Curse - clarifications please

[Instanthumor]

It has come to me that Curse is an interesting skill how it was set up. I would like some clarifications from any dev to explain the role of Curse and what it really does - in depth.

It seems that different skills reflect different percentages of damage. Skills like Frost (without DoT), Lightning, Nox Bolt (without DoT) reflect ~40% dmg, while Fireball (without DoT) reflects ~60% dmg, and Shadow Pierce, Aimed Shot reflects ~5-15% dmg.

As far as skills that do DoT (damage over time), Timeshift does ~1000% dmg reflected, Nox bolt does ~200-400% dmg reflected. What seemed weird was that when the opposing mage (that used Curse) put on shield, the dmg reflected by curse seemed to multiply by 2 thus reflected 2000% dmg on Timeshift, which shouldn't be right because when shield is activated, you're supposed to take less damage so the damage reflected should be less.

And when you cast Curse on the opponent, the red debuff armor symbol showed up, yet it doesn't seem to debuff your armor. I remember it meant that the damage reflected from Curse ignored armor? It also seems like DoT attacks and attacks that are very quick to each other (like the maul proc or the extra hits on Lightning) also deal extra reflected damage.

It would be nice to hear from someone who can explain the mechanics behind Curse since all these numbers seem so wrong. Thank you.

[Kreasadriii]

Nice question (y) (y)
it happens a lot, get curse and use timeshift, instant kill -_-
Even the aimed that did high crit doesn't get instant kill.

[Instanthumor]

Nice question (y) (y)
it happens a lot, get curse and use timeshift, instant kill -_-
Even the aimed that did high crit doesn't get instant kill.

This is very true. When I use Timeshift while cursed, I die in 1-2 seconds. But when a rogue hits a 4k critical hit aimed shot, it only reflects about 5% of their HP which is barely noticable at all.

[Caabatric]

This is very true. When I use Timeshift while cursed, I die in 1-2 seconds. But when a rogue hits a 4k critical hit aimed shot, it only reflects about 5% of their HP which is barely noticable at all.
well i used to think that when someone was cursed and they attack you with any attack they lose the amount of dmg you deliver. So if you have 500dmg and a rogue aim shots you thepy will take 500 dmg. If you get hit with timeshift every time you are hit (dmg over time) yourr cursed opponent will take your dmg amount 500.
This is how it seems to work though ill preform a test on it.

[Instanthumor]

well i used to think that when someone was cursed and they attack you with any attack they lose the amount of dmg you deliver. So if you have 500dmg and a rogue aim shots you thepy will take 500 dmg. If you get hit with timeshift every time you are hit (dmg over time) yourr cursed opponent will take your dmg amount 500.
This is how it seems to work though ill preform a test on it.

That's not how it works. Curse reflects a certain percentage of the damage taken. Though the question here is why are those percentages different for different skills.

[Haligali]

This is very true. When I use Timeshift while cursed, I die in 1-2 seconds. But when a rogue hits a 4k critical hit aimed shot, it only reflects about 5% of their HP which is barely noticable at all.

I think we need to test timeshift without countdown of pain.

Just a reminder, this was the last dev clarification about curse


Curse takes the targets damage, not the damage output of the ability that he just used, but his damage (base damage plus stat increases from equipment etc), multiplies that by another number, depending on if you charged the ability, what upgrades you have etc and then every time the enemy that's cursed uses any ability (including base attack), he takes that number in damage. It also ignores armor.

Since it scales with the enemies damage, it should definitely scale as they grow in levels. My numbers on it might have been a bit low for a first pass though so I'll probably buff it a bit. I have to be careful though because remember that monsters won't stop attacking, like players might, so it can do a lot of damage to them really fast if they are hard hitting enemies with a high attack speed.

'high attack speed' i think thats what we see on countdown of pain, low dot but very fast so that why curse reflects back insane.

'hard hitting enemies' that should be the maul proc, mauler warriors got high damage on stat screen and curse based on this i belive "Curse takes the targets damage, not the damage output of the ability that he just used, but his damage (base damage plus stat increases from equipment etc)" but then should be reflect aimed shot also more, not just around ~10%

[Instanthumor]

'high attack speed' i think thats what we see on countdown of pain, low dot but very fast so that why curse reflects back insane.

