SnS PVP

[Remember Me]

As Arpuvial said, do not antagonize my thread...

I'm 100% sure opposing guilds with bash my thread so I'm gonna ask moderators to look out on this thread.

Most people sold SnS after the event because it was more of a defensive pet. You had to actually strategically use the circles and not camp on one. You had to actually think which position would make for maximum performance.

After this update I have literally been one hit by stacked purple circles. I'm a maxed rogue with a perfect arcane ring perfect elond bow and elond talis...

What people need to realize is that not every pet has to be a offensive pet... Before update SnS was pretty defensive, now tanks can do rogue DMG with SNS.. I would run VB, Jugg, HoR, and Rally cry if I had sns...

I have experienced the purple circles and they are pretty OP but I have also heard that that green circles are even more beneficial, do we even need tanks when a circle can heal so extensively?

I don't see how its fair for people who sold the pet as a defensive pet... I mean I would not be complaining about this pet if it was in locked crates and I just had to work my butt off to buy this pet, but IN FACT this pet is event EXCLUSIVE- Limited to a very few and is currently the best pet in AL for PvP...

Why didn't Whim get a offensive boost to it after many months of protested reform?

I still don't understand if these circle are working as designed but I would highly recommended a Dev to try to play with one in a CtF match where circles can stack....

Personally I don't think that it is good game mechanics for the best pet to be only attainable through a time machine, I believe the best gear should be able to achieved through hard work and not a exclusive club. (Event winner)



Thoughts?


Edit. The pet is great, yes owners will defend it and say its not the best pet. Obviously they don't want it nerfed because they are one of few people who actually own it.

The item mechanics of this pet are messed up, I don't believe that the best pet should be a limited edition pet..
Any Dev feedback?

[Speedofsound]

In endgame tanks are used for the shield and used for feebling/coverage from one combos...also sns is a very exclusive pet and isnt godlike. Avoid the stacked circles with ur eyesight and have your tanks learn how to adapt with coverage. Honestly its one less panic pet on the enemy team and it can be avoided. Ive clashed with sns numerous times now and i do not find it as good as you explain. I could agree with a tiny nerf in the damage output, but I wouldnt change the pet drastically. It sure is more powerful than samael in a clash, but any other situation its near useless, and in clash skill can prevail against it still.

[Zeus]

In endgame tanks are used for the shield and used for feebling/coverage from one combos...also sns is a very exclusive pet and isnt godlike. Avoid the stacked circles with ur eyesight and have your tanks learn how to adapt with coverage. Honestly its one less panic pet on the enemy team and it can be avoided. Ive clashed with sns numerous times now and i do not find it as good as you explain. I could agree with a tiny nerf in the damage output, but I wouldnt change the pet drastically. It sure is more powerful than samael in a clash, but any other situation its near useless, and in clash skill can prevail against it still.

This post. Samael is still king!

[Speedofsound]

This post. Samael is still king!
I could however see stacking 2 or more sns being way too OP. Not going to lie about this statement

[Zeus]

I could however see stacking 2 or more sns being way too OP. Not going to lie about this statement

Yes but this rarely happens. It's not like Samael where everybody and their mother has one so the clash becomes a panic fest.

[Instanthumor]

I think Whim Brothers should be buffed... For an EXCLUSIVE pet, they should be buffed... But that's just MY opinion

[Saribeau]

I think Whim Brothers should be buffed... For an EXCLUSIVE pet, they should be buffed... But that's just MY opinion

i fought a whim twink recently. lol@whim whim is the worst arcane pet by far

[Speedofsound]

i fought a whim twink recently. lol@whim whim is the worst arcane pet by far
Well yah for pvp, but the game isnt revolved around pvp.

[Jexetta]

The Shady and Surges are coming out of the woodwork though...

Last night I fought against 3 shady and surges... what an absolute joke. I felt like I was wearing a busted vest and wielding a rusty dagger and hiding behind my trusty pet Guapo.

The main issue I find is the best tactic is to hide or run backwards with no real counter pet ability wise. It's kinda like when Misty came out to counter curse (which I still wish the misty ability CD was the same as the curse skill CD) there is no other tactic except kinda hiding or standing on green - of course if you're standing on green and a rogue runs up to me without cover it's good game.

I really do like running around the pools and using tactics (which is soooooo much easier in TdM) but in the CTF arena it's really really hard.

Last night in CtF vs the 3 SnS we were literally running around in circles slowly backwards, around and around and around. If the ticks kill me in 3 or 4 that's roughly 1k a tick (I haven't tested if it's percentage based or how the damage is calculated) but add in any AoE damage from skyward smash, or fireball, and then add in a rogue snipe and it's incredibly easy to pick off opposing dps.

Most twinks if they saw the clashes at end game would be amazed - clashes can last like 30 seconds for a full party wipe or even less. If we equated this to board games I would compare end game pvp almost to tic tac toe - it's just one mistake and you're dead. And really - it does tilt the board even more so with a shady on the other side.

I pvp constantly, and it might rarely happen for you Zeus where you see 1 sns or 2 - and this isn't a personal attack - but anyone not in Karma, it happens almost every match we play vs Karma or their allies where their is at least 1 and (amazingly) 3 last night... Protect me Guapo!

[Remember Me]

The Shady and Surges are coming out of the woodwork though...

Last night I fought against 3 shady and surges... what an absolute joke. I felt like I was wearing a busted vest and wielding a rusty dagger and hiding behind my trusty pet Guapo.

The main issue I find is the best tactic is to hide or run backwards with no real counter pet ability wise. It's kinda like when Misty came out to counter curse (which I still wish the misty ability CD was the same as the curse skill CD) there is no other tactic except kinda hiding or standing on green - of course if you're standing on green and a rogue runs up to me without cover it's good game.

I really do like running around the pools and using tactics (which is soooooo much easier in TdM) but in the CTF arena it's really really hard.

Last night in CtF vs the 3 SnS we were literally running around in circles slowly backwards, around and around and around. If the ticks kill me in 3 or 4 that's roughly 1k a tick (I haven't tested if it's percentage based or how the damage is calculated) but add in any AoE damage from skyward smash, or fireball, and then add in a rogue snipe and it's incredibly easy to pick off opposing dps.

Most twinks if they saw the clashes at end game would be amazed - clashes can last like 30 seconds for a full party wipe or even less. If we equated this to board games I would compare end game pvp almost to tic tac toe - it's just one mistake and you're dead. And really - it does tilt the board even more so with a shady on the other side.

