Small PvP system changes

[asommers]

I'm about to start some PvP system changes for 1.7. Nothing major, but I'd like to get your feedback on what is fair when players leave in the middle of combat.

I can:
1) Grant them a death
2) Don't let them rejoin that game
3) Add a disconnect stat and increment that. So, kills/deaths/disconnects would be shown on their avatar page and the leaderboard

A player would be considered in combat if the game is not finished, and they have dealt or taken damage within the last 10 seconds.

-ALS

PS. In the future, we would only count kills/deaths for Spacetime-hosted games, where you can't boot, games are "full", we have a queuing system, etc.

[krazii]

Give them a death and ban them from playing pvp for a day :) be harsh

[FluffNStuff]

I'm about to start some PvP system changes for 1.7. Nothing major, but I'd like to get your feedback on what is fair when players leave in the middle of combat.

I can:
1) Grant them a death
2) Don't let them rejoin that game
3) Add a disconnect stat and increment that. So, kills/deaths/disconnects would be shown on their avatar page and the leaderboard

A player would be considered in combat if the game is not finished, and they have dealt or taken damage within the last 10 seconds.

-ALS

PS. In the future, we would only count kills/deaths for Spacetime-hosted games, where you can't boot, games are "full", we have a queuing system, etc.

Is 10 seconds long enough? Don't people do this after the other person has died to get back their health / mana, or are they doing this in the middle of a fight they think they are losing?

[FluffNStuff]

Hmm, two other questions. Can your system tell the different between a person leaving and person being 'lagged out'. Also, to combat what is unfortunately going to happen next, there should be a penalty if someone 'boots' someone who has done damage to them or they have done damage to.

[pretticlan]

dont let them rejoin. theres very bad lag for most people on PL and,, if we get a death everytime we get disconnected........

[Lesrider]

Hmm I don't play pvp much, but I think the third would be most accurate. That way people can try to avoid them. If it counts as a death, it might be misleading to others.
Does anyone ever actually get disconnected mid-battle? Or are the battles too short for it to ever be anything besides cowardice?

[Echelong]

Give them a death (should not affect the stats of the game) Some people leave the game to join the other team to balance things out. And you can add the stat for disconnects but this should be shown always since people can hide stats from others.

[Kossi]

i vote grant them a death! epic idea

[lce]

2..But most people leave cause of lag like me...my connection is unstable

[superglut2]

Give them a disconnect, so u wont screw around witj the stats and ppl see potential leavers.. WOuld be much mich better

[BlasterBird]

The problem with leavers is they leave to preserve there kill/death ratio, so I would personally choose #1 as I doubt they care about disconnects with the leaderboards

A couple other suggestions if your willing ;)

Maybe an option for the host to make it a 1 vs 1 type thing (if someone gets attacked or attacks someone, you are initiated in combat with the other person and cannot change targets until 5(?) Seconds after combat has ended, giving the winner a chance to also regroup) or sort of a free for all type of game where teaming is allowed.

Edit: And boosters are a big thing also, this idea is lacking for now, but maybe after 100/0 kill/death ratio, you wouldn't be able to kill someone until you die? Nobody can kill 100 people without dieing, and coupled with giving leavers a death, boosters would be dead. The leaderboard for kill/death ratio could be changed hourly maybe? Wiping the previous people off and encouraging others to pvp to get on the boards.

I'm not sure how hard this would be to implement, so diregard the last 2 things (1 vs 1 option, and booster fix) if it seems too challenging.

Thanks for asking us! Most games (that i've tried) don't give two hoots what players think.

[regie831]

I don't care which one..all those ideas are great

[superglut2]

Maybe add a daily pvp leaderboard and weekly! Great idea :-)

[Thelonearcher]

I like this. Thumbs up sts

[BlasterBird]

I like this. Thumbs up sts

He wants people to pick which execution style ;)

Which would you choose lone?

[MoarPewPew]

Well, I think not one of the ideas should be implemented. Personally I tend to leave PVP games if there is an imbalance of the number of players and rejoin to balance the teams.

Example is if it is 1v3 I would leave the game and join the same game so it's 2v2.

This would penalize all players including the ones that try to balance the teams. Asommers you should only implement these ideas until the game has ranked PVP matches. It's not really necessary at this time because PVP has no benefits to your characters ATM.

