Shadow Cave Update - Questions & Concerns for Devs

[Ravenous]

Please let me preface this by stating that this thread is for serious questions and answers and is NOT a thread to cry and whine like a little kid. If you want to whine, please take it elsewhere and do not post in this thread.

First, I love the new content but I am very against some of the business choices that were made. This thread is simply to get some answers to understand the motivation for these decisions.

We are all aware that the recent update has caused a tremendous disrupt in the PL economy and while some of you may not care about this, it does affect you.

There are simply too many pink drops and to make matters worse, they are the best Level 50 gear available. In a few days (or weeks) this current best gear is going to be nearly worthless in CS.

Devs, why have you made the best gear drop 100% of the time to flood the market? I am certain that you knew beforehand that this would flood the market and make all level 50 gear extremely cheap. Not to mention, level 50 players can now easily get the best gear and there is nothing to strive for. Why not make the best gear rare drops to keep prices in-tact and at least give players something to work towards (farming or saving enough money to buy this new elite gear)? You have already made it known that the players consume the game faster than you can create it. Why would you make the current end-game content so easy to obtain then? Why not make it something that takes time, to allow more content to be created?

I think if you would have done the above, the mixed reactions to this update would have been no longer mixed but extremely positive. I realize that you think that overall sentiment is positive (and it may be but I have not seen it) but it could have been entirely positive with the simple changes mentioned above.

There has to be some type of logical reasoning why you did this but I, and many others, cannot think of it. Could we please get an explanation?

With all of that said, I do not believe that you destroyed the game like some others have claimed. I think the bad things from this update can easily be fixed by raising level caps and doing things the right way which I briefly got into above. That would fix the economy and give something for the players to continue to strive for while waiting for further updates.

-Rav

[Oldgveteran]

Good post, I agree if we eat up the updates too quick why make it 1000x faster when to me ( a nonprogrammer ) it would seem that that kind of thing could be changed with a click of a few buttons or few code encryptions. I think that the update could have been a success and atleast kept people chewing on the stick in turn giving you as devs more time to create a the new expansion.. Just seems more logical all the way around. If I am wrong please fill us in on What the intensions of 100% drop rate. Thanks

[Echelong]

Well cinco answered yesterday on chat and said it was intentional and that the drop rates where good in his opinion. He also said on the forums to someone complaining about quitting that he would get them back to the game very soon.

Maybe they will give us 1.7 sooner than we thought. And this sets will be used for fast leveling or something bigger.

PS He was also teasing about a lvl 50 Vyxnaar on the shadow caves but that was a suggestion from us and he was going to think about it.

[Ravenous]

Well cinco answered yesterday on chat and said it was intentional and that the drop rates where good in his opinion. He also said on the forums to someone complaining about quitting that he would get them back to the game very soon.

I am absolutely certain that the drop rates were intentional. This is their livelihood and these decisions are not made without a lot of thought and debate. The problem is, that to an outsider, these decisions do not make logical sense and I think that is the reason that a lot of players are upset.

Thus far, they have provided us with no reasoning on WHY these choices were made which is what is important and if explained properly, could help in alleviating my (and many other players) concerns.

-Rav

[Ellyidol]

Gut feeling guess is that 1.7 is just around the corner. This move was to balance everyone before the new update is released, and to allow market prices to fall for a reason, since they were going to spiral down.

So a equal starting line before the new update "race" and a better reason for market prices to drop rather than just speculation. I could be dead wrong.

[Riccits]

i just wrote in another thread ;)
elite with 100% drop rate is only a preparation for all ppl to get easy equippment for playing the next dungeon. nothing hard, just to get the needed set...
may its wanted too that prices in cs fall a bit to help poor ppl.
i think new updates coming soon and we can expect to hunt rares for new awesome sets!

[Lesrider]

I don't think we'll get a clear answer. Or that the devs will confirm or deny any of these speculations. We've been at it for two days already, got two threads locked, some (very) vague hints and plenty of joking around in the chat box.
But no clear answer.

