"Elite Shadow Cave" teleporter spawn frequency

[Cinco]

We can make it easier to get in there (which could lower the prices you expect to get from selling the new items on CS).
We can make it harder (which could make it less worth-while for less hard-core players... but keep those items super rare and valuable).
We can make it guaranteed (which will lead to me having to nerf the boss drop rates or their spawn rates within the Shadow caves).

We can also keep it the same.

I'd like to know what you think :)

- Cinco

[Lesrider]

Lol sorry I just found that too funny to even choose.

Edit: My choice would be to make it a guaranteed spawn, but take the caves off the "join game" list so people can't "mooch" in Pharcyde's words ;)

Also, please consider allowing some sort of save/checkpoint system to allow people to play through the caves in more than one sitting.

[Bigsleazy]

I think the current balance provides a happy medium between difficulty and availability. I'm sure I'm in the minority though.

[Pharcyde]

Cinco, personally I think that we should have the best of both worlds. Semi-hard (Still Elite) gears like it is now. Then have a rare portal spawn in the last level of Elite dungeon that takes you to a epicly hard/large cave with a respawning boss with Vyxnaar type of loot. I would spend hours in a dungeon like that. Right now I perfer to play Ao3 Vs. Elite because Elite is kinda boring. Yeah its hard but its just more potion and hp trolling.

[dude5390]

Make it easier to get there :)
Thats wat i think u should do :D

[Echelong]

Dam pressed the wrong vote -_- anyway more frequent but not guaranteed seems fair.

[Echelong]

You should add the if always appear I will have to nerf rates on the vote description.

[Pharcyde]

Also please think about raising gold drop and item drop rates for junk mobs. I feel like I am paying rent in the dungeon because of how fast gold disappears from potions and elixirs.

Maybe lower junk mobs armor a tiny bit too. They are hard which is fine, don't lower attack. But it gets kinda boring spending so much time on junk mobs.

Edit: Perhaps Shadow D'Jinn's could drop slightly better items considering they are a step up from Lorekeepers.

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab276/brandonb3/bcd981d5.jpg

[Kalielle]

We can make it guaranteed (which could lead to me having to nerf the boss drop rates or their spawn rates within the Shadow caves).


This gets my vote, but if you're going to nerf anything please nerf the drop rates not the boss spawn rates.

[Echelong]

This gets my vote, but if you're going to nerf anything please nerf the drop rates not the boss spawn rates.

On todays update they changed that. You should read todays update.


Also please think about raising gold drop and item drop rates for junk mobs. I feel like I am paying rent in the dungeon because of how fast gold disappears from potions and elixirs.

Maybe lower junk mobs armor a tiny bit too. They are hard which is fine, don't lower attack. But it gets kinda boring spending so much time on junk mobs.

Edit: Perhaps Shadow D'Jinn's could drop slightly better items considering they are a step up from Lorekeepers.

I like that idea. +1

[Cascade]

I want to vote for all new item drops from shadow caves so we can start over without people already having the drops without having to farm their butts off because they got them before the update...But that choice is not up there....Hope you consider doing this

[Echelong]

I want to vote for all new item drops from shadow caves so we can start over without people already having the drops without having to farm their butts off because they got them before the update...But that choice is not up there....Hope you consider doing this

Keep in mind that having some people with the sets makes clearing the caves now faster.

[krazii]

First of all, thanks for allowing us to vote on this, I appreciate you actively seeking the players input. Would you leave this poll up for a few days so we can play a bit before deciding on our vote. Don't think I've played enough with the latest update to cast a informed vote.

Thanks again,

Kraz

Edit: Make drops 100% again and guaranteed portal, then refriedchicken will go broke with all the shadow gear he bought up trying to maximize his profit.

[Pharcyde]

Keep in mind that having some people with the sets makes clearing the caves now faster.

