So... maybe THIS is what's wrong?

[Milan Lame Man]

First let me reiterate the ways that a free player can earn gold.

- Elite loot
Plat players get better gear first, run elites, and farm them to death long before free players can catch up.
- Egg market
Even if every plat player bought all the pets, this can never be a significant source of income. Maybe a few farmers can make a living by selling some useful eggs to other free players, but in total, very little gold moves from plat players to free players.
- Gem market
Yeah ok so if you run all day, you can get enough essence for, lets be generous, 6 gems (2 of each after 6 hours in WT? about right), for a whopping <20k a day.
- Daily quests
These are a joke. OK, they can keep people busy, instead of complaining how there is nothing to do. But gold-wise? Best you can do is, say, 2k in 15 minutes in Shuyal, 2k in 15 minutes in Kraken, some 5k in 30 minutes in Tindirin. This hardly pays for pots needed to run the dailies.

This leaves us with what? Locked crates.
I have only been in game for say 9 months but Lockeds were always the main source of income of everyone I knew, either selling or opening.

I don't know if its official, but most people have realized that STS is moving away from Locked crates. Maybe they plan to get enough platinum from kits, revives & energy (I highly doubt the income can ever get close to that of Lockeds but anyway).

However, there's this funny part of free players earning gold that is somehow left unsolved.

It's fasionable to complain about energy and how it causes people to leave, but all this started back in February, when there was nothing to farm while everyone was waiting for Tindirin.
There was NO reason to open Locks since Tarlok. (maybe there was one weekend where Locks went up, but it's so long ago I cannot remember).
So we have 2 groups of people, plat players with tons of (plat and) gold they cannot spend, and free players with no ways to earn gold. This makes free players leave, and plat players bored.
Even if, by some magic, all the hoarded Lockeds are crafted and opened by the end of Ursoth, this leaves the question of sustained income unanswered.

Dear STS, is there *any* plan to give free players ways to earn gold, preferably by selling things to plat players?
Even an assurance "yes we do" would help to ease my mind :nightmare:

[Kakashis]

I won't argue with you. I ran tindirin elite for a week straight using luck lix and pots. I racked up a pot tab of over 30k per day and luck lix ran upwards of 50-60k. After a week, I spent around 600-700k. I looted junk veggie Rares, rerolled sucky silver chests. Finally, Yay I looted ONE golden chest worth less than 100k. I love elites, but I can see its hard to break even some periods of time. Using luck lix and lep in km3, I loot around 2-5 crates every 30min. Sometimes less sometimes more. One locked crate takes care of the luck lix, 2 means pots all taken care of for the entire day, 3+ is all profits. There's almost no risk and it was great as I know some locked farmers can make 50-100k+ after a few hours in a day.

Pretty sad how crate prices have dropped to 6-7k. I can see how many players will be struggling at these prices. They will take a long time to save up for anything and may never make it to elites.

[Wutzgood]

How exactly do plat players get to farm elite maps to death before non plat players get a chance? Purchasing platinum isn't gonna make you able to beat elite maps. That all depends on skill level not how much platinum you have bought lol.

On topic though I still have no problem making gold from locked farming alone. I've always found it much quicker to farm locked to buy the elite gear I need for my collection than to farm elite maps for the gear.

Overall its actually more profitable to just farm locked for gold than elite maps. Elite maps are like gambling to me. You may do good or you may end up broke.

And finding things for non plat players to sell to plat buyers is gonna be tough. Its normally the other way around where plat buyers sell bought stuff for gold.

[Crowsfoot]

Things I learned in AL that allowed me to become wealthier:

1) You can farm elite with 50k or less in gear

2) Few players have adept skill. If you can run with them (PUG) you will become a desirable player even with weak gear.

3) Time investment pays off (although more opportunities should exist)

4) Top gear, although desirous, is never required. Make a 2 season plan to get the gear you want. My goal was the Demonlord of will equivalent of the season 4 gear. I achieved that goal and went on the farm a mythic set.

5) A player with average gear and high skill is more desirable than a player with the best gear and average skill.

6) Being desired is the key to making money. (This is why I changed classes. I saw few pro warriors (most were pure damage. This has since changed due to a forum wide push first started by players like Taejo) and filled a gap. The current class I see the least "pro" players with average gear is mages which somewhat makes me regret changing class).

7) A spec is less than have of your performance.

8) Adapt.