I pvp constantly, and it might rarely happen for you Zeus where you see 1 sns or 2 - and this isn't a personal attack - but anyone not in Karma, it happens almost every match we play vs Karma or their allies where their is at least 1 and (amazingly) 3 last night... Protect me Guapo!

I think the problem is that they spew out too many pools. Even if it only gave one pool each it would still equate to be better than Whim. PvE and PvP wise.

[Arry]

Firstly, ill agree those who have the pet will defend it, and those who don't have it will bash it, especially since such a small part of the community has it. Some people who won this pet during the event seemed more inclined to sell the pet quickly because of its high demand without waiting to see how it would preform. I think a lot of people underestimated the ability of Shady and Surge, and to be honest after the recent stat buff its received, its not much different. People who own it are just starting to learn how to use its ability better. With all new things that come in this game you have to learn to adapt to it, for example the new bulwark curse is a nightmare to mages..but there are still ways around it to kill them. Likewise with sns, you're not forced to stand in the pools of death and any rogue with ring and samael can still kill me with charged bow stun samaels panic and one aimed shot even if im standing in the healing pools. In fact ive been one hit by many ring rouges, theres nothing stopping a single player or team from walking away from the pools until the AA is gone or even kiting around the pools, you just have to learn to adapt. I've faced SnS in plenty of clashes too and there are ways to counter it, maybe some people aren't used to it enough yet and just want anything that stands in their way of winning to be nerfed. Rather than that, try coming up with a defensive plan while this 7-8 second ability is active. There are many major disadvantages to using shady and surge as well running solo or with a team.

When this pet was first announced Remiem made a small video introducing it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MXyqwYTsg , in which she stated yes this pet is supposed to be overpowered because of its limited amount and due to the nature of how its acquired. That being said, 50+ players spent 3 weeks of playing this Ursoths Assault event 12+ hours a day non-stop missing sleep, meals and real life just for this one pet (not to mention ridiculous amounts of gold/platinum spent on energy kits). I myself didnt participate in the event to the point where i was awarded a pet but im sure many can agree that it was an agonizing process. This pet was meant to exclusive and overpowered, plain and simple.

[Zeus]

I would like to request that those that are rooting for a nerf to please not exaggerate, thank you. If needed, I can post a video to show how untrue the exaggerations are.

Exaggerations:

- wearing a busted vest, rusted dagger, and guapo
- 1k damage per tick

Realistically:

- The damage/heal increased by about 100 and it is a static amount based on your character's level. So, Arry is right in saying that it is not much different; it isn't! The heal/damage per tick increased by 100. That's not all that significant. It's just that now, your HoT cannot cover the 100 damage increase so it's no longer something one can afford to stand in the pools.
- The passive is still broken and glitched.

[mommyjane]

people who won the pet from the event sold SnS for 100m++. duh! do u think players who bought that pet would settle for less after losing a lot of gold just to acquire the pet? not just that, players worked really hard for 3 long weeks to win the pet. it should be OP as what remiem stated during the introduction of the pet. how remiem introduced the pet made people willing to pay huge amount for the pet coz its OP.

however, eventhu its OP, its not as perfect as how u explained it on this thread. well how would ya know u dont have one thu. to be able to justify what u said u should get the pet if u can so u can test it urself. u cant just whine about this pet if u really dunno nor experience how SnS works in pvp both for its user and enemy. one sided thread. meh

[Remember Me]

Remiem is talking to the revs about the insane DMG, the ticks do ruffly 600 DMG (NOT CRIT) Per tick and there is 2 ticks per second resulting in 1.2k DMG per second. 2.4k DMG if stacked..

[Zeus]

Remiem is talking to the revs about the insane DMG, the ticks do ruffly 600 DMG (NOT CRIT) Per tick and there is 2 ticks per second resulting in 1.2k DMG per second. 2.4k DMG if stacked..

They do not do 600 damage per tick...

[Kingofninjas]

Okay the thing I find ridiculous is that fully geared rouges and mages (full mythic) are being killed by a single pool. Tanks are being killed by 2 pools (possibly one). Please test this before arguing because I have already tested this. When the pools stack I am dead in 2-3 seconds and tanks don't last much longer. While I am okay with SnS being this op because it is a uber-exclusive pet, I really think there should be a limit to the number of pools that can stack. Sometimes, if the pools stack enough, you have not have enough time to even run out of the pool (factoring in AoE damage). I'm not even gonna bother bringing up the health pools.
Another thing I would like to bring up is the passive ability, more specifically the rapid bleed. Samael no longer has the best PA. The armour and crit loss is enough and a 100% chance to rapid bleed just makes it even more ridiculous.
Finally, whenever there is a new release (or in this case buff), there are always complaints about it being too hard or OP. I remember vowing to never run elite summit again after I took over an hour on my first attempt. What I am trying to say is that people get used to it and adapt accordingly. Give it a few weeks or even a month but I am sure that tactics will be developed to deal with SnS. I'm sure someone will post a thread complaining about the newly buffed bulwark soon. :)

[Kingofninjas]

Well yah for pvp, but the game isnt revolved around pvp.
Umm yes it is...

[Speedofsound]

Umm yes it is...
The game is simply not revolved around pvp. If it was revolved around pvp, there would be no elite gear, elite runs, timed runs, weapon oriented gear towards elites, and also a campaign in general with quests. Your reply is absolutely ridiculous

[Kingofninjas]

The game is simply not revolved around pvp. If it was revolved around pvp, there would be no elite gear, elite runs, timed runs, weapon oriented gear towards elites, and also a campaign in general with quests. Your reply is absolutely ridiculous
And how many people pursue any of these other than for aps? Lets face it elite is dead, only a select few actually try timed runs and the campaign of quests are nothing but a way to differentiate who is on the leader board and who is isn't.

Anyways lets not get off topic. I won't say anymore.

[Speedofsound]

And how many people pursue any of these other than for aps? Lets face it elite is dead, only a select few actually try timed runs and the campaign of quests are nothing but a way to differentiate who is on the leader board and who is isn't.

Anyways lets not get off topic. I won't say anymore.
Did you ever notice that one of the top three guilds in this entire game is almost solely into timed runs? This game isnt revolved around pvp.

