The problem with mages

[aarrgggggg]

ok so i think i've figured out why mages have always been at a disadvantage in pvp

While comparing stats of an endgame elo bow rogue and myself, an endgame elo gun mage

Ive found that rogues have just as much if not more damage and dps then an equivalent lvl mage
This i feel is the fundamental problem.

Mages, as the weakest defensive class should have the highest damage/dps
Each class has its own unique characteristics, and as a mage the tradeoff should be health and armor for damage
Currently its not, because rogues who have 50% more hp and armor have the same amount of damage as us squishy mages.

Since mages are at such a disadvantage in the hp/armor department it should be us the mages who have the ability to 1 or 2 shot other players in pvp
not rogues.

On 1 extreme we have warriors, very high armor and health but low damage.
On the opposite end of the spectrum we have mages, very low health and armor but high damage/dps
Then we have the "MIDDLE CLASS" rogues, the most balanced class, not the best at hp and armor, and also should not be the best at damage/dps.
But heres the fault, rogues DO have the most damage/dps and they shouldnt.

Give a big damage buff to mages.....this should even the playing field abit, considering thats how it should be......

Warriors clearly excel at there end of the spectrum, shouldnt mages do the same but at the opposite end of the spectrum?


Currently they dont


Class balance has been all wrong from the word go.....implement this and you will start to see an actual balancing of classes.

[ClumsyCactus]

No offense, but last time i checked rogues are the damage class,warriors the tanks, and mages the spells/area damage class.
It is a bit riddiculous that rogues have that much tankiness, and that warriors have huge damage, but i don't think that buffing mages is the best Way to go about it, since i would for an example never run into a Clash without atleast one of each class. Not that i pvp alot, but just my opinion.

[aarrgggggg]

No offense, but last time i checked rogues are the damage class,warriors the tanks, and mages the spells/area damage class.
It is a bit riddiculous that rogues have that much tankiness, and that warriors have huge damage, but i don't think that buffing mages is the best Way to go about it, since i would for an example never run into a Clash without atleast one of each class. Not that i pvp alot, but just my opinion.
Thats my point rogues should not be the damage class.........the class with the weakest hp and armor, should be the damage class.

Think like this.....the exact opposite of a warrior.

[Raregem]

Thats my point rogues should not be the damage class.........the class with the weakest hp and armor, should be the damage class.

Think like this.....the exact opposite of a warrior.

What use would rogues be then?

[aarrgggggg]

the "BALANCED" class....the way it should be

[Candylicks]

What the mages have asked for many many many times isn't a dmg buff but rather a shorter CD on shield OR it lasting longer. This won't change the role of a mage, let's face it our specialty was never meant to be single target damage like rogue. But give us a little more chance to herp derp in PvP or mobs in PvE. That slight adjustment would make mages a LOT happier.

[Deadroth]

I'm glad You understand Us, Argy :)

[illwilly]

+1

illevil 41tank ekkorn 41rogue illwilly 41mage illvill 41mage smokalott 41mage and more..

[Rhaindra]

Aarrgggggg. 100% true

[Ihateppl]

I think it would be nice to actually have a chance to survive in pvp for once. Most mages just dont even try to fight when they see a maxed out rogue or tank plummeting towards them, just put and shield and run. Only to get a filled with arrows :/

[ClumsyCactus]

Thats my point rogues should not be the damage class.........the class with the weakest hp and armor, should be the damage class.

Think like this.....the exact opposite of a warrior.

Well, then why dont we buff warriors damage and dps, because they are horrible at tombs!
And my mana always runs out, give us rogues a mana buff!
I honestly think that mages should maybe get a slight armor buff in pvp, at Max...

[epicrrr]

Mages are good on the Area of effect damage, rogues hits hard but only on a single target. Ill take mage anytime on PVE and a mage who knows his role on PVP

[Zeus]

Rogues have always been addressed as the highest single target damage dealers by developers, not as the balanced class just as nott have never been intended as the support class but as a fully capable AOE machine.

Now, mages do have the highest damage and DPS on the stat screen. I am not sure which rogue you were comparing but as maxed stats versus a maxed sorcerer, my stats on screen are much lower in terms of damage and DPS.

Secondly, rogues do not have 50% more health and armor than sorcerers. As a rogue, I have 4.6k health but in order to achieve that, I have sacrificed about 16 points of damage. This is totally possible as a sorcerer as well through the use of the right gems. So please, keep in mind that builds are very diverse, unique, and creative.

