Quick question regarding Dodge.

[Fractite]

If you have 47 Dodge, does that mean that you have a 47 percent chance of dodging a single attack?

[Sheugokin]

Yep, I'm pretty sure that is how it works.

[Fractite]

Cheers.

[CrimsonTider]

Not going to try to explain it, but the percentage of dodge you have is not an independent variable. There have been multiple tests (search forums titles for "dodge") and the general conclusion is hit/crit play a factor into how much you actually dodge. We use to be blessed with players like Physiologic, Lovenus, MoogerFooger, and others who actually spent time testing "stats" to inform the community.

Now we just have a bunch of turds who love to use the word "cry."

[largecommand]

Not going to try to explain it, but the percentage of dodge you have is not an independent variable. There have been multiple tests (search forums titles for "dodge") and the general conclusion is hit/crit play a factor into how much you actually dodge. We use to be blessed with players like Physiologic, Lovenus, MoogerFooger, and others who actually spent time testing "stats" to inform the community.

Now we just have a bunch of turds who love to use the word "cry."
Amen

[Suentous PO]

Now we just have a bunch of turds who love to use the word "cry."

If we could still quote ppl in our sig I would so cop this one

On point; here's some quotes from Phisio-
This guide:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?16817-Guide-to-Advanced-Mechanics-in-PL-DPS-Crits-etc.&highlight=boss+guide

(His first thoughts)Therefore, if enemy DODGE is 53 and your hit% is 135, you go down to an 82% chance to hit an enemy.

(After testing his hypothesis)These results are very confusing. My initial hypothesis of Dodge calcuation was incorrect because I failed to hit enemies almost as frequently as before. Enemy rates of DODGEing didn't decrease, and my total successful hit percentage was similar to previous results (82% versus 85%).

Westpsy suggested that it may be possible that there is a Hit% cap, or a point where it doesn't matter how much Hit% you have, you will still miss an enemy; I am inclined to believe this as well. Your true Hit% may be 82-85% in Close Encounters, and won't be able to increase beyond that.

It's interesting to note that I MISSed 30.5% less, which is very close to the 25% increased chance to hit that the archer skill Focus gives. Perhaps Focus causes you to MISS enemies less as opposed to increasing your overall chance to hit them.

So from the data suggested, here's my conclusion:
> Sentinel, Void, and Sunblessed Sets all have very similar hit rates on the field, despite what their numbers suggest.
> There may be a hit% cap that causes players with Hit% > 100 to miss enemies.
> Rates of enemy DODGEing does not seem affected by different weapon set, or Hit%. However, the rate of MISSing enemies between sets is variable.

[tarlan]

well i think its safe to say, theres no hit cap, also it would seem hit doesnt make a difference in opponents dodge as i have not numerically tested a str bear geared with about 102% hit lands as many skills on a tank as bird running 180%+ hit

[Oldcoot]

Not going to try to explain it, but the percentage of dodge you have is not an independent variable. There have been multiple tests (search forums titles for "dodge") and the general conclusion is hit/crit play a factor into how much you actually dodge. We use to be blessed with players like Physiologic, Lovenus, MoogerFooger, and others who actually spent time testing "stats" to inform the community.

Now we just have a bunch of turds who love to use the word "cry."
This oldturd couldn't agree more

[Electrophiles]

something to factor in is hit

I think essentially its determined whether attack is miss or not
then if hit or not
then if crit or normal

that way, you can have extremely high crit but still miss against high dodge

[Ruby!!!]

There used to be a flow chart by either phys or attackelf showing in what order hit crit dodge are being calculated. Can't find it anymore though.

[Ruby!!!]

Not going to try to explain it, but the percentage of dodge you have is not an independent variable. There have been multiple tests (search forums titles for "dodge") and the general conclusion is hit/crit play a factor into how much you actually dodge. We use to be blessed with players like Physiologic, Lovenus, MoogerFooger, and others who actually spent time testing "stats" to inform the community.

Now we just have a bunch of turds who love to use the word "cry."
I've come to the conclusion that there is no need for that anymore. Today's elite just buys the "op set" and asks for the "op end game build" ;)

[Tweeter D Bird]

Dodge is overrated... I couldn't even dodge a parked car if I tried

[CrimsonTider]

This oldturd couldn't agree more

Can I join the "Oldturd Club"? I don't want to be the president, just a member. :)


something to factor in is hit

I think essentially its determined whether attack is miss or not
then if hit or not
then if crit or normal

that way, you can have extremely high crit but still miss against high dodge

This is part of the equation. What Phys had questions about, which were never answered by STG staff, is whether or not a "miss" is simply due to a true miss or a dodge. There was also a belief in a "Hit% Cap", but could never be truly proven, or disproven.


There used to be a flow chart by either phys or attackelf showing in what order hit crit dodge are being calculated. Can't find it anymore though.

Use the word "dodge" in the search bar and use the filter for "titles only". Look through a few of the ones on the first page and you will find it.


I've come to the conclusion that there is no need for that anymore. Today's elite just buys the "op set" and asks for the "op end game build" ;)

My conclusion is when these tests are done, no one wants to actually look at the numbers or argue because of what they "know." No longer worth the time and effort as I realized with the few I wrote.

