Bulwark

[Khicho]

Im not sure why my last post was taken down so quickly as I did not break any of the posting rules. All I did was simply point the obvious truths.

Sts did a great job on the Bulwark! I can understand minor changes being made to it but it was literally taken from an amazing warrior weapon to worthless. Unless you are a PVE only player then I guess all is good. Just so we are clear with this change it now procs about 1 out of 50 swings and when it does it is completely ineffective.

If this was really such an issue then why dont you just change the proc????

Not to mention this change will cost many of your players millions in gold.

There was nothing wrong with the Bulwark! It balanced pvp because with it Rogues no longer dominated everyone!

[InternetExplorer]

Its STS... what do you expect... :)

No one complained of the proc when the weapon was first introduced.
No one complained of the proc when the beta servers went up and the weapon was buffed.

Then many complained when the final buff was given to the weapon.

And now...

Seriously...

[Raregem]

It needed to be nerfed a LITTLE I think they just went a tad overboard. It was doing 250-260 dmg per hit when the curse was active now it does 85-95. It did take about 20 tries to get it to proc on charge.

To me the ideal solution would have been to cut the dmg to 170-180 and the 100% rate should of been brought down to about 80%.

Now it's just an eh weapon for pvp. What really should have happened imo is mages should have received a buff to their shield. But, it is what it is now.

[Khicho]

You do not know what you are talking about.

The real issue was not the bulwark. It is class imbalances.

The Bulwark was easily beatable by a skilled rogue and as for mages.. What really changed? Mages could never beat a tank to start with. The bulwark leveled the playing ground in ctf because it checked rogues.

It was fine to tweak it but it was more than tweaked it was made completely useless in pvp.

When Sts made new mythic wepons for rogues and mages did they make them so they were only useful in pve and not in pvp as well? No they didnt. So why is it okay that it is done to warriors?

The real issue here is Mages need to be revamped.

[SacredKnight]

Welcome guys to AL where everything is subject to change ;)

[InternetExplorer]

How it became OP???

if you see 5 bulwark users in PVP in the same team will you still dare to join the fray?? Its common sense.

The proc charging time in a single vs battle takes a long time and its hard to aim properly.


Some folks just dont want the change to be not on their favor thats why the weapon was re-nerfed back to its original state or maybe worse.
Its the forums, as long as we follow the rules and only expressing what we think needs to be expressed we are free to talk about it.

[InternetExplorer]

welcome guys to al where everything is subject to change ;)

your stats today ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGES!

[Samaeldavisjr]

It needed to be nerfed a LITTLE I think they just went a tad overboard. It was doing 250-260 dmg per hit when the curse was active now it does 85-95. It did take about 20 tries to get it to proc on charge.

To me the ideal solution would have been to cut the dmg to 170-180 and the 100% rate should of been brought down to about 80%.

Now it's just an eh weapon for pvp. What really should have happened imo is mages should have received a buff to their shield. But, it is what it is now.

I guess we Warriors are back to Level 36 PVP weps...... awesome.

[Ravager]

How it became OP???

if you see 5 bulwark users in PVP in the same team will you still dare to join the fray?? Its common sense.

The proc charging time in a single vs battle takes a long time and its hard to aim properly.


Some folks just dont want the change to be not on their favor thats why the weapon was re-nerfed back to its original state or maybe worse.
Its the forums, as long as we follow the rules and only expressing what we think needs to be expressed we are free to talk about it.

I agree. Its possibly worse than the original bulwark. Old mythic glaive may be better which makes no sense. If they needed to nerf it they should have done the proc rate or the damage. Not both. They need to increase the time it takes to charge too. Im sure the 100 % proc rate was there to somewhat compensate for the long charge time.

[Im back dudes]

Get Real.
You warriors have claymore, glaive, bonesaw, and maul and can easily kill mages with those.
us mages are only decent with staff and gun.
Quit acting like its the end of the world because you guys didnt give a damn about bulwark when it first came out.
then it got godly then nerfed and all the sudden you get butthurt.
Still have a selection of 4 other weopons and you should of known it would of got a nerf soon due to the crying about it. not your fault youve wasted 15m

[Jexetta]

The problem is that the gear hasn't followed a logical order for Warriors at all.

The Nordr expansion was released in April of 2013 with the release of the Arcane Maul. That weapon has been a legitimate weapon to use for 1-1/2 years. Due in part to the glitched proc which only till recently was finally fixed. This weapon has been seriously usable for 1-1/2 years. Compare that to Arcane hooks which were released in February of 2013 those were usable for 6 months at the most.

