Fireball or Ice? For elite maps..

[Kreasadriii]

Please, share your experience and knowledge also give ur own opinion..
Need your advise guys..
Active Skills that may be I take for my end lvl mage:
- Shield
- Clock
- Lightning
- _______ << should I take fireball or ice?
- I don't see curse in elite maps anymore since many mage use it for PvP

And in harder elite maps such as shuyal, nordr, and tindirin,
Does fireball (charged skill) can stunt elite mobs and elite bosses? Can Ice (charged skill) freeze elite mobs and elite bosses?
If can't, why? So curse more better than fireball and ice for harder elite maps?

Sorry many question, every comment very helpful to me ^^
Thanks!!

[Spanspan]

Ice Frozbold xD

[Raymond05]

If you really need to pick between fire and ice, then pick fire for more crowd control. If not, it is better to have a 5 skill build (fire, ice, clock, shield for mobs & fire, ice, light and shield for boss. Curse is not helpful in elite maps because of the long cooldown and it is not doing much damage. It is better to have 3-4 attack skills in pve. Fireball can stun elite mobs but not all (like in the elite tindirin maps, it can't stun the shaman, healer, snakes, etc). It doesn't stun elite bosses too. Ice can freeze elite mobs as well but not all (ex. shaman, etc). It also doesn't freeze elite bosses.

[Kreasadriii]

So if I prefer take this skills build:
- Fireball (without reduce hit enemies)
- Ice (don't remember about ice upgraded)
- Clock (without explode bomb)
- Shield (without displacement wave)
- Lightning (without stunt)

Correct me if I made a mistake skills choosen, hehehe
how about the sub-skills upgrade?

[Raymond05]

Hmm. I only put 3 points in ice but can't remember what is the other upgrade that i didn't put. About light, i only use 3, without the lightning discharge. If you do a lot of km3, then use that upgrade. If you do a lot of elite tindirin maps, i suggest don't use that upgrade.

[Madnex]

Please, share your experience and knowledge also give ur own opinion..
Need your advise guys..
Active Skills that may be I take for my end lvl mage:
- Shield
- Clock
- Lightning
- _______ << should I take fireball or ice?
- I don't see curse in elite maps anymore since many mage use it for PvP

And in harder elite maps such as shuyal, nordr, and tindirin,
Does fireball (charged skill) can stunt elite mobs and elite bosses? Can Ice (charged skill) freeze elite mobs and elite bosses?
If can't, why? So curse more better than fireball and ice for harder elite maps?

Sorry many question, every comment very helpful to me ^^
Thanks!!
Strictly PvE, you'll have a better time running five skills.

Counting the skill unlock as 1:


Fireball [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Frost Bolt [1, 3, 4]
Time Shift [1, 2, 4, 5]
Arcane Shield [1, 2, 4, 5]
Lighting Strike [1, 2, 4]


Fireball doesn't stun some of the harder mobs (brown komodos, green serpents and green trolls) on the latest campaign's elite maps and neither does frost bolt but they still deal amazing damage over time and help slowing them down by snaring to give you time until your drop the next time shift. Specifically, frost bolt is great for neutralizing the healing shamans which are a big trouble in elites (their red zones can one shot any non-warriors and their group healing recovers 20% HP of all surrounding mobs).


And yes, you don't want curse or heal anywhere near your build if you only do PvE. In passives:


5/5 Might





5/5 Intelligence





5/5 Damage (do not take this one if you are mostly using a pet with exta damage % in the happiness bonus eg. Slag, Shadowlurk, Flap Jack). If that's the case, use both of the below.





5/5 Agility (optional for extra HP --25 DEX only adds only 0.63% crit-- and can be swapped with:





5/5 Critical Rate (your crit as legendary sorcerer should be ~20%).




As for pets, the list below goes from lower to higher priced pets. Price doesn't always reflect the quality though, for example Ribbit is an excellent choice for any sorcerer:


Ethyl
Ribbit
Orion
Malison
Crawly
Clyde
Haze
Slag

[Candylicks]

5/5 Intelligence
5/5 Damage
5/5 Agility (optional for extra HP --25 DEX only adds only 0.63% crit-- and can be swapped with:
-5/5 Critical Rate (your crit as legendary sorcerer should be ~20%).
[/LIST]

No to this. You should not put any points in damage because damage does not stack and is factored by the single highest highest modifier that you have. Adding 5/5 DMG only gives you an extra 5% dmg and all pets or lix have a higher amount than 5% so the dmg passive points are useless.

