Endgame isn't appealing enough

[gumball3000]

Wait a second Raven, why do you say endgame is not appealing? I'm having the fun of my life playing on my level 41 toon. If you do, then good for you but take a second to look at the statistics and you will see there are only 10.000-11.000 level 41 characters in the game and looks just like a handful for a mmorpg scale game. If everyone was active then that wouldn't be such a problem but the amount of active level 41 players is dramatically lower than the total.

So what are the players doing if they are not playing at level 41? Easy answer is most of them are twinking or not playing at all. Let's compare what twinking has to offer in comparison to endgame:

92212

As we can see doing elites is the only bonus for playing 41.

Why are the people twinking? The main reasons are pretty obvious and they include the following:

Cost of gear
Having a maxed out level 41 character takes you to 150m including pets. If you really want to feel OP then maxed out gear won't exceed 20% of that price but the average twink can have fun with a lot less than that(1%-5% of 150m)

Cost of pet food
Some would argue that you should rotate pets but if you want to get serious about it then that's just not going to cut it. Feeding your main pet at level 41 costs 1k every 15 minutes, that adds up and you have to spend more time farming then you would do on your twink.

Lack of noobs
Believe it or not, endgame players are pretty sensitive about their stats and even if they are noobs they will avoid the pvp arena in order to keep their kdr clean. The chance of bumping into a noob and scoring an easy kill (which is always fun) is pretty low.

The only thing that AL offers to capped players is also the most frustrating. Elites are just not rewarding to play. Let's assume 33% of total level 41 players are Mages, if you loot a magmatic totem that leaves you a total of 3300 mages that could be interested in your item. If 90% of the mages already use an expedition riffle and they are happy with it then you can take a guess on why prices on elite gear drop every day.

Other consequences of having such a low player base at endgame:

Pick the winning side
After playing a few weeks of pvp it becomes really easy to determine which side will win in pvp. Knowing almost everyone who plays in the arena along with their overall skill and gear you can easily determine which side will win even before the game starts. This leads to the weaker side to abandon the game very fast due to the other side being too op.


Having bad events makes things worse
The last event drove people away from the game, as a result we see even less people in pvp and the elite legendary gear going way down. In the long run this can prove fatal to the game.


Guild wars and drama
This is self explanatory. Playing with the same people everyday increases the chances of guild wars and drama exponentially. Having guild wars is not necessarily a bad thing as it brings spice to the game but after everyone gets tired of fighting same people over and over again the flaming begins which results in flaming which leads to bans.

What do you think? Is it time to bring some shine on the level 41? In my opinion twinking should be fun but it shouldn't exceed what cap has to offer.
Thank you if you took the time to read all of this.

[Crowsfoot]

1) You can't make the top player, elite timed runs, or top guild leader boards as a twink.

2) Elite is a large portion of the game. And, my favorite part.

[gumball3000]

1) You can't make the top player, elite timed runs, or top guild leader boards as a twink.

2) Elite is a large portion of the game. And, my favorite part.

1) Timed runs not achievable by warriors either, and im talking about the average players here not the elite few.
2) Take a look at the price of legendary magma gear and you might reconsider that.

I am not a twink myself but many others are. This post is not about which is better but more about the statistics. 10k at endgame is an awful low amount.

[Crowsfoot]

1) Timed runs not achievable by warriors either, and im talking about the average players here not the elite few.
2) Take a look at the price of legendary magma gear and you might reconsider that.

I am not a twink myself but many others are. This post is not about which is better but more about the statistics. 10k at endgame is an awful low amount.
1) You included the leader board as achievable by twinks, I was merely adding a disclaimer.

2) Why would the value of the loot affect how much I enjoy running elite? At 100k a drop I still turn a profit weekly if you think eliters are losing money. This said, the challenge of elite is the draw for me. We have fixed pet spamming and now all we need is a One-hit-KO and parking fix.

[gumball3000]

Twinks can get the tombs and the pvp lb.

In my post i am not talking about the individual but about the masses. The fact that you enjoy running the same maps over and over again for very little profit doesnt mean everyone does, the statistics says they don't hence the low player base at 41.

