S&S's arcane ability (pvp)

[Bless]

---- Problems ----
1. The proc is undodgable. There is no way to dodge it.

2. The Shady & Surge arcane ability is very potent because it's DOT ticks are very fast, much faster than any dot aoe effects (inc. mythic bow proc).

3. The size of the circles is way too large. The CtF room hallways are smaller than the circles, so the DoT is unavoidable.

4. The DoTs (purple circle) can overlap, this is extremely overpowered in pvp as the DoTs of one circle can do around 6k damage every 10 seconds. Imagine five shady and surges DoTs, warriors will die in under 2 seconds.

5. It simply wipes teams out in the popular 5v5 clashes. When fighting a full geared team with arcane rings + 2 S&S, with equal gear on our side but without the Shady&Surge, we were being annihilated by the DoT plus the teams net damage output.

---- Suggestions ----

1. Make the circle DoTs moderately slower, around the same speed as the DoT from the mythic bow proc (1.5-2seconds). The diameter of the circle should be smaller, after all it only makes sense since there are like 3 DoT circles per AA.

2. The DoTs of the purple circles should not overlap (the green cirlce heals can overlap though). The overlapping DoT of 2 shady and surge can kill a tank in around 6 seconds currently which is quite stupid to be honest because it makes pvp more pet (or arcane) reliant.


The DoT of the purple cirlces should be exactly like the Elondrian Bush proc imo, whilst the green circles should be healing around 400 hp per second. This makes it less OP and actually gives the opposition a chance to attack.

Of course there will be controversy and heated debates against nerfs since people pay 60m+ for these but irregardless, the pet is just simply way too op in pvp even for an arcane rarity. I realise this is quite early to make huge conclusions but the pet has to be fixed/nerfed in the early release.

[SacredKnight]

And here I was thinking about PvP'ing at endgame level again.....

[Skaunared]

I'll just leave the room when i see someone walking around with an SnS. Too OP, no fun for normal guys like me!

[Serancha]

So virtually all the people who won already had arcane rings, and now have a(nother) ridiculously op pet. Basically pvp is a waste of time for anyone else now. To clarify, I'm not whining about rich player / poor player stuff, but am observing that it seems sts is purposely turning the heavy platters into virtual godzillas.

My question is, what's the point? When everything is that insanely easy that they can wipe everyone else out with a single push of an AA button, why bother even playing? That kind of insane op-ness is going to get boring super fast and then those players are going to be gone to find a challenge in another game. Wouldn't it be better to have a super cool pet, but one that doesn't wipe out every other player with a single click? I mean really, at this point there's no sport left.

Just an observation.

[keikali]

Because your selling one and a nerf would affect your profits?

My guildie is selling it, not me. And unless you've seen it in action, don't offer an opinion on it. I've seen it and it is well worth the price people are asking for it. Especially for a limited pet.

[Skaunared]

If this is as intended then so be it, people will leave the room when they see a pet that can wipeout an entire team with just one tap, that would also mean no fun for the pet owner, don't u think?

[Spell]

---- Problems ----
1. The proc is undodgable. There is no way to dodge it.

2. The Shady & Surge arcane ability is very potent because it's DOT ticks are very fast, much faster than any dot aoe effects (inc. mythic bow proc).

3. The size of the circles is way too large. The CtF room hallways are smaller than the circles, so the DoT is unavoidable.

4. The DoTs (purple circle) can overlap, this is extremely overpowered in pvp as the DoTs of one circle can do around 6k damage every 10 seconds. Imagine five shady and surges DoTs, warriors will die in under 2 seconds.

5. It simply wipes teams out in the popular 5v5 clashes. When fighting a full geared team with arcane rings + 2 S&S, with equal gear on our side but without the Shady&Surge, we were being annihilated by the DoT plus the teams net damage output.

---- Suggestions ----

1. Make the circle DoTs moderately slower, around the same speed as the DoT from the mythic bow proc (1.5-2seconds). The diameter of the circle should be smaller, after all it only makes sense since there are like 3 DoT circles per AA.

2. The DoTs of the purple circles should not overlap (the green cirlce heals can overlap though). The overlapping DoT of 2 shady and surge can kill a tank in around 6 seconds currently which is quite stupid to be honest because it makes pvp more pet (or arcane) reliant.