[Zeus]

Okay the thing I find ridiculous is that fully geared rouges and mages (full mythic) are being killed by a single pool. Tanks are being killed by 2 pools (possibly one). Please test this before arguing because I have already tested this. When the pools stack I am dead in 2-3 seconds and tanks don't last much longer. While I am okay with SnS being this op because it is a uber-exclusive pet, I really think there should be a limit to the number of pools that can stack. Sometimes, if the pools stack enough, you have not have enough time to even run out of the pool (factoring in AoE damage). I'm not even gonna bother bringing up the health pools.
Another thing I would like to bring up is the passive ability, more specifically the rapid bleed. Samael no longer has the best PA. The armour and crit loss is enough and a 100% chance to rapid bleed just makes it even more ridiculous.
Finally, whenever there is a new release (or in this case buff), there are always complaints about it being too hard or OP. I remember vowing to never run elite summit again after I took over an hour on my first attempt. What I am trying to say is that people get used to it and adapt accordingly. Give it a few weeks or even a month but I am sure that tactics will be developed to deal with SnS. I'm sure someone will post a thread complaining about the newly buffed bulwark soon. :)

The armor loss does not stack with aimed shot, making it less useful. Furthermore, even though it says 100% chance to bleed - it's glitched. This actually does NOT happen. So, it's a very slow attacking pet with a not so useful passive.

[Zeus]

I just tested - it ranges from 300 to 450 damage per tick.

Remember Me, please do not exaggerate. Deliver on point and accurate information, thank you!

[Robhawk]

Well can someone gift Ctf a SnS so he can stop crying like a little baby! He did about arcane ring too and when he got giftet one he stopped.

So pls gift him a SnS so his life makes sense again and we dont get another "SnS Cry Thread" every day.


ps: Btw I`d take a SnS egg too, ty! :D

[Anarchist]

Narf it.



C what i did there? :rolleyes: lol

[Jexetta]

I really appreciate the logical feedback from Arry, it's totally understandable.

The main issue is - if the other team knows how to use it, it's a total game changer. Honestly, the competition is more 'fierce' at almost any twink level. That pet damage is like having an extra warrior and mage if the opposite team gets caught - it REALLY is just not fun. And yes, it does feel like being naked when you get clocked in a hallway or stunned - most of the time the pets damage ends up giving the kill because pet damage is almost like a dot. Do whatever you want to unravel the game - it's not an exaggeration otherwise there wouldn't be so many posts about this EVERY day since they boosted it from every guild except karma and the very few members from Karma that care to stand up to it.

This is on top of most players not even understanding the health regen - it's like getting a horn of renew if you stand just right. I'm being civil here but really, for the majority of players it just makes the game really boring.

I feel pain when I think about people who realize that when the new content comes out and new mythic amulets come out they will be dealing with rogues who crit for so high well.... what's even the point of hitting Juggernaught.

Listen to people who logically state - a new mythic ring should come out first to balance out the gear gap. This whole thread is about gear gap (and multiple others) and how that jump to try to defeat a team who has such greater gear is becoming less fun. You just can't keep upping the gap and expect that people will resort to spamming crates. There is no pet based ability counter, there is nothing to farm right now, no one wants to farm crates for 5k, and the allure of farming deaths and or purples from FORCED crates from arena isn't fun. Coming out with a new amulet is going to up this gap further because the first people to have it will be the people maxed already - rogues have fun muhammad ali-ing a tanking now but really they won't even have to with coming amulet - spam skills and win.

And to the slow arcane attack post - EVERY arcane pet attacks slow, samael I will stand by stating : it's been glitched and attacks too fast.

[Pedgon]

Firstly, ill agree those who have the pet will defend it, and those who don't have it will bash it, especially since such a small part of the community has it. Some people who won this pet during the event seemed more inclined to sell the pet quickly because of its high demand without waiting to see how it would preform. I think a lot of people underestimated the ability of Shady and Surge, and to be honest after the recent stat buff its received, its not much different. People who own it are just starting to learn how to use its ability better. With all new things that come in this game you have to learn to adapt to it, for example the new bulwark curse is a nightmare to mages..but there are still ways around it to kill them. Likewise with sns, you're not forced to stand in the pools of death and any rogue with ring and samael can still kill me with charged bow stun samaels panic and one aimed shot even if im standing in the healing pools. In fact ive been one hit by many ring rouges, theres nothing stopping a single player or team from walking away from the pools until the AA is gone or even kiting around the pools, you just have to learn to adapt. I've faced SnS in plenty of clashes too and there are ways to counter it, maybe some people aren't used to it enough yet and just want anything that stands in their way of winning to be nerfed. Rather than that, try coming up with a defensive plan while this 7-8 second ability is active. There are many major disadvantages to using shady and surge as well running solo or with a team.

When this pet was first announced Remiem made a small video introducing it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MXyqwYTsg , in which she stated yes this pet is supposed to be overpowered because of its limited amount and due to the nature of how its acquired. That being said, 50+ players spent 3 weeks of playing this Ursoths Assault event 12+ hours a day non-stop missing sleep, meals and real life just for this one pet (not to mention ridiculous amounts of gold/platinum spent on energy kits). I myself didnt participate in the event to the point where i was awarded a pet but im sure many can agree that it was an agonizing process. This pet was meant to exclusive and overpowered, plain and simple.

yes bro..but SnS was already OP before these insane buffs..that's the point!! And you say u can avoid pools?? nah..gun root on damage pool - you're dead!! Only tanks with jugger can survive in this case.

[Arry]

yes bro..but SnS was already OP before these insane buffs..that's the point!! And you say u can avoid pools?? nah..gun root on damage pool - you're dead!! Only tanks with jugger can survive in this case.

I wouldn't call the buffs 'insane' at 3%dmg 1.5% crit and 100 dmg per pool. Also, mythic gun barely procs as it is, so the chances of you being in a pool and a gun rooting at the same time are extremely rare..even if it did the 2-3 second root wouldnt be long enough to kill a warrior. Yes, i say avoid the pools. With all the skills in a tanks arsenal you should have no problem pulling me away from the pools or even walking away until my shield is down.

On the OP topic the proc on bulwark works 100% of the time and is more effective than a mages curse, dealing damage even from the pets auto attack which makes it incredibly difficult to beat 1 on 1 with jugg, horn of renew and the healing proc you also receive..so i dont think the slim chance of being rooted on a pool is a problem, just unlucky.

[Pedgon]

I wouldn't call the buffs 'insane' at 3%dmg 1.5% crit and 100 dmg per pool. Also, mythic gun barely procs as it is, so the chances of you being in a pool and a gun rooting at the same time are extremely rare..even if it did the 2-3 second root wouldnt be long enough to kill a warrior. Yes, i say avoid the pools. With all the skills in a tanks arsenal you should have no problem pulling me away from the pools or even walking away until my shield is down.

