Sns fix come or not?

[kixkaxx]

It is unfair that halloween lb only gives vanity and Elon lb gives an op pet... It's better to fix Sns or make these vanities +10 to all stat

[Remember Me]

Yes its ridiculous how SnS its not fixed. A SnS stack has one hit me many times and its not hard to purposely stack them by going into a corner...

[matanofx]

Its absolutely not fair to give any vanity +stats

No one told you to run LB if you dont like the vanities you dont have to run but the price of the vanities is determined by how rare it is and how desirable+how much the people who ran Lb actually paid to get it

You say fix SnS, fix how?

I think the prize is just fine, do you want another OP pet in game that only the mega rich can have and makes time runs/pvp off balance?
The vanity prizes are a chance to say "hey everyone, calm down, no need to nolife this event, if you do end up on lb you wont get anything thatll make you OP so just have fun"

[Instanthumor]

Halloween = small event
Ursoth = bigger event

Wait for the winter event, there will be more to the LB prizes than this upcoming event.

[Remember Me]

I don't know if the devs intended for this but the SnS pools stack. A stack of purples can literally kill a maxed rogue or tank in a matter of seconds. Also I don't believe that armor is accounted for in the damage dealing process.

Furthermore, some guilds have resorted to using three, yes 3- THREE SnS at a time. This causes 9 purps and 9 heals.

I thought that this issues would already be solved but obviously the QC testers at spacetime are missing something....

I suggest adding a timer, like a stuntimer on how much damage u can receive and how much heals you can receive.

It really doesn't make sense for a pet to be able to kill you or completely heal you...

It just makes classes like mages irrelevant.... If QC testers can't provide accurate data, devs feel free to pm me...

This SnS issue is just ridiculous and needs to be dealt with.

Or add SnS to crates

[Zeus]

SnS was designed to be overpowered as stated by developers.

I also agree with your statement:


Dear Samta,

All I want for Xmas is for STS to make a final decision,

Don't change an item after you release. Buff the QC team and make sure there are no changes after people invest hundreds of millions on items.

Yours truly,

A victim of random nerfing

They, the developers, advertised it, Shady & Surge, as overpowered. Furthermore, Samael is still a great pet which I happen to use quite often!

Furthermore, I do believe Remiem said QC was looking into it.

I think that SnS is just a scapegoat that people enjoy blaming.

[Anarchist]

In the Arcane Legends announcement section, the title of the official halloween thread states:

HUGE Halloween Event Coming Soon to Arcane Legends!

Fix sns by:
Decreasing the pools diameters
And/or
Decreasing the number of pools
And/or
Decreasing the number of damage dealth
And/or
Decreasing the number of health healed
And/or
Decreasing the chance for a stack.



Thank you.

[Remember Me]

SnS was designed to be overpowered as stated by developers.

I also agree with your statement:



They, the developers, advertised it, Shady & Surge, as overpowered. Furthermore, Samael is still a great pet which I happen to use quite often!

Furthermore, I do believe Remiem said QC was looking into it.

I think that SnS is just a scapegoat that people enjoy blaming.

Yes whim is overpowered as well as stated by devs...

[Remember Me]

SnS was designed to be overpowered as stated by developers.

I also agree with your statement:



They, the developers, advertised it, Shady & Surge, as overpowered. Furthermore, Samael is still a great pet which I happen to use quite often!

Furthermore, I do believe Remiem said QC was looking into it.

I think that SnS is just a scapegoat that people enjoy blaming.

Also SNS was changed after they released it... The devs don't know about people who call 3 or more SNS to beat a no SNS team.

#thestruggleisreal

[Zeus]

Arcane Legends announcement section, title of the official halloween thread:

HUGE Halloween Event Coming Soon to Arcane Legends!

Fix sns by:
Decresing the pools diameters
And/or
Decresing the number of pools
And/or
Decresing the number of damafe dealth
And/or
Decreasing the number of health health

Thank you.

Ultimately, verdict is to make the pet useless? That doesn't seem right. I thought STG wanted to avoid messing with loyal customers.

Instead, they should release more pets as equally powerful as SnS. Nerfing is not a solution, in my opinion.

[Serancha]

Lol@pvp drama

[Remember Me]

Ultimately, verdict is to make the pet useless? That doesn't seem right. I thought STG wanted to avoid messing with loyal customers.

Instead, they should release more pets as equally powerful as SnS. Nerfing is not a solution, in my opinion.

They did same thing to bulwark, should be no problem for SNS.

[Remember Me]

Also there is a bug where armor is not calculated into the damage taken..

[Anarchist]

Ultimately, verdict is to make the pet useless? That doesn't seem right. I thought STG wanted to avoid messing with loyal customers.

Instead, they should release more pets as equally powerful as SnS. Nerfing is not a solution, in my opinion.

I hope not cause pvp would become rubbish.

I touch you and you die pvp is not fun.

[Ravager]

Arcane Legends announcement section, title of the official halloween thread:

HUGE Halloween Event Coming Soon to Arcane Legends!

Fix sns by:
Decresing the pools diameters
And/or
Decresing the number of pools
And/or
Decresing the number of damafe dealth
And/or
Decreasing the number of health health

Thank you.

Ultimately, verdict is to make the pet useless? That doesn't seem right. I thought STG wanted to avoid messing with loyal customers.

Instead, they should release more pets as equally powerful as SnS. Nerfing is not a solution, in my opinion.

I hope for newer and stronger pets as well. Nekro needs to be better than old samael for example.

[Vorg]

sns is seriously bugged , those death pools do ridiculous damage, way too overpowered its like a class on its own lol

[Anarchist]

Nekro pre nerfed is the level current SnS should be but even the pre nerf Nekro is like a baby compared to SNS both PVE/PVP wise.

[Zeus]

Also there is a bug where armor is not calculated into the damage taken..

- Poison has always functioned like this - it's not a glitch
- SnS was changed because it was not overpowered as promised. Whims was overpowered and still can be considered overpowered in certain aspects of the game. However, it is many seasons old now and is not as overpowered as it used to be.
- If you do not like a PvP room, the leave function exists. That's what I do if I am being ganged. I do not come on forums asking for ganging to be nerfed/stopped. PvP drama should not be a valid reason to call for a nerf. After all, not everyone who owns an SnS participates in drama.

[Zeus]

I hope not cause pvp would become rubbish.

I touch you and you die pvp is not fun.

That's not true and not how PvP is right now. It's logical movements coupled with quick thinking.

[Anarchist]

Its not pvp drama as you can see no guilds name was mentioned here.

Its game balance.
Nekro pre nerf was OP but compaired to current SnS it sucks. Just to give you a idea.

[Zeus]

Its not pvp drama as you can see no guilds name was mentioned here.

Its game balanced.
Nekro pre nerf was OP but compaired to current SnS it sucks. Just to give you a idea.

"The devs don't know about people who call 3 or more SNS to beat a no SNS team."

This sounds like a PvP drama situation to me. The OP does not have to refer to names to recall PvP drama filled events. If you do not like a game and are outgeared, leave or remain AFK in the game. That's what I do and it works out quite well. If you get any PMs from people for leaving the room, simply add them to ignore list.

[Zeus]

Nekro pre nerf was OP but compaired to current SnS it sucks. Just to give you a idea.

Nekro pre-nerf was an amazing pet and should have remained when considering the fact of SnS's current power. I do not agree with what developers have done to Nekro either. STG should not mess with some player's investments in order to make another set of players happy. That is like stealing a lollipop from one baby to give to another baby. In the end, the parent did nothing to preserve the peace between both infants.

Make sense? Instead, STG needs to release pets that are just as good that players can work towards.

[Seoratrek]

I have merged the two similar threads into one and moved to suggestions and feedback. As a courtesy, please use use the search function to see if there is an active thread on the subject rather than create multiple posts regarding the same topic. Thanks! :)

[Ravager]

Nekro, Sns, Singe, Whimm were all released after Samael. They did a good job on Sns. Singe was decent but still needs panic instead of stun. Nekro needs its 20% dmg. Whimm needs a lot of work. Maybe when its reintroduced during winter event.

I hate seeing every brand new arcane pet weaker than Samael.

[Remember Me]

Could a Dev confirm that they know that SNS pools stack?