The DoT of the purple cirlces should be exactly like the Elondrian Bush proc imo, whilst the green circles should be healing around 400 hp per second. This makes it less OP and actually gives the opposition a chance to attack.

Of course there will be controversy and heated debates against nerfs since people pay 60m+ for these but irregardless, the pet is just simply way too op in pvp even for an arcane rarity. I realise this is quite early to make huge conclusions but the pet has to be fixed/nerfed in the early release.

Pet is perfect how it is.NO nerfs are needed IMHO.if sts nerfs our hard earned pet,what would have been the point ?? If nerfed I hope Sts is also willing to re-egg the pet.it was a LB exclusive and OP for a reason as remiem said in her video =)

U don't need to worry about being killed by S&S AA as it doesn't give u deaths or kill inpvp. Ooh maybe they should fix it before u suggest Nerfing it

BTW do u have the pet or are u just complaining its op ? If u had the pet I'm 100% sure this thread would never been made. Just my opinion tho =p

[Filthyness]

just saying if you have an arcane ring + shady and surge you are over powered but , you deserve this power , to acquire these items and pets ( maxed out gear ) , you need to devote way too much time and effort , and quite frankly , if you are just a little bit more powerful than people without those items , its not worth it .

[Atten]

Pet is perfect how it is.NO nerfs are needed IMHO.if sts nerfs our hard earned pet,what would have been the point ?? If nerfed I hope Sts is also willing to re-egg the pet.it was a LB exclusive and OP for a reason as remiem said in her video =)

U don't need to worry about being killed by S&S AA as it doesn't give u deaths or kill inpvp. Ooh maybe they should fix it before u suggest Nerfing it

BTW do u have the pet or are u just complaining its op ? If u had the pet I'm 100% sure this thread would never been made. Just my opinion tho =p
Bless has just let us know.. Others have no right of telling him what to do, whether he has the pet or not, creating the thread or not..

[Zeus]

So virtually all the people who won already had arcane rings, and now have a(nother) ridiculously op pet. Basically pvp is a waste of time for anyone else now. To clarify, I'm not whining about rich player / poor player stuff, but am observing that it seems sts is purposely turning the heavy platters into virtual godzillas.

My question is, what's the point? When everything is that insanely easy that they can wipe everyone else out with a single push of an AA button, why bother even playing? That kind of insane op-ness is going to get boring super fast and then those players are going to be gone to find a challenge in another game. Wouldn't it be better to have a super cool pet, but one that doesn't wipe out every other player with a single click? I mean really, at this point there's no sport left.

Just an observation.

It's strong in clashes but weaker in 1v1 than Samael. So, it has its tradeoffs. It's not overpowered in every category & makes compromises. Therefore, it should not be nerfed.

[Serancha]

Sure it's perfect like it is. So's the arcane ring. How many arcane ring owners have quit the game because there is no challenge left and they're bored? As someone else said, it's not going to be much fun when everyone else leaves the minute you show up with your S&S. It's just narrowing down the field so the op fight the op and the majority of the players go play another room where they have a chance.

That's fine, but personally I can't see how it would be interesting pvping with the same 30 people all the time because nobody is interested in being wiped out with no opportunity to fight.. But then I also sit out when a match is uneven and won't gang people, so I'm obviously a weirdo. :) I don't care if it's nerfed or not, we'll adapt either way. Just think it's not so good for business.

[Zeus]

Sure it's perfect like it is. So's the arcane ring. How many arcane ring owners have quit the game because there is no challenge left and they're bored? As someone else said, it's not going to be much fun when everyone else leaves the minute you show up with your S&S. It's just narrowing down the field so the op fight the op and the majority of the players go play another room where they have a chance.

That's fine, but personally I can't see how it would be interesting pvping with the same 30 people all the time because nobody is interested in being wiped out with no opportunity to fight.. But then I also sit out when a match is uneven and won't gang people, so I'm obviously a weirdo. :) I don't care if it's nerfed or not, we'll adapt either way. Just think it's not so good for business.

I get your point about gear in general being too powerful & I agree with it. However, that is not what this thread is about. That issue alone is only up to STG to fix which I do not think they will because so far, it's a good short term business plan. So, I'll just enjoy the short term business plan as well. When I get bored, I'll find a new game to play.

