View Full Version : Can rogues dodge skills?
MoloToha
08-04-2014, 08:01 AM
Honestly, I didn't see rogues dodging in PvP a lot. I saw how rogues dodge autoattacks, but do they dodge skills as well?
UndeadJudge
08-04-2014, 09:05 AM
Only autos.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Soundlesskill
08-08-2014, 10:26 AM
You can dodge pet stuns and various CC abilites too. Try use Malison's AA vs a mage shooting a Fireball at you. The lucky scenario is you will dodge it.
Instanthumor
08-08-2014, 11:59 AM
You can dodge pet stuns and various CC abilites too. Try use Malison's AA vs a mage shooting a Fireball at you. The lucky scenario is you will dodge it.
You can't dodge a Fireball stun.
You can't dodge a Fireball stun.
You can.
Soundlesskill
08-11-2014, 08:40 AM
You can't dodge a Fireball stun.
I've recently dodged a fb. It's possible.
tellko
08-11-2014, 01:54 PM
does that mean razor shield is usefull, or is it just a wasted skill?
Niixed
08-12-2014, 12:44 AM
Since STS doesn't publish a handy guidebook we have to rely on anecdotes and trial-and-error. So unless someone can show definitive proof either way, the debate isn't over.
What about the hit chance stat? We can only see the dodge stat. It's probably a safe assumption that dodge and hit chance stats interact somehow.
Maybe you didn't dodge that fireball, maybe the mage just missed. Maybe fireball stun is chance-based, counter to the way the upgrade reads. Maybe the Spacetime Engine's attempts to sync gameplay fouls up more than we realize.
So... ya know.
Instanthumor
08-12-2014, 12:47 AM
You can.
No you can't...
SacredKnight
08-12-2014, 12:55 AM
No you can't...
Zeus vs Instanthumor
Grabs a seat and some popcorn..
Madnex
08-12-2014, 03:48 AM
I've tested this extensively with instanab, charged Fireball always stuns unless mage doesn't charge or you got jugg/razor activated (with movement-impairing upgrades unlocked ). The stun immunity is not exactly immunity either, it just minimizes the stun duration to one second.
Niixed
08-12-2014, 08:51 AM
Thanks Madnex.
Instanthumor
08-12-2014, 12:27 PM
I've tested this extensively with instanab, charged Fireball always stuns unless mage doesn't charge or you got jugg/razor activated (with movement-impairing upgrades unlocked ). The stun immunity is not exactly immunity either, it just minimizes the stun duration to one second.
Yes, over 1000 samples eh
Soundlesskill
08-12-2014, 03:36 PM
does that mean razor shield is usefull, or is it just a wasted skill?
It certainly is, if you play correctly. I would tell you to ask Iluvataris for advice, but sadly he quit.
No you can't...
Explain why I could dodge your fireballs when I wasn't charging razor shield.
Instanthumor
08-12-2014, 08:05 PM
Explain why I could dodge your fireballs when I wasn't charging razor shield.
Can't "dodge" stun, maybe my stun just "missed" you :p
Can't "dodge" stun, maybe my stun just "missed" you :p
"Charged fireball never misses".
Instanthumor
08-12-2014, 08:53 PM
"Charged fireball never misses".
Well idk what the correct term is, but it ain't "dodge".. Maybe you're just "immune" while Razor is in effect?
Well idk what the correct term is, but it ain't "dodge".. Maybe you're just "immune" while Razor is in effect?
Okay, then explain Samael's AA working infrequently on rogues when compared to sorcerers and warriors?
Instanthumor
08-12-2014, 10:22 PM
Okay, then explain Samael's AA working infrequently on rogues when compared to sorcerers and warriors?
Don't ask me that question, I don't know. Ask Madnex... All I know is that you can't "dodge" a fireball stun.
Madnex
08-13-2014, 05:27 AM
We need to do testing with warrior then. All I know it that there was no dodge pop-up when sam terrify was failing on rogue.
We need to do testing with warrior then. All I know it that there was no dodge pop-up when sam terrify was failing on rogue.
A pet's AA does not count as an attack in code. Sure, it damages you but it does not register as an entity killing your avatar (AA only). Therefore, something not recognized as a valid attack cannot show as dodge on the avatar overhead damage bar even though it may actually have been dodged.
Proof:
• Curse will not reflect any pet's AA damage.
• SnS does not grant a kill/death when killed by poison pools.
I could be wrong but this is my observation.