I think that you are pushing on a different version of balance which the game has never intended..ever. Your suggestion of balance generally works well in fighter games and MOBA but in MMOs, each class has a specific role so balance ends up functioning differently.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts & opinions. I hope you appreciate mine as well!

[Visiting]

105006105007
Top geared mage stats, enjoy :) (No buffs of any kind)

[Anarchist]

#1Next time post it in the balance thread.
#2 Mages are not as weak as they wanna make everyone think. Few corrections and they will be on the same level as the other two classes.
When i talk about corrections i dont mean to buff them so they can kill warriors. I am talkin about giving them all the necessary aid to easily kill a rogue except in the case the rogue is extremely skilled and top geared.

Stun immunity or more damage assorbed while sheild is up and mages will be fine.

#3 As for the bulwark, it requires a well thought nerf, though the buff process was longely debated.
Its a must the curse remains. Doesnt matter if its a mage skill but the reflected damage or the proc rate of the weapon can be reduced. 100% is even too much for a mythic weapon.

[Candylicks]

Yes what Z said too, Rogues don't have more hp/armor than Mage but in PvE they have 50% dodge making them a more hybrid class. However, we know that in PvP rogue's can't dodge (visit rogue forums if you disagree with this statement). Class balance if tricky, we all seem to have our opinions. I really think Rogues are pretty freaking awesome, warriors too (minus their new 100% curse on charge... w t h ??), mages just need a small tweak. Hello shield improvement?!

[aarrgggggg]

#1 Well i would have put this in the balance thread, but it is currently locked, so i put it here instead.

#2 I am not exactly sure the exact % more armor and hp a rogue has over a mage.....50% probably is a bit of an exagerration, however rogues def do have more.

#3 In my opinion.....mages should have the best damage/dps for both aoe and single target, because they are the weakest in defense they should be the strongest on offense period.

#4 If mages DO have the highest damage and dps, explain 2 me why a rogue can 1 shot an equally geared mage, but a mage cannot 1 shot an equally geared mage.
Theres something wrong with that, if the stats ARE higher than we should be able to 1 shot other mages as well, the truth is we cant.

#5 Keep in mind rogues have a damage nerf in pvp and they STILL 1 shot mages who are equally geared

[Amadorbibidor]

+1.

Nice arg

[ClumsyCactus]

#3 In my opinion.....mages should have the best damage/dps for both aoe and single target, because they are the weakest in defense they should be the strongest on offense period.

It's just that i don't agree with this part... To be honest, i see mages without arcane ring run around with damage kits and get 600+ damage! and im a rogue Who can barely get 500, (i dont have super gems tho)
If anything, their damage should be decreased to make it fair for rogues, Who, as someone Said, is supposed to be the class with huge single target damage.
To add more armor and HP to mages is a +1, but add damage is in my opinion not soloing anything

[Amadorbibidor]

It's just that i don't agree with this part... To be honest, i see mages without arcane ring run around with damage kits and get 600+ damage! and im a rogue Who can barely get 500, (i dont have super gems tho)
If anything, their damage should be decreased to make it fair for rogues, Who, as someone Said, is supposed to be the class with huge single target damage.
To add more armor and HP to mages is a +1, but add damage is in my opinion not soloing anything

So then if they add hp to mages what? They become blue rogues. Class have to be different bro. You rogues maybe have 50-100 dmg less but your dps is very high and your bows throw one hit the mage. Also you have a lot more hp. What do you preffer? 50+ dmg or 1000+ hp and 400+ armor? I've thought so.

[Titanium]

Mages in PvP. Oh boy. People should understand that pvp doesn't mean 1v1

If you want to 1v1 then level up a rogue/tank too and have fun of randomn crits.

My main character it's a rogue. I leveled up a mage only for pvp/clashes. And i personally loving it. I can't wait to buy a elon gun to get in pvp asap.

I'm from a guild where 99% of people are only pvping. How many times I've seen "mage join" ? Hundreds.

Not only mages need a class balance. Every class needs some balance.


Next thread should be " More mana for rogues "

[Amadorbibidor]

Mages in PvP. Oh boy. People should understand that pvp doesn't mean 1v1

If you want to 1v1 then level up a rogue/tank too and have fun of randomn crits.

My main character it's a rogue. I leveled up a mage only for pvp/clashes. And i personally loving it. I can't wait to buy a elon gun to get in pvp asap.

I'm from a guild where 99% of people are only pvping. How many times I've seen "mage join" ? Hundreds.