Also, to elaborate...it's only overpowered in clashes where the health/damage pools can be effective. In every other aspect including TDM, PvE, Elites...it is not overpowered compared to the other arcane pets.

[keikali]

I get your point about gear in general being too powerful. However, that is not what this thread is about. That issue alone is only up to STG to fix which I do not think they will because so far, it's a good short term business plan.

Also, to elaborate...it's only overpowered in clashes where the health/damage pools can be effective. In every other aspect including TDM, PvE, Elites...it is not overpowered compared to the other arcane pets.

This. The pools are immovable unless you move around and hit the AA. In the cramped hallways of CTF this is where it shines. However in other places like PvE or TDM where there are open spaces, this pet isn't as OP as you think.

[firechandra]

A solution not involving Shady and Surge nerf could be create different pvp rooms one with items and pet allowed till legendary, one till mythic and one till arcane to make pvp games more balanced or to create tier rooms and you can go up in tiers or down based on the difference kills-deaths

[Zeus]

Really funny to see how the Shady owners say "its not op", "its working as intented", "no need to nerf" -> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL !!!

A pet that takes out a full myth mage in a few seconds with JUST its AA Dot and a range around the globe IS NOT OP? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

I tell all you Shady owners/ STS : YOU WILL RUIN PVP WITH THIS PET !!! The good thing if nothing will be changed, ill finally quit all the pvp-drama or even better ILL QUIT THE WHOLE GAME... its just getting more frustrating when you think it cant get worse! But the imagination to play vs maxed geared rogues including new myth bow which procs 10 times a second + arcane ring + Shady = lol, ty NO!

edit: To say it cant get nerfed only because someone traded his arcane ring for the pet or paid 100m or more for this pet IS A JOKE TOO! Do you f.e. remember the glitched legendary rings which had far to high damage stats? How many players lost a lot of gold there? Its just YOUR FAULT when you spend SUCH AMOUNTS of GOLD!
STS will have the choice to a: nerf this obviously imba pet and keep pvp alive or b: just dont do anything to see all players quit pvp or even the game except the maxed out Shady players! ITS YOUR CHOICE! :D

You have a joystick, use them to walk around the pools. Nobody is telling you to walk into them, right? In a 1v1, Samael is much more lethal.

[Bless]

In a 1v1, Samael is much more lethal. Right, but CTF isn't a 1v1 room. 1v1s are not intended as part of the gameplay - which is why the room is so large. In a CTF game (or a 5v5 clash) the pools cover up the entire hallway and the dot does more damage than SSS - with less than half the cd.

The damage output of the purple circles is way too much, like you said you downed a stationary warrior in 10 seconds.



Pet is perfect how it is .NO nerfs are needed IMHO.if sts nerfs our hard earned pet,what would have been the point ?? If nerfed I hope Sts is also willing to re-egg the pet.it was a LB exclusive and OP for a reason as remiem said in her video =)

U don't need to worry about being killed by S&S AA as it doesn't give u deaths or kill inpvp. Ooh maybe they should fix it before u suggest Nerfing it

BTW do u have the pet or are u just complaining its op ? If u had the pet I'm 100% sure this thread would never been made. Just my opinion tho =p

I really don't care if you spent thousands of dollars to get onto the ursoth LB and get the pet.

Others have spent thousands of dollars (probably much more than the LB players) opening crates and trying to an arcane ring and all the new mythic weapons which probably total to twice the value of S&S - only to be killed by the AA of this pet.

People with S&S, take Zeus for example, also admit that it is OP in CTF.

I don't have it but I am being affected by it greatly in pvp. If I had the pet, of course I'd say its op. You want an example? I did the same thing about samael's terrify even though I was saving up for one and currently own one. I suggested that it's terrify should trigger a terrify immunity.


@Keikali, nobody was promised anything about the new pet. The only information about the pet that we got was its base stats and how much it heals per tick (as shown in the video by Remiem). Remiem mentioned that the stats were OP because it was a special reward. Nobody was promised an OP pet that could wipe out ~6k hp in ~10 seconds in pvp.

[MoloToha]

Of course, S&S's AA is quite OP, but the chance of getting at least one S&S in random PvP room is quite low, so I don't see any specific problems for an average player.

