Is it by Design? Why is the Attack Range of Bulwark Ridiculously Short?

[Uicheusa]

If something finally comes into your reach when you are equipped with Bulwark, you can probably hit it by your fist too.

Glaive has the longest reach among all available warrior weapons at the moment.

Conquerer's wall (legendary shield) has medium attack range, which is twice of what Bulwark has.

They say Bulwark can hit 3 targets at a time, but with this kind of attack range, its merit sounds more like a joke.

96814

A complete miss. Try to replicate the result with any other weapon in AL :)


Bulwark's hit range is so short that I once got kited by a gunman (yes! the mob!) in Kraken... True story...


I have tried so many times in PVP, while I could hit an opponent who is standing still roughly 2m away from me with a Conquerer's Wall, an attack initiated by a Bulwark would totally miss the target in the same range. BTW, I tried both with a charged normal attack.

In a different scenario I tried to hit a rogue on the other side in some casual encounters, but like 85% (charged & normal) of my attempt ended up failing. This kind of thing never happened before no matter which kind of weapon I used.

Also, I noticed that with any other weapon equipped, if your attack is slightly off your target, it will be directed to a land a successful hit by taking your character half a step closer to your target. This is done automatically in both PVP and PVE.

However, with Bulwark equipped, my character seems to lose this kind of auto adjustment.

So I guess Dev can try to repeat my little experiment to see what actually went wrong with Bulwark.

[utpal]

omg. I was saving gold for it . better is tht old conqueror wall. it also proc stuns alot at Helena and ursoth and also gives armour proc. which is good at boss fight.

[Uicheusa]

I am so sick of that I have to charge the normal attack for like two second only to find out that my attack completely misses my target in PVE.

[Ishtmeet]

omg. I was saving gold for it . better is tht old conqueror wall. it also proc stuns alot at Helena and ursoth and also gives armour proc. which is good at boss fight.

Conqueror wall doesnt stuns. It procs an armour coat for 5 secs. That stun , probably is because of your skyward smash.

Sent from my Gpad_G1 using Tapatalk

[utpal]

@ish bhai
I dnt use hammer neither axe. and I use ribbit.
I was doing solo with my low lvl alt, Helena and Ursoth was getting stunned even tho I haven't used charged normal attack. I just spam normal attack since shield has high dps. i use windmill only whn too mch vines come.

when it procs, I see some gaseous substance in their (bosses) head and get stunned and sometime I get armour.

u can try too. just spam normal attack and u will stun rendtail too.

[Energizeric]

They obviously need to fix the Bulwark. Just a look at the price tells all.

[Ishtmeet]

@ish bhai
I dnt use hammer neither axe. and I use ribbit.
I was doing solo with my low lvl alt, Helena and Ursoth was getting stunned even tho I haven't used charged normal attack. I just spam normal attack since shield has high dps. i use windmill only whn too mch vines come.

when it procs, I see some gaseous substance in their (bosses) head and get stunned and sometime I get armour.

u can try too. just spam normal attack and u will stun rendtail too.

Ohh does that really happen? I tanked every elite tindrin with conqueror stuff and many times i saw alagran and abomination troll stunned. I used to think its because of my skyward smash. Well, thanks for telling bhai. Ill look into this :) i wish it is true.
Btw tumhara ign kya hai? Mujhe add karna, ign mere signature mai hai. :)

Sent from my Gpad_G1 using Tapatalk

[Benworushi]

ye !need mobs very close then u can attack 3 target. ....

[Jxmaa]

Tip : Throw your Bulwark out of the window .
It seriously needs a nerf.

[Anarchist]

Tip : Throw your Bulwark out of the window .
It seriously needs a nerf.

Buff*

[FluffNStuff]

Tip : Throw your Bulwark out of the window .
It seriously needs a nerf.

That would give it more range! Works the same for my golf clubs!

[gumball3000]

Conqueror wall doesnt stuns. It procs an armour coat for 5 secs. That stun , probably is because of your skyward smash.

Sent from my Gpad_G1 using Tapatalk

Come on man, it says right there that it does stun and it stunned for me many times on uncharged attack.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/enuny9yq.jpg

[Mehmet Tuncay]

If something finally comes into your reach when you are equipped with Bulwark, you can probably hit it by your fist too.

Glaive has the longest reach among all available warrior weapons at the moment.

Conquerer's wall (legendary shield) has medium attack range, which is twice of what Bulwark has.

They say Bulwark can hit 3 targets at a time, but with this kind of attack range, its merit sounds more like a joke. Mersinmehmet

[Kakashis]

Conquer does stun and proc armor. Some would say that's enough for elites. I agree to buffing it, but a buff in the direction of tanking. More hp and armor, don't give it more damage. It's not meant for that and shouldn't be. Everyone should stop playing pvp and give elites some love.

[Crowsfoot]

The basic attack is worthless in many ways. However, it is an area based attack with a medium radius when charged.

The secret proc is triggered 100% of the time when charged anyways.

[Crowsfoot]

Conquer does stun and proc armor. Some would say that's enough for elites. I agree to buffing it, but a buff in the direction of tanking. More hp and armor, don't give it more damage. It's not meant for that and shouldn't be. Everyone should stop playing pvp and give elites some love.
Damage and DPS help hold aggro. Here are a few percents relating to the bulwark to consider

A lvl 41 Conqueror's Wall has 32.5_% more armor than a lvl 36 Northern Tower.

A lvl41 Bulwark has 23_% more armor than a lvl 31 Pavise

A lvl 31 Pavise has 101_% more armor than a lvl 31 Northern Tower

A lvl 41 Bulwark has 86.5_% more armor than a lvl 41 Conqueror's Wall

Additionally, the Pavise had both higher DPS and Damage than the Northern tower by a hefty amount. By contrast, the Bulwark has similar damage but less DPS than its legendary counterpart.

[Carapace]

Hey guys,

I've taken a look at the data for the Bulwark, and wanted to share my results!

From what I see, the range of the Bulwark is identical to that of any Sword & Board in the game currently. This includes the Pavise, Conquistador, Fire, Nordr, etc items of the same category. The 3 enemy cleave is also intact, and they all share the same 180 degree hit cone in front of the tank.