Also prices won't be ridiculously high for items. No need for some guy dropping 5m in the first week to get the sets for insane prices. If rates were now as they were in the beginning, single items would cost easily 1m+. Armor would be like 1.8m :P. Thats more money then even some hardcores have :P.

[Echelong]

Also prices won't be ridiculously high for items. No need for some guy dropping 5m in the first week to get the sets for insane prices. If rates were now as they were in the beginning, single items would cost easily 1m+. Armor would be like 1.8m :P. Thats more money then even some hardcores have :P.

If I had a spare set I would wait maybe a week after the set bonus to sell them. When people see the set bonus they will know how much they are worth. But I do get your point, this was an opportunity for a lot of people to farm them easy and store them to sell later.

[Pharcyde]

Well I think that it wasn't the devs intentions for people to load up and get rich fast. But it will turn out better since people already got gears and can farm now. The Elite Dungeon is still really hard with the new gears.

[Kujen]

Either make it appear more frequently or guaranteed. I'm not sure which I want to vote for yet. If I could get in 1 out of 3 that would be fine.

But it definitely should not be less frequent nor the same. I haven't even heard of anyone finding the portal yet. This is a game that's designed to be more casual and I shouldn't have to play it all day long just to get into a dungeon, and even then there would only be a very small shot at getting a pink...that everyone already got before this.

There is no reason for these items to be harder to obtain than the gear in other MMO's super long raids.

[Pharcyde]

There is no reason for these items to be harder to obtain than the gear in other MMO's super long raids.

Not sure what you mean. Other MMO's have items that can require over 20,000 kills before getting the drop. Vyxnaar is one of the rarest drops in the game (or so I think) and Mystic proved how high the drop rates were by getting 3 of them in 17 hours.

[Kujen]

I'm referring to the raids in other games where guilds can spend all night in one dungeon. At least they can get in the dungeon, and the boss will be there to have a shot at. People have to keep in mind that this is not a hardcore desktop MMO. No they shouldn't be super easy to get, but they shouldn't be this difficult at all.

I could spend hours doing Victory Lap and I can't even get into the caves. Even if I did, the drop rate is low..I'd probably get nothing and have to do Victory Lap all day again for another chance. I already have the gear anyway, as do many others, and the stats are not *that* much better....the value of these items is not high enough to warrant the current difficulty.

It doesn't help that so many people already have this gear to begin with. Lower levels or even people who just happened to not log on the other day, will have to spend weeks playing it this way to get the gear that we have already gotten within a couple hours. If they want some epic gear to be extremely hard to obtain, as it stands now, at least do that with new gear while it's first introduced. And if that gear is going to be so hard to obtain, make the stats way better than other gear.

[Protank]

my choice is make it how it was when u first releast it. i missed out on the 100% drops cuz work. so i want my 100% chance at those items like everyone else got...

[ECHUSER]

always appear when you finish Victory Lap. nerf the boss drop rate. boss should always spawn at the end of a level. when/if set bonuses come out, nerf drop rate from bosses even more. also, please increase the trash drop rate. i lost money last night from all the pots and elixirs i consumed from doing shadow dungeon runs. thanks

update: reason being if i can join a shadow game i should be gauranteed access to the portal if i take the time to clear victory lap. when/if bonuses for hate death and shadows happens it should be proportionately more difficult to obtain the set (aka portal occurs less frequently, cant join games (invite only), bosses may or may not spawn.

[chrononh]

Why didn't you guys just make it like Frozen Nightmares was when it first came out? We had to unlock the succeeding dungeons, it was super hard, even for level 45s (and 50s later on), and the pink drop rates were pretty decent even though they were not entirely common. The campaign also required a lot of teamwork and was difficult enough for low levels to stay away from it. At least before it was nerfed.

Tying the new dungeons to Victory Lap makes it more complicated than it should be, especially if the portal is guaranteed to appear anyway. As some have pointed out, this is a casual game. Not everyone has hours on end to get through all the maps in one sitting.