[Bunny♥]

Guild wars and drama
This is self explanatory. Playing with the same people everyday increases the chances of guild wars and drama exponentially. Having guild wars is not necessarily a bad thing as it brings spice to the game but after everyone gets tired of fighting same people over and over again the flaming begins which results in flaming which leads to bans.


agree, this case is present both twinking and in end game but the difference between twink pvp dramas is that no one bothers to push a player to get banned, unlike in end game, almost everyone aims for someone to get banned. 1 fact why end game is risky since everyone is aware of the banned thingy, even slight arguments cause a player to get banned, its as crazy as that... Also, twinking is less costy, I agree, but in the long run, esp when you're a pure twink (no lvl 41 toon at all) it drains your $. I've been in that situation, trust me, even though the gears is extremely cheap but your needs will increase and will cause you to get your pocket wrecked (Even farming locks wont help). Its hard to earn $ in twinking, its pretty obvious why, you cant just wait for events to come to earn big $, its a waste of time. Compare to end game, $ is fast since you can farm from elite runs which gives you bigger $ than farming locks in brack. (if youre a twink).
so for me, end game is still better than twinking, just that its risky, you wont know tomorrow you'll open your account and its already been banned forever. Hopefully, end game players will settle and chill out about this pvp dramas or jellyness just to prevent or if possible, stop the reports of players to get banned, everyone deserves to play the game and getting banned wont help anyone, it wont help you as a reporter too.

[Kakashis]

You do elites to make bonds with others while Taking down bosses hoping for some loot! You don't need the best of the best gear to do that.

[Zylx]

I don't like elites because they are too grindy imo. I'm more into hack-n-slash, kill-a-bunch-of-enemies-at-once kinda guy and elites are too slow and boring.

[Fauksuras]

Terrific analysis.

[utpal]

I don't like elites because they are too grindy imo. I'm more into hack-n-slash, kill-a-bunch-of-enemies-at-once kinda guy and elites are too slow and boring.

same. I quit farming elites since season4. but only I run to help guildie to get AP.

[falmear]

Twinking is considerably cheaper then end game so you don't need to make as much. I don't twink but if I did I would have one end game character just for farming. Top gear isn't needed for farming. Elites isn't what it used to be and now they're an after thought with the new energy events. They have been trying to get rid of elites for a while. Without scaling the old maps, many of the spots I use to farm aren't worth my time. So you end up being limited to a couple of maps to earn any gold. Also crafting at end game is ridiculous because of the 3 crafting slots. At most twink levels you only need to worry about 2 crafting slots. So for the most part its easier to acquire gear with perfect gems at less of a cost.

[Zylx]

I don't like elites because they are too grindy imo. I'm more into hack-n-slash, kill-a-bunch-of-enemies-at-once kinda guy and elites are too slow and boring.

And i cant stand to play any game for more than 60 minutes lol. Elites usually come up at 10-30mins to complete... i feel like its a waste of time.

[Ishtmeet]

Gumball +1 to that thread. You almost stole words from my tongue. I know elites are most interesting thing to do in this game. Why to do elites? To earn gear and stuff. Those stuff is easy to sell at good prices just after the expansion. When the gear is old,everyone has it already and the items never sell in cs even after 3 re listings.. One can farm good money using elites but where is the reward for running a lot of maps? They introduced teeth, and have you ever compared the stats of those weapons purchasable with teeth? That don't even compete magmatic ones. Talking about the weapons, not armours. We loot a magma clay more of assault , maybe in 1 or 2 or 10 runs right? And we get 150 teeths by running over 300 elites. So the weapons purchased with teeths should be good and better than elite loot right? I left twinkling because of farming. Now its like boring when you have trash drops in elites that takes weeks to sell. Just my opinion, they must do something with the rewards of running lot of elite maps , so at least we have something to do. (Shuyal or above)

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[- Samdegreat]

Have a endgame for events and chat, but twink pvp is where the fun is at :)