It is easy to stack a SNS pool, you can use multiple SNSs or go into a corner ( like a entrance corner) and activate the AA.

This can lead to some serious damage, my maxed rogue (arcane ring and all perfected gear) dies literally in a second or two, I am not exaggerating. Video proof can be taken. I don't think the devs know that the pools can stack, also there is a armor miscalculation bug as well. My tank dies in a few seconds on a stacked pool as well, because the PvP corridors are so narrow they stack quite easily. My tank has a bulwark and ring as well, (max gear). Also it its more devasting when more than one SNS is on the oponnent team. More chances of stacking.

A stacked green pool heals about a 10% health rogue to 100% in literally 2 seconds.

Is that not a little bit top overpowered?

SNS is generally pretty OP, but dealable. I just believe that the stacked pools are bug and something that should be looked at.

[Anarchist]

Fact is if everyone start rolling with a pet that has comparable power to SnS like SnS owners suggest then its good game for endgame pvp.
Mages complaining about bulwark curse would be mere joke.
So please dont ruin pvp further sts, there are ways and ways to make OP pets!
You can make a OP pet like nekro prenerfed and it will enter smoothly in the game balance or you can make SNS and ruin the balance.


Decrease the pools diameters
And/or
Decrease the number of pools
And/or
Decrease the number of damage dealth
And/or
Decrease the number of health healed
And/or
Decrease the chance of pool stacks.

This are simple areas that can be touched to balance this pet while still keeping it OP and useful!!


In poor words it comes to this:

PvP balance or 0.1% player base pocket?

[Remember Me]

Fact is if everyone start rolling with a pet that has comparable power to SnS like SnS owners suggest then its good game for endgame pvp.
Mages complaining about bulwark curse would be mere joke.
So please dont ruin pvp further sts, there are ways and ways to make OP pets!
You can make a OP pet like nekro prenerfed and it will enter smoothly in the game balance or you can make SNS and ruin the balance.


Decrease the pools diameters
And/or
Decrease the number of pools
And/or
Decrease the number of damafe dealth
And/or
Decrease the number of health health

This are simple areas that can be touched to balance this pet while still keeping it OP and useful!!


In poor words it comes to this:

PvP balance or 0.1% player base pocket?

.1% players are irrelevant, as many more are effected by SNS. I think the devs are not aware of the stacking bug and the armor miscalculation bug..

[Zeus]

.1% players are irrelevant, as many more are effected by SNS. I think the devs are not aware of the stacking bug and the armor miscalculation bug..

Poison ignores armor - it's not a bug. The purple pools are poison pools. Additionally, pools are meant to stack or there would not be multiple. Remiem has messaged me before on your other SnS campaigns that the QC team found exactly the same results I mentioned.

[Instanthumor]

Nekro, Sns, Singe, Whimm were all released after Samael. They did a good job on Sns. Singe was decent but still needs panic instead of stun. Nekro needs its 20% dmg. Whimm needs a lot of work. Maybe when its reintroduced during winter event.

I hate seeing every brand new arcane pet weaker than Samael.

Yes, Whim should be buffed slightly for this Christmas if it does return. It's the only pet that gives no form of crit/stun/panic altogether. Please buff :)

[falmear]

If curse doesn't reflect SnS pool damage then someone should file a bug.

[Zeus]

If curse doesn't reflect SnS pool damage then someone should file a bug.

It's not a bug. It's classified as an environmental effect. Curse also does not reflect pet passive attacks or arcane ability.

[Anarchist]

The pool damage should consider armor or be reduced its not that hard to see it. Stand in a pool or even better in stacked pools and you will notice Dev/Mod/Tester.

It just makes me LoL how SnS owners would rather prefer 1 year old pets to be buffed than SnS to be balanced.

[matanofx]

The people who have SnS either worked extremely hard during elondria event to get it or spent TONS of gold to buy it off of someone who worked hard to remain in LB

To anyone who thinks this discussion isnt about PvP drama, youre wrong, its absolutely 100% about pvp drama

I think if people worked so hard to get SnS it should be OP, it doesnt stun you, pools can go anywhere and with good tanks on your side you can beat a team using SnS
I find a team stacked with maul warriors during season4 alot harder to beat than a team with 3 SnS pets, yet nothing was done about mauls.

As rava said its mind blowing to see every new released arcane pet being inferior to old uncle Sam (other than SnS which has a creative aa)
If other newer arcane pets get the kinds of buffs they deserve and sorc class is fixed with... whatever, SnS would seem more fair to others who dont have it, I dont think nerfing is the answer.

[Anarchist]

I dont really agree about mages gettin "fixed" mages arent weak the damage buff that was given last time guarantees a well equipped mage to kill a equally geared rogue. The moment mages get buffed so they can kill wariors or have consistent chance to do it as they request then there will be high chance the balance will shift and rogues will be the ones in mages position with no to equal chance against mages.

Back on topic like i said earlier there are different ways of makin OP pets. People work hard for Nekro but its no where comparable to SNS, not even the pre nerfed Nekro.
Its not a nerf to make sns useless thats is being requested what is being asked is to bring SnS to a reasonable power while still keeping the pet OP and better than all the others, this can be acheived without hurting anyones pocket.(Nearly all the SnS are opened anyway so what gold are you panicking to lose)

[Ravager]

I dont really agree about mages gettin "fixed" mages arent weak the damage buff that was given last time guarantees a well equipped mage to kill a equally geared rogue. The moment mages get buffed so they can kill wariors or have consistent chance to do it as they request then there will be high chance the balance will shift and rogues will be the ones in mages position with no to equal chance against mages.

Back on topic like i said earlier there are different ways of makin OP pets. People work hard for Nekro but its no where comparable to SNS, not even the pre nerfed Nekro.
Its not a nerf to make sns useless thats is being requested what is being asked is to bring SnS to a reasonable power while still keeping the pet OP and better than all the others, this can be acheived without hurting anyones pocket.(Nearly all the SnS are opened anyway so what gold are you panicking to lose)

It may not hurts peoples pockets but it hurts their investment. Nearly everyone paid 100m+ for a pet that was supposed to be very powerful. When it first came out it was comparable to samael yet in only situational conditions. Right now I say it was worth me paying 3+ times more than samael. I find the best strategy is warriors saving their bubbles till sns is used for the invulnerability bubble. Instead of nerfing sns why not buff nekro with 1 or 2 second invulnerability on the aa. It might SOUND op but we havent tried it. In many cases it buys more time to simply walk out of the pool. Nekro needs to be better than Samael anyways and there needs to be a reason why people should seek fossil (other than selling it). If whimm were buffed, more people would possibly use it creatively to pull sns teammates out of the green pools for the kill.

[Bless]

This is the PvP perspective; the pet can be exclusively nerfed for PvP without affecting PvE use.

Apparently, 44 SnS users > Thoudands of pvpers. GG STG, GG.

Fyi, the problem here is the incredibly OP Arcane Ability. The pet was advertised as OP by a 2 minute trailer based on its HAPPINESS BONUS. Nothing about it's AA was advertised as OP in the video as Remiem only shows the Heal ticks and didn't focus on the damage ticks. The heal ticks in that video was ~500 but at the moment, its over 600 per second - false advertising?

Additionally, the advertisement said nothing about the pet being OP in pvp so it would make sense for a PvP nerf if it undermines thousands of players' gear including arcane rings.

Furthermore, SnS is an exclusive pet. So why is it insanely OP and best in the game? That is highly illogical and should be taken into account. It can't be looted now, so what happens to the other people in the game?

In a CTF game, with > 1 Sns, I feel like I'm playing SnS Legends.

I haven't gotten a chance to make a video of this crap and show the devs because they are blinded by fallacious claims that "its not better than samael yet" or "it was advertised as OP". Of course it's better than samael! Even if they get terrified, they'll be in heal pools that heal them faster than a HoR. So far this pet has already undermined most aspects of the following skills: Aimed shot, Noxious bolt, Lightning, HoR, combat medic, Sorcerors heal. I can prove it too. If any SnS user wants to help me out, HMU, I can gladly and easily prove that it is OP. Anyone can argue and give opinions, but they just try to manipulate busy devs with false or bias claims. The practical proof is what makes claims valid so HMU.

[Gensin]

Apparently, 44 SnS users > Thoudands of pvpers. GG STG, GG.