[BlasterBird]

Well, I think not one of the ideas should be implemented. Personally I tend to leave PVP games if there is an imbalance of the number of players and rejoin to balance the teams.

Example is if it is 1v3 I would leave the game and join the same game so it's 2v2.

This would penalize all players including the ones that try to balance the teams. Asommers you should only implement these ideas until the game has ranked PVP matches. It's not really necessary at this time because PVP has no benefits to your characters ATM.

I would refer to my post with the 1 vs 1 idea, I think they need to be implemented with a safe guard against stacked teams.

[Djinn80]

I say give them a deal and don't let them rejoin for 30 seconds.

Another GREAT feature would be to allow us to "switch teams" without leaving and trying to rejoin.

[BlasterBird]

I say give them a deal and don't let them rejoin for 30 seconds.

Another GREAT feature would be to allow us to "switch teams" without leaving and trying to rejoin.

I'm not quite sure how you would distinguish leaving from switching teams. If it is possible, It's a good idea.

[MoarPewPew]

I would refer to my post with the 1 vs 1 idea, I think they need to be implemented with a safe guard against stacked teams.

Still none of these penalties should happen until PVP effects our gameplay. I do not boost and I have to admit I'm not great at PVP. I personally think STS should focus on other areas in PVP rather than peoples kill death records. At this time k/d does nothing so why is this a high priority?

I trust the STS team but until PVP effects our game experience (weps or other items) it should not need to be high priority for 1.7.

[asommers]

Well, I think not one of the ideas should be implemented. Personally I tend to leave PVP games if there is an imbalance of the number of players and rejoin to balance the teams.

Example is if it is 1v3 I would leave the game and join the same game so it's 2v2.

This would penalize all players including the ones that try to balance the teams. Asommers you should only implement these ideas until the game has ranked PVP matches. It's not really necessary at this time because PVP has no benefits to your characters ATM.

See my original post. I would only give a death/disconnect if you left when "in combat". If you're not in combat, switch teams all you want with no penalty.

-ALS

[asommers]

Is 10 seconds long enough? Don't people do this after the other person has died to get back their health / mana, or are they doing this in the middle of a fight they think they are losing?

In the middle of a fight they are about to lose.


Hmm, two other questions. Can your system tell the different between a person leaving and person being 'lagged out'. Also, to combat what is unfortunately going to happen next, there should be a penalty if someone 'boots' someone who has done damage to them or they have done damage to.

Yes, we know when a player has disconnected vs. leaving intentionally.

The booting thing will be fixed when we have official Spacetime matches. In the meantime, only join someone's PvP game that you trust if you're worried about them booting you when you're winning.

-ALS

[Residentevil]

See my original post. I would only give a death/disconnect if you left when "in combat". If you're not in combat, switch teams all you want with no penalty.

-ALS

What is considered in combat?

[BlasterBird]

What is considered in combat?

Damage taken or dealt within 10 seconds.

[asommers]

What is considered in combat?

According to my original post:

A player would be considered in combat if the game is not finished, and they have dealt or taken damage within the last 10 seconds.

-ALS

[Residentevil]

According to my original post:

A player would be considered in combat if the game is not finished, and they have dealt or taken damage within the last 10 seconds.

-ALS

Well then i would say adding a death is fine, if its in the case of a 3v1 or something like that, then the 1 may leave just as a fight would start and get a death added. However staying would likely do the same thing so its kind of a forced death in some cases, even more so with the very long range of mega and cyber blasters. Perhaps requiring buffs being used within such time should also be added to this.

[MoarPewPew]

See my original post. I would only give a death/disconnect if you left when "in combat". If you're not in combat, switch teams all you want with no penalty.

-ALS

Mmmk... I trust you. Lol

Side note: but relevant

Most people attack you Asap when you join pvp though causing you to join combat.(Makes it aggravating)So why not make players immune for a 3 second period when they spawn. (and they can not attack as well for the 3 second period)

[MoarPewPew]

According to my original post:

A player would be considered in combat if the game is not finished, and they have dealt or taken damage within the last 10 seconds.

-ALS


So if they attacked within 10 seconds and died they are still in combat?

Seems odd that you can be combat when dead. Would you be penalized if you attacked within 10 seconds and left after you died before the timer reset?? :0.

