Poll - who to boot: freeloaders or ppl who aren't being nice.

[pizzaman]

Party of five fightinh OL. Mage A didn't pot, even after being asked several times. He (or she) only runs in every now and then to rev dead players. And runs in just before OL dies to get the drops. He doesn't heal much, so other players have to spend more health potions on staying alive.

Mage B is annoyed and calls mage A a wuss. Who do you boot?


tldr; A doesn't pot for OL. B calls A a wuss. Who do you boot?

A, freeloaders are annoying (http://www.gfxpoll.nl/poll.php?vote=193601)

A, just before OL dies *grin* (http://www.gfxpoll.nl/poll.php?vote=193602)

B, people should always be nice (http://www.gfxpoll.nl/poll.php?vote=193603)

B, but only if A was a friend (http://www.gfxpoll.nl/poll.php?vote=193604)

both (http://www.gfxpoll.nl/poll.php?vote=193605)

neither, but i tell B to tone down (http://www.gfxpoll.nl/poll.php?vote=193606)



Results:
http://www.gfxpoll.nl/poll.php?id=41622


PS to the ppl of spacetime: i hope you don't mind me making a poll this way. I hope you allow polling on this forum soon!

[pizzaman]

I'd personally even de-friend A. One exception is, if A warned up front that he wasn't going to pot and asked if that was ok.

[matta1985]

Well me personally I would boot the player the second they refuse to pot up... If everyone else in game pots up it's only fair. Especially if the mage is sitting out waiting for OL to be nearly dead and then rush in to get drops... Not potting up and not helping with a boss annoys me. Especially when the player that hasn't potted up dies and is spamming rez me 100 times... Mind you i have been leeching a little lately lvling up my new twink :P But that's only with friends, i wouldn't do it in any other open games.

[Zipponator]

Mage B isnt mean , just think about it. He/ she potted and spent their money to be faithful and help the team out while this other person has no consideration for others and just lets you do the work and get the rewards and doesnt apologise. Mage B was fine and good on him.

[Hekpoc]

Boot player A... Calling someone a Wuss is NOT being rude it's actually good conditioning for the soul oh thus said Wuss. Maybe next time he will take part in helping. Prob a mynas gen. Gahhh I hate those lvl 10 50s walking around wanting the best stuff... They wouldn't know what to do with it if they had it. And 'wuss' is not a bad word I've got a plethora of adjectives to describe those wusses.

[davidis57]

I get annoyed by players going AFK while others fight, trading while others fight, messaging me while I am trying to kill mobs, standing idle at the entrance, calling for rev and than going AFK, leeching xp or items and not killing anything. Just to name a few.

[Lesrider]

Boot A. And give mage B a reward for not calling A worse things. It's hard To be the only Mage in a party -- if there's another one, you expect the job to be a lot easier.

[Conradin]

God- what has this forum turned into. -btw how did u make a poll?

[StompArtist]

Don't boot anyone and just leave. :D

[FluffNStuff]

So you want to boot your safety net? Seems dangerous.

[Ava]

Can't you guys just learn to play nice ?

State your intent about potting BEFORE you start the run.

I hate it when people DEMAND that I pot up using MY own gold AFTER I cleared the trash mop. If you are so good, you won't need to pot.

Pots are for wimps and players who are not confident, when they arn't popeye the sailor man and his spinach.

So, kindly let me know I am in wimp town, I will graciously leave.

[Lesrider]

Can't you guys just learn to play nice ?

State your intent about potting BEFORE you start the run.

I hate it when people DEMAND that I pot up using MY own gold AFTER I cleared the trash mop. If you are so good, you won't need to pot.

Pots are for wimps and players who are not confident, when they arn't popeye the sailor man and his spinach.

So, kindly let me know I am in wimp town, I will graciously leave.

Most people pot for OL at the portal entrance. So there are no trash mobs to clear. Telling everyone to pot up at that point is notice enough. Many people ignore you completely. It's obnoxious and rude to join someone's game and not even have the decency when they ask everyone to pot, to ask them if it's ok for you not to. Or leave. Or get booted. Nothing more annoying than people joining another's game and ignoring them.

[StompArtist]

Oh no! The pot thread oozed out in this one.

[Ava]

Most people pot for OL at the portal entrance. So there are no trash mobs to clear. Telling everyone to pot up at that point is notice enough. Many people ignore you completely. It's obnoxious and rude to join someone's game and not even have the decency when they ask everyone to pot, to ask them if it's ok for you not to. Or leave. Or get booted. Nothing more annoying than people joining another's game and ignoring them.