'hard hitting enemies' that should be the maul proc, mauler warriors got high damage on stat screen and curse based on this i belive "Curse takes the targets damage, not the damage output of the ability that he just used, but his damage (base damage plus stat increases from equipment etc)" but then should be reflect aimed shot also more, not just 10%

So another question would be, why does DoT have way higher damage reflected than normal non-DoT attacks? Although they the DoT from Timeshift does hit at a very high speed, it's barely anything compared to a 4k crit from aimed shot. Yet the DoT kills ridiculously faster and reflects more than the aimed shot.

[Haligali]

So another question would be, why does DoT have way higher damage reflected than normal non-DoT attacks? Although they the DoT from Timeshift does hit at a very high speed, it's barely anything compared to a 4k crit from aimed shot. Yet the DoT kills ridiculously faster and reflects more than the aimed shot.

It seems that speed is the most important component of the calculation. You remember yesterday we tested on a rogue who got rising death subskill on his shadow pierce, curse took his half hp while he do much less damage on me.

[Haligali]

Hm


*Also, if a sorc makes a rogue in PvP cursed, will a critted aim shot kill the rogue instantly? I'm confused :p

No, the Rogue will take the same amount of damage from Curse as if they had just used their basic attack. It's not dependent on how much damage they (the Rogue) actually did.

We have to think about curse in another point of view. Ignores armor and based on the targets damage, not the damage output, so its more of a pressure on warriors in clashes, instead of rogue liquidating skill.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Good food for thought, also - is curse target specific? Does it reflect only if the attacks of the cursed opponent hits the mage and not a teammate/Trulle etc?

[Haligali]

Good food for thought, also - is curse target specific? Does it reflect only if the attacks of the cursed opponent hits the mage and not a teammate/Trulle etc?

Yes, so a high hp is recommended for a curse type build.

I think we all wrong, curse does NOT reflect back damage.


No, the Rogue will take the same amount of damage from Curse as if they had just used their basic attack. It's not dependent on how much damage they (the Rogue) actually did.

So the target will TAKE damage based on his damage stat, not depended what damage he did. He will take the same damage after a -10 dot or after a -2000 aim shot.

[Kreasadriii]

Did anyone ever experiences this in PvP:

You put a Tiemshift to your rogue enemy, he is under your Timeshift and stuck there.
Then a mage (enemy) came to you and curse you while your Timeshift still did DoT to the rogue?

Q1: Curse still work and did much damage even after you put your Timeshift 5 seconds ago? (only the DoT then, right? Didn't get the first damage while Timeshift dropped)
Q2: If DoT did much damage as my Q1, it could make ice and fireball give more damage while you get curse? (1 Timeshift do more damage than 2 skills combo such as Ice & Fire then?)
Q3: Ice & Fire have DoT too, is it not equal to 1 DoT from Timeshift?

[Instanthumor]

Yes, so a high hp is recommended for a curse type build.


Why would high HP be recommended? According to Swede, the damage taken from Curse depends on your (the curser's) base damage, so by adding more STR points, you lose more dmg thus making the damage output from Curse less?


Did anyone ever experiences this in PvP:

You put a Tiemshift to your rogue enemy, he is under your Timeshift and stuck there.
Then a mage (enemy) came to you and curse you while your Timeshift still did DoT to the rogue?

Q1: Curse still work and did much damage even after you put your Timeshift 5 seconds ago? (only the DoT then, right? Didn't get the first damage while Timeshift dropped)
Q2: If DoT did much damage as my Q1, it could make ice and fireball give more damage while you get curse? (1 Timeshift do more damage than 2 skills combo such as Ice & Fire then?)
Q3: Ice & Fire have DoT too, is it not equal to 1 DoT from Timeshift?

From what Hali and Swede is saying, is that since the DoT from Timeshift is very rapid (extremely rapid), it seems to cause more damage than slow DoT from Frost or Fireball for example.

[Haligali]

Why would high HP be recommended? According to Swede, the damage taken from Curse depends on your (the curser's) base damage, so by adding more STR points, you lose more dmg thus making the damage output from Curse less?

Because if you want your curse to do lot damage, you need to take damage also from his attacks. Its better to have lot without the risk of dying.

No, the damage depends on the targets damage, read that comment again.

"Curse takes the targets damage, not the damage output of the ability that he just used"

So if you use high HP build with low damage thats even better against curse.

[Haligali]

From what Hali and Swede is saying, is that since the DoT from Timeshift is very rapid (extremely rapid), it seems to cause more damage than slow DoT from Frost or Fireball for example.

Yes and your curse takes damage after every attack, every -10 dot from the countdown of pain he will take damage after his base damage.

What im trying to say, we were all wrong, curse does not reflect back damage(the 'reflect' word doesnt appear in skill description, nor in developer comments) , curse will do the same amount of damage after every attack, doesnt matter if its -10, -30, -40 dot or a - 2000 aimed shot.

