gonna devastate em for u :p
Occult is bes 51 fox probably.

[Elegants]

sigh why now mighty ? i hope i can get my phone by tis week to fight ya

[Trenton]

I still honestly think warbird has the upper hand no matter what. I've played warbird since 66 cap, with pretty much every twink level and every endgame level. The only time warbird has a disadvantage over a pure bird is 76 cap, where pure bird can kill bears and pallies and warbirds have a tough time doing so. Also, if you can use any gear you like, hows that prove anything? It shows that if a dex bird uses full RR, you can too, with more dodge and hp. Yea ofc dex bird will have better crit, but whats the point of crit when it gets dodged? Good luck with your tourney/showing off/whatever this is, but I'm 99% sure that no one will beat you to 10.

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[Laar]

I still honestly think warbird has the upper hand no matter what. I've played warbird since 66 cap, with pretty much every twink level and every endgame level. The only time warbird has a disadvantage over a pure bird is 76 cap, where pure bird can kill bears and pallies and warbirds have a tough time doing so. Also, if you can use any gear you like, hows that prove anything? It shows that if a dex bird uses full RR, you can too, with more dodge and hp. Yea ofc dex bird will have better crit, but whats the point of crit when it gets dodged? Good luck with your tourney/showing off/whatever this is, but I'm 99% sure that no one will beat you to 10.

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Also more hit percent, doesn't that lower the dodge rate?

[MightyMicah]

Also more hit percent, doesn't that lower the dodge rate?

No, but crit does. That's why custom birds are so good and arguably better than obedience birds.

[Laar]

Also more hit percent, doesn't that lower the dodge rate?

No, but crit does. That's why custom birds are so good and arguably better than obedience birds.
Woahh I never knew that crit lowered dodge..

[Hardcorexd]

No, but crit does. That's why custom birds are so good and arguably better than obedience birds.

I don't agree that custom wins obedience if obedience has more dps and dps=skill dmg and if the obedience bird kite well custom can't really hit his more precious dmg auto

[Laar]

No, but crit does. That's why custom birds are so good and arguably better than obedience birds.

I don't agree that custom wins obedience if obedience has more dps and dps=skill dmg and if the obedience bird kite well custom can't really hit his more precious dmg auto
One thing you got wrong is that dps doesn't equal skill dmg. Everything else is fine :P

[Caiahar]

Also more hit percent, doesn't that lower the dodge rate?

No, but crit does. That's why custom birds are so good and arguably better than obedience birds.
Woahh I never knew that crit lowered dodge..
I don't think it does *Checks Physiologics guide*
@hardcore: Custom has less dodge but I think but crit/dmg.
Obed has more range.

[Laar]

Also more hit percent, doesn't that lower the dodge rate?

No, but crit does. That's why custom birds are so good and arguably better than obedience birds.
Woahh I never knew that crit lowered dodge..
I don't think it does *Checks Physiologics guide*
@hardcore: Custom has less dodge but I think but crit/dmg.
Obed has more range.
Actually Custom has like 1 or 2 more dodge than Obed xbow set.

[Laar]

I saw Physiologics guide to the advanced mechanics of PL, it's great. Anyway, it says that crit is a percentage and increaces the # of critical hits dealt out of the hits dealt total, not the # of times you hit in total. And what I also didn't know is that according to his tests, hit% only goes so far and does NOT lower the dodge rate if you compare it to 2 hit percentages that's over 100%.

[Fear]

Hmm I might be down...

[MightyMicah]

I saw Physiologics guide to the advanced mechanics of PL, it's great. Anyway, it says that crit is a percentage and increaces the # of critical hits dealt out of the hits dealt total, not the # of times you hit in total. And what I also didn't know is that according to his tests, hit% only goes so far and does NOT lower the dodge rate if you compare it to 2 hit percentages that's over 100%.

To my knowledge solely based on experience, the higher the crit, the less chance the opposing class has of dodging. That's why custom birds are good, and that's why mages used to slaughter birds fairly easily.

[Caiahar]

I challenge you to a Pokemon battle!

Lol sorry Micah, I had to xD

[Waug]

To my knowledge solely based on experience, the higher the crit, the less chance the opposing class has of dodging. That's why custom birds are good, and that's why mages used to slaughter birds fairly easily.