[BlasterBird]

Still none of these penalties should happen until PVP effects our gameplay. I do not boost and I have to admit I'm not great at PVP. I personally think STS should focus on other areas in PVP rather than peoples kill death records. At this time k/d does nothing so why is this a high priority?

I trust the STS team but until PVP effects our game experience (weps or other items) it should not need to be high priority for 1.7.


They may aswell start though, I don't mind it coming little by little. And without the leavers/boosters, The game rewards will be more challenging. Who doesn't love a challenge? ;)

Im just saying if rewards are implemented, without these things in place, this would be the scenario;

Player 1: I own, I got cool armorz and equipz.
Player 2: Wow, how long did it take you?
Player 1: I got it in 3 hrs, I boosted.

It deflates the purpose of pvp in my opinion. At lvl 50, it is way more easy-going and this doesn't happen.

Thanks for looking! ;)

[asommers]

So if they attacked within 10 seconds and died they are still in combat?

Seems odd that you can be combat when dead. Would you be penalized if you attacked within 10 seconds and left after you died before the timer reset?? :0.

If you leave when dead, you already have a death, so no disconnect.

Disconnect = The game isn't finished, they're still alive, they have dealt or taken damage within 10 seconds, and they intentionally leave.

-ALS

[TwinkTastical]

Death, death, death

Also, Clear all those pvp kd boosters off.

[MoarPewPew]

Thank you for the clarification. Good luck with the 1.7 client. :)

[Diodge]

3) Add a disconnect stat and increment that. So, kills/deaths/disconnects would be shown on their avatar page and the leaderboard

[Kossi]

^no thank you lol

just...death

[Lovenus]

Message Deleted

[Skyron]

Give them a disconnect count, so people could see if the player is fairplay or not.
A player with a big count of kills and same disconnect will be a very bad pvper

[BlasterBird]

Give them a disconnect count, so people could see if the player is fairplay or not.
A player with a big count of kills and same disconnect will be a very bad pvper

The only problem with the disconnect thing, they still keep the same kill/death ratio. Most times on games the host is not playing that game, and nobody can boot the "disconectee". So your not doing anything to get leavers gone, just giving them a reputation they already know they have.

[Corpser]

Um that's sorta unfair as leaving helps your mana and health regen although it's good for the ones that leave before dying I don't like the idea tho.

[pretticlan]

when lower lvl twinks have a fair 1v1 fight, they leave for full mana and hp. doesnt make sense to add those if u think about twinks

[StompArtist]

Disconnect stats is better that way honest but "bad (dies a lot)" PvP players are not confused. It would be sad for a weak PvP player (like me lol) to be confused with someone who just runs away to prevent deaths. It would be unfair to punish the honest player who takes his great many deaths "like a man" because of people disconnecting a lot.

[TwinkTastical]

Dies so it affects leaders.. cmon..

[TwinkTastical]

Scratch that, i suggest a death AND perma ban.

[BlasterBird]

Scratch that, i suggest a death AND perma ban.

Maybe a hair too far, but would solve the problem ;)

[Kiberian]

How about they cannot rejoin the same game and the disconnects stat is shown as a percentage of the games where the player has left or disconnected while in combat. This way you have an accurate idea of how smooth your game will be.

[Conradin]

Every time they leave, they get a chuck Norris face kick=instant death

[asommers]

Thanks for all the feedback! I went ahead and just added a death if you leave in combat. This was all done server-side so we don't have to wait for 1.7 and should be in Friday's content update.

We can always refine it with subsequent feedback.

-ALS

[Hekpoc]

I say disconnect... I hardly ever see anyone having such bad lag that they have to disconnect 10 times a game and those players that do disconnect often will be easily spotted.

[Barbamitsos]

i'm about to start some pvp system changes for 1.7. Nothing major, but i'd like to get your feedback on what is fair when players leave in the middle of combat.

I can:
1) grant them a death
2) don't let them rejoin that game
3) add a disconnect stat and increment that. So, kills/deaths/disconnects would be shown on their avatar page and the leaderboard

a player would be considered in combat if the game is not finished, and they have dealt or taken damage within the last 10 seconds.

-als

ps. In the future, we would only count kills/deaths for spacetime-hosted games, where you can't boot, games are "full", we have a queuing system, etc.

please make these mesures reality!

[regie831]

Thanks for all the feedback! I went ahead and just added a death if you leave in combat. This was all done server-side so we don't have to wait for 1.7 and should be in Friday's content update.