[Instanthumor]

Yes and your curse takes damage after every attack, every -10 dot from the countdown of pain he will take damage after his base damage.

What im trying to say, we were all wrong, curse does not reflect back damage(the 'reflect' word doesnt appear in skill description, nor in developer comments) , curse will do the same amount of damage after every attack, doesnt matter if its -10, -30, -40 dot or a - 2000 aimed shot.

So why does the damage differ from each skill? Remember we tested some skills dealt more damage than others?

[Haligali]

So why does the damage differ from each skill? Remember we tested some skills dealt more damage than others?

Huh did we switched gear meanwhile i dont remember. Need few test more, i wanna test combos too.

[Instanthumor]

Huh did we switched gear meanwhile i dont remember. Need few test more, i wanna test combos too.

Remember Lightning and Frost did about 40%, while Fireball did 60%, and Aimed Shot and Shadow Pierce did 5-15%?

[Haligali]

Remember Lightning and Frost did about 40%, while Fireball did 60%, and Aimed Shot and Shadow Pierce did 5-15%?

Yes and curse damage was it always in the same range?

[Instanthumor]

Yes and curse damage was it always in the same range?

No, different skills dished out different amounts of damage. Or at least that's what we tested.

[Haligali]

No, different skills dished out different amounts of damage. Or at least that's what we tested.

I mean the curse damage was in the same range?

If not, then its something wrong in the developer comments, or at least what i understood of them.

[Instanthumor]

I mean the curse damage was in the same range?

I don't remember ohhhhhhhhhhhh gg I see where you're getting at, but I forget.

[Instanthumor]

But that would make sense, since Fireball is the weaker skill, it "reflected" 60%. Lightning and Frost, stronger skill, "reflected" 40%. And Aimed Shot reflected ~5%. Makes sense now.

[Haligali]

There's a post somewhere from one of the mods which explains how curse damage is calculated. I will look for it. Stay tuned

You meant that quote in the 6th post here? Or is it a better clarification somewhere with numbers?

[Haligali]

I swear I read something some time ago but I can't find it anywhere and I searched for a good amount of time. I'll search some more later

Keep it up, or i hope a dev read this thread that would be more better :)

[Saribeau]

Keep it up, or i hope a dev read this thread that would be even better :)

sorry had to do it.. haha

i love this thread, but i feel that curse should reflect a percentage of dmg taken, same percentage for every attack/skill. that would put mages back in competition, at least twink wise.

[Haligali]

sorry had to do it.. haha

i love this thread, but i feel that curse should reflect a percentage of dmg taken, same percentage for every attack/skill. that would put mages back in competition, at least twink wise.

Then it would be useless vs dot damage since dot damages are low. Also rogues will start to rage because they would die instantly after the first aim shot.

I think curse is good on low lvls too where a lot warrior with high armor - curse ignores armor - and high damage running around. I got a lvl7 warrior and curse really hurts. Ofc its just in clashes, no chance on 1-1.

[Madnex]

Just to add two more interesting facts I observed but have yet to explain:
-If the damage is blocked by invulnerability, there is no damage reflect at all.
-Weirdly enough though, if you fire around at walls or nothingness (while cursed), it does reflect.

[Instanthumor]

-Weirdly enough though, if you fire around at walls or nothingness (while cursed), it does reflect.

Hilarious

[Madnex]

"Take this, wall!"
-Deceased smurf


Get on and let's solve this. ^

[Instanthumor]

These developers... Are so... Not... With... Us...

[Visiting]

Noob question, what happens when you curse another curse user at the same time?

[Instanthumor]

Noob question, what happens when you curse another curse user at the same time?

I'm guessing it'll just work the same for both sides? Idk ask Madnexnab he knows everything.

[Madnex]

Noob question, what happens when you curse another curse user at the same time?
Your moods will get cartoon-cloudy.

[Gorecaster]

Ran a couple maps with a curse mage today. Lol but it works in pve better than I thought it would. Arachna cursed nicely as did mobs. Js

[Haligali]

Ran a couple maps with a curse mage today. Lol but it works in pve better than I thought it would. Arachna cursed nicely as did mobs. Js

Yes its good against specific bosses with heavy poison dot like rutger and arachna, but i still belive in that mobs need to be stunned rooted and frozen if can.

I also dont like high HP build in pve.