Crit and dodge r different things DAT don't interact with each other.

[MightyMicah]

I challenge you to a Pokemon battle!

Lol sorry Micah, I had to xD

Haha that was the pun intended! :D


Crit and dodge r different things DAT don't interact with each other.

Yes they do.

[Waug]

^ lo, it does not, just prove it then,testing is quite easy just don't change other parameters while testing specially hit% keep it significantly above 100 always.

[Zeus]

To my knowledge solely based on experience, the higher the crit, the less chance the opposing class has of dodging. That's why custom birds are good, and that's why mages used to slaughter birds fairly easily.

Gaunab and I did a test on this, it has no effect.

Of course, we could be wrong, but I was also a believer to the statements that you are making.

[Hardcorexd]

One thing you got wrong is that dps doesn't equal skill dmg. Everything else is fine :P

Nope u can try it out and find out yourself this is why demonic birds have more dmg then sanguine even doe sanguine has more dmg in auto but the dps makes everything different unless your dmg is pretty pretty low

[Caiahar]

One thing you got wrong is that dps doesn't equal skill dmg. Everything else is fine :P

Nope u can try it out and find out yourself this is why demonic birds have more dmg then sanguine even doe sanguine has more dmg in auto but the dps makes everything different unless your dmg is pretty pretty low
Read Physiologics guide to PLs advanced Mechanics.
DPS and Dmg are 2 totally different things. DPS is your weapon, DMG is your Skill Dmg.
Reason why Demonic birds are good is because their range. They can keep using auto (The DPS, because its their Xbow) in compare to Sanguine birds, who have high dmg, but cannot kite as well because sanguine bow is not 12m. And the skills (Blast Shot) will take the Skill Dmg into account. The DMG on the item will affect your skills.
Thats why whenever you equip a better bow than the one you have (Such as you have a 45 cheap bow but then you get a custom recurve, your blast shot and other skills are of course more powerful.
If your weapon has a better speed (Some have 1.0 speed, some have 0.7 speed) Then your DPS (Damage per second if you hadnt know) will go up.

Ex: A bear has a normal 1H sword. His sword is 0.7 speed (example) and has decent dmg. Therefore, his DPS is higher whenever he hits opponents with swords, and his skill Stomps dmg is okay/decent.
However, if he equips a 2H sword, 1.2 speed but much higher dmg, His auto attack will be much slower, but slightly more dmg. His Stomps dmg is very high though.
Thats why at certain levels bears prefer to use a talon rather than a bow/xbow, as a talon can do more DPS over time with auto whereas a bow would have more skill dmg, but less DPS.
Wow. That was so long lol.

[Laar]

One thing you got wrong is that dps doesn't equal skill dmg. Everything else is fine :P

Nope u can try it out and find out yourself this is why demonic birds have more dmg then sanguine even doe sanguine has more dmg in auto but the dps makes everything different unless your dmg is pretty pretty low
Read Physiologics guide to PLs advanced Mechanics.
DPS and Dmg are 2 totally different things. DPS is your weapon, DMG is your Skill Dmg.
Reason why Demonic birds are good is because their range. They can keep using auto (The DPS, because its their Xbow) in compare to Sanguine birds, who have high dmg, but cannot kite as well because sanguine bow is not 12m. And the skills (Blast Shot) will take the Skill Dmg into account. The DMG on the item will affect your skills.
Thats why whenever you equip a better bow than the one you have (Such as you have a 45 cheap bow but then you get a custom recurve, your blast shot and other skills are of course more powerful.
If your weapon has a better speed (Some have 1.0 speed, some have 0.7 speed) Then your DPS (Damage per second if you hadnt know) will go up.

Ex: A bear has a normal 1H sword. His sword is 0.7 speed (example) and has decent dmg. Therefore, his DPS is higher whenever he hits opponents with swords, and his skill Stomps dmg is okay/decent.
However, if he equips a 2H sword, 1.2 speed but much higher dmg, His auto attack will be much slower, but slightly more dmg. His Stomps dmg is very high though.
Thats why at certain levels bears prefer to use a talon rather than a bow/xbow, as a talon can do more DPS over time with auto whereas a bow would have more skill dmg, but less DPS.
Wow. That was so long lol.
Very well explained. I'm glad I didn't have to type all that for him.