On the OP topic the proc on bulwark works 100% of the time and is more effective than a mages curse, dealing damage even from the pets auto attack which makes it incredibly difficult to beat 1 on 1 with jugg, horn of renew and the healing proc you also receive..so i dont think the slim chance of being rooted on a pool is a problem, just unlucky.

300-450 damage per thick bro....and on some clashes i'm rooted for 100% time..trust me, it works!! and also think about other mages or rogues getting rooted or simple stun on pool..it's instant death!

IMO, "this" SnS ruins an entire clash..its just no fun, and u cant forget that pools "steal" kills (if u know what i mean..) and opponents receive no deaths..-.-

Yes bulwark now is OP bro..i agree! But necessary..warrior class was ruined on level 41 and this mythic weapon was a total failure..STG did good job on this one! And btw, 90% of players complaing about new Bulwark are mages lol curse rogues isnt tht easy and not so effective..coz of dodge!

[Anarchist]

I wouldn't call the buffs 'insane' at 3%dmg 1.5% crit and 100 dmg per pool. Also, mythic gun barely procs as it is, so the chances of you being in a pool and a gun rooting at the same time are extremely rare..even if it did the 2-3 second root wouldnt be long enough to kill a warrior. Yes, i say avoid the pools. With all the skills in a tanks arsenal you should have no problem pulling me away from the pools or even walking away until my shield is down.

On the OP topic the proc on bulwark works 100% of the time and is more effective than a mages curse, dealing damage even from the pets auto attack which makes it incredibly difficult to beat 1 on 1 with jugg, horn of renew and the healing proc you also receive..so i dont think the slim chance of being rooted on a pool is a problem, just unlucky.
What is the damage/tick of 1 pool?
Also how fast is it?
I cant run tests talkless play for some time..so can you post a video of a rogue standing in your sns pool? So we can see how weak it is?
Thanks

[Pedgon]

Re-read my post before you're so quick to reply. I am talking about the buff difference from original SnS to the current SnS.
Thanks

Bro, it's almost double damage and heal tht was before..STG said it! And i already saw it..and yes its around 2x damage/heal now!

I'm not even talking about stats buffs on Sns..honestly makes no difference, but it was unnecessary also..

[Arry]

300-450 damage per thick bro....and on some clashes i'm rooted for 100% time..trust me, it works!! and also think about other mages or rogues getting rooted or simple stun on pool..it's instant death!

IMO, "this" SnS ruins an entire clash..its just no fun, and u cant forget that pools "steal" kills (if u know what i mean..) and opponents receive no deaths..-.-

Yes bulwark now is OP bro..i agree! But necessary..warrior class was ruined on level 41 and this mythic weapon was a total failure..STG did good job on this one! And btw, 90% of players complaing about new Bulwark are mages lol curse rogues isnt tht easy and not so effective..coz of dodge!

The times ur rooted 100% of the time? Maybe if you're facing 3 mages on the opposing team, secondly im pretty sure the dodge doesnt effect curse on rogues they just receive a considerably lower amount of reflected damage for some reason. There is nothing wrong with the warrior class, any warrior who can properly use skills even without arcane ring or samael can outlast and kill any mage even with a magma blade.
Rogues can avoid being stunned on the pools with razor, warriors can avoid it with jugg, mages always get the short end of the stick but regardless if a mage is rooted they're pretty much dead anyway, especially in a clash.

Sure SnS is a tough pet to face, but so is the bulwark warrior, being aware of your opponent and their skills/gear makes pvp more challenging and fun, u dont see me crying in any thread to nerf the bulwark i enjoy a challenge.

[Pedgon]

The times ur rooted 100% of the time? Maybe if you're facing 3 mages on the opposing team, secondly im pretty sure the dodge doesnt effect curse on rogues they just receive a considerably lower amount of reflected damage for some reason. There is nothing wrong with the warrior class, any warrior who can properly use skills even without arcane ring or samael can outlast and kill any mage even with a magma blade.
Rogues can avoid being stunned on the pools with razor, warriors can avoid it with jugg, mages always get the short end of the stick but regardless if a mage is rooted they're pretty much dead anyway, especially in a clash.

Sure SnS is a tough pet to face, but so is the bulwark warrior, being aware of your opponent and their skills/gear makes pvp more challenging and fun, u dont see me crying in any thread to nerf the bulwark i enjoy a challenge.

Arry i was saying that is really hard to curse rogues coz if we dont hit we dont curse..and they dodge all the time! And as you know only charged hits grant curse, on normal hits also curses but rarely and with so short range..its almost impossible! That's why i was saying its not so effective like on vs mages!

I've been using magmatic as you know, till now, and yes, without proper "skills" gear is not that important!

You're not crying, but most of top level mages are..go General Discussion and check thread about Bulwark by Instanthumor. And i'm not crying too, just trying to make pvp clashes more fair and fun! A simple pet can easily change an entired 5x5 so..something is wrong bro! =/ this is the point..SnS was already good before..and OP on clashes, so i think that's what most of players dont understand, why buff Sns? meh:apthy:

[Jexetta]

The main point is no pet has this kind of damage output (or heal output) - how much damage does Singe's AA put out? How much damage does the 'exclusive' whim AA put out? We're talking about a huge gap here.

The previous iteration of the pet ability lasted 8 seconds. If I'm to take your numbers and apply the 1/2 a second tick speed to 8 seconds we're talking about 1 pool putting out 4800 damage at the low end, and 7200 damage at the high end - no pet puts out that kind of damage. In total the pools combined put out 14,400 to 21,600 damage. I have no idea what the heal number is per tick - but would like to know that too since we're throwing numbers out here. Please correct my math if I misinterpreted how to apply the damage per second.

Thank you for verifying the numbers.

[Zeus]

Each pet is unique and known for something. Let us take Samael, shall we? No other pet comes close to auto attack damage output and the stun city that this pet delivers. With no terrify/panic immunity, Samael can theoretically panic after each attack! However, what are the chances of that happening? Slim! Now, let us take Shady and Surge. No other pet comes close to the healing and AA damage output it provides. With no overlapping pool immunity, SnS can theoretically dish out 14,400 to 21,600 damage per AA! However, what are the chances of all 3 pools stacking & the opponent staying in the pool for the eight second duration? Slim!

Now, let us look at low end. Right now, you are not taking into account other variables like movement skill. So, sure one pool has the potential to put out 4800 damage on the low end and 7200 damage on the high end. However, what sort of opponent purposely stays in the pools unless he/she wants to utilize them as a trigger for Juggernaut?