9) Friends matter.

[FluidShot]

Dear STS, is there *any* plan to give free players ways to earn gold, preferably by selling things to plat players?
Even an assurance "yes we do" would help to ease my mind :nightmare:

I agree with everything you've said, and I personally feel the same way right now. However, this last statement won't happen.

The problem with said "plat" players is that, because of the way locked crates worked in the past, they have made tons of gold through opening them.
This is the core of the problem - the plat players already have everything the free players have, plus all the mythics, arcanes, and vanities free players dream of having. What can the free players sell them that they don't have?

The real way of making money STG is leaving us is merching - and this is the only reason you see people who haven't spent money on plat with arcane items. All the successful players in the game, even if they got themselves started initially with spending plat and opening crates, have used that money to start merching and earn more money.

[Int]

Dear STS, is there *any* plan to give free players ways to earn gold, preferably by selling things to plat players?
Even an assurance "yes we do" would help to ease my mind :nightmare:

I agree with everything you've said, and I personally feel the same way right now. However, this last statement won't happen.

The problem with said "plat" players is that, because of the way locked crates worked in the past, they have made tons of gold through opening them.
This is the core of the problem - the plat players already have everything the free players have, plus all the mythics, arcanes, and vanities free players dream of having. What can the free players sell them that they don't have?

The real way of making money STG is leaving us is merching - and this is the only reason you see people who haven't spent money on plat with arcane items. All the successful players in the game, even if they got themselves started initially with spending plat and opening crates, have used that money to start merching and earn more money.

Merching would be super hard for people trying to merch for the first time. It's quite obvious that the listing fee is quite high compared to other legends games

[Schnitzel]

Dear STS, is there *any* plan to give free players ways to earn gold, preferably by selling things to plat players?
Even an assurance "yes we do" would help to ease my mind :nightmare:

I agree with everything you've said, and I personally feel the same way right now. However, this last statement won't happen.

The problem with said "plat" players is that, because of the way locked crates worked in the past, they have made tons of gold through opening them.
This is the core of the problem - the plat players already have everything the free players have, plus all the mythics, arcanes, and vanities free players dream of having. What can the free players sell them that they don't have?

The real way of making money STG is leaving us is merching - and this is the only reason you see people who haven't spent money on plat with arcane items. All the successful players in the game, even if they got themselves started initially with spending plat and opening crates, have used that money to start merching and earn more money.

Merching would be super hard for people trying to merch for the first time. It's quite obvious that the listing fee is quite high compared to other legends games

To be honest i actually never noticed the listing fee..been surviving on selling glacial, fire, and blood gems for the whole time ive been playing...

[FluidShot]

Merching would be super hard for people trying to merch for the first time. It's quite obvious that the listing fee is quite high compared to other legends games

I agree, but in fairness, it's the only way to get ahead. So they'll need to learn how to at some point. There's a great guide that I don't have the link to, but it explicitly lists the items you should merch depending on your gold supply.
And the listing fee only becomes a problem when you begin to merch items that are collector only, and that don't sell. I haven't had an item not sell in a few months - just focusing on medium value items that aren't consumables (older legendary weapons).

[GuardianTwo]

Things I learned in AL that allowed me to become wealthier:

1) You can farm elite with 50k or less in gear

2) Few players have adept skill. If you can run with them (PUG) you will become a desirable player even with weak gear.

3) Time investment pays off (although more opportunities should exist)

4) Top gear, although desirous, is never required. Make a 2 season plan to get the gear you want. My goal was the Demonlord of will equivalent of the season 4 gear. I achieved that goal and went on the farm a mythic set.

5) A player with average gear and high skill is more desirable than a player with the best gear and average skill.

6) Being desired is the key to making money. (This is why I changed classes. I saw few pro warriors (most were pure damage. This has since changed due to a forum wide push first started by players like Taejo) and filled a gap. The current class I see the least "pro" players with average gear is mages which somewhat makes me regret changing class).

7) A spec is less than have of your performance.

8) Adapt.

9) Friends matter.

Sorry Crow , I disagree with some,as u said a player with average gear higher skill is more desirable,
But when going in for PUG at elite when someone like this person enter, who is there to see the skill, everyone just leaves by seeing only stats... That are average not nooblike totally ..
And I agree with remaining.. :)

[Crowsfoot]

Sorry Crow , I disagree with some,as u said a player with average gear higher skill is more desirable,
But when going in for PUG at elite when someone like this person enter, who is there to see the skill, everyone just leaves by seeing only stats... That are average not nooblike totally ..
I PUG all the time. My benchmarks for whether I stay are extremely low.