[Trenton]

Read Physiologics guide to PLs advanced Mechanics.
DPS and Dmg are 2 totally different things. DPS is your weapon, DMG is your Skill Dmg.
Reason why Demonic birds are good is because their range. They can keep using auto (The DPS, because its their Xbow) in compare to Sanguine birds, who have high dmg, but cannot kite as well because sanguine bow is not 12m. And the skills (Blast Shot) will take the Skill Dmg into account. The DMG on the item will affect your skills.
Thats why whenever you equip a better bow than the one you have (Such as you have a 45 cheap bow but then you get a custom recurve, your blast shot and other skills are of course more powerful.
If your weapon has a better speed (Some have 1.0 speed, some have 0.7 speed) Then your DPS (Damage per second if you hadnt know) will go up.

Ex: A bear has a normal 1H sword. His sword is 0.7 speed (example) and has decent dmg. Therefore, his DPS is higher whenever he hits opponents with swords, and his skill Stomps dmg is okay/decent.
However, if he equips a 2H sword, 1.2 speed but much higher dmg, His auto attack will be much slower, but slightly more dmg. His Stomps dmg is very high though.
Thats why at certain levels bears prefer to use a talon rather than a bow/xbow, as a talon can do more DPS over time with auto whereas a bow would have more skill dmg, but less DPS.
Wow. That was so long lol.

Yet why does demonic have more skill damage when sang has more bow damage? I know it isn't related to dps but still..

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[Laar]

I thought bow damage and skill damage are the same thing? Doesn't bow damage affect skill damage?

[Trenton]

I thought bow damage and skill damage are the same thing? Doesn't bow damage affect skill damage?

Not according to demo and sang. Demo has more skill damage by far

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[Laar]

I thought bow damage and skill damage are the same thing? Doesn't bow damage affect skill damage?

Not according to demo and sang. Demo has more skill damage by far

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Hmm thats confusing. Maybe the sangs auto bow damage is high but skill dmg is low? Idk

[Caiahar]

Read Physiologics guide to PLs advanced Mechanics.
DPS and Dmg are 2 totally different things. DPS is your weapon, DMG is your Skill Dmg.
Reason why Demonic birds are good is because their range. They can keep using auto (The DPS, because its their Xbow) in compare to Sanguine birds, who have high dmg, but cannot kite as well because sanguine bow is not 12m. And the skills (Blast Shot) will take the Skill Dmg into account. The DMG on the item will affect your skills.
Thats why whenever you equip a better bow than the one you have (Such as you have a 45 cheap bow but then you get a custom recurve, your blast shot and other skills are of course more powerful.
If your weapon has a better speed (Some have 1.0 speed, some have 0.7 speed) Then your DPS (Damage per second if you hadnt know) will go up.

Ex: A bear has a normal 1H sword. His sword is 0.7 speed (example) and has decent dmg. Therefore, his DPS is higher whenever he hits opponents with swords, and his skill Stomps dmg is okay/decent.
However, if he equips a 2H sword, 1.2 speed but much higher dmg, His auto attack will be much slower, but slightly more dmg. His Stomps dmg is very high though.
Thats why at certain levels bears prefer to use a talon rather than a bow/xbow, as a talon can do more DPS over time with auto whereas a bow would have more skill dmg, but less DPS.
Wow. That was so long lol.

Yet why does demonic have more skill damage when sang has more bow damage? I know it isn't related to dps but still..

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Pls Trent don't ask me, I don't pvp at 61, you tell me.

[IGN Storm]

Is it okay if I use 51 gear on my 56? I could even respec so that my stats are identical to that of a lvl 51 bird

[MightyMicah]

Gaunab and I did a test on this, it has no effect.

Of course, we could be wrong, but I was also a believer to the statements that you are making.

It's my personal belief that there are a lot of hidden mechanics in this game. I'd be interested to see what kind of tests y'all did. I respect you both tons, but I just can't blindly accept that a mechanic I've treated as law for the past three years isn't. There's just too much that goes unexplained in my opinion.