[Echelong]

He also said he saw the big picture. I am guessing an update very soon.

PS they are also trying to get more casuals in the game and more votes for the best app ever category. this is imo.

[Wysee]

+1000. Finally someone who doesn't think they "ruined the game, blah blah, QQ".
I honestly think this was just a tiny part in a major update, for example a level cap raise.

[Ravenous]

I don't think we'll get a clear answer. Or that the devs will confirm or deny any of these speculations. We've been at it for two days already, got two threads locked, some (very) vague hints and plenty of joking around in the chat box.
But no clear answer.

Yes, I am aware that there has been much discussion about this but the entire approach taken was wrong. Bashing the development team, whining and/or threatening to quit does not do anything constructive and is not the way to get answers and that is why we have not had any real answers to our questions.

I started this thread, rather than posting in another, was to start clean and provide an entirely constructive rather than destructive thread in hopes that the devs would give us a few more answers to alleviate many of our concerns.

-Rav

[StompArtist]

The new update made my phone explode and are responsible for my smoking habit. Too much complaining! lol

[ECHUSER]

when he said big picture i think he was talking about statistics of user activity. these stats prob showed that the majority of new users level to 50 and then quit b/c the best gear is hard to obtain and its not as fun playing w gear that doesnt offer as much. it also prob showed that the majority lvl 50's w the best equip keep returning. in order to get new lvl 50ers to not quit, they prob made the drop rate of shadow gear 100% in an attempt to retain customers. i dont know who will be doing cyber quest or farm for rift/cosmo/void anymore but i'm sure the devs have something in store for us.

i personally think the best gear should be the rarest and hardest to obtain (rift/cosmos/void). the second and third best gear should be cyber and shadow.

[Balgreta]

When you look at the big picture, you have to remember that there are many iOS players who had full rift/cosmos/void sets and extra sets to sell off for money before android client was even released.

Now with the influx of new players who probably don't have the same vast qty' of money available or armor as the old iOS people it would make sense from a balance point of things to equal the playing field for all players at 50 in-line for a new instance to come out - thus; you dont have one group of people (the older iOS) steamrolling new content and leveling up +5~/+10~ levels faster and the other group of people (android.... ?? PC ???) who have lesser pinks/purples and struggle or are disadvantaged.

If the fields wern't leveled then you would still have the disparity and some people would moan its too hard and others too easy; this imo is a way to resolve 2 (or even 3) birds with 1 stone

Normally, the way mmo's work, older players and better geared have an advantage over new ones and thats fine - just not in the case when a whole new platform is released the rules need to be changed somewhat.

[Refriedchicken]

Trust me, none of your questions will be answered by devs.

We had a 22 page discussion about this, eventually locked, after a dev telling us to quit, and that the update helped the overall health of the game.

We just have to let it be, take a break, discover other MMOs, I have faith that the devs will eventually fix this problem, and the next update might answer these questions.

[StompArtist]

Trust me, none of your questions will be answered by devs.

We had a 22 page discussion about this, eventually locked, after a dev telling us to quit, and that the update helped the overall health of the game.

We just have to let it be, take a break, discover other MMOs, I have faith that the devs will eventually fix this problem, and the next update might answer these questions.

It would be pretty funny if they came up with levels that requires rift sets to be equipped...

[Ravenous]

Now with the influx of new players who probably don't have the same vast qty' of money available or armor as the old iOS people it would make sense from a balance point of things to equal the playing field for all players at 50 in-line for a new instance to come out - thus; you dont have one group of people (the older iOS) steamrolling new content and leveling up +5~/+10~ levels faster and the other group of people (android.... ?? PC ???) who have lesser pinks/purples and struggle or are disadvantaged.

I disagree and hope that this was not the motivation behind their decision.

I only started playing PL about a month ago and already have a level 50 with the best gear and 1.5M gold to bank. This should prove that theory wrong.