[Kreasadriii]

Yes, if we get curse and performed an attack, we didn't received any damage right? while we hit nothing?
Do we received damage when get curse even the enemies that curse us already dead? (in case we didn't hitted by DoT skills upgrade)

[Kreasadriii]

You will still receive damage from curse even if the player who cursed you is dead. The same goes for DoT skills where you'll continue to receive damage after you've killed your opponent.

I mean when our opponent didn't spell us with DoT skills upgrade. No enemies anymore.
The curse still reduce our health when we performed an attack even the enemies already dead?
and it happened when we performed an attack to none?

[Instanthumor]

I mean when our opponent didn't spell us with DoT skills upgrade. No enemies anymore.
The curse still reduce our health when we performed an attack even the enemies already dead?
and it happened when we performed an attack to none?

According to Madnex, that is correct.

[Madnex]

It doesn't make sense but that's what I have observed. I don't currently have curse on my mage so it might take a while to verify it.

[Energizeric]

From the quotes from the developer, it seems that each tick of any DoT skill is counted as a separate attack, and the cursed player gets hit for the amount of their damage stat.

This is good to know and now explains why I feel like such a noob when I use curse and when I get cursed. I was doing it all wrong. Thanks for the clarification! :)

[Caabatric]

I still want a dev post to verify.

[Haligali]

So the first upgrade on curse (lowers the target damage output by 10%) is indeed useful. Not sure if it stacks with rogues 10% dmg nerf in ctf.

[Lidless]

Curse doesnt reflect anything!!! Ive spent a lot of time testing curse trying to figure out how it works. Its simply based on the mages damage and the mitigation of the person cursed. Each successful attack that causes damage will cause curse damage equivellant to the mages dmg. Simple!

[Lidless]

The only thing id like clarified is the fact that sometimes in a clash you will die almost instantly even when not attacking. Like both mages kill eachother instantly. Im not sure why this happens but ill receive a flurry of curse dmg even tho im just standing there..

I have a theory that a warriors VB might be the cause. Im not sure though..this is the one thing i havent tested yet.

My twink mage name is Synergic lvl 13.

[Instanthumor]

The only thing id like clarified is the fact that sometimes in a clash you will die almost instantly even when not attacking. Like both mages kill eachother instantly. Im not sure why this happens but ill receive a flurry of curse dmg even tho im just standing there..

I have a theory that a warriors VB might be the cause. Im not sure though..this is the one thing i havent tested yet.

My twink mage name is Synergic lvl 13.

I'm not sure what might be the cause, but I know if you have a nuke build (with all DoT upgrades), you're bound to get smashed by Curse.

[Lidless]

Nah man my mage is full elondrian grand gear and i use shield heal curse and 1 point in time clock for pure clash. I do not attack at all and sometimescurse will instagib me when im in a clash.

[Haligali]

Curse doesnt reflect anything!!! Ive spent a lot of time testing curse trying to figure out how it works. Its simply based on the mages damage and the mitigation of the person cursed. Each successful attack that causes damage will cause curse damage equivellant to the mages dmg. Simple!

Thats wrong, the curse takes damage based on the targets damage, not the mage damage. That why its only ~10% of a rogue aimed shot because rogues got low damage due to the 10% damage nerf on them.

[Caabatric]

Nah man my mage is full elondrian grand gear and i use shield heal curse and 1 point in time clock for pure clash. I do not attack at all and sometimescurse will instagib me when im in a clash.

Maybe you accidentally put down time..

[Haligali]

Good food for thought, also - is curse target specific? Does it reflect only if the attacks of the cursed opponent hits the mage and not a teammate/Trulle etc?

Heh i noticed yesterday that my curse do damage when the cursed didnt hit me, but my teammate. So using aoe based skills, fireball(even without dot), timeshift, nox(this is the worst, aoe based skill with low damage and dot without unlocked subskill) maul proc more dangerous if you got cursed.

[Linkincena]

Purpose of curse is also to penetrate armor completely ignoring it...

[Psycthe]

So basically CURSE = every atk = dmg on atker. Even if the CASTER of CURSE is not the target.

This debate will be closed once there is a free respec weekend. haha

[LibertyBells (Jasper)]

How does curse fare with the rest of your team? With the armor debuff, does that apply to your team as well or is that solely just for you?

And the post from Hali; has anyone tested the theory behind higher health being best for a curse build?

[TheFallenBear]

The Curse Skill Is Intended To Work As : BASE DMG+REFLECTED DAMAGE(15 PERCENT) And As For Time Shift... If An Enemy Under Curse Uses It.....He Himself Would Be Wishing Death... LOL