[Bless]

Of course, S&S's AA is quite OP, but the chance of getting at least one S&S in random PvP room is quite low, so I don't see any specific problems for an average player. I see what you are saying but I know a pvp guild that has 4+ players with shady and surges. And there are around 44 S&S in game.

Either way though, instead of running away from the problem, I suggest to fix it - i.e. By fixing the pet.

[MoloToha]

I see what you are saying but I know a pvp guild that has 4+ players with shady and surges. And there are around 44 S&S in game.

Either way though, instead of running away from the problem, I suggest to fix it - i.e. By fixing the pet.

Well, as a quick fix there may be limiting overall damage output of all S&S's in team to damage output of a single one (or two of them). Then, it will still be nice in 1v1 and not so OP in clashes. This is my instant thought, so it may be not the most optimal, but it should work.

[Bless]

I see what you are saying but I know a pvp guild that has 4+ players with shady and surges. And there are around 44 S&S in game.

Either way though, instead of running away from the problem, I suggest to fix it - i.e. By fixing the pet.

Well, as a quick fix there may be limiting overall damage output of all S&S's in team to damage output of a single one (or two of them). Then, it will still be nice in 1v1 and not so OP in clashes. This is my instant thought, so it may be not the most optimal, but it should work. So are you saying that the circles shouldnt overlap?



2. The DoTs of the purple circles should not overlap (the green cirlce heals can overlap though). The overlapping DoT of 2 shady and surge can kill a tank in around 6 seconds currently which is quite stupid to be honest because it makes pvp more pet (or arcane) reliant.



Also, I think there is a bug with the DoT/Heal circles because it inflicts damage/heals TWICE per tick instead of once per tick.

[warriorromio]

Aa...
Of same pets dose not stack..
So dmg of one poll will same...
Dosent metter how much s&s u r ussing in same time...
And still with right skills u can survive in front of s&s ussers ...
Just cant kill them without another arcane pet and arcane gears..
Because the s&s users are already fully arcane geared.

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk

[Bless]

Aa...
Of same pets dose not stack..
So dmg of one poll will same...
Dosent metter how much s&s u r ussing in same time...
And still with right skills u can survive in front of s&s ussers ...
Just cant kill them without another arcane pet and arcane gears..
Because the s&s users are already fully arcane geared.

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk It stacks

[Energizeric]

Wait until the next arcane pet that has Samael's banish ability that will work in PvP too! I'm waiting for that pet. :)

I'll banish your whole team in one button press!

[Xeusx]

Wait until the next arcane pet that has Samael's banish ability that will work in PvP too! I'm waiting for that pet. :)

I'll banish your whole team in one button press!
how? ._.

[SacredKnight]

how? ._.

Well see, when a pet has the banishment ability that works in PvP using its AA will activated said ability and kill your team if they are in range :)

[Xeusx]

Well see, when a pet has the banishment ability that works in PvP using its AA will activated said ability and kill your team if they are in range :)
But the banishment cant kill the enemy team ._.
So how banishment can kill enemy team? LOL!

[Zeus]

1. It is only OP is the pools stack. If you stand in just one pool, your HoT keeps up with the DoT damage.

2. It is only OP in areas with minimal space because pools get the chance to stack.

3. It only does 6k damage in 10 seconds if every single pool sticks which the chances of that happening are very very slight. If it does happen, simply don't go into the pool. Common sense, right? With the pools stacked, there's much more area for you to maneuver around it.

4. It is only better than Samael in CTF. In all other categories including TDM and Elites, Samael is much better. Does that mean that Samael should be nerfed too? Sorry, but there should be versatility. One pet should not dominate every area of the game. SnS is not that pet - it only shines in certain areas of the game which is why it has the sticker price that it does.

People should accept that Samael cannot be the best pet in every single category. It is still a very formidable pet and can easily compete, if not best SnS. So, please stop exaggerating the level of OPness the pet has and get it nerfed. It's powerful in ONE area of the game, ONE! In every other aspect, it is weaker when compared to Samael.

[Soundlesskill]

I don't think the patches should overlap in damage/healing, but otherwise the pet seems okay.

[Zeus]

I don't think the patches should overlap in damage/healing, but otherwise the pet seems okay.