Next for warriors they got the Pavise which honestly was usable for 1 week. I can't remember exactly when it was released but I want to say... June of 2013? It has a horrible range just like the bulwark - people were running around with the mauls from Oltgar instead. The Pavise is one of my favorite looking weapons but if a tank knew how to use health potions I would take a tank with more damage in elites back then over a Pavise tank all day.

Next we have the Glaive and Bonesaw. Released in what... September 2013? This is yet another weapon that is still usable today and is easily one of the best weapons for a tank. You can still use this weapon and it's been out for A YEAR! Compare that to the old mythic weapons that rogues and mages had - those weapons just aren't that great anymore, let alone useable to the degree that a warrior can. Try running around with mythic daggers to an Elondrian bow or an orbital staff to an Elondrian gun.

Next we had the gear staggering and the dragkin teeth weapons which required you to farm for weeks to save up enough teeth. The dragkin teeth axe for the warrior is laughable the dragkin teeth daggers are slightly better but still - the magma weapons are far better than something that takes LONGER to farm. The time put into farming an item should tie directly into the items worth, and yet those weapons seem to just fill a vanity slot.

So then we have the Bulwark, it seems to begin following the exact same path that I predicted it would with the Pavise and then you magically fix it to make it usable only to throw this weapon in the scrap bin again right next to the Pavise a couple weeks later.

What's going on here? The gear staggering just doesn't seem to be happening especially when it comes to warriors. We're defaulting back on weapons used in the Kraken expansion? Warriors are really in some ways lucky they can use these old weapons, but that doesn't mean it makes a lick of sense. The Bulwark should have some power - you don't need a Bulwark tank to tank elites. At this point just use the crate sword and shield if you can't use health potions or time your skills properly. The Bulwark really does deserve to have some power, what you've done here is take a step backward from the right direction.

[falmear]

There was nothing wrong with the Bulwark! It balanced pvp because with it Rogues no longer dominated everyone!

Sounds like rogues need a nerf.

[Ravager]

Rogue mythics
41 bow > 36 daggers > 31 bow

Mage mythics
41 gun > 36 staff > 31 bow

Warrior mythics
41 bulwark <= 36 glaive > 31 pavise

[joydhillon]

*Just enjoying the mind boggling hap hazard decisions here.
Anyone want popcorn?

[aarrgggggg]

Im guessing the bulwark is more effective for pve than it was at its initial release, and so mission success i say

Sword and shield combos have never been known to be viable weapons for pvp because the damage is too low.....

Whats so hard to understand about that?

[Bloodskerr]

As a warrior, what I see here is people wanting a TANK weapon to have OFFENSIVE power. It's not a sword and sword people, its a sword and SHIELD. It's the weapon that gives most armor in the game. It's made to sustain damage, whether it be in pvp or pve.. Not auto kill mages or rogues.

Just...stahp. :|

[Ravager]

People don't wait seasons and spend millions on items to be restricted to PVE only. Not everyone is going to PVE to the point they break even to the value of the weapon. The value comes from PVP. Rogues don't have to debate whether to consider using a 41 bow or 36 daggers are better. Warriors have to revert to yesteryears weapons since those, for some odd reason, are better. So warriors who waited for the latest and greatest saw nothing to look forward to. If there's nothing to look forward to, its one of the reasons people quit the game.

[Jexetta]

'It needed to be nerfed a LITTLE I think they just went a tad overboard. It was doing 250-260 dmg per hit when the curse was active now it does 85-95. It did take about 20 tries to get it to proc on charge. - Raregem'

^ I'm assuming the proc on charge was on a rogue and from my experience I was able to proc on a rogue after an average of 4 tries pre-nerf, and post-buff. Which would make the effective percentage of hitting a rogue go from 25% to 5%. That coupled with the damage per hit being reduced 66% why even bother charging the bulwark to apply curse? That's like 30 seconds trying to apply curse just charging the bulwark alone. In PvP you would most likely be dead by then, and in PvE at that time I would kick you from the party.

The.. 'just stahp' is silly. I went over the entire reasoning why nerfing it is a silly idea above and why it makes little to no sense. Ravager made it even simpler to understand using greater than and less than symbols. The point is that before the offensive power came from an attack proc that was already hard to hit on a moving target due to the tiny range.