Spellcheck
08-14-2014, 11:43 AM
That was a long battle, but the almighty god of thunder strikes a huge crit at Madnex and Instant. Will they come back? Or will Zeus finish them off.
Madnex
08-14-2014, 11:45 AM
Curse actually does reflect but back to pet not character -- visible in Alphawolf. SnS doesn't register AA hit kills as its owner's for the same reason deaths from elon bow proc don't either; the healing/damaging pools act as mediators.
More specifically, let's see Slag and Samael. Slag's terrify is linked to a small hit on AA activation. I do not believe that this hit can be dodged since I tested 50 times under razor and I didn't notice such a thing (~45% dodge). If the terrify works, a small fire-oriented damage DoT follows. Samael's panic is a bit different; it's not linked to any type of damage since it can't banish on PvP.
In PvE, if you dodge the attack that is linked to a pull/push hit then you avoid the pull/push as well (Grimnr's axe throw/arena pumpkins). In PvP though, I have yet to witness either a push or a pull actually dodged, be that from Whims or Vixen.
If that is proven to be possible then yes, there is a possibility that rogues can actually dodge Slag's terrify but for the reasons explained above, that would not be the case for Samael's panic.
Curse actually does reflect but back to pet not character -- visible in Alphawolf. SnS doesn't register AA hit kills as its owner's for the same reason deaths from elon bow proc don't either; the healing/damaging pools act as mediators.
More specifically, let's see Slag and Samael. Slag's terrify is linked to a small hit on AA activation. I do not believe that this hit can be dodged since I tested 50 times under razor and I didn't notice such a thing (~45% dodge). If the terrify works, a small fire-oriented damage DoT follows. Samael's panic is a bit different; it's not linked to any type of damage since it can't banish on PvP.
In PvE, if you dodge the attack that is linked to a pull/push hit then you avoid the pull/push as well (Grimnr's axe throw/arena pumpkins). In PvP though, I have yet to witness either a push or a pull actually dodged, be that from Whims or Vixen.
If that is proven to be possible then yes, there is a possibility that rogues can actually dodge Slag's terrify but for the reasons explained above, that would not be the case for Samael's panic.
Whims and Vixen have an attack that cannot be dodged. This is verified in patch notes
As for curse, this is based on the premise that alpha wolf's shield and curse code is the same. Can you verify that it is or is not? If it is, then cool! I learned something new!
As for Samael, to disprove my theory, do this test: record Samael's AA 50x on a warrior and then 50x on a rogue. If it can be dodged, the numbers will speak for themselves.
Spellcheck
08-14-2014, 12:08 PM
Zeus has just challenged the almighty Madnex to a test!! Will she do it? Instant humor is not even bothering to battle these 2 huge titans. It's all up to Madnex now. The faith of the argument lies up to Madnex. Who will win?
Madnex
08-14-2014, 12:12 PM
Whims and Vixen have an attack that cannot be dodged. This is verified in patch notes
As for curse, this is based on the premise that alpha wolf's shield and curse code is the same. Can you verify that it is or is not? If it is, then cool! I learned something new!
As for Samael, to disprove my theory, do this test: record Samael's AA 50x on a warrior and then 50x on a rogue. If it can be dodged, the numbers will speak for themselves.
That's what I'm planning to do when I get some free time. You could help with the tests yourself too. :p
Spellcheck
08-14-2014, 12:17 PM
So tense! Madnex accepted it but she says she will only do it on her free time. Madnex challenged Zeus back to do a test himself. Is Zeus low on Stamina or is he too lazy? Find out here!
That's what I'm planning to do when I get some free time. You could help with the tests yourself too. :p
Do you have free time now? I'll download the app.
Madnex
08-14-2014, 02:40 PM
Test results comparing Samael's terrify used on Rogue (45.56% dodge) and used on Warrior (5.22% dodge):
27-29
Conclusion, dodge does not assist rogues against movement-impairing pet Arcane Abilities.
Zeus nab. :p
Ishtmeet
08-14-2014, 02:42 PM
No you can't...
You can dodge FB stuns and that's why rogue don't get stunned sometimes
Ishtmeet
08-14-2014, 02:44 PM
Test results comparing Samael's terrify used on Rogue (45.56% dodge) and used on Warrior (5.22% dodge):
27-29
Conclusion, dodge does not assist rogues with movement-impairing pet Arcane Abilities.
Zeus nab. :p
*Slapped Zeus's face*
GG
Instanthumor
08-14-2014, 03:57 PM
You can dodge FB stuns and that's why rogue don't get stunned sometimes
You can't dodge a fireball stun.