And counting.

What will happened to them? Stuck in a Samael.
Atleast If your making a OP pet make it atleast a non-limited thing. So people can have it.

[Bless]

And counting.

What will happened to them? Stuck in a Samael.
Atleast If your making a OP pet make it atleast a non-limited thing. So people can have it.
Exactly. Only 44 get to be OP....Not that anyone should be OP, the pet should still be nerfed if it was added back. 600+ dmg per second ON TOP of opposing team damage is ridiculous regardless.

[Remember Me]

The people who have SnS either worked extremely hard during elondria event to get it or spent TONS of gold to buy it off of someone who worked hard to remain in LB

To anyone who thinks this discussion isnt about PvP drama, youre wrong, its absolutely 100% about pvp drama

I think if people worked so hard to get SnS it should be OP, it doesnt stun you, pools can go anywhere and with good tanks on your side you can beat a team using SnS
I find a team stacked with maul warriors during season4 alot harder to beat than a team with 3 SnS pets, yet nothing was done about mauls.

As rava said its mind blowing to see every new released arcane pet being inferior to old uncle Sam (other than SnS which has a creative aa)
If other newer arcane pets get the kinds of buffs they deserve and sorc class is fixed with... whatever, SnS would seem more fair to others who dont have it, I dont think nerfing is the answer.

Honestly you have no room to talk here, I have never seen you in a PvP room this season and I PVP a lot...

You don't know the inequality and struggle..

[Remember Me]

Exactly. Only 44 get to be OP....Not that anyone should be OP, the pet should still be nerfed if it was added back. 600+ dmg per second ON TOP of opposing team damage is ridiculous regardless.

Exactly, the 44 are being very selfish knowing that there are numerous bug including no DoT DMG reflected back, insane DMG (more DMGing than normally geared toons), and the armor miscalculation bug..

[Bless]

Also, they buffed bulwark, and nerfed it. They disappointed a third of AL population, so it goes the same for SnS. The argument that its "unfair" or a disappointment for SnS owners is just how warriors feel, but wasn't bulwark proc like a 5th skill?
SnS is too OP for maxed players let alone the average joe. A ring tank can be downed by two stacked pools in < 5 seconds.

[Bless]

The people who have SnS either worked extremely hard during elondria event to get it or spent TONS of gold to buy it off of someone who worked hard to remain in LB

To anyone who thinks this discussion isnt about PvP drama, youre wrong, its absolutely 100% about pvp drama

I think if people worked so hard to get SnS it should be OP, it doesnt stun you, pools can go anywhere and with good tanks on your side you can beat a team using SnS
I find a team stacked with maul warriors during season4 alot harder to beat than a team with 3 SnS pets, yet nothing was done about mauls.

As rava said its mind blowing to see every new released arcane pet being inferior to old uncle Sam (other than SnS which has a creative aa)
If other newer arcane pets get the kinds of buffs they deserve and sorc class is fixed with... whatever, SnS would seem more fair to others who dont have it, I dont think nerfing is the answer.
The people who worked really hard to buy 150m+ gear like samael, arcane ring, bow, etc SPENT TONS OF TIME AND PLAT TO EARN IT. A stupid 100m pet > 150m gear + pet. GG.

[matanofx]

Honestly you have no room to talk here, I have never seen you in a PvP room this season and I PVP a lot...

You don't know the inequality and struggle..

LOL just funny, ask bless who kindly thanked you for that comment if he saw me in pvp, or the rest of your guildies cause im in ctf ALOT

I got over 3k kills the last 1-2 months alone which is alot for me (thank you my dear haters for kills), i have any room in the world to talk right here all i want cause i experiences ctf atleast 3 times a week thank you have a beautiful day =]

[matanofx]

The people who worked really hard to buy 150m+ gear like samael, arcane ring, bow, etc SPENT TONS OF TIME AND PLAT TO EARN IT. A stupid 100m pet > 150m gear + pet. GG.

So you think someone with sns and pink gear will beat your 150m gear including sam/arcane ring/full mythic set+weap?

Those SnS owners also (mostly) have 150m gear, its okay to disagree but no need to spread inaccuracies.

[Zeus]

Honestly you have no room to talk here, I have never seen you in a PvP room this season and I PVP a lot...

You don't know the inequality and struggle..

I've seen MatanofX in PvP on more than a few occasions. Timezones are a dastardly thing! :/

@Remember Me
They sold the pets to leaderboard contestants as being OP. The bugs that you are constantly repeating, I am constantly correcting. They are not bugs.

Poison ignores armor. If you want armor to be factored in, prepare for noxious bolt to be nerfed, curse to be nerfed, and many other things that follow the same game mechanics. Furthermore, no DoT DMG is reflected back from pets period. So, if it were, all pets would have to be changed to this as this is a basic rule that ALL pets follow.

Let me know which part of the post you do not understand and I will clarify it for you.

[Zeus]

So you think someone with sns and pink gear will beat your 150m gear including sam/arcane ring/full mythic set+weap?

Those SnS owners also (mostly) have 150m gear, its okay to disagree but no need to spread inaccuracies.

Yep.

What Bless is saying is that he expects to be on an equal level with somebody in 300m gear versus someone with 150m gear. It is just not going to happen. Nevertheless, it's completely possible to kill an SnS user with non SnS. Magnum does it, players do it, it's not impossible at all. There were multiple SnS teams that came into the tournament and a lot of them lost to non SnS teams. I think that alone proves it is not as much of a game changer as people like to state. Instead, it's just a popular scapegoat.

Also, I would appreciate if players did not write things off as glitches when they aren't. These are very deeply rooted game mechanics that have long been present since before SnS.

[Remember Me]

LOL just funny, ask bless who kindly thanked you for that comment if he saw me in pvp, or the rest of your guildies cause im in ctf ALOT

I got over 3k kills the last 1-2 months alone which is alot for me (thank you my dear haters for kills), i have any room in the world to talk right here all i want cause i experiences ctf atleast 3 times a week thank you have a beautiful day =]

Wow three times a week, I deal with multiple sns's daily....

[Remember Me]

I've seen MatanofX in PvP on more than a few occasions. Timezones are a dastardly thing! :/

@Remember Me
They sold the pets to leaderboard contestants as being OP. The bugs that you are constantly repeating, I am constantly correcting. They are not bugs.

Poison ignores armor. If you want armor to be factored in, prepare for noxious bolt to be nerfed, curse to be nerfed, and many other things that follow the same game mechanics. Furthermore, no DoT DMG is reflected back from pets period. So, if it were, all pets would have to be changed to this as this is a basic rule that ALL pets follow.

Let me know which part of the post you do not understand and I will clarify it for you.

Like I said earlier, I'm not look for a theoretical from you. I'm looking for an answer from a Dev or Mod.

Thanks for trying to help me.

[Ravager]

Holding onto to Samael to me is like holding onto Mythic Armor/Helmet. Its considered top notch in most cases. Just wish there was more or better. Most people have it.

Now there finally exists a pet, in my opinion, better than the seasons old Samael. Its a good start.

Sure when some people say more than 1 SnS = gg and many felt that way against Arcane Ring users. 2 or more rings vs no rings = GG right? So to find a solution, there weren't many requesting to nerf the Arcane Ring but to instead find a competitive alternate such as a 41 Mythic Ring (which I am still for).

Where is the competitive pet to Sns? None. If a nerf came to Sns, might as well award Samael to Ursoth winners. I'm sure STS probably wanted people to take their events seriously and not make it feel like the buyers/sellers/winners weren't getting their value's worth with the pet.

My suggestion for buffs to current arcane pets newer than Samael:

Singe: AA now removes stun/terror/panic/movement impairing (counter to old Samael)
Nekro: 1-2s invulnerability on the shield (may help with the useless scorch ability too) and 12% speed increase on AA (small counter to Sns)
Whimm: Buff stats and MP regen. Good for pulling opposing teammates out of green pools.

You'll see slightly more different variety of arcane pets with this. Value will go up for sellers. Those with the current pets will be happy. Most people will be happy. Sns users will be happy that they still got their 100m-150m pets worth in value.

Otherwise, don't bring back whimm, don't introduce new arcane pets. We'll just be stuck with Samael. Replace imaginary fossils in arena with Samael.