[Fyrce]

Oh man, I'm in the minority again. LOL. I'd go for either of the not guaranteed options. I voted for more frequently than now, but I do like the random spawns and I think players are hardcore enough that even as it is now, people will still manage to run it and run it frequently enough that there will be gears, though maybe a bit on the higher market value side.

I only ask to be invited in so I and other players who play in smaller snippets of time can play there occasionally.

[ProSophist]

I think it should appear more frequently but not guaranteed.
Though I do believe it needs some change in concept.

It's an Elite dungeon so it's supposed to be designed for the more hardcore players instead of the normal, casual players. So there should be a little grind involved to get there.

As for the Shadow Cave itself, I think it's safe to say that a lot of people are getting annoyed of how boring it is more than challenging.

A few suggestions that I have in mind is instead of filling the room with 100+ mobs that do nothing different from the typical ao3 mob other than hit harder and have more health, lessen the number around 30 to 50, tops. Like many people have stated, no strategy is involved in killing these mobs and they only require TONS of pots.

Then instead of just having one boss in one room, why not add a little twist by having 2 D'Jinns with a boss, or 2 bosses at the same time. Not only would this give the newly buffed bears a tanking purpose, but crowd control tactics may finally become handy.

Shadow Cave has a lot of potential but I do hope that you consider majority of our inputs before making another decision so we, including devs, don't have to deal with too many "fixes."

[Timmeee]

make it harder to get in but add set bonuses to the new armor sets!!! just sayin :)

[Inching]

all i can say is thank god i got all my new gear as i know any new updates gets nerfed after the first 3 days.... phew~!

[krazii]

Okay, I voted for always appear because:

1. All areas of the game should be accessible without a huge headache.
2. Even if it's played all the time, it's a grind and loot won't be easy to come by.

As for the loot nerf that would accompany it. I ask you devs to please reconsider, as it stands now the loot doesn't drop that much and it's a long tough grind to get to the end of each cave.

BTW, Cinco, you outdid yourself with the update, the boss encounters are awesome, multiple bosses, tough as nails, need all classes to clear them, good job!

Kraz

[thugimmortal]

Dam pressed the wrong vote -_- anyway more frequent but not guaranteed seems fair.

Me too

please dont nerf the caves anymore they have been nerfed enough already
i dont want to spend all that time and gold without at least getting 1 good pink
i have already stopped going to the caves since the first nerf. i want a reason to go back into the caves. there should be a reward other than rsi (repetitive strain).

[Kalielle]

I finally got into the new caves last night and the multiple boss encounters are awesome! At some point we ran into the witch, the shadow prince and another boss all in the same room. We got wiped twice with 3 palas and 2 birds, almost all double potted. Finally someone brought in a bear who could separate the witch from the others better, and we defeated them then. I'm gonna start playing my bear again - they are far from useless now. Love the challenge!! Thank you!!!

As for the loot nerf, I agree with Kraz - the current nerf is quite drastic already. I haven't heard from anyone yet who has ever seen a rare drop (other than AO3 junk pinks). People are saying things like "playing the caves, just for fun" (meaning no loot) and "nothing to farm here". I'm going to be playing the caves for fun even with the all white loot, but it would be nice to have some reward to show after defeating possibly the most difficult dungeons we have ever seen in the game.

I think a drop rate similar to AO3 Victory Lap would not be unreasonable. I don't think it would make the market crash. VL has been farmed and overfarmed for months, can be rush farmed and is about 100 times easier than the caves - and still the loot that's in demand was going for 200-300k before the new stuff came out. We have a lot of players getting to the level cap just now, and the demand for level 50 stuff is there.

Seeing something like maybe 1 or 2 rares per five level cave run would be enough to keep morale up, and would give casuals an incentive to farm for the gear they're missing, and hardcore farmers an incentive to keep farming the caves rather than just make money merching the loot they accumulated during the past week.