Where the design may be misunderstood however, is in the charged attack. The charged attack on the Bulwark will 100% of the time apply an Elondrian Curse to the affected enemies, which acts similar to the Sorcerer Curse. It reduces enemy armor, hit chance (not in pvp), and reflects damage dealt by the afflicted enemy/player. This is the true offensive ability of the Bulwark and why the charged attack takes longer to charge (1.5 Seconds).

The Bulwark overall is designed as a tanking weapon, and not an offensive weapon. The Curse is useful in crowds mainly, and can be very effective against bosses when keeping up the curse (denoted by the bubbly green effect). This is of cours eon top of the passive proc that summons the Elondrian Spirit when taking damage.

Sorry if some of this information was not conveyed in an articulate enough way, but I promise if you play with the bulwark a bit you'll find it quite useful. :)

[Crowsfoot]

Hey guys,

I've taken a look at the data for the Bulwark, and wanted to share my results!

From what I see, the range of the Bulwark is identical to that of any Sword & Board in the game currently. This includes the Pavise, Conquistador, Fire, Nordr, etc items of the same category. The 3 enemy cleave is also intact, and they all share the same 180 degree hit cone in front of the tank.

Where the design may be misunderstood however, is in the charged attack. The charged attack on the Bulwark will 100% of the time apply an Elondrian Curse to the affected enemies, which acts similar to the Sorcerer Curse. It reduces enemy armor, hit chance (not in pvp), and reflects damage dealt by the afflicted enemy/player. This is the true offensive ability of the Bulwark and why the charged attack takes longer to charge (1.5 Seconds).

The Bulwark overall is designed as a tanking weapon, and not an offensive weapon. The Curse is useful in crowds mainly, and can be very effective against bosses when keeping up the curse (denoted by the bubbly green effect). This is of cours eon top of the passive proc that summons the Elondrian Spirit when taking damage.

Sorry if some of this information was not conveyed in an articulate enough way, but I promise if you play with the bulwark a bit you'll find it quite useful. :)
Isn't damage reflected from curse proportional to damage intake? The Bulwark's reflect is not.

I tested the reflect on an elite Breckenridge goblin and an elite Tindirin Shaman. Both mobs, although dealing widely differing damage to me, were receiving an average of 120 damage per hit of the reflect. I had no buffs active and no pet equipped. I have no idea if DoT attacks trigger the reflect, I plan to do more testing once mine is done gemming.

[Carapace]

Isn't damage reflected from curse proportional to damage intake? The Bulwark's reflect is not.

I tested the reflect on an elite Breckenridge goblin and an elite Tindirin Shaman. Both mobs, although dealing widely differing damage to me, were receiving an average of 120 damage per hit of the reflect. I had no buffs active and no pet equipped. I have no idea if DoT attacks trigger the reflect, I plan to do more testing once mine is done gemming.

The reflection damage is based on the raw Damage value of the attacker, and does not include modifiers for things like level difference, scaled bonus damage and the like which is why you're seeing such things I imagine

[utpal]

Ohh does that really happen?

obviously bhai.
see this

Come on ishmeet, it says right there that it does stun and it stunned for me many times on uncharged attack.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/11/enuny9yq.jpg

bhai, check every weapon description before buying or using XD.

[Crowsfoot]

It's based on the raw Damage value of the attacker, and does not include modifiers for things like level difference, scaled bonus damage and the like which is why you're seeing such things I imagine
So the bulwark, an extremely low damage weapon, deals approximately half the user's damage stat as reflect damage? Mildly dispointing. I understand making it proportional to damage intake encourages low armor tanks to use it in PvP and may become OP. However, the gear now encourages high damage and thus lower survivability. Wouldn't basing the reflect on armor be a good compromise? That would mainly help the PvE aspect since no tank will do PvP with under 400 DPS.

One thing I did notice, is the reflect damage was causing mobs be less likely to attack another target. Is this because the hits are considered to be dealt by the user, unlike a DoT, or is there a taunt aspect to the proc?

[Crowsfoot]

@the conqueror's wall, many mobs are immune to the stun. I've only seen it work on spear users and archers.

[utpal]

@the conqueror's wall, many mobs are immune to the stun. I've only seen it work on spear users and archers.

who care mobs when it can stun all bosses (yes including OP bosses Helena, ursoth, rendtail, inan and alargan)
it also stun those green serpent dragons in rockhorn summit map.
dnt know about armaldo dragons.

[Serancha]

So to the point. Is there any buff planned on this weapon at all? It's worth less than 1/4 of the other mythics, which is all the proof we need that it is a highly undesirable weapon in its current form.

[utpal]

So to the point. Is there any buff planned on this weapon at all? It's worth less than 1/4 of the other mythics, which is all the proof we need that it is a highly undesirable weapon in its current form.

I dnt see a hint of buffing it on dev's reply.

[Crowsfoot]

So to the point. Is there any buff planned on this weapon at all? It's worth less than 1/4 of the other mythics, which is all the proof we need that it is a highly undesirable weapon in its current form.
That's what it sounds like. Not going to stop me from typing up a thread on possible changes after I can test more (1 day and 16 hours left on my last gem).

[Carapace]

So the bulwark, an extremely low damage weapon, deals approximately half the user's damage stat as reflect damage? Mildly dispointing. I understand making it proportional to damage intake encourages low armor tanks to use it in PvP and may become OP. However, the gear now encourages high damage and thus lower survivability. Wouldn't basing the reflect on armor be a good compromise? That would mainly help the PvE aspect since no tank will do PvP with under 400 DPS.

One thing I did notice, is the reflect damage was causing mobs be less likely to attack another target. Is this because the hits are considered to be dealt by the user, unlike a DoT, or is there a taunt aspect to the proc?

Seems I was misunderstood, that is how the Curse damage the attacker takes reflected back on them is calculated. Using the attackers raw damage value. The players stats are irrelevant in the reflection damage related to the curse.

It does in fact generate a bit more hate, because that extra damage being dealt from the reflection is still coming off of you.

[mahony]

ok im confused ... is bulwark better than glaive ?

[Carapace]

ok im confused ... is bulwark better than glaive ?