[MightyMicah]

Read Physiologics guide to PLs advanced Mechanics.
DPS and Dmg are 2 totally different things. DPS is your weapon, DMG is your Skill Dmg.
Reason why Demonic birds are good is because their range. They can keep using auto (The DPS, because its their Xbow) in compare to Sanguine birds, who have high dmg, but cannot kite as well because sanguine bow is not 12m. And the skills (Blast Shot) will take the Skill Dmg into account. The DMG on the item will affect your skills.
Thats why whenever you equip a better bow than the one you have (Such as you have a 45 cheap bow but then you get a custom recurve, your blast shot and other skills are of course more powerful.
If your weapon has a better speed (Some have 1.0 speed, some have 0.7 speed) Then your DPS (Damage per second if you hadnt know) will go up.

Ex: A bear has a normal 1H sword. His sword is 0.7 speed (example) and has decent dmg. Therefore, his DPS is higher whenever he hits opponents with swords, and his skill Stomps dmg is okay/decent.
However, if he equips a 2H sword, 1.2 speed but much higher dmg, His auto attack will be much slower, but slightly more dmg. His Stomps dmg is very high though.
Thats why at certain levels bears prefer to use a talon rather than a bow/xbow, as a talon can do more DPS over time with auto whereas a bow would have more skill dmg, but less DPS.
Wow. That was so long lol.

Well put! I would have to say that is a rule. However, like most rules there are exceptions. And there's one small thing you didn't factor in.

That thing is critical. If you have a higher base damage (not dps) then you are capable of hitting even higher Crits. Due to the way this game's armor mechanic works, (to my knowledge) that actually is a huge deal. On the surface it seems as if this wouldn't matter but I believe this game calculates the actual damage of the skill before it subtracts the the damage mitigated by the armor.

Example:
You have 100 base damage, and your opponent has 50 armor.
When you shoot, you'll deal 50 damage, unless you crit, in which case you'll do 150 damage. (200-50 mitigated by armor)
Now suppose you have a weapon twice as fast with half the damage.
You have 50 base damage and your opponent still has 50 armor.
When you shoot, you'll deal 0 damage, except when you crit, in which case you'll deal 50.
However, because your weapon is twice as fast you can pull off two attacks which means you'll deal 100 damage assuming they both crit. That's still less than before. In this case, it would be better to choose the one with higher base damage.

Now, I'm aware that armor (and crit I think) doesn't work quite how I displayed in the example, but the concept behind it still remains. Also there are some weird weapons that for whatever reason have higher skill damage than others that have greater dps/base damage. An example would be the L30 banjo hammer deal compared to the L30 iceberg frozen long sword.

Anyways...

[Zeus]

It's my personal belief that there are a lot of hidden mechanics in this game. I'd be interested to see what kind of tests y'all did. I respect you both tons, but I just can't blindly accept that a mechanic I've treated as law for the past three years isn't. There's just too much that goes unexplained in my opinion.

Mages have over 100% critical, so we tested on a bear (me) the ability of a mage (gaunub) to hit through a bear's dodge. The results were roughly the same unbuffed or buffed on 100 attacks with a 2-3% difference at most.

[MightyMicah]

Mages have over 100% critical, so we tested on a bear (me) the ability of a mage (gaunub) to hit through a bear's dodge. The results were roughly the same unbuffed or buffed on 100 attacks with a 2-3% difference at most.

Ok, but explain to me why my repulse shot gets dodged when my crit is low and hits much more reliably when my crit is high. There's a lot to take into consideration. For example, there could be some kind of cap on crit, or even on dodge. Or perhaps there are certain codes written into armor sets themselves. Like I said, it's my firm belief that there are many hidden mechanics in the game and I don't think one simple test can disprove a theory with such a substantial amount of evidence.

[Laar]

Mages have over 100% critical, so we tested on a bear (me) the ability of a mage (gaunub) to hit through a bear's dodge. The results were roughly the same unbuffed or buffed on 100 attacks with a 2-3% difference at most.

Ok, but explain to me why my repulse shot gets dodged when my crit is low and hits much more reliably when my crit is high. There's a lot to take into consideration. For example, there could be some kind of cap on crit, or even on dodge. Or perhaps there are certain codes written into armor sets themselves. Like I said, it's my firm belief that there are many hidden mechanics in the game and I don't think one simple test can disprove a theory with such a substantial amount of evidence.
It's been considered that there is a hit% cap, and no one has proven otherwise. If you look at Psychologic's tests and data, you can find that there is a "hit cap" around 85%. The crit you see in your stat bar is the % of crits you hit/hit% (/ = ratio bar).
For example, let's say you have a hit% of 100, and you test how many times you hit on an opponent that has 0 dodge. Considering the hit cap, you'll only hit 85 times. Then, you take your crit% and multiply the percent by 85, and you get the # of times you crit.