Mage:
500 DPS
700 armor

Rogue:
500 DPS
1000 armor

Warrior:
Don't care, just be no more than 2 in the whole party.

If players impress me I usually encourage them to try out for ER. I've met and recruited two of my close in game friends this way.

---

Obviously you need a founded group to be desired in. A guild is the easiest of these to form. I have a definent bias in who I prefer to run with and what I like to see party members do. As the tank I spend a lot of time watching, and then responding, to what my party members do. There are some players that can instantly form a party because people want to run with them. This doesn't always reflect gear in my experience.

[GuardianTwo]

Thnx crow for giving those benchmarks that u consider, I hope everyone have some nearer benchmark to those , but , I am the mage with 500+dps 900+armor near 3k hp without a pet , but I have expirienced people just leaving me alone on map.
And for that guild matter, that's why I atlast joined ER B) , cause I am just a farmer lol . And yes I have felt the guild name's power lol , now atleast they don't leave seeing my guild in PUG. :P

[Crowsfoot]

Thnx crow for those benchmarks that u consider, I hope everyone have some nearer benchmark to those , but , I am the mage with 500+dps 900+armor near 3k hp without a pet , but I have expirienced people just leaving me alone on map.
And for that guild matter, that's why I atlast joined ER B) , cause I am just a farmer lol . And yes I have felt the guild name's power lol , now atleast they don't leave seeing my guild in PUG. :P
ER holds its name well due to the required try outs. Almost everyone in ER is capable of running any elite map. Definitely, anyone who has been at ER for more than a month can run any elite map. If not, there is a problem that should be addressed.

"We all started out fighting stabb with common weapons"

[Milan Lame Man]

1) You can farm elite with 50k or less in gear
There's elite and elite...
I could probably run the easy ones, but if everyone did like with Lockeds... there is only so many Snaggles and Firesquids you can sell.
I believe it's possible to do Jagged Trail in pinks, with super conservative pulls and good party maybe 60 minutes and lots of pots... but I don't see it paying off, which was my point.


8) Adapt.
Trying but I see no way out of this, that's why I made the post :-/


9) Friends matter.
Yeah too late I realized that the best guild is your friend list.

Anyway even if I don't agree with most of your points, I thanked you because you care ;-)


However, this last statement (gold from from rich to poor) won't happen.
I offered the idea of making dragon teeth a desirable commodity. Platters will never have enough time to farm these, because they have to earn real money. It wasn't quite accepted but it's one possibility.


I agree, but in fairness, it (merching) is the only way to get ahead.
So we all sit in CS and magically everyone gets rich? It may work for some, but I doubt it would work for everyone.
But yes, I forgot to mention merching as a way to get gold. I probably should give it a try :ambivalence:

[utpal]

its true. but thats the difference between plats and non plat users.
nonplat users should put alot more time then plat users.

plats users can effectively convert plat to gold by selling those tradable kits and lep at beginning. then buy elite magma set. and farm elites.

moreover u r too worried about in game. play for fun and refreshment.
u seems to be very addicted to this game.

non plat can do free offers even if ifs not enough u need to buy atleast some plats to be happy in game.

[Crowsfoot]

There's elite and elite...
I could probably run the easy ones, but if everyone did like with Lockeds... there is only so many Snaggles and Firesquids you can sell.
I believe it's possible to do Jagged Trail in pinks, with super conservative pulls and good party maybe 60 minutes and lots of pots... but I don't see it paying off, which was my point.

You can PUG wilds with cheap gear. I use both wilds PUGs and Oltgar PUGs to try and recruit people. beyond that, you can run any map with pinks in less than an hour. The only one close to an hour is rocjhorn which can take 30-40min. The longest trails I did this season was just over 20 minute. The only mage disconnected 2 pulls in and the two rogues in all lengedaries wanted to ouch through.

Trying but I see no way out of this, that's why I made the post :-/

What have you tried? I started where everyone else did, fighting stabb with common items, and I never bought plat. I see countless players make "rags to riches" just because it isn't easy doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Yeah too late I realized that the best guild is your friend list.