That's really the only strength of the pet. If you nerf that, Samael is better in every category as multiple Samael's AA will keep you on your feet.

Honestly, it is a COUNTER to Samael's AA. Yes, when standing still and standing in stacked pools, players will be wiped quickly but when you take into account the healing AA of Sam along with heals from other classes, it really is just an AA that negates that rapid healing through the use of damage pools.

[Soundlesskill]

That's really the only strength of the pet. If you nerf that, Samael is better in every category as multiple Samael's AA will keep you on your feet.

How many patches spawn on activating?

[Zeus]

How many patches spawn on activating?

8, I think? 4 healing, 4 damage. Or maybe it's 3 of each? Either way, it's rare to have more than 2 stack which is why this is really just an exaggeration by players.

It is potent in CTF? Yes. However, overall, it is not an OP pet. It is just stronger than Samael in a clash scenario which players cannot seem to accept.

Also, players that are trying to get it nerfed fail to mention that the more the pools stack, the more maneuverability they get. So, as I said before...joystick exists for a reason. Our characters are not NPCs. Simply move around the pool, right?

[Soundlesskill]

On a serious note tho.

From what I hear about the pet, it does not have a stun, so it will never force you to remain inside of the patches. Why don't you just.. Like move?

[Zeus]

On a serious note tho.

From what I hear about the pet, it does not have a stun, so it will never force you to remain inside of the patches. Why don't you just.. Like move?

Yep, no stun. However, people like charging through the pools. There's always the option to move unless you're stunned. :)

[Seoratrek]

As a reminder for everyone, please keep the discussion civil and on-topic. Thanks!

[Luckygirls]

Good pet,,,if not over power,,better use samael,,cheap,,than wasting money for crap,,, haha
Good job sts ;)

[SacredKnight]

But the banishment cant kill the enemy team ._.
So how banishment can kill enemy team? LOL!

We are speaking hypothetically about a new pet whom has a similar banishment ability which works in PvP.

[Robhawk]

3. It only does 6k damage in 10 seconds if every single pool sticks which the chances of that happening are very very slight. If it does happen, simply don't go into the pool. Common sense, right? With the pools stacked, there's much more area for you to maneuver around it.


How can 6k damage in 10 seconds not be op? This is ridicolous... An avarage mage has around 3,5k health without shield and LESS than 6k health with activated shield.
So 1on1 vs a Shady rogue = gg after 4 seconds and you only last 4 seconds because your shield protects you 2 seconds, lmao! HF! Moving around the circles is no option because the mage is to slow, we dont have a shadow piercer to beam somewhere else and we cant waste a skill slot for gale force because it just scks!

[Zeus]

How can 6k damage in 10 seconds not be op? This is ridicolous... An avarage mage has around 3,5k health without shield and LESS than 6k health with activated shield.
So 1on1 vs a Shady rogue = gg after 4 seconds and you only last 4 seconds because your shield protects you 2 seconds, lmao! HF! Moving around the circles is no option because the mage is to slow, we dont have a shadow piercer to beam somewhere else and we cant waste a skill slot for gale force because it just scks!

It won't do 6k damage if it doesn't stack which it won't in a 1v1 area. One pool will only take out about 2k health & that's if you stand in it from start to finish.

You have a joystick, use it to avoid the pools. They are immovable, you are movable. I don't see the big deal, sorry.

[Ravager]

How many patches spawn on activating?

8, I think? 4 healing, 4 damage. Or maybe it's 3 of each? Either way, it's rare to have more than 2 stack which is why this is really just an exaggeration by players.

It is potent in CTF? Yes. However, overall, it is not an OP pet. It is just stronger than Samael in a clash scenario which players cannot seem to accept.

Also, players that are trying to get it nerfed fail to mention that the more the pools stack, the more maneuverability they get. So, as I said before...joystick exists for a reason. Our characters are not NPCs. Simply move around the pool, right?

Without checking, I think its 3 of each. The damage pools everyone just gracefully walks away. The life pools are excellent.

[Ninjasmurf]

1. It is only OP is the pools stack. If you stand in just one pool, your HoT keeps up with the DoT damage.

2. It is only OP in areas with minimal space because pools get the chance to stack.

3. It only does 6k damage in 10 seconds if every single pool sticks which the chances of that happening are very very slight. If it does happen, simply don't go into the pool. Common sense, right? With the pools stacked, there's much more area for you to maneuver around it.