-Rav

[fostina1]

i think only 1 level 50 should be allowed in each party. you selfish bunch of jerks. sorry, almost filled up my ignore list this morning. i know you want to kill fast, but if im not supposed to be there then i wouldnt be.

[StompArtist]

i think only 1 level 50 should be allowed in each party. you selfish bunch of jerks. sorry, almost filled up my ignore list this morning. i know you want to kill fast, but if im not supposed to be there then i wouldnt be.

What do you mean?

[Ravenous]

i think only 1 level 50 should be allowed in each party. you selfish bunch of jerks. sorry, almost filled up my ignore list this morning. i know you want to kill fast, but if im not supposed to be there then i wouldnt be.

Please do not derail my thread with something completely unrelated. (Others please ignore)

-Rav

[fostina1]

sorry i had several tabs open and replied to wrong one. the one i meant to reply to was closed. i apologize. (others do as you wish im not your boss)
-Onafasin

[Physiologic]

Ive been playing pl for about a month - same as you - and realized that unlike many mmorpgs, equal opportunity is an important aspect of this game. You can see the beginning of "equal practice" when the cyber equips came out. Everyone had a chance to get awesome gear through universal quests, and in This update, everyone also has a chance to get the best gear (100% pink drop rates).

[pretticlan]

i thot this was a thread for devs to answer. not us lol

[Echelong]

i thot this was a thread for devs to answer. not us lol

Devs have a secret and they don't wanna share yet.

[Snakespeare]

There is no game economy. There are ripoff artists and suckers. People who work for a living and only have an hour a day to play, the vast majority of us, do not want to be preyed on by these ripoff artists. Thank you devs for finally making it right.

[superglut2]

Lol i was complaining that i was quitting the game cause i lost 2 million at least witu the update. Then cinco replied so now everything kinda makes sense to me WHY the devs released this update with the 100% drop rate

[StompArtist]

There is no game economy. There are ripoff artists and suckers. People who work for a living and only have an hour a day to play, the vast majority of us, do not want to be preyed on by these ripoff artists. Thank you devs for finally making it right.

And here is the voice of the silent majority :D

[Refriedchicken]

i think only 1 level 50 should be allowed in each party. you selfish bunch of jerks. sorry, almost filled up my ignore list this morning. i know you want to kill fast, but if im not supposed to be there then i wouldnt be.

Dumbest thing I've ever heard.

The dungeon is meant for level 50s, not for level 32s to leach.

[pretticlan]

lol i still think they should have made this new gear CLOSE to the best gear, and still not the best. 100% drop rate ruins the purpose of BEST gear, since everyone will have it..

[Refriedchicken]

It's been said several times Pretti, btw, that was pretty funny in PvP today.

I was eating up this Bird on the other team, killed him a good 50+ times in about 8 games, everytime he died I said "sit down", and he would rage.

[pretticlan]

It's been said several times Pretti, btw, that was pretty funny in PvP today.

I was eating up this Bird on the other team, killed him a good 50+ times in about 8 games, everytime he died I said "sit down", and he would rage.

he was such a noob team player lol. pvping in 3v3 is team play, not run alone and get killed rofl.

[fostina1]

Dumbest thing I've ever heard.

The dungeon is meant for level 50s, not for level 32s to leach.

im sorry, i thought i was getting experience, whereas you lvl 50's are just getting a few nice pieces of worthless gear.

[pretticlan]

im sorry, i thought i was getting experience, whereas you lvl 50's are just getting a few nice pieces of worthless gear.

i didnt do a single run and i have all three sets... they r too cheap ;/

[Physiologic]

im sorry, i thought i was getting experience, whereas you lvl 50's are just getting a few nice pieces of worthless gear.

The point is, you have limited function and utility in the elite dungeon if you're not 50 with at least the cyber gear. You are in fact leeching and taking advantage of the so-called nice but worthless loot at the end.

[StompArtist]

im sorry, i thought i was getting experience, whereas you lvl 50's are just getting a few nice pieces of worthless gear.