If they do re-release mythic weapons in some form like last year with a different skin, they might as well play a 'whaaa whaaaaa' if you open a crate and get a mythic bulwark.

No one is saying that the damage and dps should be upped on it - it's already low. The game needs to have diversity in how to play with different gear, but with the change that they just applied the only thing the bulwark is going to do is collect pixel dust in the auction and or your stash.

[Ravager]

Warriors can't have their cake and eat it too. You can't have like 7k+ hp, 2k+ armor and expect to kill like a rogue.

I was a proponent for nerfing the bulwark but I personally think they did it all wrong. I mentioned something like this in another post and I propose this as a good compromise:

Get rid of the curse factor all together. It's a mages skill for one and also curse is a bad proc because the window to kill a warrior is very small and people need to be able to attack. Instead, make it a bleeding DoT damage that does 80-100 damage per tick up to 5x. Increase the chance to proc (60%-75% ecause now it's too low) or instead increase the range of the weapon.

I think the bigger issue is that mages need to get buffed somehow but yeah I know what you mean shiny.

I imagine the bleeding would be worse. All bleeds can stack. Just like with Nightshade, the bleed stack was one of the best parts of that pet. You can't escape the bleed once it happens. Curse, you have the option to stop attacking (in most cases)

I would prefer what I suggested one of the few:

A) Chance to proc on charge 20%, uncharged 10% (that's my estimates of a normal proc on any other standard weapon) Same curse damage. Faster charge time.

B) Same slow charge proc, 100% proc, low curse damage like it is right now. 85 vs 250

[twoxc]

bulwark would have been fine if rogue didn't get Damage nerfed in both ctf and tdm lol. I swear just buff Mage, they need it the most.

[lowratehitman]

Lol I remember 3decent player (I was one of them) we couldn't kill him he was using a bulwark weapon we all die 2mins later because bunch of op and some bulwark user came I'm just literally destroyed us

[Avshow]

u still playing?


Sounds like rogues need a nerf.

[barzagli]

Like I said:

Launch the Bulwark in Elond and its useless. Then you guys Nerf the weapon and its an Op weapon, even kills mauler. Then you nerf Maul of Ollerus. We change to Bulwark. Then you nerf Bulwark it again so it became useless. I'd say why don't you scam us since the beginning. Good Game. This game is dead.

[Xeusx]

*Eating super mega ultra popcorns while watching this*

[falmear]

u still playing?

No. But I may start again if we can get and gem multiple Paracelsus Soul stones. Otherwise no point in coming back.

[Zylx]

*Eating super mega ultra popcorns while watching this*

Lol nab, share!!!

The only people complaining about the nerf are warriors who bought the bulwark. Mages are complaining about the warriors complaining, Rogues honestly dont care.

[kingofkings]

basically the point here is that mage cry so much that they can't kill a war on 1vs1 but they can easily kill a rouge with a bow on 1vs1 but they are not complaining about bows power, pvp is not a about 1vs1 its all about also team play and proper skill the recent updates on bullwark make a good balance on a clash and even on 1vs1 play.

[Samaeldavisjr]

basically the point here is that mage cry so much that they can't kill a war on 1vs1 but they can easily kill a rouge with a bow on 1vs1 but they are not complaining about bows power, pvp is not a about 1vs1 its all about also team play and proper skill the recent updates on bullwark make a good balance on a clash and even on 1vs1 play.

^^^^ +1

As other have said already... it wasnt the Bullwark buff that was the issue. Mages have been in need of a 'makeover' for a long time. Shouldve buffd daMages and left the Bullwark alone. Is there an echo in here?

[Zeus]

Making changes that influence the economy is not cool. It was a mistake with Singe-Nekro fiasco; it is a mistake now.

As customers, when can we expect this to stop? I'm tired of having to guess what will happen based on the amount of cry that goes on forums.

One thing that developers do not take into account is a lot of the complaints come from under geared players or those who lack knowledge to properly overcome their obstacles.

The bulwark - should it have been nerfed? IMO, no. It's easy to know when to stop attacking. You can't help if players do not utilize the amazing in game particle effects as clues to how their gameplay should be. The issue was and has always been sorderers. This is really just a cheap fix/band-aid for class balance. The question is: is it really cheap when it comes to the amount of players that you anger?

At least with Singe fiasco, STG gave Singe owners a bone so the prices did not come crashing down. However, in the current state, I dare say the bulwark may be just as bad as it was to begin with.