[Zeus]

Furthermore, thousands of players PvP? There are not even more than a few thousand players online at a given time. Players who are affected are around 40 players in total from each side of the guild war. This is about PvP drama and I certainly hope STG will not displease one crowd only to appease another.

We've seen how well that turns out and it's not a smart decision. Release new pets and buff the pets that have been release AFTER Samael. I do not think it was developers intention for Samael to forever be king of PvP just like how I do not expect SnS to forever be king of PvP (which it is not even right now).

Guild war drama should not be a relative point towards nerfing items that STG sold to 30+ leaderboard contestants.

[Zeus]

Like I said earlier, I'm not look for a theoretical from you. I'm looking for an answer from a Dev or Mod.

Thanks for trying to help me.

These are not theoreticals. Please search the forums for quotes from the developers. Poison is meant to ignore armor and works off of the same mechanics as curse. I believe the developer who posted this was Swede or Carapace.

[Bless]

So you think someone with sns and pink gear will beat your 150m gear including sam/arcane ring/full mythic set+weap?

Those SnS owners also (mostly) have 150m gear, its okay to disagree but no need to spread inaccuracies.
SnS alone can kill a dps easily if two or more pools stack, which is frequent if you calculate the space and the pool area, forget the players 150m gear, lol.

[Remember Me]

Holding onto to Samael to me is like holding onto Mythic Armor/Helmet. Its considered top notch in most cases. Just wish there was more or better. Most people have it.

Now there finally exists a pet, in my opinion, better than the seasons old Samael. Its a good start.

Sure when some people say more than 1 SnS = gg and many felt that way against Arcane Ring users. 2 or more rings vs no rings = GG right? So to find a solution, there weren't many requesting to nerf the Arcane Ring but to instead find a competitive alternate such as a 41 Mythic Ring (which I am still for).

Where is the competitive pet to Sns? None. If a nerf came to Sns, might as well award Samael to Ursoth winners. I'm sure STS probably wanted people to take their events seriously and not make it feel like the buyers/sellers/winners weren't getting their value's worth with the pet.

My suggestion for buffs to current arcane pets newer than Samael:

Singe: AA now removes stun/terror/panic/movement impairing (counter to old Samael)
Nekro: 1-2s invulnerability on the shield (may help with the useless scorch ability too) and 12% speed increase on AA (small counter to Sns)
Whimm: Buff stats and MP regen. Good for pulling opposing teammates out of green pools.

You'll see slightly more different variety of arcane pets with this. Value will go up for sellers. Those with the current pets will be happy. Most people will be happy. Sns users will be happy that they still got their 100m-150m pets worth in value.

Otherwise, don't bring back whimm, don't introduce new arcane pets. We'll just be stuck with Samael. Replace imaginary fossils in arena with Samael.

A pet doesn't have to have the ability to one hit enemies to be considered better than Samael.

A pet also doesn't have to heal a tank to full in 2 ticks either from a stacked pool to be better than a Samael.

Like Zeus said earlier whim is OP in its own way, there can be other pets like that.

[Zeus]

Holding onto to Samael to me is like holding onto Mythic Armor/Helmet. Its considered top notch in most cases. Just wish there was more or better. Most people have it.

Now there finally exists a pet, in my opinion, better than the seasons old Samael. Its a good start.

Sure when some people say more than 1 SnS = gg and many felt that way against Arcane Ring users. 2 or more rings vs no rings = GG right? So to find a solution, there weren't many requesting to nerf the Arcane Ring but to instead find a competitive alternate such as a 41 Mythic Ring (which I am still for).

Where is the competitive pet to Sns? None. If a nerf came to Sns, might as well award Samael to Ursoth winners. I'm sure STS probably wanted people to take their events seriously and not make it feel like the buyers/sellers/winners weren't getting their value's worth with the pet.

My suggestion for buffs to current arcane pets newer than Samael:

Singe: AA now removes stun/terror/panic/movement impairing (counter to old Samael)
Nekro: 1-2s invulnerability on the shield (may help with the useless scorch ability too) and 12% speed increase on AA (small counter to Sns)
Whimm: Buff stats and MP regen. Good for pulling opposing teammates out of green pools.

You'll see slightly more different variety of arcane pets with this. Value will go up for sellers. Those with the current pets will be happy. Most people will be happy. Sns users will be happy that they still got their 100m-150m pets worth in value.

Otherwise, don't bring back whimm, don't introduce new arcane pets. We'll just be stuck with Samael. Replace imaginary fossils in arena with Samael.

Right on the money!

[Remember Me]

These are not theoreticals. Please search the forums for quotes from the developers. Poison is meant to ignore armor and works off of the same mechanics as curse. I believe the developer who posted this was Swede or Carapace.

Please quote/

[falmear]

It's not a bug. It's classified as an environmental effect. Curse also does not reflect pet passive attacks or arcane ability.

Yeah it is a bug because it doesn't matter if its an environmental effect or not, you're doing damage in PvP, the damage should be reflected. Since you have control whether or not to use the arcane ability. You don't have to use it right? Also you thought this was a great idea here:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?157283-New-Pet-First-Look-Shady-amp-Surge&p=1662686&viewfull=1#post1662686

[Remember Me]

Yeah it is a bug because it doesn't matter if its an environmental effect or not, you're doing damage in PvP, the damage should be reflected. Since you have control whether or not to use the arcane ability. You don't have to use it right? Also you thought this was a great idea here:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?157283-New-Pet-First-Look-Shady-amp-Surge&p=1662686&viewfull=1#post1662686

Thank you for your wisdom.

[Zeus]

A pet doesn't have to have the ability to one hit enemies to be considered better than Samael.

A pet also doesn't have to heal a tank to full in 2 ticks either from a stacked pool to be better than a Samael.

Like Zeus said earlier whim is OP in its own way, there can be other pets like that.

Yes, SnS is OP in its own way as well. It is considered overpowered in small spaces such as the CTF room. In a PvE environment or a TDM map, there are better choices to be used. The open spaces in TDM result in the SnS pools spreading far and thing thus ruining the effectiveness of the AA.

Additionally, the only time I've seen a tank been healed to full in 2 ticks is when all the health pools stack which is just not a common occurrence.

Thank you for helping pointing out SnS weaknesses!

SnS alone can kill a dps easily if two or more pools stack, which is frequent if you calculate the space and the pool area, forget the players 150m gear, lol.

If the player is wearing 150m gear, he should be more than capable of killing a player with just legendary gear but SnS. The fact is that most SnS users have your 150m gear + a 150m pet. You are not going to be on an equal level with them - period.

[Remember Me]

Yes, SnS is OP in its own way as well. It is considered overpowered in small spaces such as the CTF room. In a PvE environment or a TDM map, there are better choices to be used. The open spaces in TDM result in the SnS pools spreading far and thing thus ruining the effectiveness of the AA.

Additionally, the only time I've seen a tank been healed to full in 2 ticks is when all the health pools stack which is just not a common occurrence.

Thank you for helping pointing out SnS weaknesses!


If the player is wearing 150m gear, he should be more than capable of killing a player with just legendary gear but SnS. The fact is that most SnS users have your 150m gear + a 150m pet. You are not going to be on an equal level with them - period.

Exactly, I'm talking about the stacking issue in the CtF room.

Please scroll up and read, thanks.

[Zeus]

Yeah it is a bug because it doesn't matter if its an environmental effect or not, you're doing damage in PvP, the damage should be reflected. Since you have control whether or not to use the arcane ability. You don't have to use it right? Also you thought this was a great idea here:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?157283-New-Pet-First-Look-Shady-amp-Surge&p=1662686&viewfull=1#post1662686

I did and now I do not. Why? The pet has changed since then. All a curse mage would have to do is stand in a pool to win a fight since curse is based on the speed of DoTs, not the damage. If they are going to do this, they need to do it to all pets. Then again, that would make curse a very very OP skill - would it not?

[Zeus]

Exactly, I'm talking about the stacking issue in the CtF room.

Please scroll up and read, thanks.

You said each pet can be effective in its own way. SnS is effective in CTF rooms. It is not particularly effective in any open spaces like PvE or TDM.

[Bless]

And thats considered fair? SnS is discontinued. So current players who don't own SnS should accept their fate that they'll get owned no matter what because of that 150m pet - even if they have maxed gear?