Furthermore, pets have greatly evolved since whims came out. Frankly, whim is not up to stats these days and should be buffed. However, since you mentioned whims, let's delve into the brothers. Whims not only pulls mobs but also performs a huge armor reduction debuff coupled with a combo. Now, the combo itself is not the deadly part in whims. The huge armor reduction, in turn, enables your character to dish out insane damage amounts. So, the strength in whim's AA lies in not the damage of the pet, but the increased damage output of the user.

Since you asked for heal number per tick, it is 310-410 heal per tick. Again, yes - it has the potential to heal a great deal of health but a skilled and avid PvP player will not stand still either. So, a player may only really be picking up 2k from a pool before having to bail to find a safer location to kill enemies from.

Lastly, I have mentioned that Remiem looked over Remember Me's PM and mentioned that the QA team found the reports to be matching my set of data, not his. As a result, they did not think it was overpowered and no further changes are planned for SnS. So, I think any further discussion on this topic is really nonsensical.

[Jexetta]

Discussing and informing people who play Arcane Legends of the abilities of little pets like Shady and Surge is never nonsensical. Sorry for being nonsensical in your opinion of getting the numbers out there so everyone knows the power of SnS's ability.

So Shady and Surge's heal puts out 4,960 to 6,560 respectively and 3 could potentially heal 14,880 to 19,680 health or the equivalent of 3 of my tanks.

When I design a house for a client and if even 2 of the 6 theoretical occupants is unhappy I never say 'too bad'. Every customer is important and discussing things is in almost all cases healthy.

[Bless]

I could however see stacking 2 or more sns being way too OP. Not going to lie about this statement

Yes but this rarely happens. It's not like Samael where everybody and their mother has one so the clash becomes a panic fest. Incorrect. I can list lots of combos with at least 2 SnS.


#SnSisOP2014

[Bless]

I just tested - it ranges from 300 to 450 damage per tick.

Remember Me, please do not exaggerate. Deliver on point and accurate information, thank you! A tick is 0.5 seconds.

Around 700 dmg at least per second per pool.


#SnSisOP2014

[Anarchist]

Lmao this pet is just insane.

Imma go play LoL, while i lol@sts ruining pvp for every non sns bandwagon.

[Bless]

Each pet is unique and known for something. Let us take Samael, shall we? No other pet comes close to auto attack damage output and the stun city that this pet delivers. With no terrify/panic immunity, Samael can theoretically panic after each attack! However, what are the chances of that happening? Slim! Now, let us take Shady and Surge. No other pet comes close to the healing and AA damage output it provides. With no overlapping pool immunity, SnS can theoretically dish out 14,400 to 21,600 damage per AA! However, what are the chances of all 3 pools stacking & the opponent staying in the pool for the eight second duration? Slim!

Now, let us look at low end. Right now, you are not taking into account other variables like movement skill. So, sure one pool has the potential to put out 4800 damage on the low end and 7200 damage on the high end. However, what sort of opponent purposely stays in the pools unless he/she wants to utilize them as a trigger for Juggernaut?

Furthermore, pets have greatly evolved since whims came out. Frankly, whim is not up to stats these days and should be buffed. However, since you mentioned whims, let's delve into the brothers. Whims not only pulls mobs but also performs a huge armor reduction debuff coupled with a combo. Now, the combo itself is not the deadly part in whims. The huge armor reduction, in turn, enables your character to dish out insane damage amounts. So, the strength in whim's AA lies in not the damage of the pet, but the increased damage output of the user.

Since you asked for heal number per tick, it is 310-410 heal per tick. Again, yes - it has the potential to heal a great deal of health but a skilled and avid PvP player will not stand still either. So, a player may only really be picking up 2k from a pool before having to bail to find a safer location to kill enemies from.

Lastly, I have mentioned that Remiem looked over Remember Me's PM and mentioned that the QA team found the reports to be matching my set of data, not his. As a result, they did not think it was overpowered and no further changes are planned for SnS. So, I think any further discussion on this topic is really nonsensical. Try it in a clash, these figures lie. The real challenge is staying alive from the attack + pet dmg. I don't think you've clashed hardcore against pros + 3 or more Sns - figures mean nothing in that situation. And devs barely test pvp using real/normal gear. They just estimate figures.

[Zeus]

Discussing and informing people who play Arcane Legends of the abilities of little pets like Shady and Surge is never nonsensical. Sorry for being nonsensical in your opinion of getting the numbers out there so everyone knows the power of SnS's ability.

So Shady and Surge's heal puts out potentially 4,960 to 6,560 respectively and 3 could potentially heal 14,880 to 19,680 health or the equivalent of 3 of my tanks.

When I design a house for a client and if even 2 of the 6 theoretical occupants is unhappy I never say 'too bad'. Every customer is important and discussing things is in almost all cases healthy.

Discussing and putting opinions is not nonsensical, I agree. However, continuing after an aftermath has been reached is nonsensical in the sense that there will not be any further resources devoted to SnS. Also, I added another potentially in there. The heal output all depends on how long a character stays in the pool for. Every customer is indeed important, however, in this case you are not a customer. Unless you own a SnS, you are not a customer.


Try it in a clash, these figures lie. They even have developer confirmation! The real challenge is staying alive from the attack + pet dmg. I don't think you've clashed hardcore against pros + 3 or more Sns - figures mean nothing in that situation. And devs barely test pvp using real/normal gear. They just estimate figures.

I've tried it in a clash - these figures do not lie. Furthermore, how is it any different than stacking Samaels? Chain stuns are not considered OP? They are! However, there's a way around it for 5 seconds through the use of Razor Shield. We've fought friendly from within Karma and having SnS on both sides. Additionally, the poison pools ignore armor so the only stat on an avatar's page that would help combat a SnS damage pool is total health. It is not that bad unless you like brute force Rambo charging. In the case that you do, I would suggest reworking your tactics.

[Bless]

Discussing and informing people who play Arcane Legends of the abilities of little pets like Shady and Surge is never nonsensical. Sorry for being nonsensical in your opinion of getting the numbers out there so everyone knows the power of SnS's ability.

So Shady and Surge's heal puts out potentially 4,960 to 6,560 respectively and 3 could potentially heal 14,880 to 19,680 health or the equivalent of 3 of my tanks.

When I design a house for a client and if even 2 of the 6 theoretical occupants is unhappy I never say 'too bad'. Every customer is important and discussing things is in almost all cases healthy.