If warriors can beat sorcerers with weapons 3-4 seasons old - that shows the inherent flaws of the sorcerer class. It does not mean a weapon is OP just because warriors get a well deserved update.

Toss bulwark users a bone here...because right now, you just burned all the tank users in the game that have been using bulwark. It was actually nice to see tanks wearing sword/shield. I guess now, however, that is a thing of the past.

Repost from announcement section.

[raw]

I think the overarching issue here is the fickleness off STG. All I care about is that you are consistent in your updates/nerfs/buffs, etc. Please for the love of god stop nerfing and buffing weapons months, and even seasons after weapons come out. How long have they known about the Maul stun glitch? Did they not think that the Bulwark curse would be op when you released it? Is STG really that out of touch with the games that they haven't been able to see all of these GLARING issues? Please address the issues that are staring you in the face (nativex, sam panic overload, maul stun glitch, OP^2 SNS), instead of turning a blind eye and fixing these problems when the damage has already been done.

Anyway back to tanks...what motivation do I have to play my tank, which I invested over 40 million into? It's pretty useless now because Bonesaw/Glaive/Maul are going to shoot back up in price until you decided to say "oops we didn't mean to nerf bulwark so much. Here's another buff. hehe" and prices again fluctuate drastically.

As Jexetta said, why on god's earth are weapons from SEASONS ago still valid? A level 31 weapon should have no place at a lvl 41 cap.
As Zeus said, please stop listening to the cries of people on forums to make rushed decisions which are CLEARLY alienating your customers (reference to Barzagli's post).
As Shinytoy/Ravager agreed, the issue here is class balance, which has been stated about 100000000 times. MAGES NEED A BUFF. It's like talking to a wall...... I'd love to see a mod play a mage and go into pvp and try to go up against a 2.4k armor tank, or a 650 damage rogue. Maybe then you'll understand.

Anyway, as a customer I'm annoyed. As a business I'd expect you to provide us with, at the minimum, some consistency.

[Rare]

Repost from announcement section.

Great post. This is a lesson STS just isn't going to learn unfortunately. I suggested a long time ago, in fact, during that singe/nekro debacle that STS create some kind of focus group if they are going to make drastic changes to this game. My suggestion is to not make drastic changes at all. But geez... if you do... you can't flip flop. What it really shows your community is that you have no idea what you're doing. It looks bad when you over compensate in the first place. Then to reverse overcompensate...

I mean, STS can do whatever they want... but you know what they say about making your bed.

[Samaeldavisjr]

Great post. This is a lesson STS just isn't going to learn unfortunately. I suggested a long time ago, in fact, during that singe/nekro debacle that STS create some kind of focus group if they are going to make drastic changes to this game. My suggestion is to not make drastic changes at all. But geez... if you do... you can't flip flop. What it really shows your community is that you have no idea what you're doing. It looks bad when you over compensate in the first place. Then to reverse overcompensate...

I mean, STS can do whatever they want... but you know what they say about making your bed.

well said Raw. +1 thanks

[Samaeldavisjr]

Repost from announcement section.

+1 Zues. thanks

[Sorcerie]

Sooo you think mages will get buffed?

That seems to be the general consensus about pvp in this thread made for the bulwark, Lol.

I say cut 10 seconds off the shield cooldown and then see how well mages do in pvp against a warr

[lethaljade]

I think the overarching issue here is the fickleness off STG. All I care about is that you are consistent in your updates/nerfs/buffs, etc. Please for the love of god stop nerfing and buffing weapons months, and even seasons after weapons come out. How long have they known about the Maul stun glitch? Did they not think that the Bulwark curse would be op when you released it? Is STG really that out of touch with the games that they haven't been able to see all of these GLARING issues? Please address the issues that are staring you in the face (nativex, sam panic overload, maul stun glitch, OP^2 SNS), instead of turning a blind eye and fixing these problems when the damage has already been done.

Anyway back to tanks...what motivation do I have to play my tank, which I invested over 40 million into? It's pretty useless now because Bonesaw/Glaive/Maul are going to shoot back up in price until you decided to say "oops we didn't mean to nerf bulwark so much. Here's another buff. hehe" and prices again fluctuate drastically.