Start your own game and quit whining! :D

[fostina1]

i didnt do a single run and i have all three sets... they r too cheap ;/

ya, after getting kicked out of several i just bought it also.

[pretticlan]

Start your own game and quit whining! :D

amen lolol

[fostina1]

The point is, you have limited function and utility in the elite dungeon if you're not 50 with at least the cyber gear. You are in fact leeching and taking advantage of the so-called nice but worthless loot at the end.

fact remains that i had twice the reason to be there than a lvl 50.

[Physiologic]

fact remains that i had twice the reason to be there than a lvl 50.

Make your own game, as the above posters suggested. Boot all the lv 50s and invite only everyone under 50. Good luck in the shadow caves.

[StompArtist]

Make your own game, as the above posters suggested. Boot all the lv 50s and invite only everyone under 50. Good luck in the shadow caves.

And you better accept my level 1 Bird who has 50 times the reasons to be there. lol

[pretticlan]

And you better accept my level 1 Bird who has 50 times the reasons to me there. lol

lol how bout a party with all lvl 1s. lol make a guild called suiciders lol

[Physiologic]

And you better accept my level 1 Bird who has 50 times the reasons to be there. lol

Yes...yes. like the game of limbo, the lower the better

[fostina1]

ive never kicked anybody, that is part of the fun as far as im concerned.

its better than "sleepwalking" through the levels. and thats a lvl 50's opinion.

but this elitism is probably the answer to the authors original question.

[pretticlan]

ive never kicked anybody, that is part of the fun as far as im concerned.

its better than "sleepwalking" through the levels. and thats a lvl 50's opinion.

but this elitism is probably the answer to the authors original question.

elitism is one of the reasons people play an mmorpg instead of regular rpg -0-

[StompArtist]

ive never kicked anybody, that is part of the fun as far as im concerned.

its better than "sleepwalking" through the levels. and thats a lvl 50's opinion.

but this elitism is probably the answer to the authors original question.

I choose to no longer reply to your posts in this thread. It is not elitism it is a personal choice based on the fact that you are currently not contributing but rather trying to generate a baseless debate for the sake of it and no constructive purpose at all. Thank you.

[Physiologic]

Elitism? I was talking about utility and efficiency in a run.

Think of it this way.

You're captain of your baseball team. You get to choose 8 other players for your team. Problem is, there's 9 people to choose from. 8 of them look healthy and able bodied, while the 9th one is in a wheel chair and has Parkinson's. But what you're saying is that mr. Wheelchair has more reasons to be there because he will get more out of it.

[Snakespeare]

ive never kicked anybody, that is part of the fun as far as im concerned.

its better than "sleepwalking" through the levels. and thats a lvl 50's opinion.

but this elitism is probably the answer to the authors original question.

You have hijacked the thread and now you are trolling. If you wish to discuss your leeching, start your own thread. If you want someone to "level" you, offer to pay someone. If you think your character, who can NOT do damage in a level 50 map, is doing anything other than taking up a space that rightfully belongs to someone else, you are gravely mistaken. All red threats produce 2x XP, and a level 32 has red threats in Swamps. Gear in Swamps can be used by a level 32 to 35. Gear in a level 50 can only be used by a level 50. If you refuse to spend $1.50 to buy Swamps and that is why you are a leech, you should expect only to be booted.

People who boot you are doing you a favor. They are trying to teach you something. Learn it. I guarantee you will boot others when you are a level 50. And I guarantee that you will quit after a few weeks. All leeches are quitters. It is too easy and they leave when they are bored. And stop calling people names.

[Echelong]

Elitism? I was talking about utility and efficiency in a run.

Think of it this way.

You're captain of your baseball team. You get to choose 8 other players for your team. Problem is, there's 9 people to choose from. 8 of them look healthy and able bodied, while the 9th one is in a wheel chair and has Parkinson's. But what you're saying is that mr. Wheelchair has more reasons to be there because he will get more out of it.