[Waug]

If we could still quote ppl in our sig I would so cop this one

On point; here's some quotes from Phisio-
This guide:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?16817-Guide-to-Advanced-Mechanics-in-PL-DPS-Crits-etc.&highlight=boss+guide

(His first thoughts)Therefore, if enemy DODGE is 53 and your hit% is 135, you go down to an 82% chance to hit an enemy.

Chance of not getting dodged is 100-53=47% approx 5 times out of 10 hit, he won't dodge.

[CrimsonTider]

Chance of not getting dodged is 100-53=47% approx 5 times out of 10 hit, he won't dodge.

The answer is still not that clear. Why? Because the game is not played by standing still and watching "auto-attack". This is the only way we as players could test things in the past. When you take into consideration buffs, debuffs, the difference between a "miss" and a "dodge", and what the actual stat is (meaning it has never been truly confirmed that dodge is a true percentage), one cannot come to the conclusion that dodge is simply taking the difference between hit% and dodge. Then there is the whole "crit" argument and if it is a true percentage or not.

I have witnessed in testing a person with practically 0 dodge (it was pretty low) dodge around 8-10 straight auto attacks with the other person having over 100% hit. Trust me when I say this game is not as "clear" as we think it is.

[Waug]

yep it is not that much clear i agree, that thing I disagree with was clear though. more than100% has nothing to do with opponent's dodge % unless u get debuffed there is no doubt about it all otherwise higher lvl pure dex birds would just literally devastate any str class unless somehow they would able to hit debuff birds because they would not dodge at all against someone who has a hit% >200.

Also I said 'on an average' for a reason.

let's say someone has a chance to win a lottery 1/10 simply that doesn't mean he will win once in each and every 10 game. even he can win lottery 2times consecutively or even three but the chance of happening so is rare but still can happen..

Also it's clear attract has to go through passages let's say miss, dodge, DMG and crit are the passages.

now I thing when someone deliver any attract it has to go through these passages, as if it is misses or not, first, if it's not missed then dodge passage, it's dodged or not if not dodged than going through armor and if crit or not. ( since each and every times system calculate things, if target was previously buffed or debuff, it would act accordingly to the new values.)

now since in higher levels miss is just pretty rare, dodge passage matters.

[CrimsonTider]

yep it is not that much clear i agree, that thing I disagree with was clear though. more than100% has nothing to do with opponent's dodge % unless u get debuffed there is no doubt about it all otherwise higher lvl pure dex birds would just literally devastate any str class unless somehow they would able to hit debuff birds because they would not dodge at all against someone who has a hit% >200.

Also I said 'on an average' for a reason.

let's say someone has a chance to win a lottery 1/10 simply that doesn't mean he will win once in each and every 10 game. even he can win lottery 2times consecutively or even three but the chance of happening so is rare but still can happen..

Also it's clear attract has to go through passages let's say miss, dodge, DMG and crit are the passages.

now I thing when someone deliver any attract it has to go through these passages, as if it is misses or not, first, if it's not missed then dodge passage, it's dodged or not if not dodged than going through armor and if crit or not. ( since each and every times system calculate things, if target was previously buffed or debuff, it would act accordingly to the new values.)

now since in higher levels miss is just pretty rare, dodge passage matters.

If you have gone back and read all of the previous "research" threads on dodge, you will see there is a general consensus in the community about a potential hit% "cap." What this means is, it doesn't matter if you have 100% hit or 200% hit, there is a cap of roughly 82% (see the research by Lovenus). Again, the problem with testing these theories is the inability to remove all other variables where you can strictly test hit without dodge, hit with dodge, crit without hit or dodge, and so on. Only then can all of the "tests" be true, valid, and accurate. This can never happen and thus, the debates we have as players will only be "speculation."

[Caiahar]

Hit doesn't affect dodge. I actually saw, pvp- wise
"Why are all the birds crying wtf they have over 100 hit and they complain about dodge, they can hit all the time lol noobs"

PvE wise, the enemies have dodge as well. I dont think anyone has calculated how much dodge the enemies may have though.
Although, in the higher levels (50+) the enemies tend to have more dodge, if I recall correctly

[KingFu]

There used to be a flow chart by either phys or attackelf showing in what order hit crit dodge are being calculated. Can't find it anymore though.

106320 (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?16817-Guide-to-Advanced-Mechanics-in-PL-DPS-Crits-etc.)

[Ruby!!!]

OK I promise I'll work on my forum search skills! Thanks for posting the chart I think it helps for this discussion

[tarlan]

106320 (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?16817-Guide-to-Advanced-Mechanics-in-PL-DPS-Crits-etc.)

to be fair would it change damage or anything if it was rolled in another order?
like for instance if u rolled for crit first then they dodged it would still be zero damage, the "miss" vs "dodge" would be the only visible difference but it would make no differnce as far as damage, am i right?

[iiirootzz]

Not going to try to explain it, but the percentage of dodge you have is not an independent variable. There have been multiple tests (search forums titles for "dodge") and the general conclusion is hit/crit play a factor into how much you actually dodge. We use to be blessed with players like Physiologic, Lovenus, MoogerFooger, and others who actually spent time testing "stats" to inform the community.

Now we just have a bunch of turds who love to use the word "cry."


very optimistic and cheerful, gg .

[CrimsonTider]

very optimistic and cheerful, gg .

Thank you for solidifying my point. Instead of providing anything useful to the discussion, you blatantly find something in the thread, which has nothing to do with the actual context, make a statement (again, nothing to do with the context), and conclude the statement with "gg", or "good game", which makes zero sense.