Discussing and putting opinions is not nonsensical, I agree. However, continuing after an aftermath has been reached is nonsensical in the sense that there will not be any further resources devoted to SnS. Also, I added another potentially in there. The heal output all depends on how long a character stays in the pool for. Every customer is indeed important, however, in this case you are not a customer. Unless you own a SnS, you are not a customer. Customers are not only SnS owners. Otherwise there would be a seperate game for the 44 SnS owners called "SNS legends".

The pet affects the whole of PVP and everyone has a say. I don't care what the devs say right now - they said the same thing for Whimm and bulwark. Look at them now, both buffed despite saying they would not be.


SnS situation as it stands:
Hundreds of average pvpers > 44 SNS owners. Who will the devs listen to?
700~ dmg per second is not OP? It's the amount a nox bolt does which has a 2 sec cd.
800 heal per second is not OP? That is absurd.
Nobody is stupid enough to get a team with 5 SnS. They would use 2 or 3 SnS and samaels. Best of both OP worlds!
Who cares if people spent 100m for it? Others spent 30m for samael, 20m for mythic bow and 110m for ring - 160m~ worth and what happens? Gets pounded by SnS pool. Somebody should make a damn meme for this bs.

[Anarchist]

Discussing and putting opinions is not nonsensical, I agree. However, continuing after an aftermath has been reached is nonsensical in the sense that there will not be any further resources devoted to SnS. Also, I added another potentially in there. The heal output all depends on how long a character stays in the pool for. Every customer is indeed important, however, in this case you are not a customer. Unless you own a SnS, you are not a customer.
Says who?

Sts has put bold full stop marks to their decisions then still change it.
What are you trying to make us understand? That our feedbacks don't count?
You provided your feedback as a sns owner but its also good sts hears and listens to the feedbacks of non sns owners.
Its not just about the numbers which are insane even for a exclusive pet.
4.8k damage x pool is just "Lol wtf are you doing dude?".

I dunno what they tested in their office but imo the devs should organize a 5v5 clash between themselves give one team a SnS and leave the other without and see the results. Its like 8v5.

[Zeus]

Says who?

Sts has put bold full stop marks to their decisions then still change it.
What are you trying to make us understand? That our feedbacks don't count?
You provided your feedback as a sns owner but its also good sts hears and listens to the feedbacks of non sns owners.
Its not just about the numbers which are insane even for a exclusive pet.
4.8k damage x pool is just "Lol wtf are you doing dude?".

I dunno what they tested in their office but imo the devs should organize a 5v5 clash between themselves give one team a SnS and leave the other without and see the results. Its like 8v5.

Don't make it exclusive for all I care, but don't nerf it. It's saddening that one pet has to beat all pets *cough* Samael. Each pet should have a specialized use and play style - it's what makes for interesting play. Right now, STG has achieved that with SnS. There's no other arcane pet out that beats Samael in some categories.

Please stop listing exaggerations as well. The last I checked, developers listen to hard numbers and those are the suggestions they implement because they are backed by logic & proof.

@Bless
You can use Nox until mana runs out. Shady and Surge has an insanely long cool down time. Actually, longest of all arcane pets! So for a pool that lasts 8 secs, you can't compare the two.

[Speedofsound]

This is my honest opinion on the matter. I truly want pets that differ in usefulness but they need to be balanced. I would agree with slightly nerfing sns damage tick. Nothing major or close but just a slight nerf to the damage of the pools so it is still more useful than samael in clash since its exclusive...but not earth shattering OP.

[Anarchist]

This is my honest opinion on the matter. I truly want pets that differ in usefulness but they need to be balanced. I would agree with slightly nerfing sns damage tick. Nothing major or close but just a slight nerf to the damage of the pools so it is still more useful than samael in clash since its exclusive...but not earth shattering OP.

Exactly. We are not saying sts should be a vanity pet. It wasnt before.
I understand its due time sam gets overthrone but this is just too much. When a new exclusive pet will come and it will have to beat sns what would is aa be?

PvP banish?

[Anarchist]

Don't make it exclusive for all I care, but don't nerf it. It's saddening that one pet has to beat all pets *cough* Samael. Each pet should have a specialized use and play style - it's what makes for interesting play. Right now, STG has achieved that with SnS. There's no other arcane pet out that beats Samael in some categories.

Please stop listing exaggerations as well. The last I checked, developers listen to hard numbers and those are the suggestions they implement because they are backed by logic & proof.

@Bless
You can use Nox until mana runs out. Shady and Surge has an insanely long cool down time. Actually, longest of all arcane pets! So for a pool that lasts 8 secs, you can't compare the two.
Huh?

I repeated what you said about sns dealing 4800 damage x pool thats insane imo. Are you sure devs listen to hard numbers ? Cause if they did i dont understand how they can let a pet do:

4800 damage x pool at the low end, and 7200 damage at the high end.
14,400 to 21,600 total damage per AA.
Sns also have on its own a passive movement disturber bleed. When it works you move slower(its not bugged it works)


Is Shady and Surge a secret fourth class sts been working on?

[Remember Me]

As a fully geared rogue I am hit with 600 DMG it does more damage if crit.

Remiem said this is being looked into...

1.4k DMG per second at minimum from a pet AA is unnaceptable and I know many people will not play AL anymore if this nonsense continues..

The best pet should not be exclusive, this is wrong item mechanics.

Yes, 100% of the people supporting SnS right now benefit directly or indirectly from a friend owning a SnS, the rest of us who have to put up with this nonsense know the struggle.


#thestruggleisreal

[Zeus]

Exactly. We are not saying sts should be a vanity pet. It wasnt before.
I understand its due time sam gets overthrone but this is just too much. When a new exclusive pet will come and it will have to beat sns what would is aa be?

PvP banish?

Before, SnS was a vanity pet. It did not do much damage that HoTs could not negate, had a slow passive, so yes...it was horrid before. The damage could have been negated by stacking HoTs which is what happens when you stack Samael. Now, this is not the case. HoTs still reduce the damage but they do not negate it entirely.

[Zeus]

As a fully geared rogue I am hit with 600 DMG it does more damage if crit.

Remiem said this is being looked into...

1.4k DMG per second at minimum from a pet AA is unnaceptable and I know many people will not play AL anymore if this nonsense continues..

The best pet should not be exclusive, this is wrong item mechanics.

Yes, 100% of the people supporting SnS right now benefit directly or indirectly from a friend owning a SnS, the rest of us who have to put up with this nonsense know the struggle.


#thestruggleisreal

It does not do 600 damage & more if it crits. Remiem herself said this was incorrect when the QA team looked into it.

@Anarchist
I did not say that. What you are listing is possible damage outputs if an opponent is naive enough to stand in an SnS pool for the entire duration.