[Prest87]

All I want is a better item drop rate. Missed the day before the patch :(

[Arterra]

Lol considering how some of us don't even get loot from VL drop rates, further nerfing not good. Just saying.

[Faryia]

I kind of like it the way it is now because of the prices on the new items. Also, it allows those "hardcore" players to farm Victory Lap without even knowing it while they are waiting for the Caves to appear.

However, I think it best that you cannot just "join" in any caves whenever you choose to. People work hard to get to a the 3-5 caves. So someone joining it is like an insult to all the hard work. I don't know that's just me :/

I like how you (Devs) allowed for 100% drop rates the day of the update. =-)

But now, my only complaint is that Caves 4 & 5 are kinda sketchy (sorry). There are so many hard Boss's that it takes multiple Pots to even beat them. And those aren't really that cheap. And without a good chance of getting something that isn't "green" or "white", it just feels like a waste of money by the end of it. =-(




p.s. Asommers, stop scaring me! hehe (I know I'm your favorite Pally *wink)


Lvl 50 Faryia (Dual Str & Int)


p.s.s. I have 3 Sets of all Cave pinks if anyone wants to buy =-) Thanks!!!!

[Tour]

For me it's all about balance.

1. Getting a portal to spawn? Difficult. Victory Lap is easy, Portal spawn rate is rare. I say difficult because i'm looking at this question from a time consumption standpoint. It may take you a few hours to even get a portal to spawn.

2. The trash / Bosses in Shadow Caves? Fairly Difficult, depending on the group you get. Those 3 pulls with the Prince, Witch, Lord are rediculous.

3. Getting a Shadow Cave boss to drop pinks? Extremely Difficult, taking into account the above questions, on top of their rare drop rate.

4. Gold cost while doing Shadow Caves? Extreme. I feel like the Shadow Caves can be very doable if I just dump money into it. I can almost solo every boss and trash pulls if I be careful, keep a Melee / Tanker pot up and Spam the crap out of my HP pot. It would take me probably cost me well over 25,000 gold in Elixirs and HP/Mana pots to clear one level. I'm a bird in Rift. I get sick of people sucking vs Djinn's, so I put on my rift gear and take control and tank it. Everything stablizes but I use 100+ hp pots for one mob. That's 1,500g.

So here is the last qualifier that makes me feel none of the above is even worth the time. Nothing in the game is as difficult as the Shadow Caves yet, the new gear isn't OMG I GOTTA HAVE IT so much better than anything else. It may be a little better, or it's arguable. So for me, it's about balance. You have to make the gear hands down the best, no question, if you want to keep the difficulty of everything above the same. Otherwise, you need to nerf the content if you aren't going to adjust the gear.

If you do adjust the gear, a set bonus would be great and do just that, make the new gear the best, hands down. But please do it right. The new gear should help make the new content easier and there isn't any doubt in what is going to do that. Damage, Armor, and hit (I woulda said crit but new gear lacks hit in a big way).

[Kujen]

^I agree with all this. But we have this problem where tons of people already have the new gear and didn't have to work much for it, while people just starting it didn't have that opportunity. The caves are fun, but they're a gold sink and the rewards are gear that most of us already have.

If this is supposed to be the best gear in the game, and this hard to obtain, yeah it needs way better stats than the other stuff. But if they just improve what we've already got, to make it super-awesome, that's just another blow to the people who weren't there while it was 100% drop rate.

Maybe add more new gear to the caves, gear that nobody already has. Like *elite* versions of what we've already gotten from there. That would make it where anyone going to the caves has a fair opportunity to get it, because the drop rate will be the same and nobody has already easily gotten it. It would also compel those who already have the current sets to want to go back and farm for something better.