4. It is only better than Samael in CTF. In all other categories including TDM and Elites, Samael is much better. Does that mean that Samael should be nerfed too? Sorry, but there should be versatility. One pet should not dominate every area of the game. SnS is not that pet - it only shines in certain areas of the game which is why it has the sticker price that it does.

People should accept that Samael cannot be the best pet in every single category. It is still a very formidable pet and can easily compete, if not best SnS. So, please stop exaggerating the level of OPness the pet has and get it nerfed. It's powerful in ONE area of the game, ONE! In every other aspect, it is weaker when compared to Samael.

I agree with Zeus on this but your forgetting one thing.Shady and surge is only available to people that won it or payed over 100mil.

The reason why shady is so op is because there's only 44 of them in the game. If there were only 44 samaels in the game it would be a problem right?

Samael shouldn't be the best pet forever but at least replace it with something that's available to everyone so we can all win in pvp.

If your guild has no shady pets it's almost impossible to win a clash against 5 of them. Again making the rich players op compared to average players.

Now I see why this pet is selling for so much. It makes the rich immortal. If I join pvp and see more than 3 shadys enemy I'm leaving.

Unfortunately it's too late to nerf because people have already hatched them but maybe add them to locked crates of elondria when the ursoth event returns.

Also buff the other arcane pets next season because dovabear is crazy .
Hammerjaw should be able to compete with the other pets.

I hope sts reads this thread and makes some changes :)

[Madnex]

Just how many times we have to go over why older mythic/arcane pets won't be buffed? If your season-one mythic pet could compete with season-five new mythic pet, who would even bother paying for that then? Requesting buffing those is plain selfish.



As for the topic's subject, the new pet is fine as it is; like mentioned above CTF clashes is probably the one and only scenario that SnS is better than Samael. I think we all agree the Samael has overstayed its welcome being the overall best arcane pet for much longer than it should have -- and it still is, for 90% of the game -- so taking away the sole advantage SnS has just because people have not yet adjusted to dealing with it in a specific situation is plain absurd.

[Skaunared]

It will not be that easy to walk away from the AA in a CTF clash, considering that other players in the same team can use Panic, Stun AA in sync with the S&S AA. The Enemy Team will be just like fish, swimming in boiling water! XD

[Ninjasmurf]

Just how many times we have to go over why older mythic/arcane pets won't be buffed? If your season-one mythic pet could compete with season-five new mythic pet, who would even bother paying for that then? Requesting buffing those is plain selfish.



As for the topic's subject, the new pet is fine as it is; like mentioned above CTF clashes is probably the one and only scenario that SnS is better than Samael. I think we all agree the Samael has overstayed its welcome being the overall best arcane pet for much longer than it should have -- and it still is, for 90% of the game -- so taking away the sole advantage SnS has just because people have not yet adjusted to dealing with it in a specific situation is plain absurd.

If old ARCANE pets aren't buffed they will eventually become useless like the arcane hooks. Do you think it's ok for STS to discontinue pets like Samael in the future?

[Bless]

1. It is only OP is the pools stack. If you stand in just one pool, your HoT keeps up with the DoT damage. No it doesn't. One pool does 250 dmg per 0.5 seconds - so thats approx 500 dmg per second. And there are chances of having 1+ SnS's in a CTF game so its easy for the pools to stack to do 1k damage per second easily..Aren't mages doomed? Are you forgetting that there are players in pvp? Rogues can do 3k crits and mages can 2 hit rogues. Now combine this with the 500dmg-per-second pools of SnS. The heals that warriors, mages and rogues do are intended to save them from players' shots - not a crazy OP dot.

2. It is only OP in areas with minimal space because pools get the chance to stack. Right, but smart people can make the pools stack with ease by using walls and corners so even in large spaces like tdm its not impossible.

3. It only does 6k damage in 10 seconds if every single pool sticks which the chances of that happening are very very slight. If it does happen, simply don't go into the pool. Common sense, right? With the pools stacked, there's much more area for you to maneuver around it. So when more than one or two SnS's are combined, it is a gg right? People can make this happen. I know a guild with 12 SnS, and one with 4.