Madnex
08-14-2014, 05:11 PM
You can dodge FB stuns and that's why rogue don't get stunned sometimes
Tested with instanab, didn't look like rogue can dodge Fireball stun. I can come online and show you if you want. Or I can just farm you in TDM. Both work. XD
Serancha
08-14-2014, 06:28 PM
There was a big deal about 6 months ago when people realized rogues can't dodge skills in pvp, making our highest stat useless. I am honestly surprised this was being debated since it's been known for so long.
Nice job testing though Madnub
Test results comparing Samael's terrify used on Rogue (45.56% dodge) and used on Warrior (5.22% dodge):
27-29
Conclusion, dodge does not assist rogues with movement-impairing pet Arcane Abilities.
Zeus nab. :p
Gg, Madnab. I can still farm you in 2v2 though! :p
@Sera
Rogues can't dodge skills but stuns are not skills which is why it was being debated.
Madnex
08-15-2014, 06:34 AM
T.T Fb stun and then rogue combo. I'll blame the glitched razor.
Endkey
08-15-2014, 07:14 AM
Just a game guys...is all this testing really necessary? if i die of a tooo long stun or any sort of thing.i call it fate and accept the death lol...btw its not u who shud be testing these things constantly..and it shudnt be madnab who has to make threads of bugs..its the job of the devs to find the probs..
MoloToha
08-15-2014, 08:47 AM
If rogue can dodge fb stun, then it should dodge axe pull as well, but I never saw this. Anyway, I don't play mage a lot (although, planning on making a l32 twink), so I can't say for sure if rogues can dodge skills' side effects, or not. After all, rogues can dodge autos, which negates nearly 1/5-1/4 of our total damage output.
bunbunmaru
08-15-2014, 11:14 AM
GM can you make a new character please
bunbunmaru
08-15-2014, 11:14 AM
please you make a new character
Remember Me
08-16-2014, 12:50 PM
Fireball always stuns..... If it does not stun you, you aren't in the active AoE effect....
Kingumar
08-21-2014, 04:24 AM
Since STS doesn't publish a handy guidebook we have to rely on anecdotes and trial-and-error. So unless someone can show definitive proof either way, the debate isn't over.
What about the hit chance stat? We can only see the dodge stat. It's probably a safe assumption that dodge and hit chance stats interact somehow.
Maybe you didn't dodge that fireball, maybe the mage just missed. Maybe fireball stun is chance-based, counter to the way the upgrade reads. Maybe the Spacetime Engine's attempts to sync gameplay fouls up more than we realize.
So... ya know.
When someone miss it shows the miss sign and when you dodge it shows the dodge sign. Its that simple
epicrrr
08-22-2014, 04:32 AM
Yes everything can be dodge, ive seen fireball being dodged by my rog.
Instanthumor
08-22-2014, 04:33 AM
Yes everything can be dodge, ive seen fireball being dodged by my rog.
You cannot dodge a fireball stun.
Saribeau
08-22-2014, 06:16 PM
Yes everything can be dodge, ive seen fireball being dodged by my rog.
u cant dodge it, even if u could what r u lvl 12 or something? whats your dodge % like 15? this is laughable
Saribeau
08-22-2014, 06:16 PM
You cannot dodge a fireball stun.
i like your sig.
Kingumar
08-24-2014, 01:57 AM
u cant dodge it, even if u could what r u lvl 12 or something? whats your dodge % like 15? this is laughable
She is in leaderboard have some respect lol and even if you have 15% dodge you can still dodge attacks it dosent have to be more than 50% to dodge you know. If it is like 15% dodge then it depends on your luck you know like leprechaun pendant.
IGN Ozzy
09-01-2014, 02:19 AM
Zeus vs Instanthumor
Grabs a seat and some popcorn..
LOL XD
Sent by the Prince of Darkness
i learned a lot things from this thread :)
Saribeau
09-01-2014, 06:39 PM
She is in leaderboard have some respect lol and even if you have 15% dodge you can still dodge attacks it dosent have to be more than 50% to dodge you know. If it is like 15% dodge then it depends on your luck you know like leprechaun pendant.
hahahahahaha lb means nothing. literally nothing. 0, none, zilch, zip, zero, na da.
Instanthumor
09-01-2014, 06:43 PM
hahahahahaha lb means nothing. literally nothing. 0, none, zilch, zip, zero, na da.
All you need is a few flags, right? Lol