Well people will cheer more for the wheelchair guy lol. You started good but imo I don't like comparing people with disabilities. It would have been better with a unhealthy individual that has no idea how to play baseball. imo at least. nothing against you since I would boot any low levels from the caves.

[fostina1]

You have hijacked the thread and now you are trolling. If you wish to discuss your leeching, start your own thread. If you want someone to "level" you, offer to pay someone. If you think your character, who can NOT do damage in a level 50 map, is doing anything other than taking up a space that rightfully belongs to someone else, you are gravely mistaken. All red threats produce 2x XP, and a level 32 has red threats in Swamps. Gear in Swamps can be used by a level 32 to 35. Gear in a level 50 can only be used by a level 50. If you refuse to spend $1.50 to buy Swamps and that is why you are a leech, you should expect only to be booted.

People who boot you are doing you a favor. They are trying to teach you something. Learn it. I guarantee you will bott others when you are a level 50. And I guarantee that you will quit after a few weeks. All leeches are quitters. It is too easy and they leave when they are bored. And stop calling people names.

quit quoting me if you dont want an answer. i already apologized for hijacking the thread, it was an honest mistake that you would have realized if you had read the whole thing. i didnt call anyone a name except the people in my ignore list. so dont call me one either. (troll)


and my heal saved several lifes in the 1 level i was allowed to play through. you are correct that the people who boot me are doing me a favor however. thats people i will never have to deal with in game again.

my last post on this topic in this thread if you insist on replying to me then pm me.

[Physiologic]

I apologize for being brash. My job entails me to see disabled people every day of my life, so I am sort of jaded about talking about it in everyday conversation. Sorta like a coroner and dead people.

[Pandamoni]

I am absolutely certain that the drop rates were intentional. This is their livelihood and these decisions are not made without a lot of thought and debate. The problem is, that to an outsider, these decisions do not make logical sense and I think that is the reason that a lot of players are upset.

Thus far, they have provided us with no reasoning on WHY these choices were made which is what is important and if explained properly, could help in alleviating my (and many other players) concerns.

-Rav

When I read this the first thing I thought of was one of the hardest lessons I've learned as a parent. I don't always have to explain my decisions to my kid. Sometimes she just has to deal with the consequences of my actions and there is always a good reason for those actions.

Of course, we aren't the dev's kids and we don't have to "just deal" but when I read this I kind of had an "aha" moment where I think that is kind of what's going on here. They know this change is good. They have a reason why it's good but they don't have to tell us why. For some people this will be annoying and they'll bail. For others, they'll make the most of it while waiting for what's next.

[Pandamoni]

lol how bout a party with all lvl 1s. lol make a guild called suiciders lol

I wonder how long we would survive. That might be kind of fun. See who can make it more than 3 seconds.

[browndanielusn]

im sorry, i thought i was getting experience, whereas you lvl 50's are just getting a few nice pieces of worthless gear.

There are other maps to gain experience in where you can actually contribute to the party

[Ravenous]

There is no game economy. There are ripoff artists and suckers. People who work for a living and only have an hour a day to play, the vast majority of us, do not want to be preyed on by these ripoff artists. Thank you devs for finally making it right.

With all due respect, any time that there is a money supply and buying/selling then there is an economy. I think that the devs are aware of that ;)

-Rav

[Snakespeare]

With all due respect, any time that there is a money supply and buying/selling then there is an economy. I think that the devs are aware of that ;)

-Rav

I don't agree. An economy is a closed system, but the fake money in a perpetually expanding game is an open system.

And again, is this game for everyone, or just the few who can spend hours "farming" so they can gouge the prices on the rest of us?

[Oldgveteran]

I apologize for being brash. My job entails me to see disabled people every day of my life, so I am sort of jaded about talking about it in everyday conversation. Sorta like a coroner and dead people.

Bahahahahaha or like a gynecologist and... Nvm hahaha