4. It is only better than Samael in CTF. In all other categories including TDM and Elites, Samael is much better. Does that mean that Samael should be nerfed too? Sorry, but there should be versatility. One pet should not dominate every area of the game. SnS is not that pet - it only shines in certain areas of the game which is why it has the sticker price that it does. Well duh. Samael isn't intended as a saviour pet. Its only natural - like how Whimm is better than samael in pvp - every pet has their ups and downs.

I think you're exaggerating about the usefulness of the pet as being ONLY useful in CTF, thats incorrect. It has great base stats so that gives it an edge. It can be beast in Arena too because of the little combat space and the green pools would help.

People should accept that Samael cannot be the best pet in every single category. It is still a very formidable pet and can easily compete, if not best SnS. So, please stop exaggerating the level of OPness the pet has and get it nerfed. It's powerful in ONE area of the game, ONE! Hypocritical comment, eh?In every other aspect, it is weaker when compared to Samael. Nobody's comparing SnS to samael. Pvp isnt just about samael - ya know? There are people that own glacians, singes and whimm etc and they literally can't stand a chance in ANY situation. In bold.



8, I think? 4 healing, 4 damage. Or maybe it's 3 of each? Either way, it's rare to have more than 2 stack which is why this is really just an exaggeration by players. Its 4 of each.

And it isn't an exaggeration. The green pools heal 500 hp per second (250 per 0.5 seconds), and they last ~5 seconds which heals around 2500 hp. Thats >= a mage heal. Now this is appoximately a calculation for 1 pool only. Imagine 2-3 (out of 4) green pools stack? That's around 5k+ of health healed. Its not the stack we are concerned about, its the effect of that stack.

It is potent in CTF? Yes. When you said that 'yes', did you think how many people play ctf? Thousands a day...One SnS can be a game changer However, overall, it is not an OP pet. It is just stronger than Samael in a clash scenario which players cannot seem to accept. Which is the most popular mode of pvp nowadays.

Also, players that are trying to get it nerfed fail to mention that the more the pools stack, the more maneuverability they get. Gosh, you don't give some of the most important details...You can be pushed, pullled, stunned or rooted inside the pools so the maneuverability thing you are talking about, it's easier said than done.So, as I said before...joystick exists for a reason. Our characters are not NPCs. Simply move around the pool, right?

You are correct. I am trying to nerf it a little. But righteously because it is an OP pet. You underestimate it in tdm too, have you seen the range of the pools? And how many there are? 4 pools with atleast 4m range each. In a tdm situation it is wise to scatter the pools - so making the pet not stand near any walls - I'm sure you knew that already? In pve I am not sure, but then again, samael isn't the best pet after pet spam got fixed. The pet is well comparable to any other top arcane pet and is in no way weak.

Heres input from an average pvp player with a new mythic bow: 98895

What would happen if 5 shady and surges were in pvp (ctf and tdm)? They simply would wreck the opposition. And that overlapping effect should be nerfed. Maybe limit the number of overlaps to 2, a fair compromise IMO.

[Haligali]

It will not be that easy to walk away from the AA in a CTF clash, considering that other players in the same team can use Panic, Stun AA in sync with the S&S AA. The Enemy Team will be just like fish, swimming in boiling water! XD

Thats a big difference, so can wipe out someone if the pools overlapping And been stunned or terrified .. while samael alone is deadly, s&s need stun or panic from somewhere else. I think this thread is a bit overreacted, the new mythic gun proc is way more a game changer(thanks sts), havent seen anyone complaining about it.

[Madnex]

If old ARCANE pets aren't buffed they will eventually become useless like the arcane hooks. Do you think it's ok for STS to discontinue pets like Samael in the future?
Circle of life? You can't expect to have the best items for six seasons without spending a cent after the initial purchase. Samael is an exception since he was made way too OP to begin with and now that he was finally bested at one area of the game and one alone, people complain!

If they were to bring out a pet that can outperform Samael more notably then I don't see why he should not be discontinued or stop dropping from locked chests like hooks were. Highly unlikely though, since the pets have no level restrictions.

