Classbalance thread !!!

[Robhawk]

So the new class balance thread (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?178151-Let-s-Talk-About-Class-Balance!) got closed with following statement:



Hey all. Thank you so much for all of your feedback! I'm going to close this one up while I compile all of the data to send along to the devs. As you know, class balance is a delicate process. We do want to take the time that's necessary to make sure that everything turns out the way it should. Also, that being said, we also have a very full road map with changes and new content through the end of the year. While I can't promise that you will see changes tomorrow, I can promise that the devs are hearing each and every one of your suggestions and we are working very hard to keep the game fair, balance, and fun to play.

I guess its not only me thinking it is totally wrong to follow a roadmap with new content and things WHEN THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS DONT GET SOLVED FIRST! Imho you (STS) dont need new content when the players are unsatisfied and leaving the game... YOU SHOULD FIX CLASS BALANCE BEFORE ANY NEW CONTENT!
The ones who pay for this game are without any doubt the endgame PVP players and these players dont need new content THEY NEED a GOOD, BALANCED GAME !!!

ps: I tell you (STS) I wont come back to AL even when you put new content every day when you dont do the main business, to get the acutal content work as it should and i also tell you that im not the only one thinking that way! So you should think about priorities and hopefully change your mind! The players who play for free and only do PVE for some weeks to leave are NOT the ones to carry either the game nor your company!

[Arachnophobik]

We need both

[Kakashis]

if only mages and warriors could one shot!

[Thrindal]

We need both

Agreed, farmers need something to do.

[Bigboyblue]

I am also disappointed with this. We can't wait 4 or 5 months for a change. Why is it that us mages get left behind? The warrior bulwark curse didn't take anytime for STS to implement. Every person in that thread agrees that mages are underpowered. There number one recommended solution was to improve the shield skill. Remove the knockback upgrade and change it to stun immunity. We also need it to absorb more damage. By changing the formula to [(intx2)+str)]x3(or3.5) we get a good increase to our damage absorption. For my toon which is full mythic I'm looking at 1500+ additional damage being absorbed. This is only 1/3rd of a geared rogues crit lol. These are two quick and easy ways to improve mages in pvp with little to no affect on pve. Why can't this be done now? What is the problem with making these two changes? It isn't going to unbalance pvp. Quite frankly mages are still going to be underpowered.

The real problem here is STS doesn't understand pvp. I don't want to sound mean, but they don't play it, they don't play their own game. They don't understand that a change like that would at least help mages, but it certainty isn't the final answer. I'm finding myself less interested in this game lately. I want to continue doing pvp but with rogue crits and the bulwark curse it is more of a let down than anything. I find myself logging on, doing 15 mins of pvp, getting frustrated and logging off.

It's time to make a change. PVP is unbalanced, pve offers little to no reward. This game needs a revamp. I keep seeing a huge push from STS to create new content. Please fix the current content before anything else is released. I'm not normally one to rant, but I find it to be the only affective way to get anything changed. I want to see this thread blow up. Everyone post your opinion. Let STS know we aren't satisfied. If we don't drop the subject they will do something. Don't let this fade away!!

[Anarchist]

I think the major balance will come with the skill system upgrade..for now any fix is nothing but a patch..so lets be patient, mages..

[Excuses]

We need both

+1 on this

Arena is a joke. Elixir prices are going too high for epic gears from arena.
And we need class balance as well as rogue pet % glitch and some other glitches(like sns code) to be fixed.

[Robhawk]

I think the major balance will come with the skill system upgrade..for now any fix is nothing but a patch..so lets be patient, mages..

We were patient since this game was released, im not anymore! PVP for mages got worse every single season and now we reached somehow the bottom!

Arcane maul`s totally and obvious OP stun proc lasted !!! aaaaaa yeeaarrrrrr !!! and our myth gun got nerfed after "some days" although nobody complained about it and everybody knew, so should STS, that mages in general are underpowered at pvp... -> LOL !!!

Warriors got windmill bug to kill everything at the beginning, later there was the maul to own the battlefield... after that they got a damn good L36 myth weapon named glaive/bonesaw and today they have the OP cursing bulwark.