[jeocapat]

agree, this case is present both twinking and in end game but the difference between twink pvp dramas is that no one bothers to push a player to get banned, unlike in end game, almost everyone aims for someone to get banned. 1 fact why end game is risky since everyone is aware of the banned thingy, even slight arguments cause a player to get banned, its as crazy as that... Also, twinking is less costy, I agree, but in the long run, esp when you're a pure twink (no lvl 41 toon at all) it drains your $. I've been in that situation, trust me, even though the gears is extremely cheap but your needs will increase and will cause you to get your pocket wrecked (Even farming locks wont help). Its hard to earn $ in twinking, its pretty obvious why, you cant just wait for events to come to earn big $, its a waste of time. Compare to end game, $ is fast since you can farm from elite runs which gives you bigger $ than farming locks in brack. (if youre a twink).
so for me, end game is still better than twinking, just that its risky, you wont know tomorrow you'll open your account and its already been banned forever. Hopefully, end game players will settle and chill out about this pvp dramas or jellyness just to prevent or if possible, stop the reports of players to get banned, everyone deserves to play the game and getting banned wont help anyone, it wont help you as a reporter too.
I think requesting a ban for a fellow player is one of the lamest thing ever. There is or should be a code of solidality between players and anyone shouldn't be prohibited at least not because of the intervention of a another player to enjoy the game. This code applies only to verbal disputes, harsh discussions or cat fights.

[Crowsfoot]

I think requesting a ban for a fellow player is one of the lamest thing ever. There is or should be a code of solidality between players and anyone shouldn't be prohibited at least not because of the intervention of a another player to enjoy the game. This code applies only to verbal disputes, harsh discussions or cat fights.
Some very nasty things have been said amongst players. Attacks are often personal and spam sent from multiple players in my experience. I've heard more than my share and brush it off (red herring to me) but I can definitely see how people can, and have been, deeply offended.

[Zylx]

agree, this case is present both twinking and in end game but the difference between twink pvp dramas is that no one bothers to push a player to get banned, unlike in end game, almost everyone aims for someone to get banned. 1 fact why end game is risky since everyone is aware of the banned thingy, even slight arguments cause a player to get banned, its as crazy as that... Also, twinking is less costy, I agree, but in the long run, esp when you're a pure twink (no lvl 41 toon at all) it drains your $. I've been in that situation, trust me, even though the gears is extremely cheap but your needs will increase and will cause you to get your pocket wrecked (Even farming locks wont help). Its hard to earn $ in twinking, its pretty obvious why, you cant just wait for events to come to earn big $, its a waste of time. Compare to end game, $ is fast since you can farm from elite runs which gives you bigger $ than farming locks in brack. (if youre a twink).
so for me, end game is still better than twinking, just that its risky, you wont know tomorrow you'll open your account and its already been banned forever. Hopefully, end game players will settle and chill out about this pvp dramas or jellyness just to prevent or if possible, stop the reports of players to get banned, everyone deserves to play the game and getting banned wont help anyone, it wont help you as a reporter too.
I think requesting a ban for a fellow player is one of the lamest thing ever. There is or should be a code of solidality between players and anyone shouldn't be prohibited at least not because of the intervention of a another player to enjoy the game. This code applies only to verbal disputes, harsh discussions or cat fights.

If you're banned, then there is a good reason for it. Proof is needed to ban another player. If you did nothing wrong by abiding by the T&C, then there is no proof.

Players can, however, get banned for constantly sending false reports to STS since it is considered as trolling, and it wastes their time investigating the report when they could've been helping someone in need instead.

[Legallyblonde]

I don't like elites because they are too grindy imo. I'm more into hack-n-slash, kill-a-bunch-of-enemies-at-once kinda guy and elites are too slow and boring.

Thank you!! I love elites, but I hate how long it takes. 40 minutes for some green loot is just..ew..

[Azemen]

Thank you!! I love elites, but I hate how long it takes. 40 minutes for some green loot is just..ew..

40? Partying with my guildies - all in pink gear - we can run all Tindirin elite maps in 20-25 mins tops.