A level 41 SnS can kill a maxed player even if the owner wears epic gear, lol. Even after the undergeared dude dies, the SnS pools continue to do damage.

[Remember Me]

I did and now I do not. Why? The pet has changed since then. All a curse mage would have to do is stand in a pool to win a fight since curse is based on the speed of DoTs, not the damage. If they are going to do this, they need to do it to all pets. Then again, that would make curse a very very OP skill - would it not?

For an OP pet I think that's a fair tradeoff.

[Remember Me]

You said each pet can be effective in its own way. SnS is effective in CTF rooms. It is not particularly effective in any open spaces like PvE or TDM.

Because of the insanely high DMG per tick, it is still use full in all maps including TDM and PVE.

[Ravager]

A pet doesn't have to have the ability to one hit enemies to be considered better than Samael.

A pet also doesn't have to heal a tank to full in 2 ticks either from a stacked pool to be better than a Samael.

Like Zeus said earlier whim is OP in its own way, there can be other pets like that.

I've listed a few suggestions above that don't involve Samael and would be possible good counters instead of everyone going back to the 5th newest arcane pet and 3rd oldest.
Whimm is good in some situations. Good for mages doing timed runs but overall is a situational pet that is hardly seen in pvp. I used to use him a lot in TDM until they made Sns better. Before the Sns buff, hardly anyone used Sns ( well I know I hardly used it) but every once in a while in CTF. It just wasn't as effective back then. Sns was useless in TDM previously. Now its a less situational pet.

Maybe pull and stun on the AA and /or buff stats/mp regen for whimm.

[falmear]

I did and now I do not. Why? All a curse mage would have to do is stand in a pool to win a fight since curse is based on the speed of DoTs, not the damage. If they are going to do this, they need to do it to all pets. Then again, that would make curse a very very OP skill - would it not?

If it doesn't work, then all pet arcane ability should be reflected. Very few pet do as much DOT damage, so this would be balanced so it would only affect a small number of players. This wouldn't affect PvP balance and offer a counter balance to SnS as the way misty offers a counter balance to curse. Also a mage standing in a damage pool risks dieing before curse kills your opponent. So STS should fix this and have SnS DOT damage reflected by curse.

[Remember Me]

I've listed a few suggestions above that don't involve Samael and would be possible good counters instead of everyone going back to the 5th newest arcane pet and 3rd oldest.
Whimm is good in some situations. Good for mages doing timed runs but overall is a situational pet that is hardly seen in pvp. I used to use him a lot in TDM until they made Sns better. Before the Sns buff, hardly anyone used Sns ( well I know I hardly used it) but every once in a while in CTF. It just wasn't as effective back then. Sns was useless in TDM previously. Now its a less situational pet.

Maybe pull and stun on the AA and /or buff stats/mp regen for whimm.

I just want to know if having a pet that literally does more damage than a player and heals more than a player is reasonable.

If you don't have max gear (ring+myth/arc weapon) SNS does more DMG than the player.

Also, as a tank with SNS u know that you do less dmg than your pet, is that reasonable and fair for the majority of players to have to constantly deal with? I think not.

[Zeus]

And thats considered fair? SnS is discontinued. So current players who don't own SnS should accept their fate that they'll get owned no matter what because of that 150m pet - even if they have maxed gear?

A level 41 SnS can kill a maxed player even if the owner wears epic gear, lol. Even after the undergeared dude dies, the SnS pools continue to do damage.

Are you saying that you cannot one hit an owner who is wearing epic or legendary gear? It's entirely possible and entirely too easy. The OPness comes from OP pet and OP gear. In any event, one aimed shot will one hit the epic or legendary geared player.

[Remember Me]

If it doesn't work, then all pet arcane ability should be reflected. Very few pet do as much DOT damage, so this would be balanced so it would only affect a small number of players. This wouldn't affect PvP balance and offer a counter balance to SnS as the way misty offers a counter balance to curse. Also a mage standing in a damage pool risks dieing before curse kills your opponent. So STS should fix this and have SnS DOT damage reflected by curse.

Pets that do DoT damage are reflected by curse, you can easily test this with the wurmtongues substantial poison attack..

[Bless]

You said each pet can be effective in its own way. SnS is effective in CTF rooms. It is not particularly effective in any open spaces like PvE or TDM.
By effective you mean kill a tank in 5 seconds even after they healed?

The least significant arguments are given so much spotlight that this is ridiculous. Y'all aren't talking about the quantitative aspect of the pools and ignoring the important points. The green pools heal 600+ per second, thats more than HoR. They do more damage than a non-crit aimed shot. More than a non-crit lightning. A pet that undermines the most important skills in the 3 classes is absurd, period.

Do you know thousnds play CTF? Why is CTF looked as a minor playfield? More people L41 play CTF than TDM or PvE. Look at the significant proportions of the game - that is where people play most. The nerf doesn't have to include PvE aspects of SnS so you can rule that out. Lets talk about TDM and CTF, okay?

[Remember Me]

Are you saying that you cannot one hit an owner who is wearing epic or legendary gear? It's entirely possible and entirely too easy. The OPness comes from OP pet and OP gear. In any event, one aimed shot will one hit the epic or legendary geared player.

I have never ever one hit anyone wearing just legendary gear_ maybe if the opponent had no armor on, it may be possible.

The fact that you are comparing a players damage to a pets damage is just proof of how unfair this pets damage and heal pools are.

[Remember Me]

By effective you mean kill a tank in 5 seconds even after they healed?

The least significant arguments are given so much spotlight that this is ridiculous. Y'all aren't talking about the quantitative aspect of the pools and ignoring the important points. The green pools heal 600+ per second, thats more than HoR. They do more damage than a non-crit aimed shot. More than a non-crit lightning. A pet that undermines the most important skills in the 3 classes is absurd, period.

Do you know thousnds play CTF? Why is CTF looked as a minor playfield? More people L41 play CTF than TDM or PvE. Look at the significant proportions of the game - that is where people play most. The nerf doesn't have to include PvE aspects of SnS so you can rule that out. Lets talk about TDM and CTF, okay?

Exactly, this pet makes some classes absolutely worthless... The only reason people use mages now are for mama refills. I mean the pets pools even have a curse bug... Even legendary pets like wurmtongue are effected by curse, what gives SNS a right to avoid curse?

[Zeus]

By effective you mean kill a tank in 5 seconds even after they healed?

The least significant arguments are given so much spotlight that this is ridiculous. Y'all aren't talking about the quantitative aspect of the pools and ignoring the important points. The green pools heal 600+ per second, thats more than HoR. They do more damage than a non-crit aimed shot. More than a non-crit lightning. A pet that undermines the most important skills in the 3 classes is absurd, period.

Do you know thousnds play CTF? Why is CTF looked as a minor playfield? More people L41 play CTF than TDM or PvE. Look at the significant proportions of the game - that is where people play most. The nerf doesn't have to include PvE aspects of SnS so you can rule that out. Lets talk about TDM and CTF, okay?

Do you have stats on how many players play CTF at a given time? The only stats I see are tournament sign ins. Those do not go over 100 players.

If a tank chooses to remain in a pool, that is his own fault. I have had to fight against SnS too. Being smart about the pet and predicting when the AA will be dropped are key tactics to avoiding death at the hands of this pet. Do not put yourself in a vulnerable situation and you will not die. Simple, right?

A non-crit aimed shot does 1.4k damage. Lightning does around 1k-1.2k. SnS does not top this so please do not exaggerate.

Developers have stated numerous times that if they found anything wrong with this pet, they would make posts updating players on their plans for the pet.

[Remember Me]

By effective you mean kill a tank in 5 seconds even after they healed?

The least significant arguments are given so much spotlight that this is ridiculous. Y'all aren't talking about the quantitative aspect of the pools and ignoring the important points. The green pools heal 600+ per second, thats more than HoR. They do more damage than a non-crit aimed shot. More than a non-crit lightning. A pet that undermines the most important skills in the 3 classes is absurd, period.

Do you know thousnds play CTF? Why is CTF looked as a minor playfield? More people L41 play CTF than TDM or PvE. Look at the significant proportions of the game - that is where people play most. The nerf doesn't have to include PvE aspects of SnS so you can rule that out. Lets talk about TDM and CTF, okay?