[Bless]

Exactly. We are not saying sts should be a vanity pet. It wasnt before.
I understand its due time sam gets overthrone but this is just too much. When a new exclusive pet will come and it will have to beat sns what would is aa be?

PvP banish?

Before, SnS was a vanity pet. It did not do much damage that HoTs could not negate, had a slow passive, so yes...it was horrid before. The damage could have been negated by stacking HoTs which is what happens when you stack Samael. Now, this is not the case. HoTs still reduce the damage but they do not negate it entirely.It wasn't a vanity, it was a clash pet and even then it was OP when facing average pvpers. The new 100 dmg and HP just buffed it even more.

Sts just fixed something that wasnt broken, what a joke. The stacking pools were already OP as hell as it was in the ctf hallways.

[Zeus]

It wasn't a vanity, it was a clash pet and even then it was OP when facing average pvpers. The new 100 dmg and HP just buffed it even more.

Sts just fixed something that wasnt broken, what a joke. The stacking pools were already OP as hell as it was in the ctf hallways.

"It was OP when facing average PvPers"

They're average, that's why it's OP to them. Learn to combat it. :)

[UndeadJudge]

To be quite honest, a lot of people in this game complain about things that should really be part of PvP. In other games I play, popular strategies, builds, etc are called the "meta game". As such, the game is changing and people are just complaining that they cannot adapt. I wasn't here when Samael was released, but I'm pretty sure someone made a thread about it too. Now the meta game is changing, and people should just find a way to adapt.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Limsi]

Devs please take a look at this issue. Thanks.

[Zeus]

"It was OP when facing average PvPers"

They're average, that's why it's OP to them. Learn to combat it. :)


To be quite honest, a lot of people in this game complain about things that should really be part of PvP. In other games I play, popular strategies, builds, etc are called the "meta game". As such, the game is changing and people are just complaining that they cannot adapt. I wasn't here when Samael was released, but I'm pretty sure someone made a thread about it too. Now the meta game is changing, and people should just find a way to adapt.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You won't believe the threads that people made over Samael, lol...

[mommyjane]

i could see that most complaints against SnS are coming from mags.
u guys cant avoid the pools? if thats the case why not stay away from pvp room when ur opponent has sns? OP price + OP hardwork = OP pet ofc.
i understand ur point that SnS has a huge gap compared to other arcane pet like whims which was exclusive too. but how players acquired those pets has a huge gap too , dont ya think so?

out of the topic question, some of ur members also won the pet after the event right? and u guys could afford to buy the pet. why didnt u keep some for ur guild for pvp clashes? if u guys only keep 3-5, this thread woudnt exist.

[Zeus]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oqaWTAH_kk&feature=youtube_gdata_playerhttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oqaWTAH_kk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Here's a video. I know, it's amazing that I survived! As you can see, the numbers are nowhere near what CTF is claiming.

[Bless]

i could see that most complaints against SnS are coming from mags. I can see 100% of the support is from SnS owners/friends with benefits. And 31% of all SnS owners are Karms. So what? Its too OP for CTF rooms. In pve the nerf does not have to be applied.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oqaWTAH_kk&feature=youtube_gdata_playerhttp://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8oqaWTAH_kk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Here's a video. I know, it's amazing that I survived! As you can see, the numbers arennowhere near what CTF is claiming. That video just proved it. You should not need to use heals ON A PET. There is no game where the pet does more damage than the whole 5 people put together. There is no game where the opposite team are healing just because of a pet! Heals are wasted to keep alive from those pools. Its like another 2 rogues coming at you.

Tanks die in 3 seconds when stationary/running through pools. Nothing competes with that damage, it doesnt matter if its idiotic to run through, THAT KIND OF DMG FROM A PET IS ABSURD ANYWAYS. 700 heal and damage per second which lasts 8 seconds and is multiplied by 4? Thats crazy!

[UndeadJudge]

You forgot to mention when they make changes balance is a fundamental part of the change.

Definition of metagame:
Metagaming is any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.

The sns buff is not something that came outside of the game it was absurdly built in it by a developer.

Sns doesnt enhance the metagame cause there are few to non strategies that can be use to counter it. Sns owners says "move around the pool, why should you stand in them? Nobody would obviously stand in them genius, but we all know that you can be:

Slowed: by a clock/ by passive bleed of the pet/ ethyl.
Stunned: by the mage/ by the wars/ by maul proc/ charge attacks/pets.
Rooted:crawly/ gun proc.
Panicked: Samael/Slag.

In a clash at least one of this happens if not all and thats when any opponent will use its Sns, when 1/2 enemies can't move.

So how do you counter this, any PRATICABLE idea?



@Zeus people complain for anything they know hurts their/lowers their odds of winningthreatens their pockets. Including you.

Use vixen.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mommyjane]

I can see 100% of the support is from SnS owners/friends with benefits. And 31% of all SnS owners are Karms. So what? Its too OP for CTF rooms. In pve the nerf does not have to be applied.

r u admitting that u guys made this thread coz karma has 12-15 SnS(if im not mistaken) and it outnumbered magnum's SnS?
what if, u have 10 SnS and karma has only 1? would ya push sts to nerf the pet in pvp?


We paid 160m for our gear/pet.

Bow - 20m
Ring - 110m~
Samael or even sns since sns rogues die too- 30m

Last time I checked 160m > 100m.

whats with ur calculations? we r talking about the pet not ur gears and how much u paid for them.
if we r going to compute all our gears including sns the sum will leave ur mouth dropped open hunny.
bow-20m
ring-110m
sns-100m+
and we have more than 10 sns users in guild, who paid that much and worked hard to get that pet.

last time ive checked, 230m> 160m

u should have had bought sns too before so u wouldnt be crying here about its OPness.
but still, my point is dont be so one-sided on ur opinions. 100m+ isnt a joke price for a pet that u r requesting to be nerfed and be balanced as any other arcane pets that u can acquire from crates.

[Slovek]

Lmao, thats why I don't dignify replies for you. You barely understand what I'm saying!

By defending the current state of SnS, you don't care ANYWAYS about the hundreds of players who brought maxed gear for 150m+++ or the normal players spending 20m~ when they get 3-second-owned by SnS. So why should I care about the amount of plat /time they spent in order to earn the pets when I am opposing it because it is OP?

I doubt this will be fully understood but I want my point across :p.

she wouldntt understand (lol) lets just wait for devss response. hope they care about the other players as well...

