Dex mage vs int mage? Feedback wanted

[WhoIsThis]

I've been seeing more and more people choose either melee mages or dex-mages. Right now, I've got two builds:

- A level 50 pure dex bird
- A level 30 pure int mage, which I am thinking about respecing

I've been noticing something - I really don't like being the mage that kind of stays back to heal, I prefer attacking at a distance (which was why my first character was bird). More than a few times, I have found myself unable to resist the instinct to aggro, which often had fatal results, because the mage's range is so short and kiting is not effective. I've been thinking, for maximum damage output to the enemy (in both PVE and PVP), is dex-mage better than int mage? Also, what is the best distribution of skills for dex mage?

I was in favour of going pure dex at one point for maximum damage, but now I'm thinking about putting more in int so that spells can recharge.

- Is there a penalty when you spellcast if you go pure dex? (ex: fireblast, lightning, drain life, etc., heal). Obviously more potions will be needed as mana recharge slows, but I would like to know damage output.
- How has damage output been (please answer if you have respeced from int mage or strength mage to dex mage)?
- What did you configure your skill set at level 50?

Thanks in advance.

[Zerious]

for pve, you'd want to review the dual dex/int mage and pure int:

pure int has compared to dex/int:
•more mana
•more potent spells (you heal more, and damaging spells hit harder)
•less base damage and dps
•less hit rate and crits (though the difference isn't to severe in pve, consider this in pvp)

The similarilties between the two:
•same armor used, so relatively same low armor
•high mana regen (review my H/s & M/s guide to see how the difference your stats affect regen rates)

You could also do (if this is what you were talking about to begin with) dex-geared dex/int mage or full dex mage:
•dex equips typically have higher base damage and dps
•dex armor is slightly more durable than int armor
•dex gear does NOT provide as much M/s (in some cases H/s as well) as int gear tends to.
•crits are more likey to occur when using dex weapons and gear.
•FULL DEX has very low regen and very low skill strength, but higher base damage and kiting ability in comparison to dex/int (using dex gear).



Now in accordance to your playstyle i recommend a dual mage (dex/int w/ dex gear). You say you like kiting and you want your skills to be more productive (or destructive o.o). This build sounds right for you. You have high dps for mage standards, and the extra int will allow your spells to be a bigger help in pvp. As far as pve goes, you are one of the most dangerous toons. Your damage output is spread for quick singular kills, while any mobs near are hit HARD (usually one good shot takes out the stragglers). Bosses may still be trouble if you don't kite them. The main downside is you're fragile. Low health with somewhat adequate armor means opposing birds could pose a threat, and dex bears are dangerous.

As far as level 50 configuration goes, I'm unsure and therefore will not waste your time guessing. Someone jump in pls :D

Zerious

[WhoIsThis]

Thanks for your detailed response.

Does having more int significantly increase the damage of your spells? I've tried respecing from pure int to pure dex just for the heck of it. According to the spells, damage output has not been adversely affected according to the damage numbers (they usually give a range), although I'm burning mana much more often. My use of mana potions has increased by about double. I'm going to experiment a bit and see.

The next question then becomes - what is the best dex to int ratio? There's pure dex or 180 dex/the rest (I think about 85 or so) int. That's good enough to use all the best dex gear.

Either way, I can see that this config is staying at the rear. If anything, it may even be more vulnerable than pure int. At least pure int had a good mana shield to fall back on. Although dex gear provides better protection, both the health and mana regen seem wanting.

[FluffNStuff]

The dex mage has kinda become less an option since 1.5 . Before that, Dex would add more to skill damage then int, but now Int is the clear winner. Combine that with the keepers staff and you are putting out some serious AOE damage. Another reason the Dex mage is less popular is Void used to have the most m/s, but that was also changed with 1.5.

[Ellyidol]

The only reason why I see someone going for a dex mage is to use the gun. For overall power, Int mages still top the charts. Survivability on both are low, but an int mage would be better when shielded / 2handed because of higher heal.

Right now, aside from shadow caves, you can afford to be the type that kills your enemy before they kill you.

[WhoIsThis]

Strange.

I have found no changes to my damage output when I do move like fire blast or lightning after switching. The ranges that they give are still about the same I still do about 125-150 damage (I'm level 36 pure dex, armed with a level 30 ice auto-crossbow).