Click here to view the thread on this topic. (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?147850-Are-we-hitting-a-cap-on-percent-based-buffs&p=1580851&viewfull=1#post1580851)

[Madnex]

No to this. You should not put any points in damage because damage does not stack and is factored by the single highest highest modifier that you have. Adding 5/5 DMG only gives you an extra 5% dmg and all pets or lix have a higher amount than 5% so the dmg passive points are useless.

Click here to view the thread on this topic. (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?147850-Are-we-hitting-a-cap-on-percent-based-buffs&p=1580851&viewfull=1#post1580851)
I was there and I know, the suggested build has slight alterations to be the best legendary sorcerer's build. Thanks for note though, I'll add it on the original post. :)

[Candylicks]

I was there and I know, the suggested build has slight alterations to be the best legendary sorcerer's build. Thanks for note though, I'll add it on the original post. :)

You can be naked and it's still a total waste of points to put anything in DMG passive.

[Madnex]

You can be naked and it's still a total waste of points to put anything in DMG passive.
I'm afraid that's incorrect. Using a pet like Ribbit, Clyde, Crawly or Orion (all excellent PvE sorcerer pets) while having 5/5 on damage passive gives an impressive boost of approximately 20-25 more damage, considering the average legendary sorcerer's damage at the moment.

Again, this is strictly PvE and for the legendary rarity tier. Damage passive is not always useless; don't demonize it just because of the general uproar after that discovery on damage buffs not stacking.

[Candylicks]

I'm afraid that's incorrect. Using a pet like Ribbit, Clyde, Crawly or Orion (all excellent PvE sorcerer pets) while having 5/5 on damage passive gives an impressive boost of approximately 20-25 more damage, considering the average legendary sorcerer's damage at the moment.

Again, this is strictly PvE and for the legendary rarity tier. Damage passive is not always useless; don't demonize it just because of the general uproar after that discovery on damage buffs not stacking.

Originally Posted by null_void View Post
You are both correct. The way that the current multiplier system works depends on the statistic being multiplied. In the case of damage specifically, we apply the following rules:

- Is there one or more debuff? If so, use the lowest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 0.5 damage multiplier debuff and a 0.25 damage multiplier debuff, this would result in a multiplier of 0.25).
- Otherwise, is there one or more buff? If so, use the highest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 1.05 damage multiplier buff and a 1.25 damage multiplier buff, this would result in a multiplier of 1.25).

Because of this, yes. If you have a passive skill with a 1.05 multiplier (5/5 skill), and you also have a pet out that gives you a 1.15 multiplier, your total damage multiplier will be 1.15.

There are a few things that override this - bonus damage, double damage weekends and such interact with the statistic system differently from the normal multipliers, so they don't use this logic.

[keikali]

I'm afraid that's incorrect. Using a pet like Ribbit, Clyde, Crawly or Orion (all excellent PvE sorcerer pets) while having 5/5 on damage passive gives an impressive boost of approximately 20-25 more damage, considering the average legendary sorcerer's damage at the moment.

Again, this is strictly PvE and for the legendary rarity tier. Damage passive is not always useless; don't demonize it just because of the general uproar after that discovery on damage buffs not stacking.


Originally Posted by null_void View Post
You are both correct. The way that the current multiplier system works depends on the statistic being multiplied. In the case of damage specifically, we apply the following rules:

- Is there one or more debuff? If so, use the lowest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 0.5 damage multiplier debuff and a 0.25 damage multiplier debuff, this would result in a multiplier of 0.25).
- Otherwise, is there one or more buff? If so, use the highest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 1.05 damage multiplier buff and a 1.25 damage multiplier buff, this would result in a multiplier of 1.25).

Because of this, yes. If you have a passive skill with a 1.05 multiplier (5/5 skill), and you also have a pet out that gives you a 1.15 multiplier, your total damage multiplier will be 1.15.

There are a few things that override this - bonus damage, double damage weekends and such interact with the statistic system differently from the normal multipliers, so they don't use this logic.


Both are right. But how often are you going to use a pet that isn't a Dmg % boosting pet? And the fact that most of the new pets that are released have some attribute with a Dmg % modifier. From a PvE perspective, it is useless.