As Jexetta said, why on god's earth are weapons from SEASONS ago still valid? A level 31 weapon should have no place at a lvl 41 cap.
As Zeus said, please stop listening to the cries of people on forums to make rushed decisions which are CLEARLY alienating your customers (reference to Barzagli's post).
As Shinytoy/Ravager agreed, the issue here is class balance, which has been stated about 100000000 times. MAGES NEED A BUFF. It's like talking to a wall...... I'd love to see a mod play a mage and go into pvp and try to go up against a 2.4k armor tank, or a 650 damage rogue. Maybe then you'll understand.

Anyway, as a customer I'm annoyed. As a business I'd expect you to provide us with, at the minimum, some consistency.


This is exactly the point all of us are trying to make, everything is constantly being changed, buffed nerfed, buffed nerfed, this games unreliable and that's why towns r dead and player inactivity is at its highest. You bring things out as op and then your say ah no its op, better nerf this weapon, Lol , im sorry but im am also very disappointed, the content this year has been better then most, but with the gear/pets your doing too much, without thinking properly, if stuff carrys on like this, im pretty sure the remaining players playing, won't be either, I anticipate the same sort of thing for Halloween, I won't even run the event in case you nerf/ whatever u bring out making us waste 3 weeks of our time again.

[Ihateppl]

Im gonna go sharpen some of my green and blue staffs, and go stab some warriors in the knee shin with them in pvp.

[aarrgggggg]

Everyone should have saw this coming...... I did.

A 100% proc rate that made mages totally helpless for a whole 5 seconds.......

No weapons have/ should have a 100% proc rate.
Warriors used curse as a fifth skill slot also making it unfair.

Besides that did you really expect to be able to use a sword/shield combo in pvp and actually kill with it?????
Its not a killing weapon its a defensive weapon.

Quite honestly anyone who did not see this coming must have had rose colored glasses on.

The real problem lies in that when the bulwark was buffed, it should never have gotten a 100% proc rate.
Look at sts track record when they release new content or, buff/nerf something.
It never turns out as originally intended and always needs an adjustment

Archon rings ring a bell? Hows about during shuyal first release....the dagger farming..... The list goes on and on.

[Anarchist]

^Stupid mistakes that should never happen.

Every other mmorpg i have played the mods/dev listen to technical bugs not the cries of one class or another.

This the game with the biggest forum power i have ever played, it honestly seem when a part cries and cries long enough they get whatever they want.
In other games i play new contents have 0 exploits except you hack and the new contents are perfectly blended with the older ones.
Perfectly blended doesnt mean "Oh i farmed 3 weeks no sleep no food no bath for this pet, so sts it gotta be overpowered as f*"
Nein.
Perfectly balanced is realeasing new stuff and simply makin em better than the previous without exagerating the power distance.

Thats it.

So more testing and less feedbacks imo.

[Rare]

^Stupid mistakes that should never happen.

Every other mmorpg i have played the mods/dev listen to technical bugs not the cries of one class or another.

This the game with the biggest forum power i have ever played, it honestly seem when a part cries and cries long enough they get whatever they want.
In other games i play new contents have 0 exploits except you hack and the new contents are perfectly blended with the older ones.
Perfectly blended doesnt mean "Oh i farmed 3 weeks no sleep no food no bath for this pet, so sts it gotta be overpowered as f*"
Nein.
Perfectly balanced is realeasing new stuff and simply makin em better than the previous without exagerating the power distance.

Thats it.

So more testing and less feedbacks imo.

Every once in a while you make a good argument

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Anarchist]

Every once in a while you make a good argument

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I will take that as a compliment =]

[utpal]

bulwark not for pvp. y people want to use in pvp. its good that bulwark is back to square one.

[Thalian22]

Fail release then bufff then nerf..... ZzzzZzzzz nerf buff nerf buff nerf buff changing economy changing quality of games .... Wariors got 2 nerf items maul and bulwark hows that lol ...

[Rare]

bulwark not for pvp. y people want to use in pvp. its good that bulwark is back to square one.

I just think its funny then that Warriors get a mythic weapon that is usuable for both PVE/PVP every two cycles when other classes get them every cycle.

[spimeslam]

Warriors have to suffer and own both of the types of weapon.. so if you go to elite use bulwark and if you want to pvp use maul or glaive/saw. This sucks truly.. when are mages and rogues going to have to sacrifice their validity and effectiveness in parts of the game from choosing what weapon they use.. they wont have to. There is always a obvious choice for them, warriors must pick and choose just what kind of warrior they will be through the weapon they accept.