[Arterra]

^I agree with all this. But we have this problem where tons of people already have the new gear and didn't have to work much for it, while people just starting it didn't have that opportunity. The caves are fun, but they're a gold sink and the rewards are gear that most of us already have.


lots of games have bonuses for people who where there first, who supported the game first, etc. it's commonplace, PL already does it. i dont see any recurrence of original green droid ears ever again. so most of the hardcores got our gear already, still no reason to not make it worthwhile. we where there playing on it the first day, and so we got it for being first. thats life.

[testerx]

ok from a fun point of view, we had 2 shadow witch's on the 3rd map.. in seperate areas at the end. one shadow witch also had a shadow prince and a shadow genie (i think genie) with her and one was solo with a few mobs.

we spent near 20k on pots, countless deaths but they all died in end... yeah it was fun because it was so hard, yeah it was super super annoying and pointless that we had to use over 25 hp pots or more each per boss (i was only mage) and yeah it was even more annoying not one of the 4 boss's we had on the 3rd map dropped anything more than yellow loot !!

btw first two maps didn't drop any pinks either.

So, we are almost there, the challenge is awesome, but the loot is dire - i personally wont be going back in there the way i feel at the moment - sure the hardness was cool but i do also want some reward for killing 3 boss's at the same time and another clone of the hardest boss in game by herself for no reward, it was a kick in the teeth for the 20k of pots that each player bought while we figured out teh kill order.

not to mention the 10man hrs invested into a game that is meant to be able to be done when you have a spare half hour. If i wanted long raids i would just play mmo's on a pc and enjoy better graphics tactics and rewards!!

Agree 100% I did the same last night, and had a good few hours of play. In the end i bought the items,, after spending 50k in pots, countless hp and mana tank and dmg. ones. The reward, time and energy it was simply not worth it.

And don't even get me started on ppl who made hundreds and millions, who of course, want to keep the drop rate low. Yeah, I understand you, but this is ridiculous. There is a post of a guy who's done 45 runs and got lucky with a drop. Well me and my party, some with luck pots done the same. NOT A SINGLE PINK DROP for ANYONE. In 30+ long runs.

Fun, fun, fun.

The only plus sides are the challenge, but a challenge is worth nothing without a reward. For a challenge I'll play with no armor on some levels, hehe.

First, some of us who work really hard for equipment, rift, cyber, etc. had to see shadow items on almost every 50. Then they were practically gone, and the prices went up. I feel the devs went from one extreme to the other. First too many then too few (well, none)

I suggest a guarantee pink drop, to keep the party together, i see more green loot already appears, that's fine, to balance the money spent.

As others have said, this is a mobile mmo, if I wanted 4 hours runs ill play wow.(at least u get a drop there) But 4 hours runs, hoping the party sticks together, getting bankrupt in the process, and getting virtually no drops is not fun anymore.

Thank you.

PS. Its funny that people that already have 3 sets wanna lower further the drop rates. Sound a little to hypocritical for me.

PSS I post this in another thread but it is better here.

[Physiologic]

As someone that benefited from the rock bottom prices of the elite pinks, I have to say I do feel sorry for those who missed out on this opportunity; I would feel frustrated as well. In my humble opinion, the devs should just do a rust storm or roll back to give everyone an equal opportunity once again to obtain the pinks.

I know roll backs are horrible for the economy, a pain in the neck for devs to go through, and overall major suckage, but it seems fair.

[testerx]

Also, seeing the rewards and how the market was flooded, I cannot image who is gonna keep going after shadow drops.

People who don't have them will realize is not worth it, cost you more gold, time, energy for a chance to get them. Either buy them in market, or do Cyber quest, or farm/buy rift etc.

People who already got them, will not go after them, as again, its not worth it. If I had 3 sets each, as someone was bragging, I will spend time selling, at the best, not going after just another item.

Do not get me wrong, I like the challenge, I like to quest and farm( if there is something), but it is just ridiculous to get through 20 ppl in a party, just to kill a boss thats got a very low chance to drop an item you may not even need, lol.

And as someone said, all this would be slightly less frustrating without people stashing full sets.