[Madnex]

There are two possibilities I see for your response:

1)You have no clue that the pets I listed offer no damage bonus; it's cool, you're probably using just one mythic pet without rotating so ignoring the lesser rarity pets' stats is to be expected.

2)You haven't grasped exactly how damage buffs function since you're making a referrence that doesn't really disprove any of my points.

In any case, I advise you to go back and look at the statistics because you're probably confusing people here over nothing.

[Candylicks]

There are two possibilities I see for your response:

1)You have no clue that the pets I listed offer no damage bonus; it's cool, you're probably using just one mythic pet without rotating so ignoring the lesser rarity pets' stats is to be expected.

2)You haven't grasped exactly how damage buffs function since you're making a referrence that doesn't really disprove any of my points.

In any case, I advise you to go back and look at the statistics because you're probably confusing people here over nothing.

Don't be goob.

Let me look at the pets because you *may* have a point with 1. I just never really used a non-dmg pet in rotation (except Ribbit @ boss).

[Madnex]

Both are right. But how often are you going to use a pet that isn't a Dmg % boosting pet? And the fact that most of the new pets that are released have some attribute with a Dmg % modifier. From a PvE perspective, it is useless.
Thy also wrong, smurf nab. The OP is mainly twinking as L27 warrior so he's new to end game sorcerer, therefore it's more probable that he's using one of the pets I mentioned.

And while it's true that a large portion of pets offer a damage bonus, it doesn't justify crossing out passive damage as useless in PvE.

[Candylicks]

Ribbit- No dmg %
Orion- 16% dmg
Clyde- No dmg %
Haze- 10% Dmg
Slag- 12% Dmg
______

Okay so if you were to use Clyde or Ribbit as pets in rotation, while they were equipped your dmg would reduce. I stand corrected to Mad.
_______

However, to the OP. I would still not use any dmg points. You can use : Orion (16%Dmg), Abaddon (15% Dmg), Grimm (12% Dmg), Ethyl (10% Dmg), Kettle (10% Dmg), Shadowlurk (10% Dmg), Haze (10% Dmg)... Most pets a mage normally use have a Dmg that overrides the 5% your passive damage gives.

Hope this helps and being a mage is fun, we all have our own *best way to mage*. Being blue certainly isn't easy.

[Hectororius]

I think for the most part, the damage passive usually gets overridden more often than not by the various buffs in the game that are almost always available. between elixirs, pets, various skill buffs and pet AA's that everyone uses (including Orions 10% damage buff), it makes better use of the passive points if they were applied elsewhere like critical, that helps buff most of the skills that the OP will be using anyways. Its a lot easier to buff damage in the game than to buff your critical.

So, while both passives are beneficial, it might be the better option to select critical passive over damage passive in the long run.

[Madnex]

88939
If Orion offered 16% damage, that'd be one hell of an overpowered legendary pet lol. Its arcane ability boosts damage by 10%.. for three seconds. Maximum damage buff from pet is Abaddon's 15%, as far as I know.


Critical is an overrated passive. That 5% is far from a game-changer and the difference with or without it won't be as noticeable as 20 damage in end game. It falls in the same category of dumb number-copy that we see in many parts of the game like in achievements (10k PvE kills - 10k PvP kills - 10k god damned flags).

The sole reason critical rate passive should be used is to help reaching specific critical rate plateaus like 20%, 25% and 30% - anything in between is skill points unwisely spent.

[keikali]

88939
If Orion offered 16% damage, that'd be one hell of an overpowered legendary pet lol. Its arcane ability boosts damage by 10%.. for three seconds. Maximum damage buff from pet is Abaddon's 15%, as far as I know.


Critical is an overrated passive. That 5% is far from a game-changer and the difference with or without it won't be as noticeable as 20 damage in end game. It falls in the same category of dumb number-copy that we see in many parts of the game like in achievements (10k PvE kills - 10k PvP kills - 10k god damned flags).

The sole reason critical rate passive should be used is to help reaching specific critical rate plateaus like 20%, 25% and 30% - anything in between is skill points unwisely spent.

Those 5 points don't have to be put into Crit, but it is still better spent in other places, whether another Passive (lolnoneleft) or another Active Skill(s). I mean how often would you run without a Pet? You can buy an Ethyl for like what? 5K nowadays? and get some whopping crit, dmg and other stat modifiers along with a nice Slow AA. Like Hector mentioned, nowadays it is very easy to grab ahold of a buff that would easily overwrite your 5% damage passives.