They are different. The Glaive is an offensive weapon, while the Bulwark is primarily a defensive weapon. It is apples to oranges based on how you play your warrior in my opinion.

[mahony]

so bulwark isn't good its a defensive weapon ? lol im disapointed

[Crowsfoot]

Seems I was misunderstood, that is how the Curse damage the attacker takes reflected back on them is calculated. Using the attackers raw damage value.
Good to know, disproves a lot of things I've been told by players in game (I admit that I have never tested curse myself first hand).

However, mages are typically high damage players where warriors are extremely low. Not to mention that charging the bulwark is inhibited by potion spamming and a long charge time. In the two runs I tested it in, I was only able to charge the bulwark when around half the pull was dead at which point I would (the following is an assumotion, i ahve yet to test (I have a method in mind)) have netted higher damage output using a conqueror's wall. The reflect is also less appealing in a boss fight than a magmatic claymore.

I support a buff of some sort for the Bulwark. What it should be I don't know exactly but plan to narrow my opinion in a few days.

[Zeus]

They are different. The Glaive is an offensive weapon, while the Bulwark is primarily a defensive weapon. It is apples to oranges based on how you play your warrior in my opinion.

Except that the glaive's proc makes it both offensive and defensive.

[Crowsfoot]

Except that the glaive's proc makes it both offensive and defensive.
It also has two procs that are extremely powerful (the armor/Str buff and the pierce effect). One is offensive/defensive and one is pure offense.

The Bulwark has two weaker procs one defensive (+10% armor which is weekend by my passive 5% armor and a low heal) and offensive/defensive (reflect which is low damage output).

[Zeus]

It also has two procs that are extremely powerful (the armor/Str buff and the pierce effect). One is offensive/defensive and one is pure offense.

The Bulwark has two weaker procs one defensive (+10% armor which is weekend by my passive 5% armor and a low heal) and offensive/defensive (reflect which is low damage output).


So overall, it's not a weapon to use. I have not noticed a warrior become any more durable by utilizing this weapon.

[Carapace]

We are certainly interested in any ideas related to potentially bumping this item, and something may happen in the future. I'm interested in the idea of WHAT the community would like to see buffed, whether a damage buff would feel appropriate or some deeper defensive stats to really solidify its tankability.

Thanks guys!

[Crowsfoot]

We are certainly interested in any ideas related to potentially bumping this item, and something may happen in the future. I'm interested in the idea of WHAT the community would like to see buffed, whether a damage buff would feel appropriate or some deeper defensive stats to really solidify its tankability.

Thanks guys!
I plan to post a purely PvE analysis in a few days (3-5? Depends on real life).

Glad to see that the bulwark is open to possible changes.

---

Thank you for the clarifications and confirmations provided.

[mahony]

so will the bulwark be buffed or changed yes or no cuz i want to know !

[Crowsfoot]

so will the bulwark be buffed or changed yes or no cuz i want to know !
Maybe....maybe not....




Maybe?

[mahony]

Maybe....maybe not....




Maybe?
crowsfoot what is your opinion buy pavise or buy bulwark ? (and how much to pay for pavise +15 ?)

[Crowsfoot]

crowsfoot what is your opinion buy pavise or buy bulwark ? (and how much to pay for pavise +15 ?)
Pavise can't hold aggro well. I tested one and had to switch to a conqueror's wall by the third pull. The slow basic attack speed and extremely low damage makes it out dated. I bought a bulwark.

[Madnex]

We are certainly interested in any ideas related to potentially bumping this item, and something may happen in the future. I'm interested in the idea of WHAT the community would like to see buffed, whether a damage buff would feel appropriate or some deeper defensive stats to really solidify its tankability.

Thanks guys!
From what I've gathered asking warriors who tried it, a DPS buff around +20-30 would help. Also, consider giving a 25% chance of the Curse proc to happen on a normal attack.

[Ravager]

We are certainly interested in any ideas related to potentially bumping this item, and something may happen in the future. I'm interested in the idea of WHAT the community would like to see buffed, whether a damage buff would feel appropriate or some deeper defensive stats to really solidify its tankability.

Thanks guys!

Use a combination or selection of the suggestions:

- Decrease charge time on attack
- Increase dmg/dps closer to that of Magmatic Claymore
- Make the proc of the charge attack occur randomly while using normal attack.
- Increase the forward attack range of the weapon.
- Perhaps add a PVE only stun proc similar to Pavise

We want this weapon to be comparable to level 46 legendaries / elite legendaries.
We want this weapon to increase in value. Currently the bulwark is about 4m, gun about 12m, bow about 21m. We need to consider what buffs would be necessary to increase the price of the Bulwark 8m making it the price similar to the gun (at the least).

We want this weapon to last.

[Madnex]

Pavise can't hold aggro well. I tested one and had to switch to a conqueror's wall by the third pull. The slow basic attack speed and extremely low damage makes it out dated. I bought a bulwark.
For elite Tindirin, you can almost triple the proc rate if you drive the pulls close to a magma geyser and you stand on it. So for me, Glaive for 1-2-4 and Pavise for 3-5. :)

[Crowsfoot]

For elite Tindirin, you can almost triple the proc rate if you drive the pulls close to a magma geyser and you stand on it. So for me, Glaive for 1-2-4 and Pavise for 3-5. :)
Only way to use the pavise really since you deal almost no damage. I disagree on using the pavise on map 5 though. Map 5 is the second easiest for me to run, I don't see why I would want to use a pavise.

I like the glaive, but I would need either a high survival pet (Abby or singe) or an arcane ring for it to replace a shield weapon for me. In a perfect world, my gear would be as follows: Glaive, myth helm, druid will plate, arcane ring, wild talisman of will. Heavy armor, high HP, and excellent DPS/damage. However, being what I have. A bulwark is a nice compromise. It will last one season, but my set up is my #2 choice for gear set.

[Zeus]

Carapace,

Keep in mind that weapons are a major reason why people play - everybody wants a cool new weapon to swing around and enjoy! Right now, for warriors those weapons are: Maul & Glaive. It has been this way for months now and unless something is done to radically change the weapon to perform well both offensively and defensively, it will be a wash.