Maybe rollback is a solution, with a properly design Shadow Cave this time.

[matta1985]

I voted for always appear at the end of VL runs, although i have an idea that may keep people happy with farming for the new items. I agree with keeping the drop rate low, considering these are classed as "elite" items. But what if you made it so when the elite items do eventually drop, everyone in the party receives an item. That way, it will keep a steady circulation of new items floating around, but not to the extent of a flooded market due to the extremely low drop rate... Just my thoughts

[Riccits]

if the teleporter apper more or less frequently it doestn make any difference to the rarity of the elite gear...
i have still that problems ;) :
- drop rate to low
- no trash drops exept from shadows
- to less gold drops from mobs

[Echelong]

if the teleporter apper more or less frequently it doestn make any difference to the rarity of the elite gear...
i have still that problems ;) :
- drop rate to low
- no trash drops exept from shadows
- to less gold drops from mobs

In the last patch they gave more gold from drops and the teleporter spawns more frequent. I don't know if the gold dropped is enough I haven't run the caves since the patch due to time.

[Riccits]

In the last patch they gave more gold from drops and the teleporter spawns more frequent. I don't know if the gold dropped is enough I haven't run the caves since the patch due to time.

lol i know and still to low to buy pots for...

[Tour]

If I had my way I would:

1. Make the teleporter appear guaranteed at the end of a full clear of victory lap.

2. Give the trash in Shadow Caves greens, oranges, whites, trash drops. IMO, Victory Lap is the best farming in the game. Steady income from trash drops, pretty darn easy overall resulting in very little pot and elixir usage, and a decent chance at a high ticket item to drop and fatten your bank more. That aside, Shadow Caves has none of that with about a tenfold cost in pots / elixirs added to it. I don't understand that if your scheme of loot drops from the rest of the game worked so well, how Shadow Caves comes out with barely anything? Perhaps it's a design issue and you added the gear as time went along in the past. I'm newer to Pocket Legends, so this is my first dungeon/level add-on I've experienced.

3. Make the gear drops in Shadow Caves drop with the same frequency as those in Victory Lap. Lets be honest, Victory Lap has a good balance of effort for gear drop percentage. Now these new pinks are elite and should drop rarer? Yeah, I get that but lets take into account in Victory Lap you could 'rush' the bosses, that were all neatly stacked next to each other portal after portal. In Shadow Caves you cannot, you have to deal with the hours of trash and cave clearing. So by sheer design you are forced to way fewer boss encounters in Shadow Caves than Victory Lap thus inherently making your ability to get the new gear rarer without having to nerf the drop rate. I think in the MMO world it's always better to start by giving too little than to give to much. So I would make the drop rate the same as VL, do a lot of testing and see if the drop rate needs to even be increased a little bit more.

4. Give the new 'elite' gear a set bonus. Damage, Armor, hit. For difficulty and time invested, the new 'elite' gear should absolutely hands down be the best gear available. No debate.

[Ava]

Clear VL , higher frequency portal spawn. Not 100%, 70% spawn rate is fine.
Increase boss challenge. Multiple bosses, require strategy and different class co-op. Like it.
Forget boss spawn frequency, no boss = no challenge.
Increase elite drop rate, minimum one boss to one player in group. More players in group increases drop rate. Single player no drop. Encourage group play.
Rewards make it worthwhile, even tho not all player gets a elite drop, I still feel that at least someone gets something.
Stop pandering to greedy players selling their loots for 100,000 gold. That's gouging, you don't want to encourage or enable that kind of behavior.
Set level 50 minimum. I am starting to see hostile behaviors from players asking lower levels to get out.
Keep join through friends list. remove from Join/Host list.
Higher gold drop in mobs. Elixirs/pot chugs needed for bosses. So higher gold help balances out.


Have fun playing together.

Love the game, good job devs.

[Ava]

The witch is insane. Please reduce her damage points. We got 2 witches in one level. Players just gave up trying.