Rogues have bugged aimed shot with nearly no cooldown since the game started and they had a big damage-bug advantage in tdm for month.

So what do "we" mages got apart from a bad arcane weapon and a nerfed actual myth weapon? Nothin? TY!

[Anarchist]

Chill.
First of all i want you to have clear there is a balance in pvp and more or less it works.
War>Mage
Mage>Rogue
Rogue>War.
So what exactly do you want?
To kill a war? You can do that if you stunlock otherwise, according to the balance you die.
You can kill rogues oh ye you can. You can kill rogues before your sheild wears out. I know cause i am a rogue.

You dont wanna be combomed by rogues? Well rogues combo anything including other rogues. But you where granted a sheild with invulnerability use it wisely you should rarely be combomed if you play your mage well.
Except you wanna go rambo like a war and pretend to assorb all that damage. You arent a war so you obviously will fail.

Yes mages are slighty weaker in versus but in clashes are bombs. Have you tried 5 mages vs 5 rogues?
You are not a 1vs1 class, stop trying to tank like a war and snipe like a rogue.

Imo futher balance will come with skill system upgrade but lets not make a greek tragedy outta this. What mages were meant to do they do it fairly good.

[Haligali]

Chill.
First of all i want you to have clear there is a balance in pvp and more or less it works.
War>Mage
Mage>Rogue
Rogue>War.
So what exactly do you want?
To kill a war? You can do that if you stunlock otherwise, according to the balance you die.
You can kill rogues oh ye you can. You can kill rogues before your sheild wears out. I know cause i am a rogue.

You dont wanna be combomed by rogues? Well rogues combo anything including other rogues. But you where granted a sheild with invulnerability use it wisely you should rarely be combomed if you play your mage well.
Except you wanna go rambo like a war and pretend to assorb all that damage. You arent a war so you obviously will fail.

Yes mages are slighty weaker in versus but in clashes are bombs. Have you tried 5 mages vs 5 rogues?
You are not a 1vs1 class, stop trying to tank like a war and snipe like a rogue.

Imo futher balance will come with skill system upgrade but lets not make a greek tragedy outta this. What mages were meant to do they do it fairly good.

5 mages could kill 5 warrior in season 4, its impossible since crafting. Obviously 5 rogue is the worst team, 5 warrior could kill them easy too. Many rogues could and can kill mages, so mage>rogue is simply not true.

And mages are useless in clashes since warriors can curse better.

[Anarchist]

5 mages could kill 5 warrior in season 4, its impossible since crafting. Obviously 5 rogue is the worst team, 5 warrior could kill them easy too. Many rogues could and can kill mages, so mage>rogue is simply not true.
Skilled Wars can kill rogues too using just magmatic swords and beating the rogue>war balance.


Mages have all they need to kill a rogue easy, its not steroid buffs you guys should be expecting so you can finally kill wars, you are at disadvantage versus wars accept it. What mages should look forward to imo is stun immunity.

[Bigboyblue]

I think the major balance will come with the skill system upgrade..for now any fix is nothing but a patch..so lets be patient, mages..

So, we should 4 months or longer? The skill update won't happen until the next expansion. The next expansion won't happen until at least February of next year. I suspect it will come even later than that. So it could be as long as 6 months+. That just isn't a fair amount of time for us to wait.

Also, I have now realized the class balance is more like warrior>mage, rogue>mage, warrior=rogue. The rogue vs mage match up is much closer but with the stun immunity of razor we have lost our only edge. Mages do just fine in clashes, we die a lot but also get some kills. The problem is we can't do anything unless we are in a group. Also if a bulwark warrior shows up we are dead.

Anarchist, create an end game mage if you don't have one already. Do 10 hours or more of pvp and then come back with your opinion on them. I have a feeling you may be a bit more sympathetic.

[Robhawk]

Chill.
First of all i want you to have clear there is a balance in pvp and more or less it works.
War>Mage
Mage>Rogue
Rogue>War.
So what exactly do you want?
To kill a war? You can do that if you stunlock otherwise, according to the balance you die.
You can kill rogues oh ye you can. You can kill rogues before your sheild wears out. I know cause i am a rogue.