[MightyMicah]

It's been considered that there is a hit% cap, and no one has proven otherwise. If you look at Psychologic's tests and data, you can find that there is a "hit cap" around 85%. The crit you see in your stat bar is the % of crits you hit/hit% (/ = ratio bar).
For example, let's say you have a hit% of 100, and you test how many times you hit on an opponent that has 0 dodge. Considering the hit cap, you'll only hit 85 times. Then, you take your crit% and multiply the percent by 85, and you get the # of times you crit.

Hmmm this one sounds even more fishy to me. Where can I find this guide? I'd love to do some testing of my own.

[Caiahar]

Hmmm this one sounds even more fishy to me. Where can I find this guide? I'd love to do some testing of my own.
Physiologics guide to the Advance Mechanics of PL. Even though made at 56 cap, its very useful.
Go to bird discussion, go to his guide on birds, which is stickied, then look in his signature for it.

I don't all of PL mechanics, I know a lot, but some im not very familiar with, such as crit. Ive never actually cared for crit much, nor do I know about it. As far as we know, there is not a cap on crit or dodge.
Only testing I have done on crit is at endgame. Fiery mages have a lot of crit buffed, birds have decent dodge buffed, bears and pallies have a lot of dodge, yet the int mage is unable to hit successfully on them.
@Laar: If I remember correctly, hit cap is more at 100.

[FortalWao]

A weird thing that happens to me a lot at endgame is that my pure dex bird (with like 170% hit) actually misses sometimes, but not miss as if I was out of range, it actually says "miss" and sometimes happens twice in a row. There's just no single debuff that'd get my hit below 100% so I'm pretty confused right now.

[Sus]

Man man man what a derail lol.

[Caiahar]

Man man man what a derail lol.

Sus come to 51 please. Im going back there too :D

[MightyMicah]

Man man man what a derail lol.

I know right! It's ok, I love discussions about mechanics. Mostly because I'm a nerd haha


Sus come to 51 please. Im going back there too :D

For real? Dude I'm so glad! Add me!

[Caiahar]

I know right! It's ok, I love discussions about mechanics. Mostly because I'm a nerd haha



For real? Dude I'm so glad! Add me!
I am, but im trying to decide between a mage or bird.
Maybe mage, because I don't have one over 50, and I have a 35 mage that I can level.
Im taking birds into consideration, my only bird above 50 is 75, and it would be helpful to play at a balanced level to learn a bit more about them. Already got a 22 bird.

[Laar]

A weird thing that happens to me a lot at endgame is that my pure dex bird (with like 170% hit) actually misses sometimes, but not miss as if I was out of range, it actually says "miss" and sometimes happens twice in a row. There's just no single debuff that'd get my hit below 100% so I'm pretty confused right now.
Look at Psychologics guide about the advanced mechanics of PL. He's concluded that there is a hit cap at around 85%.

[Zeus]

Ok, but explain to me why my repulse shot gets dodged when my crit is low and hits much more reliably when my crit is high. There's a lot to take into consideration. For example, there could be some kind of cap on crit, or even on dodge. Or perhaps there are certain codes written into armor sets themselves. Like I said, it's my firm belief that there are many hidden mechanics in the game and I don't think one simple test can disprove a theory with such a substantial amount of evidence.

Luck...or self comforting.

If you want to set a new standard, you'll need to bring back proofs with accurate results.

[IGN Storm]

Ok, but explain to me why my repulse shot gets dodged when my crit is low and hits much more reliably when my crit is high. There's a lot to take into consideration. For example, there could be some kind of cap on crit, or even on dodge. Or perhaps there are certain codes written into armor sets themselves. Like I said, it's my firm belief that there are many hidden mechanics in the game and I don't think one simple test can disprove a theory with such a substantial amount of evidence.

Are you sure its that your opponent dodging the repulse instead of you missing repulse? Because now focus at 6 gives (I believe) 22 hit% which is not enough to bring a 51 RS/FF warbird to 130% hit. This means if you opponent lands a 30% hit debuff, you are capable of missing some of your skills. It might appear that you hit more because of the crit from Focus, but I think it is the hit% buff that does the work.