[Hectororius]

Orion's AA actually lasts 6 seconds according to the pet guide.

And back to the original post, and the funny part, is that I use madnex's exact build except have crit instead of damage passive (I use ethyl orion haze and abaddon). You want to control as many mobs as possible and having fire ice and clock maximizes your control skills. Light is great vs bosses and can be swapped for clock.

[Madnex]

Good point on Orion, I just threw in a random figure because those AA buffs always seem too small to be 5-6 seconds to me. I'm not actually using passive damage either at the moment since samael got my full attention from the moment he popped out but I had been kicking butt in both PvE and PvP with Ribbit and Clyde back when I was full legendary.

Damage and critical rate passives aren't really changing a lot, that much is true. That's the reason I went with versatile hybrid builds in all three of my class characters. You can't quite cut down a perfect build unless you're only using a specific pet so I'd just put enough critical passive to reach a specific plateau and then use the remaining points in gale force for faster KM3 - Jarl runs.

[Kreasadriii]

As for pets, the list below goes from lower to higher priced pets. Price doesn't always reflect the quality though, for example Ribbit is an excellent choice for any sorcerer:


Ribbit
Orion
Malison
Crawly
Clyde
Haze
Slag


Thanks a lot ^^
Only haze that I don't have yet hehe

I'll try to reach that critical point too, it's amazing damage impact.
So lightning on for fighting the boss, right?

[jb57542]

Thanks a lot ^^
Only haze that I don't have yet hehe

I'll try to reach that critical point too, it's amazing damage impact.
So lightning on for fighting the boss, right?

So many people forget to include ethyl in their list of mage pets. He is very cheap and I consider one of the top 5 pets for a mage.

[Madnex]

So many people forget to include ethyl in their list of mage pets. He is very cheap and I consider one of the top 5 pets for a mage.
Nice note, I was focusing on the non damage% pets and missed it. Added. :)

[Kreasadriii]

So many people forget to include ethyl in their list of mage pets. He is very cheap and I consider one of the top 5 pets for a mage.

Agreed about ethyl, especially ethyls skills the most usefull to control mobs ^^
And also cheap of course hehehe

[Crowsfoot]

Mages that are best crowd controluse fire and ice. Fire is a nice area of stun but the potential perma freeze of archers leads me to choose ice over fire given the option of one. From a tanking position, mages reduce our damage intake dramatically by stunning/freezing high damage units like archers (and healers if possible). Because archers usually hang back behind the main pack, ice is fairly easy to use on them without missing.

[Haligali]

Both.

Fireball, Frost bolt and Timeshift is a base of every pve build. Lightning is not so important as a one-target attack skill, thats the rogues job, but you can help them to kill bosses with it.

[Zapix]

Both.

Fireball, Frost bolt and Timeshift is a base of every pve build. Lightning is not so important as a one-target attack skill, thats the rogues job, but you can help them to kill bosses with it.

This is the answer move on.

[Kreasadriii]

Both.

Fireball, Frost bolt and Timeshift is a base of every pve build. Lightning is not so important as a one-target attack skill, thats the rogues job, but you can help them to kill bosses with it.

Yep. I use these skills in PvE and get a lot of kills ^^
Soon I'll take lightning, should I take only damage and critical, or full upgade?

[Haligali]

Yep. I use these skills in PvE and get a lot of kills ^^
Soon I'll take lightning, should I take only damage and critical, or full upgade?

If you do elites, then get only damage and critical, if you do tombs, then get the aoe chance upgrade, if you do pvp and sometimes without fireball, then get the stun chance upgrade.

[Bigboyblue]

Yep. I use these skills in PvE and get a lot of kills ^^
Soon I'll take lightning, should I take only damage and critical, or full upgade?

Damage and Critical only. The AOE is only 25% chance if you kill with it. So it is less than 25%. Lighting is only used when running non elite maps and boss fights.

As for the main question use both fireball and ice. Although if you are running elites ice is the more important skill imo.

[ALlIsWell]

Only thing i got from reading this post is CONFUSION

[Kreasadriii]

Only thing i got from reading this post is CONFUSION

We are talking about which skills better for elite maps on mage classes, and thats okay discuss little bit comparison about pet and another skills,
Wish it helpful