You dont wanna be combomed by rogues? Well rogues combo anything including other rogues. But you where granted a sheild with invulnerability use it wisely you should rarely be combomed if you play your mage well.
Except you wanna go rambo like a war and pretend to assorb all that damage. You arent a war so you obviously will fail.

Yes mages are slighty weaker in versus but in clashes are bombs. Have you tried 5 mages vs 5 rogues?
You are not a 1vs1 class, stop trying to tank like a war and snipe like a rogue.

Imo futher balance will come with skill system upgrade but lets not make a greek tragedy outta this. What mages were meant to do they do it fairly good.

You dont get the point here!

Warriors had month with glitched windmill, got a year with glitched arcane maul while they also had damageoutput monsters like glaive/bonesaw and now they have a glitched, i call it glitched, bulwark while the mages get a nerfed myth gun after a crap arcane weapon ?

Rogues have the insane and glitched aimed shot since day one and had month with the tdm damageoutput-glitch.

Warriors and rogues have a stun immunity, rogues also can dodge samael or slags panice/terrify. Mages dont have ANY stun immunity they will never dodge any stun/panic/terrify. Rogues have stuns, f.e. from myth bow proc, warriors have tons of stuns (f.e. glitched maul, axe throw) + samaels AA = gg, mage dead... without any chance to even release one skill... The stun class mage gets stunlocked by the tank class without the chance to dodge this while the tank class can break slowdowns and stuns with juggernaut? Really?

At the end of the day the stun class mage comes out as the weakest stun class involving stun and its imunity... a joke!

summary: warriors have advantage in terms of hp, armor, stun, stun imunity, with VB and its insane crit the damageoutput is equal to a mage and now they also have a far better permanent curse... Whats the point of this?

A good rogue can kill all 3 classes, a good warrior can kill all 3 classes, the best mages can only kill 2 classes, he cant kill good warriors... WHY?

So thats the point i call the class balance a joke because it is a jooke!

ps: Make an endgame mage and do some pvp then you now why we all cry and also dont forget im really no noob, im no. 4 on tdm leaderboard with a lot of experience since early 2013!

[Anarchist]

Yes Yes. Those glitches should indeed be fixed
But overall the balance is still working. For a section of the game that comes second like pvp the problems in it are overlooked and pve issues get fixed first for sts imo as long as the balance is overall respected then no problemo.
Of course it would be cool if everything was perfectly matched and balanced, Well its not BUT its still playable. It still works.

[Robhawk]

Yes Yes. Those glitches should indeed be fixed
But overall the balance is still working. For a section of the game that comes second like pvp the problems in it are overlooked and pve issues get fixed first for sts imo as long as the balance is overall respected then no problemo.
Of course it would be cool if everything was perfectly matched and balanced, Well its not BUT its still playable. It still works.

Sure its playable and a lot of fun as warrior and rogue but not as mage... the class balance is fine for rogues and warriors but not for mages so why should we accept that? We payed the same amount of money for plats as other classes so we can expect having the same fun? Is that so hard to accept from your point of view?

The real bad thing is the time periods, i repeat myself, OP maul for a year!!! TDM rogue glitch at least half a year, myth gun nerfed for no reason weeks after release... LOL ?!!?!? So known problems with rogue class and warrior class takes STS VERY long periods of time... while these periods those classes have a loooooot offf fuuuunnn because they are OP! The mages just get no positive glichtes which should be fixed, so no extra fun... but they get nerfs even nobody asked for in no time? L O L ?!?!?!!?!?

How about that: Just implement 2 glitches for mage class for the next 8 month:

1. Our heal also adds full upgraded 10seconds of warriors juggernaut!
2. Our lightning strike crits like aimed shot!

This sounds like a lot of fun to me... we should do this! HAHAHA !!!

[falmear]

The point most people miss in all of these discussions in that mage should be a class based on controlling effects. Right now mages have only 2 weak controlling effects.