Not only mages need a class balance. Every class needs some balance.


Next thread should be " More mana for rogues "

You Sir is a genius lul.. No but seriously, nice duh ;)

[merchtime]

i agree, i have 60 more damage than the average expedition recurve rogue, they can one hit K.O me but it takes beetween 4-5 skill to kill one of them. Even if my stats show much more damage its not true.

i have maxed gear (not mythic gun-arcane ring) but even like that fights against: warrior take forever.
I think a 15%/20% damage buff for mages would be great for us and it wouldnt make us op.

[illwilly]

Fun how when mages say their opinion, rogues has to yell: nonono, what about my rogue pvp kills, my dummy smurfs cant be buffed..(thats what i read between the lines).

[Appeltjes]

As you were saying every class is good on it's own area and for a mage that is crowd control, rogues are focussed on damaging a single target which in pvp is more beneficial then crowd control.

[aarrgggggg]

Lol im certainly not trying to start a class war or any sort of flaming by any means.

Recently devs have asked for input regarding class balance....specifically for "those squoooshy little blue dudes"

I think, (i could be wrong) that mages were meant to be exactly this.....squishy low armor low hp blue dudes.....but also the creme de la creme when it comes to damage dealing.

So what i am suggesting is that mages fulfill the role that i believe they were originally intended for.

In all reality i believe this game was planned for a lvl 31 cap or 36 at the most......yet here we are at lvl 41.
Devs have already stated that they want to overhaul the skills portion of this game, and also class balance before AL will ever receive another level cap.

With that said, devs ask yourselves this.... (if you are reading this) Is this the original role intended for mages?

[iSunx]

Your so op bro 👍

[Caabatric]

Rogues actually do more dmg than what there stat screens show. (they do the most dmg of all classes)
There aim shot radically increases dmg output.

Giving mage more dmg is pointless cause then it will lead to class dis-balance.
Lightning on a geared mage can take out about 30-50+% health out on a rogue with a cd of 3 seconds.
Now arguing that aim has a 2 sec cd and does about 2* more dmg is pointless because we have a shield that gives 2 sec of invulnerability. When did rogues have that season x and the weapon is now completely outdated.

Overall the only buff that mages need is a SLIGHT health buff of about 10%. I would prefer health since it helps our shield considerably.
I play mage class as a main. I have some limited experience as a rogue and war.

Now bring on the hate..

[Instanthumor]

105006105007
Top geared mage stats, enjoy :) (No buffs of any kind)

Top gear = need wisdoms in gun, ring, and ammy... also should use samael since most top geared people would use sam

note: I did not "question" you


Mages in PvP. Oh boy. People should understand that pvp doesn't mean 1v1

If you want to 1v1 then level up a rogue/tank too and have fun of randomn crits.

My main character it's a rogue. I leveled up a mage only for pvp/clashes. And i personally loving it. I can't wait to buy a elon gun to get in pvp asap.

I'm from a guild where 99% of people are only pvping. How many times I've seen "mage join" ? Hundreds.

Not only mages need a class balance. Every class needs some balance.


Next thread should be " More mana for rogues "

Want more mana? Spec int. As far as mage's low armor value, there's not much we can do.

[Titanium]

Want more mana? Spec int. As far as mage's low armor value, there's not much we can do.


That was sarcasm.

[Instanthumor]

That was sarcasm.

I was being serious lol oh wells

[illwilly]

As you were saying every class is good on it's own area and for a mage that is crowd control, rogues are focussed on damaging a single target which in pvp is more beneficial then crowd control.

Mage crowd control, when did we loose it in pvp? Did wind stun 4sec if improved or lightning 25% on charged ever worked in pvp or frost and all its improvments? Fireball imp stuns to and ts improved stuns.. could probably go on, but whats the point. Stun imunity make us no good at crowd control in pvp.
So i ask as the OP. Sts. How is mages ment to be? Ive read what Arcane Legends page say about them, dont feel its right.. in advanced, thanks for listening to our imputs..:)

[Newcomx]

Just see the LB... that's the reason why Sorc need improvement...

[Arachnophobik]

Buffing a mage's dmg is a no go imo. Rogues may kill a lot but they dont have a shield nor an ability to aoe stun enemies. Ive seen a mage nail 2 rogues at the same time on a race to 20 at the previous tdm(unnerfed rogues). Ive seen max geared mages hit me like a rogue. Maybe just a slightly longer shield duration or a slightly shorter shield cooldown will do good. Or a lil armor buff instead.