We can always refine it with subsequent feedback.

-ALS

sweet, friday what a perfect day to release an update...well I guess all those pvp leavers are screwed.

[sneadles]

This is simple.

Don't allow players to "leave" in combat. While player is in combat they are unable to leave the game. This being said if a player is lagging out, their avatar should stay in game until they are out of combat. Leaving combat is done by either their death or not attacking for 10 seconds they can then have their character moved.

Display a counter while in combat of how much time is left if they decide to leave while in combat. Their character is unable to perform any actions while this countdown is going on unless they decide to cancel leaving the battle.

[KingFu]

How about all of the above?!?!?

[Ajeje]

Grant them a death
Bye,
Ajeje

[Icicle Wind]

Finally, a great idea Mystical

[Xxkrazyredxx]

I think it will be goid if u add assist, I just recently play pvp now and I get my kills jacked lol, maybe add a new assist leader board to?

[DontNerfMeBro]

How taxing would it be to the servers to keep all players who exit a game during combat as ACTIVE participants for 10 seconds after they log? If they log out when they're dead, so be it. If they die while they're within the timer, so be it. This would also serve to inhibit players from "bailing" out on their comrades mid-mission because things aren't going smoothly for them.

I believe it's much less effective to develop a system of penalties to punish rogue players than it would be to correct the exploitive mechanic in the first place.

[hollen]

I think just a disconnect stat would suffice

[Jespo]

@dontnerfmebro do you do graffiti? Your sig seems like that's what your saying

[DontNerfMeBro]

@dontnerfmebro do you do graffiti? Your sig seems like that's what your saying

I don't. but I know a bear that does.

[WhoIsThis]

This is simple.

Don't allow players to "leave" in combat. While player is in combat they are unable to leave the game. This being said if a player is lagging out, their avatar should stay in game until they are out of combat. Leaving combat is done by either their death or not attacking for 10 seconds they can then have their character moved.

Display a counter while in combat of how much time is left if they decide to leave while in combat. Their character is unable to perform any actions while this countdown is going on unless they decide to cancel leaving the battle.

+1

This is by far the best option. It gives anyone enough time to get a kill that the attacker(s) would have gotten and the death that said player deserves. Death doesn't give the attacker that option.

As for ban ... that's too harsh. There may be legit reasons for leaving in battle - I know for example that my friend likes to cook. As soon as something boils, he drops his phone and runs to the oven. Death - acceptable as he would die anyways. Ban; way to harsh and a lot of people who don't deserve it would get banned.


Also, how does a player know if they are in combat? Should there be something like that exclamation mark when you're in a zone too low to level flashing? That way a player constantly knows.

[Zealous]

Grant as a death.

[Pwnage502]

PvP will be a hella lot easier once pocket legends is on computer. Come on STS, release that so we can PvP without lag!

[Apocolypze]

The last post was from February. How far did u go back to find this and why?!?!?

[mejslll]

some fine lines here... grant the death and credit the attacking play wiht a kill. as for 5 seconds or 10 seconds - often i annnounce im leaveaing most do, and i will get in one last fight then leave asap (i have 4 young kids and some time just have to leave on a moments notice...) so i wouldnt like to have to stay and make up that grace period, plus if i was pounding a rusher, or spawn killer i would make my point and leave after the kill, i wouldnt want him to respawn and have time to initiate combat again...


also, pls pls make it so that the other team can not access where we spawn, you would have to also make it so that a person holding a flag couldnt enter in to there own "spawn area" with a flag...

AC

[Appleisaac]

Sometimes I leave and it says I left during combat because the game wasn't FFA and a Mage hit me with a fire blast or something :-/ I think the other people in the game should vote if I "left during combat" or was just caught in crossfire between to angry mages.

[Fao]

I say don't let them rejoin, giving a death would make people mad if they lagged out or had to leave right away.

[Zeosar]

hi
I have lvl 50 dex avian with full mystery set. I find it impossible to kill people at level 55 and I seem to two shots kill poeple from levels 45. I find this very unfair, some 50 can just join games with levels 45 and kill everyone and they can't do anything about it.

[Imsebastiaanl]

Give them a death and ban them from playing pvp for a day :) be harsh
Of course not, sometimes people gtg. Also, if I wait for 10 secs sometimes, its in combat too. The last week it changed :)