Sure, proceed with the boot when you've made your intention clear, and well in advance , yet they choose to ignore you. There should be some proper ethics even in virtual games.

[matta1985]

Well not everyone is good at rushing to ol without pots, I have no trouble getting there without tank pot, I just spam health pots. But it's annoying when you ask people to use a tank pot and they don't, then die on the way to ol or while fighting him, then spam rev me 100 times... All of the people I Play with use tank pot so I do the same to keep things fair, plus it makes it even more easier... This is why I only do runs with friends now to avoid any drama...

[pizzaman]

Lovely discussion so far. And an important one too, i think.


I get annoyed by players going AFK while others fight, trading while others fight, messaging me while I am trying to kill mobs, standing idle at the entrance, calling for rev and than going AFK, leeching xp or items and not killing anything. Just to name a few.

People going afk might have all kinds of reasons. Sometimes you just have to go to the toilet or answer the phone or the doorbell. I think these people wont often be offended if they get booted. Not potting up, on the other hand, is something you do intentional, so a degree worse in my opinion.



God- what has this forum turned into. -btw how did u make a poll?

I used an external website, with links to the different vote options. It generates an image of the current vote results.

[Ricey]

Mage B has a point, if people aren't pulling their weight they need to be told. That said, I've never done OL (I assume you're talking about the Galactic Overlord?) so I dunno if I'd kick a freeloader there.. in normal levelling when a freeloader comes along, are they stealing XP from you? Or is it only drops?

[Kujen]

They don't really steal anything because you would get the same xp or drops regardless. But they're not pullin their weight and are taking up a spot that could be used by someone who would actually help.

[Moogerfooger]

Sure, proceed with the boot when you've made your intention clear, and well in advance , yet they choose to ignore you. There should be some proper ethics even in virtual games.


I'm sorry, if you join my game that I'm hosting, and I say pot, regardless of when or where, then it is my call as the host. I am not going to stop fighting every single time a player leaves or joins and say, "Old boy, just so your possibly delicate feelings and/or wallet may not take a solid beating later, I do declare that there is a distinct possibilty that I may insist upon party members partaking of Ye Olde Tank Pot when and if we do arrive in good health at the foyer of Sir Galactic Overlord, especially if he is in a particularly nasty mood because that silly Alien Sniper made off with his Barry Manilow record collection again".

If a player doesn't like having to pot at some point, in theory they can either leave (therefore not costing them anything), or suffer the consequences of probably dying on OL (since we seem to be talking about OL)....and if that happens, that is life, and don't sit there and go revrevrevrevrev while OL is blasting away.

With that said, I very very very rarely boot anyone as long as they are trying or have some idea of what to do, pots or not. But if I join a game where the host says pot at any time, since I am a guest in his game I will shut up and pot, whether I want to or not. THAT is proper ethics, imho.

[pizzaman]

I'm sorry, if you join my game that I'm hosting, and I say pot, regardless of when or where, then it is my call as the host. I am not going to stop fighting every single time a player leaves or joins and say, "Old boy, just so your possibly delicate feelings and/or wallet may not take a solid beating later, I do declare that there is a distinct possibilty that I may insist upon party members partaking of Ye Olde Tank Pot when and if we do arrive in good health at the foyer of Sir Galactic Overlord, especially if he is in a particularly nasty mood because that silly Alien Sniper made off with his Barry Manilow record collection again".

I lolled in a place where i was supposed to be quiet...

[BlazeMystic]

I'd have to make sure that mage A definitely knows what "pot up" actually means before considering booting. I remember ages ago when I first ventured in AO3 when the group leader told everyone to pot up and I had no idea what that meant so I just said that I didn't have any pots. I got told off for being a cheapskate. I should have just asked what they meant anyway, but I had no idea that you could purchase pots while in a dungeon. I guess I'm a bit thick as I missed out on all the leveling up pots as well! lol.

[Ava]

I'm sorry, if you join my game that I'm hosting, and I say pot, regardless of when or where, then it is my call as the host. I am not going to stop fighting every single time a player leaves or joins and say, "Old boy, just so your possibly delicate feelings and/or wallet may not take a solid beating later, I do declare that there is a distinct possibilty that I may insist upon party members partaking of Ye Olde Tank Pot when and if we do arrive in good health at the foyer of Sir Galactic Overlord, especially if he is in a particularly nasty mood because that silly Alien Sniper made off with his Barry Manilow record collection again".

If a player doesn't like having to pot at some point, in theory they can either leave (therefore not costing them anything), or suffer the consequences of probably dying on OL (since we seem to be talking about OL)....and if that happens, that is life, and don't sit there and go revrevrevrevrev while OL is blasting away.