Honestly, on a stacked pool I have seen a maxed tank that was not jugged die in 2 ticks which is around one second.

[Zeus]

Exactly, this pet makes some classes absolutely worthless... The only reason people use mages now are for mama refills. I mean the pets pools even have a curse bug... Even legendary pets like wurmtongue are effected by curse, what gives SNS a right to avoid curse?

Wurmtongue must be an exception. Singe's DoT burn does not reflect on curse either. I've tested numerous pets and they do not reflect on curse.

[Remember Me]

Do you have stats on how many players play CTF at a given time? The only stats I see are tournament sign ins. Those do not go over 100 players.

If a tank chooses to remain in a pool, that is his own fault. I have had to fight against SnS too. Being smart about the pet and predicted when the AA will be dropped are key tactics to avoiding death at the hands of this pet. Do not put yourself in a vulnerable situation and you will not die. Simple, right?

A non-crit aimed shot does 1.4k damage. SnS does not top this so please do not exaggerate.

Developers have stated numerous times that if they found anything wrong with this pet, they would make posts updating players on their plans for the pet.

It is more than easy to pull a tank into a pool, gale a tank into a pool, stun a tank in a pool, terrify a tank in a pool, charged auto attack into a pool, so your argument is invalid. Its not the tanks fault, ofc they don't won a stay in a pool....

[Ravager]

I just want to know if having a pet that literally does more damage than a player and heals more than a player is reasonable.

If you don't have max gear (ring+myth/arc weapon) SNS does more DMG than the player.

Also, as a tank with SNS u know that you do less dmg than your pet, is that reasonable and fair for the majority of players to have to constantly deal with? I think not.

How are we going to ever upgrade from the old Samael pet then? We have to start somewhere. Next upgrade all pets post-Samael.

Pre-Sns Buff, the pet was constantly shelved in my stable.

[Remember Me]

Wurmtongue must be an exception. Singe's DoT burn does not reflect on curse either. I've tested numerous pets and they do not reflect on curse.

Could you actually provide video proof or something, all your post are biased in support for SNS.

[Remember Me]

How are we going to ever upgrade from the old Samael pet then? We have to start somewhere. Next upgrade all pets post-Samael.

Pre-Sns Buff, the pet was constantly shelved in my stable.

As I usually decide my teams setup, I want my tanks to go with singe not Samael.

For tank I believe singe is better than Samael because of the party buff.

Like I said earlier, yes it is time for Samael to move on but SNS is not the answer, you still haven't answered the questions I asked you in my previous posts.

[Bless]

Do you have stats on how many players play CTF at a given time? The only stats I see are tournament sign ins. Those do not go over 100 players.

If a tank chooses to remain in a pool, that is his own fault. I have had to fight against SnS too. Being smart about the pet and predicting when the AA will be dropped are key tactics to avoiding death at the hands of this pet. Do not put yourself in a vulnerable situation and you will not die. Simple, right?

A non-crit aimed shot does 1.4k damage. SnS does not top this so please do not exaggerate.

Developers have stated numerous times that if they found anything wrong with this pet, they would make posts updating players on their plans for the pet.
I don't have specific data but devs can prove that there is a higher SnS : other players ratio in CTF than TDM and PvE.


Of course SnS does 1.4k in 2 seconds. One pool does 600-800 per tick. A tick is one second.

Aimed shot does 1.4k every 2 seconds. 1.4/2 = 700 [emoji33] Imagine 2-3 stacked pools.

Its not that easy to avoid pools if they're all over the place, which is true almost everytime in the narrow CTF hallways.

[Zeus]

Could you actually provide video proof or something, all your post are biased in support for SNS.

I do not have the time to upload a video. You can spectate if you are willing to come online.

[Remember Me]

I do not have the time to upload a video. You can spectate if you are willing to come online.

Or we can have a Dev confirm that pets do in fact reflect off of curse or the curse skill details would be misleading..

[Zeus]

Of course SnS does 1.4k in 2 seconds. One pool does 600-800 per tick. A tick is one second.

Aimed shot does 1.4k every 2 seconds. 1.4/2 = 700 [emoji33] Imagine 2-3 stacked pools.

Its not that easy to avoid pools if they're all over the place, which is true almost everytime in the narrow CTF hallways.

You are comparing a non-crit aimed shot with SnS damage while including the factor that SnS crits. That is hardly a fair comparison. When SnS does not crit, it will not do more damage than a non-critical aimed shot. Similarly, if we factor in aimed shot crit and SnS pool crit, the pools will not out damage an Aimed Shot. Furthermore, Aimed Shot's second hit is always higher than it's first so Aimed Shot always > SnS Pools.

If they did, I would be using Aimed Shot second and SnS pools first.

[Bless]

You are comparing a non-crit aimed shot with SnS damage while including the factor that SnS crits. That is hardly a fair comparison. When SnS does not crit, it will not do more damage than an aimed shot. Similarly, if we factor in aimed shot crit and SnS pool crit, the pools will not out damage an Aimed Shot.

If they did, I would be using Aimed Shot second and SnS pools first.
600-800 damage is the non-crit calculation. Your video shows it.

[Ravager]

As I usually decide my teams setup, I want my tanks to go with singe not Samael.

For tank I believe singe is better than Samael because of the party buff.

Like I said earlier, yes it is time for Samael to move on but SNS is not the answer, you still haven't answered the questions I asked you in my previous posts.

Ah. Missed the question. I don't think fair majority are dealing with it as there are only a handful of endgamers that use Sns. I don't think it'd be a major issue if my pet buffs suggestions passed. Nekro would be the counter pet. Currently Samael is not a direct counter.

I like the current state of Sns (both fighting against and using) in regards to your damage question earlier. It doesn't have a root/snare so I usually just horn of renew and walk out of the pools. Sometimes the tactic changes to kill the sns user first instead of kill the rogue first. Rogues run out of mana quicker without Samael in some cases.

Even if my suggestion for the singe buff were to pass, that would give the ability for the user to simply walk out of the pools in most cases.

Buffing the newer arcane pets is the way to go to keep everyone happy.

[Zeus]

600-800 damage is the non-crit calculation. Your video shows it.

Okay, it still does not prove that SnS deals more damage than an Aimed shot. I explained that this is because the second Aimed Shot always hits harder than the first. So, Aimed Shot will always outdamage SnS pools.

[Bless]

Okay, it still does not prove that SnS deals more damage than an Aimed shot. I explained that this is because the second Aimed Shot always hits harder than the first. So, Aimed Shot will always outdamage SnS pools.
By what? 100? 200 damage? Does aim shot hit multiple people? No sir.

Wow, I just realised, it has potential to do =< damage equivalent to 5 aimed shots.

[Zeus]

Ah. Missed the question. I don't think fair majority are dealing with it as there are only a handful of endgamers that use Sns. I don't think it'd be a major issue if my pet buffs suggestions passed. Nekro would be the counter pet. Currently Samael is not a direct counter.

I like the current state of Sns (both fighting against and using) in regards to your damage question earlier. It doesn't have a root/snare so I usually just horn of renew and walk out of the pools. Sometimes the tactic changes to kill the sns user first instead of kill the rogue first. Rogues run out of mana quicker without Samael in some cases.

Even if my suggestion for the singe buff were to pass, that would give the ability for the user to simply walk out of the pools in most cases.

Buffing the newer arcane pets is the way to go to keep everyone happy.

Correct.

Recently me and Ravager did an SnS clash. He had SnS used against him and he and his team did not appear to have any difficulty in surviving. Tactics are key, remember this folks!

[Zeus]

By what? 100? 200 damage?

No, the second hit of aimed shot is always considerably more. My first hit will be roughly 1.4k but the second non-crit hit can be 1.8-2k uncharged.

[Bless]

No, the second hit of aimed shot is always considerably more. My first hit will be roughly 1.4k but the second non-crit hit can be 1.8-2k uncharged.
Edited my post.

[Remember Me]

The fact that you are comparing aimedshot to a pets ability is just astounding as is proof that this pet needs revisiting by the devs.

On Singes description it says deals HEAVY damage when it does literally maybe half a second of a SNS pool?

Should the SNS description state that it does EXTREME damage when enemies are exposed to the pools.