If that is not the case, then I believe the evidence we have so far is inconclusive. You cannot argue for something from pure speculation or the belief that there are "hidden mechanics". In the same way, I could argue that wearing only a weapon is better than wearing a full set because I managed to get a kill or two more w/o armor than w/ armor due to something called luck.

I'm not mocking you or outright saying that your are wrong but from a scientific perspective, you don't have enough data to validate your statement.

[synfullmagic_23110]

Because now focus at 6 gives (I believe) 22 hit%

87309
Yes sir

♥

[Burningdex]

doesnt 6repulse knock back slightly even if it is dodge or is tht just me ?

[Laar]

doesnt 6repulse knock back slightly even if it is dodge or is tht just me ?
It's just u

[Caiahar]

MightyMicah! Use focus and evasion, followed up with break armor! Dodge the blind, use root, THAN FINISH HIM OFF WITH A CRUEL BLAST!!!
:D

[MightyMicah]

Are you sure its that your opponent dodging the repulse instead of you missing repulse? Because now focus at 6 gives (I believe) 22 hit% which is not enough to bring a 51 RS/FF warbird to 130% hit. This means if you opponent lands a 30% hit debuff, you are capable of missing some of your skills. It might appear that you hit more because of the crit from Focus, but I think it is the hit% buff that does the work.

If that is not the case, then I believe the evidence we have so far is inconclusive. You cannot argue for something from pure speculation or the belief that there are "hidden mechanics". In the same way, I could argue that wearing only a weapon is better than wearing a full set because I managed to get a kill or two more w/o armor than w/ armor due to something called luck.

I'm not mocking you or outright saying that your are wrong but from a scientific perspective, you don't have enough data to validate your statement.

From a scientific perspective I have more proof than physiologic ever had because I've played longer than he did and amassed more and more evidence for this theory over time. My argument isn't that there are "hidden mechanics." Which, by the way, people scoffed and laughed when I claimed that the range mechanics had changed and that while advancing forward your range is increased and while retreating back your range is decreased. Now people have accepted this as true. I believe my experience with crit is no different. However, I will try and produce some more substantial evidence since experience isn't enough for anyone but me.


Luck...or self comforting.

If you want to set a new standard, you'll need to bring back proofs with accurate results.

I'm not sure if you're trying to make me look silly, or to insult me, or neither one. Regardless, I'll try and keep tabs on some battles. I'll maybe get a friend to do some testing with also. This isn't luck or self comforting. This is something that has helped me beat player after player by analyzing the equipment they're wearing. This is something that I've treated as law and it has payed off every time. As far as I'm concerned, I have proofs with accurate results. But, as I said, I'll try and keep tabs on them a little more.


doesnt 6repulse knock back slightly even if it is dodge or is tht just me ?

As far as I'm aware, it does not.

[synfullmagic_23110]

MightyMicah! Use focus and evasion, followed up with break armor! Dodge the blind, use root, THAN FINISH HIM OFF WITH A CRUEL BLAST!!!
:D

That's what I do :$

♥

[Waug]

@fortal here's the math 170-60% of 170 = 68 hence miss, its not weird

@micah For the same reason as ign Strom also mentioned getting hit debuff may lead ur opponent to dodge more hence u may noticed it (having more crit in general not everytime also specify having more dex/hit)

And I think u did not claim about DAT range mechanism I said that several time.

[Zeus]

I'm not sure if you're trying to make me look silly, or to insult me, or neither one. Regardless, I'll try and keep tabs on some battles. I'll maybe get a friend to do some testing with also. This isn't luck or self comforting. This is something that has helped me beat player after player by analyzing the equipment they're wearing. This is something that I've treated as law and it has payed off every time. As far as I'm concerned, I have proofs with accurate results. But, as I said, I'll try and keep tabs on them a little more.


Neither, neither, and neither. I just want proof on claims, because the one thing that I find annoying is people making claims without proof to back them up. This then becomes into the PL "facts" that I like to call folklore.

I thought the same thing as you, but when I did the tests, Gaunab proved me wrong. So, I'd really like to see why there is a difference in your case.