With that said, I very very very rarely boot anyone as long as they are trying or have some idea of what to do, pots or not. But if I join a game where the host says pot at any time, since I am a guest in his game I will shut up and pot, whether I want to or not. THAT is proper ethics, imho.

Since it is YOUR game, and players joined YOUR game to finish YOUR game. Then you should be prepared to PAY the players gold, to buy pots, to help YOU finish YOUR game. Right ? After all, they are doing YOU a favor. Not the other way round.

[Lesrider]

Since it is YOUR game, and players joined YOUR game to finish YOUR game. Then you should be prepared to PAY the players gold, to buy pots, to help YOU finish YOUR game. Right ? After all, they are doing YOU a favor. Not the other way round.

This high and mighty attitude of yours is really getting old.

[Ava]

This high and mighty attitude of yours is really getting old.

I love you too.

[matta1985]

Since it is YOUR game, and players joined YOUR game to finish YOUR game. Then you should be prepared to PAY the players gold, to buy pots, to help YOU finish YOUR game. Right ? After all, they are doing YOU a favor. Not the other way round.

I agree with Lesrider, it's getting old... It's not about "finishing" the makers game... The main reason VL games are made are for farming purposes, not to clear out the whole lvl and finish it, (unless people are trying to make dark cave portal spawn.) So why would you pay the players in the game to buy tank pots? They are all there for the purpose of looting high end items so they can either sell/use or whatever they wish to do with them? They aren't doing the maker of the game a favor, they are doing themselves a favor by increasing their chance of survival, therefore increasing their chance of getting some good loot! What's your ign Ava??

[Liathea]

I'd have to make sure that mage A definitely knows what "pot up" actually means before considering booting. I remember ages ago when I first ventured in AO3 when the group leader told everyone to pot up and I had no idea what that meant so I just said that I didn't have any pots. I got told off for being a cheapskate. I should have just asked what they meant anyway, but I had no idea that you could purchase pots while in a dungeon.

This is such a good point.

On topic: Mage A sucks. ._.

[Ava]

I agree with Lesrider, it's getting old... It's not about "finishing" the makers game... The main reason VL games are made are for farming purposes, not to clear out the whole lvl and finish it, (unless people are trying to make dark cave portal spawn.) So why would you pay the players in the game to buy tank pots? They are all there for the purpose of looting high end items so they can either sell/use or whatever they wish to do with them? They aren't doing the maker of the game a favor, they are doing themselves a favor by increasing their chance of survival, therefore increasing their chance of getting some good loot! What's your ign Ava??

Yah I agree, accepting rudeness from players IS getting old. Now if you don't mind, my reply was for Moogerbooger. His "My game, MY rules" is like yo daddy sayin " MY house, MY rules!" to ya when you ain't behaving like he wants you to. That kid has "control issues" .

To CLEAR VL or farm, I never had to POT. Unless we are all in a rush. But heck no, I'd take it nice and easy...eventually we will clear it, or kill the boss we wanna kill. Like PL is gonna run away or sumthin, ya know ?

And no, when I invite GUESTS to MY house, I am the HOST. NO, I DO NOT demand my GUESTS clean my toilet nor pay for their food and drinks so we can make merry. Social ethiques everyone !!!

I don't know bout you guys, but maybe that's what YOU expect from YOUR guests.. I sure don't wanna be there.

HOWEVER.. if the HOST lets me know before I step foot in there, that I am EXPECTED to pitch in, I can still decide if I wanna be part of the game plan. If I wanna, I pot, if I don't wanna, I leave. But for the HOST to DEMAND I play by his rules, sorry dude, I've got a life out there, so have fun playing house.

As for my IGN, don't worry, you are not on my friend list. But I do hope ya'll have some good manners and not go around DEMANDING other players. Play nice ya ?

Edit: Purpose of farming good loot you say ? This I wanna laugh so hard... now how is that profitable to have to spend minimum of 1500 gold to farm for something that's not even guaranteed ? That's hardly profitable dude. You'll be running a loss in the long run... ECONS/FINANCE 101. Glad I went to school......

[Lesrider]

Yah I agree, accepting rudeness from players IS getting old. Now if you don't mind, my reply was for Moogerbooger. His "My game, MY rules" is like yo daddy sayin " MY house, MY rules!" to ya when you ain't behaving like he wants you to. That kid has "control issues" .

To CLEAR VL or farm, I never had to POT. Unless we are all in a rush. But heck no, I'd take it nice and easy...eventually we will clear it, or kill the boss we wanna kill. Like PL is gonna run away or sumthin, ya know ?