1) First is stun through fireball or gale followed by stun immunity. So in any clash or 1v1 the first stun only matters.
2) Slow down/snare effects such as ice/time shift. This is only effective against rogues to keep them from their packs.
3) I don't consider curse a controlling effect because it doesn't stop people from attacking or limit their movements. It just affects which skills they decide to attack with. Curse affects mages more then other classes because mages has highest damage stat, more skills with DOT damage & more skills with AOE damage.

So this is why the old mythic gun and new mythic gun (pre-nerf) were useful because it adds another control effect. And this is why arcane staff basically sucked. Every time you nerf mages controlling effects you are nerfing their defenses aka armor. Every single suggestions I have seen is basically making mages a crappier version of a rogue or a even worse version of a tank. Strengthen mages control effects and you have a more interesting and fun class to play. And will not make it so when some other class has OP damage/effect they completely run over mages.

Also every time you give other classes access to the same skills mages have through weapons and pets you pretty much weaken mages and devalue their roll in PvP. Also other classes controlling effects should be limited as well. Warriors have OP armor & health. Rogues have OP damage and can increase their health without sacrificing their healing. Both classes have skills which can limit movement impairing effects. So this should be all taken into consideration and be balanced. Don't make a mage just another rogue.

[Anarchist]

Lol the time periods are already slow for PVE side of the game talkless pvp.....anyway i dont think sts hate mages, most of the glitches are solved cronologically as the players point them out and discuss em.

[Bigboyblue]

Lol the time periods are already slow for PVE side of the game talkless pvp.....anyway i dont think sts hate mages, most of the glitches are solved cronologically as the players point them out and discuss em.

I would agree, STS certainly doesn't hate mages. I'm sure they don't hate any person that plays their games. In a perfect world they would create content that makes everyone happy and I'm sure this is what they are trying to do each and every time. They don't set out to make anyone angry. Happy players may even spend some money on the game, you usually don't do that when you are angry. Hence it is and always will be in STS best interest to keep their players happy.

I get the feeling that STS is scared to make any adjustments to mages because they are afraid of making rogues and warriors angry. This is a legitimate concern. Why make 2/3 of your player base mad. I suppose it's better to keep the 1/3 angry instead. That being said, I think we as players need to keep demanding a change. I have seen numerous rogues and warriors posting about how underpowered mages are. People who pvp know this all but too well. Whether you are a twink or end game player it is very apparent(more so at twink levels).

STS needs to make a change to this class. I've made a recommendation on how to improve our shield by a simple change to the damage absorption calculation(this is the main recommendation I saw in the class balance thread). It isn't a major change and won't lead to outrage(I keep thinking about the bulwark here lol). I'd like to get a response to a dev on this idea. Why can't this change be done now? Will we be waiting 6 months for a change? Are mages getting a buff? I think we at least deserve to know what is going on.

[Serancha]

We were patient since this game was released, im not anymore!

Losing your patience does not make the time it takes to code any less. Things take time to accomplish, and yelling at a developer does not get them accomplished any faster. Trust me, I am one so I can attest to it.

The game needs new content so badly it's not even funny. Class balance is mostly a pvp issue, and pvp is a cesspool of drama and childish crap. Why put time into that when there is a huge player base waiting to spend money on elixirs and resurrections as soon as they get something new? What does pvp get them? Plat farmers who did nothing to get their gear but open crates for free? I wouldn't be focussed on pvp either if it was me.

[octavos]

Classes are balanced..oh wait I don't PVP or do elite or even arena matches...so i'm ok with how things are...All i want is new features and vanities of course...because thats all that matters to me.

Pets, armors, weapons...to me are all items that don't mean much if you cant run normal maps. Everyone has there own objective in any MMO...mine just happens to save me money.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W39TtF14i8I&list=PLB9B0CA00461BB187&index=207
couldn't hep myself..nice video...off topic XD

:ghost:

[Robhawk]

@Serancha: I can agree with the things you said, im it consultant and also did some coding...
The consequence of this is that i have to leave the game because they dont care for things that are important to me... and this has happened since 2 weeks now and i have no need to log in AL. Looks like the addiction is already gone... good for me bad for STS`s money bag!

