Pally vs. Dual spec

[Anyrra]

So as I am approaching the 50 mark (46 currently), I've been debating whether to go pure pally (158 str, 95 int), or dual spec (127 str, 126 int or something of the like). So I was just looking for some insight from some more experienced players here. Of course, I could also stick to my pure int build I have now. Thanks.

[Royce]

I recommend the split stats even for a straight pally if you have the necessary boosting gear. As for split stats pally vs dual spec, well they're the same except a dual spec can transform into a weak half-hearted Int mage as well. Honestly I don't see the point of that. If you want to use a wand or staff, just go pure Int IMO. But I guess if you've only got one leveled mage and you're going to make a pally anyway, it's fine. Just don't expect the Int half of your dual spec to be particularly effective.

[Echelong]

I have been using dual spec for a while now and the best thing is you can pvp and beat bosses with str gear and farm with int gear. The bad thing about a pure pally build is that you use a lot of mana pots. I would recommend dual for the variety but you will also need to buy boost gear for your stats and it can be a bit expensive.

[Arterra]

I recommend the split stats even for a straight pally if you have the necessary boosting gear. As for split stats pally vs dual spec, well they're the same except a dual spec can transform into a weak half-hearted Int mage as well. Honestly I don't see the point of that. If you want to use a wand or staff, just go pure Int IMO. But I guess if you've only got one leveled mage and you're going to make a pally anyway, it's fine. Just don't expect the Int half of your dual spec to be particularly effective.

lol silly wabbit, its more than that!

it gives you the max int possible to still wield str gear, making the best pally possible. also, for bosses such as gurg, where you can just kite, or mynas, where you can snipe out of his aoe range, you can switch to a ranged keeper staff and quickly switch back to str to lead the party to the next boss.

[DawnInfinity]

I have an in between stat right now. More str than int but not 158 str.

[Ellyidol]

Agree with Arterra. A dual spec build doesn't mean that you need to be a half-hearted int mage, but just get the most int while being a pally.

Have to agree with Royce too though, if your going dual just to be an int mage, better go pure.

[Royce]

Like I said that's how I have my Pally built ;) All I'm saying is to have that much Str in a build, and then drop off your Str armor (the only reason a Mage should ever have Str) seems pointless to me. I do just fine against those bosses in my Str gear, and never feel a desire to switch to an underpowered Int mage just for a ranged weapon. Then again I also have a pure Int mage.

[Protank]

dual spec is the way to go. xD

[Royce]

Here's what dual spec is, and I'd love to see anyone deny this. It's an excellent pally build that can transform into the absolute worst imaginable Int Mage build (assuming you only consider builds that can equip top Int gear). My question is why even play the Int side? You have an awesome paladin, so do what a paladin does well. Why give up the only useful thing about having Str in your build (Str armor), and play a very poor Int Mage build? If the answer is "just because it's fun", then fine, but you have to be honest about what it is. An Int Mage with minimum Int an a ton of Str is just a terrible build ;)

[Lesrider]

Royce, you do more damage with your Mage side than pally side as a dual spec. So you switch to mage when you dint need the extra armor. The int gear does add to your nuking power, so if you don't need the extra armor for certain battles, you'll be more effective there as mage. And I find the Mage half to be great for clearing mobs, then switching to pally for a tough boss.

[Ellyidol]

Yup, its terrible. But at times i get lazy and want to avoid the tense moments of solo-ing with an int Mage. Have to admit, it gets really tough at times, especially vs aliens. :p

And just flexibility I guess. My favourite thing about an int mage is the keeper staff, so when it seems theres enough front liners, I like whipping mine out :p

[Royce]

Royce, you do more damage with your Mage side than pally side as a dual spec. So you switch to mage when you dint need the extra armor. The int gear does add to your nuking power, so if you don't need the extra armor for certain battles, you'll be more effective there as mage. And I find the Mage half to be great for clearing mobs, then switching to pally for a tough boss.

See but this argument means you just want to play Int Mage but are too scared to face bosses without Str gear, which seems kinda sad to me. You are playing literally the worst Int mage build possible (full Int is way more powerful and even Int/Dex would be better than Int/Str). When you wear your Int gear, you only get a slight damage boost, and are still way less powerful than any half decent Int Mage build. So you're saying it's worth playing a crappy mage build, just to be able to transform into a pally at bosses? Why, just go pure Int, do way more damage, and man up and fight bosses in your robes ;)

[Lesrider]

Royce, with your argument, no one should even bother being pally ever.
You can say the same argument -- why are you playing pally for the extra armor if you're sacrificing power.

Both pally and Mage have their weaknesses. By being dual, you're just taking rhe middle ground -- getting some of the benefits of both and the weaknesses of both. I would never have become a pally if i couldn't stay Mage part of the time. I don't want two separate mages, but I do like the survivability of a pally, especially if the rest of the team sucks -- at least I don't have to rely on a bear to protect me. But if there is a decent team, I can do more damage with my Mage side and not lose out.
Yeah, I guess if you have two separate ones it might not make sense to use a dual Mage. But I have one and plan to stick to one.