And no, when I invite GUESTS to MY house, I am the HOST. NO, I DO NOT demand my GUESTS clean my toilet nor pay for their food and drinks so we can make merry. Social ethiques everyone !!!

I don't know bout you guys, but maybe that's what YOU expect from YOUR guests.. I sure don't wanna be there.

HOWEVER.. if the HOST lets me know before I step foot in there, that I am EXPECTED to pitch in, I can still decide if I wanna be part of the game plan. If I wanna, I pot, if I don't wanna, I leave. But for the HOST to DEMAND I play by his rules, sorry dude, I've got a life out there, so have fun playing house.

As for my IGN, don't worry, you are not on my friend list. But I do hope ya'll have some good manners and not go around DEMANDING other players. Play nice ya ?

Lol the more you talk, the more absurd it gets.

You're equating a hosted game to having friends over at your home? Really????

Ok, fine, if you're going to stick with that analogy.
How would you react to strangers dropping by your house? Or friends of friends coming by uninvited? You might not make them clean your home for you (why is that the analogy for potting up? Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it's like chipping in for food if there is some -- that is not unheard of.).
If you invite friends over to your home, they would usually know what the plans for the evening are and what is expected of them. So there would be little room for misunderstanding. They could bring a gift if they feel it is appropriate. Or maybe you told them not to bring anything.
But if people drop by uninvited and try to run the show themselves, that is very rude indeed, and I think they should be kicked to the curb.

There, I took your absurd analogy and still proved you wrong.

[Ava]

Lol the more you talk, the more absurd it gets.

You're equating a hosted game to having friends over at your home? Really????

Ok, fine, if you're going to stick with that analogy.
How would you react to strangers dropping by your house? Or friends of friends coming by uninvited? You might not make them clean your home for you (why is that the analogy for potting up? Doesn't make any sense. Maybe it's like chipping in for food if there is some -- that is not unheard of.).
If you invite friends over to your home, they would usually know what the plans for the evening are and what is expected of them. So there would be little room for misunderstanding. They could bring a gift if they feel it is appropriate. Or maybe you told them not to bring anything.
But if people drop by uninvited and try to run the show themselves, that is very rude indeed, and I think they should be kicked to the curb.

There, I took your absurd analogy and still proved you wrong.

Hmmm.. you do have a point Les. So far, drop-in players are always kind enough to ask me if they may stay. If they don't, I let them know what's the game plan whenever I see one pop in. That's not too hard is it?

You know you CAN edit those pre-set messages. Use em. " Mandatory POT UP".

[Lesrider]

Hmmm.. you do have a point Les. So far, drop-in players are always kind enough to ask me if they may stay. If they don't, I let them know what's the game plan whenever I see one pop in. That's not too hard is it?

You know you CAN edit those pre-set messages. Use em. " Mandatory POT UP".

Whew, finally! I thought we'd be arguing for the next three lifetimes.

Problem is, there are only 4 of those messages. And "mandatory pot up" doesn't really explain much, if it's said at the wrong time. But everyone standing at the OL portal saying "pot up" and downing tank elixirs should be enough for someone. If they don't want to pot, they should ask if it's ok or leave (hopefully before everyone else started potting up). Like I said before, ignoring the host and doing as you please is rude and deserves a boot.
If we're talking about this specific incident, the Mage did have notice, and decided to do their own thing.

Unfortunately, even friends of friends can be rude and inconsiderate. I really hope one of the future updates includes real locked games that require a password or an invite.

[matta1985]

Edit: Purpose of farming good loot you say ? This I wanna laugh so hard... now how is that profitable to have to spend minimum of 1500 gold to farm for something that's not even guaranteed ? That's hardly profitable dude. You'll be running a loss in the long run... ECONS/FINANCE 101. Glad I went to school......

Les covered pretty much what i wanted to say before, so i won't repeat what has been said... But i don't demand players to pot up, i ask them nicely to pot, and 99% of the time people do. I rarely ever host anyway, so i don't have to kick. But your above statement about running at a loss in the long run? I don't understand, i've made heaps of gold, got best gear for my pally, and still making lots of gold regardless of buying pots... So how am i running at a loss in the long run when i continue to turn over a good amount of gold a day while still buying pots??

[Lesrider]

Les covered pretty much what i wanted to say before, so i won't repeat what has been said... But i don't demand players to pot up, i ask them nicely to pot, and 99% of the time people do. I rarely ever host anyway, so i don't have to kick. But your above statement about running at a loss in the long run? I don't understand, i've made heaps of gold, got best gear for my pally, and still making lots of gold regardless of buying pots... So how am i running at a loss in the long run when i continue to turn over a good amount of gold a day while still buying pots??