The playstyle comment you make is appropriate, however, at the same time, does not mesh. Why? Well, by releasing one mythic weapon per cap - you are basically dictating a class's playstyle which isn't exactly right. Then, a player has to deal with this and if that player got the short hand of the stick - desire to play decreases.

For rogues, we never really get the short end of the stick. As a result, playing a rogue is always enjoyable for me.

For sorcerers and warriors, their desired weapons come every two caps. The other two caps, they are left with weapons that show to be powerful on stats but do not reflect that in game.


So, a major buff with an increase in damage &/or proc rate + curse proc should be given to these warriors. All other weapons are OP so why can't a warrior's weapon be OP as well?

I'm currently hitting 6k crits in PvP with the new bow. That's almost 2x the health of the average players hp bar! A bit more armor will not reduce that sort of damage and that is why the sword and shield fails.

[Uicheusa]

I have tried so many times in PVP, while I could hit an opponent who is standing still roughly 2m away from me with a Conquerer's Wall, an attack initiated by a Bulwark would totally miss the target in the same range. BTW, I tried both with a charged normal attack.

Also I have tried to hit a rogue on the other side in some casual encounters, but like 85% (charged & normal) of my attempt ended up failing. This kind of thing never happened before no matter which kind of weapon I used.

So I guess Dev can try to repeat my little experiment to see what actually went wrong with Bulwark.

[Crowsfoot]

Carapace,

Keep in mind that weapons are a major reason why people play - everybody wants a cool new weapon to swing around and enjoy! Right now, for warriors those weapons are: Maul & Glaive. It has been this way for months now and unless something is done to radically change the weapon to perform well both offensively and defensively, it will be a wash.

The playstyle comment you make is appropriate, however, at the same time, does not mesh. Why? Well, by releasing one mythic weapon per cap - you are basically dictating a class's playstyle which isn't exactly right. Then, a player has to deal with this and if that player got the short hand of the stick - desire to play decreases.

For rogues, we never really get the short end of the stick. As a result, playing a rogue is always enjoyable for me.

For sorcerers and warriors, their desired weapons come every two caps. The other two caps, they are left with weapons that show to be powerful on stats but do not reflect that in game.


So, a major buff with an increase in damage &/or proc rate + curse proc should be given to these warriors. All other weapons are OP so why can't a warrior's weapon be OP as well?

I'm currently hitting 6k crits in PvP with the new bow. That's almost 2x the health of the average players hp bar! A bit more armor will not reduce that sort of damage and that is why the sword and shield fails.
1) we have discussed how biased it is to post damage output with buffs :eyeroll:

2) I may just cap my mage and try him out. The upside to shields is even poor tanks can be decent simply by having taunt skills. However, as the tank it is just a spasm of trying to out taunt the DPS players. The glaive and maul both allow off tanking. And have awesome procs. The bulwark has two procs that are fancy but weak. The weapon is even weaker than the pavise relative to its season.

I won't set my opinion in stone until further testing. But, I can say it needs a buff. What the buff should be is the only question I have left.

[Zeus]

1) we have discussed how biased it is to post damage output with buffs :eyeroll:

2) I may just cap my mage and try him out. The upside to shields is even poor tanks can be decent simply by having taunt skills. However, as the tank it is just a spasm of trying to out taunt the DPS players. The glaive and maul both allow off tanking. And have awesome procs. The bulwark has two procs that are fancy but weak. The weapon is even weaker than the pavise relative to its season.

I won't set my opinion in stone until further testing. But, I can say it needs a buff. What the buff should be is the only question I have left.

I'm hitting 6k crits on mages with no damage buff other than my pet. Nobody was assisting me. :/

[Crowsfoot]

I'm hitting 6k crits on mages with no damage buff other than my pet. Nobody was assisting me. :/
On mages who have 35-50% of the armor of a warrior :rolleyes: yet you said "a bit more armor will not reduce that sort of damage." Which is wrong, you just throw cotton balls as attacks to do it and then you have time to land two crits.

PS: feeble

---

A shield weapon will never be powerful in PvP unless you are flagging, oh wait, you have to kill the opposing flagger now. Jk, stay in elites.

The shield weapon should be stronger than the passive, relative to season, since both new mythic weapons for the other classes are. The weapon itself will never be for PvP and shouldn't be.

[Serancha]

I'm hitting 6k crits on mages with no damage buff other than my pet. Nobody was assisting me. :/

You're also one of the 2% of players who has both arcane ring and mythic bow. While i agree 100% with the warrior weapon needing a serious buff, I don't think the crit of a maxed out rogue can be considered "the norm" for a comparison.

(In other words let's not get our smexy bow nerfed instead of getting the fatties their buff)

[tharidom]

You're also one of the 2% of players who has both arcane ring and mythic bow. While i agree 100% with the warrior weapon needing a serious buff, I don't think the crit of a maxed out rogue can be considered "the norm" for a comparison.

(In other words let's not get our smexy bow nerfed instead of getting the fatties their buff)

Don't u also agree he should make a contest;):banana:.

[Zeus]

On mages who have 35-50% of the armor of a warrior :rolleyes: yet you said "a bit more armor will not reduce that sort of damage." Which is wrong, you just throw cotton balls as attacks to do it and then you have time to land two crits.

PS: feeble

---

A shield weapon will never be powerful in PvP unless you are flagging, oh wait, you have to kill the opposing flagger now. Jk, stay in elites.

The shield weapon should be stronger than the passive, relative to season, since both new mythic weapons for the other classes are. The weapon itself will never be for PvP and shouldn't be.

Okay, I hit 5k+ on warriors with 2k+ armor. You can ask those who PvP with me - these numbers are not exaggerated. Additionally, the only feeble that is long range is axe throw (and it has a short feeble). Chest splatter is usually easily outmanuverable.

@Sera
I've taken off the ring and fought with just the bow. The bow alone grants over a 100 damage increase when compared to the previous generation mythic weapon. Even the arcane ring did not give such a huge bonus. Isn't it a bit ridiculous to have a 100 damage increase over the mythic daggers? Damage was already a problem as I mentioned before - now, it is even moreso.