[Remember Me]

On SNS's description it says "damaging pools". It doesn't say HEAVY damage like in Singe's description yet singe THE HEAVY DAMAGE pet, does less damage then " damaging" pet..

I'm kind of lost, and please don't give me the simple excuse that it's supposed to be OP due to its nature.. Where is the logic in that..

[Bless]

The fact that you are comparing aimedshot to a pets ability is just astounding as is proof that this pet needs revisiting by the devs.

On Singes description it says deals HEAVY damage when it does literally maybe half a second of a SNS pool?

Should the SNS description state that it does EXTREME damage when enemies are exposed to the pools.
Undermining 2 skills from ALL 3 classes? Thats crazy.

ONE SnS does damage and heal capable of greatly surpassing these skills:
Lighning, Clock, Mage heal, Aimed shot, noxious bolt, SSS, combat medic, HoR.

Not to mention it's a AOE pool. It can affect 5 people unlike skills like ice, lightning, aimed shot.


Sns = 8 skills; GG Mage (most saddeningly).

[Remember Me]

Undermining 2 skills from ALL 3 classes? Thats crazy.

ONE SnS does damage and heal capable of greatly surpassing these skills:
Lighning, Clock, Mage heal, Aimed shot, noxious bolt, SSS, combat medic, HoR.



Sns = 7 skills; GG Mage (most saddeningly).

Not to mention the heal pools heal more than 5x a mages heal when utilized to the max.

[Bless]

On SNS's description it says "damaging pools". It doesn't say HEAVY damage like in Singe's description yet singe THE HEAVY DAMAGE pet, does less damage then " damaging" pet..

I'm kind of lost, and please don't give me the simple excuse that it's supposed to be OP due to its nature.. Where is the logic in that..
#NerfPlease.

[Deadroth]

SnS Is LEADERBOARD pet. It needs to be badass and op, otherwise it wouldn't be an lb pet. That's all.
Stop playing pvp, or live with it.
Personally I think, those who have worked their butts off through this Ursoth Event deserved it.

_____________
Dead

[Remember Me]

SnS Is LEADERBOARD pet. It needs to be badass and op, otherwise it wouldn't be an lb pet. That's all.
Stop playing pvp, or live with it.
Personally I think, those who have worked their butts off through this Ursoth Event deserved it.

_____________
Dead

I have never seen you in a PvP room ever. I have played since season 1.

We are all talking from experience from the pet, not book knowledge...

[Serancha]

How are we going to ever upgrade from the old Samael pet then? We have to start somewhere. Next upgrade all pets post-Samael.

Pre-Sns Buff, the pet was constantly shelved in my stable.


Samael is the mythic armor of pets. So far past it's expiration date that it should be put down.

[Serancha]

Exactly, this pet makes some classes absolutely worthless... The only reason people use mages now are for mama refills. I mean the pets pools even have a curse bug... Even legendary pets like wurmtongue are effected by curse, what gives SNS a right to avoid curse?

Wurmtongue is epic and his dot is not affected by curse. Tested it personally.

[Remember Me]

Samael is the mythic armor of pets. So far past it's expiration date that it should be put down.

How so? Its just a pet which provides an extra stun. Not a extra player like SNS does.

[Anarchist]

You can make better pets than samael>>>>Nekro before it got nerfed
without making SnS's.

where is it writting that to surpass samael you have to completely ruin pvp balance.

Please adjust SnS thanks.

[Anarchist]

All of you SnS owners know this pet is way beyond the others, the gap is too much.
You also know that SnS can be nerfed while still keeping it OP and better than anything in your stable but you have too much interest to admit it and keep misleading devs.

Honestly why even take in feedbacks from a person you are considering if to balance his pet or not, dev/mod/tester?
he will obviously tell you the pet is not that great doesn't do this bla bla bla. GG.
Take feedbacks from who has to deal with the pet from the other side.

thank you.

[Serancha]

How so? Its just a pet which provides an extra stun. Not a extra player like SNS does.

Yes, Sam is just a stun pet. Never mind the stacking hp / mana regen and the fact his panic ignores immunity. But that's not the discussion.

[Deadroth]

I have never seen you in a PvP room ever. I have played since season 1.

We are all talking from experience from the pet, not book knowledge...

So... I haven't seen You as well. I am not pvper, but pver. I saw this pet in action, and In my opinion this pet is created to be op. No need to be an 'owner' or 'professor' to know that :)

[matanofx]

Yep, someone i never see in pvp telling me pvp balance is completely ruined, not to mention his past actions in this community absolutely deprive him of any importance (sorry but not really sorry when you stop making tons of secret alts and show who you are so i know if you pvp or not talk to me)

Others who are into pvp drama because their guild cant win clashes due to not enough of them participating in the elondrian LB event or maybe some did but decided to sell SnS, too bad.

Sorry but people who paid 120m for an egg deserve it to be as good as it is right now, and your biased opinions wont change that

In the near and far future i hope there will be new and better pets but for now it is what it is, you should have taken part in the LB event and no life it like many of the people i know did

I also hope a dev comes and reassures if SnS is indeed bugged or not to stop this nonesense discussion, i dont have SnS but many times i fight against people who do have it in ctf, even if sir CTF himself thinks only he knows what its like to fight SnS users..., and i think its okay for it to be the way it is untill something new comes.

Edit: I support the motion to give buffs to the arcane pets which followed sam such as whim/singe/nekro, they deserve a buff, sns does not deserve a nerf IMO

[Excuses]

Yes, sns need to be fixed.
It doesn't give kills to the user.
Please fix this. :)

[Remember Me]

Yes, Sam is just a stun pet. Never mind the stacking hp / mana regen and the fact his panic ignores immunity. But that's not the discussion.

The HP is nothing compared to the SNS pool, and the panic does have immunities lmfao. Otherwise you'd be stunned the entire time.

[Remember Me]

So... I haven't seen You as well. I am not pvper, but pver. I saw this pet in action, and In my opinion this pet is created to be op. No need to be an 'owner' or 'professor' to know that :)

That's exactly what I'm saying, thanks for supporting what I have been typing about in the last few threads.

[Anarchist]

Yep, someone i never see in pvp telling me pvp balance is completely ruined, not to mention his past actions in this community absolutely deprive him of any importance (sorry but not really sorry when you stop making tons of secret alts and show who you are so i know if you pvp or not talk to me)

Others who are into pvp drama because their guild cant win clashes due to not enough of them participating in the elondrian LB event or maybe some did but decided to sell SnS, too bad.

Sorry but people who paid 120m for an egg deserve it to be as good as it is right now, and your biased opinions wont change that

In the near and far future i hope there will be new and better pets but for now it is what it is, you should have taken part in the LB event and no life it like many of the people i know did

I also hope a dev comes and reassures if SnS is indeed bugged or not to stop this nonesense discussion, i dont have SnS but many times i fight against people who do have it in ctf, even if sir CTF himself thinks only he knows what its like to fight SnS users..., and i think its okay for it to be the way it is untill something new comes.

Edit: I support the motion to give buffs to the arcane pets which followed sam such as whim/singe/nekro, they deserve a buff, sns does not deserve a nerf IMO

Guessing the first line is dedicated to me my reply is mind your business for once.


Back on topic:
The experience i have fightin sns owners both in clash and 1vs 1 allows me to give a detailed feedback about the pet and thats what i am doing.
Sns is stronger than any other pet, strong enough to compete with a fullgeared toon and that according to me is enough to classify it as unbalanced. Pets should never outclass their owners.
If sns is this strong now what would the next carrot pet that lures players to run Lb look like.....



Fun fact is that even when/if the pet will get nerfed appropriately it would still be stronger than all the pets in the stable.

[Remember Me]

Guessing the first line is dedicated to me my reply is mind your business for once.


Back on topic:
The experience i have fightin sns owners both in clash and 1vs 1 allows me to give a detailed feedback about the pet and thats what i am doing.
Sns is stronger than any other pet, strong enough to compete with a fullgeared toon and that according to me is enough to classify it as unbalanced. Pets should never outclass their owners.
If sns is this strong now what would the next carrot pet that lures players to run Lb look like.....



Fun fact is that even when/if the pet will get nerfed appropriately it would still be stronger than all the pets in the stable.