Observations:
- I tend to be in the rear more often, so I die less
- I tend to get more drops - the crossbow does more damage and more effectively than any wand
- I think that I am levelling a bit faster than before
- Mana shield is an ineffective means of protection now (stay in rear)
- Health regen and mana regen are slower than before, although I stay in the rear.
- Before I would seldom use mana potions, save when mana shield depleted my mana; I use them more often now
- Health potion use, despite increased vulnerability is unchanged, as I stay in the rear, although I do sometimes charge into the middle, do fire blast, lightning, and ice blast, before quickly retreating (as I use to as a pure int)
- Overall, I think that I am making cash faster too, becuase of the increased drops that more than compensate for increased mana use

I think that overall, the tradeoff is generally worth it, even for the increased vulnerability.

To others: If you think that pure int is too vulnerable and you choose pally, you will not like dex-mage; otherwise, I'd advice giving it a shot. Damage output is noticeably better and you get more drops. You still have all of your abilities, and apart from mana shield, I've noticed little change, save that you will use about double as many mana potions now.

[Ellyidol]

Define "get more drops". Do you mean the character is "Luckier"? If so, then I don't think it matters what kind of mage you are :P

Expected, the dex mage has really way less mana regen. As a pure int mage, I don't think you have to even use mana pots if you aren't using Mana Shield.

[BlazeMystic]

I tried a dual spec int/str mage for a while as it seemed very popular, but I lately decided to try a hybrid st95/int158 mage. Quite good build really, improved survivability over pure int mage and damage from spells are also quite impressive and better than the dual spec mage.

[Ellyidol]

I tried a dual spec int/str mage for a while as it seemed very popular, but I lately decided to try a hybrid st95/int158 mage. Quite good build really, improved survivability over pure int mage and damage from spells are also quite impressive and better than the dual spec mage.

I'd go for that build too, if I wanted to stay as an int mage. But lately I've noticed, you can afford to go pure int if you know how to play and time your spells extremely well. There are some cases that I don't take HP damage at all or barely with the proper use of mana shield and timing of spells. Then again, if I do mess up, I go down pretty quick.

[WhoIsThis]

Define "get more drops". Do you mean the character is "Luckier"? If so, then I don't think it matters what kind of mage you are :P

As in, you receive more items randomly in PvE when killing low level enemies. I'm not too sure why that is myself. I think that its because the bow gets more kills than any wand.

[Ellyidol]

As in, you receive more items randomly in PvE when killing low level enemies. I'm not too sure why that is myself. I think that its because the bow gets more kills than any wand.

Ah. It shouldn't matter though. You kill it, he kills it, item still could go to anybody. Unless I've been GRAVELY misled all this time, that stands true I believe.

[WhoIsThis]

Ah. It shouldn't matter though. You kill it, he kills it, item still could go to anybody. Unless I've been GRAVELY misled all this time, that stands true I believe.

I believe that often, the person that fires the killing shot tends to get the item (try the lorekeeper and snipers and beserkers in victory lap for real examples). I think that there is an exception to that rule when one person does the majority of the damage, in which case they get the items.

I'm still trying to figure out who gets the drops when a barrel is blown up. I believe though that it is the person who approached the barrel's explosive proximity first or the person who manages to blow up a barrel and does damage - in which case, it's 50/50 from experience. Everyone though nearby gets some money when the barrel blows.

Actual "luck" of getting a good drop is completely random and therefore cannot be changed, except with that elixir (which I consider a waste).

But getting back onto topic - what is the best ratio of int to dex for a PVP dexchantress? I've been thinking about going pure dex with my elf - not too sure about it being the optimal balance though.

[Royce]

Omg people, drops are random. A mob dies, anyone in range has an equal chance at a drop. Also Dex mages are pretty poor now. One big factor that doesn't seem to have been mentioned here is AOE damage. Many Mage staffs do AOE damage, multiplying your damage significantly. Another factor is weapon procs. Dex weapons rarely have procs until level 50, and talons generally have no proc at all. Mage weapons have traditionally had the best procs in the game (though the top level 50 wands are sadly proc free). Anyway, nothing compares to a pure Int Mage for damage output.

[ProSophist]

It all depends on your playstyle.