[Royce]

Royce, with your argument, no one should even bother being pally ever.
You can say the same argument -- why are you playing pally for the extra armor if you're sacrificing power.

Uh... For the extra armor...
Survivblilty is the only reason to play a pally. All I'm asking is for people to be honest about what dual spec is, and there is no doubt that an Int Mage build with min Int and the rest in Str is just a flat out poor build for an Int mage. If it's fun for you fine, but that's what it is...

[Lesrider]

What I'm saying, is, if you're using a pally in a situation wherethe extra armor is unnecessary, then it's just as much of a waste as using a Mage with extra strength when a full Mage would be more useful. Using the Mage half of a dual wield simply allows you to do more damage when you don't need the armor. I don't understand how it would make more sense to play pally in that situation. Would you use a pally to clear mobs that can be done faster with a Mage?

Again, you're saying you should only be pally if you're never going to play Mage -- but then you're losing out on some extra power you can have when the armor's not necessary.

[Royce]

My point is if you want massive damage for clearing mobs just make an Int Mage (a good one, without Str lol), and man up and fight bosses in your robes. It's not like that's hard to do. Honestly you don't gain a ton of killing power from switching to Int gear. Sure the keeper staff is nice, but your skill damage will only be marginally higher than a Pally who swtches to a 2-hander like the hammer for trash, and really you are doing far more damage with your skills anyway. You are still dancing around my main point here les. Are you in agreement that an Int Mage build with min Int and the rest in Str is just about the worst Int Mage build possible, or do you have some argument for that?

[Lesrider]

I agree an int/Str Mage is worse than a full int Mage (I only switched from int to dual after they gave power armor more ms). But I think playing pally all the time is even worse. I would never have become a pure pally. And since I wasn't going to have two separate chars, I find dual wield the best option.

I didn't say I can't survive as an int Mage -- I did so all he way through 50 and then some. But if I'm with a lousy group or no true tank, I want to be able to be a tank. But I just don't see the point in playing pally ALL the time.

[Riccits]

my mage is dual too... but i rarley switch to STR.. i did only @ OL, Shadow Caves and Fridge, but even there its not a MUST
the plus of armor is very good to have, and its fine to have the choice... but as INT-mage u dont have to tank and u rarley will need.

So its right, STR/INT for mage is tecnically the worst choice.

I would never choose a pally to clear mobs, with the glow stick i cant do also damage from far and Shadow is no mana-sucking.

PS: i never use keeper staff, he may dmg more then glow stick, but a mage, since nerf, kills with skills and not with weapon.

[Royce]

I agree an int/Str Mage is worse than a full int Mage (I only switched from int to dual after they gave power armor more ms). But I think playing pally all the time is even worse. I would never have become a pure pally. And since I wasn't going to have two separate chars, I find dual wield the best option.

I didn't say I can't survive as an int Mage -- I did so all he way through 50 and then some. But if I'm with a lousy group or no true tank, I want to be able to be a tank. But I just don't see the point in playing pally ALL the time.

Well then that's fine. If the build is fun for you and you want a pally but not all the time, by all means go dual. I do think many people with dual mages don't realize how crippled the Int side is vs a pure Int Mage because they only have the one mage to play, and it's most apparent when you play like that then switch to a real Int mage (the difference is pretty substantial and instantly noticeable). All I want is for people hyping dual builds to be honest about them. It's a compromise, not the best of both worlds. It's a weak Int Mage build that can also be pally. Too often I hear people talk about it like it's the same as a pure Int Mage but also with the ability to transform to pally, and that couldn't be further from the truth (okay maybe it could be further but it's still very far ;) ).

[Lesrider]

Lol Royce I think we've been arguing the same thing ;)
I agreed from the beginning that both pally and dual wield are compromises. But yes, for someone with only one Mage char, it gives you the chance to do both, by sacrificing some power.

And yes, it's fun :). I was finishing some ao3 quests with my Mage the other day, mostly PUGs and an occasional friend (like Ricci). It was nice to be able to clear with int but switch to pally for OL, since I knew nothing about the group (and there were some sub-50s). That way I could depend on myself to stay alive.

Pure int is great, especially with an experienced team. Maybe down the line I'll respec to full int again. But since my Mage is my main now, I would have to be convinced that I could thrive in all situations as full int before making that switch again. My guess is I'll be glad to have the pally side for new bosses.

[Riccits]

ok, then we all 3 agree ;)

for me it was more a try out hows playing with pally, but i want never miss my int-mage! and even as str/int-mage, is still powerfull enough for actuall maps.

yeah i dunno too what to do with my mage in future.. .will depend all of new maps...