The thing is i dont need STS to stay alive but STS needs customers like me to not die and the number of unsatisfied players leaving day by day cant be overlooked but as i said they have their priorities and i have mine, gg! ;)

[aarrgggggg]

Bulwark curse has a proc rate of 100%, that needs to go plain and simple.
5 seconds of not being able to attack = a dead mage.

Most often the best defense is a strong offense,
Bulwark curse makes that impossible for the squoooshy blue dudes.

As a mage that was just cursed i have 2 choices.....attack and die or dont attack and die.
Either way it doesnt end well for the mage.

Overall mages are far underpowered in pvp wether we lack armor and hp or maybe just ramp up the damage on mages,
in order to make a mages best defense.....offense
somethings def need 2 be changed up for the blue dudes

Terrify/panic needs to have an automatic immunity similar to stuns

[falmear]

Losing your patience does not make the time it takes to code any less. Things take time to accomplish, and yelling at a developer does not get them accomplished any faster. Trust me, I am one so I can attest to it.

The game needs new content so badly it's not even funny. Class balance is mostly a pvp issue, and pvp is a cesspool of drama and childish crap. Why put time into that when there is a huge player base waiting to spend money on elixirs and resurrections as soon as they get something new? What does pvp get them? Plat farmers who did nothing to get their gear but open crates for free? I wouldn't be focussed on pvp either if it was me.

Your assuming class balance and new content can't be developed and tested in parallel. If they only have one developer on AL then its a problem. Otherwise, its not really an excuse these issues have been outstanding for a very long time. People are fed up now.

[UndeadJudge]

Just saying, the amount of damage you deal under curse is irrelevant - curse does the same amount of damage for autos as skills.

Mages could be better tbh...their CC damage is laughable, Bulwark curses, and they die in 1-2 shots easily.

My suggestions:

1) Stun immunity on shield - pretty much what everyone wants.

2) Last 2 upgrades on heal should return a fixed amount of health and mana, or these upgrades should just be changed.

3) have lightning's AoE upgrade be changed to a smaller % but chance on every charged light to hit all enemies.

4) Increase charged ice's slow to be as strong as a time shift

5) Stop telling mages to "play their class better".

I think all of these will help mage's performance in clash by giving them more CC and more supportive presence.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bigboyblue]

I'd be happy if we just received an increase to our shield. Undeadjudge has some great recommendations above but I can't see STS implementing multiple improvements at one time. Make our shield have a stun immunity upgrade and absorb more damage. One thing for the time being, to see how it improves our game play. This doesn't need to take months to do.

[Haligali]

Your assuming class balance and new content can't be developed and tested in parallel. If they only have one developer on AL then its a problem. Otherwise, its not really an excuse these issues have been outstanding for a very long time. People are fed up now.

Bulwark (mythic weapon) buff and planar arena developed in same time, kershal scepter (arcane weapon) got just a useless reduced charging time.

[will0]

great they always close our thread i.e kershal needs buff or delete them.... i am not paying anymore platinum too, only login only 1hr a day to chat with people.

Me and some ex AL friend are playing heroes charge !! join us

[falmear]

So what game are you guys playing now? I recently tried Celtic heroes and Order & Chaos (again) but I couldn't get into them cuz the quests really drag.

A lot of former al players are playing order and chaos now. When I left al some people followed. However I'm kind of over onc because the user community is pretty bad (just read their forums), too much pay to win, loot system is ridiculous, and many more reasons. Right now I'm playing age of wushu. Which is a bit different spin on your traditional hack and slash mmo. But it's not mobile. The next mobile mmo I'm keeping an eye out for is Albion online which is currently in alpha. Pretty much all free to play games are heavily pay to win so don't expect too much either. But I'll jump on it once its released.

[Arpluvial]

Hey guys,

We do appreciate all of your feedback, but let's make sure we are keeping it constructive. :) I am going to go ahead and lock this thread. Please use the official class thread referenced in the original post. Positive or negative, we want your constructive feedback.

Thank You,
Arp