Elites take skill (mob seperation, Parking, etc) and coordination. Lack of this is the reason PUGs struggle, IMO

I enjoy Elites for the challenge it offers - a test of skill. I consider the loot a bonus reward.

[Energizeric]

Have a endgame for events and chat, but twink pvp is where the fun is at :)

Hey buddy, what happened to you? did they reinstate you?

[Zeus]

Thank you!! I love elites, but I hate how long it takes. 40 minutes for some green loot is just..ew..

Run with me a few times and follow my tips. If you listen, the map time should drop to about 15 minutes on average. Of course, better gear will give you better times but I'm assuming that the players are average gear but know how to run elites.

[Valkiryas]

I love Twinka at 26, Why?

No elite maps ( I used to be a hardcore farmer but Tiridin it's ridicuosly )

Cheaper Price than Endgame Best gear ( With Twink I just spedn on mythic helm, some tarloks and hooks ) at endgame u need to spend around 150M for the best gear ( at twink just around 9M and u will become a beast )

And It's funny with less drama

[Bunny♥]

If you're banned, then there is a good reason for it. Proof is needed to ban another player. If you did nothing wrong by abiding by the T&C, then there is no proof.

Players can, however, get banned for constantly sending false reports to STS since it is considered as trolling, and it wastes their time investigating the report when they could've been helping someone in need instead.

im not banned and havent tried to get banned, lol. Dw.

[Bunny♥]

I love Twinka at 26, Why?

No elite maps ( I used to be a hardcore farmer but Tiridin it's ridicuosly )

Cheaper Price than Endgame Best gear ( With Twink I just spedn on mythic helm, some tarloks and hooks ) at endgame u need to spend around 150M for the best gear ( at twink just around 9M and u will become a beast )

And It's funny with less drama

._. are you twinka??

[Legallyblonde]

40? Partying with my guildies - all in pink gear - we can run all Tindirin elite maps in 20-25 mins tops.

Elites take skill (mob seperation, Parking, etc) and coordination. Lack of this is the reason PUGs struggle, IMO

I enjoy Elites for the challenge it offers - a test of skill. I consider the loot a bonus reward.

tru

[Zylx]

im not banned and havent tried to get banned, lol. Dw.

Lol i was just speaking generally.

[Corrupt]

Good job OP, feedback like this will help them further develop the game. Without our input they wouldn't know what to fix. I agree with you, but keep in kind they are constantly updating and monitor all of our feedback on the forums :-). Mods post often which is part of the reason I registered.
You have motivated me to create a twink :) I can't afford to compete in pvp at 41.

Possibly we could incorporate a pvp system to obtain gear with points instead of gold. Also, one idea I had recently was to create pvp zones that have requirements such as legendary items or less only to enter, so we can evenly compete :-) that may work well

[alexdroog]

I love both.
Endgame for Elite, events and casual PVP.
Twinking strictly for PvP. I have a “maxed out twink” without spending a fortune. (2 mio. twink = 150 mio. Endgame)

Btw I recommend 21-23 ---> it’s fun and no arcane gear. "Friendly" guild wars with minimum trash talking.

[Daddyblu]

Yeah so boring :(

no fun anymore other than pvp.

[- Samdegreat]

Hey buddy, what happened to you? did they reinstate you?

Unfortunately not be I still want to be part of the community :)

[Crowsfoot]

Run with me a few times and follow my tips. If you listen, the map time should drop to about 15 minutes on average. Of course, better gear will give you better times but I'm assuming that the players are average gear but know how to run elites.
Elite advice from Zeus? Urm, umm, look at the time

[Zeus]

Elite advice from Zeus? Urm, umm, look at the time

Psh, I'm not that bad at elites! Just because I'm a PvPnoob doesn't mean that I don't know how to run. :(

[Crowsfoot]

Psh, I'm not that bad at elites! Just because I'm a PvPnoob doesn't mean that I don't know how to run. :(
You are a good rogue. No offense intended, but if I listed the top 10 PvE rogues I know, your name wouldn't make the cut. However, you have been running elite a lot more lately, so maybe you stopped running in circles and hiding behind walls in Wilds xD

This said, you are still better than the majority.