To compensate and give bulwark value, it has to be both decent in PvE and PvP. Higher level gears generally are not bought specifically for PvE as those maps can be run with/without mythics. Usually, those that buy mythic weapons for the sake of PvE are enthusiasts.




The shield weapon will never truly be a powerful weapon in PvP, I agree. However, going back to my point: people buy mythic weapons for PvP. All other classes have a current generation weapon that can be used effectively in PvE and PvP (even mages). I must ask, why can warriors not be allowed the same privilidge? Instead, they get surprisingly strong in alternating caps which I'm sure cannot be too effective at retaining already bored players.

[tharidom]

Okay, I hit 5k+ on warriors with 2k+ armor. You can ask those who PvP with me - these numbers are not exaggerated. Additionally, the only feeble that is long range is axe throw (and it has a short feeble). Chest splatter is usually easily outmanuverable.

@Sera
I've taken off the ring and fought with just the bow. The bow alone grants over a 100 damage increase when compared to the previous generation mythic weapon. Even the arcane ring did not give such a huge bonus. Isn't it a bit ridiculous to have a 100 damage increase over the mythic daggers? Damage was already a problem as I mentioned before - now, it is even moreso.

To compensate and give bulwark value, it has to be both decent in PvE and PvP. Higher level gears generally are not bought specifically for PvE as those maps can be run with/without mythics. Usually, those that buy mythic weapons for the sake of PvE are enthusiasts.




The shield weapon will never truly be a powerful weapon in PvP, I agree. However, going back to my point: people buy mythic weapons for PvP. All other classes have a current generation weapon that can be used effectively in PvE and PvP (even mages). I must ask, why can warriors not be allowed the same privilidge? Instead, they get surprisingly strong in alternating caps which I'm sure cannot be too effective at retaining already bored players.

People like u made pvp boring-_-" people like me are completly chanceless.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/thaar11/F2CBBFC0-7630-49F9-B6B6-136BCE5FB156_zpse1sjelqp.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/thaar11/media/F2CBBFC0-7630-49F9-B6B6-136BCE5FB156_zpse1sjelqp.png.html)

[Zeus]

People like u made pvp boring-_-" people like me are completly chanceless.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/thaar11/F2CBBFC0-7630-49F9-B6B6-136BCE5FB156_zpse1sjelqp.png (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/thaar11/media/F2CBBFC0-7630-49F9-B6B6-136BCE5FB156_zpse1sjelqp.png.html)

I'm asking for the damage to be lowered so others actually have a chance. How am I making PvP boring? If anything, it would make PvP less boring if I wasn't running around 1 hitting nearly everything & 2 hitting tanks.

I know for a fact that those with bow and a mythic ring are capable of the same thing as well. The fact is the damage output for rogues is far beyond today's health bar and armor. So, either the damage needs to be nerfed or the health and armor need to be increased proportionately.

This is a common flaw in all of STG's games. As the level cap gets higher, STG seems to forget the importance of armor and health & only brings out things that boost damage (which is what people think that they want). However, then one has situations like this where rogues become insanely overpowered.

[tharidom]

I'm asking for the damage to be lowered so others actually have a chance. How am I making PvP boring? If anything, it would make PvP less boring if I wasn't running around 1 hitting nearly everything & 2 hitting tanks.

I know for a fact that those with bow and a mythic ring are capable of the same thing as well. The fact is the damage output for rogues is far beyond today's health bar and armor. So, either the damage needs to be nerfed or the health and armor need to be increased proportionately.

This is a common flaw in all of STG's games. As the level cap gets higher, STG seems to forget the importance of armor and health & only brings out things that boost damage (which is what people think that they want). However, then one has situations like this where rogues become insanely overpowered.

People like u make it boring because nobody else stands a chance anymore, it is nice though that ur asking sts to fix it:).

[FluffNStuff]

Woohoo, enthusiast! And Zeus, I kill you if you get my cannon nerfed!

[Crowsfoot]

I'm asking for the damage to be lowered so others actually have a chance. How am I making PvP boring? If anything, it would make PvP less boring if I wasn't running around 1 hitting nearly everything & 2 hitting tanks.

I know for a fact that those with bow and a mythic ring are capable of the same thing as well. The fact is the damage output for rogues is far beyond today's health bar and armor. So, either the damage needs to be nerfed or the health and armor need to be increased proportionately.

This is a common flaw in all of STG's games. As the level cap gets higher, STG seems to forget the importance of armor and health & only brings out things that boost damage (which is what people think that they want). However, then one has situations like this where rogues become insanely overpowered.
Zeus, just give all your gold to Tharidom. I promise he will stop complaining xD

[Zeus]

Woohoo, enthusiast! And Zeus, I kill you if you get my cannon nerfed!

How can you kill me if your cannon is nerfed? xD


Additionally, another effective solution would be to bump up the damage reduction that a rogue faces when entering PvP. So, instead of a 10% damage nerf, a 15-20% damage nerf sounds pretty good.

[FluffNStuff]

How can you kill me if your cannon is nerfed? xD

Oh, you thought I meant in game ... Yeah, that

[Crowsfoot]

How can you kill me if your cannon is nerfed? xD


Additionally, another effective solution would be to bump up the damage reduction that a rogue faces when entering PvP. So, instead of a 10% damage nerf, a 15-20% damage nerf sounds pretty good.
This sounds great for twinks who are already being bludgeoned to deatg by warriors.

[FluffNStuff]

How can you kill me if your cannon is nerfed? xD


Additionally, another effective solution would be to bump up the damage reduction that a rogue faces when entering PvP. So, instead of a 10% damage nerf, a 15-20% damage nerf sounds pretty good.

Turns our Might be booking a flight.

Flight canceled, PvP nerf requested, not
OP Fluff slaughter fest nerf!

[Crowsfoot]

Woohoo, enthusiast! And Zeus, I kill you if you get my cannon nerfed!


How can you kill me if your cannon is nerfed? xD


Oh, you thought I meant in game ... Yeah, that
Press X to respawn, Zeus.

[Zeus]

This sounds great for twinks who are already being bludgeoned to deatg by warriors.

True, I didn't think about it on a twink level. I guess nerfing the bow and me dying at the hands of Fluff & Serancha is a good solution!