Shows what you know. I was in that guild for PvP. After leaving they tried to get me back for about a week and now all I get is hate mail (for my mates who still try to recruit me back, THAT is why it is a definite NO) or courtesy PMs from players I knew from before Pride (with the exception of Zeus). Those people usually talk about off game material anyways. Of the Karma and Magnum guilds, only 6 people still talk to me and none are from Magnum. 4 of them I met in ER. Only Zeus runs elite currently and I've done two maos with him this season; Caves when I borrowed a another friend's gear, and wilds when i went for the "elite cracking the egg" AP. When I said "friends matter" I didn't mean in high places. Having players you trust and play with often helps both you and them improve while making it easier to form parties. There is less time sitting around if two or there people are willing to party up with you whenever you log on.

Anyway even if I don't agree with most of your points, I thanked you because you care ;-)

So personal experiences aren't reliable?

I offered the idea of making dragon teeth a desirable commodity. Platters will never have enough time to farm these, because they have to earn real money. It wasn't quite accepted but it's one possibility.


So we all sit in CS and magically everyone gets rich? It may work for some, but I doubt it would work for everyone.
But yes, I forgot to mention merching as a way to get gold. I probably should give it a try :ambivalence:

Response in bold.

[Doomreaper]

I remember back in the day when locks were worth almost nothing


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[yasshh]

I remember back in the day when locks were worth almost nothing


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Back when it was released it dropped like crazy from hauntlet and was worth like 400-600 gold

[Doomreaper]

Back when it was released it dropped like crazy from hauntlet and was worth like 400-600 gold

Imagine the profit that could have been made if you had bought back then and then sold a few months ago


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[yasshh]

Imagine the profit that could have been made if you had bought back then and then sold a few months ago


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep.. But nobody thought of merching back those days.. Most people earned gold by farming demonlord and vorpals and malisons Wish i bought a few 100's though.. *is noob at predicting prices *

[Crowsfoot]

Back when it was released it dropped like crazy from hauntlet and was worth like 400-600 gold
Also, the only good item in them was DWS which everyone laughed at since they had the same exact stats as vorpals.

Anyone else remember "locked tag"? We legitimately played tag with them because they never sold. Then Hammarjaw, Mythic helms, and arcane hooks were added in Season 3.

[tharidom]

When i used my magma gear (which i sold:/) i noticed elites being easier than with myth, so all maps should be easy for a legendary/epic warrior since even i can do it:)

[yasshh]

Also, the only good item in them was DWS which everyone laughed at since they had the same exact stats as vorpals.

Anyone else remember "locked tag"? We legitimately played tag with them because they never sold. Then Hammarjaw, Mythic helms, and arcane hooks were added in Season 3.

Yep.. The first item that came in crates was hj in end of s2.. Later hooks and helm was added

[Crowsfoot]

When i used my magma gear (which i sold:/) i noticed elites being easier than with myth, so all maps should be easy for a legendary/epic warrior since even i can do it:)
Dragonscale of security set, emberglow ring, ashral shard, conquerer's wall = 1900-2000 armor (and dirt cheap)

2070 armor with a talisman
2160 armor with magma will plate
2150 armor with magma will helm
---
2380 potential armor with all pinks.

Add an archon and your armor can reach upwards of 2450 armor with all pinks.

[Energizeric]

Yes, it all depends on what someone is willing to give up. From what I have seen, legendary players usually try to overcompensate on damage and end up too weak in armor and health. For elites your damage is not so important, but your health and armor are much more important. If you stay alive you will finish the dungeon faster than if you keep dying. With less damage it will take a little longer but you will get it done.

[Crowsfoot]

Yes, it all depends on what someone is willing to give up. From what I have seen, legendary players usually try to overcompensate on damage and end up too weak in armor and health. For elites your damage is not so important, but your health and armor are much more important. If you stay alive you will finish the dungeon faster than if you keep dying. With less damage it will take a little longer but you will get it done.
^this

I started my trek, per say, to top gear using security gear (lowest damage, highest armor and mana) and a shield weapon. Not dying is faster than average damage.

[tharidom]

My old main:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/thaar11/2014-06/2F778222-9390-4A04-94D0-57DC438565B8_zpskaizzik5.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/thaar11/media/2014-06/2F778222-9390-4A04-94D0-57DC438565B8_zpskaizzik5.png.html)

Juggernaut is active so -500 hp.