My mage has been a dexchantress since I started playing PL. It has it's own pros and cons.
I find them to have better survivability vs Staff Mages, and almost on par all around damage vs Doll Mages.
But most of all, I chose to be a Dexchant since nobody wanted to play them before. Now PvP is plagued with them.

My best advice is NEVER to go pure dex if you want to build a Dexchant. You can figure out what spec works for you from there.

[WhoIsThis]

Right now, I'm leaning in favor of maybe 160 dex, the rest going into int. The 160 should be enough to use any dex weapon or armor, while the rest will ensure a potent base damage for the spells.

@Royce:

I'm not sure that what you are saying is true - either for the drops nor for the pure int mage. Drops, I've seen enough to know that the person that fires the killing shot for Lesser Dijin and the lesser alien bosses (especially in victory lap) will often get the item.

Edit:
I'm not sure about pure int vs dexchantress. Pure int will rule against crowds - I'd expect dexchantress to actually do better 1v1, not as good as bird, but approaching.

[Royce]

Drops are random. Get the first hit, get the last, hold your device at a 72 degree angle while chanting Justg's middle name backwards, it doesn't matter. I've been playing this game close to a year now, and have heard a zillion crazy theories on different things affecting drops, so far there is zero evidence to support any of it.
Trust me I wish Dex mages were as good as they use to be. I have 7 mages (lol), so I will always keep at least one of each spec, but Dex is currently the worst of the bunch. At level 50 it's not bad, but still the weakest. Below level 50 there is no reason to go Dex with a mage IMO. You're just sacrificing too much skill damage. Carrying a powerful bow can really help, but you lose survivability and may as well just go int Mage with staff in that case. Your weapon can do AOE, your skill damage will be higher, and mage staffs (particularly dark ones) have some of the best procs in the game.

[Kossi]

oh i havent seen you in awhile, royce

[Phoenixking]

Dex has lower defense by the way in armor there the same for some reason cause skill buffs and all

[JackDonkey]

I've been looking and building a Dextress and well I also have a pure INT...

Damage wise the pure does a hecka lot more damage nearly 50 and I'm just poking past 15 on both.
Also I find I die less as a dextress because I start to sit back and let the range of the bow keep me alive.
But even with the ability to stay alive i find I spend 2 or 3 times longer killing with my dextress because of damage so it kinda evens.
I'm going through with my pure int because it is easier to kill with but I'm trying to use certain specials that will make it harder to master.
I expect later though once I get to 50 on my pure int I will PL my dextress to see if it's damage evens or or if it's more fun.

I think if you like to stand still you should try out the dextress but if you kinda like to be in the action but still stay safe choose pure int.

Oh and if you go with a dextress I recommend putting all your skill points on Frost Bite. It is extremely helpful if something is chasing you so you can'
freeze it and get your distance again.

[Royce]

FYI, I'm fairly certain staff range is the same as bow range, so you dont really gain a range advantage with dex. Wand range (like talon) is shorter.

[Agent]

I like Int mages better..

[JackDonkey]

I would have to disagree with that. I find myself having to get closer for the auto attack to hit, with the staff. The bow also shoots a lot faster. Lol

[WhoIsThis]

I would have to disagree with that. I find myself having to get closer for the auto attack to hit, with the staff. The bow also shoots a lot faster. Lol

With int mages, your staff isn't going to be the main damage source - the spells are going to be. Dex and strength mages on the other hand, you are going to shot with a bow or get in close to do damage.

Edit: I'm gonna try to get my mage build to 50 and respec around with different dex, strength, and int configs to experiment. I suspect that the best configuration will depend entirely on a person's play style.

[Arterra]

FYI, I'm fairly certain staff range is the same as bow range, so you dont really gain a range advantage with dex. Wand range (like talon) is shorter.

Blasters are the rage for this. Definetly longer than bows and staffs.

And lol @ someone directly contradicting Royce.
Why do you think leeching noobs keep stealing our loot? I doubt they and the finishing blow.