[MightyMicah]

Neither, neither, and neither. I just want proof on claims, because the one thing that I find annoying is people making claims without proof to back them up. This then becomes into the PL "facts" that I like to call folklore.

I thought the same thing as you, but when I did the tests, Gaunab proved me wrong. So, I'd really like to see why there is a difference in your case.

Gotcha. I agree, there are some wacky claims out there and I've thought wrongly in the past before only to get corrected later. One question, when you did your testing, did one of you stand still, and the other attacked him? If so, I have a small theory about that which would give me a good lead to start testing.

[Zeus]

Gotcha. I agree, there are some wacky claims out there and I've thought wrongly in the past before only to get corrected later. One question, when you did your testing, did one of you stand still, and the other attacked him? If so, I have a small theory about that which would give me a good lead to start testing.

As for the question on our procedure, yes, that was the procedure that we used. If I recall though, I did not test with skills. So, if you also want to create a test with skills, that might explain why you feel that higher crit = higher chance to penetrate dodge.

[KingFu]

Read Physiologics guide to PLs advanced Mechanics.
DPS and Dmg are 2 totally different things. DPS is your weapon, DMG is your Skill Dmg.
Reason why Demonic birds are good is because their range. They can keep using auto (The DPS, because its their Xbow) in compare to Sanguine birds, who have high dmg, but cannot kite as well because sanguine bow is not 12m. And the skills (Blast Shot) will take the Skill Dmg into account. The DMG on the item will affect your skills.
Thats why whenever you equip a better bow than the one you have (Such as you have a 45 cheap bow but then you get a custom recurve, your blast shot and other skills are of course more powerful.
If your weapon has a better speed (Some have 1.0 speed, some have 0.7 speed) Then your DPS (Damage per second if you hadnt know) will go up.


1) Dmg =/= skill dmg.
2) Xbow is 13m.
3) Skill dmg demo > sang.
4) Skill damage is relative to specific items.
5) DPS is dependent on more than just weapon speed.


I thought bow damage and skill damage are the same thing? Doesn't bow damage affect skill damage?

Yes, an item's damage is used to determine skill damage, however different items influence skill damage more than others, keeper's staff for example. Not all items dish out the same percentage of their base damage to skill damage, which is why 2h bears sux so bad.


Now, let's let Micah and Zeus continue der bickerin.

[MightyMicah]

As for the question on our procedure, yes, that was the procedure that we used. If I recall though, I did not test with skills. So, if you also want to create a test with skills, that might explain why you feel that higher crit = higher chance to penetrate dodge.

Alright, thanks. I guess I'll find out. Admittedly I've got no axe to grind or anything. If I'm wrong, so be it. I'll just be really shocked and confused if I am. As I stated though, I have a few ideas why you guys got the results you did.

[MightyMicah]

Now, let's let Micah and Zeus continue der bickerin.

Oh, please. Micah and Zeus are way too mature for that. ;)

[Caiahar]

1) Dmg =/= skill dmg.
2) Xbow is 13m.
3) Skill dmg demo > sang.
4) Skill damage is relative to specific items.
5) DPS is dependent on more than just weapon speed.



Yes, an item's damage is used to determine skill damage, however different items influence skill damage more than others, keeper's staff for example. Not all items dish out the same percentage of their base damage to skill damage, which is why 2h bears sux so bad.


Now, let's let Micah and Zeus continue der bickerin.


I
1) Dmg =/= skill dmg.
2) Xbow is 13m.
3) Skill dmg demo > sang.
4) Skill damage is relative to specific items.
5) DPS is dependent on more than just weapon speed.



Yes, an item's damage is used to determine skill damage, however different items influence skill damage more than others, keeper's staff for example. Not all items dish out the same percentage of their base damage to skill damage, which is why 2h bears sux so bad.


Now, let's let Micah and Zeus continue der bickerin.


I do know weapon speed is not only only thing that sets the DPS

couldnt type down everything since I had to go x.X
All for one, and one for all.

[Laar]

Go where

[Hawkbby]

Micah, I think I probably could however my bird isnt that level, gimme time!

[KingFu]

Oh, please. Micah and Zeus are way too mature for that. ;)

Micah might be.

[MightyMicah]

Micah, I think I probably could however my bird isnt that level, gimme time!

Sounds good bro! Take your time!


Micah might be.

Why you gotta throw Zeus under the buss, man :(