Sounds like Ava hasn't played with a good farming team.

[Ava]

Les covered pretty much what i wanted to say before, so i won't repeat what has been said... But i don't demand players to pot up, i ask them nicely to pot, and 99% of the time people do. I rarely ever host anyway, so i don't have to kick. But your above statement about running at a loss in the long run? I don't understand, i've made heaps of gold, got best gear for my pally, and still making lots of gold regardless of buying pots... So how am i running at a loss in the long run when i continue to turn over a good amount of gold a day while still buying pots??

Really ? Whats the numbers like ? Numbers don't lie.

Run a trip in VL and let me know how much gold you collect.
Then calculate how much you DO earn from selling the first PINK you drop selling in the Auction.
Let me know how MANY TIMES you had to run before your FIRST pink.
We all know the TOTAL COST of those pots until you get your PINK. Include also your health and mana pots used.

You can't put a profit or loss on items you KEEP for your own toon to use. Unless you wanna calculate how much you SAVED by farming instead of buying one.

OK? Now I will be back later tonight or tomorrow morning.
If you have the numbers, we'll talk.

[matta1985]

Sounds like Ava hasn't played with a good farming team.

Probably Les, and another reason why people pot up Ava is so they can rush, kill the bosses intended to be killed then move onto the next game. The quicker bosses are killed, the more games you can make, means the more money possibly earned. I've been in partys where we can wipe out plotholz,king,OL and gurg in no time at all. OL with a good team should take a min to a min half.

I don't want this to turn nasty i'm just saying what i have found to be most effective. Obviously some people farm diff to others, But while your going around clearing the area leading up to bosses, i've prob been in 3 runs of killing all those bosses mentioned and made a good profit...

[Pharcyde]

lol every post I go into Ava is flaming. Maybe Refried Rice had a daughter with his hot girlfriend... Maybe... *thinks to self*

http://viewyonder.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/confused-baby.bmp

[matta1985]

Really ? Whats the numbers like ? Numbers don't lie.

Run a trip in VL and let me know how much gold you collect.
Then calculate how much you DO earn from selling the first PINK you drop selling in the Auction.
Let me know how MANY TIMES you had to run before your FIRST pink.
We all know the TOTAL COST of those pots until you get your PINK. Include also your health and mana pots used.

You can't put a profit or loss on items you KEEP for your own toon to use. Unless you wanna calculate how much you SAVED by farming instead of buying one.

OK? Now I will be back later tonight or tomorrow morning.
If you have the numbers, we'll talk.

I can't be bothered going threw runs and crunching numbers Ava, As long as i see my bank balance going up, i don't really care?? Sure it would be more profitable doing runs without buying pots, but buying them makes the runs so much easier and more effective.

[matta1985]

lol every post I go into Ava is flaming. Maybe Refried Rice had a daughter with his hot girlfriend... Maybe... *thinks to self*

http://viewyonder.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/confused-baby.bmp

Lol made me laugh Pharcyde, Maybe it's Refried in disguise?? Continuing on his legacy of trolling :P

[Pharcyde]

Lol made me laugh Pharcyde, Maybe it's Refried in disguise?? Continuing on his legacy of trolling :P

nahhh... refried was at least a respectable troll. Ava is like... a real troll.

[matta1985]

nahhh... refried was at least a respectable troll. Ava is like... a real troll.

Yeah i have to give refried credit there i had no troubles with him :)

[Lesrider]

It's just that... Even when she agrees with you, she manages to still argue.
Like she refuses to end the discussion. Wants it to continue for some reason.

[matta1985]

I know, she doesn't like to let things go. Or she is the type of person that has to have the last say??

[pizzaman]

/offtopic


I'd have to make sure that mage A definitely knows what "pot up" actually means before considering booting. I remember ages ago when I first ventured in AO3 when the group leader told everyone to pot up and I had no idea what that meant so I just said that I didn't have any pots. I got told off for being a cheapskate. I should have just asked what they meant anyway, but I had no idea that you could purchase pots while in a dungeon. I guess I'm a bit thick as I missed out on all the leveling up pots as well! lol.

Good point. That's why i mentioned A was warned several times. After two or three warnings, i think A has had enough opportunity to ask what the host means.

[BeefyMeat]

Freeloaders, mean people won't slow me down and I can easily ignore them. Freeloaders just take up space.

[pizzaman]

In this case they also make use of the drops and totems/shards your team earned because everyone else potted up.

[Snub]

I hate when mages don't heal... boot his ***, hes not helping anyhow.

Learn to play or get lost.

As a bird i think i should go stand beside the lazy non helpful mage and wait it out, hell why not everyone go stand by him.