[Bless]

she wouldntt understand (lol) lets just wait for devss response. hope they care about the other players as well... Nothing will be done here when people are super biased, inc. me and everyone defending it. We need to show devs proof that will topple their figures. Figures mean nothing without practical use.

A month ago they were opposing the initial nerf because the pet is on par with samael.
Then stg buffs SNS!
Now the same people are saying the same thing even though it is buffed "don't nerf it, its still not OP; samael still owns it! See I walked through pools and didnt die"

50 years later: After 4000 buffs: "Its not OP, you can still survive if you get 5 tank heals and 10k hp"

People are funny.

[Zeus]

1. SnS was introduced as an OP pet. And it was the best pet and OP even then. Then devs introduced nekro with Super OP stats; the SnS users asked for a buff since nekro is so OP. Now, sts nerfed nekro because a lot of people complained. However at the same time they buffed SNS for no reason, nekro was nerfed so why did SnS get buffed?

2. Who cares how much plat or time they spent? It was their fault. I spent 160m to buy my gear and I spent 80k plat (example) to loot my ring. And this gets owned by a crazy OP pet which people spent 50m to earn?


Furthermore, nobody was promised a buff when event was on. Why the hell was the pet buffed?

It was not the best pet and Nekro actually barely got a nerf. It still grants around 18% damage.

[Zeus]

I can see 100% of the support is from SnS owners/friends with benefits. And 31% of all SnS owners are Karms. So what? Its too OP for CTF rooms. In pve the nerf does not have to be applied.

That video just proved it. You should not need to use heals ON A PET. There is no game where the pet does more damage than the whole 5 people put together. There is no game where the opposite team are healing just because of a pet! Heals are wasted to keep alive from those pools. Its like another 2 rogues coming at you.

Tanks die in 3 seconds when stationary/running through pools. Nothing competes with that damage, it doesnt matter if its idiotic to run through, THAT KIND OF DMG FROM A PET IS ABSURD ANYWAYS. 700 heal and damage per second which lasts 8 seconds and is multiplied by 4? Thats crazy!

Idk about you, but I rarely have to use my heals due to incoming rogues. It's the tank's job to heal, shield, and feeble. Mine's just to do damage. Charging your heals for 3 seconds and then running around to pick them up is just a silly move because it makes yourself open to other rogues & SnS.

[Zeus]

I posted that video to get rid of your exaggerations. Yes, I went to 23% in 3 seconds of an overlapped pool. I didn't die, nor was the pool doing 600+ damage as your figures claimed. Furthermore, if I packed into a single pool, the HoT alone helped cover and reduce a lot of the incoming damage.

When you stack 5 Samaels in one team, you're getting 382.5 heal per second - roughly. This alone basically reduces SnS's damage output to half of what it is. Are you telling me that you cannot survive sub 300 damage ticks? Give me a break! I've also fought against the pet and it isn't nearly as bad as people claim. When you use it, it means one less panic/stun pet which is something that can be EASILY noticed.

Let's not even mention HoR or the other heal skills of various classes, ok?

[Sterniz]

A pet can kill a Toon w/ their AA alone! Owners sit back watch your enemies die w/ its 580-600 x2 per sec. tick! :P

what if SAMAEL banished AA implemented in PvP???


just saying! :)

[Anarchist]

A pet can kill a Toon w/ their AA alone! Owners sit back watch your enemies die w/ its 580-600 x2 per sec. tick! :P

what if SAMAEL banished AA implemented in PvP???


just saying! :)
Don't give them ideas! :O

[TheArcaneWolf]

Nothing will be done here when people are super biased, inc. me and everyone defending it. We need to show devs proof that will topple their figures. Figures mean nothing without practical use.

A month ago they were opposing the initial nerf because the pet is on par with samael.
Then stg buffs SNS!
Now the same people are saying the same thing even though it is buffed "don't nerf it, its still not OP; samael still owns it! See I walked through pools and didnt die"

50 years later: After 4000 buffs: "Its not OP, you can still survive if you get 5 tank heals and 10k hp"

People are funny.
I agree, both the owners of the pet and the people complaining about the pet are biased. The owners don't want their main pet to become less powerful, and the ones who don't own it are disappointed because their pets don't come close to Shady and Surge. Personally, I agree that this pet's stats should be lowered. Look at Zeus's video. Zeus probably has the best gear possible for level 41, yet his health is drained quickly by the pools. Plus, he does not stay in the pool the whole time and he heals himself. And let us not forget that in actual PVP, the enemies will constantly be attacking and possibly stunning in addition to the pools. These factors were not present in the video, therefore making that portrayal of the pet's attack inaccurate. If all of these factors were added (remember that Zeus still has top gear) it would be likely that Zeus would have died or at least would have very low health.
For a normal PVP player with good but not top gear, I am sure it would be nearly impossible to survive a battle against someone with SnS.

[Caabatric]

after getting crushed by a sns last night i give up on pvp till i get a sameal arcane ring elo gun and ancient druid perfect elo gems. I wan to see if then ill survive.

[Bless]

Nothing will be done here when people are super biased, inc. me and everyone defending it. We need to show devs proof that will topple their figures. Figures mean nothing without practical use.

A month ago they were opposing the initial nerf because the pet is on par with samael.
Then stg buffs SNS!
Now the same people are saying the same thing even though it is buffed "don't nerf it, its still not OP; samael still owns it! See I walked through pools and didnt die"

50 years later: After 4000 buffs: "Its not OP, you can still survive if you get 5 tank heals and 10k hp"

People are funny.
I agree, both the owners of the pet and the people complaining about the pet are biased. The owners don't want their main pet to become less powerful, and the ones who don't own it are disappointed because their pets don't come close to Shady and Surge. Personally, I agree that this pet's stats should be lowered. Look at Zeus's video. Zeus probably has the best gear possible for level 41, yet his health is drained quickly by the pools. Plus, he does not stay in the pool the whole time and he heals himself. And let us not forget that in actual PVP, the enemies will constantly be attacking and possibly stunning in addition to the pools. These factors were not present in the video, therefore making that portrayal of the pet's attack inaccurate. If all of these factors were added (remember that Zeus still has top gear) it would be likely that Zeus would have died or at least would have very low health.
For a normal PVP player with good but not top gear, I am sure it would be nearly impossible to survive a battle against someone with SnS. Amen, brother.

[Seoratrek]

At this point I think everyone has stated their opinion. I'll forward this to the devs but I'm closing it down since people are resulting into insulting each other.

[Remiem]

Another update here. Our Quality Assurance team is looking into the balance of Shady and Surge and we will post an update if/when any changes to this pet go in. Thank you for your concern!