*writes will*

Hmm, who do I grant arcane ring to? O_O

[Crowsfoot]

True, I didn't think about it on a twink level. I guess nerfing the bow and me dying at the hands of Fluff & Serancha is a good solution!

*writes will*

Hmm, who do I grant arcane ring to? O_O
I think they will likely mug you too. Just saying, I would. No shame.

[FluffNStuff]

True, I didn't think about it on a twink level. I guess nerfing the bow and me dying at the hands of Fluff & Serancha is a good solution!

*writes will*

Hmm, who do I grant arcane ring to? O_O

So single damage power hitters are getting killed by by twink warriors? Of course they are. Rogue damage has a geometric curve, like ... The Bird. Can't have a sharp curve on the character and still expect them to be good at end game and twink. That's just not how it works.

[Crowsfoot]

So single damage power hitters are getting killed by by twink warriors? Of course they are. Rogue damage has a geometric curve, like ... The Bird. Can't have a sharp curve on the character and still expect them to be good at end game and twink. That's just not how it works.
Their proportional stats are actually linear, the most linear of any class. Warriors have an inherent advantage at low levels due to VB and their proportionally lower damage isn't he far of a draw back since damage isn't calculated relative to level.

Geometric is still quite a hyperbole even if it isn't totally linear.

[FluffNStuff]

Their proportional stats are actually linear, the most linear of any class. Warriors have an inherent advantage at low levels due to VB and their proportionally lower damage isn't he far of a draw back since damage isn't calculated relative to level.

Geometric is still quite a hyperbole even if it isn't totally linear.

Sorry, I sometimes forget what is common knowledge. Carry on.

[Uicheusa]

Guys, while sharing your opinion is deeply appreciated here, please stay on point and keep it troll-free.

[Crowsfoot]

Guys, while sharing your opinion is deeply appreciated here, please stay on point and keep it troll-free.

Hey guys,

I've taken a look at the data for the Bulwark, and wanted to share my results!

From what I see, the range of the Bulwark is identical to that of any Sword & Board in the game currently. This includes the Pavise, Conquistador, Fire, Nordr, etc items of the same category. The 3 enemy cleave is also intact, and they all share the same 180 degree hit cone in front of the tank.

Myth Busted! The end.

[Uicheusa]

Bulwark's hit range is so short that I got kited by a gunman (yes! the mob!) in Kraken...

True story...

[Uicheusa]

As for Carapace, I tried so many times in map with both Bulwark and Conquerer's Wall by hitting stationary target like a barrel.

With a range in which you can barely hit your object with a Conquerer's Wall, you will never hit with a Bulwark.

[Crowsfoot]

As for Carapace, I tried so many times in map with both Bulwark and Conquerer's Wall by hitting stationary target like a barrel.

With a range in which you can barely hit your object with a Conquerer's Wall, you will never hit with a Bulwark.
Carapace is a Dev. He's right. There are no opinions here, he just deals with facts.

[Uicheusa]

96571
A complete miss.

Try to replicate the result with any other weapon in AL :)

[Uicheusa]

Also, I noticed that with any other weapon equipped, if your attack is slightly off your target, it will be directed to a land a successful hit by taking your character half a step closer to your target. This is done automatically in both PVP and PVE.

However, with Bulwark equipped, my character seems to lose this kind of auto adjustment.

[utpal]

too lazy to quote lol.
but,
Zeus crit 5k+ to warrior of 2k+ armour ? LOL.
thank God I dnt pvp in endgame.

at twink lvls warriors are OP :).

NERF THE BOW PLZ. ITS DMG IS OFFCHART.

and about buffing bulwark,
either it should have nice proc or high dps and some good armour (atleast 400 armour) with lil bit more HP buff

[tharidom]

Zeus, just give all your gold to Tharidom. I promise he will stop complaining xD

Sounds good to me:p.

Edit: 20mill also will do thoughXD.

[Haligali]

Maybe add a samael like passive mana+hp healing to the bulwark? It will make it useful for long seasons, also good in pvp clashes.

[mahony]

Atack range increase like pavise and add 10-30 dmg more or dont add dmg add buff 25 Str with normal hit atack.

[SacredKnight]

An interesting thread....
But in my perspective I still find the Pavise to be my favourite :). Insooth it is terribly out dated but it is a lvl 31 weapon and we are still comparing it to weapons of this generation, if you can get its proc to spam that would be amazing...for me I got the weapons proc 7 times in a row, makes for a easy to kill mob in elite whom are stunned beyond all recognition.

I also like the Pavise not for its proc, but for its look. It is the only Mythic grade weapon to date that has a light circle/ring and on another note I think it looks "swag".

P.S. Be grateful that you can actually AFFORD weapons like this, think about all the poor players whom dream of Ripmaw in their stable...

[Crowsfoot]

Maybe add a samael like passive mana+hp healing to the bulwark? It will make it useful for long seasons, also good in pvp clashes.
This encourages players to stand near the tank risking damage from area based attacks and having a higher chance to steal my aggro.

-1

This would only be beneficial in PvP.

[Crowsfoot]

An interesting thread....
But in my perspective I still find the Pavise to be my favourite :). Insooth it is terribly out dated but it is a lvl 31 weapon and we are still comparing it to weapons of this generation, if you can get its proc to spam that would be amazing...for me I got the weapons proc 7 times in a row, makes for a easy to kill mob in elite whom are stunned beyond all recognition.

I also like the Pavise not for its proc, but for its look. It is the only Mythic grade weapon to date that has a light circle/ring and on another note I think it looks "swag".

P.S. Be grateful that you can actually AFFORD weapons like this, think about all the poor players whom dream of Ripmaw in their stable...
I am grateful. My frustration is when people say " yeah, but I'm not rich like you so I can't get that gear" or "well I don't have an arcane ring like you." Neither one is true. I am constantly attacked as the guy who is biased by being rich. I had 20k a champion security set, a northern tower, and epic jewelry at the start of season 4. I think I know a little bit about farming better gear and tanking elite since I ended the season with a mythic helm, armor, amulet and an entombed warfare (no myth ring, used fangmaster).