[Ninjasmurf]

Circle of life? You can't expect to have the best items for six seasons without spending a cent after the initial purchase. Samael is an exception since he was made way too OP to begin with and now that he was finally bested at one area of the game and one alone, people complain!

If they were to bring out a pet that can outperform Samael more notably then I don't see why he should not be discontinued or stop dropping from locked chests like hooks were. Highly unlikely though, since the pets have no level restrictions.

You misunderstood.. I'm not saying that samael should be buffed to be better than shady and surge. I'm saying that if the old arcane pets like hammerjaw, and glacian don't get a buff next season I won't consider them arcanes anymore. We've already seen how a legendary pet (dovabear) can compare to an arcane.

Does it make sense for a pet to cost over 100mil? This clearly shows how over powered shady is compared to hammerjaw which is 5mil. If they're both arcane why should
1 shady and surge = 20 hammerjaws?

This game is starting to get impossible for non-plat buyers. Just when I got the best gear this pet came out and now I'll get farmed in pvp again :(
Looks like I'll have to merch for another 2 seasons and be bored again until I can afford shady...
To be able to compete in endgame pvp you need 200mil+ now? Maybe sts should change the maximum gold to 100billion. I'll stop raging here and hope that changes are made :)

[Skaunared]

Thats a big difference, so can wipe out someone if the pools overlapping And been stunned or terrified .. while samael alone is deadly, s&s need stun or panic from somewhere else. I think this thread is a bit overreacted, the new mythic gun proc is way more a game changer(thanks sts), havent seen anyone complaining about it.

Samael's AA alone isn't deadly, it needs damage from somewhere else too (player skills). S&S AA is the gamechanger now as it does a huge amount of damage that can wipe out a poor mage or rogue, and make a warrior's hp down to 30%. No other pet AA can deal even half that damage.

And also about the gun, no one complains that it is OP because it is a PROC. It is only by chance, it doesn't happen 100% of the time. The gun is good but not too overpowered! If the gun's proc is like "chance to proc a poison pool that deals 500 dmg per sec for 10 secs" then that's what I call op.

Back to topic, in my opinion, I think the DoT of S&S should be reduced by 20-30% in pvp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

In bold.




You are correct. I am trying to nerf it a little. But righteously because it is an OP pet. You underestimate it in tdm too, have you seen the range of the pools? And how many there are? 4 pools with atleast 4m range each. In a tdm situation it is wise to scatter the pools - so making the pet not stand near any walls - I'm sure you knew that already? In pve I am not sure, but then again, samael isn't the best pet after pet spam got fixed. The pet is well comparable to any other top arcane pet and is in no way weak.

Heres input from an average pvp player with a new mythic bow: 98895

What would happen if 5 shady and surges were in pvp (ctf and tdm)? They simply would wreck the opposition. And that overlapping effect should be nerfed. Maybe limit the number of overlaps to 2, a fair compromise IMO.

First off, it does not do 250 damage every .5 seconds, it is more like 200 damage. Secondly, as I stated before...you can avoid the pools. Who is telling you to walk through the pools other than yourself, Bless?

Secondly, if the pools stack, that gives more area that they DID NOT cover. Therefore, you have even more maneuverability to just step aside from the pool. Also, if a pool lands on top of you & you are standing still, it will not do damage so please do not give the argument that you can be stunned and then covered with a pool.

Thirdly, what about Samaels? If you stack Samaels, it's GG as well with the constant panics. I for one enjoy the variety in PvP.

Fourthly, Whim is not better than Samael in PvP. At most, they are considered equal in PvE. It all depends on your play style. Personally, I prefer to have constant armor reduction so I utilize whims. Samael is still hands down best pet to use in almost any category.

It gives great stats at what cost? We do not get the mana regeneration of Samael nor do we get the stun. It's like you are completely ignoring the checks and balances developers have already logically laid out.

Lastly, if pool lands on top of you and you are standing still/stunned, it will not do any damage to you. So, any other time that you are in the pool means that you either walked or were pushed into it. If you were pushed into it, can you not walk out? Learn pool radius and take precautions. What's the point of having an AA that poofs fairy dust?

[Remiem]

Thank you for the feedback, guys. I've passed it along to the devs to review and we'll make announcements if we plan to make any changes to Shady & Surge. Closing this one up now before it gets further out of hand.