[Royce]

I would have to disagree with that. I find myself having to get closer for the auto attack to hit, with the staff. The bow also shoots a lot faster. Lol

I just tested it. Staff range = bow range, at least for the ones I tried. Some bows are faster, some are not. Bow and staff speeds are fairly comparable. I'm sorry but it really doesn't depend on play style. There is just no advantage to Dex any more. It's fine to build a Dex mage, and they can be fun, but there is no advantage over int. Same range, similar survivability, less damage with Dex. I suppose if you are going to use the blaster for range at 50, but honestly why? You only have two skills that can reach close to that far, and if you want to use your debuffs or AOE you're going to have to move in much closer anyway. The only real advantages as far as I can see for a Dex mage are the range of the blaster (a procless weapon that exceeds you skill range), the proc of the sunblessed bow (for pvp this would be the only reason IMO to play a Dex mage), and the fact that by doing less damage, you will draw less aggro and possibly survive a little better (by helping your group less lol).

[FluffNStuff]

I would have to disagree with that. I find myself having to get closer for the auto attack to hit, with the staff. The bow also shoots a lot faster. Lol

Aren't you in the 20s? Completely different then at 50. And seriously, good luck leveling a dex mage till 35, your pot burn is gonna be off the charts.

[WhoIsThis]

Aren't you in the 20s? Completely different then at 50. And seriously, good luck leveling a dex mage till 35, your pot burn is gonna be off the charts.

I'm forced to agree with that one - if you want to try dex-mage, don't respec until 35 and put some skills into int.

[WhoIsThis]

Update: I've leveled to 50. After a bit of trying, the best compromise is probably what might be called a dex-pally, that is, everything in dex instead of strength. It gives the flexibility of dual wielding both types of weapons, dex and int. I've gone for dex 126 (the rest is due to bonus from void set), int 128, strength unchanged at 1. Below you see my build.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_qxqUJiD0__c/TTpW5fSWQqI/AAAAAAAAAFI/WjpNoNLxXFk/Dexchantress1.png

Your gun is about 75% as powerful as a pure dex (more misses, slightly less damage when hit), although the blessings increase critical hits significantly when used. Gonna be comparing it with pure int.

[Ellyidol]

Yup, thats the ideal build if you want to go dex mage. Since there is no point in more dex than what you need for gear, int should be the rest. And, to me, dex mages still mean you only want to use the gun :P

[WhoIsThis]

I'm also not sure that this is the best PVP config - it doesn't have the stopping power of a bird or a pure int. Still, after testing it, I still feel that it is a viable build for PvE and arguably (depending on play style and other factors) a more effective build than strength pally in certain situations.

Once I get my hands on shadow armor, I will test against pure int.

[WhoIsThis]

Here is my build with int weaponry:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_qxqUJiD0__c/TUI1xbyKs0I/AAAAAAAAAFw/jCaZkiBS10w/Dexchantress%202.png

As I said earlier, I am going to respeccing to pure int for testing and comparison.

Edit: I'm not sure this is Apples to Apples, as perhaps I should be using the Crystal Staff (and I should be comparing to dex Sentinel), but I think that glow stick and creepy doll is overall better.

[WhoIsThis]

Yup, thats the ideal build if you want to go dex mage. Since there is no point in more dex than what you need for gear, int should be the rest. And, to me, dex mages still mean you only want to use the gun :P


For that, I've got my pure-dex bird. Lol.

[BlazeMystic]

I now have full shadow armour and use a hybrid str/int mage. I've been experimenting with different strength ratings and currently using strength 70 (was 95 and only 1 point drop in armour since going down to 70), with int bonuses added from the shadow armour her int is 231. She has a fairly good survivability with armour of 105. I haven't tried a pure int mage with the shadow armour. I cannot see any benefit from using dexmage now that shadow armour is available; other than not been able to use the gun. I switch to the cosmos/keepers staff to get the bonus when I'm not worried about my character dying. So far, it appears that this build is working quite well for me - because I am fundamentally after more int but with improved survivability. I never have to use mana potions except for when I've used the mana shield ability.

[WhoIsThis]

Pure int mode:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_qxqUJiD0__c/TUSIfmvvrHI/AAAAAAAAAGA/Ozeojd_4sqQ/Pure%20Int.png

The more I play it, I'm actually starting to like being pure int. Agreed, no mana shields = no mana pot used. Survivability will depend on skill - don't be in front charging all the time, but I think that Royce was right about pure int being the most potent in overall damage output at level 50.

Royce - sorry I ever doubted you on this one.

[BlazeMystic]

Those stats look pretty good - perhaps I'll try pure int mage now...

[WhoIsThis]

Those stats look pretty good - perhaps I'll try pure int mage now...