It's not worth explaining anymore, they are all biased and all we need is a Dev to look over this pet again...

[Zeus]

The HP is nothing compared to the SNS pool, and the panic does have immunities lmfao. Otherwise you'd be stunned the entire time.


The panic does not have immunities, wormtongue does not have curse reflected either. Please stop posting false information. It detracts from facts and the vital information needed.

[Zeus]

It's not worth explaining anymore, they are all biased and all we need is a Dev to look over this pet again...

They looked over it not once, not twice, but three times now. Posting repeat threads after verdict has already been posted by developers will not do anything except cause potential flame wars.

[Zeus]

Shady and Surge:

- 300-400 heal per tick
- 300-450 damage per tick (including critical hits)
- pools stack
- pools do not grant kills
- passive attack is bugged so it does not grant the 100% bleed chance other than on first attack. Meaning, the bleed effect does not re-apply
- Curse does not apply to pools

* Pools do not grant kills
This was looked into and determined as an environmental effect which developers do not plan on changing. Thus, not granting kills will remain as a downside of SnS.

* Passive attack is bugged so it does not grant the 100% bleed chance other than on first attack. Meaning, the bleed effect does not re-apply
This has still yet to be fixed.

* Pools stacking
This was advertised on Remiem's video encouraging players to run for the leaderboard pet as it is an OP pet.

* Curse does not apply to pools
This is curse mechanics. It does not apply to any pet including wurmtongue.




Bless was just in a PvP room with me. They had a Shady & Surge, so did we. However, they did not even make a kill on us despite pools on both sides. Why? There are tactics to avoid the pools. If you play smart, you can avoid them. They are only OP if as a player, you run blindly into them or get yourself in scenarios were pools are more likely to land.

The tournament has shown that SnS does not provide a major advantage as most of the SnS teams were beaten. Heck, one or more was even beaten by a non SnS team!


Lastly, developer verdict on this has been shown multiple times:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?165608-S-amp-S-s-arcane-ability-(pvp)/page3&highlight=Shady+Surge+pools

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?176942-SnS-PVP/page4&highlight=Shady+Surge+pools

(SnS buff thread - will edit in link when I find)

Thus, this thread is redundant & already covers material that developers have already made an official statement on.

[Remember Me]

The panic does not have immunities, wormtongue does not have curse reflected either. Please stop posting false information. It detracts from facts and the vital information needed.

The panic does have immunities, you can't use 5 Samaels and stun ur opponent for 10 seconds in a row.

If you a stun an enemy they can not be stunned be ur teammate for a little bit of time, THERE IS A SHORT TIME OF IMMUNITY.

[Remember Me]

Shady and Surge:

- 300-400 heal per tick
- 300-450 damage per tick (including critical hits)
- pools stack
- pools do not grant kills
- passive attack is bugged so it does not grant the 100% bleed chance other than on first attack. Meaning, the bleed effect does not re-apply
- Curse does not apply to pools

* Pools do not grant kills
This was looked into and determined as an environmental effect which developers do not plan on changing. Thus, not granting kills will remain as a downside of SnS.

* Passive attack is bugged so it does not grant the 100% bleed chance other than on first attack. Meaning, the bleed effect does not re-apply
This has still yet to be fixed.

* Pools stacking
This was advertised on Remiem's video encouraging players to run for the leaderboard pet as it is an OP pet.

* Curse does not apply to pools
This is curse mechanics. It does not apply to any pet including wurmtongue.




Bless was just in a PvP room with me. They had a Shady & Surge, so did we. However, they did not even make a kill on us despite pools on both sides. Why? There are tactics to avoid the pools. If you play smart, you can avoid them. They are only OP if as a player, you run blindly into them or get yourself in scenarios were pools are more likely to land.

The tournament has shown that SnS does not provide a major advantage as most of the SnS teams were beaten. Heck, one or more was even beaten by a non SnS team!


Lastly, developer verdict on this has been shown multiple times:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?165608-S-amp-S-s-arcane-ability-(pvp)/page3&highlight=Shady+Surge+pools

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?176942-SnS-PVP/page4&highlight=Shady+Surge+pools

(SnS buff thread - will edit in link when I find)

Thus, this thread is redundant & already covers material that developers have already made an official statement on.

The problem is that immature players are using 3 or more SNS to beat a team saying that they don't have rings online. 3 or more causes extreme stacks and that is the biggest problem with SNS. The stacks, I would highly reccomend a Dev look at the stacked issue.

[Zeus]

The panic does have immunities, you can't use 5 Samaels and stun ur opponent for 10 seconds in a row.

If you a stun an enemy they can not be stunned be ur teammate for a little bit of time, THERE IS A SHORT TIME OF IMMUNITY.

Yes you can. The stuns cannot stack. If you are stunned and then stunned again, the stun duration simply resets. It does not stack, but the counter will reset. Thus, a character can be changed if they are timed perfectly to be stunned for 10 seconds in a row. That is why you can have back to back stuns from a Samael AA + passive.

[Zeus]

The problem is that immature players are using 3 or more SNS to beat a team saying that they don't have rings online. 3 or more causes extreme stacks and that is the biggest problem with SNS. The stacks, I would highly reccomend a Dev look at the stacked issue.

Players are immature because they use 3 SnS? Please do not insult players, judge their mentality, or anything that might seem remotely insulting to another player. Keep it on topic - thank you! It seems to me that these players found a counter to lack of rings. What is so wrong about that? Last time I checked - nothing. PvP was never meant to be an equally balanced environment. If it were, there would be separate tiers in PvP.

However, a solution could be this:
- An SnS pool can stack with only it's own pools. If there is another SnS present, it cannot stack with an existing SnS's AA. I think that's quite possible to code, will not result in a nerf of the pet individually, and will solve what you are complaining about.

[Anarchist]

There are more SnS owners on this thread than the rest of the forum so logically the rest of the forum is fine with the current state of the pet if they dont voice their opinions about it.

Good Game let the pet be.

[Instanthumor]

There are more SnS owners on this thread than the rest of the forum so logically the rest of the forum is fine with the current state of the pet if they dont voice their opinions about it.

Good Game let the pet be.

I'm fine with the current status of SnS, and I fight with/against it on a daily basis (coming from one who doesn't own SnS).

[Anarchist]

SnS owners and benefactors.

[Alhuntrazeck]

SnS is perfectly fine, imo. Its not like aimed shot in which the attack will 100% hit you - you have the choice to avoid the purple pools. There are only 3 of them, not too hard, is it?

From my experience of PvPing with SnS users, the max a side uses is 2 - partly because there are hardly many SnS users online at a given time, and partly because frankly, 5 SnSes leave the chatbox looking like this:

Team A: Go
Team B: Go
Team A: Gf
Team B: Lag

where team A has 3 or more SnSes. This is because the purple pools do not grant kills if your opponent dies on them; so a very obvious strategy would be to jump on them when you're going to die...

I also find it very hard to believe a tank dies in 2 seconds. I have clashed against Magnum's SnSes and frankly it isn't too hard. The pet was a LB exclusive reward, which people worked very very hard, spending lots of plat and gold, for. It isn't right or fair to deny them their reward.

[Anarchist]

Avoid the pools or die in them? Decide.
You talkin like you got all the time or even the chance to dodge the pet AA considering the diameter of the pools, their quantity and ctf tight corridors, when it has been proved on paper that just 1 pool can kill rogues/mages under 3 secs..time that drastically reduces if you add the damage from the pets owner.

In clashes where you are always under 1 movement impairment or another if the AA touches you its a guaranteed death.

Not all clashes are formed by people who always fight together and know what to do nearly all clashes are random, and the team with sns wins.

Also its very sweet and easy to talk when the stacked sns fights on your side. Nè?

If the Bulwark was GG for mages.
SnS is GG for everyone who doesnt own one

A dev should really take some time and look into this pet. Pets are helps, tools, istruments.
Helps should not guarantee victory but be a means to reach it IMO.
"Imo"cause i dont know how others play their mmorpgs.

End of discussion for me.

[Seoratrek]

I'm going to close this thread now since it has devolved into non-constructive discussion. I'll ask what the update is regarding this pet. Thanks!

[Remiem]

To update this, there are not currently any plans to change the stats of Shady & Surge. We will update you if that changes at any time. :)