If you notice, the player complaining he can't have the same gear as me because Im rich needed less than 50k to match me. He then changed his argument to I don't want to. Many players have more expensive gear than me and lower HP and armor (*cough* magmatic claymore of assault) and then say they can't afford my gear. You can, but you chose DPS instead which is great if you are running maps deathless.

[tharidom]

I am grateful. My frustration is when people say " yeah, but I'm not rich like you so I can't get that gear" or "well I don't have an arcane ring like you." Neither one is true. I am constantly attacked as the guy who is biased by being rich. I had 20k a champion security set, a northern tower, and epic jewelry at the start of season 4. I think I know a little bit about farming better gear and tanking elite since I ended the season with a mythic helm, armor, amulet and an entombed warfare (no myth ring, used fangmaster).

If you notice, the player complaining he can't have the same gear as me because Im rich needed less than 50k to match me. He then changed his argument to I don't want to. Many players have more expensive gear than me and lower HP and armor (*cough* magmatic claymore of assault) and then say they can't afford my gear. You can, but you chose DPS instead which is great if you are running maps deathless.

Heheheh, this sounds like the discussion/conversation we had yesterday:3.

[Crowsfoot]

Heheheh, this sounds like the discussion/conversation we had yesterday:3.
It should since it is a summary of the discussion we had yesterday.

[tharidom]

It should since it is a summary of the discussion we had yesterday.

Zeus still didn't give me gold though=( :3.

[Haligali]

This encourages players to stand near the tank risking damage from area based attacks and having a higher chance to steal my aggro.

-1

This would only be beneficial in PvP.

How you heal them with horn if they stay far back then? The passive healing on samael is large enough i think, it will make the bulwark more useful in pvp.

[Crowsfoot]

How you heal them with horn if they stay far back then? The passive healing on samael is large enough i think, it will make the bulwark more useful in pvp.
I have to move closer to my allies to cast HoR. I rarely can cast it by staying still. When I can, I am generally closer than I wish to be to the DPS. If you want to put a crazy wide radius on it and only heal HP, I'm game.

[Capolista]

Conqueror wall doesnt stuns. It procs an armour coat for 5 secs. That stun , probably is because of your skyward smash.

Sent from my Gpad_G1 using Tapatalk

Conqueror wall did stun bosses,

Tested on helena & ursoth

96761

[Waheedski]

Zeus still didn't give me gold though=( :3.

If Zeus gave everyone who plays AL 10 mill, he'd still have 300 mill left over :)

[tharidom]

If Zeus gave everyone who plays AL 10 mill, he'd still have 300 mill left over :)

But I wanted all his gold (or atleast 20mill to buy a glaive) :/ =(. Crow promised me:3.

[Waheedski]

But I wanted all his gold (or atleast 20mill to buy a glaive) :/ =(. Crow promised me:3.

Goblin glaive is your best bet yet, sorry.

[Crowsfoot]

But I wanted all his gold (or atleast 20mill to buy a glaive) :/ =(. Crow promised me:3.
I promised you would stop complaining. I did not however promise you would see a cent from Zeus.

PS: you've taken the joke too far. Let it rest.

[Uicheusa]

Thread upgraded with more testing results.

[Crowsfoot]

Thread upgraded with more testing results.
In forming a claim that the bulwark doesn't function as a conqueror's wall, you may want to test (and show pictures) of the conqueror's wall's performance as well since you currently have a one sided argument.

PS: Dev confirmed they use the same aiming factors as the conqueror's wall on the bulwark, you are beating a dead horse with this thread.

[Uicheusa]

In forming a claim that the bulwark doesn't function as a conqueror's wall, you may want to test (and show pictures) of the conqueror's wall's performance as well since you currently have a one sided argument.

PS: Dev confirmed they use the same aiming factors as the conqueror's wall on the bulwark, you are beating a dead horse with this thread.

This is not scientific experiment.

I am writing down my user experience, simple as that.

[Paunazaca]

Hey guys,

I've taken a look at the data for the Bulwark, and wanted to share my results!

From what I see, the range of the Bulwark is identical to that of any Sword & Board in the game currently. This includes the Pavise, Conquistador, Fire, Nordr, etc items of the same category. The 3 enemy cleave is also intact, and they all share the same 180 degree hit cone in front of the tank.

Where the design may be misunderstood however, is in the charged attack. The charged attack on the Bulwark will 100% of the time apply an Elondrian Curse to the affected enemies, which acts similar to the Sorcerer Curse. It reduces enemy armor, hit chance (not in pvp), and reflects damage dealt by the afflicted enemy/player. This is the true offensive ability of the Bulwark and why the charged attack takes longer to charge (1.5 Seconds).

The Bulwark overall is designed as a tanking weapon, and not an offensive weapon. The Curse is useful in crowds mainly, and can be very effective against bosses when keeping up the curse (denoted by the bubbly green effect). This is of cours eon top of the passive proc that summons the Elondrian Spirit when taking damage.

Sorry if some of this information was not conveyed in an articulate enough way, but I promise if you play with the bulwark a bit you'll find it quite useful. :)

Hi guys, i have Bulwark and i tested it well:

I would like to confirm Crowsfoot and Ravager findings, curse reflected dmg from any mob or boss is 120-+5, so it cant be related to damage dealt by enemy.
The difference in dmg dealt by Elite Brack and Elite Shuyal mobs is like 20 times. If dev intended to relate the curse dmg to attacker raw dmg, that
should be fixed and would be much more interesting.

I would like to add some findings:
I dont understand, why trigger hit reduce on charged attack? Means curse will apply much less (apply when you get hit) times and curse is a main active proc. This sounds not logical to me.
Time duration of curse is too low, and also charging time is high.
Or to adjust time duration of a curse or charging time of a weapon. I would like to see rather curse last longer.Why? When i hit mobs they look after me, but i usualy run forward and they cant hit me then :)
Many says Pavise stun proc is cool. Ye it is, but have you seen how slow that weapon is? Bulwark is much faster. If it has also stun, that would be awesome. I think Bulwark should be un upgraded Pavise with new features.
I can get it that this is a tank weapon and thats why armor is over dmg, but i like also to solo some elite maps, dunno why it has to take
much more time? I have to change weapon for that? Dmg should be close to magma or goblin glaive.
Difference in armor of Bulwark and Pavise is too small compared to how Trinidin, Shuyal or Nord elite maps got harder.
Spirit proc should activate to all pt members at once, beacuse when triggers means high dmg is taken by tank at that moment.