Remember though, sudden death is a serious drawback - a level 1 bird has 32% more hp and a level 1 bear has 51% more.

[MoonYeol]

For PvE I'd say there's really just three alternatives, pure int for spell dmg, dual int/str to be able to survive in tight situations where your ability to res is the only thing keeping the party going and int/str hybrid. I actually never really cared for the hybrids, I've played pure int, int/dex, pally and int/str. I've currently settled for int/str just because I want to be able to survive if the party sucks.

There isn't any obvious gain in using dex gear, the dmg is about the same if you're using a blaster or a staff (not noticable) maybe it feels a bit better to be able to start attacking before you get within range of mob attacks. Though blaster/staff and talon/wand are quite similar in dmg and armor so besides having a better hit % and crit % there are few real advantages using dex.

I honestly can't understand why you would sacrifice all your int just to get a few points extra in armor and a little bit more h/s. So if you're going to tank, I suggest putting as little str as possible to still be able to do some dmg. Dual spec actually really nice and flexible. If you know that you're NEVER going to use str gear, go hybrid but mages benefit from having a high h/s and m/s. (Int gear has the highest in both.)

So I find myself wondering why I'm even int/str, maybe pure int is the way to go. With shadow set glow stick/creepy doll, you can survive pretty well. However, 400 hp feels a bit tight.

[BlazeMystic]

It will be interesting to see how PL develops the concept of rings and crafting items when the new update arrives. It might be that there will be items for a pure int mage that could make this build far more appealing and dual spec characters could lose it's popularity. After all, since the arrival of shadow items, a pure int mage appears a more worthwhile contender now. My hybrid mage has full shadow armour and is certainly better than the dual spec mage and I find that I don't miss switching to the str equivalent spec during difficult times in a game. But then again when I changed stats and opted for more int, my game style has had to change and I am far less careless and I believe I play a lot better as a result.

[Dranby]

Maybe I hope so

[Ellyidol]

I really hope 1.7 brings back the pure int mages. I like my dual specs, but I'd just prefer pure ones, really. And I'd have to make separate characters to try hybrids, which would give me something else to do.

[WhoIsThis]

I really hope 1.7 brings back the pure int mages. I like my dual specs, but I'd just prefer pure ones, really. And I'd have to make separate characters to try hybrids, which would give me something else to do.

I'd have to argue that pure int mages are already pretty viable. In a situation where there's 4 birds or bears and 1 pure int mage, that pure int mage, if you know how to play if effectively will do more damage than the rest of the team combined.

Mastering survivability is the challenge - knowing when to use mana shield. Btw, your mana regen is so fast that even if your mana shield is depleted, you can still cast spells like normal!

For me though, the challenge is mastering this build in pvp. The majority of my deaths come from surprise attacks from enemy birds.

Edit:
The pure int is a hard to play build and it should only be played by veterans who are comfortable with having tested out several builds. In particular, try the transition from pally to hybrid. If that goes well, consider pure int. If not, stay with pally or even strength mage. Dex mage is only if you liked the transition and want to try something different.

Damage potential is huge, but so is sudden death. It really depends on your play style.

[dankndecay]

Can anyone comment on how a dextress feels with an aoe staff? My thought is this...the whole point of dextress is increasing single target dmg. By adding the dex you get increase in single target dmg but what happens if you try to magnify that dmg increase by adding something that does splashes. Does that splash dmg benefit from the dps increase of the dex? If it does, it would make up for some of the loss in skill dmg. I'm interested in this set up because it give me the options of doing aoe nuking and talon and shield for survivability. Thanks ahead of time for you input.

[WhoIsThis]

This thread is 3 months old... necroing dead threads is frowned upon for good reason.

A lot has changed since then. I'd recommend starting a new thread on the matter and not replying to this post.

[dankndecay]

Sorry if I've committed a faux pas. I didn't know using an old thread was a bad thing. I though we'd want to keep all the info in the same area. Thank you for the suggestion on starting a new thread.

[NoKkkab]

WhoIsThis, where you live in Ontario?

[Register]

I made a dex mage just for the raid roach armor
With full RR you can get 100+ crit which will almost always if not always hit 2x damage. I am going to sub the bow for a more powerful bow that can easily deal serious damage...so..ya

[WhoIsThis]

As I said, keep this thread dead. It was made before the Sewers ever came out.

[Register]

LOL sorry...