My new main:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/thaar11/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-06/B939E47B-D0E7-447F-AB28-644C51B5CC3D_zpsjwpreeau.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/thaar11/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-06/B939E47B-D0E7-447F-AB28-644C51B5CC3D_zpsjwpreeau.png.html)

The elites with myths only get harder for me while looking at my hp and armor (yes theres is a lvl difference).

[Sorcerie]

To the OP,...

I feel you Mil, the fact that the biggest source of income for free players is dropping so dramatically is troubling, cause if there is no reason for plat users to feel like opening them then there's no way for their riches to trickle down into the free player economy, and if feels like I'm not getting anywhere in this game then I'm not gonna want to play it.

And with prices like 7k I've already started to feel a decline in my interest, and it's not because I don't farm with good players or my skills aren't desirable. It's just that the market is so stale, and this new energy event system has alienated many of the free players who are/were trying to get ahead on locked crates.

It's like, ok we get it now, you want us to spend money on plat. Thanks for shoving it down our throats. >.>;

Now the farmers have to struggle twice as hard as before to get where they want.

[Crowsfoot]

Then farm elite instead of locks. We have the strongest elite influenced economy in 4 seasons.

[tharidom]

You can always try begging at people like crow (rich players) ;).

[Crowsfoot]

You can always try begging at people like crow (rich players) ;).
My response to anyone who asks for gold, "Sorry, this ATM is currently out of order."

For awhile I added "try PMing the bank of 'Zeus'" to the end of that message. But, I stopped doing that after Zeus never PMed me a complaint in the month and a half I did it. Lol. I'm too lazy to type it out if they don't follow through.

[tharidom]

Haha

[tharidom]

That wouldnt work for me though since i dont want gold but fortified glaive and ruby:3 (still)-_-.

[Crowsfoot]

That wouldnt work for me though since i dont want gold but fortified glaive and ruby:3 (still)-_-.
"Sorry, this thrift store is currently under maintenance."

PS: I have neither so you are SOL there anyway.

[utpal]

hey Crow,
my lvl40 mage got 3.4k+ HP, 370+dmg, 470+dps and 950+ armour. (without pet).
is it good? (I mostly use prance, koko and Orion)
my mage seems tanky, right? yeah coz I put 5:1 int:str only to strengthen my shield.

[Crowsfoot]

hey Crow,
my lvl40 mage got 3.4k+ HP, 370+dmg, 470+dps and 950+ armour. (without pet).
is it good? (I mostly use prance, koko and Orion)
my mage seems tanky, right? yeah coz I put 5:1 int:str only to strengthen my shield.
I'm not sure if you intended to come off sharp but that is how it appears. If I offended you (or anyone else) in anyway, I apologize. I'm don't believe I have done anything, but feel free to point out any ad homines.

---

Furthermore, I fail to see the relevance of this post. Could you please expand upon it?

[utpal]

sry. my phone bad. my phone didn't quoted your post about the benchmarks u said.

[Crowsfoot]

I'm not sure if you intended to come off sharp but that is how it appears. If I offended you (or anyone else) in anyway, I apologize. I'm don't believe I have done anything, but feel free to point out any ad homines.

---

Furthermore, I fail to see the relevance of this post. Could you please expand upon it?


sry. my phone bad. my phone didn't quoted your post about the benchmarks u said.
???

[utpal]

I PUG all the time. My benchmarks for whether I stay are extremely low.

Mage:
500 DPS
700 armor

Rogue:
500 DPS
1000 armor
.

I wanted to reply to your this post. LOL.
now u get it?

[Crowsfoot]

I wanted to reply to your this post. LOL.
now u get it?
Oooooooh. BTW, that benchmark is for staff users (more of them in PUGs). I assume you use a gun, no?

[utpal]

I PUG all the time. My benchmarks for whether I stay are extremely low.

Mage:
500 DPS
700 armor

Rogue:
500 DPS
1000 armor

Warrior:
Don't care, just be no more than 2 in the whole party.

If players impress me I usually encourage them to try out for ER. I've met and recruited two of my close in game friends this way.

---

Obviously you need a founded group to be desired in. A guild is the easiest of these to form. I have a definent bias in who I prefer to run with and what I like to see party members do. As the tank I spend a lot of time watching, and then responding, to what my party members do. There are some players that can instantly form a party because people want to run with them. This doesn't always reflect gear in my experience.

yep I use gun. will buy totem of brutality at lvl41