Dev like to balance all, well please consider also this findings.
Thanks for reading :)

[Jirikjurasek]

One note for charged attack:
when I apply Elondrian Curse (which last 5s), it falls after 5s no matter if I spam charged attack. If I use charget attack during previsous Elondrian Curse is still active, it should apply new Curse.

In actual situation I use 3 times charget attack and Curse falls after 0,5s.

Interesting improvement should be some stack effect (i.e. +50% reflected dmg, that will be usefull again bosses)

[Crowsfoot]

One note for charged attack:
when I apply Elondrian Curse (which last 5s), it falls after 5s no matter if I spam charged attack. If I use charget attack during previsous Elondrian Curse is still active, it should apply new Curse.

In actual situation I use 3 times charget attack and Curse falls after 0,5s.

Interesting improvement should be some stack effect (i.e. +50% reflected dmg, that will be usefull again bosses)
Like effects don't stack. This isn't a glitch. Same applies to any buff or debuff from a pet's AA, actual curse, RC, etc.

[Markus Reynaldus]

Any news if this weap will be fixed?

[GoodSyntax]

I would actually like to see a 20% Armor Reduction AoE passive on the Bulwark. It doesn't have to be huge, basically the range of HoR.

I think that this would really enhance the sword & board for both elite PvE and PvP, since the effect would be equally devastating in either case!

[Mehmet Tuncay]

ozur dilerim sizi cok seviyorum arcane legends

[obee]

Are they gonna fix it?

[Pedgon]

Hey guys,

I've taken a look at the data for the Bulwark, and wanted to share my results!

From what I see, the range of the Bulwark is identical to that of any Sword & Board in the game currently. This includes the Pavise, Conquistador, Fire, Nordr, etc items of the same category. The 3 enemy cleave is also intact, and they all share the same 180 degree hit cone in front of the tank.

Where the design may be misunderstood however, is in the charged attack. The charged attack on the Bulwark will 100% of the time apply an Elondrian Curse to the affected enemies, which acts similar to the Sorcerer Curse. It reduces enemy armor, hit chance (not in pvp), and reflects damage dealt by the afflicted enemy/player. This is the true offensive ability of the Bulwark and why the charged attack takes longer to charge (1.5 Seconds).

The Bulwark overall is designed as a tanking weapon, and not an offensive weapon. The Curse is useful in crowds mainly, and can be very effective against bosses when keeping up the curse (denoted by the bubbly green effect). This is of cours eon top of the passive proc that summons the Elondrian Spirit when taking damage.

Sorry if some of this information was not conveyed in an articulate enough way, but I promise if you play with the bulwark a bit you'll find it quite useful. :)

Hello Carapace,

Sorry to disagree but Bulwark's range IS NOT the same of those weapons you said before, 100% SURE!

Hit cone isnt 180º, for sure also, and if you make a single move you will miss target..kind of ridiculous! Same happens with charged attacks. -.-(I had tested it in pvp and pve, comparing with many other shield weapons and non-shield)

And, like Uicheusa said - "Also, I noticed that with any other weapon equipped, if your attack is slightly off your target, it will be directed to a land a successful hit by taking your character half a step closer to your target. This is done automatically in both PVP and PVE." -, this doesnt happen with Bulwark..

...so - with the shortest range ever on a tank weapon + minimal hit cone + and no "auto-aim" when short distance - all this make Bulwark a total failure as a tank weapon, not disregarding, of course, the extreme low damage/dps..but this another "problem" that should be fixed! Or even the "low" armor, if we compare it with level 31 Pavise:

Pavise level 31 - 247 armor
Bulwark level 41 - 304 armor

only 57 more armor?? hummm sorry but this doesnt make any sense...like all the rest already referred on this thread! =/

I can also talk about the USELESS reverse "low damage" proc, when charging Bulwark for almost 2 sec -.- (that, in my opinion, should be switched for pierce attacks or panic/terrify chance), or even the "HORRIBLE" horn while using bulwark, but this one is also related with damage value as we know..

Actually, the ONLY GOOD THING on bulwark seems to be the spirit proc, with reasonable heal buff and 250 armor buff for all team close to Bulwark spirit, though armor buff only lasts for 5 sec, maybe 10 sec just like heal buff should be more appropriated!!

So...can u please STOP saying Bulwark is "Ok" and that doesn't need to get fixed, because you know this is not true at all!

Its a MYTHIC LEVEL 41 WEAPON ffs -.- It's "nice" for tanking, yes, but OVERALL it doesn't fit all the "requisites" for a level 41 mythic weapon, NOT EVEN CLOSE!! far far far away... :tranquillity:

(PS: about shark week...HUGE THANKS for ruining game of all those players with a lot ripmaw's eggs on their stash -.-)

[rokksteady]

everyone knew shark week was coming.....ur own damn fault for hoarding rip maw eggs....hahahah

[Memnoch The Devil]

When they released the new mythic weapons for all classes the idea was to bring a more equallity betten classes... or at least thats what i understood... for me that meant that even in pvp as a warrior with bulwark i should have the same chances as a rogue or mage to kill my oponents ... i understand that is a defensive weapon... that means that i have higher life and armour so i can take more dmg... they should make the weapons in such a way that we all have same chances off killing if we are equpt with same stuff, meaning mythic ring, amulet, armor, helmet and weapon, the only thing that should make us better is our skill of playing... so when they fix the bulwark that how they should try the bulwark ... even if is a defensive weapon should not mean that is good for pve only should also be good for pvp... otherwise the warrior got a bad weapon no mather what the buff if is only ussable in pve.. all weapon and otber stuff should make us equal in pvp the only difference should be how good we are to use our skills.

PS: Remiem said in chatbox they we should expect a fix, and if im not mistaken in the arena testing platform we should find the revised version of the bulwark... so yes the bulwark would get a buff